If I had to shorten this entire series into three quotes it would be 1."Oh this is really bad" 2."Wait this might be really good" 3."(assorted Grant cackles)"
Reaver is definitely at its best when it's devouring enemy units instantaneously. Morphing it into the inferior Butterfleaver is the price to pay to make sure the units don't come back. :V
It also gets too fat and slow once maxed it looks like. So it is a bit of a diminishing usefulness. Probably still perfect for defense though, other than hybrid being immune
I might be wrong but at 4:01 to 4:03 you can see the Zealot inside the VANguard healing from Orange to Yellow Health State so maybe it heals the units HP inside slowly
However, the red health stalker is already loaded into apc at 7:48, however it is still red at 8:22. If it does heal it heals veeeeeery slowly. Or does it heal only zealots? We need to make Grant test it
Mission: defend the massive building in the middle or u die Grant: *doesn't make any static defense and barely puts any unit to defend* Zerg: *sends tons of stuff to atk building* Grant: y is this so hard
yeah static d is le garbage Garnt didn't have any problems with the regular Zuuurg attacks(apart from being -out of touch- out of place), it was the Hybrid seriously though, even one hybrid reaver can clear through tens of cannons+batteries no problem and no Khaydarin -Amulets- Monoliths cos they cost gas
The thing about static defense, though, is that it's never out of place. Provided it's built on the central mission objective. And it doesn't need to win, it just has to buy time. Another LPer remarked it was sometimes handy to "have defenses I can't accidentally move away."
@@RoyalFusilier walling is straigh up better simply because you're not wasting your money on some 150 mineral-each punching bags you're wasting it on tankier, same 150?each production/air upgrades(cos 100 more health for the cyber core) that serve as punching bags the static d is underwhelming because you could have had the same amount of money in your army = better engagements = less losses = more recources to spend instead of having a 1500 minerals or even a 800 minerals safeguard sitting at the base
@@The-jy3yq it doesn’t matter how underwhelming the static defense is. It would delay the wave, that’s the point. Static defense isn’t strong, that’s a fact, but when the alternative is a roaming army that isn’t going to get back in time to stop a loss, investing money into something that lets your army get there in time is worth it. Your argument of using tanker production buildings has merit if not for one thing: target priority. Objectives tend to have a higher priority than production. If they’re in the way, they will tank sure. But otherwise the objective will always die first, and you also have to consider that production buildings are bigger and will block units they produce from getting out if too tightly packed. Static defense is not as useless as far too many people seem to think.
"The damage isn't very high with these Darth Archons, but because they hit a bunch of stuff at once, that's pretty good." Destroyer: Am I a joke to you?
Darth Archon: hits 6+ enemies at once instantly. Destroyer: takes a full second firing on an enemy to turn on a second hit, any interruption including the target dying resets them down to 1 enemy hit. Not quite the same.
You can only build 1, but it provides 2, One to embody the Power and the other to Crave it. Whenever 1 dies, the other can recruit an apprentice to replace it.
Oooh, what if it can't die and whenever one dies, the other inherits the strength, but when they both die, it spawns two new ones. Sounds pretty OP, but if it's not that strong, you'd just get endlessly killed and respawned forever and accomplish nothing if you tried to use just the two darth archons. Also, the weaker one just wouldn't do much damage. I even think the 2 damage on 0.2 attack speed is fine, though maybe 4 damage on 0.4 attack speed would be better to avoid doing too little damage due to armor.
@@pierre-mariecaulliez6285 So... Carbot edition when? Seriously though, there is an entire mod built in SC2. That means there’s (probably) some way to access those sprites and implement them into the custom campaign runner. And if Carbot is up for it, having cartooned map textures would be awesome.
Butterfleaver seems exactly like the brood lord and the reaver. slow pushing seige unit. And this mission is all about blitzkrieg, not slow pushing, so trying out a brand new slow pushing unit on it is terrible. Van guards looked to be very good in this mission, but only so long as you have a frontline with them for support, otherwise they die off real fast. A lot like siege tanks. Except both worse and better in different ways.
@@AvianArmada Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't build defenses to stop yourself from losing the mission. He tried using only units to defend the core, that didn't work, and then he proceeded to just leave the core completely empty and undefended. Even if you want to argue "He doesn't want to kill anything without the fun units", nothing stopped him from building a thick Nexus wall to delay any attacks long enough for him to get units over.
@@chuckmanion1128 I feel like Monoliths are already a meme... If you aren't manually targeting them, they never fire until the wave's already mostly dead because they keep aiming at the Zerglings/Zealots in front, and ignore the Guardians/Carriers behind
High templar: in the name of the galactic conclave of the daelam you are under arrest Darth archon: are you threatening me master templar High templar: the conclave will decide your fate Darth archon: i am the conclave High templar: not yet Darth archon: its treason then
Please read the tool tips earlier. As soon as you think you have an idea of what it is doing, check the tool tips and confirm it. It will make it more enjoyable to watch if you spend the majority of the mission understanding what the unit does instead of being completely blind for the whole mission until (maybe) the very end. I really like this mod quite a bit, but not reading the tool tips until the very end is frustrating.
with Butterfleaver it could be cool if it launched scarablings, shiny blue broodlings that detonate like a scarab on death, and sort of behave like the zagara broodlord concept of Mestrophis by having the scarablings float alongside the Butterfleaver instead of stored within it. And could drop them all at once. That would match up the one shot almost everything factor they loose in the upgrade
How about giving Darth Archo an Oracle like attack. It is a force lightning, so it would only be fair if it counts as spell damage. That would solve the problem of it not dealing damage.
The cybernetics core uses the blacksmith audio from wc3. I thought I heard it somewhere in an earlier episode lol but I'm sure of it now Edit: my b, lumber mill
Not the Blacksmith - the human Lumber Mill On the side note, the Templar(MLG) Archives have the Warcraft 1 and 2 Church's sound and the Dank Shrine(Moder Warfare 2) has the Temple of the Damned(WC2) sound A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
@@anonimus370 Ground troop transports are only good if they are either very fast and cheap (flak track in RA2) or if they have fireports so they work as mobile bunkers. Otherwise they range from liability to situational (like using Siege Towers to carry Teutonic Knights in AoE)
* Looks at Darth Archon * Spiked bone ridges under the skin Glowing red eyes Shoots red lightning Product of a horrific transformation Clearly these aren't Sith, they're Voidbringers.
I feel like the butterfleaver is a necessity to prevent the caterpillars from becoming a huge liability when they've consumed like 50 supply of enemy units, given that it would unleash those in the middle of your army if it died
In all of the Dawn of War games ground transports are pretty solid, granted that's because there's no air alternative and they're made to be solid units on their own, I guess the problem just comes down to poor design choices, of course you're not supposed to have the APC and it only turns up early game so that's probably why it's so bad :b
The vanguard is just a better stuckov tank. And stuckovs tanks are already some of the best tanks in the game. Shock divisions are stronger 1v1, but they effectively cost way more because mengsk.
Ground transports are so bad in RTS you say? C&C begs to differ. Just as a transport, transport engineer base capture cheese is a somewhat significant thing in most of the games in the series. This is because the transport vehicles are significantly faster and quite a bit tougher (also immune to dogs etc) than infantry. The benefit over air transport here is that if the vehicle is destroyed, the infantry survives, whereas air would result in total loss of life. And, of course, there are the multi gunner/mobile fortress variants where the units do, in fact, shoot out (sort of). But I don't really consider these transports when used as such. AoE2 ram is also sort of a thing. You can "transport" some guards with your ram, to defend it against enemy melee attackers. The guards will be safe from ranged attack while inside (cause ram is highly resistant to ranged attack) and provide the ram with a speed and attack bonus to boot. It's not really meant to be a transport but sort of works. There are a number of reasons why SC2 ground transport is bad. The first is because the only ones that exist are slow and fragile. There is no room for slow ground transport unless it's super tough. Second, there are chokes on most maps, which make ground unit movement restricted in general and thus prevent most potential cheese. This is in turn due to the fact that a lot of ground units are pretty mobile already, which allows them to cheese on their own if not countered against, which further diminishes the value of transport. And finally, the air transports are above par, compared to most other RTS. To put it in context of SC2, just imagine if you have access to both vulture and baneling and your vulture can transport baneling(and the death of the hellion make them pop out as opposed to die) AND the map have no choke. Now I think you see how ground transport can be strong with the right environment. So no, it's not all RTS. It depend heavily on the overall game design. SC2 never took ground transport into consideration and so they suck.
There's also the fact that SC2 has very low TTK across the board. A tanky unit in SC2 is still likely to die in seconds under fire, which doesn't work well with the idea of ground transports
If I might add to that list: In dawn of war 1 and 2transports are also really good. The imperial guard chimera is probably one of the best units in the entire game and really provides a lot for your army. Same goes for the space marine rhinos and the ork trucks.
@@honourabledoctoredwinmoria3126 The only thing I know for sure are the APC and its variants. There are a number of things listed under Terran ground transport on the wiki, but I'm not certain they all have in game units or if some are just stuff in novels and even the stuff in game, like trains, might not actually have the transport ability. But anyway, APC is just a bad example of a ground transport, other games where ground transport is actually designed for end up with them being viable. So Grant's blanket statement isn't quite right.
There was an awesome ground carrier unit in red alert 2 yuris revenge exanspion. People could shoot out and it could roll over enemy vehices and destroy them that way. Great stuff.
Ironically, the reavee may be pretty OP against ground units when it stays a caterpillar and you support it with something else that has anti-air and can damage units the reaver can't eat. It also has more than double the hp and shields of the butterfleaver once it maxes out.
Butterfly is actually good if you can mass them up. Eating is extremally efficient in getting rid of enemy units, like ultralisks, and you pay for them only once. It;s mechanics are overlapping with Archoooon, though. I'd leave Archooons at level 9, to make use of their shields, and combo them with tall zealots. Maybe a couple of corsairs/mirages
Unfortunately he doesn't say "My name is Van, I'm 30 years old... I'm a performance artist". That surely adds a new meaning in to... loading the cargo.
Just get the attack upgrade already, Darth Archons attack multiple times and insanely fast, there is literally no other unit that benefits more from attack upgrades.
I'll admit, I was a tad disappointed when the Reaver didn't transform into a Nydus worm and expel a small army of Terran infantry in honor of Jayborino's "entire human race in a worm" comment/meme.
19:12 - what does Fenix doing there? O.o Wait, no - why there are multiple Fenix and Karax there? O.O @GiantGrantGames Archives ! You missed very important thing during cutscene, I think!
Always 2 there are. The master and the apprentice. FORCE there to only be 2 Darth Archons and give them bonuses. Maybe even more for master and less for the apprentice.
RTS developers; please do not make ground transports; they’re clunky and annoying when you accidentally click stuff into them. I’m looking at you, Galactic Battlegrounds, where every tank is a transport and trying to repair with right click just loads the workers.
Well... I was thinking on an all terrain ground transport, that can move up and down cliffs and over water. You also can deposit your resources into it, so you could load it with workers, move around the map, unload to gather and load again to leave if the enemy spots you.
You have never played Kane's Wrath have you? The Reckoner in that game is a moving Bunker, then there's the APCs in other Command and Conquer games which make rushing an enemy base easy since the infantry doesn't have to play catchup with the armored vehicles.
Grant, have you considered reaching out to Carbot to see if a Wings of Liberty Cartooned could happen? They did a mod, so most of the units should be already there. I’m sure the map textures would take forever, but it’d be cool.
Go to Revanscar next. Carrier and Mothership will be alot more fun the voids i'd assume. If you go to Slayn first you only get like one or two missions with the mothership unlocked.
I feel like the butterfleavers are really strong though? You don't HAVE to evolve them, but the evolved variants are pretty strong anti ground but you really need at least 5 for that critical mass broodlings...
I'm really sad they didn't make the iMortal instead of the Immortal, that has an awesome barrier that it can only use once and a timer that degrades its stats every time it finishes until it completes maybe 5 times, at which point it just dies.
I think the mission's macguffin needs more protection than a few bloodhunters. Yes static D doesn't stop the attacks but it delays them enough to reinforce the position. Why not just use forges and shield batteries?
2:15 I almost choked on the muffin I was eating. Well played! 4:50 I knew it'd be a Jayborino reference! 12:40 Not quite as funny as I thought it would be...
Calling it right now, at a minute and a half in: the Reaver will be a Jayborino reference, since he hates them with a passion. EDIT: Somebody pick up the phone! EDIT 2: WHAT
"Ground based transports are so bad in RTS" He says. I disagree. Grenade or Flamethrower rushing someone with an APC in OpenRA Or engineer rushing in Red Alert 2 Those two are amazing.
Engineer rushing with a Subterranean Transport is pretty OP in Tib Sun, I know the AI pulled exactly that on me multiple times. There's also the classic loading a Reckoner or an APC full of guys and having a moving death wagon that spews fire and missiles or bullets at everything that moves. Also, a bit off topic bug I swear you used to be able to put multiple squads in an APC back in Tib Wars.
I'm calling it early for the Tempest : projectile qoes stupid slow, over stupid long ranges, and detonates a nuke upon impact ;7
sounds amazing
So carbot tempest?
I think tempest is gonna shoot psi storms/ literal tempests
@@Nerizwith I AM THE TEMPEST WHO'S APPROACHING
I think that's how real-scale tempest work, there's 1 in real-scale Heart of the Swarm similar like that.
Anyone else love Orca's tip message as a reminder.....that grant completely ignored lol
I mentioned it last Vid to lol
If I had to shorten this entire series into three quotes it would be
1."Oh this is really bad"
2."Wait this might be really good"
3."(assorted Grant cackles)"
Reaver is definitely at its best when it's devouring enemy units instantaneously. Morphing it into the inferior Butterfleaver is the price to pay to make sure the units don't come back. :V
It also gets too fat and slow once maxed it looks like. So it is a bit of a diminishing usefulness. Probably still perfect for defense though, other than hybrid being immune
@@quickdraw6893 its so tanky though
I wonder if mass-reavers could stop the final mass-dragoon-immortal onslaught during the Salvation mission
@@PeterZaitcev + blood hunters so they can devour air units swarms.
Butterfleaver.. Why does that sound like something that Fluttershy would come up with.
Calling it early, Carrier is gonna be a suicide bomber (HERE COMES THE GANTRITHOR!)
OH FUCK.
My idea was calling it Executor Nral and it shoots little GRANTrithors that go on a collision course with the enemy. :D
@@tonnentonie2767 and in The Host hybrid created from Overmind screams OH FU- while being bombed xd
@@zlt__ hahaha
I won't be surprised if the Carrier actually has the Kirov Skin.
All hail the Butterfleaver, the greatest of all units
Hatcheries turned into an all-you-can-eat buffet and a nesting ground for these beautiful creatures.
I might be wrong but at 4:01 to 4:03 you can see the Zealot inside the VANguard healing from Orange to Yellow Health State so maybe it heals the units HP inside slowly
Obviously the van has snacks inside
they just kidnapped a medic and don't let it out of the van
That and using the van as an actual apc would get around the small units being stuck behind them
However, the red health stalker is already loaded into apc at 7:48, however it is still red at 8:22. If it does heal it heals veeeeeery slowly. Or does it heal only zealots? We need to make Grant test it
Could that not just be shield regen?
Mission: defend the massive building in the middle or u die
Grant: *doesn't make any static defense and barely puts any unit to defend*
Zerg: *sends tons of stuff to atk building*
Grant: y is this so hard
yeah static d is le garbage
Garnt didn't have any problems with the regular Zuuurg attacks(apart from being -out of touch- out of place), it was the Hybrid
seriously though, even one hybrid reaver can clear through tens of cannons+batteries no problem
and no Khaydarin -Amulets- Monoliths cos they cost gas
@@The-jy3yq how do you do strike through on yt?
The thing about static defense, though, is that it's never out of place. Provided it's built on the central mission objective. And it doesn't need to win, it just has to buy time. Another LPer remarked it was sometimes handy to "have defenses I can't accidentally move away."
@@RoyalFusilier walling is straigh up better simply because you're not wasting your money on some 150 mineral-each punching bags
you're wasting it on tankier, same 150?each production/air upgrades(cos 100 more health for the cyber core) that serve as punching bags
the static d is underwhelming because you could have had the same amount of money in your army = better engagements = less losses = more recources to spend instead of having a 1500 minerals or even a 800 minerals safeguard sitting at the base
@@The-jy3yq it doesn’t matter how underwhelming the static defense is. It would delay the wave, that’s the point. Static defense isn’t strong, that’s a fact, but when the alternative is a roaming army that isn’t going to get back in time to stop a loss, investing money into something that lets your army get there in time is worth it.
Your argument of using tanker production buildings has merit if not for one thing: target priority. Objectives tend to have a higher priority than production. If they’re in the way, they will tank sure. But otherwise the objective will always die first, and you also have to consider that production buildings are bigger and will block units they produce from getting out if too tightly packed.
Static defense is not as useless as far too many people seem to think.
That "If only we had more Solarite" caught me off-guard
Time stamp?
@@theduke3778 +- 29:10
@@gendy4369 yeah. Listen to the background
Did it catch you off “van” guard?
@@HMSM13 AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
"The damage isn't very high with these Darth Archons, but because they hit a bunch of stuff at once, that's pretty good."
Destroyer: Am I a joke to you?
Grant: "Of course you are, I thought I made myself pretty clear on that."
Darth Archon: hits 6+ enemies at once instantly. Destroyer: takes a full second firing on an enemy to turn on a second hit, any interruption including the target dying resets them down to 1 enemy hit. Not quite the same.
Darth Archon should have a +2 range bonus named high ground
More like a +5 damage bonus when they attack enemies at a lower elevation.
You can only build 1, but it provides 2, One to embody the Power and the other to Crave it. Whenever 1 dies, the other can recruit an apprentice to replace it.
Oooh, what if it can't die and whenever one dies, the other inherits the strength, but when they both die, it spawns two new ones. Sounds pretty OP, but if it's not that strong, you'd just get endlessly killed and respawned forever and accomplish nothing if you tried to use just the two darth archons. Also, the weaker one just wouldn't do much damage.
I even think the 2 damage on 0.2 attack speed is fine, though maybe 4 damage on 0.4 attack speed would be better to avoid doing too little damage due to armor.
Somehow I feel like Viper as a means of co-meme him in this campaign. Could vocal Palpatine laugh everytime he casts
I don't know if you know Carbot animation, but their depiction of Viper is on point ;7
@@pierre-mariecaulliez6285 oh! I remember that ^^
@@pierre-mariecaulliez6285 So... Carbot edition when? Seriously though, there is an entire mod built in SC2. That means there’s (probably) some way to access those sprites and implement them into the custom campaign runner. And if Carbot is up for it, having cartooned map textures would be awesome.
That Zerg AI was playing like Serral, always with the on point viper snipes
Butterfleaver seems exactly like the brood lord and the reaver. slow pushing seige unit. And this mission is all about blitzkrieg, not slow pushing, so trying out a brand new slow pushing unit on it is terrible.
Van guards looked to be very good in this mission, but only so long as you have a frontline with them for support, otherwise they die off real fast. A lot like siege tanks. Except both worse and better in different ways.
Grant: "Why do things keep attacking and getting to the core"
Also Grant: Never builds any defense or even building walls to delay attackers
He is showcasing the units
This made me realize... Why are there no cannon memes? Battery memes? Monolith memes?
@@AvianArmada Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't build defenses to stop yourself from losing the mission. He tried using only units to defend the core, that didn't work, and then he proceeded to just leave the core completely empty and undefended.
Even if you want to argue "He doesn't want to kill anything without the fun units", nothing stopped him from building a thick Nexus wall to delay any attacks long enough for him to get units over.
@@chuckmanion1128 I feel like Monoliths are already a meme... If you aren't manually targeting them, they never fire until the wave's already mostly dead because they keep aiming at the Zerglings/Zealots in front, and ignore the Guardians/Carriers behind
The van should be made faster and slightly smaller.
Maybe less HP too, 600 is insane for the price.
Mass reavers on the last stand. Nothing gets through
So will there be a tier list of the meme units after this playthrough?
Archon: Power Overwhelming!
Darth Archon:: UNLIMITED POWAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
High templar: in the name of the galactic conclave of the daelam you are under arrest
Darth archon: are you threatening me master templar
High templar: the conclave will decide your fate
Darth archon: i am the conclave
High templar: not yet
Darth archon: its treason then
Please read the tool tips earlier. As soon as you think you have an idea of what it is doing, check the tool tips and confirm it. It will make it more enjoyable to watch if you spend the majority of the mission understanding what the unit does instead of being completely blind for the whole mission until (maybe) the very end.
I really like this mod quite a bit, but not reading the tool tips until the very end is frustrating.
yeah it gets pretty annoying
Absolutely agree!
Hungry Hungry Jaybo's
with Butterfleaver it could be cool if it launched scarablings, shiny blue broodlings that detonate like a scarab on death, and sort of behave like the zagara broodlord concept of Mestrophis by having the scarablings float alongside the Butterfleaver instead of stored within it. And could drop them all at once. That would match up the one shot almost everything factor they loose in the upgrade
For April Fool's next year, you can do another Zealot only run with this mod- they have anti-air now...
2:30
It's a vanguard from maelstorm
Holy shit
I never thought that someone else still remembers that game, i'm sooo happy now
I just realised that the long zealots fire from their crotch and that might make them more or less funny and i don't know which
How about giving Darth Archo an Oracle like attack. It is a force lightning, so it would only be fair if it counts as spell damage. That would solve the problem of it not dealing damage.
The cybernetics core uses the blacksmith audio from wc3. I thought I heard it somewhere in an earlier episode lol but I'm sure of it now
Edit: my b, lumber mill
Not the Blacksmith - the human Lumber Mill
On the side note, the Templar(MLG) Archives have the Warcraft 1 and 2 Church's sound and the Dank Shrine(Moder Warfare 2) has the Temple of the Damned(WC2) sound
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
I would love to see challenge runs using Legacy of the Memes. they would be very fun.
Viper: Its Over GGG i have the High Ground...
Darth Archons stole their Auto Attack from the Destroyer
They are more alike to the ascendant's orb
@@ko71k52 Nah the Ascendant's orb can actually do damage
I just jumped into the series here...
Clearly, I need to start at the beginning.
Nothing has anti air? Those helichopper zealots would like a word with you Mr GrantDoesGames
Jaybor-eat-o's are better against Terran than Zerg or Protoss, because you can fit the entire human race in that worm.
Ground based troop transports are only good in RTS games that don't allow you to run over your fleshy troops.
What about ones where you can't run over your own but CAN run over an enemy's?
@@kabob0077 That's what I meant, just worded it poorly. Not to mention I wrote "only good" when I actually meant "only bad".
@@anonimus370 Ground troop transports are only good if they are either very fast and cheap (flak track in RA2) or if they have fireports so they work as mobile bunkers.
Otherwise they range from liability to situational (like using Siege Towers to carry Teutonic Knights in AoE)
Oh boy, do I anticipate the transformation of Great Mohandar's fleet!
There is a legend that there exists a static defense in this game )
Only for Terran though :V
Is that grant making movie references?!? :O Darth archons with havocs buff and a wall of adepts ghosts infront giving the +damage? insane!
(Joking) Grant: Complains about not getting anit air
Whirlwind Zealot: Sad noises
The robo units are amazing SO LONG AS YOU MICRO THEM! They aren't a "set and forget" unit.
wish this game had static defense that you could put around the core to help defend it.
@@falsnamae3511 at least they would attack the cannons and slow the attack on the core to give time for the army to show up
"why nothing has anti-air?"
Meanwhile Blood Hunters that can ground air units:
The van should be able to load empty van for some recursive meme
Best video ever man. The very hungry reaver is the best thing ever.
* Looks at Darth Archon *
Spiked bone ridges under the skin
Glowing red eyes
Shoots red lightning
Product of a horrific transformation
Clearly these aren't Sith, they're Voidbringers.
Allmighty above, you're right! Odium's reach is far greater than we ever imagined...
Darth Archon seems to have the same issue as the destroyer
But the destroyer can't force choke ppl
I feel like the butterfleaver is a necessity to prevent the caterpillars from becoming a huge liability when they've consumed like 50 supply of enemy units, given that it would unleash those in the middle of your army if it died
Thanks for the fun! ^^
You need a good dose of positive energy? Watch Legacy of the Memes! XD
Now this was insane. I just died when jabor-eat-o shown up..
The moment I remembered the Reaver was even a thing here I just KNEW Jay was gonna be referenced SOMEHOW lol
In all of the Dawn of War games ground transports are pretty solid, granted that's because there's no air alternative and they're made to be solid units on their own, I guess the problem just comes down to poor design choices, of course you're not supposed to have the APC and it only turns up early game so that's probably why it's so bad :b
I can't wait for what happened to the wrath walker, I'm calling it early it's the "Wraith"Walker.
oh no
it's going to shoot giant lazuhrs and gehmini muhssiles
The vanguard is just a better stuckov tank. And stuckovs tanks are already some of the best tanks in the game. Shock divisions are stronger 1v1, but they effectively cost way more because mengsk.
Ground transports are so bad in RTS you say?
C&C begs to differ. Just as a transport, transport engineer base capture cheese is a somewhat significant thing in most of the games in the series. This is because the transport vehicles are significantly faster and quite a bit tougher (also immune to dogs etc) than infantry. The benefit over air transport here is that if the vehicle is destroyed, the infantry survives, whereas air would result in total loss of life.
And, of course, there are the multi gunner/mobile fortress variants where the units do, in fact, shoot out (sort of). But I don't really consider these transports when used as such.
AoE2 ram is also sort of a thing. You can "transport" some guards with your ram, to defend it against enemy melee attackers. The guards will be safe from ranged attack while inside (cause ram is highly resistant to ranged attack) and provide the ram with a speed and attack bonus to boot. It's not really meant to be a transport but sort of works.
There are a number of reasons why SC2 ground transport is bad. The first is because the only ones that exist are slow and fragile. There is no room for slow ground transport unless it's super tough. Second, there are chokes on most maps, which make ground unit movement restricted in general and thus prevent most potential cheese. This is in turn due to the fact that a lot of ground units are pretty mobile already, which allows them to cheese on their own if not countered against, which further diminishes the value of transport. And finally, the air transports are above par, compared to most other RTS.
To put it in context of SC2, just imagine if you have access to both vulture and baneling and your vulture can transport baneling(and the death of the hellion make them pop out as opposed to die) AND the map have no choke. Now I think you see how ground transport can be strong with the right environment.
So no, it's not all RTS. It depend heavily on the overall game design. SC2 never took ground transport into consideration and so they suck.
What ground transport does Starcraft 2 have, besides the colonist APCs which are supposed to be bad?
There's also the fact that SC2 has very low TTK across the board.
A tanky unit in SC2 is still likely to die in seconds under fire, which doesn't work well with the idea of ground transports
If I might add to that list:
In dawn of war 1 and 2transports are also really good. The imperial guard chimera is probably one of the best units in the entire game and really provides a lot for your army. Same goes for the space marine rhinos and the ork trucks.
@@honourabledoctoredwinmoria3126 The only thing I know for sure are the APC and its variants. There are a number of things listed under Terran ground transport on the wiki, but I'm not certain they all have in game units or if some are just stuff in novels and even the stuff in game, like trains, might not actually have the transport ability.
But anyway, APC is just a bad example of a ground transport, other games where ground transport is actually designed for end up with them being viable. So Grant's blanket statement isn't quite right.
@@Max-sz9ez I honestly didn't even realize the Ork Trukks were a transport, they're that good on their own lol
There was an awesome ground carrier unit in red alert 2 yuris revenge exanspion. People could shoot out and it could roll over enemy vehices and destroy them that way. Great stuff.
I think giving the blood hunter a stronger attack against flying units could be fun. It would combo very nicely with their ability
19:11: How many Karaxi and Fenixes do they have?!
Yes
Well i guess, Butterfleaver needing Air unit upgrades might be hard on the economy. Especially on missions with more ground to air units, as an army.
Oh dear it’s Jay’s worst nightmare! REAVERS!!!
Ironically, the reavee may be pretty OP against ground units when it stays a caterpillar and you support it with something else that has anti-air and can damage units the reaver can't eat. It also has more than double the hp and shields of the butterfleaver once it maxes out.
Butterfly is actually good if you can mass them up. Eating is extremally efficient in getting rid of enemy units, like ultralisks, and you pay for them only once.
It;s mechanics are overlapping with Archoooon, though. I'd leave Archooons at level 9, to make use of their shields, and combo them with tall zealots. Maybe a couple of corsairs/mirages
Did those banelings from the van just do friendly fire?
ngl i really really like the look of the butterreaver
Unfortunately he doesn't say "My name is Van, I'm 30 years old... I'm a performance artist". That surely adds a new meaning in to... loading the cargo.
Baneling is 300 bucks
Archooooon and reaver would be a fun composition
Just get the attack upgrade already, Darth Archons attack multiple times and insanely fast, there is literally no other unit that benefits more from attack upgrades.
1:49 THE LOST VIKINGS!!!
Looks like there's an autocast for the darth archon's force push that's off by default.
I'll admit, I was a tad disappointed when the Reaver didn't transform into a Nydus worm and expel a small army of Terran infantry in honor of Jayborino's "entire human race in a worm" comment/meme.
26:50 With you on that Master+Apprentice darth archon bonus
The only way this could have been better would be importing MLP to include Fluttershy as part of this.
19:12 - what does Fenix doing there? O.o
Wait, no - why there are multiple Fenix and Karax there? O.O
@GiantGrantGames Archives ! You missed very important thing during cutscene, I think!
I just realize the mission end screen is changed to have the Mission Objective Reward text changed to Super Unique Objective Reward.
Always 2 there are.
The master and the apprentice.
FORCE there to only be 2 Darth Archons and give them bonuses. Maybe even more for master and less for the apprentice.
you killed all of his workers with 1 reaver in sc1 coop??? HOW? i gotta watch that list now
RTS developers; please do not make ground transports; they’re clunky and annoying when you accidentally click stuff into them. I’m looking at you, Galactic Battlegrounds, where every tank is a transport and trying to repair with right click just loads the workers.
Well... I was thinking on an all terrain ground transport, that can move up and down cliffs and over water. You also can deposit your resources into it, so you could load it with workers, move around the map, unload to gather and load again to leave if the enemy spots you.
You have never played Kane's Wrath have you? The Reckoner in that game is a moving Bunker, then there's the APCs in other Command and Conquer games which make rushing an enemy base easy since the infantry doesn't have to play catchup with the armored vehicles.
Thank you for the video.
Stetmann would be proud.
I'm not sure I saw that right but it looks like injured units heal inside the Van? Might be a nice excuse to not have repair beam.
Grant, have you considered reaching out to Carbot to see if a Wings of Liberty Cartooned could happen? They did a mod, so most of the units should be already there. I’m sure the map textures would take forever, but it’d be cool.
I was hoping the vanguard played a card game when it attacked.
The Dragoon and the Cosair would have a ton of anti-air.
I am also pretty sure that you haven't shown the Phoenix yet.
It’s Fenix in aPhoenix with a YEETbeam
@@alexanderchipman9571 Thanks a lot. I checked again and noticed that I somehow missed that episode completely.
What if fenix ability is also meme?
"ground based transports are so bad in RTS" says a man who doesn't play Warhammer 40K:Dawn of War enough.
Wait would the darth archon make the adept shades worthwhile?
WOOH Baby Reaver is back
Why doesn't the Gateway have the Gateway sound from Warcraft 3?
What about the Robo Bay having the Goblin Workshop sound?
Finally, protoss propagators
Go to Revanscar next. Carrier and Mothership will be alot more fun the voids i'd assume. If you go to Slayn first you only get like one or two missions with the mothership unlocked.
I feel like the butterfleavers are really strong though? You don't HAVE to evolve them, but the evolved variants are pretty strong anti ground but you really need at least 5 for that critical mass broodlings...
I'm really sad they didn't make the iMortal instead of the Immortal, that has an awesome barrier that it can only use once and a timer that degrades its stats every time it finishes until it completes maybe 5 times, at which point it just dies.
I think the mission's macguffin needs more protection than a few bloodhunters.
Yes static D doesn't stop the attacks but it delays them enough to reinforce the position. Why not just use forges and shield batteries?
Tempests will release psi storms on impact, mark my words
I AM THE TEMPEST WHO'S APPROACHING
2:15
I almost choked on the muffin I was eating. Well played!
4:50
I knew it'd be a Jayborino reference!
12:40
Not quite as funny as I thought it would be...
Calling it right now, at a minute and a half in: the Reaver will be a Jayborino reference, since he hates them with a passion.
EDIT:
Somebody pick up the phone!
EDIT 2: WHAT
Vanguards can transport Reavers to feeding grounds?
wait, did the cyber core build sound get replaced with the lumber mill sound from wc3?
Grant, have you ever heard of the game Creeper World 4? It’s a very interesting tactical game about fighting a liquid. Maybe check it out someday?
I'd say CW3 was better
"Ground based transports are so bad in RTS" He says.
I disagree.
Grenade or Flamethrower rushing someone with an APC in OpenRA
Or engineer rushing in Red Alert 2
Those two are amazing.
Engineer rushing with a Subterranean Transport is pretty OP in Tib Sun, I know the AI pulled exactly that on me multiple times.
There's also the classic loading a Reckoner or an APC full of guys and having a moving death wagon that spews fire and missiles or bullets at everything that moves. Also, a bit off topic bug I swear you used to be able to put multiple squads in an APC back in Tib Wars.
Just played this myself I am sad he skipped the final cutscene.