440W Mono Solar Panels VS 410W Bifacials: Worth the extra cost?
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
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Turns out you don't need to draw out a UA-cam video to get to the point. Some UA-camrs should take note. No store runs, no sidestory, no unrelated content. Thanks Will
SOOOOOO no kidding…thanks for your succinct reporting Will
Amen!
Ohh boy, some youtubers want to talk about their entire life story before getting to the point. It's the most annoying thing ever.
The amount of value Will brings to the renewable energy community is incredible.
Thank you!!!
@@WillProwse what if I live in Europe where solar radioation equals to 1000 kWh / m2 and 60 sunny days? Mono does terribly in overcast conditions no?
@@WillProwse p}p}p0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000⁰00
@@Mike-kr5dn Yes, poly does better in diffuse light.
A great point about cabling and mounting hardware costs for lower output panels.
If there is a UA-cam award this gentleman deserves it. Thank you sir!
Bi-facial all the way for me, when I’m ready. I’m in snow country and in the winter it’s cloudy 99 out of 100 days. So I’m more concerned about maximizing output in the winter, not the summer
I imagine the reflected light from the snow on a sunny day can make a difference as well.
@@GonzoDonzo ...In our high mountain installations for geophysical monitoring systems we install panels vertically so in winter they rapidly shed any wind-blown snow accumulation, and yes the reflected light contributes to power production.
I'm now working with a trusted contractor to design a 20kW ground-mount array, New England. He's speccing a 450W LG LG450N2W-E6 (NeON 2 H) and I'm seeing on LG's site a Bifacial version, although it's 440W.
For my latitude and climate (we're also at 1000' el.) I'm thinking the Bifacial is a better option.
Make sense?
It’s probably important to also mention panel efficiency. The Poly Renogy is likely around 16% and the Mono panels about 20%. Bigger panels don’t necessarily mean more efficient. Always compare your $/W as biggest isn’t always cheapest per Watt.
This post says two different things.
.efficiency is output per square ft…
$/W is value, not efficiency…
Great advice Will, I have been tried to tell people the same, get the best high wattage panels you can, over spec wire sizing and the same for battery capacity and inverter(s) you need, most people never get it right first time and spend a lot of time with either chasing issues or faults or replacing and upgrading, so they spend twice and more than double the amount instead of spending wisely in the first place.
Another great video. But even small differences between panels might be significant for the marine market. I have two Q-Cells 340 watt panels on our sailboat - its all I can fit. So, it was very important to get panels that seem to start generating at lower sun angles and really maximize the total power per day. So, even though you might dismiss your work as not showing large differences, some of us are very interested in even small gains from one panel set versus another. Thanks for all you do.
We went bifacial due to living in Oregon. At least half the year tends to be cold and cloudy. Might as well eek out as much as possible during the winter, the array is oversized for summer needs anyway.
Have you done a vid yet on energy loss based on temp? I'd like to you see you do a thorough vid one on that topic.
Thanks for sharing & keep up the good work!
Though bifacial panels are costly, they are becoming more affordable as time goes on. Bifacial modules also last longer and are more durable, making them the better choice in the long haul.
On behalf of your UK based viewers, thank you for this info.
If you are considering mounting your panels on ground mount racking systems, sometimes the costs become considerably more expensive for a system that holds the larger panels. Your design has to figure for not only the additional weight and surface area but also additional costs of rails and concrete to support the structure. When you look at the percentage of cost differential between a 370W 72 cell mono panel and a 420W 144 cell mono panel, the costs per watt becomes lower on most 370W mono panels installed.
Yea for real. Psnels then lastly cabling are only thing left of my system to buy ; but, theres LONG code ordinances on ground and roof mounting. Gotta read them carefully before buying. I do know until I find darn UL stamp on a panel, Im gonna have to hide my array sonewhere at rear of property. Fun fun
@@arogers573I've been searching panels with UL cert too. For what purpose are you searching that certification?
When I finally DO buy a LiFePo4 100 ah battery for my 5th wheel trailer I`ll soon be living in I`ll check back with your videos. Thank you Sir!
This was pretty useful information. I guess the take away is that while bifacial panels do offer some low light benefits, they generally don't go over their rating in full sun.
Good info Will. Often, I think, people don't consider the total cost and get dazzled by finding a "good" deal on just the panels.
Well that is the main part of a off grid system
Late to this video Wil - You nailed it! Going bigger with either bifacial or mono panels saves a TON of money. I am converting all my old 100w Renogy mono panels to Q-Cell 480w bifacial panels. Less space needed + more power. And, they are GROUND mounted here in Oklahoma (which, for six months of the year isn't hot). The Q-cell panels are also "two panels in one" meaning if 1/2 of the panel is shaded...still will hold up the voltage and power. Keep up with the great work!
Meanwhile here in Sweden is prohibited connect solar panels yourself on your own property even the DC side! Yeah... soon we will be prohibit to change freaking light bulb in our own homes.
just means someone has screwed up BIG TIME before
In Finland we can install off grid system if it's less than 120V, on grid not possible though. Now I'm assembling hybrid system myself with 500V of solar panels, not going to tell anyone 😃
It would be great to see you raise up the bi-phasic panels to see how much more power you can generate. Even a simple wooden frame for demonstration
Pretty sure he did a video on that earlier and it didn't seem to make much difference
@@ByronWatts with a name like that you should know Byron! 💪
I wonder if Bifacial solar panels would be ideal for marine applications? The water would reflect alot of light back to the back surface
For sure! I have built houseboat canopies with wicked high yields
Yes, because you get offshore too far and it's usually cloudy up north. Not sure about down by Florida.
You should test the bifacial panels on a boat. It would be very interesting to see how much reflection from the water helps. you have a lot of boaters who watch your channel.
No water in the desert.
@@chrissubleski200 sure there is. Lake mead. I lived in Vegas for 25 years.
@@ExileCinema
My apologies. I thought it dried up. Sent from the shore of Lake Huron.
@@chrissubleski200 lol none needed. And you're almost right... That lake has been trying it's best to dry up.
I just bought 20 bifacial panels for 10.00 less each for same size mono . I am going to stand them up on edge east to west and see what I can get. I think I will be pleased!
For me as a newbie, very informative. My first thought was to get the 440w bifacial as I was going to place them on my white vinyl patio roof. But then I found out the vinyl may not be able to handle the extra weight load so that’s out the window. Now I will research the monocrystalline
If you vould have placed Tigo optimizers to the panels it would have been a nice side by side comparison for the panels and produced power in real life situation. Plus I see there is a little shade over one panel. And if you would get some of them it would be interesting to see if you have similar systems and partial over one panel (from the house for example, not just covering the panel) partly if the regained power the tigo app claims vs not optimized system is accurate or not.
The work you put in to this is extremely valuable! Thanks Will!
many roofs do not fit the larger panels well, and given the require fire set backs you can often get more "fill" with the standard 60 cell panel. 270 watt is pretty dated at this point, a 380-390 60 cell would be a better comp. Using 270 would be great if you got them at a very low $ per watt.
I thought this was very educational. I learned that spec's on these panels was done well (more trustworthy)... in regards to other tech/etc. Good job!
Will, did, or can you, look at the data and give an estimate on annual light cloud cover where bifacials MAY be of benefit re: roi?
Best,
Ken
this is great information as a vegas resident this is the type of proper testing and results is awesome
I just ordered a 190 watt HQST panel for my Bluetti EB70s for about $180 with tax. I also found a new release 100 watt folding panel for $130 that claims to have SunPower cells that looks almost identical to the very expensive Jackery folding panel. It also has type C and regular USB ports. I ordered it.
where from?
So you are the one that I will follow... I followed your channel for quite a while now and know that the knowledge that you are giving me will help me create what I want one day. Please keep making these videos. Thank you so much.
Thinking of pulling the trigger on a home solar system (finally) - your straight to the point analysis of higher output panels is appreciated!
One reason to buy cheaper lower output panels ... and it's part of my calculations now ... Using the panels as roofing material on a carport, an application where the bifacial panels would probably really shine on a pure output basis. I need to cover an area of 5x5 or 5x6 panels, but I don't need the output of a bank of 25 or 30 400-500 W panels to fulfill my power requirements! So there really is a good application for cheap gently used ~200 W panels!
Excellent point about buying the panel with the highest output.
Wow, that’s a lot of solar… and a lot of testing… much appreciated!
Will, do you know of any research with bifacial solar panels elevated at the back of boats? This is a common configuration on cruising boats. They are elevated eight to ten feet above the water and at the back of the boat. I'd assume the water would reflect light and augment the value of bifacials. Great video as always Will. Thanks.
I’d love to see expected current based on data sheet(using a pyranometer and thermometer) vs measured for solar panels, given in LV you can push these modules well above STC cell temp. Love your videos!
The lower wattage panels will be beneficial for someone building a smaller system. It's good to have a variety of panels regarding wattage output, whether that of budget or size consideration based on the parameters of a given project.
Absolutely! RV roofs typically require small panels to fit around the roof vents. Good point
I don't concur (sorry Will I do respect you) bc one small panel can easily choke a full system - unless you run multi charge controllers. I'm covering my roof in panels and venting out of the sides.. 4 x 400w + 1x 325w and Bi-facials were a waste of time in the UK. Total waste of time
@@CosmicSeeker69 Where were your bi-facials mounted? Was hoping to use some on a carport above a lighter coloured driveway in UK also.
So for the vast majority not mounting on a roof or living in the desert...bifacial seems like the way to go.
Hi Will i'm not sure if you are interested but in theses crazy times I would love see a video on EMP on our solar gear, how far away would be safe if the unimaginable Nuclear conflict happens and if there are any ways to protect gear.
So correct me if I'm wrong but you said you got +5 to 6% on a cloudy cold day with the bifacial and on a hot day how much extra did you get? Answering this question is the only way to help us decide for each application (commercial, domestic...) if it is worth it for us or not.
I love this young man's videos there so informing
Buy a house in WA, ND or BC then mount the panels there for tests too.
Panels with higher power output usually come with high current output. On-Grid systems where higher voltage, in the 600Vdc range, benefit from voltage and become too expensive with high power output panels. That's why these ~280Wp panels still exist, most watts and volts per currency.
Will - what are your thoughts about bifacial panels in a northern environment like Minnesota? When installed on an elevated ground mount as you mentioned, roughly 4' off the ground to avoid being impeded by snow accumulation, they receive quite a bit of reflected light from the snow. This is an important potential increase in performance for our meaningfully reduced daylight hours in winter.
Yup bought 144 Bifacial for 440 W per panel 2022, so cal and hate evs but be prepared
This guy is good. I like his videos. I am about to by solar panels for my van and didn’t know if I wanted renogy 1100(2x 550 watt bifacial) or 1000 watt (2x 500 watt flexible mono crystalline) the bifacial being $1000+ and the 1000 mono being $250. I can just add an extra panel and still have more power than the bifacial right?
I checked out your above link, I had no idea that theres jack mounted batteries.
i might just get one of them 440s for my pt cruiser, switch out the 200 watt, hmmm powa!
Love your videos Will. From virtually zero knowledge on solar power, to mapping out a marine system capable of powering the boat's air conditioners all night long - all thanks to your videos. Question: Have you tested or provided any design concept videos related to panels with the microinverters (AC panels)? Are there fewer loses in the entire power train with AC panels?
I got 390 sunpowers "used" from Santan and I'm pretty happy, but they huge!!!!!! But great deal from eBay
If you have a big roof and you're mounting to it then cheaper panels might work, and the more panels you put on the more of your roof is protected from the sun. I'd suggest anyone almost covering all their roof with PV panels look into beefing up the roofing that's left exposed, so it lasts as long as the roof will under the panels. Otherwise, when the exposed roof fails, you're going to have to remove the panels to replace the whole roof. There is simply no way to fix small areas of roof without it leaking.
Bifacial solar module for me it is!
Wow!!! You're a fellow Las Vegan. Now I really can learn a lot from you, cause we're dealing with the same environment. 👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾
It's more affordable now.. I bought a Jinko 405w Bificial. Just $4 more over a 340w mono
Will, enjoying your channel a lot-- your story and approach are admirable. Caught one misstep though @ 3:22. If one panel produces 40% less output than another, you'd need to buy almost 67% more of them right? (.6 * 1.66). I know your math skills are on point-- probably just a misstatement, and your main point comes through. Thanks and please keep up the good work!
i bought older smaller 270w panels because the bigger ones were triple the price for only 50% more power
I do not see a discussion on the size of panels. It sort of stands to reason that if the panels are larger they will produce more, a 440 is approximate 82X41 a 195 is 51X34. I was excited to swap out my panels but quickly realized the 440 will not begin to fit.
Will, do you have the opportunity to test the bifacial panels on davits of a boat? I think the results would be highly beneficial to many as space for installation on a boat is limited. Hypothesis would be that the sunlight reflection over water on underside of panel will increase output significantly with fewer panels?
Great channel by the way - love it!
The white paint of a boat is also fairly reflective for bifacial panels. Could buy one of each to test it and put them side to side symmetrically similar.
If lumber wasn't so stupidly expensive he could build a "davit" to do that test. Maybe hang it over a little wading pool to get the reflection.
Will, have you done a video on how much solar you would need just to charge your EV Tesla during the day?
I would be interested to see a set up just for this. 😁
i second this. i really want to set up a solar panel system that can hold enough charge to level 2 charge my 2018 40kwh leaf even if its just once a week because of how long it takes to get enough power to keep it charging for just an hour or two
@@kaetayga8860 40kWh battery = 40kW x 1h
= 1kW solar system x 40 hrs
Maybe a 5kW system to charge a 40kWh battery over 10hrs (power losses inverter, panel, heat etc). So a Tesla 80kWh is about double that. More panels the better etc.
@@kaetayga8860 a leaf has a small battery, and only accepts level 1 charging last I heard. Is this not the case?
Cool, the newer models have more range, and level 2 charging, cool. 40KWh divided by average 6 hours sun, needs about 7000W of solar on a good clear day, to fill the battery bank for overnight charging.
@@jonmccormick8683
I’m thinking if it’s 10 hours, you should be able to get away with half of the kilowatts if you drive under 75 miles a day. You only need to make sure it’s charged for when you’re using it. I’m retired so I wouldn’t need to use it daily.
My system has 6 kW PV and 3 kW inverter, and I run my whole house on it!
You say bifacials aren’t worth it in hot environments, but what what if they are the same price per watt as regular panels? I just bought 460w BlueSun bifacials for less per watt than 445w SolarEver regular panels (from Signature Solar). I’m mounting them on a metal building with a fairly reflective roof (of course they’ll only be about 2” off the roof) but I’m in Texas where it’s hot, did I make a bad decision?
I have a bank of those 440 Watt Solarever panels that appear to be performing quite well. I live in an extreme hot and dusty (and smoke-filled) environment as well. So far, signaturesolar has been a good distributer to work with. I had an issue with my last shipment with them and things are just getting sorted out. How this ends up will be my final thoughts about them. It's a good thing I'm not in any hurry, but I know how these things go. So... so far, so good.
This is good data I'll stick with the 440w pannels for the taking, for the solar project
Hi Will ... Thank you for all of the videos! Truely an inspiration to DIY'ers !! Question on solar panels in series ... I'm understanding that if there is a bad panel, or say one that is shaded over, the series string will perform badly / reduced output. Is there a type of panel management device such that panels can be put in series and if there is a badly performing outlier panel it can be removed (threshold) from the string to allow the output to be the best it can be at all times?
My Favorite Little Man 👨
Thanks Will
bifacial tests to try: 1. mount mirrors underneath, 2. paint surface white underneath, 3. paint surface black underneath
Where would you recommend buying 440 monocrystalline panels. Renogy appears 3.5 times more than others. Best place to buy hardware? Also what's best for N.. Illinois.
Where in the world did you find a 440 watt Renogy solar panel? The largest I have seen is the 320 watt and that’s almost $1300. I have 8 of the Renogy 200 watt panels and on an ideal day I am bringing in just over 1200 watts and that was at the price of around $2000. If I bought just 2 of the 320 watt panels it will still cost more and I would be bringing in less energy. Doesn’t make much sense to me. I think the bigger you go the more expensive it gets.
im looking at the 550w bifacial panels 41.8v operating volts and 49.65v open circuit .. but i cant figure out what voltage i should use ..... i feel like 48v is too much for 1 panel, but i feel like 60v is perfect for 2 panels in series .... i would prefer 48v if it would work
What do you think about the longI hi-Mo 535-555 I am thinking about purchasing the 555. I know it's big, but do you think by facial would be better?
Will Ive seen your videos talking about AGM batteries, but is there any difference between those and the so called GEL batteries? I have a system I built but I need to configure my MPPSolar charger and I don't know how to tell what should be the bulk/float charging, and when the battery is at full. Everywhere I look online for GEL info people always talk about AGMs instead.
What brand and wattage are the 5 on the ground that you said out performed the renogy? thanks
You can only use 440W panels with MPPT controller (battery voltage does not match). MPPT is obsolete considering cost. And mostly 440W panels are more expensive $/W. Also harder to install alone. I'm using my own mounting system (~10x cheaper).
what's latest than an MPPT?
Whats it like if you put a panel under the bifacial one. Just an experiment.
What do you think about Jinko Tiger Pro Bifacial P-Type vs Jinko Tiger Neo N-Type
I would like to watch vids from a northern state. Like always good job man
I'm in Oregon. Glad I bought the bifacials.
I too am in Oregon and would like to hear about your system. I am just now collecting components for a 24v system. If you do not mind sharing I am at the panel stage and bifacial seems a good choice for a coastal application.
@@tammytice2686 Haven't finished the build yet, batteries are top-balancing at the moment. Curious how it'll turn out, myself!
interesting to find that the same square footage monocrystalline panel will produce 40% more solar energy than the same SF polycrystalline panel on the higher Watt panels. In another one of your earlier videos you had a different result from a 100 Watt Rich Solar polycrystalline panel that produced more energy (10% plus more energy) than a similar 100 Watt rated Renogy panel, what would be the deciding factor in the conflicting results?
Great content, as always, concise and useful thanks. Question: Have you seen the frameless panels, what do you think of them ? Thanks
Can you please do a review of the new 100 watt Solar Panel from Harbor Freight? Thank you.
why not put reflective insulation sheets under the bi facial panels..the mirror finish stuff they use for rv and motor homes..?
So, what I'm understanding is that in a place like the Puget Sound region of the PNW, the bifacials would be the best option, since our annual solar rating is so poor with the cloud cover we get from Autumn through Spring... please correct me if I'm mistaken, Will.
I am in Tucson so a regular panel should be my pick. However I did here that the bi-facials would last longer and handle the heat better. I would not have to worry about cracking plastic, delamination leading to a short. Any thoughts on this. Also they would be standard roof mounting.
Great information thank you.
So many benefits to bi. Come visit me in London on my boat and I can show you
Can u do a review of the Solaria Power XT panels? They’re supposed to be better in partial shade conditions. Would be good to hear your thoughts. Cheers
Looks like the 410W Bifacials might be more beneficial for Canadians than the 40W Mono Solar Panels eh?
i think your missing the benefit of bifacials in low light and reflection from a second panel stepped back one panel width and a bit more vertical.yes better far north strait up and down for less snow build and for shorter days gains. your blessed with to much sunshine lol
Really depends where you live. In the winter up north in Spokane, Bifacial solar panels are the way to go. Polycrystalline also perform better than Mono in the northern area cause you angle them up off the ground but Bifacial Solar Panels are the way to go up North.
Very good information, thank you! Could you please suggest a place to shop if I'm only looking for one or two solar panels (I only need 500w total). Thanks 🤙🏼
😕 what about portable or foldable ones? I keep asking you for it please
Thanks Will!!!
Thank you for your video on these panels. Do you know if they are available in smaller quantities? Signaturesolar seems to require a minimum of 10. Thank you!
So if I was in between cooler cloudy weather and hotter weather while traveling I should go with Bi-Facial or Mono's? I am mounting on the roof of my 40 foot bus and I am in Vancouver BC but I'm not sure if I will be traveling in the winter or not. But if I do, I want to get the most out of my panels in cloudy weather. I want to be totally off grid.
I would like YOU to obtain, and test, the ECOFLOW DELTA Solar Tracker. Test solar panel flat vs on the tracker, using rigid panel vs flexible panel.
It would be good to know if the increased solar input using the tracker, will allow to buy less quantity of less flat solar panels, for equivalent power input.
I presume that the solar tracker will provide more daily power during the winter due to the lower sun angle, and less hours of daylight. Tracker use, vs panels on the ground, or flat van roof, or tilted van roof..... can you perform this test?
Can you evaluate the value proposition?
Value bifacial panel vs standard poly vs mono, on tracker vs off tracker flat.
Thanks for all of your unique videos.
I'll never waste my time with a solar tracker. Not worth the money
The benefit is not worth the cost. Just add another small panel would be better
Sr, very good video, and I want to ask, Can I buy panels from China in Alibaba?
Hi, For example - Do you know what power you would get with a 100 watt solar panel on a typical sunny day. I've heard a standard mono has 20 percent efficency and my understanding is that you will only get 20% of the rated panel in ideal conditions, so 20 watts max. Is this true?
I just add another Monocrystaline panel then for cloudy times.
Would you casually throw in whether or not the panels have UL stamp? Please.
Been wondering if the higher watt panels actually produced as stated.
The big panels need to be in 2 or 3 pieces. Have panels that can be connected in an unlimited amount.