Revenge of The Red Pill - Cassie Jaye | Maiden Mother Matriarch 78
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- 📰 Subscribe to Maiden Mother Matriarch here to listen to full extended episodes: louiseperry.substack.com
My guest today is Cassie Jaye, a filmmaker best known for the hugely controversial 2016 documentary 'The Red Pill' which followed Cassie's journey from feminism to becoming (partially) persuaded by men's rights activism. We spoke about how she feels about the film - and about MRAs - eight years on.
In the extended part of the episode, we also spoke about why childbirth is the female counterpart to battle, the low status attached to stay at home mums, and what a pro-mother feminism might look like. You can listen to the full extended episode at louiseperry.substack.com.
2:20 The Red Pill and responses
10:19 The lightbulb moment
15:92 The backlash
18:42 Louise’s reaction to the film
20:29 Are men’s rights activists emasculated
26:35 Is their critique of feminism fair?
39:32 Are gender roles bad?
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📰 Subscribe to Maiden Mother Matriarch here to listen to full extended episodes: louiseperry.substack.com
The bit about men being unattractive if they dare to say how hard life is for them as a man is tragically true.
For years I followed a woman who tweeted sympathetically about what it must be like for socially awkward outcast men. When we eventually ended up DM-ing, we still ended up in the usual roles with me being sympathetic for what she was going through and trying to help her even though I was disabled and alone while she wasn't. After two months of this, she suddenly became wildly hostile to me and then spent months tweeting about the disgusting, despicable person who'd been DM-ing her and said that I had targetted her because she was vulnerable. The end. Sorry for venting.
Thank god social media has allowed men to see how women really think and feel, without the fake veil of virtue, honesty and modesty. It's saving men's lives.
This comment should go viral. Even these awakened women have quite a while to go to tolerate, and even embrace men as a necessary part of a thriving, successful civilization.
Pax vobiscum
@@tomz1daful Yeah, for clarity, it wasn't a compliment to women. Their behavior on social media is absolutely repugnant... but apparently also an accurate reflection.
Big data has been a huge help. Individual lies are beaten by group statistics.
Please, please, grow up. If you are not a bot, get a life man. Go outside breathe deeply. There are literally thousands of women out there, of all shapes and sizes. The world is as beautiful as it is ugly-you have to accept it all.
@@MrMark595 Simp points earned. Now go away and find out the hard way about the percentages and odds.
The Red Pill is one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen and it’s a crime that feminists were allowed to negatively affect its distribution to such an egregious extent.
Grown women using the term “the ick” is giving me the, ummm, you know.
Yea not professional
yeeessss, jfc!!! The infiltration of infantile slang in the world of adults has been creeping up for decades: "the ick", "the feels", "hangry". Women revert to baby talk as a way to complain and further shield themselves from criticism or the responsibility of having to explain and verbalize themselves cogently.
If all you take from "The Red Pill" is that it gives you the ick, watch it again!
Its so interesting hearing them describe the ick when men are talking about their issues, showing the empathy gap in action.
Yeah louise should use her female privilege to help people understand this empathy gap, instead of telling people it gives her the ick.
Women only accept male frailty until page 2. Deal with it, but change it if it bothers you. The lack of humanity towards men is historic, our society was built on blood and male sacrifice
Women only accept male frailty until page 2. Deal with it, but change it if it bothers you. The lack of humanity towards men is historic, our society was built on blood and male sacrifice
Women only accept male frailty until page 2. Deal with it, but change it if it bothers you. The lack of humanity towards men is historic, our society was built on blood and male sacrifice
Women only accept male frailty until page 2. Deal with it, but change it if it bothers you. The lack of humanity towards men is historic, our society was built on blood and male sacrifice
It's interesting to hear a feminist (correct me if I'm wrong, Louise notes being one, or having been an "ardent" one) notes it is "icky" for men - to risk vulnerability on a societal level - speaking to ignored issues and feeling it internally as "icky" or "emasculating".
Note this is the same society pushing the notion men need to express their feelings and concerns, to be vulnerable
but that it causes "the ick" and a sense of "emasculation" if they do so.
There is no rationalization that can make this okay. There is no response other than
"yeah we want to say it to virtue signal how advanced and enlightened we are but really
men
we want you to shut up and be wheat for the millstone"
Great observation. I guess women don't like it if men show even the slightest emotion to losing their kids in divorce.
It occurs to me that we women probably don't want to see men being vulnerable; what we really want is for men to see and acknowledge our emotions and vulnerabilities (and put up with them?). I dunno... thoughts?
@@susieare I agree with your observation. While feminists and the MSM have declared (for decades) that men need to be less stoic, show their emotions, and be more vulnerable, most women are unsettled by such displays coming from a male and get "the ick". Once again, feminism ignores basic biology with blathering nonsense.
@@Morrisfactor That is one of a few exceptions. If they hurt you, they want to see you hurt so they can know they have hurt you.
Knowing they have hurt you if that was the goal makes them feel good and if they don't see your frustration or pain it can lead to them escalating in an attempt to get that pain response from you.
Men who were boys from divorced homes know this because many of them saw it directly (or know families who did) and that contributes to why marriage is at historic lows.
@@susieare Mostly correct. Generally many women want men to "do the emotional labor" while simultaneously remaining stoic but "knowing" they can be emotionally vulnerable to the woman in their life; to a point.
That point, the threshold, is right before it can be perceived as potential weakness in him because if she perceives weakness, then she intuitively contemplates how others will inevitably also see that weakness and (more importantly) how she selected the less-than-optimal man.
Perpendicular to that (as it's not the flipside really) is studies observing how women like their partner being emotionally vulnerable to them: as in (some cases of) bordering on sexual arousal. Elements of this "pleasure response" is perhaps due to a sort of evolutionary advantage: the sense of security in knowing he trusts her enough to risk being perceived as weak and hoping she won't perceive him as such. Or pushing into the "Toxic Feminine" realm in instances of mental or relationship instability, sado-narcissism where she will stay provided the ego fulfillment is perceived by her to be greater than the potential risks or burdens of his pain.
TL:DR
essentially reread the original comment I made from the perspective of seeking advantage rather than possession or demonstration of genuine empathy.
The fact that two women discuss the fact that they feel the ick at men being victims without any sense of shame for how they feel says everything you need to know.
I don't think any less of these women for admitting honestly how they feel. I'm a man and I feel the same way about male victims. I wish I didn't but social indoctrination runs deep.
@@jrd33 Its biology boyo, geeenes.
@@jrd33 Do you not have any control over your feelings? They are not reality.
@@jrd33 I dont trust anybody getting icks over anything except for creepy behavior. That is the only ick-worthy circumstance
Most of you are not victims of anything except misogynist brainwashing, self-pity, laziness, and a sense of entitlement to women.
Something about "RED PILL" , the film , was a shock : it exposed how men feel/ think about relationships & family law bias ( but not talked about , openly , now it out in the open, a wall that hitting post modern culture,exposing male hardships) god bless Cassie
The section about men expressing their grievances giving her the ick is still mind blowing. To use the word “ick” as an adult is wild in and of itself. A woman who doesn’t feel immediate empathy for the male bear cubs is a new phenomenon. Imagine a healthy balanced adult woman getting the ick when observing suffering 🤯
It's not suffering, it's highly exaggerated self pity.
@@sarahrobertson634 great argument, you must be a sweetheart 🤦🏽♂️
@@freedommovementmusic She's trash. Pay her no mind
@@sarahrobertson634 I'm absolutely persuaded that your life is full of flourishing, healthy relationships. What's your OF btw?
@@sarahrobertson634 Imagine saying this about a demographic that is 4 times more likely to commit suicide among many other discrepancies. While likely also simultaneously believing that the reason is men not expressing their emotions. The cognitive dissonance and stupidity of misandrists knows no bounds...
Cassie is the sweetest but the disadvantage of that is that became a largely anodyne conversation. Louise should get Karen Straughn on the show. Karen will blow Louise out of the water and out of her smug cocoon with no place to hide..
Hearing about that Louise's reaction was getting the ick disappointed me so much.
Sexual attraction is a nonconscious reflex; the "Ick" is just the mind reverting to the default no-sex-please default. You don't have a natural Right to live in a Utopia.
It is a very childish response she had. You would expect children, who have minds that aren't yet fully developed to react with that. An adult who claims to be strong and independent behave that way and it just reinforces the belief that women grow old but they never grow up.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 Not only that, every podcast I've watched with her she came of as warm and full of empathy, open to constructive criticism. I'd expect this response from some bimbo they get on Whatever Podcast but not out of Louise.
She's just another a chameleon. I remember hearing her on triggernometry talking about how the masculinity and self-esteem crisis involving boys is a tragedy because women need men to fight and die for them.
What surprised me is how many guys in the comments were still singing her praises. Hell, the hosts of triggernometry were too. Like do guys really have that low an opinion of themselves that in exchange for a pretty ladies praises, they'll agree that it's their duty to fight and die for womankind?
She can get lost seriously and so can any other woman that thinks similarly. It's not mens duty at all. They do it most often because they're starved of affection and brainwashed into believing they aren't a man if they don't.
Yea I thought she was fair until that comment
This whole conversation is pretty frustrating. If you want equality than take that equality and carry it all the way through with a partner that is "equal" to you. But if you want traditional treatment, than be traditional yourself. While this might seem obvious, almost nobody is traditional today, so almost nobody deserves traditional treatment. There's an awful lot of delusional having your cake and eating it too going on today which I believe is causing society to break down in ways nobody predicted but can't ignore anymore.
If we define "equality" as: "Everyone enjoys unhindered access to opportunities for advancement. Pursuing those opportunities is a matter of individual choice", most HUMANS of both gender aren't interested in that. We all have an inner child that yearns for someone else to save us
They don't want equality... Listen to actions not words. Any attempt by men's rights to balance things is shut down.
Paraphrase an observation I once heard from Ella Whelan: Equality isn't automatically something desirable. In all centuries prior to The Industrial Revolution, most people lived in abject poverty. This was economic and social equality, but life was awful
@@pukeachu nah, thats just wimmin, nobody helps men, wimmin are dependent on everyone else, men have to be independent
Nobody predicted... well, the bible predicted this. A society openly mocking good and celebrating evil... children disrespecting parents, and wives disrespecting husbands.
Women who use the phrase “The Ick” give me The Ick.
Facts. So completely arrogant and childish.
@@aservantinbabylon Notice Cassie avoids it the most she can
Everybody understands that it is difficult to be a mom. Nobody ever argued that. On the flip side, every complaint men have is argued to death
You have got to be kidding. Men continue to devalue motherhood to this very day and quite literally always have.
Facts. But let's also be real. These modern women are so pampered and spoiled it is just beyond belief. Even the so called, "awake ones" like Cassie. I swear they cry and moan 10 times more about "how hard it is to be a mother" than the women of 100 years ago that had 8 kids, washed clothes by hand, made all food from scratch, and maybe even had to kill dinner that day. How hard is it if you stay home all day with all the modern conveniences we have today in comparison?
If this were true "get back to the kitchen" and "go make me a sandwich" wouldn't be used as insults.
Why are moms so lazy. 10x lazier then any dad i know. These ex0party womab are bed ridden laying there playing candy crush 😂😂😂😂
Male victims give society “the ick”
…brilliant work you guys ✌🏽
Yes, if women want to be treated equally, they'll need to learn to have equal concern for male victims. Jaye seems to. Perry, not.
I think you missed the point of that section of the interview. Both women were saying that women have an advantage (Cassie even used the word 'privilege') in that - for whatever reason, be it nature or nurture - people feel more sympathetic to women who present as victims. I'm not sure if you'd prefer people didn't confess to their honest feelings.
@@jenniferlawrence2701 I think most women know this at least intuitively. What disturbed me was Cassies suggestion that women need to be conscious of men's inability to talk or share emotions and preempt the emotions, lest they see the inner man and lose respect for their partner. That seems a mightily unreliable and unstable approach. Yet I can't see an alternative option where men can be honest and open with their partners about what they are feeling. Men need good male friends I think.
The tables have turned, and women can get their own resources. The jack boot of a male is not on their necks. I understand why men cry. They have lost their entitled status over women.
@@johnbunzl perry still calls herself a Feminist thats why
I've been a therapist for eleven years, working mostly with men. All of my clients who wanted to be actively fathers could be prevented. All. Some were blocked visitation of any kind for years, ultimately until I could no longer continue their care.
That is because men who are coming to you are the minority that wants their children, the majority of men didn’t want that responsibility even when they were living with their children let alone know when they are divorced, but like to whine how their ex took their children from him, while he doesn’t even know the medical history of his own children
Good.
Thank you for interviewing Cassie Jaye; I'd love to see an interview with Erin Pizzey.
Pleas interview Karen Straughn too,
@@vira1340 Good idea
This is so wild to me. She not only has she spoke to the small community of MRA's but she also saw the reaction to her film. Yet she is still giving the "what about men do" argument. The small percentage of men that are willing to openly challenge feminism can in no way directly challenge a societal narrative that has been propagated for 80 years. Why should they be responsible to caveat a critique of women in general with societal narrative about men. Thats just virtue signaling. Men accept the criticisms given to them from every corner of society. Now it's time for women to evaluate their behavior.
Or... what little change has occurred thus far is not nearly enough to compensate for the millennia that men have oppressed and victimized women and girls.😉
Men definitely doesn’t accept the criticism, lol
Women are shamed and criticized for centuries, this is the only time in history that women are giving that energy back and men are whining in their podcasts about that being ruthless to women, saying they shouldn’t have rights to go out of their homes, rights to vote, that they have a say what women should do with their bodies (we have anti choice laws, not mandatory vasectomies laws) lol, shaming them how many partners they had, do they know how to cook, clean etc.
You can’t take even 5% of what you’re giving to women
So I will tell you what your dear patriarchy is telling you all the time: “man up!” and take that criticism and be better (I’m joking, I am a feminist, I don’t think you should “man up”, whatever that means and you don’t give me “the ick” if you’re “weak”, again, whatever that means)
You’re giving “the ick” mostly to traditional women, because they want that “real strong man”, whatever. that. is.
Can you see my reply?
I can’t believe that yt deleted my comment
Women are shamed and criticized for centuries, this is the first time in history that men are getting the same energy back
Traditional gender role are based on efficiency and optimising the outcomes.
Modern gender roles are based on optimizing women's emotional feelings!
The only emotions I see here are yours, lol
Why are woman 10x lazier ???
MGTOW and do no harm.
Jeez Louise ... can't believe your response from watching the documentary was 'the ick.' That's brutal ... all I really remember was the young guy who offed himself after loosing custody of his child ... guess he should have just been more masculine and less icky ...
I appreciate their honesty and especially when she expounded upon the fact that we need to see men a certain way, how seeing men as human beings and acknowledgment of male suffering and vulnerability contrasts with what we need men to be.
It's an important conversation to have because it is exactly how we will solve the issues her film points out. By acknowledging male humanity.
Her statement surprised me and deeply disappointed me to be quite honest.
That's the final "red pill'; that men are only wanted for their sacrifice and then punished if they flinch while suffering. It's sadistic and functionally evil. If indeed that is a biological fact of women it's a very short path to misogyny. In fairness, some manosphere content creators respond with the distasteful but at least practical point that "you don't hate your dog for barking". A crude and potentially still dog-whistle misogynistic turn of phrase that ambiguously hints towards mutual understanding as a basis for genuine acceptance and at least the potential for cooperation. Prosaically, "it is what it is mate, what ya gonna do?"
Don’t forget people exist in a context. Louise is from Britain; her country is going downhill on every measure. I do like her, so don’t take this the wrong way, but I’ve always sensed that she’s bitter. She just hides it well.
Louise gives me the ick.
I could not respect Cassie Jaye more. She’s a very impressive, intelligent, empathetic individual. Her husband and children are blessed.
Cassie is simply amazing. She and Karen Straughn deserve our highest respect. Cant say the same about Louise. She lacks integrity and is an equivocating hustler.
My son was a victim of DV but the law doesn’t care; now he is homeless .
we must appreciate Cassie's work regardless of quality & intent, considering that even now, the concept of men claiming some protection of any particular rights (or any vulnerability at all) continues to be treated with contempt by conservatives, liberals, feminists, et al.
19:30 Louise admits that men will not gain any substantial support by proclaiming their disadvantages, but only 'give women "the ick".' women should really just acknowledge that their "ick" feelings are a direct expression of their own innately dependent condition.
I'm not surprised by this interview or the takes in this interview because of the name of this channel. It's absolutely not true that children are better off with the mother and not in just some cases, in the majority of cases mothers being awarded primary custody the children are not better off. We have overwhelming data that shows this while 2 parent households are optimal and will always be the best, when the father is awarded primary custody we see that children do better compared to being with the mother. It's also interesting that it seems Louise views Women's "gender role" to be fluid and interchangeable but men have to be static or she gets the "ick". Men get the "ick" hearing women don't want to be mother's and view their "role" as fluid as how their "feeling" that day. Which of these "men's rights activist" agree with feminist's view of fluid gender roles and equality? Every feminist i've heard argue for women's role to be fluid but the men's role be as traditional especially when it comes to the financial aspect, i dont think I've heard one feminist say well "i'd love to be the breadwinner and work these long hours".
Yup.
There have even been longitudinal studies comparing intact Father and Mother homes, versus Father only, versus Mother only. The most positively impactful? Fathers.
The least positively impactful? Mothers.
To be clear, I'm not saying remove mothers from the family as they aren't as beneficial (that would be the mirror of feminism's attack on FatherCraft). I am however saying Children are best served in Father+Mother households where both parents are actively engaged in parenthood: both FatherCraft and Motherhood.
If kids are better with the mother explain 160 million abortions that womab chose with "their" bodies . Its trash. This whole feminism narrative was funded by the bankers. Like blm
We get “the ick” yes my emotions are also oh I validate your validity sister there seems to be NO WAY that this kind of thinking would lead to a false bias
She is wrong about the bias in family court.
Child support orders are enforced against men - over 30,000 are in prison in US for failure to pay ( main cause is unemployment).
Zero women are in prison for failure to allow access and visitation for the father. The orders are put in place but never been enforced.
How do these men think kids will have food and shelter? Do they just depend on woman to do it all?
@@vivienneb6199eh? Have you intentionally misunderstood? He has not claimed men are right to not financially support their kids!. He is saying the laws are enforced against men. But women who deny access of their children to their fathers face no repercussions. How is that difficult to understand?
@@vivienneb6199 mindless Feminoid detected
@@vivienneb6199 How does locking them up help the children?
@@tomeggleston367 Do men think children eat few couple of months? Are those men eating? I'll bet they are. Why are they denied access to their kids? That's the big question. Maybe they don't feed them? That seems to be the common denominator.
It's incorrect to think women are more empathic. This is actually incorrect. They are much better at reading faces and emotional states than men. However as far as putting themselves in the position of another and calculating the other person's perspective, men are actually way better at doing that.
The circumcision part of the film is very powerful.
She claims to have spent months researching the issue and not reaching a firm conclusion. 5 seconds watching and hearing the screams of a boy being circumcised in a western hospital was enough to persuade her.
The screaming is horrible but hearing not the doctor's comments (It was an educational video).
The doctor informs his viewers to ensure 2 things are in place.
1. The baby is well immobilized.
2. The parents are out of ear shot.
Nothing about pain relief or ensuring the care of the patient.
Jaye blindly went along with a video of indeterminate origin provided to her by Steven Svoboda*. Go visit Stanford Hospital's web page on this subject, and watch the videos of how it's performed now. Jaye's gullibility and shoddy research has just further spread all sorts of misinformation
*This is the same Svoboda who admits to believing in Alt Med and also asserts that "The US and Israel are the most violent nations on Earth, because they're ones in which circumcision is widely practiced". He doesn't seem to be aware that most nations south of The US border are ones where the practice is comparatively rare, and that these nations are 800 times MORE violent than either America or Israel
Women dont care of boys pain.
@ramsa01Yt That's how empathy really works... We have gallons of it for those who are similar to us, and none for those who are dissimilar. Google Paul Bloom's work on Wise Compassion
Or maybe just stop doing it to yourselves and your sons?
@@ramsa01Ytwomen are the only ones objecting to it!😂
Really good call about the Ick factor of MRA's and your understanding as to why that is. No respect for emotional men. It's referred to as empathy gap more generally. The opportunity and curse of being a man is that success, including success with women, is linked to overcoming adversity. Work hard and succeed. Complaining is a strict no. So as a man your worth is defacto measured by how little you complain and just get on with things. But then you face something traumatic like losing your children in divorce and not being able to see them. There is nothing you can do about that because it is power outside your control. So you "complain". And because you complain you are seen as a loser and ignored. The only men's voices that are considered in society are the successful men. Yet the successful men are happy with what they have. It is the unsuccessful men who have experienced the dark side of life.
A solution: men set up situations of trust - generally among each other and away from women - where they can be open with their emotions as needed. Men don't expect sympathy from the society at large, and they cease to look for full emotional validation and meeting of all their needs in relationships with women. Relationships between men and women would improve greatly.
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp You mean traditional masculinity. Men hide their emotions from women. Men only spaces where men can be themselves. Men build men only clubs to look after each other. Men focus on their men friends. That worked for thousands of years. Do you see the problem with that in modern western society?
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp PS not to sound entirely negative I do agree that is a positive and good thing for men to do.
I'm old, very old, and have seen over 50 divorces among friends and co-workers. Fathers and men get totally screwed in Family Courts. Totally. It goes all the way back to the Tender Years Act of 1830 which gave custody of kids to the mothers. Since women control Democracies because they cast more votes and therefore politicians pander to them, there will be no help in ever changing the custody/divorce laws. "Break up the family and you destroy the country" - Vladimir Lenin
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fpMen had this. Women didn’t like it.
The response to the movie in wider society shows you everything you need to know about the balance of power between Feminism and the Patriarchy.
The elites of society are firmly in the Femunist camp.
Women's issues a firmly front and center of the political asnd cultural Overton window. Men's issues are nowhere to be seen.
E.g. abortion is a FrontPage issue. Paternity fraud is never mentioned.
Who really has the power in our society- women or men? In whose interests are decisions made - women's or men's?
Exactly right.
Two mothers saying custody shouldnt be 50 / 50.. imagine my surprise...
it is early days on some black swan type findings. As men ourselves we don't really know what to do with the data indicating that Dads are more important in the long term (and Mum's in the short term). Ultimately very slowly, piece by piece this will trickle upwards through Court precedents.
@@malhenning1608What data supports mothers in the short term?
Women are on average higher in neurotic personality traints (well established) so will tend to pick up on children being sick and freak out about it way before men.
Look at pet choices. Your wife will go for the fluffy little dog that acts like a one year old. The husband will go for a "man's dog." You will discover if you spend time with your children at preschool that "'a man's dog," actually behaves in a similar way to 4 and 5 year old children.
As I hope you know, feminists are absolutely not to be trusted in the encouragement of the natural process of single dads assuming more child care roles as the children get older. They don't seem to view men and premi babies as being people like they are. It's quiet sad really
Perhaps I missed it but CJ said she supports shared custody.
"pro-mother feminism"
Isn't that oxymoronic ?
Energetic lazy moms 😂😂😂
They got tons and tons of energy for vacations and partys getti g fucked up off wine. But chold care. All the sudden they tired. Its the stupid birth control pills made them men .
Of course, if I say that I have no criminal record, but due to a series of false accusations, a stabbing, and fourteen years of homelessness I just deserve the label “ick” for saying anything about it, well, it just shows how powerful gynocentric hardwiring is in the female brain.
Non-traditional Western women holding Western men to traditional gender norms. Now where have I seen that before?
Excited to listen to this. I just watched the red pill documentary a month ago and it really made me see things from a different perspective. Cassie Jaye is such an eloquent person.
Hey Cassie, Just last week in Western Australia they opened the first mens shelter for male victims of domestic violence. Its supposed to be the first in Australia. This movie was the first time that people spoke about the need.
Anyone, who is _shocked_ by Perry's blatant disdain for non-superhero men, clearly hasn't read her 2022 heartbroken love letter to Hugh Hefner, titled "The case against the sexual revolution".
Men and women fundamentally experience the emotion of romantic love differently... We think we mean the same thing when we profess our love for each other, but men love generously, and women love selfishly. This is seldom acknowledged but glaringly obvious when you start to understand...
Except that isn't true either. If men loved generously so many of them wouldn't be so quick to divorce their wives when they get seriously ill.
With the exposure of professional victimhoid as a way of life the 'ick' you speak of is very much applicable to women just as much these days.
No, much more so. Men speaking about men's issues is about justice. Justice for the millions of men over decades that have had egregious crimes committed against them by women via the proxy of the state.
Louise Perry increasingly gives me the “ick” with her rather blatant hypocrisy - wanting to keep her feminist bonafides as well as cornering a chunk of the let’s still protect the ladyfolk traditionalism…. But she has obvious difficulty sympathizing with seemingly any men/men’s issues - regarding equality or men’s traditional roles….I’m amazed she has any credibility at all.
She gives me the ick
Actually, she's just a feminist before the woke era, I don't know what the surprise is here. Feminism focuses precisely on the position of achieving exclusive gender privileges, but this is only possible in a society that prefers women to the detriment of men (the sacrifice and little value of men is historic and will hardly change, unless the men themselves refuse this role)
No. She's a men's advocate. She seems to be on a crusade to restore traditional relationships. Neither she, nor Jaye are on board with how modern Women modus operandi are destroying the traditional family, and turning Men away from them. Louise Perry is a better friend to Men than the vast majority of modern Women.
@jonathancummings3807 You’ve been watching someone else I suspect….Perry bristles any time men’s issues are brought up….in another interview she was asked what men contribute to society….. she was visibly uncomfortable with the idea & could barely answer…..as I’ve said before she’s an old school man hater really.
@@AliMacAzz thank you for seeing this also. People forget that feminism is all about destroying the patriarchy. Anything that will make the rule of the father dead is what feminism is all about. Hence, they hate the Christian God, the family headed by the father etc.
What people think is feminism now is the woke, while the woke can be a feminist, but the feminist might not be woke in the way we know it today. Perry is simply a feminist before the woke became really powerful
Too little, too late.
Great interview!
Louise's doubt at MRA's domestic violence stats was telling. I'll posit that women are MORE violent domestically, only they outsource that violence to the State.
They are also more prone to use weapons, knives, dishes, screwdrivers, anything they get their hands on
@@eddie-ni5oxBecause men are stronger.
Not even. Women are the predominant perpetrators of domestic abuse. This is bourn out in research. Particularly if you include emotional abuse. Louise refusal to accept reality is very telling
It is true that they are, but any domestic violence at all is pretty rare. It's the same ecological fallacy when levied at either sex. 1996 studies found 90% of marriages experienced no abuse, 7% experienced it one time and only 3% experienced it repeatedly. Unaware of the current numbers but I don't imagine it's much different.
Exactly right. If you took into account State violence women's violence against men would be 10 times higher than the reverse.
About time you had Cassie Jaye on!
When I was in highschool I watched that film. I think this follow up was equally as valuable, especially the part about not comparing the genders.
Equality inherently involved comparison..
Great interview. Loved 'The Red Pill', and it's great to hear Cassie's take on it after some time has passed.
Hi Louise George from the thetinmen would be a great guest to explore these topics.
These ladies are lovely and thought provoking! Salaam 🙏🏻
I hope Cassie goes back to making documentaries at some point in the future. She has such a natural talent for the art. The Red Pill was so well made in terms of pacing, transitions, and overall presentation. So many streaming services are awash with documentaries on important subjects that are just horribly made and painful to watch. The Red Pill is clear standout in the craft.
She's an outstandingly good listener too. Definitely hope we see more documentaries from her. Glad she's enjoying life and motherhood.
Thanks for the great discussion. It is so nice to see and hear from Cassie Jaye again. Met her in Australia and such a lovely person. So sorry and disgusted byt how my country's media treated her. Impressed by her work on the Red Pill, but even more impressed by her Ted talk about meeting the enemy. So glad to hear she has a family and is happy. She has great insight.
I remember how hysterical the Australian media was at the time. It was during the Roise Batty furor.
I have recently absolutely lost faith in our media. I have really seen the bias in our ABC especially rise rapidly in the last 20 yrs or so. The commercial channels have always been bias so never consumed their rubbish. These new media channels that actually have discussions that include self examination are definitely making connections with myself as a mature adult.
@@cabbage9398 Just after Rose Batty's son Luke Batty was murdered by his father. Cassie Jaye (completely innocently) asked on the Panel if that was evidence men can be victims of domestic violence and it floored the panel. 30 seconds of cognitive dissonance then the outrage exploded. Australian media hasn't changed. They're still playing outrage to two thirds of all family violence tragedy and ignoring the other third.
@@fatherburning358 Yep. Once you see them deliberately misreport something once it's hard to give them any credit for anything they report.
@fatherburning358 been feeling exactly the same for a while now too.
Men complaining gives women AND men the "ick" - this is true, this is why men tend to keep quiet & suck it up, it's unusual to see this feeling we all have articulated.
This podcast was excellent. 👏👏
It went over many heads, it seems.
Like many others here in the comment section, Perry's "ick" analysis has forever tarnished my respect for her.
Truly disgusting... and on every level possible.
It's nice to see Ms. Jaye back. Perhaps Lindsay Shepherd can also come out of retirement and the accidental, unintentional and unknowing "right wingers" could have a reunion.
I remember those halcyon days when feminists were peak crazy. How innocent we were, blissfully unaware that in a few years we would be dealing with the next stage of intersectionality wherein we are being compelled to pretend men are women just because the man wants us to. I remember when J.K. Rowling was the darling of the left because she wanted the UK to take in more migrants and declared after the fact that Dumbledore was gay. I remember when the term "red pill" referred to an actual civil rights movement rather than the apotheosis of the cad. In those days, Karen Straughan was the celebrity face of "the red pill" and anybody who had even heard about Andrew Tate knew him as the digital pimp cheating his camgirl employees out of their earnings (Bugattis don't buy themselves, after all). In those days, we still had some shallow pop atheism declaring itself "new" by using the most puerile anti-Christian talking points that failed to persuade anyone a hundred years before. Now, we live in the ruins of America failing to perceive our degraded state. Also, these kids need to get off my lawn.
I feel it too.
So good!
21:35 I like this five second summary, of the history of the world and conflict.
…except that the purpose of war (and military culture) throughout the history of Western civilization has NOT been “to provide resources for families.” In the modern era, war has been conducted primarily to gain or protect prestige by subjugating the loser(s). “Providing resources for families” is the motivating story told to/held by the lowest (and largest) assimilated caste in militarized societies, who are perpetually starved of resources by the members of the castes with more prestige/power.
REBELLIONS happen because of resource scarcity; war is conducted for status/prestige.
Men below 5 are being told they aren't worth dating. What do you want them to do?
Though I share some of Ms. Perry's reservations about MRAs (activists in general, really), her sincere and shameless use of the immature "ick" colloquliasm in response to genuine hardships speaks volumes about her sense of fairness, or lack thereof. She remains, of course, poised and insightful, but I can no longer see her as positively as I did before.
The missing piece of this story is that Gamergate were the ones who (individually) funded Cassie's film on Kickstarter. By the time she launched that campaign, GG had already had several large, successful crowdfunding efforts and had mastered the art of mobilizing funding.
It is so heartening to see Louise getting completely ratioed in her own comment section about her "getting the Ick" from MRAs. I've seen Perry around recently on podcasts, she seem to be reasonably rational and possibly adding something of value to the convo on the dismal state of affairs between the genders. This convo completely changed my opinion of her. She has revealed herself to be a disdainful feminist with no real comprehension of the gross injustices happening in society today, nor does she seem to care to know. MRAs, Ms. Perry, aren't men playing some kind of victim role, nor is men''s rights activism the flipside of feminism in the least. The fight for men's rights is a fight for justice, nothing more. It is a reaction against the complete fraud of feminism that has been used for decades against men and the family to commit literally millions of egregious crimes by proxy through the state. Such crimes as countless false claims of DV and CA where the claimants are rarely if ever punished, frequently completely wrecking the lives of millions of men, often permanently. Shame on you Louise Perry. Even just the fact that a grown woman in a supposed serious discussion is using this childish "ick" term is mind-blowing.
And Cassie, I expected better from you as well, you should have called her out directly. Marc would have expected much better.
Cassie, please talk to Pearl.
I second that.
Does the paid interview extension also include video, or just audio?
The cognitive bias you mentioned is called "Gamma Bias", it's almost certainly an evolved psychological framework, and a blindingly powerful one at that. Lest we forget our humanity though?
Women are the ones demanding equality. Men need to ensure they get it - in bad aspecyts as well as good. Then women will reject it!
Poor Cassie doesn't realize how beloved she's become.
I laughed so hard when Cassie said she's now a stay at home mom.
Feminists worst nightmare!
& when will Erin Pizzey appear on this podcast?...
I had presumed she would be a priority to have as one of the first handful of guests.
She's dead mate.
Pizzey is still very much alive en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey Bring her on, and pose the following questions
-She admits that her attempt to open a battered men's shelter failed, in no small part due to the fact that men weren't interested in using them. If that's the case, why are she and most MRAs still agitating for more of them?
-How does she rationalize exploiting Britain's draconian libel laws herself, all while lamenting the fact that Feminists have tried to silence her?
@@The-Man-On-The-Mountainas of today erin is still alive but she is old so that is one of the reasons why getting her on the podcast should happen soon
Testing my ability to give feedback politely.
I just re-watched her Ted talk three days ago. So cool to see this interview!
Ah. So, Louise, you thought that the bit about Boko Haram was the most convincing one in Cassie's movie. I can see why. I wonder, then, if you would be willing to invite Karen Straughan to talk with you.
Thank you Cassie
The nobility of going against our self interest - because we wouldn't betray our authentic estimation of ourselves, is something that should be commended as soon as an intelligent mind perceives it. Thank you, Ms. Jaye.
If a women screams I am strong and independent all thru her 20's then wants to be cared for at 30 nope sorry you chose a path now stick to it you dont get it both ways
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 *📽️ Documentary filmmaker Cassie J discusses "The Red Pill."*
04:22 *🎬 Cassie J describes the heated response to her documentary.*
11:31 *🎞️ Initial skepticism towards "The Red Pill" funding.*
16:56 *📰 The unexpected surge of interest and critique after the film's release.*
19:47 *🤔 Men's rights activism and its reception: a psychological perspective.*
21:49 *🔄 Gender roles and biological foundations according to Cassie J.*
23:11 *🧠 Men's rights activists often stem from deep emotional wounds, driving their activism.*
23:40 *💡 Anger is a driving force for many activist movements, including feminism, fueled by the need for funding.*
25:16 *🔄 Women are often favored over men, known as the "women are wonderful" bias, evident even in crisis responses.*
26:27 *🎭 Some men's rights activism mirrors a flawed version of feminism, focusing on grievances rather than understanding complementarity.*
29:51 *🔄 Gender tension often arises from comparison and victimhood mentalities, contributing to relationship conflicts.*
32:21 *🍏 Understanding diverse perspectives can foster empathy, bridging gaps between feminist and men's rights activism.*
35:32 *🏛️ Both feminism and men's rights activism often attribute gender disparities to a sinister societal power, ignoring individual circumstances.*
38:39 *📉 Disparate gender outcomes aren't necessarily wrong; they reflect biological and social roles, sometimes leading to tragic anomalies.*
41:15 *🚼 Societal expectations and political correctness can hinder discussions on the impact of motherhood on career opportunities.*
44:47 *💼 Women may feel pressured to return to work post-pregnancy due to societal expectations, despite personal desires to focus on motherhood.*
Made with HARPA AI
Thanks for another great interview. I enjoyed the Red Pill and respected how it illuminated some of the hidden troubles and concerns for men. I also share your ambivalence towards incels and the mgtow movement and your attribution of trauma as an important driver. Also the point made about a potential over-representation of struggling outliers in the reactionary activist space seems quite plausible and applicable to other issues concerning either sex.
Gratz Cassie on becoming a Mother. I know she lost one. Many Blessings.
Yes I agree
On timestamp 39:00, Ms. Cassie Jaye says with a relaxed demeanor, "I also,... you know..., on principle -- I love the idea of just, you marry the person for life and you stay with them and you stick through it. Uhm... but I definitely see... scenarios that really divorce is the healthiest thing for everyone including the children --
Ms. Luoise Perry quickly replies in her insisting way with, "Yeah, I think there are a small number of cases where that's true. Yeah. I agree" as Ms. Jaye is staring to her right, our left. The next rejoinder footage that would have been a reaction to Ms. Perry's assertion, shows Ms. Jaye looking at her left (our right) abruptly. This was a discontinuity that was palpable to notice. Why risk the suspicion that this was not a transparent conversation by cutting the film like that? It really doesn't help any case when there's an instinctive ick, unregulated by the best versions of ourselves, to have a contributory part in our dialogues. Men, culturally, feel a noble circuit play out when we're rejecting our icks; we are human in the sense that the ick is not alien to us.
The lack of empathy of women
It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree regarding domestic violence, the data doesn't lie.
These 2 ladies shows that the truth will out....The LORD wanted us to know his thoughts..GOD BLESS THEM
The ultimate acheivement of the feminist movement has been the emanicaption of men from Marriage and not that of women. Cassie Jayes movie opened up many peoples eyes to the mens movement and the Red Pill movement. She has probably saved more men than penicilin. One of the greatest things I ever saw was the brutal misandrist full blown assault by Australian media on her personnally even though they had never even seen it. The Australian media is feminised to the point of just being dogmatic probaganda outlets. Great video from two smart intelligent women.
In today's world the mother is at work just as often as the father so why would the mother get the custody and do you know women physically abuse kids at a much higher rate then men do
"Feeling of ick" is discriminatory against men. How is that treating nen and women equally?!
Men and women have NEVER been treated equally in a social sense, and never will be. Changing laws and policies which impede a demographic' s access to equality is a perfectly noble goal, and one worthy of pursuit. Since '14 though, we've been on a quest to create a utopia free of all bias and prejudice against men doesn't exist
Since when was there an expectation that feelings be equal? It's one thing to argue treatment or policy goals be equal, but demanding that feelings - especially involuntary reactions - be equal is downright creepy. Feelings are by their nature, discriminatory (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) and unequal. No one feels equal love for strangers as they do for their children, for example. No one feels equal attraction to all individuals. No one feels indiscriminately obligated to all humans.
@jenniferlawrence2701 Exactly.... What you describe is one of the many factors that prompted my fall-out with The MRM. We've been operating under the (uninterrogated)belief that "We have to first give our entire species a psychosocial overhaul.... Once we've created a world where we sympathize with men just as readily as we do women, THEN we can go about revising specific laws and policies which aren't just harmful to men, but harmful to America more broadly"
It's not. She is a toxic feminist.
Conveniently absent from the conversation is the fact that Cassie's movie (really about herself, not The Red Pill) would never have been distributed were it not for Mike Cernovich donating $10K in matching funds so he could call himself a "filmmaker" and buy a producer's credit in the movie.
And no mention of Milo Yianopolis popularizing her crowdfunding donations well over her needed budget to distribute the movie by the same men she casually says give her the "ick" now. Cassie is a hack and a profiteer propped up by Paul Elam's predictable egoism, who sees a bit of cheap clout by throwing her own movie under the bus because the 'red pill' is an albatross around her neck.
The Ick? That ick? That is the conundrum.
Not many people can see a stoic man NOT respond to a situation and realize that the non response is attenuating the circumstance. People can see it. The people who can't (and a lot of them are women) cannot be shown.
20:29 I believe MRA’s tried to counter this by shifting to advocacy for “boys” or elevating female speakers over male ones.
It could still be possible to create empathy for a social movement for a group that one isn’t normally inclined to empathy’s with, most people today, especially younger women, have a lot of empathy for racial minorities, see the popularity of blm among young women for example, but that clearly wasn’t the case historically where most people empathized less with people outside of their racial group and minorities were demonized or persecuted.
I don't think they do empathize. They use it for virtue signaling. They don't care what happens to those groups outside of politics.
Perry gives me the "ick".
As a manager, I would know to cater to more "women needs" with flexibility considering child care, and to men employees with other benefits (e.g., car upgrade). Both want to work, and we want them in the company, with favorable consideration to personal differences as such without value labels.
"the ick"...
Good bye.
Facts.
While it's true post partum the woman might be staying home recovering and giving her all too the baby, Don't forget while she at home dad's now not only carrying the weight of the baby on his shoulders but the mum too.
A little gratitude and understanding both ways goes a long way.
The family courts are broken because they were based on unfounded feminist theory.
These days there are a ton of statistics showing single father do better than single mums....but guess what's best of all a nuclear family
There's something interesting to me, abt the idea of "anger," almost for its own sake. I might want to swap-in a sort of neutral connotation for these terms, but I'm conceptualizing a dichotomy with "anger" on one side, and "fear" on the other.
Anger is understood as a position of weakness, trying to get something, having little or nothing left to lose. Fear implies that you have something to lose, which you are afraid to lose. Anger calls to mind the 'young and hungry' idea, while fear tends to subsequently entail having acquired some security, and probably stable connections and community.
However, it seems that there is also a gendered dichotomy typically operating along the same axis. Do we want, typically men, to remain fearless strivers forever? Sounds psychopathic. Do we want women to be burdened with this role?
Should women be so afraid of being cast out from a reliable group, that they might tend to go along with groupthink, and compromise their rational faculties, for example?
Unequivocal male anger? Unequivocal female fear?
I think that a certain degree of male 'femininity,' and female 'masculinity,' WITHIN REASON, is normal and advantageous in a healthy society.
I also think that this consideration elucidates a more robust psychodynamic, that to a certain extent, is actually describable and accessible in brief, via the common parlance, as outlined above.
I guess a couple thoughts. Probably that will not be popular with other men. I love her perspective, almost everything she said, it's so balanced.
The fact that they acknowledge the ick feeling is good. I feel it too, as a man. And I think, in many cases, it's justified. Because if we're being real. Most men aren't affected by most men's rights issues. Technology has made it such that most men do not work in life-threatening jobs. Most men do not end up in horrible custody battles. Most men do not die in war. A disturbing amount of the discourse I encounter among men who have interest in this topic isn't surrounding promoting workplace safety, or education for troubled boys, or reforming the custody system, which are what I would identify as legitimate issues. A disturbing amount of the discourse is from men who themselves live comfortable lives, they merely had some negative experience with women that caused them to have an, an I think undeserved, skepticism for all women, or at least an overwhelming majority.
The disposability of men is evolutionarily selected for. It is not merely the way things are, but the way they should be. Because of that, I don't think men should be trying to win the victimhood Olympics over women. Again, this isn't to downplay serious issues. Serious policy concerns can be discussed. But men saying "oh we are so underappreciated!!" Yes, we are. Let it go. Why do you want their sympathy anyways? The bildungsroman, the boy to man story, doesn't culminate in the boy becoming a man by becoming maximally sympathetic, it culminates with the boy being maximally effective. And this isn't to downplay men's mental health, say men should never cry, etc etc. If you need help, get help. But you shouldn't be competing to need the most help. That, I think rightly, would give anyone the ick.
Your groveling to women is giving me the ick.
those with perceived agency have a hard time seeing themselves as a victim
I'm a man who has been very successful and has high agency. Thank God for that because I needed $six figures and relentless determination just to enforce my time and rights with my own children after divorce. Mom fought me at every turn using every tactic she could think of short of abuse claim. The courts are unbelievably stacked against fathers. Fortunately, my kids recognized how much I loved them and sought to spend every possible second with them. We have always had a GREAT relationship, definitely closer than them to their mom, but it should not have to be this hard. So yes, the system victimized me. I recognize that AND retain agency, because victims still can fight back.
New red pill video. Of interest to viewers of this channel. Louise P talks about population collapse & the Amish. So does Whatifalthist. 2 days ago. "The Coming Population Collapse....also talks about evolutionary drivers of population collapse, such as perhaps The Dunbar Number. Excellent red pill video.
Ick Ick Ick Ick everyone has the Ick😂😂😂😂.
Stay at home dad was the easiest job I've ever had. Really if raising them is such a problem that it exhausts all energy, but a job doesn't... maybe the soft guy era would be best. Until then though... grizzle grizzle.
You slay king
I get the feeling a lot of people misunderstood the point about feeling uneasy with males as victims, aka "getting the ick". She wasn't saying it was the *right* way to feel, just that it's the instinctive response. It's not just hardwired in women either, but in men as well. Men are by nature more disposable to the species, so we will never warrant as great a concern from anybody but those who love us most dearly. Likewise, if your parents or siblings were in a burning building, you'd probably save your mother or sisters first. For comparison, we do something similar when we see a particularly ugly woman, or a woman that is infertile and therefore without her primary values to the species. Her value to the species is also diminished by poor genetics or trauma, and she will also be looked at as less than, same as a weak man. These problems manifest differently for the sexes, but they do manifest in both. We may say we "feel bad" for the female more than for the male, but in either case we experience an objective sense of the diminution of their values. We're animals at our core and that's just how it is.
It's also hardwired in men to get the ick from feminists
Western women don't get the ick when advocating for ethnic minorities or "refugees" or Palestine. They can be psy-opped into having empathy for their own men too.
I think i watched her on a Ted Talk.
like i get it its your thing, but the christian workshop ad at the start of EVERY video is getting cringe. seriously after the 10th time hearing it you start sounding like a cult recruiter
Lol I always fast forward that part. Gives me the ick
She said as a class men can not be victims so does she belive that women in general can not be evil after I watch the video this I well see if I can block her channel cause no just no
I forgot about this lady but she was very fascinating to listen to. Red pill seemed to mean something different at the time
still means the same but obviously its a male issue so theyll take two of the worst examples of red pillers ie Pearl and Fresh n Fit and demonise all Red Pill with it.. just like they demonise MRAs