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Meso is a description of an object. Same or identical compounds is a description of a relationship. Like for instance, if we have two boys, the relationship might be siblings, boyfriends, teammates, etc. But each might have their own description, like one is blond and another one has dark eyes. Just like you cannot say that the relationship between two guys is "blond" you cannot say that two molecules are meso to each other as "meso" is the description of the molecule itself.
Hi! The concept of inversion axis is new to me. May I ask for some references regarding this. I tried browsing through my organic chemistry books now and all of them mention plane of symmetry as the requirement and no counterexamples to the rule. I also tried searching online but the only relevant was wikipedia but it leads me to group theory (im still at beginners level ochem). Thank you for the video! Got to learn something new from an old topic ❤️
The problem here is that the group theory *is* the reference and there's no simple way around it. That's why I said in the video that I don't wanna bore you with those details as they are really technical. The plane of symmetry "requirement" is an oversimplification which is often but not *always* true for meso compounds. Even in one of my earlier video I said that all meso compounds have plane of symmetry, which is not true as I've demonstrated in this video. Coming back to references, in chemistry, you'll find this info in dedicated stereochemistry books and, surprisingly or not, in advanced spectroscopy books, unless, of course, you wanna dive into the mathematics and the group theory in its pure form. But definitely not in the undergrad level texts.
@@VictortheOrganicChemistryTutor Thank you for the response! I'll try to check on these in my university library. It's neat to know that there's still a lot of things than can be unpacked from a seemingly simple concept. On another note, I really found the rotations a very good framework in answering whether compounds are superimposable with each other 😵💫 HAHA I still have a hard time imagining organic compounds in 3D in my head.
3D is notoriously hard! I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and have a better than average spacial ability (actually tested in a controlled setting lol) but I don't shy away from drawing a molecule or making a model with a molecular model kit when it comes to more complex examples. I literally have a heap of molecules (models) on my desk all the time 'coz I often need to grab one to illustrate something to for students. I've recently made a short about a tricyclic spiro compound after I posted it on my twitter and other platforms. That example tripped up even pros! So, give it some time and it'll become easier with experience.
Please, like, share, and comment to help promote this video!
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You saved my organic chem grade! Thank you so much!
You are so welcome! Glad my videos helped!
Oh my gosh this was so understandable thank you !!
I aim to make confusing topics as clear as mud!
This is education. Thank you
Great video
Examples were helpful. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Need help understanding difference between meso and identical compounds
Meso is a description of an object. Same or identical compounds is a description of a relationship.
Like for instance, if we have two boys, the relationship might be siblings, boyfriends, teammates, etc. But each might have their own description, like one is blond and another one has dark eyes. Just like you cannot say that the relationship between two guys is "blond" you cannot say that two molecules are meso to each other as "meso" is the description of the molecule itself.
Hi! The concept of inversion axis is new to me. May I ask for some references regarding this. I tried browsing through my organic chemistry books now and all of them mention plane of symmetry as the requirement and no counterexamples to the rule. I also tried searching online but the only relevant was wikipedia but it leads me to group theory (im still at beginners level ochem). Thank you for the video! Got to learn something new from an old topic ❤️
The problem here is that the group theory *is* the reference and there's no simple way around it. That's why I said in the video that I don't wanna bore you with those details as they are really technical.
The plane of symmetry "requirement" is an oversimplification which is often but not *always* true for meso compounds. Even in one of my earlier video I said that all meso compounds have plane of symmetry, which is not true as I've demonstrated in this video.
Coming back to references, in chemistry, you'll find this info in dedicated stereochemistry books and, surprisingly or not, in advanced spectroscopy books, unless, of course, you wanna dive into the mathematics and the group theory in its pure form. But definitely not in the undergrad level texts.
@@VictortheOrganicChemistryTutor Thank you for the response! I'll try to check on these in my university library. It's neat to know that there's still a lot of things than can be unpacked from a seemingly simple concept. On another note, I really found the rotations a very good framework in answering whether compounds are superimposable with each other 😵💫 HAHA I still have a hard time imagining organic compounds in 3D in my head.
3D is notoriously hard! I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and have a better than average spacial ability (actually tested in a controlled setting lol) but I don't shy away from drawing a molecule or making a model with a molecular model kit when it comes to more complex examples. I literally have a heap of molecules (models) on my desk all the time 'coz I often need to grab one to illustrate something to for students. I've recently made a short about a tricyclic spiro compound after I posted it on my twitter and other platforms. That example tripped up even pros! So, give it some time and it'll become easier with experience.