Most channels: this video is brought to you by Dollar Shave Club Some Channels: this video brought to you by The Great Courses Plus Vsauce: this video is brought to you by the United States Freakin Navy
When I played battleship, I noticed (Inexperienced) players also tend to guess shots for spots that they placed their own ships. So sometimes mirroring your opponents opening moves can pay off. Until they catch on, of course.
alternatively, a lot of intermediate players will strictly avoid shooting at any squares where they placed their own ships. Definitely something to keep in mind.
I just draw a pen*s with my shots, then branch off if I hit something. With this expert strategy I achieve a 50% win rate. But I also achieve a 20% rate of forfeits from players who think I'm not taking it seriously and just walk away from the table. In summary, I win about 70% of matches, so while I'm not a pro, I'm still, statistically speaking, significantly better than most players. By drawing pen*ses.
@@RMosher11 meme is a template what is important is the context, if you really want to find an original, insightful comment google them. The quotes are great
@Jonathan Stiles Still either whether a surface vessel or submarine it's a controlled balance between weight and buoyancy, key word there being controlled bad things like sinking or capsizing happen when one fails to control either properly.
THIS! The only thing he told us about the optimal strategy is, "Start in the middle and work from there." Sooooo infuriating. Are we supposed to aim for the biggest gaps? I've been nigh-unstoppable since switching to the parity strategy 15 years ago.
@@JordanMetroidManiac Basically, if there's a lot of misses in an area, a big ship won't fit in the spaces between them, so don't expect it to be there if you haven't sunk a big ship yet.
Pleasantly surprised to know I've been playing close to optimal for most of my life without even knowing it. Only took a few games to start hunting on only one colour, so to speak, then not much longer to factor in the size of remaining boats when making more guesses.
I still remember the time I was playing this game with my brother. Calling out my shots, I got one hit surrounded by four misses. Turns out that while we were playing, he was moving his ships around without telling me.
That actually could be a cool but difficult game. You're allowed to move ships. Hits still stay on the ship. Now, that would be hard. Now picture finding a moving ship in the pacific..
I remember everyone would bunch their ships together, because we played by the rule that you had to announce that a ship was sunk, but not WHICH ship was sunk. So you might think you just sunk someone's carrier but it was actually a destroyer sitting next to a battleship! Or put all five ships abreast and let the opponent puzzle over how they got five hits in a row but didn't sink anything...
Take a look at Smarter Everyday. There’s a video where the military tells Destin the internet it’s a combat field. This is part of their soft power strategy. Win hearts and minds online. Every major UA-camd these days seems to have been invited to a military/ nasa facility
They need smart guys, but most smart people don't sign up for the military so they're sponsoring these youtubers in an attempt to recruit more smart guys.
OH NO!!! I just saw something very VERY hideous! I looked in the mirror! OH NO!! But I am the best UA-camr of this generation so it is all good! OH YESSS!!! Thanks for your attention dear eurovison vidyn
This is a severely underappreciated comment. At the bottom of the datagenetics blog, there's a demonstration of the so-called optimal algorithm that uses a probability map showing the most likely locations ships could be in. The problem is, it shows a probability field on the very first move, and that probability field is not uniform. This strategy indeed looks impressive, but with these properties there's no possible way it could be optimal because I can exploit it. To be fair, I may have missed it, but I didn't see Nick Berry himself claim this strategy as optimal on the blog. Kevin and Davis in the video, however, are a different story; Davis suggests always trying the middle square first with some rationale (5:03). Kevin uses the word "optimal" at 4:20 (in a suggestive criticism about other algorithms), but more explicitly in the vid description ("cracking the code for optimal Battleship play"). So I've no beef with Nick, but Kevin and Davis are overstating this. Absolutely though, if you assume I'm placing my ships using a placement strategy whereby I randomly select from all possible ship positions where I want to place my ships using a uniform distribution... and you use that to generate a non-uniform targeting strategy, then in effect all you accomplished was to develop a non-uniform targeting strategy that made an assumption I need not fit into about how I place my ships. And if your targeting strategy is such that you're going to target some areas more than others, that gives me a strategic advantage in placing my ships in areas you're less likely to target first. And if I have a strategic advantage, you ipso facto don't have an optimal strategy. I think in proper terms, one should consider the ship placements to in effect be the first turn, and this should be factored into play for a real optimal strategy. Furthermore it's not just that first turn where advantages would come in... if you're always assuming out of all possible remaining positions each is equally likely, then you're carving out yet more "cold spots" I could be more favorable to in my placements. More complex strategies could very well pop out such as "sacrificing" certain ships along the probability-field-assuming-uniformity strategies to keep the other ships further ahead. Ultimately, one cannot make any assumptions at all about how one's opponent plays if one is to make a claim that their strategy is optimal; a true optimal gameplay would be one that in the long run you cannot ever hope to exploit, but rather at best tie. This is certainly a game theory problem.
Yeah, that's one of the most commonly called shots. There's a few popular letter/number combos that shouldn't ever be played on simply due to how common it is for our brain to "like" them. Part of why we aren't good at true randomness...
That does not matter, he showed him the general direction of his ships. Like he saw how "high/low" and how "deep" it went from the left side of the board.
It doesn't matter. They weren't playing a real game. The whole thing was scripted and every move planned out to the dialogue. Did you honestly think the B4 joke and them ending with the battleship sinking was a coincidence?
I know a different version of the battleship game. First difference is that maximum length of a ship is 4 and minimum is 1. This mean that you can place 1 4-tile, 2 3-tile, 3 2-tile and 4 1-tile. Second difference is that ships can't touch each other, even on the edges. For example, 2-tile ship has 3x4 area where can't be another ship. So the existance of a 1-tile ships make chessboard tactic less effective, but when you destroy a ship, yo get a 3x3-3x6 area where another ship can't be.
That's the version I play. I find it way more interesting in how you place your ships. After many games with the same opponent it has a lot of mind games because using the most optimal placement will be too obvious and thus you'll have to gamble which makes every much pretty fresh.
I played just the same version back in the schooldays in Ukraine. Also the ships couldn't touch each other. Looking for 1-tile ships was the most hardcore part.
This is what the *puzzle* version of Battleship does. A key element of strategy in that version of the game (and a key deduction in solving the puzzle type) is that when you have a hit, you automatically know every space _sharing a corner_ with it is empty. Unless you play a variation allowing for diagonally-placed ships, anyhow XD
Wow what a waste. Imagine: -Hi, I'm the reactor operator petty officer of this a thermo-neutron submarine, we are in, also a rescue diver and I'm here to answer your questions. -A1? -Miss!
Better than the other waste of time trainings they made us sit through on crew’s mess when we could’ve been doing maintenance, studying, or checking off our hit list
Big comment here. Reading some of the rules I actually got quite interested if touching ships is a valid tactic. If the rules state that you have to say which ship you sunk like done in the video, touching ships is considered an useless strategy. But if you are not supposed to do so (some rule variation state that you are supposed to tell when a ship sinks not which) touching makes sense. I could put a submarine with a destroyer in a 3*3 T formation. Let's say the vertical line extends from c3 to c5. If I start at c3 hitting the submarine and then go down to c4 I hit the destroyer. Then I say c5 sinking the destroyer but If the opposing player is not supposed to say which ship I just sunk, I am stack with an incorrect information that I just sunk a 3 grid long ship. This might affect an algorithm in a way that it needs more moves and eventually loses to someone using touching ships. I would love to see an analysis to this tactic and if it has a valid point. Please upvote if you are interested aswell
I understand what you mean. another is hiding your 2 on an edge and butting it to another perpendicular ship. people only notice very late unless they hit the parallel ship first of course
Such rules are actually used in Russian version of battleships. Beside that, there's also no 5-cell ship, but instead of it each player has four 1-cell motorboats
Here's my strategy: Start at a random point on the board and pick either 4+2i or 4-2i at random. Shoot five times. If any of them hits a ship, search around it. Multiply by √(i/2). Shoot five more times. If any of them hits, search around and sink it. Multiply by √(i/2) again. Shoot ten more times. If you hit, sink. At this point you have a 4/5 chance of having sunk the aircraft carrier. (If there were a five-point ship, you would have sunk it for sure, but there is no such thing in KDE Naval Battle.) If the aircraft carrier is unscathed, pick any position that is the intersection of two four-point row/columns if any, else a 4×3 or 4×2. If it is sunk, skip this step. If the 3-point ship is unscathed, pick any position where you can fit at least 3 in a row both ways if possible, else a 3×2. If it is sunk, skip this step. Pick random points where you can fit a T-shaped tetromino if possible. When there are no T-holes left, shoot at any point such that on one side there is exactly one unshot square, until there are only singletons left. If the 2-point ship is still afloat, you will have hit it by the time there are only singletons left. If only the 1-point ship is left, no algorithm is better than any other, so do this anyway. Once only singletons are left, shoot them at random until you sink the smallest boat. There is one case in which I do not search around a hit: when it's the first shot. In that case, I shoot one more shot, so that I don't forget which square was first.
the best method for searching or "hunting" is to go in a diagonal pattern since you're coverage is better and the ships are lined up vertically and horizontally! it's a lot faster than simply "randomizing" or "guessing"
@@joshuabigbee5874 Nah, every 4 holes seems better, because you can still use 2-space parity if the 2-space ship remains. 3-space requires more shots if you missed the little one.
@@RoderickEtheria every 4 holes = 3 space. Every 3 = 2 spaces. I get you run the risk of missing the 2 long ship but that was my point. Expediency and going for the win > slow thoroughness sometimes.
@@joshuabigbee5874 Both risk missing the 2 long ship, however the 4 hole situation can be followed up with parity afterward, the 3 hole situation already put things outside parity, and so will be landing two shots in the same spot it would have aimed if you were aiming for parity. The 4 hole situation is also faster and more expedient than the 3 hole situation, because while you are more likely to miss the 3-size ships with the 4-hole, it's not a huge likelyhood, and you're able to be more thorough after your expediency the first scan.
@@ryapowa well it kinda is wrong, since attaque is a feminine word, so you wouldn't use "le", but also since attaque starts with a vowel, you need the " l' " to contract it.
Great collaboration video! If you'd like to continue studying games related to naval warfare, I strongly recommend covering the Man and the Lion Puzzle. It's a game-theoretic way to study how a pursuer and evader can run inside a circular arena and whether the evader can endlessly escape being caught. It applies well to ship-to-ship combat. Since the content gets technical quickly, I suggest Googling "Mind Your Decisions the Man and the Lion" and reading his great summary.
After you employ the checkerboard method the lineup of your own ships is more important for winning (against human opponents). In my findings it works best to arrange your ships in H, T or L patterns. For example: if you place the destroyer as the horizontal line of an H between two other ships, it can mimic a 3 or 4 square ship upon being sunk, depending on the sequence of the hits, effectively feeding your opponent wrong information.
I've always played the game where you don't have to say whether or not a ship has been completely sunk, so they have to check manually what ship it is (eg MHHM is a destroyer, but MHH? could be any one of the ships). Also, if 2 ships are parallel, then HH may not be a single ship at all.
another way to refine the parity method is that, once you sink the destroyer, start guessing in a pattern that takes into account the fact that each ship needs three spaces instead of just two (checkerboard)
I usually do a1 then a6 followed by b2 and b6... and so on until I find a ship, it guarantees that the biggest ship is found, then once I have that ship, can start guessing a3 and a8, and follow the same pattern to find the 3 and 4 sized ships. I do randomize it a little bit in that the patter I use I don't necessarily start in the a row, but the over arching pattern has given me 70ish% win rate
That relatable moment when your playing battleship in a submarine with a petty officer and you sink his submarine and your all scared like "wait this submarine?"
Kevin: "There is a lot of buttons, so I'm gonna press this one." * presses it * * Acoustic guitar ques in * "Almost heaven, West Virginia, Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River. TAKE ME HOMEEEEEEEEE"
I once asked a navy recruiter visiting our school if they ever played battleship on board the boat and we got into a conversation about world of warships and SNES games.
Oh cool, Vsauce on a submarine. This would be a great opportunity to do a video about nuclear reactors, or sonar, or navigation, or buoyancy... all sorts of scientific possibilities... or talk about Battleship, I guess...
I always use what I call the stardew valley strategy. You place your shots in the layout of stardew valley sprinklers until you locate all the boats, which has a 2/3 chance to also hit the destroyer. It saves about 1/6 of the shots as the checkerboard strategy and is still pretty GOATed
@@SomeIdiotWithaWrench yep, honestly the hardest part about it is all the usual red tape around having civilians on board. For the crew, especially for stuff like this, the worst part about it is probably just the field day beforehand. After that, it's just another day to plan your work around.
Well it isn't like they showed us very much...we now know what their mess hall looks like and 1 other room, I doubt there is anything visible in either case that would be a national security risk.
They have to send it to OpSec(Operational Security) who vet the video and censor any sensitive information. They go through that stuff frame by frame so we wouldn't learn anything that isn't publicly known through the video.
In our country though, battleship is a bit different story as we have a set of vessels where it all begins with one four-squared vessel ending with four one-squared vessels. That said, they also cannot contact from sides and diagonals and when player hits the vessel, he should make yet one move till he misses. That leads to a situation we actually have all 100 squares of the board but also removing a bunch of them once a ship was sunk
I was training to be an ET in the nuke field. Crazy math and not having any experience with it got me stressed out and I “cracked”, my parents kinda forced me into it so once my grades were bad I just started doing shit to get out. Don’t know if I would have stayed knowing what I know now pretty much 14 years later. So that’s my story lol
If you want to learn how the optimal strategy actually works, here's a python implementation of the code if you're able to get it up and running: github.com/DataSnaek/battleships_ai
Used to give Battleship to my Algebra 1 classes when learning about coordinates. This video would’ve been the answer key. Was always fun to hear what the kids thought the optimal strategy was.
I've been playing a different version of battleships on paper. you get a ship that takes up 4 spaces, 2 ships that take up 3 spaces, 3 ships that take up 2 spaces and 4 ships that take up 1 space. you can make the ships in any shapes, so for example the biggest ship can be any of the pieces from tetris. you still get a 10x10 grid, but ships can't touch eachother. It's harder o use this strategy in that game, so i just go with a checkerboard pattern
I mean if the sub starts taking on water then the crew will drown and it'll likely sink right on down to the sea floor. So yes, you can sink a submarine.
I was hoping you'd mention the heatmap method. For my CS courses in college, my professor had us make battleship and I implemented this as the AI algorithm. A big benefit with this is you don't have to implement any additional logic like the seek and hunt method, the heatmap is pretty complete on its own. You can also pretty easily have the AI clean up kills by increasing the probability cost of spaces with possible ships intersecting with hit (but not sunk) spaces.
People: Thinking that they're making it big by being sponsored by squarespace
Vsauce: *Sponsored by the **_US NAVY_*
♫ *Where can you find pleasure? Search the world for treasure? Learn science? Technology?* ♫
William Osman got sponsored by them as well
@@Kevroa1 egg drop haha
Well Honest Trailer was also sponsored by US Army.
Jelles marble runs is sponsored by formula e (real)
when he said "and you sunk my submarine"
his response should have been "I should have listened and not pressed that"
It's gold! Give this man a medal!
I was half expecting them to sound the general quarters alarm and for the sailor to just give him a 'Dude!' look.
Better yet, at that moment the general quarters alarm should have gone off, and the petty officer should have looked at him like 'Dude!'.
"Oh, so *that's* what that button does"
"Isn't that what it's for?"
Most channels: this video is brought to you by Dollar Shave Club
Some Channels: this video brought to you by The Great Courses Plus
Vsauce: this video is brought to you by the United States Freakin Navy
They also sponsored willam osman
@@janhetjoch beat me to it
Excuse me, you missed Brilliant and Skillshare
Also, Curiosity Stream, Nord VPN and LastPass
Hov er people going to buy domains, though?
"Guess, Recalibrate, Repeat"
So...improvise, adapt, overcome
No but actually Yes o.o
Outwit, outlast, outplay
Hopefully with less drinking of pee...
"Adopt, adapt, and improve." (ua-cam.com/video/MG9Ql1Wyxbg/v-deo.html)
@@johnsmall5901 I thought that was "All for one and one for all"?
When I played battleship, I noticed (Inexperienced) players also tend to guess shots for spots that they placed their own ships. So sometimes mirroring your opponents opening moves can pay off. Until they catch on, of course.
Nice pfp
alternatively, a lot of intermediate players will strictly avoid shooting at any squares where they placed their own ships. Definitely something to keep in mind.
I just draw a pen*s with my shots, then branch off if I hit something. With this expert strategy I achieve a 50% win rate. But I also achieve a 20% rate of forfeits from players who think I'm not taking it seriously and just walk away from the table. In summary, I win about 70% of matches, so while I'm not a pro, I'm still, statistically speaking, significantly better than most players. By drawing pen*ses.
@@B3RyL hahaha great strategy! 👍
Nobody:
Kevin: Going into a nuclear powered military submarine just to play battleships.
Everyone in response: ua-cam.com/video/JW68goC4_es/v-deo.html
Can we stop with this meme already?
@@jackroymeyer6336 I am tired of memes. Trying to find an original, insightful comment on the internet is impossible.
Actually it was the navy who said "Yeah you can do that"
@@RMosher11 meme is a template what is important is the context, if you really want to find an original, insightful comment google them. The quotes are great
I'm surprised he did'nt went all "The Battleship Paradox"
Now I'm curious. Is there a battleship paradox?
@@nekkoPi can't find one 😂
Didn’t*
@@nekkoPi There may not an one yet. But we know Kevin has talked about a lot of math paradoxes.
If a battleship doesnt battle, is it still a battleship? *play vsauce music*
Is the navy offering us a discount on all nuclear submarines?
Jerry Rupprecht 5% off with code WW3
@@gatoMan102 h
Don't joke about that after the fall of the USSR drug cartels tried to buy submarines and were asked, is that with or without missiles?
SALVATION
@@green5260 *HE WALKED ALL OVER IT WITH HIS DIRTY BOOTS! OVER THE CRISP WHITE SHEETS OF MY BED THAT I HAD JUST MADE!*
“You sunk my submarine” but they’re already underwater?
_more_ underwater
Jonathan Stiles doesn’t a submarine change it’s buoyancy
@Jonathan Stiles Still either whether a surface vessel or submarine it's a controlled balance between weight and buoyancy, key word there being controlled bad things like sinking or capsizing happen when one fails to control either properly.
WW2 submarines spent most of their time on the surface. Being diesel/electric and all.
You raised my submarine...
1:34 did you really say C4 inside a US Navy ship boy you're brave
5:51
@Brownskikuca Garlic Bread what did he say?
@Brownskikuca Garlic Bread everyone felt that
@@bun-3k what did he say
C4 is a bomb lol
I love how the equipment he reached for in the beginning was one of the only things he would've been fine touching. Just a speaker relay for sonar
Maybe that's why he was allowed to get so close to it, lol
@@claraferrell7811 He also probably asked what button was safe to touch so they could do the bit.
Next time: Minecraft in a minefield
Sure, that works, but my first thoughts were Minesweeper in a minefield and Minecraft in a coal mine.
@@maighstir3003 Much better!
What about PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds on a private island, or Mario Kart on a race track?
Minecraft?
Ah yeah... Minecraft!
That famous game where you craft mines and hide them to kill everybody else...
What about Call of Duty in Kabul? A little late for that one I guess...
That was a great video, but I wish they explained the optimal strategy in greater detail.
Yeah, he basically just said, “Computers are perfect at it, but we can imagine it in our minds.” I guess that helps? ??? ??????
THIS! The only thing he told us about the optimal strategy is, "Start in the middle and work from there." Sooooo infuriating. Are we supposed to aim for the biggest gaps? I've been nigh-unstoppable since switching to the parity strategy 15 years ago.
@@JordanMetroidManiac Basically, if there's a lot of misses in an area, a big ship won't fit in the spaces between them, so don't expect it to be there if you haven't sunk a big ship yet.
If you want to learn how the optimal strategy actually works, here's a python implementation of the code: github.com/DataSnaek/battleships_ai
Pleasantly surprised to know I've been playing close to optimal for most of my life without even knowing it. Only took a few games to start hunting on only one colour, so to speak, then not much longer to factor in the size of remaining boats when making more guesses.
Kevin: *Presses Button*
John: NO DON-
*submarine explodes*
*submarine launches missile at China*
Somewhere on Earth: Hit and sunk, Submarine.
I still remember the time I was playing this game with my brother. Calling out my shots, I got one hit surrounded by four misses. Turns out that while we were playing, he was moving his ships around without telling me.
That actually could be a cool but difficult game. You're allowed to move ships. Hits still stay on the ship. Now, that would be hard. Now picture finding a moving ship in the pacific..
@@TheRagingPlatypus this sounds fun as hell
I remember everyone would bunch their ships together, because we played by the rule that you had to announce that a ship was sunk, but not WHICH ship was sunk. So you might think you just sunk someone's carrier but it was actually a destroyer sitting next to a battleship! Or put all five ships abreast and let the opponent puzzle over how they got five hits in a row but didn't sink anything...
I use to cheat by looking in the reflection of my friends glasses. That is the best method.
It's a flawless strategy, until it makes you not have friends anymore.
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter A minor consequence to pay for.
One of my friends has a super shiny forehead which gives me an edge whenever I play games against her.
Are you Satan
espionage is one of techniques employed in war
anyone else wish they saw the end of the game
the pasadena ADCAP'd everything. :)
yea
I just lost the game
@@epicsmashman6806 Damnit I just lost the game
it was a staged game.. u really think that guy landed 2/3 of his shots legit?
lmao the Navy also sponsored William Osman last week
Maybe The US Navy is planning something.
@@kaysas9686 *cough* recruiting strategies
Take a look at Smarter Everyday. There’s a video where the military tells Destin the internet it’s a combat field. This is part of their soft power strategy. Win hearts and minds online. Every major UA-camd these days seems to have been invited to a military/ nasa facility
They need smart guys, but most smart people don't sign up for the military so they're sponsoring these youtubers in an attempt to recruit more smart guys.
The military wants science/engineering minded people. Sponsoring science channels makes sense.
VSauce2: This submarine has a lot of buttons, so I’m gonna push... this one.
VSauce: Where is your *NUCLEAR FALLOUT SHELTER*
"C4"
"WHERE?!"
Awesome to see a guy I trained on VSauce! Way to "nuke it out"!
This nub came on the Pasadena to give US a checkout on battleship? The audacity.
out there making the world a less safe place. you must be proud
@@magica3526I'm proud to set condition 1SQ for Strategic Launch upon receipt of a valid and authentic EAM civilian.
he can see the reflection in your glasses bro
Enhance
Enhance
Sharpen
*E N H A N C E*
INCREASE RESOLUTION.
What about Submarine in a battleship tho?
OH NO!!! I just saw something very VERY hideous! I looked in the mirror! OH NO!! But I am the best UA-camr of this generation so it is all good! OH YESSS!!! Thanks for your attention dear eurovison vidyn
@@AxxLAfriku subbed
@@syrialak101 so you sub to him but not me...lol I guess?
Pew
Needs more motorboating.
Imagine that officer being told by his CO like hey, command wanted me to tell you that you are gonna be playing battleship with a youtuber. Good luck.
And he's talkin' with Davy, who's still in the Navy
And probably will be for life 🎶
I still haven't become a Real Estate novelist...
@@MrPAULONEAL but did you find time for a wife?
@@rampagent9226 Ironically no...
I didn't know the US Navy could just sponsor UA-camrs lol
JoseBetacourt5 If you got the guns, you do what you want
they did one with William Osman
They have something to sell, so why not? A pretty good ad, tbh.
It's just a recruitment scheme. To make the navy seem more "fun"
@@ojdidit69 I get the purpose, I just didn't know they could lol (Also I'm in the Marines, so this is kinda weird to me)
The psychological warfare Destin was talking about. The US Navy has started collabs. 😂
Basically
Aaaay another Smarter commenter in the wild 👋
@@ginraw 🙋
since the ships aren't distributed randomly, wouldn't game theory be more effective than this probability mapping thing?
This is a severely underappreciated comment. At the bottom of the datagenetics blog, there's a demonstration of the so-called optimal algorithm that uses a probability map showing the most likely locations ships could be in. The problem is, it shows a probability field on the very first move, and that probability field is not uniform. This strategy indeed looks impressive, but with these properties there's no possible way it could be optimal because I can exploit it.
To be fair, I may have missed it, but I didn't see Nick Berry himself claim this strategy as optimal on the blog. Kevin and Davis in the video, however, are a different story; Davis suggests always trying the middle square first with some rationale (5:03). Kevin uses the word "optimal" at 4:20 (in a suggestive criticism about other algorithms), but more explicitly in the vid description ("cracking the code for optimal Battleship play"). So I've no beef with Nick, but Kevin and Davis are overstating this.
Absolutely though, if you assume I'm placing my ships using a placement strategy whereby I randomly select from all possible ship positions where I want to place my ships using a uniform distribution... and you use that to generate a non-uniform targeting strategy, then in effect all you accomplished was to develop a non-uniform targeting strategy that made an assumption I need not fit into about how I place my ships. And if your targeting strategy is such that you're going to target some areas more than others, that gives me a strategic advantage in placing my ships in areas you're less likely to target first. And if I have a strategic advantage, you ipso facto don't have an optimal strategy.
I think in proper terms, one should consider the ship placements to in effect be the first turn, and this should be factored into play for a real optimal strategy. Furthermore it's not just that first turn where advantages would come in... if you're always assuming out of all possible remaining positions each is equally likely, then you're carving out yet more "cold spots" I could be more favorable to in my placements. More complex strategies could very well pop out such as "sacrificing" certain ships along the probability-field-assuming-uniformity strategies to keep the other ships further ahead. Ultimately, one cannot make any assumptions at all about how one's opponent plays if one is to make a claim that their strategy is optimal; a true optimal gameplay would be one that in the long run you cannot ever hope to exploit, but rather at best tie. This is certainly a game theory problem.
@@yy2bggggs dont care
@@jimothyjimothy1 I admire your perseverance; surely it must be exhausting to reply to every second tier comment you find yourself not caring about.
It also makes me curious what a modern AI would do when playing battleship..
@@jimothyjimothy1 you just got burned boi
Finally, an expert in nuclear energy to teach us about game algorithms.
Vsauce2: chooses c4
Me: Mmmm...
Yeah, that's one of the most commonly called shots. There's a few popular letter/number combos that shouldn't ever be played on simply due to how common it is for our brain to "like" them. Part of why we aren't good at true randomness...
@@seancasey6472 Nice.
4:10
Kevin! you showed him where your ships are!
he couldn't see his hand
That does not matter, he showed him the general direction of his ships. Like he saw how "high/low" and how "deep" it went from the left side of the board.
not like they didnt know the locations already.
It doesn't matter. They weren't playing a real game. The whole thing was scripted and every move planned out to the dialogue. Did you honestly think the B4 joke and them ending with the battleship sinking was a coincidence?
And right after that he went straight for the carrier lol
Ah, I see vsauce is evolving from a UA-cam channel to a nuclear power...nice.
I know a different version of the battleship game.
First difference is that maximum length of a ship is 4 and minimum is 1. This mean that you can place 1 4-tile, 2 3-tile, 3 2-tile and 4 1-tile.
Second difference is that ships can't touch each other, even on the edges. For example, 2-tile ship has 3x4 area where can't be another ship.
So the existance of a 1-tile ships make chessboard tactic less effective, but when you destroy a ship, yo get a 3x3-3x6 area where another ship can't be.
what i know has the 1 through 4 size part, but not the no touch part.
That's the version I play. I find it way more interesting in how you place your ships. After many games with the same opponent it has a lot of mind games because using the most optimal placement will be too obvious and thus you'll have to gamble which makes every much pretty fresh.
I played just the same version back in the schooldays in Ukraine. Also the ships couldn't touch each other. Looking for 1-tile ships was the most hardcore part.
I remember playing that version.
Just like you said, pieces couldn't touch and there was 1x1 pieces.
I still have a kit in my bedroom... ( ╹▽╹ )
This is what the *puzzle* version of Battleship does. A key element of strategy in that version of the game (and a key deduction in solving the puzzle type) is that when you have a hit, you automatically know every space _sharing a corner_ with it is empty. Unless you play a variation allowing for diagonally-placed ships, anyhow XD
Kevin: *Hits rear of the sub*
*Torpedo explodes at the rear*
Kevin: Coincidence? I think not!
Wow what a waste. Imagine:
-Hi, I'm the reactor operator petty officer of this a thermo-neutron submarine, we are in, also a rescue diver and I'm here to answer your questions.
-A1?
-Miss!
It's military outreach, gotta get done.
Better than the other waste of time trainings they made us sit through on crew’s mess when we could’ve been doing maintenance, studying, or checking off our hit list
And as always Join the NAVY
Reminds me of that one Simpsons episode
@@komentierer you mean YVAN EHT NIOJ
@@dominikd1397 What language is that?
Excuse me, I have a contract to sign.
Subs are now co-ed baby. Aw yeah...
Big comment here.
Reading some of the rules I actually got quite interested if touching ships is a valid tactic. If the rules state that you have to say which ship you sunk like done in the video, touching ships is considered an useless strategy. But if you are not supposed to do so (some rule variation state that you are supposed to tell when a ship sinks not which) touching makes sense. I could put a submarine with a destroyer in a 3*3 T formation. Let's say the vertical line extends from c3 to c5. If I start at c3 hitting the submarine and then go down to c4 I hit the destroyer. Then I say c5 sinking the destroyer but If the opposing player is not supposed to say which ship I just sunk, I am stack with an incorrect information that I just sunk a 3 grid long ship. This might affect an algorithm in a way that it needs more moves and eventually loses to someone using touching ships. I would love to see an analysis to this tactic and if it has a valid point.
Please upvote if you are interested aswell
Vasilis Vaggelis It still could be used as a strat even when saying which ship sunk...
I understand what you mean. another is hiding your 2 on an edge and butting it to another perpendicular ship. people only notice very late unless they hit the parallel ship first of course
Such rules are actually used in Russian version of battleships. Beside that, there's also no 5-cell ship, but instead of it each player has four 1-cell motorboats
@@antonkomaristyy3562 I'm Russian and I learned a variation where ships aren't allowed to touch.
Vasilis, your great intelligence has driven you insane.
Here's my strategy: Start at a random point on the board and pick either 4+2i or 4-2i at random. Shoot five times. If any of them hits a ship, search around it.
Multiply by √(i/2). Shoot five more times. If any of them hits, search around and sink it.
Multiply by √(i/2) again. Shoot ten more times. If you hit, sink.
At this point you have a 4/5 chance of having sunk the aircraft carrier. (If there were a five-point ship, you would have sunk it for sure, but there is no such thing in KDE Naval Battle.)
If the aircraft carrier is unscathed, pick any position that is the intersection of two four-point row/columns if any, else a 4×3 or 4×2. If it is sunk, skip this step.
If the 3-point ship is unscathed, pick any position where you can fit at least 3 in a row both ways if possible, else a 3×2. If it is sunk, skip this step.
Pick random points where you can fit a T-shaped tetromino if possible.
When there are no T-holes left, shoot at any point such that on one side there is exactly one unshot square, until there are only singletons left.
If the 2-point ship is still afloat, you will have hit it by the time there are only singletons left. If only the 1-point ship is left, no algorithm is better than any other, so do this anyway.
Once only singletons are left, shoot them at random until you sink the smallest boat.
There is one case in which I do not search around a hit: when it's the first shot. In that case, I shoot one more shot, so that I don't forget which square was first.
Or just use intuition/cheat
This man made a his own essay of his own for battleship to go with the main video
0:46
Kevin: "I'm 100m below the surface"
Me: *shivers in Subnautica*
Brr..
“You sunk my submarine” the hell? Aren’t they already sunk?
the best method for searching or "hunting" is to go in a diagonal pattern since you're coverage is better and the ships are lined up vertically and horizontally! it's a lot faster than simply "randomizing" or "guessing"
that has always been my strategy.
Also, every 3 holes cause screw it we're for the win. 66% odds I don't miss the little one? I'll take those odds
@@joshuabigbee5874 Nah, every 4 holes seems better, because you can still use 2-space parity if the 2-space ship remains. 3-space requires more shots if you missed the little one.
@@RoderickEtheria every 4 holes = 3 space. Every 3 = 2 spaces.
I get you run the risk of missing the 2 long ship but that was my point. Expediency and going for the win > slow thoroughness sometimes.
@@joshuabigbee5874 Both risk missing the 2 long ship, however the 4 hole situation can be followed up with parity afterward, the 3 hole situation already put things outside parity, and so will be landing two shots in the same spot it would have aimed if you were aiming for parity. The 4 hole situation is also faster and more expedient than the 3 hole situation, because while you are more likely to miss the 3-size ships with the 4-hole, it's not a huge likelyhood, and you're able to be more thorough after your expediency the first scan.
There’s probably a Vsauce in an alternate universe that is playing minecraft rn
Yea and one that stayed relevant...
Oh my atheist god your "this man" pfp is so scary
He does exist, his name's AntVenom
I imagine them talking about how squarely square are minecraft blocks
@@newfieocean ua-cam.com/video/i1qIT-INew4/v-deo.html
LEts all thank the US navy for saving us from VPN sponsoreships.
Easier for the government to spy on us👍😎🤙
Did you misspell on purpose?
"C4. Hit or miss?"
"I guess they never miss, huh?"
"So did I hit?"
"Ye :("
C4 is an explosive move
I love how enthusiastic they are when they announce it’s a hit or miss
Nobody:
US navy: hey Kevin wanna play battle ship
Probably no one will see that, but nowadays, in French, we call this game "Touché, coulé".
Which translates to : "Hit, Sunk."
In German it's "Schiffe-versenken" which means Ship sinking
In Turkish it's "Amiral Battı" which means "Admiral Has Sunk"
In English, it’s just “Battleship,” which means “Battleship”
In Dutch (Belgium and Netherland) we say "Zeeslag" which means "naval battle". "geraakt" (hit) and "gezonken" (sunken) are also used during the game.
In The Legend of Zelda, it's "Sploosh Kaboom".
That’s how I’ve been playing Battleship for years. It’s very satisfying to win by using math.
Very!
Place the battleship, cruiser, and submarine on all 1s while placing the carrier and destroyer only on 10s. Now you wait for your opponent to go mad.
Kevin: I’m gonna touch this button.
Anyone who’s been on a navy vessel: That’s a speaker...
*Him: Lataque*
*Me:* _Le Attack_
I mean, you're not wrong, it's just "the attack" but in French lol
@@ryapowa well it kinda is wrong, since attaque is a feminine word, so you wouldn't use "le", but also since attaque starts with a vowel, you need the " l' " to contract it.
@@theicyphoenix1063 I didn't mean that their grammar was correct
Great collaboration video! If you'd like to continue studying games related to naval warfare, I strongly recommend covering the Man and the Lion Puzzle. It's a game-theoretic way to study how a pursuer and evader can run inside a circular arena and whether the evader can endlessly escape being caught. It applies well to ship-to-ship combat. Since the content gets technical quickly, I suggest Googling "Mind Your Decisions the Man and the Lion" and reading his great summary.
After you employ the checkerboard method the lineup of your own ships is more important for winning (against human opponents).
In my findings it works best to arrange your ships in H, T or L patterns. For example: if you place the destroyer as the horizontal line of an H between two other ships, it can mimic a 3 or 4 square ship upon being sunk, depending on the sequence of the hits, effectively feeding your opponent wrong information.
I've always played the game where you don't have to say whether or not a ship has been completely sunk, so they have to check manually what ship it is (eg MHHM is a destroyer, but MHH? could be any one of the ships). Also, if 2 ships are parallel, then HH may not be a single ship at all.
another way to refine the parity method is that, once you sink the destroyer, start guessing in a pattern that takes into account the fact that each ship needs three spaces instead of just two (checkerboard)
I usually do a1 then a6 followed by b2 and b6... and so on until I find a ship, it guarantees that the biggest ship is found, then once I have that ship, can start guessing a3 and a8, and follow the same pattern to find the 3 and 4 sized ships. I do randomize it a little bit in that the patter I use I don't necessarily start in the a row, but the over arching pattern has given me 70ish% win rate
"We can employ a rough algorithm..." *glosses over optimum strategy in 5 seconds*
I once played Operation in a hospital. I have the stitches to prove it
I did the same thing but got 17 years in prison with a $500,000 fine
Crazy world we live in am I right
That relatable moment when your playing battleship in a submarine with a petty officer and you sink his submarine and your all scared like "wait this submarine?"
I once beat a friend in a nearly perfect game.
He was wearing mirrored sunglasses
Kevin casually plays battleships with a military soldier on a nuclear powered ship
Kevin: "There is a lot of buttons, so I'm gonna press this one."
* presses it *
* Acoustic guitar ques in *
"Almost heaven, West Virginia, Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River. TAKE ME HOMEEEEEEEEE"
Ethan The Gamer COUNTRY ROOOOAAAADS!
the famous sonar hiding strategy "drunk American party ship"
@@Brent-jj6qi TO THE PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! I BELOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
@@sarowie Down Periscope?
When the current generation doesn't want to join the military so they have to resort to advertising on UA-cam
Well, the navy is looking for technical people for their underwater tech. museums. but "call of duty" only finds ground troupes for the army. So...
Playing with the biggest, best, and loudest toys in the world? You'll always find boys willing to do that.
I once asked a navy recruiter visiting our school if they ever played battleship on board the boat and we got into a conversation about world of warships and SNES games.
“B5” “You sunk my battleship”
Such a missed opportunity.
There's an algorithm like this used in the speed run of Wind Waker. It eliminates the randomness in the battle ship game
Oh cool, Vsauce on a submarine. This would be a great opportunity to do a video about nuclear reactors, or sonar, or navigation, or buoyancy... all sorts of scientific possibilities...
or talk about Battleship, I guess...
Dustin from Smarter Everyday did a video about sonar from a nuclear submarine. He must've read your comment.
@@ThePrufessa hahaha I was just about to respond w that
Top secret clearance is needed for some of it
6:45 "And you sunk my submarine"
How do you sink a submarine? They are already sunk.
Negative. Submarines submerge, ships sink.
They can sink farther
I'm not playing this game anymore, Dad.
@@WahlVids subs sink when they are breached
@@joshuahales7551 Etymology time! What's "Submarine"? If what you're saying is always 100% true, then don't we call them a "Sinkmarine"?
I'm confused. What was the paradox in battleships again?
The paradox that you always lose
There is no paradox. It's an algorithm.
I always use what I call the stardew valley strategy. You place your shots in the layout of stardew valley sprinklers until you locate all the boats, which has a 2/3 chance to also hit the destroyer. It saves about 1/6 of the shots as the checkerboard strategy and is still pretty GOATed
0:15 kevin is just yelling COME AT ME RUSSIA
the us navy supporting so many youtubers. first William Osman, now you!
The battleship algorithm is the better title I saw the previous and ignored it but this is good!
I didn't know the Navy will let youtubers film inside their submarines and share it to the public.
@@SomeIdiotWithaWrench yep, honestly the hardest part about it is all the usual red tape around having civilians on board.
For the crew, especially for stuff like this, the worst part about it is probably just the field day beforehand. After that, it's just another day to plan your work around.
It's good press.
Well in this case the Navy paid him to be there, this is a sponsored video.
Well it isn't like they showed us very much...we now know what their mess hall looks like and 1 other room, I doubt there is anything visible in either case that would be a national security risk.
They have to send it to OpSec(Operational Security) who vet the video and censor any sensitive information. They go through that stuff frame by frame so we wouldn't learn anything that isn't publicly known through the video.
And I just kinda shoot every other square in a diagonal grid pattern.
In our country though, battleship is a bit different story as we have a set of vessels where it all begins with one four-squared vessel ending with four one-squared vessels. That said, they also cannot contact from sides and diagonals and when player hits the vessel, he should make yet one move till he misses. That leads to a situation we actually have all 100 squares of the board but also removing a bunch of them once a ship was sunk
I was training to be an ET in the nuke field. Crazy math and not having any experience with it got me stressed out and I “cracked”, my parents kinda forced me into it so once my grades were bad I just started doing shit to get out. Don’t know if I would have stayed knowing what I know now pretty much 14 years later. So that’s my story lol
Time to go destroy some nubs in battleship
Why are the the nubs playing battleship when they should be QUALIFYING!
Next video: vsauce. Kevin here, im in area 51. And im about to launch a nuclear missile
The navy is really killin it with these sponsored videos...
...might have to go to officer candidate school now
I also tend to look where there are a lot of missing spaces near my misses
But who won??
First William Osman then vsauce 2 the navy is doing great
What is the navy planning?
Sponsored by the US Navy....I see they’re looking for oil
ive always used the checkerboard strategy, but this just goes betond what i could ever think
The guy looks so flustered
Damn he got sponsored basically by the government.
The Pentagon's trying to get on UA-cam trending.
This is a very cool episode: make more with the Navy! It's great and they're cool dudes! :D
Until they attack your country
You never explained the "battleship algorithm"
If you want to learn how the optimal strategy actually works, here's a python implementation of the code if you're able to get it up and running: github.com/DataSnaek/battleships_ai
Used to give Battleship to my Algebra 1 classes when learning about coordinates. This video would’ve been the answer key. Was always fun to hear what the kids thought the optimal strategy was.
I've been playing a different version of battleships on paper. you get a ship that takes up 4 spaces, 2 ships that take up 3 spaces, 3 ships that take up 2 spaces and 4 ships that take up 1 space. you can make the ships in any shapes, so for example the biggest ship can be any of the pieces from tetris. you still get a 10x10 grid, but ships can't touch eachother. It's harder o use this strategy in that game, so i just go with a checkerboard pattern
I would like to thank Petty Officer Davis and his shipmates for their part in securing The United States of America. You guys rock.
Do an egg drop with William
Him: “Anddd you sunk my submarine”
Me: ...what? How do y-? Never mind...
I mean if the sub starts taking on water then the crew will drown and it'll likely sink right on down to the sea floor.
So yes, you can sink a submarine.
I was hoping you'd mention the heatmap method. For my CS courses in college, my professor had us make battleship and I implemented this as the AI algorithm. A big benefit with this is you don't have to implement any additional logic like the seek and hunt method, the heatmap is pretty complete on its own. You can also pretty easily have the AI clean up kills by increasing the probability cost of spaces with possible ships intersecting with hit (but not sunk) spaces.
I never knew you could play battleship with one person
0:33
thermal-neutron reactor producing 30,000 shaft horsepower powering a microwave oven
Well if there is only 1 microwave and a lot of navy people all want to reheat their pizza all at once...gotta have that strong microwave...
As always, great vid, although I would've loved to see some more about the sub :D (Don't know if they would let you film the reactor tho) :D
yeah no idea why top secret military tech is censored from the eyes of anyone out there including potential enemies of the us.
@@guy3nder529 actually the reactor is just secret information, not top secret. Fun fact.
Source: Former submariner with Secret government clearance.
@@freedomlover2808 still unavailable for the public.
This counts as government propoganda, right?
In which way?
Yes
@@Cheshiremd To join the navy
Pretty much.
🎶 Yvan eht nioj 🎶
Let me tell you something to do in battleship once you get rid of their Destroyer the 2 ship you can work in a grid asking one in every two spaces
The navy dude is really good at matching kevins enthusiasm