The Palladium Fantasy RPG 1st Edition - Kevin's D&D Killer?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Ah, Palladium. One of my guilty pleasures. Let's take a look at the Palladium Fantasy RPG in its first (revised) edition. How was it similar to Dungeons & Dragons? How was it different? What made it unique and fun? Tonight we take a (too?) deep look at the Palladium RPG.
Sorry for the length on this one. It got kinda out of hand. Enjoy the content if you have the time and attention span!
Glad that I found this! Thanks for the deep dive.
I love Palladium. It has a method of keeping players on their toes with exciting moments coming from the opposed roll combat system. Feels very dynamic and alive.
I also love the opposed combat rolls. It may make combat take longer, but it gives the players the feel that their characters can actually DO something to protect themselves. The inclusion of automatic parry for trained characters really shows the difference between someone with and without combat training.
I fell HARD for the Palladium Gaming System almost immediately after paging through the Rifts Sourcebook (this is Dec '92) and finding out from my little brother that they had a rule set for their fantasy setting (this very video is about the 2nd Palladium book I ever paged through). Turns out that the same system is (roughly or completely) compatible with TMNT, Ninja's & Superspies, Beyond the Supernatural, Hero's Unlimited, etc. Holy Cow! The fact that Rifts made it possible to merge ALL of these into an environment heavy with inter-dimensional incursions was just icing on the cake.
Brings back memories.
Palladium's "Adventure on the High Seas" supplement inspired so many of our games. Loved the world too, and it served as a campaign world for our D&D and Palladium games.
My favorite Palladium supplement.
I ran a few sessions, and I would gladly run it again.
As would I. So many games, so little time.
Palladium (Fantasy 1st edition)! I fell in love with the book when I saw the original cover (red on black), the internal illustrations, and the game mechanics. Who doesn’t want the option to parry or dodge?! Nice review.
Thank you kindly!
I never played pure Palladium Fantasy, but I did play with a GM who did an amalgam game of AD&D 1e and Palladium. He did all the heavy lifting with knowing what rules were in play at whatever moment... and we had a great time in that game for several years. After that, we went back to our AD&D 1e and B/X hybrid. heh Palladium was fun, but I think I have learned that I don't entirely love skills in my old-school fantasy games.
I can dig that. I think our sweet spot for skills in a D&D-alike was the skill system introduced in the GAZ series, or AD&A Non-Weapon Proficiencies. They tended to add capabilities on top of what a character could do rather than imply that a character without them couldn't. For example, Prowl in Palladium implies no one without it can be stealthy. But, say, Riding in BECMI was defined not as the basic ability to ride, but the ability to stay in the saddle during unusual or difficult circumstances. There are exceptions on both sides, but that was always my feel.
So... an AD&D 1e and B/X hybrid? Wicked. What parts did your group use?
@@TheOldDragoon We used pretty much whatever streamlined things. Stuff like group initiative with a d6. Amusingly, if you look at Old-School Essentials (OSE) Advanced Fantasy, that is pretty much what we have already been playing since the 80s. lol It's as close as I have found to what we already were doing. :-)
Oh, we'll look at OSE at some point. It's my favorite retroclone.
@@TheOldDragoon Yeah... same here... the layout is unparalleled.
My group started adding stuff from Palladium to our AD&D rules, little by little, until the hybrid was pretty much just straight up Palladium for many years. I tried to replicate this when I got back into the hobby by creating a hybrid of 5e basic with Palladium, but I found it too clunky for modern gaming. Still, it holds a special place in my heart.
Also, after using Parry rolls in TMNT, my high school players demanded parry rolls in every rpg afterwards.
Yeah, once you're used to an active role in your PC's defense, it becomes hard to go back to just having an Armor Class. I think my players enjoyed it, but they also really enjoyed Shadowrun's rule where the attacker rolls melee skill, then the defender rolls, and if the defender gets more successes, they damage their attacker.
@TheOldDragoon yeah, I like that kind of system better myself
Im an old man i remember these in the 80s, what a cool video never played this system personally
Glad you are ok from your surgery
@christianleeabracadabraaci4526 Thank you! Been having a few mental health issues, they don't really talk about how the anesthesia can affect you, but overall doing well.
I really enjoyed getting Palladium RPG books when I was younger. Palladium Fantasy was one of the ones I never bought. There were a lot of things that I really liked about the system (beyond the obvious multiple settings, but still compatible), but I think what you say about realism and being more of a simulation really rings true. Today I feel like the system gets in its own way.
I think super heavy crunch and attempting to model physics is largely an artifact of 70s-early 90s game design. The time that gave us GURPS, Champions, Leading Edge Games, etc. The 90s through now have really started to stress speed of play and RP. Not universal by any means, but certainly a trend.
My friend, I encourage you to track down a copy of the Wayfarers RPG. I’d buy the single-volume version on the secondary market. I think you’d like it.
Is this Wayfarers from Ye Olde Gaming Company?
@@TheOldDragoon Yep!
I still have the OG editions of PRPG, Old Ones, and Adventures on the High Seas
I absolutely love Adventures on the High Seas. So many awesome additions to the game, not to mention fascinating line art. One of my favorite sourcebooks.
This was a very well done walk-through.
Thanks! I do try.
Palladium Fantasy was always a great goto game in my old group.
Some preferred it to D&D spefically foe the reasons stated.
@@jeframdenkar It does have some cool things going for it. It's different enough to be distinct while still covering some of the same ground.
@TheOldDragoon To be blunt Palladium Books for more than a decade and a half was my groups main choice for games.
The fact you can mix and match things from different games is pretty wild.
Back when i found Palladium Fantasy a year after i found D&D, i like Palladium Fantasy more! It had skills, better alignments, better magic system and better psionic system!
I think that's what Kevin S. was going for. He tried to "improve" D&D point-for-point along the flow of character creation and adventuring.
I got a copy before it officially came out at a local convention by playing a 4 way player vs player vs scenario game with all of us playing top (15th) level spell casters. I ended up with an earth warlock & destroyed all, including an erstwhile teammate who totally underestimated this "kid"; I had capped (cap volcano spell) the mt Doom type volcano scale model that was much of our play area & unleashed it at the end, ending the scenario via weapon of massive natural disaster. Not bad for never having seen or heard of the game period (though i did frantically speed read the magic section, my class & specific spells as best I could ahead of start). I live in Windsor/Detroit area, Palladium books was centered here.
Heh, years later (at a university con, vs college one from above), I played a robotech game where we encountered rifts mecha (including some CS troops/mecha & glitter boys) before Rifts came out. Palladium games stuff was probably always "a little extra" here at ground zero
19:50
There is a section called 'The character with two classes' found in 1e AD&D Player's Handbook. This seems similar to Palladium multiclass. This was only available to humans. If a player used any capabilities of functions of their former class. The character wouldn't gain any experience from the adventure.
Thanks for the page reference! Yes, they are pretty similar.
Sembieda says that he was running AD&D and kept adding homebrew rules until his players told him he had a new game & should publish it. So he did.
I still use this as my D&D Setting
Nice. My favorite locales are the Wolfen Empire and Bizantium.
@@TheOldDragoon Yes, I normally describe the Wolfen as Republican Rome where the Western Empire as Imperial Rome. And with all of the Summoners The Western Empire is where most of the Teiflings come from.
@@TheOldDragoon Currently I am running "Firebrand and hid Raiders"
Don't cross the streams! Lol
What a treat this video is. Thank you for taking time to do an in depth overview of this favorite game. I came to Palladium RPG early in the '80s and it has remained a favorite even though I have played many other systems. Like you, my Palladium preference is for the first edition.
I seem to recall that Kevin started his campaign with original D&D and Palladium is where he took his home game. Thus I fancy that Palladium offers an alternative development path as compared to AD&D which is obviously where Gary took his gaming. Each person's vision produced very different games, but both have merits.
The Palladium world setting is chock full of great adventure and is a worthy counterpoint to Greyhawk or any other published setting.
Great job on this channel!
Cheers!
Thank you. I was really worried about the length. I'm glad you appreciated the in-depth analysis.
A game as rich in detail and importance deserves more attention than a short video could have managed. This is definitely not too long, and I think it merits a second watch/listen!
Did I say, "thank you" for making this. Thank you! 👍
Quite welcome.
Loved this deep dive and watched it twice so far. Want to go back to Robotech, but the audio is still a bit funky when listening... Looking forward to the next "deep dive" or a BECMI module review, or how you ran something for your games..... Love the channel and thank you for all your hard work.
@@bobkarstenson1792 Wow. High praise! Thank you.
monsters and animals 1e/early prints was pretty darned good, you get your MM. very hard, impossible to find today though, it's all 2e pdfs (or a later print, if that, those are really hard to find as pdf)
I borrow a bunch of stuff from this game for my AD&D/D&D games. I used the skill system at times and the lifted stuff from the magic / rituals. The alignment is better defined then D&D
Agreed on alignment. And quite a few things deserved to be borrowed.
Did you play RiftsMUD by chance? 😊
Sadly, no. But I played quite a few MUDs back in the day.
@@TheOldDragoonwas hoping you were dragoon from their. All good. My quest to find the staff continues! Any lpc coding or RP campaign building skills?
@thurtea I used to code in... good lord. TinyMUD? DikuMUD? It's been ages. And I never really got anywhere. I can remember my BASIC from the 80s, and a bit of C and PASCAL, but most of what I remember about MUD scripting is, we'll, muddy.
Man what inspired chaos this game is
Indeed it is. And I loved every minute of it as a teenager, and continue to do so today.
It really is a "kitchen sink" setting in that they threw everything in the universe. Reminds me of my uncle, he DMed This very thing and later we did a rifts setting i played a mutant orangutan from the TMNT as a tech wizard. It was great fun making MDC bone zombie spaceships.
Bone. Zombie. Spaceships. Brilliant.
@@TheOldDragoon Who doesn't love a regenerating starship?
I still really like the SDC/hp mechanic. I’ve been messing with in my homebrew game.
My first time to NTRPG con was this year. Definitely going back.
NT is an amazing con. I ran FASA Star Trek and Shadowrun First Edition.
I like SDC/HP in all the modern and future games, but for some reason adding them in PF1e just made fights take too long. No corresponding increase in damage.
I've always pointed to Soundwave from the original Transformers for Aberrant.
Oooh. Good call. He kills Autobots, but won't leave a wounded Megatron behind.
the religion section, right from the basic definitions of terms, is still the best of any RPG game
played a ton back in the day
One of the original fantasy heartbreakers. 🤣
Indeed. It was basically the grandparent of later heartbreakers. It's almost a point-for-point rebuttal of D&D that is easily recognizable as using D&D as a starting point. 3D6 default for attributes, d20 for combat, skills are percentages...
Its so over convoluted its rad.
I think that's a valid point. Full details on circles, wards, power words, who knows what about what, different kinds of caster, different kinds of priest, even specific kinds of knight/warrior... There's so much here, you have tons of hooks to hang a narrative on, and details with which to immerse your players.
@TheOldDragoon while I am an avid ad-d 1e fan I really do appreciate Palladium and Rifts in particular. It is OD&d Gonzo taken to the extreme.
And speaking of levels, I always preferred Palladium's way of doling out points, based on actions, instead of gp=xp. I still use a version of this in my home brew and my Shadowdark campaigns. A lot of Free League games use this kind of advancement.
Yes! XP for more than just killing monsters and taking treasure. I totally agree.
I made the transition from D&D to Palladium back in mid-80s. I still have my black and red (revised) edition. The best edition, imho. I still use the known world map for my homebrew, but left the system many years ago.
PS- I HATED the inclusion of SDC in later editions. It was cool when used in conjunction with AR for armor, but when it was added to HP, it got ridiculous.
I agree. I don't mind SDC in the more modern games where the lethality cranks up with firearms and things. In Palladium Fantasy, however, giving SDC to everything just slowed the game down. I also felt like watering down the HTH skills to the more RIFTS-compatible list lost some very good variation.
To this day Palladium books are laid out in such an obtuse way. Like the authors puts rules in whenever they remember them.
Yeah, it appears that way.
Ha, no. Palladium's game system is an atrocious, unplayable mess. That said, they had some good ideas that were worth stealing and porting into other settings (not systems).
I found 1st Edition Palladium Fantasy, pre-MDC, pre-RIFTS, to be perfectly playable. As things got bolted on, it did get a lit messier.
I have been playing Palladium Books games for over 20 years, I have played every title they have and have introduced hundreds of players to the PB system over the years and I have never had a single player that had any problems learning or playing their game system. I have never had any problems playing or understanding their games or system.
In my experience, the only people who find it to be an unplayable mess are:
1. People who want an encyclopedia of rules (a lawbook in the vein of Pathfinder) rather than a framework for rulings.
2. People who had bad GMs.
3. People who don't actually read their book, but just want to jump in and 'wing it.'
The layout can be... difficult. We even got Kevin to admit that on a livestream. That's something Sean Roberson is working on to make better in the future. The new TMNT & Other Strangeness (Redux) will be the first example of that. But the rules themselves, even in the 2E (post-Rifts era) are perfectly playable.
@@LegionofMyth We found it unplayable due to errors being literally copied form one book to another and some character classes were significantly better than another. Game balance did not exist. Errors make you unsure what you can trust. I played in the 80s, a lot of TMNT, up to the mid-90s. We played the other Palladium games, too. There were things that we liked but overall we felt that it was just thrown together and nobody cared enough to edit anything.
Palladium Games are intentionally not balanced and that is a positive imho.