Same. Walked away at 15, started a slow downward spiral, God planted the seed in me at 26. Finally returned and accepted Him at 32 year old and life is so much better now.
To be deceived as a child, well, shame on those who deceived you. Same here. But to deliberately return, after you’ve seen through it? And what about all of the ethical toxicity of Christian dogma like misogyny and homophobia? What about the cultic guilt tripping and the scape goating? What about the group think, the anti-scientific intellectual dishonesty? Just because I need to belong doesn’t mean I join a cult or even a religion. Just because I need meaning doesn’t lead me to believe in a God and just because I need a moral compass and ethical framework doesn’t mean that I have to sanction an ethical code that belonged to a society thousands of years old. That’s all suddenly OK now? Or is it conveniently forgotten?
That’s been my journey, too. Is the ‘The Prodigal Son’ the running theme in our lives, do you think? @lanassa91 too. I only started going back to church on Easter Sunday after so many coincidences or ‘synchronicities’ that have become impossible to ignore.
Tom Holland, you have been touched by Virgin Mary. I believe it is not arrogance to think in this way. I have experienced Her help not once. I pray for you. Greetings from Poland ❤
I'm reminded of my grandmother, born in 1914, who very much had a Sacramental Worldview (aka the "Catholic Imagination"). She had prayers for every occasion and everything was full of grace. This was formed by the traditional liturgy of her childhood, with all of the smells abd bells and special feast days & pious practices. I work in campus ministry at a public university and the students I meet who are experiencing conversions are moving toward liturgical traditions with deep symbolism and rituals. If the Church wants to be "relevant" in the Post-Enlightenment age, it needs to become old again.
It is a positive sign that younger generations seek deeper meaning in life, hopefully towards the Creator. Let's face it, we're not all equally deep in our search for Truth and Wisdom, yet I feel for those who are more curious and questioning and want more than fairly superficial stuff at a local Christian gathering. Christian symbolism, feast days / holidays, rituals do seem to have often lost their plot in the West, BUT not completely. To your anecdote, it is good that more and more youth are asking for the deeper. Personally, I'm a both/and, meaning that one of the things that drove people away from Smells & Bells was how boring and somber things were. Empty ritual. Hey, if congregants and especially the speakers/teachers/pastors/priests aren't embodying the Joy, Love, Creativity, Truth of God, then we're going to repeat this cycle again and again. I've been in very Protestant, very un-liturgical settings, and very liturgical ones, any Christian community, ANY, can be guilty of joylessness. Protestant, Catholic, even the Orthodox one I visited. Respect for God is one thing, but to make Him out to be a pseudo-distant, almost apathetic Deity is a crime! I never, never understood how people can be so lifeless at a worship service. Well, then again, I did come to understand why....
@@machtnichtsseimannThat just doesn't line up with the data. Church attendance dropped more the more they got rid of timeless liturgies and tried to modernise Don't mistake reverence for lifelessness..
You are right Justin. Emptying pews DOES NOT mean our faith, even in this country, UK, is dying. All it means is that Cof E, Methodist, etc etc IS NO LONGER preaching the full gospel and that is what people want. The faithful are still coming together as the body of Christ, but in different ways. Online, small house groups, other "buildings" where they can experience freely the Spirit of the Lord. There are beacons of light throughout this country.
You shouldn't flee from the institutional influence and power of the Anglican Church. You need to take it over and change it for the better. Running won't ever build anything meaningful.
Would you say the same about your own mother if she wanted to help you with something?..."mom, you're no different to me than any other person I know. Stop trying to help me." If so, who needs enemies when you can have such a feeling toward your mother! Even if you don't think she can intercede for Christians, it might be good to show the mother of our Lord a modicum of respect, as Elizabeth did.
I attend noon mass at a downtown church. Prior to the shutdown, there would be 20-25 people in attendance. The downtown never completely revived after the shutdown was over, and the building vacancy rate is now 30%. Even though the streets are a lot emptier now, there are 40-50 people at noon mass. This is one church, but I suspect that this is happening in a lot of other places.
Thank you all. God Bless you for this. I pray he richly use you all; you let your light shine bright. His grace ever overshadow you and yours. May you know his best.
No author has explained so much so well to me about history. No Christian or anyone else can come close to Tom Holland. To me, he is perfect, a child-like heart, more than most Christians I know. I hope he never changes in the slightest. And my name is "Thomas" as well, a proud doubter.
We are seeing a lot of growth in our local Quaker meeting. Young people are coming in and want to know what we believe. Some had tried evangelical churches and been put off by dogma, doctrines and their position on LGBTIQ issues. Four years of growth is a trend. In 2012 the local meeting had three members, this morning they had closer to 30.
I hope you aren't affirming transgenderism in impressionable youth in your religion. If you are please, learn about the absolute horrors that these preyed upon souls go through when they undergo medical/experimtal procedures.
Dun and Carol Richardson spent 15 years in the jungle tribe Sawi in Irian Jaya Indonesia. The Sawi were head hunters and cannibals. Don and Carol discovered a principle called redemptive analogy in their culture that pointed to Christ. By the time they left 15 years later, 70% of the tribe were Christians. In Don's second best-seller, _Eternity in Their Hearts hearts_, he found redemptive analogies in cultures around the world.
Love Tom Holland's careful iteration of the things that have come to him that have encouraged him about the reality of God in our lives, when we are looking to see ..... if He is real.
'The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.' - Werner Heisenberg
On cultural contingency, my sister and brother-in-law had a friend from India who said that 95% of Hinduism was compatible with Christianity. What Hinduism lacked was someone to forgive their sins
One last word for dearest Tom .... when reading the bible, with the Holy Spirit in your life, THAT is where you find everyday supernatural closeness with our supernatural God.
I had a long conversation today with an atheist friend. He replied to the saying. "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist," by saying, "I don't have enough arrogance to be a Christian." I say, go ahead and have the arrogance. God created the entire universe. Humanity, as far as we know. Is the masterpiece, and Jesus died for each of us.
You don’t needed faith in a god to wonder at the beauty of the universe. You don’t need the punitive legalism of a death cult to behave with moral integrity. Love, empathy, justice, joy and simple goodness, these are not the sole prerogative of the religiously faithful, they are qualities available to humans of all creeds and none.
@@markrichter2053God is the ideal. How can you possibly take aim at any of those qualities you list if you have no ideal? God ordered creation out of chaos, and still does to this moment. We are created beings being called to be vehicles of grace. Lord Jesus declared himself to be the Truth, Way and Life. He is our redeemer, our Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures of old by Isaiah. Prophesy can't be ignored. Far too much evidence exists of fulfilled prophecy in the Old & New Testaments.
@justinbrierley Loved your answer to the question from a church leader and you expanded on following a formula or just going with the heart. Just lovely and freeing for people who want to be part of the believing Church.
Tom's wonderful book 'Dominiion' gave me something I was desperate for as an eleven year old with a crisis of faith. That was 1961 and the Christ story was almost purely a religious story and I was thirsty for historical verification. Here was that history and I have gone on to listen to all the podcasts and You Tubes that he has featured in discussing Christian belief. This has proven spiritually rejuvenating but it has also validated my belief in Western Civilisation as inherently superior as a result. It is an argument I am not absolute about but I could mount a reasonable and rational argument to support my contention.
I find it also a weird coincidence that Tom Holland here had a miraculous recovery from his cancer similar to Jordan Peterson's wife both which influenced Tom and Peterson who are extremely popular figures in the pro Christian movement today
Very enjoyable conversation. Just a point I’d like to make… declining attendance at Church of England or other traditional type congregations does not equate to declining Church attendance overall. New converts are likely to attend more lively and relevant congregations in the Charismatic and non denominational movements.
Intelligent people, deep thinkers are turning to God, opening up to Christianity. Ignorant and shallow people by default are not interested in meaningful pursuits.
In my opinion decline in the boooring organized church is growing as well as distrust in government and medical science. However, true followers of Jesus are definitely growing and going to house churches for meetings, but going public and to the streets in their preaching with signs and wonders along with social justice.
@@cozzwozzleSome Catholic people are taught and believe her job is to bring people to Our Lord Jesus Christ. Others believe it is the Holy Spirit who motivates people to become believers. In any case, it dies not obligate a person to become Orthodox or Catholic. However, the person would be welcome in either faith tradition. Just advise your friend - don't make an idol of the heavenly intercessor. The goal is seeking Our Lord.
The gospel in itself has the power to impact society, culture the human heart. Christiandom is also aware of the rise of the one world religion which is taking root, I believe Christian’s have to speak the truth about God and Jesus and the gospel of hope, unwatered down in all its power
One thing that gives me confidence is the more sophisticated understanding of epistemology that is emerging. I think the Covid madness also primed the mind to recognize scientism. The new atheists are naive materialists. For me I had a pre evangelization stage when I was doing a thesis in law and philosophy that had me deep diving pragmatic philosophy and scientism. When I disabused myself of that epistemic prison there was much less barriers to recognizing that the fruits of Christianity was evidence of its truth and that was enough to get me started.
"Those who profess to be wise will be made to look like fools." Adam was of the world flesh, Jesus & his followers are of the spirit of Jerusalem, heaven above. Be in the world not of the world. "Do not eat from the tree of man's genealogy." "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree of man's genealogy." Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Communism "Even now the axe is put to the Abraham's family tree." Do not be unequally yoked. A house nation planet divided by the 12 Antichrist religious tribalism religious racism nations of the middle far east will never withstand these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars ecliptic Jesus held in his hand. "For what does it benefit mankind to gain the whole world after crossing the Sun's ecliptic resets it only to lose his soul?"
Very interesting discussion, thanks for sharing. It is from a mainly Protestant perspective though. In the Catholic Church there are also very interesting things starting to stir, just under the radar (a record number of adults and teenagers were baptised in France this Easter, for example). But here the reason is not (just) the supernatural, but rather orthodoxy. Latin Masses are full of young people and children (including lots of young men), even while the Novus Ordo churches continue to empty out. There seems to be a hunger among people to engage with something bigger than themselves, and a rejection of the post-Vatican II spirit of engaging with the secular world by trying to please it.
Census data England only (not UK), number of Christians: 2001: 35,251,244 (71.7% of total population) 2011: 31,479,876 (59.4%) 2021: 26,167,899 (46.3%) it has been rapidly decreasing, what the hell are you talking about?
@@solidflyer286 _"The Census Act 1920 makes it compulsory for everyone in England and Wales to take part in the census in accordance with the Order and Regulations. The Act makes answering the questions mandatory."_
I feel so similarly to Tom Holland. I find the Christian story quite compelling in how it shaped the world, but I think that there are too many reasons pointing to it not the ultimate reality of what is going on in our universe.
Wouldn't the discovery of our origins from a common ancestor have something to do with our increased concern for universal human rights? Recognising that we are scientifically all part of the same species?
Well all i can say is, if people are anything like me, then i think i know what is going on in the churches, and attendance being down, its the lack of trust in the church message now, as they seem to be turning away from the teachings of Christ, and are more interested in the Woke message. Yes im religious, i pray every day, but i dont trust the church now, so dont go.. That is, i feel, what is going on...
I think people have got sick of churches but they’re returning the Bible. I’m pretty disgusted by the CoE but I’m half way through the Bible and I’m at the point where I would consider myself a believer.
The problem is Jesus founds a Church in the Bible. It's the entire point of the religion. Find a better Church. Go to a TLM Catholic Service. Something Ancient, Transcendent, and Timeless. Just reading the Bible gives us Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, Arians, Marcionites, Gnosticism, and various other heresies. You have to have a Church, too.
I concur about the CofE, the churches in the UK aren't up to it...The independent churches are pretty spiritually dead (the ones i've been to)...I've yet to see any offering proper help for people with MHI...Indeed, mention them and their eyes kinda glaze over, like they're pretty clueless...Don't mention the absolutely disgusting inequalities in the UK, because nobody wants to hear it, yet some of them are living very comfortably indeed...This isn't Christianity...
I concur about the CofE and the independent churches are spiritually dead and dying...Very little to no understanding or help for MHI's, or other issues people are facing...Nothing on inequalities in society, yet some are living very comfortable lives...You could be forgiven for thinking the conservative party was in charge of the Church and not Christ...+++
I've read Tom Holland's 'Dominion, the making of the Western mind'; it helped me revision Christianity afresh, which is hard to do in this day and age. I was also intrigued by his final statement about the attitude of Christianity to the Old Testament, which is coming under increasing strain in light of Zionism and the Israel/Palestine conflict. The God of Christianity is the same as the Jewish God, He was a Jew after all. How do Christians reconcile growing anti-semitism with any kind of 'return' to Christianity?
Because Rabbinical Judaism isn't the same faith as Second-Temple Judaism. Jesus came to save the Jews first, then the Gentiles, and they largely rejected Him and killed Him, and have been grafted out of the tree. They can be grafted back in whenever they're willing to admit the Truth. Essentially, the Christian tradition is that the Church is the successor to Yahwehism, not Rabbinical Judaism, and the Church is the new Israel, not the secular state in West Asia. The only Christians that worship Jews are the Dispensationalists, which are a small group of Evangelicals that get lots of attention. The rest of us see them as following a false religion and heavily deceived. Much of that is called "anti-semitism," but it's not.
@@judithjohnson5055 nice try. That is not what Christians believe, albeit factually true. If I am sentenced to death, is it the accuser whoo falsely accused me or the executioner who is toblamefor my murder?
48:00 Discussing using psychedelics. I'm not against it but I do remember Carl Jung considering their use and then saying to his interlocutor, "Then again, beware of unearned wisdom."
What is a conversations? Yes, silent unseen nor seen can be heard from thy shared ears to HEAR. Scattered noises can be filtered = clarity, so clear as water! Students will say, given New ears to HEAR let them hear! Students shared "i" AM will say, come longing to LEARN unto all the wise and world views! What is an AIM?
A little LIGHT a CANDY as an offering to comfort the COMFORTER! Why? Angels who persevere and heard the WORD and HOSTS shared "i" AM will say, if the SON ABLE TO BE SATISFIED WITH THE CANDY OFFERED? WHY a candy is worth more than all these.....? Keep watch!
At the risk of boring you to death ("miracle stories" are perhaps boring? Telling them doesn't make them happen again...), what happened in 1985 made me (and my husband Jim) KNOW that consciousness exists outside us - is intrinsically bound up with us - listens to, follows us, is very WITH us and FOR us if we stick to the truth. Automatically? Always? Like some Alexa waiting for her name to be spoken? :-) I don't know. My husband's and my experience was preceded by a long conversation (2-3 hours) that culminated in the one miracle we have experienced together. Fittingly it can be explained away (as it involved a movement in nature). It really was for US, not the world, but we are part of the world. Hence I tell it. Our conversation had in it questions that would crop up out of the blue for an answer, the same question about "what was behind a door" in a dream Jim had had and couldn't remember, but after enough meanderings, did suddenly - questions of trust and whether one's partner was FOR one, or enjoyed doling out hurt - we were trying to determine and follow the ups and downs of this conversation we were in, a conversation which became heavy and fascinating: a world unto itself. A life landscape we were traveling through. Trying to SEE in. WHAT HAPPENED: It is said that "Miracles always happen through secondary causes." As my husband put it to me once, Look at the purported miracles of Jesus. He didn't snap his fingers and suddenly a Boeing 747 appeared. What actually happened in each case was that something that USED to be whole, that was MEANT to be whole, that had become corrupted (eyes, a limb, life itself), is restored. Miracles restore NATURE. That's "all." They don't violate nature. The one my husband and I experienced came VIA nature (rain), restoring the natural spirit we were born with - for the few seconds it lasted. I believe miracles happen only when they HAVE NO CHOICE but to happen. On the order of Meister Eckhart's saying: "I shall never pray that God give me himself. I shall pray that he make me pure, for if I am pure, God must give himself and dwell in me, because it is his peculiar nature to do so." My husband and I witnessed (were imbued by) a miracle in 1985, at 238 Grove Street, 2nd floor of the duplex where we lived in Waltham, MA - we were silent as it happened and my husband was the first to speak afterwards. "Paula - did you notice...those fingers of rain?" It was connected with a difficult admission and one word he spoke. In answer to my question - which got to the very nub of the matter we'd been discussing - in an increasingly deep talk,- as we lay there, side by side, looking at the ceiling, he brought forth the answer "Yes." This "Yes" was a humiliating admission to my ultimate question after this hours' long conversation: Was he lonely at Boston College? Later he told me that he answered WITH the truth "because it WAS the truth and for no other reason." Before answering Yes he had pondered "No." If he wouldn't have answered with the truth, the miracle wouldn't have happened. Immediately after the word "Yes" left his mouth, the RAIN which had been falling for hours - there was no wind - thin, straight & steady behind our heads, outside the bedroom window which was to the left of my head - we were lying in bed staring at the ceiling and talking the whole time - this rain upon Jim's "Yes" transformed into an intelligent, caring FINGER which BENT and gently TOUCHED the windowsill. With that touch, peace came into the room. Another FINGER of rain touched the windowsill. MORE grace came into the room. We didn't turn to look at the windowsill or each other. We just kept silently staring at the ceiling, absorbing in awe. When the THIRD finger of rain touched the windowsill, then withdrew, the room was replete with grace. I marveled in my mind, "THIS is what the Garden of Eden was like before the Fall..." It couldn't have been better. We bathed in perfection. For 15 seconds we were able to drop the heavy burden we didn't even realized we were carrying (the burden which makes me understand fully Jordan Peterson's saying, "Life is suffering."). In my marveling at existing within this peace and perfection, my burden of suffering lifted for these 10 or 15 long seconds...during those seconds I saw the EXTENT of the burden we each carry each day, without realizing it. I saw how we become inured, hardened, by bearing up under it. And we're alone. I saw that even the "BEST" life does not escape this burden. This miracle (manifested through a secondary cause: the rain) came because he TRUSTED his wife with the truth - the question he answered had to do with loneliness, and if he had chosen to protect his ego and lie ("Are you lonely at Boston College?"), to the ONE PERSON HE COULD TRUST, the one person who was there for him, he would have been lonely indeed. What I thought was a lesser substance than we (the rain, I assumed was secondary to us, a mere epiphenomenon and certainly not "ALIVE," just there to SERVE the earth and creatures for drink, doing its lifeless duty), could be a vehicle, something as "great" - perhaps greater than we, since it could communicate more than we knew. I felt through those fingers of rain how much the whole world cares for us - is watching and waiting for us to do right. Probably desperately, ha ha! As those fingers one by one touched the windowsill, I marveled - in shock - at the intelligence and care with which this rain was imbued, it was MADE of care and love. It loved what Jim had done. It rewarded him for his difficult feat (and me for my question?) showing us and particularly him in the most powerful way possible that THAT is the right direction. Trust your partner. Be vulnerable. Tell the truth. Life is with you. Life is FOR YOU. After silently experiencing the ~15 seconds of this perfection filling the room (it took 3 fingers of rain touching the windowsill one after the other to make it replete, to fill it completely), the miracle dissipated. Jim was the first to speak. He said, still gazing at the ceiling, as I was, "Paula, did you notice....those Fingers of Rain!?!"
Isn't it about "life"? True life and light, behind and beyond its cultural expression, is the true light that lights each person who comes into the world. The true light that can only be experienced and known through Jesus Christ, the exact representation and expression of the Father. It's beyond principle, it's reality. it's living, breathing, relational, physical, mental, spiritual encounter.
Although many times Christians have been leading anti slave movements etc, initially it’s mostly always the non conformist, many times not the religious, who would call out something that is wrong within the specific culture. Nowadays vegans tend to be nonconformist, non religious. Mostly now, Christians would heavily defend the use of animals. It was the same during apartheid in South Africa. The white ppl who in South Africa who initially saw apartheid as wrong were not the religious Afrikaners, it was the non conformist, the often non religious individuals who first break away from the norm. The same with slavery and women’s rights. Christians will lead the way after the initial battle of the minds, after it was more acceptable to more ppl to see the side of the previous group who were seen as “lesser than” the group they belong to.
“If you start with all the arguments to reason and put them front and centre, than I think you’re missing a trick. You’ve got to start with the heart…” and leave your brain at the door!!! 🤔🤨🙃🤣
Pardon? There seem to be window frames but with closed shutters where the gentleman are straining to see through the slits, the gaps around the edges of the shutters. Are they trying to see in, or is heaven going to shatter the frames that currently shape their inquiries?
I think they would se clearer if they read the Bible and asked the lord Himself about the future. We are living in a time when we can se how the scripture are about to be fulfilled. Jesus will come back in a time when most Christians have turned away from their faith. A time when people have turned their back to God so that madness increases. And because of that people will no longer follow the law given to us from God. And that will cause people to lose their love to others. He will come in a time when there are wars all over the world and Christians can lose their life for their faith in Jesus. We can se part of it already happening and the rest of it is on its way. And when Christians starts to ask not Christians about the future then that is also a sign that something is wrong in the body of Christ. If we wants to know we are to ask our Father in heaven.
The churches and communities that thrived within the boundaries of Christianity , have been deliberately deconstructed by professional atheists and academics alike , in order to create a space for themselves within the many sacred buildings and institutions that were created for the propagation of a society based upon long held traditions and customs . Once enticed away from their mother church , new spaces were then created for the now relatively prosperous communities to spend their time , such as retail parks , supermarkets and sports events ( all of which remain open upon the day normally kept aside for worship ) and unfortunately for them now , not knowing the subterfuge that had taken place , they flounder through the mundanity of their vacuous existence whilst the authors of such diatribe as exhibited here , wallow in the stench of their own cultural excrement . However be sure , god is watching and can truly see into the hearts of all humanity…
My commentary on the Middle East conflict is a reply to the title song from the movie Exodus: ExodAllO’Us "This land is ours; It is not mine to hoard, Entrusted to me by the LORD. My name is Abraham; God promised me the land That in me all nations of the earth be blessed. God gave me Isaac as the promised one, But Ishmael also was my son. When in the Virgin Birth, God sent his love to earth, Through Y’shua, YHWH gave us all his best. "The land was lost for seventy long years; Through pagan kings it was restored. No more idolatry or immorality-- Walls and temple grew to glorify the LORD. Four hundred years, and finally God spoke; His Word reached Jew and Greek and more-- Word of New Covenant, peace to the penitent, With an exodus from sin and death and war...."
Holland: It is possible and highly probable that Jesus healed you. After all you were humble enough to ask for help in the way you knew how.How about having a Jesus miracle from God? Considering Jesus dead wounded and died for sins and sickness. This is what Jesus desired to happen when he embraced the cross. Clearly we acknowledge the mother of Christ, but she did not die for our sins and sickness.
I just wish he wasn't so stuck in the Epicurean world view that NT Wright speaks and writes about so much. It is not one or the other. It's both and much, much more and beyond. Woke is NOT Christian. Like all evil it is a twisting (i.e. perversion) of a good. It is the opposite of Christianity because it offers no forgiveness and is centered on judgment and condemnation rather than love with forgiveness.
Just sharing an Orthodox perspective here, but we are taught that if you experience 'something' in prayer, assume that you are not worthy of receiving a vision or divine intervention etc. Because if it is of the devil, such humility is like a wrecking ball to him. And if it's of cheese ("chemicals, neurons and blind forces of nature" to use Tom's expression), nothing is lost. But if it's truly from God, in this case through His Mother, He will honour such humility and will see to it that the 'message' (for want of a better word), will indeed get through.
"Who is my mother my brothers? You are my mother my brothers my sisters" because he is was & will always be the son of God our father. Adam was of the world flesh, Jesus & his followers are of the spirit of Jerusalem, heaven above. Be in the world not of the world. "Do not eat from the tree of man's genealogy." "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree of man's genealogy." Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Communism "Even now the axe is put to the Abraham's family tree." Do not be unequally yoked. A house nation planet divided by the 12 Antichrist religious tribalism religious racism nations of the middle far east will never withstand these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars ecliptic Jesus held in his hand. "For what does it benefit mankind to gain the whole world after crossing the Sun's ecliptic resets it only to lose his soul?"
@@carlahmed5737That's brilliant. Like the quote from St. Moses the Black: "You fast, but Satan does not eat. You labor fervently, but Satan never sleeps. The only dimension with which you can outperform Satan is by acquiring humility, for Satan has no humility."
We all know this. Romans 1. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
I think it is very dangerous to glorify conservative Christian faith without realizing the harm and psycological damage it has done - and still does - to countless children. Every child and teenager should be encouraged to trust their own thoughts, be proud of who they are (including their sexuality) and be critical whenever they see or hear religious behaviour, ideas and claims that they don’t believe in. Our precious children are born with open minds free from fear. The Bible is filled with old mythological ideas and stories that we should treat and read as a heritage from a past when true knowledge about the human mind and body was primitive and many deseases were interpreted as punishment from god. By only picking the positive sides of religion, a false and dangerous perspective is created. The first couple of times I listened to Tom Holland, I thought he was both honest and intelligent. Unfortunately, I no longer think he is.
Everybody is relying on 'statistics' to determine how to think. Statistics don't keep up with what's happening on the ground. You know who sees the 'deeper and broader trends'? Older people who've been observing for a long time. We see the change. Plus, you all are missing what is happening outside of the 'male UA-camrs' influence. Women are shifting. Nancy Pearcey is bringing the data, if that's what floats yer boat.
“The very idea that a text should tell you what you should do is actually immoral. Because now you’re saying that whatever somebody writes has become moral for you. Morality should not be based on authority. It should be based on your empathy for the suffering of other human beings.” Dr Avalos
You do realise the irony in posting a written quotation by a supposed authority figure imploring us morally not to base our morality on what has been written down by authority figures?
Healed where the virgin appeared ?! Justin claims to be a “ Christian “ yet allows Tom to say he was healed by “ Mary”! Christianity isn’t surging but pagan beliefs mixed with Christianity.
Good statistics do not work that way. You cannot choose the one little statistic that you like after the questionnaires were submitted and tabulated, and pretend that you saw a trend. In fact, in Norway in 2011, the deaths by gun violence shot up by a factor of 5 or 10. Was that a trend? No. A single terrorist did the damage in a single massacre. Why was there a doubling of theists in the range from 18 to 24 in Norway? Perhaps the numbers are so darn low that the previous survey found one, and the new survey found two. Or perhaps there was a very small immigration of Muslims. Or maybe a single preacher was able to create a mini-return and that part of town happened to be in the survey. Or maybe there is something in the numbers. The truth is that these very small anomalies happen in every statistical study, and almost every time they disappear in the next survey because there was no there there.
Tom, get ye to a nunnery. lol. No, but to Mass anyway. RCIA awaits you. You owe Mary. I understand your concern about being arrogant that Mary would heal you, but you asked her to pray for you. To not honor her for the miraculous gift would be far more arrogant. You did a “silly” thing by asking her, but now you’re not willing to be silly enough to believe she did it on the back end because you’re not afraid anymore.
CHRISTIANITY RETURNING? Not according to 2 Thessalonians 1-3. An “apostate” church is not a “return”… sounds like “dogs eating their own vomit” (Prov. 26:11). Might want to look around and see what time we’re in.
Justin is making a mountain out of a molehill. A few more people taking more interest in Christianity is literally a drop in the ocean of people leaving Christianity
@@MeanBeanComedy ooo you tried to debate the wrong guy bud. sure the TLM might be packed, but so are the orthodox and conservative Presbyterians. Just because the smaller more conservative sects are receiving the conservative runoff from more liberal denominations doesn’t mean 1) that they’re the correct belief or 2) that their dissipation won’t eventually come also. For every 1 person becoming catholic there were about 6 leaving the church last I read. So you can quit coping or join us 😘
Time will tell. There are sociological and political processes and motivations that might point to resurgence of or coming closer to Christianity. I Europe, it's obviously driven by existential dread of rising numbers of immigrants (especially Muslims), which are fundamentally antithetical and different to many aspects of Western societies. In America, it relates to backlash towards what people term "woke" progressivism, and just general nihilism. Though it should be remembered that Christianity in America is still declining, but also still far more prevalent and salient than Europe's. In Latin America, there's almost wildfire spread of pentecostal & evangelical Christianity. But the Catholic church is definitely getting weaker, and liberalism/secularism sets the tone much as it does in Europe/America. Africa on the other hand is the wild card regarding the future of Christianity there. It seems to spread and entrench more than ever before. But what will be the substance of this in a century from now, is hard to tell. (I'd say the same thing about the spread of Christianity in China/Asia).
Adam was of the world flesh, Jesus & his followers are of the spirit of Jerusalem, heaven above. Be in the world not of the world. "Do not eat from the tree of man's genealogy." "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree of man's genealogy." Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Communism "Even now the axe is put to the Abraham's family tree." Do not be unequally yoked. A house nation planet divided by the 12 Antichrist religious tribalism religious racism nations of the middle far east will never withstand these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars ecliptic Jesus held in his hand. "For what does it benefit mankind to gain the whole world after crossing the Sun's ecliptic resets it only to lose his soul?"
Well the earthly mother of Jesus is like the rest of us Christians ans she has no power to heal. It is trough Jesus we can be healed. To pray to Mary that she should talk to Jesus has no bearing at all in the scripture. We are told to NOT speak to the dead. And she is dead in her flesh as much as Samuel was. This is forbidden in the scripture. So Tom you hallucinated that part. But Jesus clearly touched you and it is Him you are to thank.
Im disgusted by you saying Mary is just like you or me. She is the second eve, she is the new arc of the covenant which is Chest. She is the Mother of God(to deny this is to commit the heracy of Nestorianism, to deny the fact that Mary is the mother of God is to deny the hypostatic union)
@@Rocky-ur9mn That is not in the Bible. Mary was mother to the flesh Jesus/God was born in to. She was not the mother to God who lived in that flesh. To say she was the mother of God is to make her the Creater/God. It was not the flesh of Jesus that was God. If that was so the body of Jesus would not have been able to die.You must differ between God and the flesh Jesus wore. The flesh was to be our sacrifice for our sins, and to that flesh Mary was mother. To say Mary was mother to God is to say she is the creator of God and that is a very very serious sin. Mary was given the highest purpose any human has been given from our Lord. But she was merely a human, blessed by our Father in heaven. To say Mary is the mother of God is also to deny the trinity, because she then must have been lived before God.
@@Rocky-ur9mn Dude, Low-Church Protestants don't understand Christianity or any of the deeper meaning or symbolism to the religion and faith. They're very simple people. He's never going to get it. You're wasting your time. He has no idea what "New Eve" means, he doesn't know about the Queen of Heaven symbolism in Revelation, he doesn't know about the parallelisms between her and the Ark of the Covenant, etc. All he knows is out-of-context Bible verses and "personal relationship." That's it. Anything beyond that is lost on him. I'm just letting them be. Let Low-Church Evangelicalism slowly die out. 🤷🏼♂️
something cannot return which was never here. what most call Christianity never was. it was church religion If what Jesus Christ himself said "Strait is the gate narrow the way and FEW there are who find it" we will see this is the case but not even highly educated men like Holland can see this so i will ask a totally stupid question ( irony alert) is what Jesus said about what made made a christian relevant??
Jesus founded the Church. He said the gates of Hell would not prevail against it, and he described it as a physical, unified body. Protestants are a trip. 🙄🙄🙄
It may be true that many Christians will not go to heaven. Many in the Catholic church recognize that hell will be full of clergymen and layfolk but the deposit of faith has been handed down by broken individuals guided by the holy spirit. The lives of the saints, who most would see as an actual expression of Christs message, accessed their faith from the Church. Christ himself was a practicing Jew even though many Jewish leaders were hypocrites.
As Tom is talking about all the exciting things charismatic Christianity has to offer he’s astonishingly silent on the worrying toxicity of modern charismatic belief that has lost none of its racism, homophobia and sexism, not to mention toxic theologies like original sin and attitudes towards outsiders that damage social integrity. To espouse a return to religious beliefs or practices without addressing these dangers is irresponsible. Are we going to compromise years of moral development because it’s becoming trendy for middle class young people to embrace religion?
@@darmat6288 the doctrine of original sin itself is a toxic doctrine that’s pedalled to gain control over the vulnerable. It leads to addictive shame/confession cycles without helping a person come to terms with the dark side of their nature. There’s no transformative growth because the believer is taught they’re hopeless without Christ’s blood. The worst thing about this doctrine is when Christian parents and teachers tell small children that they’re intrinsically evil and subject to God’s wrath and have to be protected from an angry God by the blood of his tortured Son. That’s an evil doctrine and it traumatised my relationship with God as a kind Father. Teaching it to children is a form of religious child abuse and being brought up with this teaching can stunt psychological development.
Grew up with Christianity, walked away as a young adult, and have returned to the church as a more mature man and I'm so glad I did ✝️ Hallelujah
Same. Walked away at 15, started a slow downward spiral, God planted the seed in me at 26. Finally returned and accepted Him at 32 year old and life is so much better now.
@@Ianassa91 ✝️ Amen
@@Ianassa91 lol
To be deceived as a child, well, shame on those who deceived you. Same here. But to deliberately return, after you’ve seen through it? And what about all of the ethical toxicity of Christian dogma like misogyny and homophobia? What about the cultic guilt tripping and the scape goating? What about the group think, the anti-scientific intellectual dishonesty?
Just because I need to belong doesn’t mean I join a cult or even a religion. Just because I need meaning doesn’t lead me to believe in a God and just because I need a moral compass and ethical framework doesn’t mean that I have to sanction an ethical code that belonged to a society thousands of years old.
That’s all suddenly OK now? Or is it conveniently forgotten?
That’s been my journey, too. Is the ‘The Prodigal Son’ the running theme in our lives, do you think? @lanassa91 too. I only started going back to church on Easter Sunday after so many coincidences or ‘synchronicities’ that have become impossible to ignore.
African American soul singer Mahalia Jackson said, "When I sing the blues, I still have the blues. When I sing gospel, I have hope."
I’d rather have the blues than a false hope
I feel quite happy with the blues. Gospel is fun too.
one part of our brains things it's false.
Another part struggles with strange messages or hints of hope and love.
@@markrichter2053
Tom Holland, you have been touched by Virgin Mary. I believe it is not arrogance to think in this way. I have experienced Her help not once. I pray for you. Greetings from Poland ❤
I always love listening to Justin and Tom’s discussions.
I'm reminded of my grandmother, born in 1914, who very much had a Sacramental Worldview (aka the "Catholic Imagination"). She had prayers for every occasion and everything was full of grace. This was formed by the traditional liturgy of her childhood, with all of the smells abd bells and special feast days & pious practices. I work in campus ministry at a public university and the students I meet who are experiencing conversions are moving toward liturgical traditions with deep symbolism and rituals. If the Church wants to be "relevant" in the Post-Enlightenment age, it needs to become old again.
Excellent comments!
It is a positive sign that younger generations seek deeper meaning in life, hopefully towards the Creator. Let's face it, we're not all equally deep in our search for Truth and Wisdom, yet I feel for those who are more curious and questioning and want more than fairly superficial stuff at a local Christian gathering. Christian symbolism, feast days / holidays, rituals do seem to have often lost their plot in the West, BUT not completely. To your anecdote, it is good that more and more youth are asking for the deeper. Personally, I'm a both/and, meaning that one of the things that drove people away from Smells & Bells was how boring and somber things were. Empty ritual. Hey, if congregants and especially the speakers/teachers/pastors/priests aren't embodying the Joy, Love, Creativity, Truth of God, then we're going to repeat this cycle again and again. I've been in very Protestant, very un-liturgical settings, and very liturgical ones, any Christian community, ANY, can be guilty of joylessness. Protestant, Catholic, even the Orthodox one I visited. Respect for God is one thing, but to make Him out to be a pseudo-distant, almost apathetic Deity is a crime! I never, never understood how people can be so lifeless at a worship service. Well, then again, I did come to understand why....
Not just old--timeless!
@@machtnichtsseimannThat just doesn't line up with the data. Church attendance dropped more the more they got rid of timeless liturgies and tried to modernise
Don't mistake reverence for lifelessness..
As long as it has the moral and intellectual integrity to also face up to the toxic dimensions of faith traditions
To recognize that you are the humble recipient of an undeserved gift is the opposite of arrogance.
You are right Justin. Emptying pews DOES NOT mean our faith, even in this country, UK, is dying.
All it means is that Cof E, Methodist, etc etc IS NO LONGER preaching the full gospel and that is what people want. The faithful are still coming together as the body of Christ, but in different ways. Online, small house groups, other "buildings" where they can experience freely the Spirit of the Lord. There are beacons of light throughout this country.
You shouldn't flee from the institutional influence and power of the Anglican Church. You need to take it over and change it for the better. Running won't ever build anything meaningful.
It might also mean that religion is a toxic power playing exercise in mass self-deception whose ultimate trajectory is either ISIS or Trump,
If you mentioned that Mary story to most practicing Catholics, they'd have very little problem believing she helped intervene.
Why? She’s just an another teenager that God used to implement His will.
Would you say the same about your own mother if she wanted to help you with something?..."mom, you're no different to me than any other person I know. Stop trying to help me." If so, who needs enemies when you can have such a feeling toward your mother! Even if you don't think she can intercede for Christians, it might be good to show the mother of our Lord a modicum of respect, as Elizabeth did.
I think she interceded in his healing.
I attend noon mass at a downtown church. Prior to the shutdown, there would be 20-25 people in attendance. The downtown never completely revived after the shutdown was over, and the building vacancy rate is now 30%. Even though the streets are a lot emptier now, there are 40-50 people at noon mass. This is one church, but I suspect that this is happening in a lot of other places.
Thank you all. God Bless you for this. I pray he richly use you all; you let your light shine bright. His grace ever overshadow you and yours. May you know his best.
Tom Holland is spellbinding
I just started his book, Dominion, yesterday. He seems very interesting!
He looks bored… and I appreciate that honesty!
No he’s just well spoken and aducated.
Couldn't agree more..
He's a centrist dad.
No author has explained so much so well to me about history. No Christian or anyone else can come close to Tom Holland. To me, he is perfect, a child-like heart, more than most Christians I know. I hope he never changes in the slightest. And my name is "Thomas" as well, a proud doubter.
That is a selfish and loving wish. I hope he changes constantly for the better. And you too.
@@talisikid1618 No way, he’s perfect.
@@rontimus Wouldn't you be happy if he became a believing Christian?
@@judithjohnson5055 Christians can’t write books like he can. If he became a Christian, he would lose a super power
We are seeing a lot of growth in our local Quaker meeting. Young people are coming in and want to know what we believe. Some had tried evangelical churches and been put off by dogma, doctrines and their position on LGBTIQ issues. Four years of growth is a trend. In 2012 the local meeting had three members, this morning they had closer to 30.
Congratulations!
Because they're too lax on the gays, or because they believe what the Bible says?
I hope you aren't affirming transgenderism in impressionable youth in your religion. If you are please, learn about the absolute horrors that these preyed upon souls go through when they undergo medical/experimtal procedures.
Dun and Carol Richardson spent 15 years in the jungle tribe Sawi in Irian Jaya Indonesia. The Sawi were head hunters and cannibals. Don and Carol discovered a principle called redemptive analogy in their culture that pointed to Christ. By the time they left 15 years later, 70% of the tribe were Christians. In Don's second best-seller, _Eternity in Their Hearts hearts_, he found redemptive analogies in cultures around the world.
Love Tom Holland's careful iteration of the things that have come to him that have encouraged him about the reality of God in our lives, when we are looking to see ..... if He is real.
22:40 "The growth is in churches who take the supernatural seriously"
26:00 "The problem with Christianity is that it has been too successful."
'The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.' - Werner Heisenberg
Yes. Once you run out of options and get close to true nothingness(an empty glass) God is your last resort.
On cultural contingency, my sister and brother-in-law had a friend from India who said that 95% of Hinduism was compatible with Christianity. What Hinduism lacked was someone to forgive their sins
One last word for dearest Tom .... when reading the bible, with the Holy Spirit in your life, THAT is where you find everyday supernatural closeness with our supernatural God.
Keep up the good work Justin
I had a long conversation today with an atheist friend. He replied to the saying. "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist," by saying, "I don't have enough arrogance to be a Christian." I say, go ahead and have the arrogance. God created the entire universe. Humanity, as far as we know. Is the masterpiece, and Jesus died for each of us.
@@gregkirk1842Yeah, atheists seem to not even understand the concept of "God" to begin with, most of the time.
You don’t needed faith in a god to wonder at the beauty of the universe. You don’t need the punitive legalism of a death cult to behave with moral integrity.
Love, empathy, justice, joy and simple goodness, these are not the sole prerogative of the religiously faithful, they are qualities available to humans of all creeds and none.
@@markrichter2053prove it
@@markrichter2053God is the ideal. How can you possibly take aim at any of those qualities you list if you have no ideal? God ordered creation out of chaos, and still does to this moment. We are created beings being called to be vehicles of grace. Lord Jesus declared himself to be the Truth, Way and Life. He is our redeemer, our Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures of old by Isaiah. Prophesy can't be ignored. Far too much evidence exists of fulfilled prophecy in the Old & New Testaments.
@justinbrierley Loved your answer to the question from a church leader and you expanded on following a formula or just going with the heart. Just lovely and freeing for people who want to be part of the believing Church.
Tom's wonderful book 'Dominiion' gave me something I was desperate for as an eleven year old with a crisis of faith. That was 1961 and the Christ story was almost purely a religious story and I was thirsty for historical verification. Here was that history and I have gone on to listen to all the podcasts and You Tubes that he has featured in discussing Christian belief.
This has proven spiritually rejuvenating but it has also validated my belief in Western Civilisation as inherently superior as a result. It is an argument I am not absolute about but I could mount a reasonable and rational argument to support my contention.
I find it also a weird coincidence that Tom Holland here had a miraculous recovery from his cancer similar to Jordan Peterson's wife both which influenced Tom and Peterson who are extremely popular figures in the pro Christian movement today
That was my first thought as well. Healing is a persuasive miracle it turns out :)
Just because someone gets well doesn’t mean that a miracle has taken place
God-incidences
I think there as been a great education going in the religious things of the people we have a greater understanding of all things 🙏🏼🕊️❤️🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️
Definitely a bombshell and truthful last moment from Tom Holland, greeted with "Okay before the fatigue sets in… "
Churches have to major in what they have to offer... Brilliant argument.
David Berlinski's "The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions" - great book, and very funny
Thank you, will check this one. 😇
29:50 " I wanted the kind of excitement that a belief in the supernatural would give."
Glory to our most pure and Holy Mother the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary! ☦️☦️☦️
My father’s parents escaped Armenian Holocaust/genocide.
My mothers grandparents too
God does indeed have an awesome sense of humor.
I love that Tom holland and Nick Cave talk. That reference to their chat about his experience made my day.
Very enjoyable conversation. Just a point I’d like to make… declining attendance at Church of England or other traditional type congregations does not equate to declining Church attendance overall. New converts are likely to attend more lively and relevant congregations in the Charismatic and non denominational movements.
Intelligent people, deep thinkers are turning to God, opening up to Christianity. Ignorant and shallow people by default are not interested in meaningful pursuits.
In my opinion decline in the boooring organized church is growing as well as distrust in government and medical science. However, true followers of Jesus are definitely growing and going to house churches for meetings, but going public and to the streets in their preaching with signs and wonders along with social justice.
So if you're quote unquote Protestant and you meet the Virgin Mary, and she helps ya, what's a guy to do...?
(Asking for a friend)
repent deeply of trusting either a demonic apparition or a piece of wishful thinking
BEGOME.
Become Orthodox… haha
@@cozzwozzleSome Catholic people are taught and believe her job is to bring people to Our Lord Jesus Christ. Others believe it is the Holy Spirit who motivates people to become believers. In any case, it dies not obligate a person to become Orthodox or Catholic. However, the person would be welcome in either faith tradition. Just advise your friend - don't make an idol of the heavenly intercessor. The goal is seeking Our Lord.
excellent advice
The gospel in itself has the power to impact society, culture the human heart. Christiandom is also aware of the rise of the one world religion which is taking root, I believe Christian’s have to speak the truth about God and Jesus and the gospel of hope, unwatered down in all its power
One thing that gives me confidence is the more sophisticated understanding of epistemology that is emerging. I think the Covid madness also primed the mind to recognize scientism. The new atheists are naive materialists. For me I had a pre evangelization stage when I was doing a thesis in law and philosophy that had me deep diving pragmatic philosophy and scientism. When I disabused myself of that epistemic prison there was much less barriers to recognizing that the fruits of Christianity was evidence of its truth and that was enough to get me started.
Excellent to hear!
So encouraging
"Those who profess to be wise will be made to look like fools."
Adam was of the world flesh, Jesus & his followers are of the spirit of Jerusalem, heaven above. Be in the world not of the world.
"Do not eat from the tree of man's genealogy." "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree of man's genealogy." Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Communism
"Even now the axe is put to the Abraham's family tree."
Do not be unequally yoked. A house nation planet divided by the 12 Antichrist religious tribalism religious racism nations of the middle far east will never withstand these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars ecliptic Jesus held in his hand.
"For what does it benefit mankind to gain the whole world after crossing the Sun's ecliptic resets it only to lose his soul?"
I’ve tasted the rotten fruit of Christianity. It made me sick
Very interesting discussion, thanks for sharing. It is from a mainly Protestant perspective though. In the Catholic Church there are also very interesting things starting to stir, just under the radar (a record number of adults and teenagers were baptised in France this Easter, for example). But here the reason is not (just) the supernatural, but rather orthodoxy. Latin Masses are full of young people and children (including lots of young men), even while the Novus Ordo churches continue to empty out. There seems to be a hunger among people to engage with something bigger than themselves, and a rejection of the post-Vatican II spirit of engaging with the secular world by trying to please it.
Ya love to see it! (I'm one of em!)
Census data England only (not UK), number of Christians:
2001: 35,251,244 (71.7% of total population)
2011: 31,479,876 (59.4%)
2021: 26,167,899 (46.3%)
it has been rapidly decreasing, what the hell are you talking about?
Just listen carefully, and then you will understand what they are talking about.
Might those numbers have something to do with immigration, low birth rates and deaths of the native population?
I didn’t even fill in the census. I know lots of other people didn’t either
@@solidflyer286 _"The Census Act 1920 makes it compulsory for everyone in England and Wales to take part in the census in accordance with the Order and Regulations. The Act makes answering the questions mandatory."_
@@fixpontt yeah. But only if you’re in a property. I wasn’t.
Or you can break the law, people do that.
I feel so similarly to Tom Holland. I find the Christian story quite compelling in how it shaped the world, but I think that there are too many reasons pointing to it not the ultimate reality of what is going on in our universe.
Wouldn't the discovery of our origins from a common ancestor have something to do with our increased concern for universal human rights? Recognising that we are scientifically all part of the same species?
Nothing arrogant about thinking the Mother of God has visited you and done something for you. The “thin” place is for everyone.
I think it was Rude of Justin saying Tom 'schooled' AC... I felt really bad for him
Well all i can say is, if people are anything like me, then i think i know what is going on in the churches, and attendance being down, its the lack of trust in the church message now, as they seem to be turning away from the teachings of Christ, and are more interested in the Woke message. Yes im religious, i pray every day, but i dont trust the church now, so dont go.. That is, i feel, what is going on...
When the Spirit of God is involved, data becomes quite anecdotal, actually!
I think people have got sick of churches but they’re returning the Bible.
I’m pretty disgusted by the CoE but I’m half way through the Bible and I’m at the point where I would consider myself a believer.
Welcome and I hope you will always remain a broken beginner. This is my prayer for all of us who take Jesus seriously and wish to follow Him.
The problem is Jesus founds a Church in the Bible. It's the entire point of the religion. Find a better Church. Go to a TLM Catholic Service. Something Ancient, Transcendent, and Timeless.
Just reading the Bible gives us Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, Arians, Marcionites, Gnosticism, and various other heresies. You have to have a Church, too.
I concur about the CofE, the churches in the UK aren't up to it...The independent churches are pretty spiritually dead (the ones i've been to)...I've yet to see any offering proper help for people with MHI...Indeed, mention them and their eyes kinda glaze over, like they're pretty clueless...Don't mention the absolutely disgusting inequalities in the UK, because nobody wants to hear it, yet some of them are living very comfortably indeed...This isn't Christianity...
I concur about the CofE and the independent churches are spiritually dead and dying...Very little to no understanding or help for MHI's, or other issues people are facing...Nothing on inequalities in society, yet some are living very comfortable lives...You could be forgiven for thinking the conservative party was in charge of the Church and not Christ...+++
I agree, but the fascist youtube keep deleting my truth...+++
Very interesting and important new voice: Ayaan Hirsi Ali
I've read Tom Holland's 'Dominion, the making of the Western mind'; it helped me revision Christianity afresh, which is hard to do in this day and age. I was also intrigued by his final statement about the attitude of Christianity to the Old Testament, which is coming under increasing strain in light of Zionism and the Israel/Palestine conflict. The God of Christianity is the same as the Jewish God, He was a Jew after all. How do Christians reconcile growing anti-semitism with any kind of 'return' to Christianity?
Because Rabbinical Judaism isn't the same faith as Second-Temple Judaism. Jesus came to save the Jews first, then the Gentiles, and they largely rejected Him and killed Him, and have been grafted out of the tree. They can be grafted back in whenever they're willing to admit the Truth.
Essentially, the Christian tradition is that the Church is the successor to Yahwehism, not Rabbinical Judaism, and the Church is the new Israel, not the secular state in West Asia.
The only Christians that worship Jews are the Dispensationalists, which are a small group of Evangelicals that get lots of attention. The rest of us see them as following a false religion and heavily deceived. Much of that is called "anti-semitism," but it's not.
How do you reconcile the Jews who followed Christ and those who crucified Him? Which crowd was "anti-Semitic"?
@@olgakarpushina492 He was crusified by the Romans
@@judithjohnson5055 nice try. That is not what Christians believe, albeit factually true. If I am sentenced to death, is it the accuser whoo falsely accused me or the executioner who is toblamefor my murder?
@@MeanBeanComedyIslam is also false.
48:00 Discussing using psychedelics. I'm not against it but I do remember Carl Jung considering their use and then saying to his interlocutor, "Then again, beware of unearned wisdom."
Swedenborg explains everything very well with his book True Christianity religion.
new spiderman movie sounds weird
52:50. Tom Holland gives 3 predictions for the future.
Without God, there is no conscience.
What is a conversations? Yes, silent unseen nor seen can be heard from thy shared ears to HEAR. Scattered noises can be filtered = clarity, so clear as water! Students will say, given New ears to HEAR let them hear! Students shared "i" AM will say, come longing to LEARN unto all the wise and world views! What is an AIM?
Even with evil intent to aim none existence!
Aim come here in front and remind! LORD 1ST none existence in front of thee? Why say?
Let all the professors came before HIM to bring to remembrance!
A little LIGHT a CANDY as an offering to comfort the COMFORTER! Why? Angels who persevere and heard the WORD and HOSTS shared "i" AM will say, if the SON ABLE TO BE SATISFIED WITH THE CANDY OFFERED? WHY a candy is worth more than all these.....? Keep watch!
At the risk of boring you to death ("miracle stories" are perhaps boring? Telling them doesn't make them happen again...), what happened in 1985 made me (and my husband Jim) KNOW that consciousness exists outside us - is intrinsically bound up with us - listens to, follows us, is very WITH us and FOR us if we stick to the truth.
Automatically? Always? Like some Alexa waiting for her name to be spoken? :-) I don't know.
My husband's and my experience was preceded by a long conversation (2-3 hours) that culminated in the one miracle we have experienced together. Fittingly it can be explained away (as it involved a movement in nature). It really was for US, not the world, but we are part of the world. Hence I tell it.
Our conversation had in it questions that would crop up out of the blue for an answer, the same question about "what was behind a door" in a dream Jim had had and couldn't remember, but after enough meanderings, did suddenly - questions of trust and whether one's partner was FOR one, or enjoyed doling out hurt - we were trying to determine and follow the ups and downs of this conversation we were in, a conversation which became heavy and fascinating: a world unto itself. A life landscape we were traveling through. Trying to SEE in.
WHAT HAPPENED:
It is said that "Miracles always happen through secondary causes." As my husband put it to me once, Look at the purported miracles of Jesus. He didn't snap his fingers and suddenly a Boeing 747 appeared. What actually happened in each case was that something that USED to be whole, that was MEANT to be whole, that had become corrupted (eyes, a limb, life itself), is restored. Miracles restore NATURE. That's "all." They don't violate nature. The one my husband and I experienced came VIA nature (rain), restoring the natural spirit we were born with - for the few seconds it lasted. I believe miracles happen only when they HAVE NO CHOICE but to happen. On the order of Meister Eckhart's saying: "I shall never pray that God give me himself. I shall pray that he make me pure, for if I am pure, God must give himself and dwell in me, because it is his peculiar nature to do so."
My husband and I witnessed (were imbued by) a miracle in 1985, at 238 Grove Street, 2nd floor of the duplex where we lived in Waltham, MA - we were silent as it happened and my husband was the first to speak afterwards. "Paula - did you notice...those fingers of rain?" It was connected with a difficult admission and one word he spoke. In answer to my question - which got to the very nub of the matter we'd been discussing - in an increasingly deep talk,- as we lay there, side by side, looking at the ceiling, he brought forth the answer "Yes."
This "Yes" was a humiliating admission to my ultimate question after this hours' long conversation: Was he lonely at Boston College? Later he told me that he answered WITH the truth "because it WAS the truth and for no other reason." Before answering Yes he had pondered "No." If he wouldn't have answered with the truth, the miracle wouldn't have happened.
Immediately after the word "Yes" left his mouth, the RAIN which had been falling for hours - there was no wind - thin, straight & steady behind our heads, outside the bedroom window which was to the left of my head - we were lying in bed staring at the ceiling and talking the whole time - this rain upon Jim's "Yes" transformed into an intelligent, caring FINGER which BENT and gently TOUCHED the windowsill. With that touch, peace came into the room. Another FINGER of rain touched the windowsill. MORE grace came into the room. We didn't turn to look at the windowsill or each other. We just kept silently staring at the ceiling, absorbing in awe. When the THIRD finger of rain touched the windowsill, then withdrew, the room was replete with grace.
I marveled in my mind, "THIS is what the Garden of Eden was like before the Fall..." It couldn't have been better. We bathed in perfection. For 15 seconds we were able to drop the heavy burden we didn't even realized we were carrying (the burden which makes me understand fully Jordan Peterson's saying, "Life is suffering."). In my marveling at existing within this peace and perfection, my burden of suffering lifted for these 10 or 15 long seconds...during those seconds I saw the EXTENT of the burden we each carry each day, without realizing it. I saw how we become inured, hardened, by bearing up under it. And we're alone. I saw that even the "BEST" life does not escape this burden.
This miracle (manifested through a secondary cause: the rain) came because he TRUSTED his wife with the truth - the question he answered had to do with loneliness, and if he had chosen to protect his ego and lie ("Are you lonely at Boston College?"), to the ONE PERSON HE COULD TRUST, the one person who was there for him, he would have been lonely indeed.
What I thought was a lesser substance than we (the rain, I assumed was secondary to us, a mere epiphenomenon and certainly not "ALIVE," just there to SERVE the earth and creatures for drink, doing its lifeless duty), could be a vehicle, something as "great" - perhaps greater than we, since it could communicate more than we knew.
I felt through those fingers of rain how much the whole world cares for us - is watching and waiting for us to do right. Probably desperately, ha ha! As those fingers one by one touched the windowsill, I marveled - in shock - at the intelligence and care with which this rain was imbued, it was MADE of care and love. It loved what Jim had done. It rewarded him for his difficult feat (and me for my question?) showing us and particularly him in the most powerful way possible that THAT is the right direction. Trust your partner. Be vulnerable. Tell the truth. Life is with you. Life is FOR YOU.
After silently experiencing the ~15 seconds of this perfection filling the room (it took 3 fingers of rain touching the windowsill one after the other to make it replete, to fill it completely), the miracle dissipated. Jim was the first to speak. He said, still gazing at the ceiling, as I was, "Paula, did you notice....those Fingers of Rain!?!"
Isn't it about "life"? True life and light, behind and beyond its cultural expression, is the true light that lights each person who comes into the world. The true light that can only be experienced and known through Jesus Christ, the exact representation and expression of the Father. It's beyond principle, it's reality. it's living, breathing, relational, physical, mental, spiritual encounter.
Although many times Christians have been leading anti slave movements etc, initially it’s mostly always the non conformist, many times not the religious, who would call out something that is wrong within the specific culture.
Nowadays vegans tend to be nonconformist, non religious. Mostly now, Christians would heavily defend the use of animals. It was the same during apartheid in South Africa. The white ppl who in South Africa who initially saw apartheid as wrong were not the religious Afrikaners, it was the non conformist, the often non religious individuals who first break away from the norm.
The same with slavery and women’s rights. Christians will lead the way after the initial battle of the minds, after it was more acceptable to more ppl to see the side of the previous group who were seen as “lesser than” the group they belong to.
“If you start with all the arguments to reason and put them front and centre, than I think you’re missing a trick. You’ve got to start with the heart…” and leave your brain at the door!!! 🤔🤨🙃🤣
Wrong...Gross Conceptual Error....But I suspect you know that. Now go back to your bridge and sleep. ;-)
Pardon? There seem to be window frames but with closed shutters where the gentleman are straining to see through the slits, the gaps around the edges of the shutters. Are they trying to see in, or is heaven going to shatter the frames that currently shape their inquiries?
I think they would se clearer if they read the Bible and asked the lord Himself about the future. We are living in a time when we can se how the scripture are about to be fulfilled. Jesus will come back in a time when most Christians have turned away from their faith. A time when people have turned their back to God so that madness increases. And because of that people will no longer follow the law given to us from God. And that will cause people to lose their love to others. He will come in a time when there are wars all over the world and Christians can lose their life for their faith in Jesus. We can se part of it already happening and the rest of it is on its way. And when Christians starts to ask not Christians about the future then that is also a sign that something is wrong in the body of Christ. If we wants to know we are to ask our Father in heaven.
The churches and communities that thrived within the boundaries of Christianity , have been deliberately deconstructed by professional atheists and academics alike , in order to create a space for themselves within the many sacred buildings and institutions that were created for the propagation of a society based upon long held traditions and customs . Once enticed away from their mother church , new spaces were then created for the now relatively prosperous communities to spend their time , such as retail parks , supermarkets and sports events ( all of which remain open upon the day normally kept aside for worship ) and unfortunately for them now , not knowing the subterfuge that had taken place , they flounder through the mundanity of their vacuous existence whilst the authors of such diatribe as exhibited here , wallow in the stench of their own cultural excrement . However be sure , god is watching and can truly see into the hearts of all humanity…
Aye is it true though? Is there any good reason to think it’s true?
Great content, so…many….ads….
My commentary on the Middle East conflict is a reply to the title song from the movie Exodus:
ExodAllO’Us
"This land is ours;
It is not mine to hoard,
Entrusted to me by the LORD.
My name is Abraham;
God promised me the land
That in me all nations of the earth be blessed.
God gave me Isaac as the promised one,
But Ishmael also was my son.
When in the Virgin Birth,
God sent his love to earth,
Through Y’shua, YHWH gave us all his best.
"The land was lost for seventy long years;
Through pagan kings it was restored.
No more idolatry or immorality--
Walls and temple grew to glorify the LORD.
Four hundred years, and finally God spoke;
His Word reached Jew and Greek and more--
Word of New Covenant, peace to the penitent,
With an exodus from sin and death and war...."
Growing Christianity? Are you kidding? We're dropping like flies!!!😮
Great
Holland: It is possible and highly probable that Jesus healed you. After all you were humble enough to ask for help in the way you knew how.How about having a Jesus miracle from God? Considering Jesus dead wounded and died for sins and sickness. This is what Jesus desired to happen when he embraced the cross. Clearly we acknowledge the mother of Christ, but she did not die for our sins and sickness.
Pure superstition
I just wish he wasn't so stuck in the Epicurean world view that NT Wright speaks and writes about so much. It is not one or the other. It's both and much, much more and beyond.
Woke is NOT Christian. Like all evil it is a twisting (i.e. perversion) of a good. It is the opposite of Christianity because it offers no forgiveness and is centered on judgment and condemnation rather than love with forgiveness.
So true.
✝️🕯️🙏🏻💖🌷
IMO it's arrogant to sssume it's just material coincidence, rather than the intervention of the Blessed Mother. God is not limited by his creation.
Just sharing an Orthodox perspective here, but we are taught that if you experience 'something' in prayer, assume that you are not worthy of receiving a vision or divine intervention etc. Because if it is of the devil, such humility is like a wrecking ball to him. And if it's of cheese ("chemicals, neurons and blind forces of nature" to use Tom's expression), nothing is lost. But if it's truly from God, in this case through His Mother, He will honour such humility and will see to it that the 'message' (for want of a better word), will indeed get through.
"Who is my mother my brothers? You are my mother my brothers my sisters" because he is was & will always be the son of God our father.
Adam was of the world flesh, Jesus & his followers are of the spirit of Jerusalem, heaven above. Be in the world not of the world.
"Do not eat from the tree of man's genealogy." "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree of man's genealogy." Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Communism
"Even now the axe is put to the Abraham's family tree."
Do not be unequally yoked. A house nation planet divided by the 12 Antichrist religious tribalism religious racism nations of the middle far east will never withstand these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars ecliptic Jesus held in his hand.
"For what does it benefit mankind to gain the whole world after crossing the Sun's ecliptic resets it only to lose his soul?"
@@GregoryJByrnePlease quit copy-pasting your out-of-context verses promoting Gnosticism.
@@carlahmed5737That's brilliant. Like the quote from St. Moses the Black:
"You fast, but Satan does not eat. You labor fervently, but Satan never sleeps. The only dimension with which you can outperform Satan is by acquiring humility, for Satan has no humility."
Young adults can’t even identify or recognize a Christmas Carol anymore 🥴
Read the word of God soak in it and let it’s wisdom speak to you
You don’t have to share an opinion when you don’t have one.
We all know this. Romans 1. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
I think it is very dangerous to glorify conservative Christian faith without realizing the harm and psycological damage it has done - and still does - to countless children. Every child and teenager should be encouraged to trust their own thoughts, be proud of who they are (including their sexuality) and be critical whenever they see or hear religious behaviour, ideas and claims that they don’t believe in. Our precious children are born with open minds free from fear. The Bible is filled with old mythological ideas and stories that we should treat and read as a heritage from a past when true knowledge about the human mind and body was primitive and many deseases were interpreted as punishment from god. By only picking the positive sides of religion, a false and dangerous perspective is created. The first couple of times I listened to Tom Holland, I thought he was both honest and intelligent. Unfortunately, I no longer think he is.
Everybody is relying on 'statistics' to determine how to think. Statistics don't keep up with what's happening on the ground. You know who sees the 'deeper and broader trends'? Older people who've been observing for a long time. We see the change. Plus, you all are missing what is happening outside of the 'male UA-camrs' influence. Women are shifting. Nancy Pearcey is bringing the data, if that's what floats yer boat.
24:40 this must include boredom of Atheism too
28:48 ends up with the story of Tom Holland's cancer
“The very idea that a text should tell you what you should do is actually immoral. Because now you’re saying that whatever somebody writes has become moral for you. Morality should not be based on authority. It should be based on your empathy for the suffering of other human beings.”
Dr Avalos
You do realise the irony in posting a written quotation by a supposed authority figure imploring us morally not to base our morality on what has been written down by authority figures?
Healed where the virgin appeared ?! Justin claims to be a “ Christian “ yet allows Tom to say he was healed by “ Mary”! Christianity isn’t surging but pagan beliefs mixed with Christianity.
Good statistics do not work that way. You cannot choose the one little statistic that you like after the questionnaires were submitted and tabulated, and pretend that you saw a trend. In fact, in Norway in 2011, the deaths by gun violence shot up by a factor of 5 or 10. Was that a trend? No. A single terrorist did the damage in a single massacre.
Why was there a doubling of theists in the range from 18 to 24 in Norway? Perhaps the numbers are so darn low that the previous survey found one, and the new survey found two. Or perhaps there was a very small immigration of Muslims. Or maybe a single preacher was able to create a mini-return and that part of town happened to be in the survey. Or maybe there is something in the numbers. The truth is that these very small anomalies happen in every statistical study, and almost every time they disappear in the next survey because there was no there there.
MLK wasn't even a Christian...
He didn't even believe in Christ! He said He wasn't God and didn't resurrect! Lame!
ok holland is just giving a way for the churches to actually speak to people, churches, why the f aren't none of you writing this down?
🇬🇧❤️🇮🇱
No
🌚☄️❤️💫
Tom, get ye to a nunnery. lol. No, but to Mass anyway. RCIA awaits you. You owe Mary.
I understand your concern about being arrogant that Mary would heal you, but you asked her to pray for you. To not honor her for the miraculous gift would be far more arrogant. You did a “silly” thing by asking her, but now you’re not willing to be silly enough to believe she did it on the back end because you’re not afraid anymore.
Cherry picking history to force a square peg in a round hole
CHRISTIANITY RETURNING? Not according to 2 Thessalonians 1-3. An “apostate” church is not a “return”… sounds like “dogs eating their own vomit” (Prov. 26:11). Might want to look around and see what time we’re in.
It's returning. Premills coping on the daily.
Justin is making a mountain out of a molehill. A few more people taking more interest in Christianity is literally a drop in the ocean of people leaving Christianity
Nope. It's happening. TLM Catholic Services are packed nowadays. You can keep coping or join in.
@@MeanBeanComedy ooo you tried to debate the wrong guy bud. sure the TLM might be packed, but so are the orthodox and conservative Presbyterians. Just because the smaller more conservative sects are receiving the conservative runoff from more liberal denominations doesn’t mean 1) that they’re the correct belief or 2) that their dissipation won’t eventually come also. For every 1 person becoming catholic there were about 6 leaving the church last I read. So you can quit coping or join us 😘
Time will tell.
There are sociological and political processes and motivations that might point to resurgence of or coming closer to Christianity.
I Europe, it's obviously driven by existential dread of rising numbers of immigrants (especially Muslims), which are fundamentally antithetical and different to many aspects of Western societies.
In America, it relates to backlash towards what people term "woke" progressivism, and just general nihilism. Though it should be remembered that Christianity in America is still declining, but also still far more prevalent and salient than Europe's.
In Latin America, there's almost wildfire spread of pentecostal & evangelical Christianity. But the Catholic church is definitely getting weaker, and liberalism/secularism sets the tone much as it does in Europe/America.
Africa on the other hand is the wild card regarding the future of Christianity there. It seems to spread and entrench more than ever before.
But what will be the substance of this in a century from now, is hard to tell. (I'd say the same thing about the spread of Christianity in China/Asia).
Adam was of the world flesh, Jesus & his followers are of the spirit of Jerusalem, heaven above. Be in the world not of the world.
"Do not eat from the tree of man's genealogy." "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree of man's genealogy." Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Communism
"Even now the axe is put to the Abraham's family tree."
Do not be unequally yoked. A house nation planet divided by the 12 Antichrist religious tribalism religious racism nations of the middle far east will never withstand these the birthing pains of this the millennium of climate change end times due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars ecliptic Jesus held in his hand.
"For what does it benefit mankind to gain the whole world after crossing the Sun's ecliptic resets it only to lose his soul?"
Well the earthly mother of Jesus is like the rest of us Christians ans she has no power to heal. It is trough Jesus we can be healed. To pray to Mary that she should talk to Jesus has no bearing at all in the scripture. We are told to NOT speak to the dead. And she is dead in her flesh as much as Samuel was. This is forbidden in the scripture. So Tom you hallucinated that part. But Jesus clearly touched you and it is Him you are to thank.
Ave Maria
Im disgusted by you saying Mary is just like you or me. She is the second eve, she is the new arc of the covenant which is Chest. She is the Mother of God(to deny this is to commit the heracy of Nestorianism, to deny the fact that Mary is the mother of God is to deny the hypostatic union)
@@Rocky-ur9mn That is not in the Bible. Mary was mother to the flesh Jesus/God was born in to. She was not the mother to God who lived in that flesh. To say she was the mother of God is to make her the Creater/God. It was not the flesh of Jesus that was God. If that was so the body of Jesus would not have been able to die.You must differ between God and the flesh Jesus wore. The flesh was to be our sacrifice for our sins, and to that flesh Mary was mother. To say Mary was mother to God is to say she is the creator of God and that is a very very serious sin. Mary was given the highest purpose any human has been given from our Lord. But she was merely a human, blessed by our Father in heaven. To say Mary is the mother of God is also to deny the trinity, because she then must have been lived before God.
@@Rocky-ur9mn Dude, Low-Church Protestants don't understand Christianity or any of the deeper meaning or symbolism to the religion and faith. They're very simple people. He's never going to get it. You're wasting your time. He has no idea what "New Eve" means, he doesn't know about the Queen of Heaven symbolism in Revelation, he doesn't know about the parallelisms between her and the Ark of the Covenant, etc.
All he knows is out-of-context Bible verses and "personal relationship." That's it. Anything beyond that is lost on him. I'm just letting them be. Let Low-Church Evangelicalism slowly die out. 🤷🏼♂️
@@TheGudsdotterYou are committing the heresy of Nestorianism.
something cannot return which was never here.
what most call Christianity never was. it was church religion
If what Jesus Christ himself said "Strait is the gate narrow the way and FEW there are who find it" we will see this is the case
but not even highly educated men like Holland can see this
so i will ask a totally stupid question ( irony alert) is what Jesus said about what made made a christian relevant??
Jesus founded the Church. He said the gates of Hell would not prevail against it, and he described it as a physical, unified body.
Protestants are a trip. 🙄🙄🙄
It may be true that many Christians will not go to heaven. Many in the Catholic church recognize that hell will be full of clergymen and layfolk but the deposit of faith has been handed down by broken individuals guided by the holy spirit. The lives of the saints, who most would see as an actual expression of Christs message, accessed their faith from the Church. Christ himself was a practicing Jew even though many Jewish leaders were hypocrites.
As Tom is talking about all the exciting things charismatic Christianity has to offer he’s astonishingly silent on the worrying toxicity of modern charismatic belief that has lost none of its racism, homophobia and sexism, not to mention toxic theologies like original sin and attitudes towards outsiders that damage social integrity.
To espouse a return to religious beliefs or practices without addressing these dangers is irresponsible.
Are we going to compromise years of moral development because it’s becoming trendy for middle class young people to embrace religion?
Original sin, the toxicity of sin is scriptural. Hate toward a person or people is not. However compromise with sin isn’t either.
Interesting that the rigidity of Islam toward homosexuality and women isn’t criticized.
Original Sin is beautiful
@@paulgiggs99 😱
@@darmat6288 the doctrine of original sin itself is a toxic doctrine that’s pedalled to gain control over the vulnerable. It leads to addictive shame/confession cycles without helping a person come to terms with the dark side of their nature. There’s no transformative growth because the believer is taught they’re hopeless without Christ’s blood.
The worst thing about this doctrine is when Christian parents and teachers tell small children that they’re intrinsically evil and subject to God’s wrath and have to be protected from an angry God by the blood of his tortured Son. That’s an evil doctrine and it traumatised my relationship with God as a kind Father. Teaching it to children is a form of religious child abuse and being brought up with this teaching can stunt psychological development.
Nope. Don’t mumbo that jumbo.
😂😂😂😂😂
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.
You better thank that con man for all of western culture, and the betterment of the world.
This is a midwit take, please find God before it's too late.
@@ZoomerHistorianYoo never thought I'd find you here sup man
@@TryingToFollowChrist37 Yup. Talentless mouthy soda pop slurping TV watchers have, can and will babble any nonsense of attention they don't deserve.
@@jojolocoblue1548 His comment got axed. 😕 Was it good? Wild crossover!
Im allergic to Christianity.
You’ve possibly been “inoculated “ against it, i.e. been exposed to weakened or corrupted examples.
John Lennox?