Voidy brought up an interesting tidbit early on that many of us have brought up in the forums concerning Pyro ... the absolute lack of ANY safe spot whatsoever. While Pyro is a lawless system, if you land your ship at a major settlement run by, say, Citizens for Prosperity, then surely that outpost would have turrets and armed guards attacking anyone who dares turn hostile at THEIR settlement. Lawless doesn't means stupid. Lawless means run by gangs instead of the UEE. And like in real life, gangs should have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to people attacking others on THEIR territory without their consent. This is an important distinction. Space between those stations and outposts? Have at it. The gangs don't care. But until those major stations and settlements have either an armistice zone or a destroy anything shooting anything zone, then there will be absolutely no gameplay at those locations since no one can park their vehicle there without it getting immediately destroyed by another player. Repair missions? Gone. Cargo missions? Gone. Box missions? Gone. This is a serious problem.
No safe spaces. I absolutely agree the defenses need to be there, but if you aren't allied with the outpost, why would they defend you? And it wouldn't mean you can't be attacked, just that turrets might provide a deterrent. They won't determine a massive ship though so the issue will persist.
You are correct that a drug cartel would end you instantly if you came into their territory and started killing/robbing their customers, but it's irrelevant to the game. Real life criminal organizations, that are competent enough to hold territory against all opponents trying to take it from them, don't look or act like what CIG is making. They aren't basing any of it on realism. The only reason the POIs exist in Pyro is to serve as gathering points for pvp, and to attract other players to Pyro to become content. Pyro in lore is barren with nothing to attract any legitimate people or businesses, but if they kept it that way in game there would be no one there except pirates and no one for them to pirate. The trade commodities, the mining ores, the missions etc are only there so that lawful players have some reason to go to Pyro (kind of important for CIG's new system to have players in it) and the reason lawful players are needed in Pyro is because a lawless system isn't really lawless if there are no victims.
57:00 Ship to Ship Murder Hoboing is more prevalent than piracy, and THAT is the problem. If they were using the systems available to identify a worthy target I could understand it, but they're murder hobos. Pyro has just amplified this. It's given them a place to be. A place where they're allowed to murder hobo. What i'd like to see, while Pyro still being unlawful, tie rep into murder. If you murder someone with rep in the same faction as you, you lose rep in that faction. Ultimately, you should know who you're killing and have a reason to be doing so.
Yes but they can move freely for everywhere and that isn't how Pyro must work. if there are antagonistic factions, even grifters couldn't be safe everywhere, they probably will try to be friendly towards a faction to have a place where to land or place a base, but will be attacked outside.
Been having a loot of pvp players attack me even when I don’t even have anything. They only attack to kill. So been staying out of pyro until there is a system where what you do in pyro will have a consequence. For now it’s not. If you die as a pvper you respawn and start again. If you die as an pve player it’s the same, but depends on what they are doing. PvP people never risk losing anything in the end only time
I don't think consequence is the issue, as much as there really isn't a whole lot to do in Pyro right now. Or the missions are so broke that it creates the boredom where players want to go after that fresh fight.
And it's perfect this way. While I am 100% on board with harsh punishment in safer or even medium sec systems, null sec systems like Pyro should remain a free for all, mayhem infused PvP galore. I know, it's not everyone that like that. Then again, Why should Pyro be for everyone? Pyro is the system you come into expecting to get shot and hoping to survive. Not a cool PvE system with a pirate paint over it.
@hasearo7405 No PvE players will ever admit to that. To them, Stanton is a safe PvE system where we should be heavily punished if we attack them, and Pyro is a safe PvE system with a pirate theme where blood thirsty NPC pirates will come save them from PvP.
When the majority of your PvP is focused on preying on solo or weak players, that are trying to do non PvP activities, this is a recipe for a dead game. When you can lose hours of playtime by being killed once, you will be driving away all but the smallest, most dedicated player base. Which is fine for non-MMO games, but poison for MMOs that rely on casual gamers much more than the hardcore base.
Nonesense, it just drives away people that don't listen, read or think twice before taking action or going somewhere. People should stop complaining because they get ganked for their own ignorance.
One problem I see common in gaming is that the PvP won't stay in Pyro. Face it, there is always a fraction of the PvP community (sometimes a large fraction) that doesn't want to struggle against other players, they want to dominate them. They are the ones that will find the loopholes that allow them to inflict their version of PvP on a player that should be safe from everything but a fender-bender. That's the extreme version but in between the extremes is where the game will succeed or fail.
PvP is not meant to stay in Pyro that is why there will be other Jump points into Stanton for pirates and smugglers to use, I have to laugh when I hear people cry about PvP but when they get attacked the first thing they do is ask for help in chat and want others to come and PvP for them.
Depending on how you define griefing, a small group of trolls can cause a lot of damage with little effort and no consequences. Stanton PvE players have to burn much more time to get a decent return with the tangible risk of losing hours of effort to any random coward who is too scared of Pyro. And all a perp in Stanton gets for consequences is a slap on the wrist while they wait a few minutes for another free ship. Nothing and no one is hunting them down and PvE players get the short end of the stick. If you're not into masochism, play a better game.
@@4tonmike Stanton has GrimHex to begin with. But it's different than piracy in Microtech, or ArcCorp, or Hurston, or Orison that may be more a bit more safer. But PVP don't limits to Piracy, it also goes with Bounty Hunting and Mercenary jobs against pirates.
@@Haegemon I'm talking about PvP as Player vs Player, not fighting NPCs on contracts. It's fine when a Player Pirate tells me to pay up or lose your ship, but there's no incentive for players to choose to protect or defend industry players. Contracts and piracy are much easier, more fun, and pay better. Even at a 50/50 split, industry players don't make enough to make it worth a random PvP player's time. Especially now that contract rewards were increased and mining/salvage rates have dipped. Any "Pirating" that starts with destroying the salvager first is just for the lulz at someone else's expense. Better to leave the space pirate sim to the griefer apologists and play better games.
I love the question about the risk for the pirate, it's the same thought I have. There should be an equally steep cost to failing a raid as there is for the hauler getting pirated.
This is a tthing that gets addressed with death of a spaceman as well with ships blowing up having consequences. Currently we just get everything for free so obviously there's no risk unless you're hauling cargo you bought yourself (definitely the most dangerous profession currently).
Best gear in Pyro, like puting best military gear only to lut in Afganistan. Contested zones should give drugs, not gear and selling those should be most profitable in Stanton - grim Hex. Selling medical stuff, basic food etc from Stanton should be more profitable in Pyro.
These rewards are needed to get people to test just like mining and salvage where horribly easy to make money, keep in mind when crafting comes in it will be the best way to get these items in game and on a regular basis with no risk of perma-death.
I wish they'd left 4.0 til next year. They've completely wasted the potential for bringing new people to the game on the most important release They've ever had. If they had a stable build then they'd have an increase in support, insanely needed good press and existing players would literally be over the moon. The IGN vid basically advertises nothing that new players would understand and as usual, the comments are all full of people hating on it. They just don't do themselves any favours. Considering they have a insanely on point marketing team, they certainly know how to mess up great opportunities for the sake of a ship sale
I agree the IGN vid misses the mark, but I think CIG did the right thing by getting the patch to live before the holidays, during this break they will source so much useful information because people have the time to play it. Then CIG comes back and they can work to patch.
@mrch4nce while I do agree the development will speed up with the bug finding. I feel like people checking out the game for the first time after seing the promo vids will just log in and see it's broken. They have made money on the Guardian, but they've already lost the first impression on new backers and new money longer term
4.0 no longer is that important. The words of CR back in time made a 4.0 where no more wipes would happens and would be a much more important milestone. Now everything seems focused towards 1.0 and there it's more at stake.
@@whatasaverl6456 "people checking out the game for the first time after seing the promo vids will just log in and see it's broken". This is a constant. The promo vids have been cooler than reality for years.
@Haegemon yes ofcourse there have been way more alluring and better trailers for the game. I'm just saying out of all the patches, the absolutely eff this one up as the biggest milestone they've ever had to date. The potential to grow from this release was immense with the amount of coverage and attention this will get. When your advertising a product as the biggest and best its ever been, have it in good condition so people buy into it and let it grow
I think there's a difference between accepting "that some of the gameplay's not meant for you" and "well, you just can't access 60-80% of the planets simply because you don't find PvP appealing". A lot of people backed Star Citizen because of the PROMISE of private servers, because they believed that meant they wouldn't be potentially forced into PvP piracy (or ganking as it usually is, because let's be honest, very little of it is like Voidude is describing himself playing) no matter where they went. And as time has gone on and people have heard more and more they've basically been told "no, it's going to be PvP unless you stay in safe zones that we can't even guarantee stay safe because the systems don't exist or are broken". That's why people are upset about PvP and piracy. Because currently, with how, yes, the Internet works with people just out to ruin someone's day for kicks and the law system not working properly, the rather large section of Citizens who don't want PvP just see it as being forced on them both now and in the future.
He actually refers to his gameplay as ganking? He's not a pirate, then. He's a ganker who sometimes pirates. You can't have an honest discussion with someone like that.
After waiting in que and having several issues even starting, fly to pyro gate.. some shoots off a rocket at me before entering gate. Blow up. Then, finally, get to Pyro fly to a planet, someone chases me and shoots me down. If people are doing this to new players, they are only hurting the game. It takes too long to start playing the damn game to just get taken out in seconds.
With the new 4.0 patch, I will say the game/server has been running extremely smooth for me and my friends. No it’s not perfect. Definitely still has bugs that break it from time to time. But there might be more to it. Do you have decent pc hardware to play? I was still playing the game with a Ryzen 5 and a GTX 1070 not even 4 months ago. I’ve upgraded my setup finally after years of waiting & saving. I will say it makes a great difference on preference. First time I started seeing FPS above 35-45 frames anywhere for myself. And with the new patch and the start of server meshing, it’s been a dream running really smooth. Not perfect. Still get bad bugs. But noticeably better than before. I would say having good specs can make the difference on your experience with the game.
As a PVE player I would take harder tuned AI enemies and more spawned ships as long as these threats are grounded IN-UNIVERSE. I don’t want butter milk Bob and his gang of geriatrics ruining hours of gameplay while spamming immersion killing neck beard brain rot on chat destroying the limited game sessions that we have in our busy lives. You PvP players can have your servers and PvE players who value maximum immersion can have theirs. That way both types can be happy except for the griefer tools whose main gameplay focus is to ruin other people’s game play experiences. PVE SERVERS ARE ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY FOR STAR CITIZEN TO SUCCEED COMMERCIALLY. Otherwise it’s only destination will be FLOP CITY.
5:00 Sorry guys but what game have you playing for the last 12 years. This light release of 4.0 is exactly the same game I have been playing for at least the last 5 years.
43:50 Y'all want that challenge, but also don't want that challenge, because you're still going to take it regardless. It's like the streamers complaining about SBMM making them work too hard. They want the seals to club. If the game becomes a sweatfest, you'll stop playing just like those seals you're clubbing.
Enough has happened over the years that I don't know if SC will ever feel like a cool place again. For years, anywhere I go, if there's an opportunity to be attacked in the slightest, I'm on eggshells. Never feels fun or exciting, just feels like someone might be waiting to waste the hours I've put into whatever I'm doing. While there have been cool interactions, it's morphed into "are they going to shoot at me?" - and that's it. No desire for interaction, communication - nothing. Just avoidance. The dream/idea of the game seems great, but either the tools aren't there or people mainly don't use them for any kind of normal, immersive experience. Immersion works when everyone buys into the same idea. As long as there are those that will treat the space as just a game to be glitched and dominated, then there will always be people who can easily break/ruin the immersion for anyone else.
@@kristianhawk Yep. A low trust society slants the risk/reward balance. CIG probably was hoping to make a situation where PvP players are supposed to protect their Org mates against other PvP players, but that only works when those defenders are online. Planetside makes sense because it's strictly PvP and has clear teams, so you can play whenever you like. CIG should just probably split the game modes or just split the PvE into its own, single player/co-op game.
@@4tonmike This is why factions are necessary.. When you are a part of a faction it aligns a player with an in lore purpose for their actions. Right now killing another is simply a player choice that can be immersion breaking when their purpose is antithetical the point of the simulation. A lot these people want to hide behind some aspect of 'realism' but at the same time want to quote lawlessness as a reason to justify their actions. When in fact nothing about lawlessness eschews consequence, nor is it realistic.
@@4tonmike Yeah.. I think they will start with that event stuff going on. Citizens for Prosperity and Frontier Fighters will be choices for the good side..BTW Citizens for Prosperity are also in Pyro. This already should inform the PvP folks that there are good guys in Pyro that would not take kindly to murderhoboing.. its highly disruptive to people living in Pyro despite it being lawless, that is simply not going to be tolerated. When they do the Pyro event on the other side, Rough and Ready, Headhunters, or Xenothreat might be the options there. They said that players will have to make a choice that will important and have long term consequences. Basically sounds like you will be aligning yourself with a faction.
@@ephalanx1 Yes, Citizens of Prosperity are colonists who want to bring the UEE into the System. The other side are 2 sides in reality, Xenothreat the anti-alien anti-corporate militia, and the Crime Orgs with the Headhunters and Fire Rats mainly. These 2 groups fight against each other. Players will align with factions and Orgs probably will have to. It would be weird to have Orgs with Mercs and Council in the same boat. Rough & Ready are former Headhunters who wanted to quit active Crime and took over fuel refineries to become hotel keepers, so they are relatively neutral.
It seems that piracy, but also griefing, has no consequences in Pyro. Since I'm not interested in PVP I don't really have any interest in going there unless the rewards for a mission makes the risk worth it. If Pyro is just red Stanton with no rules then I'll stick to Stanton and hope all the "pirates" go have fun in Pyro.
You have the right mindset. Pyro is lawless and will eventually have consequence when rep work and the different gangs police there areas of commerce. Deep space is supposed to be dangerous and lawless. Risk and reward solar systems. Designed that way but it’s in preview status because missions and rep aren’t in fully. Pyro isn’t a vacation destination for the family. lol.
@@hamiltonbrown9591exactly. Lawless don’t mean you can do everything you like. The plan for reputation sounds great and fun. But it’s really missing. Can’t wait for that.
I don't mine PVP and Pirates, but if you're in an F8 and attacking a scavenger just to blow it up, you're an a-hole. If I'm in a F7, andromeda, or guardian feel free; but at least have some sportsman like conduct
awww.. so naive. Its adorable lmao. Its the internet bro; there's no such thing as "Sportsman like conduct"... expect to get ganked EVERYTIME, or win the fuckin' Darwin Award.
@@WigganNuG That's why it's broken. It's like saying "don't live in NYC if you don't wanna get mugged every day." Although like real life, people ARE speaking with their actions and not going to Pyro...which frankly is concerning CIG I'm sure since they spent so much to develop a very underutilized system now.
Think there is something to be said about why people play SC. Some crave adrenaline, others just want to unwind after the adrenaline of real life you know... I wish people would be more understanding of this. Way too many think that their way of enjoying the game is the standard and can't even start to comprehend the other. That said, CIG did it backwards again; solid reputation system should have been in before pyro...
Pyro is a lawless system. I’d suggest staying in Stanton if you are casual. Because even with Rep it’s going to be the same. It’s gang warfare in Pyro. Not really for casuals. But if you go learn how to run until more lawful solar systems get built. Pryo isn’t for everyone. Pirates felt the same way in Stanton. Like they didn’t belong because folks hated PVP. The risk reward aspect is a good thing. Gives choices.
@@hamiltonbrown9591 Lawless does not mean lack of consequences, BTW there is still law in the system, its just gang law which is not in place yet and what the OP means. The system wasn't meant as a hard divide between game play styles. Pirates represent less than 10% of the playerbase - I am sure they didn't make Pyro for just pirates. And no one said piracy didn't belong. The rep system brings consequence for murderhoboing. The system doesn't matter, this should be worked out for everyone's benefit. Games work best when you have defined rules, structure and 'laws'. Free for alls are not fun. You choose to color outside the lines, then you simply got a mess no one thinks looks good.
@@ephalanx1pyro is a high reward high risk system, its never meant to be a place for you to go to chill. Its nor just for pirates either! Pirates are there because people are there making loads of money due to the risk of being there
I don’t know voiDude. Good for him if he has the time to have a fully fleshed org working on piracy. Some of us have wife, kids, multiple jobs, and no time for this kind of luxury. It’s a miracle when I have 2h per week to mine and haul. I think CiG has a duty to limit piracy.
If you only have two hours, weigh your options. do you want to haul in Pyro, a system that has little to no security for a player, or do you do it in Stanton where it is now safer. your much less likely to get pirated in Stanton now all of that sort of gameplay is in Pyro?
Yep, this has been a rude awakening for me but it seems what most PvP people want to do. People will say "I love being actually pirated!" (versus just be seal clubbed). But the third or fourth time of you losing hours of your time mining/salvaging/etc. to a pirate taking it all away, you are just going to quit. I'm not spending another hour trying to hire an escort, who might just rob me themselves. I don't play games to be a game loop for other players. There are too many great games out there to play instead.
@@LT_Dante Thats the thing with Orgs though. the more people you have the more people you get with the time to play longer. Personally im looking forward to Org based gameplay, as a member of a decent sized org i want to be able to chip in and help the org by hauling or gathering materials so they can build bases etc. and on the smaller scale myself and my girlfriend are going to set up a small farm outside the Orgs perimiter to grow food/keep space cows and set up a farm shop to supply the org with food. she only has an hour or so a night to play herself so were keeping that a smaller task.
Yeah. My concern isn’t PVP or piracy, I welcome these. My concern is that cig have dumped a big brown smelly in the game and its breeding griefers and rather than creating deterrents they have slanted it so in their favour that it’s just going to breed more.
KOS players hiding behind the PVP moniker is the issue. KOS try hards are nothing more then a cat chasing a laser very child like. Go play COD and leave Star Citizen for the adults.
you're not older just because you don't like pvp!(RP != PVP) You're the little kid who cries because the game allows you to play a style where you suck or too lazy to learn it! If I have valuable cargo or just don't want to lose my kit, I'll kill you when I see you if you get in my way! If you don't want that Stanton is all yours you'll never see me there again! But if you want military components for your Caterpillar you are looking for the conflict otherwise you don't need military components(or 80% of the ships) so it's good that they are lured behind PVP! But I will be happy to sell them to you even though you will never need them for PVE! And what a surprise CIG creates an economy for gamplay loops you don't want to play which is OK but not the PVE players alone decide how the game should look like! and neither Spectrum nor Reddit alone decides something like that!!!
Yeah that'll work... They could equally say to you, 'go play Elite Dangerous if you want safe space gameplay'. KOS gameplay is legit because everyone and their ships are lootable/salvageable.
Sounds like you need to grow up yourself and accept the outcome of your decisions. If you go to an unlawful system you can't expect safety. It just illogical to expect that.
Because chat seems to include all 500 or so people across a shard, it's weird seeing chat that a server or two in Stanton have had server errors while servers in Pyro remain all good at the same time.
I’ll ask the question again. Why do industrial ships have such poor deterrents? It’s this wierd rule that’s come out of nowhere or it’s been based on life on earth where there are loads of deterrents not to attack one like the police…
It’s simply because balance. It’s either fun, balanced, or realistic, or a mix of all three. It cannot be completely balanced and fun or realistic, so they take fun away to make it more “balanced” to make the sweats feel better and not cry when they can’t solo take down a reclaimer with a fighter.
Ships are attacked constantly in real life. Even with "police"/ Nato navy ships, there is a vast amount of area to cover. Just look at how many Somali pirates were paid off by big companies in the last year.
@ Single ships that aren’t part of massive industrial operations (like small crew ships in SC) provide their own security in real life. If you are a $1billion company, sure, throw money at the pirates. The smaller boats have to fight though.
@@nortynorts4156 exactly, they’re is a reason pirate choose ships that are poorly defended and not willing to fight back. CIG needs large ships poorly equipped to keep PVPers from pissing themselves when they can’t kill capital shops with a single heavy fighter.
@pheebs8451 The question of why don't industrial ships have better deterrents can also be answered by looking at real life shipping. Why don't they fit tankers with large guns, radar, 50 marines etc. Because they are trying to be as efficient as possible with the cost of the ship, to maximise profits.
I’ve played Pyro for about 12 hours total. I’ve been solo the whole time. The ONLY time I’ve been engaged in PvP is when I did the CZs. I went to multiple outposts in my Carrack and explored them and saw multiple people each time fly down in their ships circle around my Carrack and then search around the town then land do whatever they were doing and fly off. I recognize that there is a higher chance of things going south real fast in Pyro over Stanton, but I’ve yet to actually have a problem. I think a lot of people have made up a horrible scenario of what Pyro is in their head and they have become afraid of that idea.
You are wrong, and you basically won the lottery with your Peaceful situation. Do not correlate winning the lotto with "oh this must be the reality for everyone else then"
Bingo. People get so worked up about hypothetical scenarios that "could" supposedly happen, but rarely ever do. But if it's "possible" for it to happen, they convince themselves that it WILL happen constantly. Then it just... doesn't, and things are basically fine. Every single time a new feature/change happens, this cycle repeats.
@@Azkr- lol imagine commenting “you are wrong” on the relating of an anecdote. At no point did I say this is everyone’s experience or that other’s experiences are fake. I related my experience and said I think a lot of people have overblown what the situation in Pyro is. Also winning the lottery would be if this happened once. This has happened dozens of times over multiple days and sessions. This is also a lot of other people’s experience as well. Now as I acknowledged in my first post the system does have the potential for bad things to happen quickly and that it could have happened to me. However Pyro so far, in my experience (and that experience has been somewhat corroborated by others), has not been the “kill everyone you see all the time no exceptions MadMax hellscape” that people in spectrum try to convince others it is.
Yes people don’t like to get ganked or griefed, but if you at least get security ships to respond to innocent people getting attacked like they do in Elite Dangerous. If different when they can get away with attacking and only getting a crime stat. Have help show up just like in real life. Make the pirate or ganker have to make the decision to stay or run.
These conversations are super important, even as a learning opportunity for those that dislike the piracy loop. It's always better to be aware and prepared!
I don't have time to find the exact location right now, but somewhere around the 20 minute Mark is where I would like to just say it comes down to cig setting the actual expectations. You know in game that pyro is dangerous and that you have to always be prepared for everything. When you go do missions you know and it's not just some tangible thing that people don't think about, but you have to always be thinking about what could go wrong at any given time when you're in pyro and have that be communicated clearly through in-game means.
It’s adorable how yall keep talking about voip. First thing I do in every game is disable voip and sc is certainly no exception. There’s zero chance of many people ever using voip in this game.
Two things: murder hobos will die down as the launch fades, other people will come to pyro and provide protection, my org is doing a zero to hero fresh start but when we have the capital we plan to move operations to pyro and protect people in our AO
Piracy: As long as you realize that YOUR fun comes from imposing your preferred gameplay on someone else without asking, at the expense of THEIR currently preferred gameplay. That's what piracy is. In Pyro of course, all bets are off. Just by going there you sign up for that. The sad thing is though, that Stanton isn't really much better, because there is no consequence for the criminal yet, beyond afk'ing a bit at Klescher once in a blue moon. And even that is just another gameloop, not a deterrent.
I swear it, it's people's attitudes and expectations that ruin the experience for them more than half the time. Even I have to acknowledge it, and I think that is a healthy thing to realize. Take a step back, realize Star Citizen is a sandbox, and from time to time, you are going to experience getting sand kicked in your face. And that is by design.
im fine with open pvp in pyro but i really hope that its regulated enough that you can be 80-90% sure that you can exit your shit at an friendly outpost without getting shot at directlie, when you are in a ship you usually see whats comming when red marked ships aproach you but thats hard to say on foot right now a legit pirate that turns up with interdiction and tryes to take your stuff is fine, i just feel like most of the time i and even org mates got attacked not just because someone whanted our stuff rather than someone had funn killing people
A lot of my problems in 4.0 was after the hot fix was patched into preview. Deleting shader files cleared most of it up. I think there were some issues created by high population too.
They are geriatric try Hards with nursing home reflexes that get their kicks out of destroying defenseless ships and thrive on the idea that they just destroyed that persons game experience They also have the audacity to think the PvE players that they griefed should just respawn come back and become more content for them. These griefers who couldnt get out of Bronze 5 in OW if their life depended on it, will ruin the Star Citizen experience and will repel the current and future legions of PvE players that could make SC an unmitigated success or whose absence; a catastrophic FAILURE.
@@evans9215 This is a direct quote from the show's transcript: "so my favorite gameplay Loop is is probably camping Brio's breakyard on Stanton and waiting for somebody with a ship full of drugs to land and then you whack them and you steal all the drugs and you've been playing the game like this and then all of a sudden you're a billionaire I absolutely love this I cannot stress how how fun this is to me right it's it's the most degenerate rat gameplay the game has to offer"
@@gorganhorn6872 While I largely agree with you. I contend this is a CIG problem. If CIG fails to manage this dynamic, it will be CIG's fault the project fails. Some boys never grow up, and some people never face their life's trauma to become a better person. That is just the way of the world and it outside the control of CIG and everyone else. CIG, can implement systems that mitigate that behavior and make it more fun for everyone, but will they.... THAT IS THE QUESTION..?
@gorganhorn6872 had someone start backstabbing on Phase 3, who then called us content for him to play with. It'll be nice once player reputation gets added for adding people for missions. That and prison time only counting in game time. Give a bit more weight to in game actions.
I believe that piracy will be griefing and Star Citizen will be a dark forest until death of a space man. So far there are no consequences and so I can't respect someone trying to steal my hard earned cargo. Once they're actually risking more than a couple hours of prison and a couple guns, I'll respect them and fight tooth and nail but if i lose, it'll be on me instead of somebody looking for a fight because there are no consequences if they die
Assuming that CIG can make AI challenging, I think NPC cargo could be really interesting for pirates. It seems very feasible to me that AI could carry cargos that are of a higher value or are rarer than your average player could transport with a strong/high risk escort. Rather than just making NPC cargo a filler whilst you wait for players, they could make it a "mini event".
I love GOOD let me repeat that, GOOD, piracy game play. As an industrial player I ave had the opportunity to experience both good and bad piracy. IMHO, flying in and blowing up my ship while i try to land at a station is not good game play but….wait don’t go off yet, fly in or interdict me in transit between places and actually soft death my ship, communicate with me with your intentions or what the cost is to pass through your space safely and we all have fun.
Love how we're supposed to care what thieves think. I get it, you're 'adding content', but you're still trying to steal something you didn't put time in for. So my question remains. Why do care what thieves think or want?
They are an important part of the game and it is hard work putting together a skilled and effective pirate crew this is why Chris Roberts himself plans to play as a pirate and why they call him the Dread Pirate Roberts.
@@rooster1012 LOL, no. You have that backwards. Not once has a miner or a hauler needed a thief to come rob them in order to complete a job. It's the other way around. Lawless players need lawful players. We don't need you for our gameplay loops. You need us.
@checkfortunnels wrong. This is how exactly how pirates become murder hobos. If you do not have goods to pirate you are target practice if I feel like it.
Hey guys. I am only about half way through this video, but I think you are missing a lot of topics. 1) while voiDude takes a thrill out of challenging encounters with other people, not everyone feels this way. For me it really depends on my own mood, but if I just want to wind down from a long day, I feel disturbed by such encounters. This also clearly ties in to 2) the issue that the game completely lacks giving you any awareness of your surroundings. Hundreds of stranded ships everywhere don’t tell you if a player could still be around, sometimes the game does not even show you what you have locked on, sometimes it could be a very easy to fight off NPC or a skilled player. Also if there is a player around, you will only learn about their intentions when you are dead. There is often not enough time to react. Actions like equipping a gun or enabling it must flag players red, to give the other side a chance to react. This then finally lines up with 3) there is no reason at all to not kill that other player. If you do so, you may get their loot, ship, cargo, etc. If you leave them alive, they might shoot first and kill you. Kills must be tough decisions in this game with incredible hefty penalities, that cannot be easily hacked off by a usb stick. Until the game delivers and respects these 3 points, it will be really hard to not see this game as space CoD.
A lot of systems CIG is developing is suppose to bring things to a balance for PvP, such as the new social app which lets you find groups make allies, etc. Then you have rep which if you're an ally of a faction, then getting attacked by a player when you're surrounded by your ally NPCs, that player should get wrecked. These are things that will change the experience greatly and right now ppl are complaining about a half baked game. It'll eventually get there but you gotta understand the experience today will not be the 1.0 experience. You're just part of the process of getting there.
My experience of Pyro is: 8pm log on Spend 4 hours: - Going back and forward from hanger to lobby trying to spawn my bugged ship - Not appearing and disappearing bugged bounty missions - Trying to deal with missing bugged jump locations - When i do reach a location, enemy is bugged and not spawning - Switching servers to try and find a more working, stable experience Eventually getting annoyed and giving up Last night I literally spent 4 hours on a single mission I stole a ship full of stims, I was delighted with my heist. Warping back to base to offload my score and obviously my ship and cargo randomly despawned mid warp and left me with nothing floating in space wasting yet another night. The current state of Star Citizen is only for Masochists who like to inflict pain on themselves.
I'll never forget the bug that made me drop Star Citizen for a couple years. The god damn cockpit bug. Where it would just randomly open your cockpit while flying, dogfighting, whatever and wherever.
This whole "if you could pirate NPCs" question already has an answer because a lot of npc kill mission targets spawn with valuable cargo. It's actually a great way to make money. But at the end of the day, PvPers make money in PvE to fund their PvP activities. To add some structure and limits to that, reputation needs to really, really matter.
The introduction of the Pyro system in Star Citizen brings immense potential but also significant risks to gameplay balance. Piracy and toxic behavior from some players undermine the idea of building an ecosystem where independent pilots can provide resources and establish businesses. Instead, large orgs, with the means to defend themselves and monopolize resources, will dominate Pyro. This will create a closed system, enriching the few and denying the broader player base the opportunity to explore Pyro's potential. As a result, smaller players and organizations will avoid Pyro, retreating to Stanton or other safer systems. This imbalance could cripple Pyro's economy, leaving pirates to mine their own resources and act as traders themselves. If this happens, Pyro becomes a barren wasteland for most players while Stanton thrives as a trade hub with cheap resources. To address this, CIG might eventually implement stricter PvP moderation systems to ensure fairness, but this feels like a reactive fix rather than proactive community management. It’s clear: giving absolute freedom often leads to chaos. Some players use this freedom to ruin the experience for others, creating a toxic environment. As a community, we need to take responsibility and establish rules and systems within Pyro to curb toxic behavior and ensure the best possible gameplay experience. This means creating safe zones, cooperating to protect players providing essential services, and taking action against griefers. Pirates, too, should understand the value of fair deals-charging reasonable rates to keep traders, miners, and repair crews in the system. Without collaboration, Pyro's economy will collapse. Griefers-those who disrupt gameplay purely for their own enjoyment-should face real consequences. Bounty systems, public lists of disruptive players, and community-enforced justice could help create balance. If necessary, Pyro can become a player-driven region with its own "laws" to preserve fairness and ensure that the system thrives. Ultimately, we all want Star Citizen to succeed, and that requires building a community where cooperation, roleplay, and fair competition thrive. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil the galaxy for everyone.
I hope one day we can still host private servers in the future. I'll get to enjoy Pyro when I'm hosting my own server. My real first new system will be Castra. You hit the nail on the head. Whenever you give players free reign they will ruin the experience of other players every time. You also nailed it on the dream they sold was living a space fantasy that we've seen in movies, tv shows, other games, and media. The dream they sold for a decade got delayed or outright deleted at Citizencon and all the messaging since then. It went from this epic awesome game where you could live your space fantasy. To Ark Space evolved, Conan Spacemans, SRising, StarZ. 1.0 is going to be every generic survival game shelved in our steam libraries instead of the dream they sold.... The murder hobos, PvPers, Griefers, and huge orgs get everything they wanted. All the cake they can eat. The majority of the players who funded this game get nothing that they excitedly backed for. Until some nebulous time in the future, maybe, possibly. Not at all? Towards the end you made a point that is entirely inaccurate. Paraphrasing but "PvE players play against the computer to win because it is winnable." "PvP players want the challenge." Those are two very inaccurate statements. Not all PvE games are designed to allow you to win. They are designed to provide an appropriate challenge that fits within a guidelines where it is possible to win with the player and AI parties playing by the same rules (or faked on the ai side to save on processing with reactive appropriate measures). It is possible to win. It is also possible to lose. Providing a challenge. PvP players almost never want a fair fight. The most fun a PvP player can have is when they stomp on people wholesale. As a 6 star Hunt player the biggest draw is those times where we have a good fight but still slaughter multiple teams. I actively try to down rank by running bad or sometimes no weapons at all because 6 star lobbies are boring, harder, with too many cheaters on the top end. The best fights happen in 4 and 5 star lobbies. I don't want to fight that legit 2 star because that isn't a fair fight. But slaughtering them in the moment before knowing their ranking is where the "fun" lands but at least the game respects your time, everyone is there for the same reason. Star Citizen has too much of a time sink. Is meant to originally be an immersive simulation. Instead its just full of those PvPers looking to club those baby seals who aren't there for the PvP.
I feel like the murder hobo-ing will cool off a bit as the patch goes on, but yeah - Pyro's dangerous. With the player counts up, players need to have situational awareness. In a system like Stanton, now that Pyro exists and criminal players have a place to go and do stuff, the consequences for anti-social actions should be very swift and very punishing: long prison sentences, overwhelming NPC forces, etc - and the opposite should be true in Pyro. About the only thing that's missing in Pyro is the gangs cracking down on actions that would hurt their livelihood (ie. someone sitting off a station and just ganking everyone who tries to leave)
Despite the implied condemnation of KOS, unrestricted PVP will absolutely devolve into that almost every time you have a balanced encounter, if you stop and think about it for more than 5 seconds. Let's assume you don't want to kill that player over there because you don't need his stuff, but guess what? You don't know if he "needs" your stuff, so unless you want to become a victim, the smart play is to take out everyone you see before they do the same to you. The only time you wont have 'shoot first ask questions later' is when both sides don't need anything from the other AND each side also makes the same bad decision to trust the other. The only exception is when you have the numbers needed to be certain of your victory AND it is also obvious to the other player or smaller group that they will lose if they attack. Only then can you afford to be magnanimous and let them go. But what if they are spies sent to scope out your team? or just the advance team sent to distract you? Too late, while you were being friendly, their real friends got the drop on you from behind and now you are in a cross fire. So you tell yourself, next time will be different, it has to be shoot first. Its the only way to be sure.
It's not all over the place, the player experience degrades as more people log on. I set my clock for 2 am on Sunday and the server was friggin cherry. Missions worked, 30 fps were steady, elevators/qt worked flawlessly. By noon, nothing worked and the game crashed so much it was unplayable. I wish CIG would just work on the shit we already have versus adding new problems into this broken game.
28:00 for the last 8 minutes and after this Yes, SC is a game that will introduce to you thinking about systems. Voidude is describing the kind of player that doesn't yet understand that there are individuals and there are systems. The systems will let you do whatever, but other individuals may not and its a rude awakening to this reality when it happens to someone. It is also why so many people can't stand talking about politics in real life. But it doesnt matter, the systems in real life will get you none the less if you arent paying attention
I'll be honest if someone killed me and stole 36 million credits worth of stuff from me. I'd probably never play the game again. I dont play in a way to ever have that much risk but even if i lost 2 million worth of cargo, which is usually pretty low risk id probably not play again for months. Yes i might only be in 10-15% of the playerbase thats like this but the game cant afford to lose that many players.
A truly lawless system wouldn't have trade or industry, because no one would bother to build the infrastructure to support it. If someone did build or maintain that infrastructure (like local gangs) they would bring their own laws and protections to their locations, so customers of theirs would feel comfortable in coming and doing business with them. There are only 2 ways to secure your business, either through force or obscurity. Obscurity is not going to work if you expect traders to find your station or outpost, to trade at. That works fine for a one on one, one time, drug deal, but it wouldn't work for general trade. Right now, when you show up to a Pyro outpost, to buy or sell something, and someone attacks you, they are not only attacking you, but they are inhibiting trade for whomever controls that outpost. In other words, they are attacking the local gang. Seemingly, that should only have to happen a couple of times, before that local gang sent security to that outpost and put up a buncha turrets. Otherwise, no one is going to go there anymore. These are the real world type things that need to be taken into consideration, when planning both game play and economy, in Star Citizen.
We are in server mesh now so I saw people last night in chat saying that the Microtech server went "Server Error" then recovered, meanwhile everyone at Arccorp is humming along just fine. Its wild!
I had no issues friday and saturday morning. Saturday night and sunday I was trapped in Pyro Station since couldn't get any ship and also Chat was off (i don't care that much about chat). And contracts not showing... But yeah, it was playing better than any time since I started to play the game in 2022
In the future I anticipate large orgs will control sections of Pyro. There will be turf wars for sure. But I also see how players can be granted access with protection with a price.
It absolutely is a CIG problem. And in classic fashion they dont want to or know how to manage it. They need Tony Z's Quantum NPC simulation. I assert that without it the entire project will fail. Right now is the time to implement it and have NPCs capable of defending their own outposts. This also brings NPCs to those outposts to be pirated by players; statistically reducing the number of random PvP encounters. Otherwise they might as well remove all NPCs and rebrand it as Battle Feild in space.
Once voip and hailing other ships works i think a lot of things in pyro will be more interesting. I want to talk and negotiate with people not just shoot on sight. Im ok with pvp i just hope there is some communication between players.
voiDude is right on the Money. Because Pyro has always been marketed as a PVP area, I have zero intention of ever spending any time there. I loath PVP in any and all games. I'm invested in Star Citizen for the co-op multiplayer experience, not a PVP experience. The fact that CIG keeps talking about how they intend to focus on polishing Pyro while Stanton is completely broken still really worries me. CIG keeps moving on to the next shiny new thing and abandoning everything behind them. Focus on the existing ships instead of pumping out new ships. Fix the existing locations before adding new locations. Space Tomato mentioned the Star Map. That's been broken for YEARS. The website has never worked on mobile phones.
The irony of the whole PvE server idea is that your still not safe because people who want to hurt carebears or rage bait can just ship ram you, waste your time, and you cant shoot back because guess what that gets you a crime stat or hurts your rep. I do hope once bounty hunting comes in there will be player bounty missions to give trade ships a bit more retaliatory action aside from run away.
PVP and PVE players environment should not be mixed. SC Should be more CoOp by default with option of PVP when players agree or factions disputes or specific bounty missions or specific systems. Pyro should be PVP by default and Stanton PVP should not be allowed unless im toggled to do so, only NPC enemies.
while there are issues, I can say without compromise. The issues are no different than 3.24 or my expectation of SC. I have been able to play 4.0 the same as I would in 3.24. My biggest surprise is that my framerate is consistently about 40 now and outside of landing zones at 60. So baring the issue of missions, I have no probably with 4.0. I have yet to make it to Pyro. I need some reserve cash incase I befall an unfortunate accident by other players. Later.
CIG needs to roll out a proper bounty hunting and laws system. Unfortunately they aren’t talking about this at all. Pyro is suppose to be lawless governed by NPC gangs and players. There are no mechanics in the game to do this. There is no way to put bounties on players head, there are no rep mechanics, there is no NPC gang factions that enforce their rules in their domain. Heck even the UEE can’t even protect the jump pint which is suppose to be monitored and under their protection.
I fear that Pyro will only attract already established pvp "enthusiasts", pve players and most importantly NEW backers will probably not be too interested in that kind of setup
Was it back in 3.19 or 3.20 when there was a lot of complaining about pirates as well? Pyro is the new shining toy, and there has been less missions do in Stanton than normal. Soon, the newness will wear off, and people will learn strategies while being there. If there is a lot of pirate players, then there will be a lot to to for the PvPers that prefers to be on the pirate hunter side. I'm mainly a solo player that's mostly do industrial or hauling game-play. I really don't have a problem with the risk of being attacked, as long as I can mitigate that risk. SC is already huge, Step one to pirate someone is after all to find a target. Having to go through a choke-point or going for high value cargo? Those are after all not mandatory, and if I want to do it solo, then I just have to roll the dice. However, with the option of being in several orgs, I would be surprised if there isn't already "solo orgs" for very temporary groups, which could be used for a convoy through the wormhole, only to disband the group the second everybody is safe on the other side. Yes, future mechanics will make it better. Reputation will probably make piracy a bit more costly. Death having a cost in itself will on the other hand add an extra cost to using self-destruct, and might make extortion a more viable pirate tactic.
Voidy going on about reputation like it's going to make any difference. Even assuming there are Consequences (tm) CIG has no choice but to make any amount of bad rep with any faction something you can fix, so at worst it will just be a minor speedbump.
I mean... we don't really even have a game yet, so speculation is hard. However, my concern is that CIG has created a problem by selling everything. Ships, (especially ships) weapons, armor etc. So, in the end, what progression is going to motivate us to play? If modern gaming has taught us anything, it's that gamers stay engaged with their games more frequently, IF there's something to work towards. My hope is that there will be rewards, again, ships (especially ships), weapons etc., that can ONLY be attained by playing the game, and running through progression. And that there's a path for both types of players to the same reward, meaning both PvP and PvE. Because are we really going to be motivated simply by UEC? I doubt it. There is SO MUCH that CIG has to get into this game to keep players occupied, and they so very far away from creating these game experiences, whether it's meaningful missions, crafting, base building, exploration, etc. Fingers crossed, but they have to keep us engaged, and as much as I enjoy turning off my brain just mining or salvaging or even npc bounties... we need depth, reasons to keep showing up. My final take is... meaning gameplay, with meaningful rewards, will only enhance both sides of the PvP/PvE debate, regardless of the system we're flying around in. Great talk Tomato! I mean, this one was a bit more ludicrous than your others... but, we know why that is! 😂
The progression will be through the following: Narrative campaign, org wars, raiding bases, building bases, org space stations, end game content like raids, upgrading ships and components (all bought ships start as the lowest tier), just playing the game for fun, survival due to death of.a spaceman, and even more.
voiDude doesnt understand players that dont want pvp, thats okay its hard to understand people who have very different opinions on something so subjective. StarCitizen is so fun even for solo pve only players that it could be single player and we would still put hundreds of hours into what the game has currently (assuming it actually worked as intended) counterboarding a purate isn't something i ever want to have to do. It just makes me have less fun. I enjoy pvp but only when i want to do pvp its that simple if im not looking for a fight it doesn't matter if im doing a "high risk" activity i just dont want to engage in pvp.
Putting most of the servers in Pyro was a terrible idea. I get the intent... to "nudge" people into going there to love PvP. That's why they had the most return and unique loot. However, from what In can see most people are still PvE and want to play in "safer" Stanton. Yet those servers are overloaded. I think this explains why most of the streamers (who went to Pyro) are having very good performance and most players (in Stanton) are having very bad experiences on overloaded servers. CIG is out of step here with most of the community, which is casual PvE. But, it makes sense that the "core" are low-risk combat roles. in a buggy "alpha" it's grab what you can, so combat takes little time, no investment, and pays off instantly. There's no long-term or risky part to the investment like there is in mining or hauling. That small group is very vocal making CIG thing they are the majority, and they are a higher proportion in buggy patches when the PvE casuals "sit it out" until it gets more stable. Right now it's not as relevant because it's still an "alpha" and they aren't depending on regular gamers to keep the game going... but if they ever get out of "testing" then they'll need that long-term casual PvE majority to sustain it with other gameloops. Plus as other people have said, the "PvP' is not realistic at all. "Lawless" doesn't mean "defenseless." Gangs defend territory, and attacking one gang will curry favor with the other gang, supposedly gaining you some "protection." Until that rep system is fully in game, (especially the negative side to it of being shot on site by those you have very low rep with or crime stats) it really is just random chaos and griefer central. They've remove what little balance they had on it, so predictably it's blown up in their face... again. CIG doesn't tend to do things gradually or slowly. They seem to like to totally keep breaking things instead of trying to tweak them to learn how to balance. (Like the shields, quantum, economic system, etc)
Stanton isn't really a starting location game wise. You really need to start a game like this in a "safe zone". There is so much to learn before you have any idea how to deal with players.
We may see that in the future if they ever deliver the new security and reputation system. You may pirate in safe systems but know the navy will be there. The map with safety zones shown at CitizenCon.
Voidy seems like a nice chap but I do find his type of gameplay a bit toxic. Nice to see the guy behind the persona. I guess that helps make it feel less personal if you're on the receiving end of one of his emergent gameplay sessions :-)
It's a mixed experience definitely. Performance is nice, Pyro looks great, so many good things in 4.0. And then you try to enter, and first time you get the frontend first spawn error, loging in has a queue, you can still fall through floors, hangars keep bugging out and having double doors... and the list keeps going.
@@brianchristopher8843 Me too, extent of my bugs list is QT bug, contracts not showing up bar a few, and a couple relocations that felt a bit cheap. Apart from that, smoothest the game has ever performed for me
@pxkqd I've had the worst experience since 3.18. Seems pretty luck of the draw. Actually I liked 3.18 better because I just quit but this makes me want to play and be miserable.
You know why those experiences are your top 5? It’s because it rarely happens cause people suck and will ruin the game. There will be many groups that just go around and destroy people for no reason and they will be a majority of pirates not a minority of them.
The thing to understand about Eve is the developers didn't do anything, the player base ruled itself. You had high security regions medium security regions and no security reg ions and that was just the way that it was. Humans are mean and nasty without civilized society to keep them in check they do what they want.
Yep. To expound on that a little more. Humans always gravitate to law.. Any large group will develop the because of that. tribes form and generate law. i.e. Pyro gangs, factions and reputation are key to solving this. SC is not EVE. nor should it be. They want vastly more players than EVE. This is not a purely player governed universe. It's an NPC ruled universe with players having some impact but not wholly player controller. That is not what most people signed up for.
I've been interdicted more time by NPC's than players , I was doing the phase 1 taking the cargo back lol in an Connie so I just went for the mantis once that was gone I turned around and jumped out lol but if players was there oooh that scary but that PVP is what makes SC good not knowing if your going to get jumped or not . taking that different rout . hang back and see if its safe. I for 1 will stick to the Law and I wont shoot first but I will fight back your not having my cargo for nothing . now the ships not blowing up straight away will make it I just hope I remember to bring a gun and a repair tool.
Voidy brought up an interesting tidbit early on that many of us have brought up in the forums concerning Pyro ... the absolute lack of ANY safe spot whatsoever. While Pyro is a lawless system, if you land your ship at a major settlement run by, say, Citizens for Prosperity, then surely that outpost would have turrets and armed guards attacking anyone who dares turn hostile at THEIR settlement. Lawless doesn't means stupid. Lawless means run by gangs instead of the UEE. And like in real life, gangs should have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to people attacking others on THEIR territory without their consent. This is an important distinction.
Space between those stations and outposts? Have at it. The gangs don't care. But until those major stations and settlements have either an armistice zone or a destroy anything shooting anything zone, then there will be absolutely no gameplay at those locations since no one can park their vehicle there without it getting immediately destroyed by another player. Repair missions? Gone. Cargo missions? Gone. Box missions? Gone. This is a serious problem.
@@KaybeCA stop being a victim.
@@fwdcnorac8574 stop being a troll.
No safe spaces. I absolutely agree the defenses need to be there, but if you aren't allied with the outpost, why would they defend you? And it wouldn't mean you can't be attacked, just that turrets might provide a deterrent. They won't determine a massive ship though so the issue will persist.
You are correct that a drug cartel would end you instantly if you came into their territory and started killing/robbing their customers, but it's irrelevant to the game. Real life criminal organizations, that are competent enough to hold territory against all opponents trying to take it from them, don't look or act like what CIG is making. They aren't basing any of it on realism.
The only reason the POIs exist in Pyro is to serve as gathering points for pvp, and to attract other players to Pyro to become content. Pyro in lore is barren with nothing to attract any legitimate people or businesses, but if they kept it that way in game there would be no one there except pirates and no one for them to pirate. The trade commodities, the mining ores, the missions etc are only there so that lawful players have some reason to go to Pyro (kind of important for CIG's new system to have players in it) and the reason lawful players are needed in Pyro is because a lawless system isn't really lawless if there are no victims.
You're wrong. If the landing area can't protect you, then go with a group. Protect yourself. Armistice Zones kill gameplay, not players.
57:00 Ship to Ship Murder Hoboing is more prevalent than piracy, and THAT is the problem. If they were using the systems available to identify a worthy target I could understand it, but they're murder hobos.
Pyro has just amplified this. It's given them a place to be. A place where they're allowed to murder hobo.
What i'd like to see, while Pyro still being unlawful, tie rep into murder. If you murder someone with rep in the same faction as you, you lose rep in that faction. Ultimately, you should know who you're killing and have a reason to be doing so.
Yes but they can move freely for everywhere and that isn't how Pyro must work. if there are antagonistic factions, even grifters couldn't be safe everywhere, they probably will try to be friendly towards a faction to have a place where to land or place a base, but will be attacked outside.
What's the problem with "Ship to Ship Murder Hoboing?" Genuine question. "I don't like it" and "it will kill the game" are not valid arguments. Go!
@@CitizenScott I guess you're saying that sociopaths need an outlet too?
If all you want to do is blow things up go play arena commander.
@@BrendenChase77 Ah bummer. I was hoping you had a real argument. Oh well.
@CitizenScott you've mistaken me for someone who cares.
Been having a loot of pvp players attack me even when I don’t even have anything. They only attack to kill.
So been staying out of pyro until there is a system where what you do in pyro will have a consequence. For now it’s not. If you die as a pvper you respawn and start again. If you die as an pve player it’s the same, but depends on what they are doing. PvP people never risk losing anything in the end only time
I don't think consequence is the issue, as much as there really isn't a whole lot to do in Pyro right now. Or the missions are so broke that it creates the boredom where players want to go after that fresh fight.
And it's perfect this way. While I am 100% on board with harsh punishment in safer or even medium sec systems, null sec systems like Pyro should remain a free for all, mayhem infused PvP galore. I know, it's not everyone that like that. Then again, Why should Pyro be for everyone? Pyro is the system you come into expecting to get shot and hoping to survive. Not a cool PvE system with a pirate paint over it.
They doing good job , making noise hopefully devs do something with this shit they created and put without thinking about consequences.
The whole point of pyro is to be a more lawless pvp system. Consequences make no sense.
@hasearo7405 No PvE players will ever admit to that. To them, Stanton is a safe PvE system where we should be heavily punished if we attack them, and Pyro is a safe PvE system with a pirate theme where blood thirsty NPC pirates will come save them from PvP.
When the majority of your PvP is focused on preying on solo or weak players, that are trying to do non PvP activities, this is a recipe for a dead game. When you can lose hours of playtime by being killed once, you will be driving away all but the smallest, most dedicated player base. Which is fine for non-MMO games, but poison for MMOs that rely on casual gamers much more than the hardcore base.
Beta. ................... sorry j/k I couldn't resist.
@@WigganNuG That but unironically. Bobs, stay out of pyro.
Source?
Nonesense, it just drives away people that don't listen, read or think twice before taking action or going somewhere. People should stop complaining because they get ganked for their own ignorance.
One problem I see common in gaming is that the PvP won't stay in Pyro. Face it, there is always a fraction of the PvP community (sometimes a large fraction) that doesn't want to struggle against other players, they want to dominate them. They are the ones that will find the loopholes that allow them to inflict their version of PvP on a player that should be safe from everything but a fender-bender. That's the extreme version but in between the extremes is where the game will succeed or fail.
The majority of Star Citizen players are griefers? Surrreee....
PvP is not meant to stay in Pyro that is why there will be other Jump points into Stanton for pirates and smugglers to use, I have to laugh when I hear people cry about PvP but when they get attacked the first thing they do is ask for help in chat and want others to come and PvP for them.
Depending on how you define griefing, a small group of trolls can cause a lot of damage with little effort and no consequences.
Stanton PvE players have to burn much more time to get a decent return with the tangible risk of losing hours of effort to any random coward who is too scared of Pyro. And all a perp in Stanton gets for consequences is a slap on the wrist while they wait a few minutes for another free ship. Nothing and no one is hunting them down and PvE players get the short end of the stick.
If you're not into masochism, play a better game.
@@4tonmike Stanton has GrimHex to begin with. But it's different than piracy in Microtech, or ArcCorp, or Hurston, or Orison that may be more a bit more safer. But PVP don't limits to Piracy, it also goes with Bounty Hunting and Mercenary jobs against pirates.
@@Haegemon
I'm talking about PvP as Player vs Player, not fighting NPCs on contracts. It's fine when a Player Pirate tells me to pay up or lose your ship, but there's no incentive for players to choose to protect or defend industry players.
Contracts and piracy are much easier, more fun, and pay better. Even at a 50/50 split, industry players don't make enough to make it worth a random PvP player's time. Especially now that contract rewards were increased and mining/salvage rates have dipped. Any "Pirating" that starts with destroying the salvager first is just for the lulz at someone else's expense. Better to leave the space pirate sim to the griefer apologists and play better games.
I love the question about the risk for the pirate, it's the same thought I have. There should be an equally steep cost to failing a raid as there is for the hauler getting pirated.
This is a tthing that gets addressed with death of a spaceman as well with ships blowing up having consequences. Currently we just get everything for free so obviously there's no risk unless you're hauling cargo you bought yourself (definitely the most dangerous profession currently).
Best gear in Pyro, like puting best military gear only to lut in Afganistan. Contested zones should give drugs, not gear and selling those should be most profitable in Stanton - grim Hex. Selling medical stuff, basic food etc from Stanton should be more profitable in Pyro.
This is actually a sensible comment.
That’s an amazing idea!
These rewards are needed to get people to test just like mining and salvage where horribly easy to make money, keep in mind when crafting comes in it will be the best way to get these items in game and on a regular basis with no risk of perma-death.
@@rooster1012 it’s hilarious. Why do they want the “best PVP loot” if they don’t PvP?
Why do you want the best gear if you can mow NPCs with just the basic stuff?
I wish they'd left 4.0 til next year. They've completely wasted the potential for bringing new people to the game on the most important release They've ever had. If they had a stable build then they'd have an increase in support, insanely needed good press and existing players would literally be over the moon. The IGN vid basically advertises nothing that new players would understand and as usual, the comments are all full of people hating on it. They just don't do themselves any favours. Considering they have a insanely on point marketing team, they certainly know how to mess up great opportunities for the sake of a ship sale
I agree the IGN vid misses the mark, but I think CIG did the right thing by getting the patch to live before the holidays, during this break they will source so much useful information because people have the time to play it. Then CIG comes back and they can work to patch.
@mrch4nce while I do agree the development will speed up with the bug finding. I feel like people checking out the game for the first time after seing the promo vids will just log in and see it's broken. They have made money on the Guardian, but they've already lost the first impression on new backers and new money longer term
4.0 no longer is that important. The words of CR back in time made a 4.0 where no more wipes would happens and would be a much more important milestone. Now everything seems focused towards 1.0 and there it's more at stake.
@@whatasaverl6456 "people checking out the game for the first time after seing the promo vids will just log in and see it's broken".
This is a constant. The promo vids have been cooler than reality for years.
@Haegemon yes ofcourse there have been way more alluring and better trailers for the game. I'm just saying out of all the patches, the absolutely eff this one up as the biggest milestone they've ever had to date. The potential to grow from this release was immense with the amount of coverage and attention this will get. When your advertising a product as the biggest and best its ever been, have it in good condition so people buy into it and let it grow
I think there's a difference between accepting "that some of the gameplay's not meant for you" and "well, you just can't access 60-80% of the planets simply because you don't find PvP appealing". A lot of people backed Star Citizen because of the PROMISE of private servers, because they believed that meant they wouldn't be potentially forced into PvP piracy (or ganking as it usually is, because let's be honest, very little of it is like Voidude is describing himself playing) no matter where they went. And as time has gone on and people have heard more and more they've basically been told "no, it's going to be PvP unless you stay in safe zones that we can't even guarantee stay safe because the systems don't exist or are broken".
That's why people are upset about PvP and piracy. Because currently, with how, yes, the Internet works with people just out to ruin someone's day for kicks and the law system not working properly, the rather large section of Citizens who don't want PvP just see it as being forced on them both now and in the future.
He actually refers to his gameplay as ganking? He's not a pirate, then. He's a ganker who sometimes pirates. You can't have an honest discussion with someone like that.
I'm playing solo in Pyro from scratch, and that is not so difficult. The biggest anger are bugs, and not working contracts.
Agree.
After waiting in que and having several issues even starting, fly to pyro gate.. some shoots off a rocket at me before entering gate. Blow up. Then, finally, get to Pyro fly to a planet, someone chases me and shoots me down. If people are doing this to new players, they are only hurting the game. It takes too long to start playing the damn game to just get taken out in seconds.
No
They doing good job , making this make CIG do something with this shit they created without thinking about consequences.
Stay in stanton lmao
With the new 4.0 patch, I will say the game/server has been running extremely smooth for me and my friends. No it’s not perfect. Definitely still has bugs that break it from time to time. But there might be more to it. Do you have decent pc hardware to play? I was still playing the game with a Ryzen 5 and a GTX 1070 not even 4 months ago. I’ve upgraded my setup finally after years of waiting & saving. I will say it makes a great difference on preference. First time I started seeing FPS above 35-45 frames anywhere for myself. And with the new patch and the start of server meshing, it’s been a dream running really smooth. Not perfect. Still get bad bugs. But noticeably better than before. I would say having good specs can make the difference on your experience with the game.
As a PVE player I would take harder tuned AI enemies and more spawned ships as long as these threats are grounded IN-UNIVERSE.
I don’t want butter milk Bob and his gang of geriatrics ruining hours of gameplay while spamming immersion killing neck beard brain rot on chat destroying the limited game sessions that we have in our busy lives.
You PvP players can have your servers and PvE players who value maximum immersion can have theirs. That way both types can be happy except for the griefer tools whose main gameplay focus is to ruin other people’s game play experiences.
PVE SERVERS ARE ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY FOR STAR CITIZEN TO SUCCEED COMMERCIALLY.
Otherwise it’s only destination will be FLOP CITY.
Do not go to pyro alone silly.
5:00 Sorry guys but what game have you playing for the last 12 years. This light release of 4.0 is exactly the same game I have been playing for at least the last 5 years.
43:50 Y'all want that challenge, but also don't want that challenge, because you're still going to take it regardless. It's like the streamers complaining about SBMM making them work too hard. They want the seals to club. If the game becomes a sweatfest, you'll stop playing just like those seals you're clubbing.
Enough has happened over the years that I don't know if SC will ever feel like a cool place again. For years, anywhere I go, if there's an opportunity to be attacked in the slightest, I'm on eggshells. Never feels fun or exciting, just feels like someone might be waiting to waste the hours I've put into whatever I'm doing. While there have been cool interactions, it's morphed into "are they going to shoot at me?" - and that's it. No desire for interaction, communication - nothing. Just avoidance. The dream/idea of the game seems great, but either the tools aren't there or people mainly don't use them for any kind of normal, immersive experience. Immersion works when everyone buys into the same idea. As long as there are those that will treat the space as just a game to be glitched and dominated, then there will always be people who can easily break/ruin the immersion for anyone else.
@@kristianhawk Yep. A low trust society slants the risk/reward balance. CIG probably was hoping to make a situation where PvP players are supposed to protect their Org mates against other PvP players, but that only works when those defenders are online. Planetside makes sense because it's strictly PvP and has clear teams, so you can play whenever you like.
CIG should just probably split the game modes or just split the PvE into its own, single player/co-op game.
@@4tonmike This is why factions are necessary.. When you are a part of a faction it aligns a player with an in lore purpose for their actions. Right now killing another is simply a player choice that can be immersion breaking when their purpose is antithetical the point of the simulation. A lot these people want to hide behind some aspect of 'realism' but at the same time want to quote lawlessness as a reason to justify their actions. When in fact nothing about lawlessness eschews consequence, nor is it realistic.
@@ephalanx1 Pyro vs Stanton faction would be a start.
@@4tonmike Yeah.. I think they will start with that event stuff going on. Citizens for Prosperity and Frontier Fighters will be choices for the good side..BTW Citizens for Prosperity are also in Pyro. This already should inform the PvP folks that there are good guys in Pyro that would not take kindly to murderhoboing.. its highly disruptive to people living in Pyro despite it being lawless, that is simply not going to be tolerated.
When they do the Pyro event on the other side, Rough and Ready, Headhunters, or Xenothreat might be the options there. They said that players will have to make a choice that will important and have long term consequences. Basically sounds like you will be aligning yourself with a faction.
@@ephalanx1 Yes, Citizens of Prosperity are colonists who want to bring the UEE into the System. The other side are 2 sides in reality, Xenothreat the anti-alien anti-corporate militia, and the Crime Orgs with the Headhunters and Fire Rats mainly. These 2 groups fight against each other. Players will align with factions and Orgs probably will have to. It would be weird to have Orgs with Mercs and Council in the same boat. Rough & Ready are former Headhunters who wanted to quit active Crime and took over fuel refineries to become hotel keepers, so they are relatively neutral.
It seems that piracy, but also griefing, has no consequences in Pyro. Since I'm not interested in PVP I don't really have any interest in going there unless the rewards for a mission makes the risk worth it. If Pyro is just red Stanton with no rules then I'll stick to Stanton and hope all the "pirates" go have fun in Pyro.
You have the right mindset. Pyro is lawless and will eventually have consequence when rep work and the different gangs police there areas of commerce. Deep space is supposed to be dangerous and lawless. Risk and reward solar systems. Designed that way but it’s in preview status because missions and rep aren’t in fully. Pyro isn’t a vacation destination for the family. lol.
@@hamiltonbrown9591exactly. Lawless don’t mean you can do everything you like. The plan for reputation sounds great and fun. But it’s really missing. Can’t wait for that.
I don't mine PVP and Pirates, but if you're in an F8 and attacking a scavenger just to blow it up, you're an a-hole. If I'm in a F7, andromeda, or guardian feel free; but at least have some sportsman like conduct
awww.. so naive. Its adorable lmao. Its the internet bro; there's no such thing as "Sportsman like conduct"... expect to get ganked EVERYTIME, or win the fuckin' Darwin Award.
Cute
I had this very thing happen yesterday, and it makes me hate the game.
@@WigganNuG That's why it's broken. It's like saying "don't live in NYC if you don't wanna get mugged every day." Although like real life, people ARE speaking with their actions and not going to Pyro...which frankly is concerning CIG I'm sure since they spent so much to develop a very underutilized system now.
Kinda just sounds like you don't understand SC.
Think there is something to be said about why people play SC. Some crave adrenaline, others just want to unwind after the adrenaline of real life you know... I wish people would be more understanding of this. Way too many think that their way of enjoying the game is the standard and can't even start to comprehend the other.
That said, CIG did it backwards again; solid reputation system should have been in before pyro...
Pyro is a lawless system. I’d suggest staying in Stanton if you are casual. Because even with Rep it’s going to be the same. It’s gang warfare in Pyro. Not really for casuals. But if you go learn how to run until more lawful solar systems get built. Pryo isn’t for everyone. Pirates felt the same way in Stanton. Like they didn’t belong because folks hated PVP. The risk reward aspect is a good thing. Gives choices.
@@hamiltonbrown9591 Lawless does not mean lack of consequences, BTW there is still law in the system, its just gang law which is not in place yet and what the OP means.
The system wasn't meant as a hard divide between game play styles. Pirates represent less than 10% of the playerbase - I am sure they didn't make Pyro for just pirates. And no one said piracy didn't belong. The rep system brings consequence for murderhoboing. The system doesn't matter, this should be worked out for everyone's benefit.
Games work best when you have defined rules, structure and 'laws'. Free for alls are not fun. You choose to color outside the lines, then you simply got a mess no one thinks looks good.
Dont go to pyro if you want to chill! Lol
@@ephalanx1pyro is a high reward high risk system, its never meant to be a place for you to go to chill. Its nor just for pirates either! Pirates are there because people are there making loads of money due to the risk of being there
@@TKanal3if I say “Stay out of Stanton if you want to PvP!” what would you say?
I don’t know voiDude. Good for him if he has the time to have a fully fleshed org working on piracy. Some of us have wife, kids, multiple jobs, and no time for this kind of luxury. It’s a miracle when I have 2h per week to mine and haul. I think CiG has a duty to limit piracy.
If you only have two hours, weigh your options. do you want to haul in Pyro, a system that has little to no security for a player, or do you do it in Stanton where it is now safer. your much less likely to get pirated in Stanton now all of that sort of gameplay is in Pyro?
Yep, this has been a rude awakening for me but it seems what most PvP people want to do. People will say "I love being actually pirated!" (versus just be seal clubbed). But the third or fourth time of you losing hours of your time mining/salvaging/etc. to a pirate taking it all away, you are just going to quit. I'm not spending another hour trying to hire an escort, who might just rob me themselves. I don't play games to be a game loop for other players. There are too many great games out there to play instead.
@@loruth I guess, I haven't set foot in Pyro yet. But CiG is betting way too much on org gameplay. We don't all have the time.
@@LT_Dante Thats the thing with Orgs though. the more people you have the more people you get with the time to play longer. Personally im looking forward to Org based gameplay, as a member of a decent sized org i want to be able to chip in and help the org by hauling or gathering materials so they can build bases etc. and on the smaller scale myself and my girlfriend are going to set up a small farm outside the Orgs perimiter to grow food/keep space cows and set up a farm shop to supply the org with food. she only has an hour or so a night to play herself so were keeping that a smaller task.
There needs to be security patrol s in lawful systems
I had one day of great performance and gameplay but after that it has been a disaster.
Its more toxic than ever.
Yeah. My concern isn’t PVP or piracy, I welcome these. My concern is that cig have dumped a big brown smelly in the game and its breeding griefers and rather than creating deterrents they have slanted it so in their favour that it’s just going to breed more.
PVP are doing good job , making CIG do something with this shit they created and put out without thinking about consequences.
CGI said many times server FPS sucked because they didn't have enough servers dedicated to it and server meshing was going to drastically improve it.
KOS players hiding behind the PVP moniker is the issue. KOS try hards are nothing more then a cat chasing a laser very child like. Go play COD and leave Star Citizen for the adults.
you're not older just because you don't like pvp!(RP != PVP) You're the little kid who cries because the game allows you to play a style where you suck or too lazy to learn it! If I have valuable cargo or just don't want to lose my kit, I'll kill you when I see you if you get in my way! If you don't want that Stanton is all yours you'll never see me there again! But if you want military components for your Caterpillar you are looking for the conflict otherwise you don't need military components(or 80% of the ships) so it's good that they are lured behind PVP! But I will be happy to sell them to you even though you will never need them for PVE! And what a surprise CIG creates an economy for gamplay loops you don't want to play which is OK but not the PVE players alone decide how the game should look like! and neither Spectrum nor Reddit alone decides something like that!!!
Yeah that'll work... They could equally say to you, 'go play Elite Dangerous if you want safe space gameplay'.
KOS gameplay is legit because everyone and their ships are lootable/salvageable.
Sounds like you need to grow up yourself and accept the outcome of your decisions.
If you go to an unlawful system you can't expect safety. It just illogical to expect that.
@@fuselpeter5393 Triggered? lmao good. Cry harder.
Because chat seems to include all 500 or so people across a shard, it's weird seeing chat that a server or two in Stanton have had server errors while servers in Pyro remain all good at the same time.
I’ll ask the question again. Why do industrial ships have such poor deterrents? It’s this wierd rule that’s come out of nowhere or it’s been based on life on earth where there are loads of deterrents not to attack one like the police…
It’s simply because balance. It’s either fun, balanced, or realistic, or a mix of all three. It cannot be completely balanced and fun or realistic, so they take fun away to make it more “balanced” to make the sweats feel better and not cry when they can’t solo take down a reclaimer with a fighter.
Ships are attacked constantly in real life. Even with "police"/ Nato navy ships, there is a vast amount of area to cover. Just look at how many Somali pirates were paid off by big companies in the last year.
@ Single ships that aren’t part of massive industrial operations (like small crew ships in SC) provide their own security in real life. If you are a $1billion company, sure, throw money at the pirates. The smaller boats have to fight though.
@@nortynorts4156 exactly, they’re is a reason pirate choose ships that are poorly defended and not willing to fight back. CIG needs large ships poorly equipped to keep PVPers from pissing themselves when they can’t kill capital shops with a single heavy fighter.
@pheebs8451 The question of why don't industrial ships have better deterrents can also be answered by looking at real life shipping. Why don't they fit tankers with large guns, radar, 50 marines etc. Because they are trying to be as efficient as possible with the cost of the ship, to maximise profits.
I’ve played Pyro for about 12 hours total. I’ve been solo the whole time. The ONLY time I’ve been engaged in PvP is when I did the CZs.
I went to multiple outposts in my Carrack and explored them and saw multiple people each time fly down in their ships circle around my Carrack and then search around the town then land do whatever they were doing and fly off.
I recognize that there is a higher chance of things going south real fast in Pyro over Stanton, but I’ve yet to actually have a problem.
I think a lot of people have made up a horrible scenario of what Pyro is in their head and they have become afraid of that idea.
You are wrong, and you basically won the lottery with your Peaceful situation. Do not correlate winning the lotto with "oh this must be the reality for everyone else then"
Bingo. People get so worked up about hypothetical scenarios that "could" supposedly happen, but rarely ever do. But if it's "possible" for it to happen, they convince themselves that it WILL happen constantly. Then it just... doesn't, and things are basically fine. Every single time a new feature/change happens, this cycle repeats.
@@Azkr- lol imagine commenting “you are wrong” on the relating of an anecdote. At no point did I say this is everyone’s experience or that other’s experiences are fake.
I related my experience and said I think a lot of people have overblown what the situation in Pyro is.
Also winning the lottery would be if this happened once. This has happened dozens of times over multiple days and sessions. This is also a lot of other people’s experience as well. Now as I acknowledged in my first post the system does have the potential for bad things to happen quickly and that it could have happened to me. However Pyro so far, in my experience (and that experience has been somewhat corroborated by others), has not been the “kill everyone you see all the time no exceptions MadMax hellscape” that people in spectrum try to convince others it is.
More anecdotal evidence in support of my experience: ua-cam.com/video/Trv_DXeidvo/v-deo.htmlsi=yg7R9f0xkviFHOKF (Ray’s Guide)
Yes people don’t like to get ganked or griefed, but if you at least get security ships to respond to innocent people getting attacked like they do in Elite Dangerous. If different when they can get away with attacking and only getting a crime stat. Have help show up just like in real life. Make the pirate or ganker have to make the decision to stay or run.
These conversations are super important, even as a learning opportunity for those that dislike the piracy loop. It's always better to be aware and prepared!
I don't have time to find the exact location right now, but somewhere around the 20 minute Mark is where I would like to just say it comes down to cig setting the actual expectations. You know in game that pyro is dangerous and that you have to always be prepared for everything. When you go do missions you know and it's not just some tangible thing that people don't think about, but you have to always be thinking about what could go wrong at any given time when you're in pyro and have that be communicated clearly through in-game means.
We are supposed to have AI crew and/or blades. Hopefully that helps solo players
It’s adorable how yall keep talking about voip. First thing I do in every game is disable voip and sc is certainly no exception. There’s zero chance of many people ever using voip in this game.
Two things: murder hobos will die down as the launch fades, other people will come to pyro and provide protection, my org is doing a zero to hero fresh start but when we have the capital we plan to move operations to pyro and protect people in our AO
Piracy: As long as you realize that YOUR fun comes from imposing your preferred gameplay on someone else without asking, at the expense of THEIR currently preferred gameplay. That's what piracy is. In Pyro of course, all bets are off. Just by going there you sign up for that. The sad thing is though, that Stanton isn't really much better, because there is no consequence for the criminal yet, beyond afk'ing a bit at Klescher once in a blue moon. And even that is just another gameloop, not a deterrent.
I swear it, it's people's attitudes and expectations that ruin the experience for them more than half the time. Even I have to acknowledge it, and I think that is a healthy thing to realize. Take a step back, realize Star Citizen is a sandbox, and from time to time, you are going to experience getting sand kicked in your face. And that is by design.
im fine with open pvp in pyro but i really hope that its regulated enough that you can be 80-90% sure that you can exit your shit at an friendly outpost without getting shot at directlie, when you are in a ship you usually see whats comming when red marked ships aproach you but thats hard to say on foot right now
a legit pirate that turns up with interdiction and tryes to take your stuff is fine, i just feel like most of the time i and even org mates got attacked not just because someone whanted our stuff rather than someone had funn killing people
A lot of my problems in 4.0 was after the hot fix was patched into preview. Deleting shader files cleared most of it up. I think there were some issues created by high population too.
It would be cool if the mission rewards would scale with the danger of Pyro. Hauling missions for example should pay more in Pyro compared to Stanton.
To summarize: PVP dude that enjoys camping outpost the most doesn’t want PVE Servers, thinks people should get good and bring an escort. How shocking.
Nah
They are geriatric try Hards with nursing home reflexes that get their kicks out of destroying defenseless ships and thrive on the idea that they just destroyed that persons game experience
They also have the audacity to think the PvE players that they griefed should just respawn come back and become more content for them.
These griefers who couldnt get out of Bronze 5 in OW if their life depended on it, will ruin the Star Citizen experience and will repel the current and future legions of PvE players that could make SC an unmitigated success or whose absence; a catastrophic FAILURE.
@@evans9215 This is a direct quote from the show's transcript:
"so my favorite gameplay Loop is is probably camping Brio's breakyard on Stanton and waiting for somebody with a ship full of drugs to land and then you whack them and you steal all the drugs and you've been playing the game like this and then all of a sudden you're a billionaire I absolutely love this I cannot stress how how fun this is to me right it's it's the most degenerate rat gameplay the game has to offer"
@@gorganhorn6872
While I largely agree with you. I contend this is a CIG problem. If CIG fails to manage this dynamic, it will be CIG's fault the project fails.
Some boys never grow up, and some people never face their life's trauma to become a better person. That is just the way of the world and it outside the control of CIG and everyone else. CIG, can implement systems that mitigate that behavior and make it more fun for everyone, but will they....
THAT IS THE QUESTION..?
@gorganhorn6872 had someone start backstabbing on Phase 3, who then called us content for him to play with. It'll be nice once player reputation gets added for adding people for missions. That and prison time only counting in game time. Give a bit more weight to in game actions.
I believe that piracy will be griefing and Star Citizen will be a dark forest until death of a space man. So far there are no consequences and so I can't respect someone trying to steal my hard earned cargo. Once they're actually risking more than a couple hours of prison and a couple guns, I'll respect them and fight tooth and nail but if i lose, it'll be on me instead of somebody looking for a fight because there are no consequences if they die
Assuming that CIG can make AI challenging, I think NPC cargo could be really interesting for pirates. It seems very feasible to me that AI could carry cargos that are of a higher value or are rarer than your average player could transport with a strong/high risk escort. Rather than just making NPC cargo a filler whilst you wait for players, they could make it a "mini event".
I love GOOD let me repeat that, GOOD, piracy game play. As an industrial player I ave had the opportunity to experience both good and bad piracy. IMHO, flying in and blowing up my ship while i try to land at a station is not good game play but….wait don’t go off yet, fly in or interdict me in transit between places and actually soft death my ship, communicate with me with your intentions or what the cost is to pass through your space safely and we all have fun.
So others should play how you want them to instead of how they want to? Seems a bit self centered TBH.
@ Not what i said. I was stating what i have experienced, what i consider good game play. You do you and enjoy the game the way you want.
@@philfoster7235 [Murder Hobo Mode: Engaged]
Thanks for your approval!
Love how we're supposed to care what thieves think.
I get it, you're 'adding content', but you're still trying to steal something you didn't put time in for.
So my question remains. Why do care what thieves think or want?
Apparently CIG does. But I agree with you, I'm not going to be a game loop for someone else.
They are an important part of the game and it is hard work putting together a skilled and effective pirate crew this is why Chris Roberts himself plans to play as a pirate and why they call him the Dread Pirate Roberts.
@@rooster1012 LOL, no. You have that backwards. Not once has a miner or a hauler needed a thief to come rob them in order to complete a job.
It's the other way around. Lawless players need lawful players. We don't need you for our gameplay loops. You need us.
@checkfortunnels wrong. This is how exactly how pirates become murder hobos. If you do not have goods to pirate you are target practice if I feel like it.
They put the effort to steal it. That's the basics of piracy in the game.
my missions weren't working till i jumped into pyro an i've been loving my time there now
Hey guys. I am only about half way through this video, but I think you are missing a lot of topics. 1) while voiDude takes a thrill out of challenging encounters with other people, not everyone feels this way. For me it really depends on my own mood, but if I just want to wind down from a long day, I feel disturbed by such encounters. This also clearly ties in to 2) the issue that the game completely lacks giving you any awareness of your surroundings. Hundreds of stranded ships everywhere don’t tell you if a player could still be around, sometimes the game does not even show you what you have locked on, sometimes it could be a very easy to fight off NPC or a skilled player. Also if there is a player around, you will only learn about their intentions when you are dead. There is often not enough time to react. Actions like equipping a gun or enabling it must flag players red, to give the other side a chance to react. This then finally lines up with 3) there is no reason at all to not kill that other player. If you do so, you may get their loot, ship, cargo, etc. If you leave them alive, they might shoot first and kill you. Kills must be tough decisions in this game with incredible hefty penalities, that cannot be easily hacked off by a usb stick. Until the game delivers and respects these 3 points, it will be really hard to not see this game as space CoD.
My favorite pirate, being able to pirate npc's would be fun especially if they have good loot not just cargo
A lot of systems CIG is developing is suppose to bring things to a balance for PvP, such as the new social app which lets you find groups make allies, etc. Then you have rep which if you're an ally of a faction, then getting attacked by a player when you're surrounded by your ally NPCs, that player should get wrecked. These are things that will change the experience greatly and right now ppl are complaining about a half baked game. It'll eventually get there but you gotta understand the experience today will not be the 1.0 experience. You're just part of the process of getting there.
My experience of Pyro is:
8pm log on
Spend 4 hours:
- Going back and forward from hanger to lobby trying to spawn my bugged ship
- Not appearing and disappearing bugged bounty missions
- Trying to deal with missing bugged jump locations
- When i do reach a location, enemy is bugged and not spawning
- Switching servers to try and find a more working, stable experience
Eventually getting annoyed and giving up
Last night I literally spent 4 hours on a single mission I stole a ship full of stims, I was delighted with my heist. Warping back to base to offload my score and obviously my ship and cargo randomly despawned mid warp and left me with nothing floating in space wasting yet another night.
The current state of Star Citizen is only for Masochists who like to inflict pain on themselves.
Star citizen feels like a game now.
(When it’s working) keep up the good work CIG
I'll never forget the bug that made me drop Star Citizen for a couple years. The god damn cockpit bug. Where it would just randomly open your cockpit while flying, dogfighting, whatever and wherever.
Stanton is for the Carebear family and Pyro is No-Heart's Lair
This whole "if you could pirate NPCs" question already has an answer because a lot of npc kill mission targets spawn with valuable cargo. It's actually a great way to make money. But at the end of the day, PvPers make money in PvE to fund their PvP activities. To add some structure and limits to that, reputation needs to really, really matter.
The introduction of the Pyro system in Star Citizen brings immense potential but also significant risks to gameplay balance. Piracy and toxic behavior from some players undermine the idea of building an ecosystem where independent pilots can provide resources and establish businesses. Instead, large orgs, with the means to defend themselves and monopolize resources, will dominate Pyro. This will create a closed system, enriching the few and denying the broader player base the opportunity to explore Pyro's potential.
As a result, smaller players and organizations will avoid Pyro, retreating to Stanton or other safer systems. This imbalance could cripple Pyro's economy, leaving pirates to mine their own resources and act as traders themselves. If this happens, Pyro becomes a barren wasteland for most players while Stanton thrives as a trade hub with cheap resources.
To address this, CIG might eventually implement stricter PvP moderation systems to ensure fairness, but this feels like a reactive fix rather than proactive community management. It’s clear: giving absolute freedom often leads to chaos. Some players use this freedom to ruin the experience for others, creating a toxic environment.
As a community, we need to take responsibility and establish rules and systems within Pyro to curb toxic behavior and ensure the best possible gameplay experience. This means creating safe zones, cooperating to protect players providing essential services, and taking action against griefers. Pirates, too, should understand the value of fair deals-charging reasonable rates to keep traders, miners, and repair crews in the system. Without collaboration, Pyro's economy will collapse.
Griefers-those who disrupt gameplay purely for their own enjoyment-should face real consequences. Bounty systems, public lists of disruptive players, and community-enforced justice could help create balance. If necessary, Pyro can become a player-driven region with its own "laws" to preserve fairness and ensure that the system thrives.
Ultimately, we all want Star Citizen to succeed, and that requires building a community where cooperation, roleplay, and fair competition thrive. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil the galaxy for everyone.
I hope one day we can still host private servers in the future. I'll get to enjoy Pyro when I'm hosting my own server. My real first new system will be Castra. You hit the nail on the head. Whenever you give players free reign they will ruin the experience of other players every time. You also nailed it on the dream they sold was living a space fantasy that we've seen in movies, tv shows, other games, and media. The dream they sold for a decade got delayed or outright deleted at Citizencon and all the messaging since then. It went from this epic awesome game where you could live your space fantasy. To Ark Space evolved, Conan Spacemans, SRising, StarZ. 1.0 is going to be every generic survival game shelved in our steam libraries instead of the dream they sold....
The murder hobos, PvPers, Griefers, and huge orgs get everything they wanted. All the cake they can eat. The majority of the players who funded this game get nothing that they excitedly backed for. Until some nebulous time in the future, maybe, possibly. Not at all?
Towards the end you made a point that is entirely inaccurate. Paraphrasing but "PvE players play against the computer to win because it is winnable." "PvP players want the challenge." Those are two very inaccurate statements. Not all PvE games are designed to allow you to win. They are designed to provide an appropriate challenge that fits within a guidelines where it is possible to win with the player and AI parties playing by the same rules (or faked on the ai side to save on processing with reactive appropriate measures). It is possible to win. It is also possible to lose. Providing a challenge.
PvP players almost never want a fair fight. The most fun a PvP player can have is when they stomp on people wholesale. As a 6 star Hunt player the biggest draw is those times where we have a good fight but still slaughter multiple teams. I actively try to down rank by running bad or sometimes no weapons at all because 6 star lobbies are boring, harder, with too many cheaters on the top end. The best fights happen in 4 and 5 star lobbies. I don't want to fight that legit 2 star because that isn't a fair fight. But slaughtering them in the moment before knowing their ranking is where the "fun" lands but at least the game respects your time, everyone is there for the same reason. Star Citizen has too much of a time sink. Is meant to originally be an immersive simulation. Instead its just full of those PvPers looking to club those baby seals who aren't there for the PvP.
"Violent Criminal" is literally the most fleshed out career in the game according to the CitCon "Careers" slides. What does that tell you?
I feel like the murder hobo-ing will cool off a bit as the patch goes on, but yeah - Pyro's dangerous. With the player counts up, players need to have situational awareness. In a system like Stanton, now that Pyro exists and criminal players have a place to go and do stuff, the consequences for anti-social actions should be very swift and very punishing: long prison sentences, overwhelming NPC forces, etc - and the opposite should be true in Pyro. About the only thing that's missing in Pyro is the gangs cracking down on actions that would hurt their livelihood (ie. someone sitting off a station and just ganking everyone who tries to leave)
Despite the implied condemnation of KOS, unrestricted PVP will absolutely devolve into that almost every time you have a balanced encounter, if you stop and think about it for more than 5 seconds. Let's assume you don't want to kill that player over there because you don't need his stuff, but guess what? You don't know if he "needs" your stuff, so unless you want to become a victim, the smart play is to take out everyone you see before they do the same to you. The only time you wont have 'shoot first ask questions later' is when both sides don't need anything from the other AND each side also makes the same bad decision to trust the other. The only exception is when you have the numbers needed to be certain of your victory AND it is also obvious to the other player or smaller group that they will lose if they attack. Only then can you afford to be magnanimous and let them go. But what if they are spies sent to scope out your team? or just the advance team sent to distract you? Too late, while you were being friendly, their real friends got the drop on you from behind and now you are in a cross fire. So you tell yourself, next time will be different, it has to be shoot first. Its the only way to be sure.
This was a great talk
It's not all over the place, the player experience degrades as more people log on. I set my clock for 2 am on Sunday and the server was friggin cherry. Missions worked, 30 fps were steady, elevators/qt worked flawlessly. By noon, nothing worked and the game crashed so much it was unplayable. I wish CIG would just work on the shit we already have versus adding new problems into this broken game.
28:00 for the last 8 minutes and after this
Yes, SC is a game that will introduce to you thinking about systems. Voidude is describing the kind of player that doesn't yet understand that there are individuals and there are systems. The systems will let you do whatever, but other individuals may not and its a rude awakening to this reality when it happens to someone.
It is also why so many people can't stand talking about politics in real life. But it doesnt matter, the systems in real life will get you none the less if you arent paying attention
I feel like none of you guys understand pve gameplay.
Do you play any other PVE games?
I'll be honest if someone killed me and stole 36 million credits worth of stuff from me. I'd probably never play the game again. I dont play in a way to ever have that much risk but even if i lost 2 million worth of cargo, which is usually pretty low risk id probably not play again for months. Yes i might only be in 10-15% of the playerbase thats like this but the game cant afford to lose that many players.
A truly lawless system wouldn't have trade or industry, because no one would bother to build the infrastructure to support it. If someone did build or maintain that infrastructure (like local gangs) they would bring their own laws and protections to their locations, so customers of theirs would feel comfortable in coming and doing business with them. There are only 2 ways to secure your business, either through force or obscurity. Obscurity is not going to work if you expect traders to find your station or outpost, to trade at. That works fine for a one on one, one time, drug deal, but it wouldn't work for general trade. Right now, when you show up to a Pyro outpost, to buy or sell something, and someone attacks you, they are not only attacking you, but they are inhibiting trade for whomever controls that outpost. In other words, they are attacking the local gang. Seemingly, that should only have to happen a couple of times, before that local gang sent security to that outpost and put up a buncha turrets. Otherwise, no one is going to go there anymore. These are the real world type things that need to be taken into consideration, when planning both game play and economy, in Star Citizen.
We are in server mesh now so I saw people last night in chat saying that the Microtech server went "Server Error" then recovered, meanwhile everyone at Arccorp is humming along just fine. Its wild!
I had no issues friday and saturday morning. Saturday night and sunday I was trapped in Pyro Station since couldn't get any ship and also Chat was off (i don't care that much about chat).
And contracts not showing...
But yeah, it was playing better than any time since I started to play the game in 2022
2 of my fav SC streamers!! Looking forward to some rotten tomatoes game play with VD 🎉🍅🏴☠️
In the future I anticipate large orgs will control sections of Pyro. There will be turf wars for sure. But I also see how players can be granted access with protection with a price.
It absolutely is a CIG problem. And in classic fashion they dont want to or know how to manage it.
They need Tony Z's Quantum NPC simulation. I assert that without it the entire project will fail. Right now is the time to implement it and have NPCs capable of defending their own outposts. This also brings NPCs to those outposts to be pirated by players; statistically reducing the number of random PvP encounters. Otherwise they might as well remove all NPCs and rebrand it as Battle Feild in space.
Once voip and hailing other ships works i think a lot of things in pyro will be more interesting. I want to talk and negotiate with people not just shoot on sight. Im ok with pvp i just hope there is some communication between players.
voiDude is right on the Money. Because Pyro has always been marketed as a PVP area, I have zero intention of ever spending any time there. I loath PVP in any and all games. I'm invested in Star Citizen for the co-op multiplayer experience, not a PVP experience. The fact that CIG keeps talking about how they intend to focus on polishing Pyro while Stanton is completely broken still really worries me. CIG keeps moving on to the next shiny new thing and abandoning everything behind them. Focus on the existing ships instead of pumping out new ships. Fix the existing locations before adding new locations. Space Tomato mentioned the Star Map. That's been broken for YEARS. The website has never worked on mobile phones.
The irony of the whole PvE server idea is that your still not safe because people who want to hurt carebears or rage bait can just ship ram you, waste your time, and you cant shoot back because guess what that gets you a crime stat or hurts your rep.
I do hope once bounty hunting comes in there will be player bounty missions to give trade ships a bit more retaliatory action aside from run away.
PVP and PVE players environment should not be mixed. SC Should be more CoOp by default with option of PVP when players agree or factions disputes or specific bounty missions or specific systems. Pyro should be PVP by default and Stanton PVP should not be allowed unless im toggled to do so, only NPC enemies.
iI had no idea who VoiD was until he said voidyvidz and then I realize that I am already subscribed lol
while there are issues, I can say without compromise. The issues are no different than 3.24 or my expectation of SC. I have been able to play 4.0 the same as I would in 3.24. My biggest surprise is that my framerate is consistently about 40 now and outside of landing zones at 60. So baring the issue of missions, I have no probably with 4.0. I have yet to make it to Pyro. I need some reserve cash incase I befall an unfortunate accident by other players. Later.
A wise man once said that every good ship has a name. What’s this ships name voiDude???
Human food bars in Pyro? Soylent Green?
CIG needs to roll out a proper bounty hunting and laws system. Unfortunately they aren’t talking about this at all. Pyro is suppose to be lawless governed by NPC gangs and players. There are no mechanics in the game to do this. There is no way to put bounties on players head, there are no rep mechanics, there is no NPC gang factions that enforce their rules in their domain. Heck even the UEE can’t even protect the jump pint which is suppose to be monitored and under their protection.
I thionk the Star was galaxy PVP system is perfect for SC. You want to be PVP all the time, you can make that possible in your settings.
Pyro will be fine once the rep actualy works and the AI factions give you a little bit of protection and there are negative affects for attackers.
I cant even get in the game error 30018 infinite loading. Tried everything and nothing.
I fear that Pyro will only attract already established pvp "enthusiasts", pve players and most importantly NEW backers will probably not be too interested in that kind of setup
Was it back in 3.19 or 3.20 when there was a lot of complaining about pirates as well? Pyro is the new shining toy, and there has been less missions do in Stanton than normal. Soon, the newness will wear off, and people will learn strategies while being there. If there is a lot of pirate players, then there will be a lot to to for the PvPers that prefers to be on the pirate hunter side.
I'm mainly a solo player that's mostly do industrial or hauling game-play. I really don't have a problem with the risk of being attacked, as long as I can mitigate that risk. SC is already huge, Step one to pirate someone is after all to find a target. Having to go through a choke-point or going for high value cargo? Those are after all not mandatory, and if I want to do it solo, then I just have to roll the dice. However, with the option of being in several orgs, I would be surprised if there isn't already "solo orgs" for very temporary groups, which could be used for a convoy through the wormhole, only to disband the group the second everybody is safe on the other side.
Yes, future mechanics will make it better. Reputation will probably make piracy a bit more costly. Death having a cost in itself will on the other hand add an extra cost to using self-destruct, and might make extortion a more viable pirate tactic.
At least viody isn't griefing and just wanting your stuff, i can respect that nothing more nothing less.
PvP does not equal piracy, I think everyone would prefer to have pirates than the murderhobos we currently have to put up with
We need to ADAPT!!
Voidy going on about reputation like it's going to make any difference. Even assuming there are Consequences (tm) CIG has no choice but to make any amount of bad rep with any faction something you can fix, so at worst it will just be a minor speedbump.
43:00 You will never get that challenge because there is no point for me to take that risk.
I mean... we don't really even have a game yet, so speculation is hard. However, my concern is that CIG has created a problem by selling everything. Ships, (especially ships) weapons, armor etc. So, in the end, what progression is going to motivate us to play? If modern gaming has taught us anything, it's that gamers stay engaged with their games more frequently, IF there's something to work towards. My hope is that there will be rewards, again, ships (especially ships), weapons etc., that can ONLY be attained by playing the game, and running through progression. And that there's a path for both types of players to the same reward, meaning both PvP and PvE. Because are we really going to be motivated simply by UEC? I doubt it. There is SO MUCH that CIG has to get into this game to keep players occupied, and they so very far away from creating these game experiences, whether it's meaningful missions, crafting, base building, exploration, etc. Fingers crossed, but they have to keep us engaged, and as much as I enjoy turning off my brain just mining or salvaging or even npc bounties... we need depth, reasons to keep showing up. My final take is... meaning gameplay, with meaningful rewards, will only enhance both sides of the PvP/PvE debate, regardless of the system we're flying around in.
Great talk Tomato! I mean, this one was a bit more ludicrous than your others... but, we know why that is! 😂
The progression will be through the following:
Narrative campaign, org wars, raiding bases, building bases, org space stations, end game content like raids, upgrading ships and components (all bought ships start as the lowest tier), just playing the game for fun, survival due to death of.a spaceman, and even more.
voiDude doesnt understand players that dont want pvp, thats okay its hard to understand people who have very different opinions on something so subjective. StarCitizen is so fun even for solo pve only players that it could be single player and we would still put hundreds of hours into what the game has currently (assuming it actually worked as intended) counterboarding a purate isn't something i ever want to have to do. It just makes me have less fun. I enjoy pvp but only when i want to do pvp its that simple if im not looking for a fight it doesn't matter if im doing a "high risk" activity i just dont want to engage in pvp.
Putting most of the servers in Pyro was a terrible idea. I get the intent... to "nudge" people into going there to love PvP. That's why they had the most return and unique loot. However, from what In can see most people are still PvE and want to play in "safer" Stanton. Yet those servers are overloaded. I think this explains why most of the streamers (who went to Pyro) are having very good performance and most players (in Stanton) are having very bad experiences on overloaded servers. CIG is out of step here with most of the community, which is casual PvE. But, it makes sense that the "core" are low-risk combat roles. in a buggy "alpha" it's grab what you can, so combat takes little time, no investment, and pays off instantly. There's no long-term or risky part to the investment like there is in mining or hauling. That small group is very vocal making CIG thing they are the majority, and they are a higher proportion in buggy patches when the PvE casuals "sit it out" until it gets more stable. Right now it's not as relevant because it's still an "alpha" and they aren't depending on regular gamers to keep the game going... but if they ever get out of "testing" then they'll need that long-term casual PvE majority to sustain it with other gameloops. Plus as other people have said, the "PvP' is not realistic at all. "Lawless" doesn't mean "defenseless." Gangs defend territory, and attacking one gang will curry favor with the other gang, supposedly gaining you some "protection." Until that rep system is fully in game, (especially the negative side to it of being shot on site by those you have very low rep with or crime stats) it really is just random chaos and griefer central. They've remove what little balance they had on it, so predictably it's blown up in their face... again. CIG doesn't tend to do things gradually or slowly. They seem to like to totally keep breaking things instead of trying to tweak them to learn how to balance. (Like the shields, quantum, economic system, etc)
Stanton isn't really a starting location game wise. You really need to start a game like this in a "safe zone". There is so much to learn before you have any idea how to deal with players.
We may see that in the future if they ever deliver the new security and reputation system. You may pirate in safe systems but know the navy will be there. The map with safety zones shown at CitizenCon.
I have not quantum into the sun yet, it has tried and aligned. I did how ever qt in to Microtech
Voidy seems like a nice chap but I do find his type of gameplay a bit toxic. Nice to see the guy behind the persona. I guess that helps make it feel less personal if you're on the receiving end of one of his emergent gameplay sessions :-)
It's a mixed experience definitely. Performance is nice, Pyro looks great, so many good things in 4.0.
And then you try to enter, and first time you get the frontend first spawn error, loging in has a queue, you can still fall through floors, hangars keep bugging out and having double doors... and the list keeps going.
I've been on for hours the past few days and only had a few issues.
@@brianchristopher8843 Me too, extent of my bugs list is QT bug, contracts not showing up bar a few, and a couple relocations that felt a bit cheap. Apart from that, smoothest the game has ever performed for me
@pxkqd I've had the worst experience since 3.18. Seems pretty luck of the draw. Actually I liked 3.18 better because I just quit but this makes me want to play and be miserable.
Also Viody is the best. Love that guy funiest SC video content in my opinion...also please dont kill me im a handsome viewer 😂
You know why those experiences are your top 5? It’s because it rarely happens cause people suck and will ruin the game. There will be many groups that just go around and destroy people for no reason and they will be a majority of pirates not a minority of them.
I will absolutely stop my ship and let a pirate board. Then, ill hit the self destruct button and lock us all in. 😂
I made my home im Pyro but I went to orison last night and Holy. I crashed every 5 minutes.but in Pyro I could play for hours no problem
The thing to understand about Eve is the developers didn't do anything, the player base ruled itself. You had high security regions medium security regions and no security reg ions and that was just the way that it was. Humans are mean and nasty without civilized society to keep them in check they do what they want.
Yep. To expound on that a little more. Humans always gravitate to law.. Any large group will develop the because of that. tribes form and generate law. i.e. Pyro gangs, factions and reputation are key to solving this. SC is not EVE. nor should it be. They want vastly more players than EVE. This is not a purely player governed universe. It's an NPC ruled universe with players having some impact but not wholly player controller. That is not what most people signed up for.
2 months to come good game play again and yes next year is time to deliver.
I've been interdicted more time by NPC's than players , I was doing the phase 1 taking the cargo back lol in an Connie so I just went for the mantis once that was gone I turned around and jumped out lol but if players was there oooh that scary but that PVP is what makes SC good not knowing if your going to get jumped or not . taking that different rout . hang back and see if its safe. I for 1 will stick to the Law and I wont shoot first but I will fight back your not having my cargo for nothing . now the ships not blowing up straight away will make it I just hope I remember to bring a gun and a repair tool.
Ran great to start then the last hotfix killed it for me with no contracts available