White: K-Pop, Horror & the Curse of Fame
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2021
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~music used (in order of appearance)~
"white" - pink dolls
"celestial" - t shirts & sweats
"rapier" - lovren
"the 7th sense" - nct u
"magic girl" - orange caramel
"inside light" - jay carton
"lunatic" - _91nova
"monster" - irene & seulgi
"white" - idk the ghost i guess - Фільми й анімація
The K-Pop industry reminds me of Disney Channel/Nickelodeon Stars. The stress of training so young, forced into stardom overnight, the pressure to be a ‘good’ role model.
this is so true
Yes!! Literally just watched a vid about child stars and it feels like this problematic construction of singers as "idols" (in either eastern or western music industries) is very similar to the way teen movie or TV stars are created & maintained by the film industry? Particularly where there's overlap between acting & singing, such as in the Disney franchise.
In both industries, fans are heavily encouraged to commit to intense parasocial relationships with the celebrities in question, and the stars themselves have historically been subjected to abusive systems in order to maintain their constructed public image. I'm really glad to see analyses such as this published - hope it may help fans to become more aware and discerning in how they relate to their preferred artists...?
Also, I NEVER watch horror films, but this one sounds amazing - not for the horror aspects, but for the social commentary, well ahead of its time!
And eventhough many child stars have come out with their experiences, nothing has changed. Nobody learns from history if money is involved and that's the most depressing part
I think when Lee Soo Man first made the "idol training system" and what he visioned idols to be, he was heavily influenced by hollywood and disney stars so I'm not surprised, it had the same affect
++++
alongside xenophobia, there's also such a level of victim blaming in terms of the trauma faced by idols in the industry. so many people say they hate k-pop because of the industry's problems and then they say something like "they had the choice to leave." you especially see this with idols who have unalived themselves. they're treated as butt of the jokes by so many people and it's so frustrating. not to mention there's also a level of racism with the victim blaming which relies on the stereotype that asian people are self-reliant and cannot suffer from mental illnesses which is based in the model minority myth.
Also the whole "well they knew what they were getting into" as if most idols don't join when they're too young to even comprehend issues like debt and sexual assault
@@R_S747 tbh they prob knew, but if you have the chance to have a dream, even with bad consequences, i might just take it
@@user-sg4ov7ng4h I don't think children as young as 7-13 tend to understand those concepts. Kids older than that can have a grasp however at that age you're not fully able to think through the consequences of your actions, so I don't think they'd have been able to understand how much issues like debt, "slave contracts" and the risks of being sexually assaulted could affect them in the future.
Personally I consider Idols a form of modern day sex slavery
unalived? also what's the last part of your comment? no one thinks that lmao
People always get confused when I say the idol industry in Asia is not really that different from the music industry here in western parts of the world, it's how they sell it that makes them look "different" often at times it's not that different. As always thank you for the video
Thank you!!! This is what I try to tell people who ask why I listen to kpop when they are so "mistreated". Like music artist here aren't going through the same thing. Look at Jojo she's struggled so much.
That many asian entertaiment industries often sampled motown and film studio system in early hollywood (thinknthe 1920s system)
@@xiomyra1 I personally think the may difference is the music industry is a bit more unionized in the US which makes it less exploitive but that’s just me being pro union
@@tokigart Dude, unions in the U.S. (especially in an industry so heavily controlled by massive companies like Sony, Universal, and Apple inc.) are all but dead. It might change in the future but the reality of the matter is: musical performers in this country aren't treated any better than anywhere else. Just look at Britney Spears. The "it's better here" meme is just another myth crafted from the pathetic "American Exceptionalism" delusion. It's time for all of us to wake up.
It's really not. If anything, what happens over there same but happens in a different way over here. The showbiz industry is awful.
I've been a k-pop fan for about 6 years now but last year was the first time I ever lost myself to the parasocial nature of k-pop. I just started university but then the pandemic hit. I don't think I've ever been so lonely. I had known no one at uni for the 3 weeks I was there in person so when we switched to online learning, I was completely alone. My course is pretty intense in workload so my mental health really took a downturn. That's where k-pop stepped in. Idols replaced my friends, k-pop industry drama replaced cares about my actual life and the only time in a day I would smile was when they made a joke. It's better now but it really made me think about the nature of the industry, how it lures in lonely consumers with a mirage of a relationship. I think that's what makes k-pop so addictive. As a consumer you are not only being sold the art produced by idols in terms of singing and dancing, you're also being sold the idol themself. Their love and affections, their personality. You're being sold a lover, a friend, a sibling. But they are in fact none of that, they don't know you. What a strange and uncomfortable position to be put in. For millions of people to love you and to know as much about you as they would a family member, but for you not to even know what they look like.
your comment was so accurate... i identify with your story, i have some mental issues and its really not strange for me to rely on k-idols on my worst moments, as they would be some kind of friend that is with me always
anyways i hope u ok these days and i hope my 'obsession' doesnt grow too much heheh
this comment reminds me of something IU said .. she said “think of me like a hobby”. so, don’t focus on kpop so much that u forget what’s happening in your own life, but still enjoy the fun of kpop
Spot on!
This was me. I was in a horrible mental state, struggling with self harm and suicidal behaviours. The only time I’d genuinely smile during the day is when I’d rant about k pop. All day I was so obsessed in knowing so much about them and knowing all their songs and knowing all the group.
I’m a lot better mentally now but I’m falling back into those obsessive tendencies
This comment sold me. Super insightful and honestly, esspecially towards the last part, is correct. It must feel so weird meeting overzelous fans acting like they've known you for years. Even if it's an innocent confession or a smile a bit too wide, it would provoke a range of emotions to deal with. Imagine a fan sign: Idols grinning awkwardly and looking away perhaps isn't them being flustered from a fan's cute comment, but rather an embarrassing encounter that they don't know how to deal with, all while trying not to let the countless cameras surrounding them in on it. But of course, everyone will just assume they're being cute and that the fan was successful in wooing said idol. But despite all this, they don't even KNOW you. But it's almost insane to wrap your mind around, especially if you're in too deep. When fans imagine meeting their faves at a fan sign, it wouldn’t hold the same sort of air if you were to a approach a complete stranger. But yet, they know nothing about you. You are literally strangers. But the industry is made for you to feel like you know them better than anyone. It’s creepy. Ive been there before. Thanks for this comment.
This movie sounds like Perfect Blue and The Ring had a twisted lovechild. And I love it.
my thoughts exactly!
It is and it's so fucking amazing. I'm glad Yara withheld the ending, because it was wild.
@@Mazecross I was so intrigued I immediately went and watched. I’m not even into kpop, but that was sooo good
Black Swan: *who are you?*
Perfect Blue and White: *i'm you but asian*
Perfect Blue was so ahead of it's time. It's a masterpiece.
i feel like for years i wished there was a show or movie about how shit the kpop industry is (the entertainment industry in general at that) or something that highlights the things idols have to go through. and not some curated reality show either, something that's honest. didn't think we'd get that from a horror movie of all things, can't believe i never knew this existed omg
The tv docu of 9 Muses is also honest
I second the BBC doc on 9muses. The camera crew was asked to be very hands off. It is unique in that it follows a group and company that is not well known/well funded
Horror always has critique and commentary and always will.
If you are a fan of anime, Sayoshi Kon has created a movie that is exactly about this topic. The description is: " As singer quits her band to become an actress and sheds her "good girl" image to further her career". I do warn you though it's really chilling as it speaks about the mental effects of the industry, rather than just the industry itself.
@@tezlymseniorsakutu7335 perfect blue, rigjt? I liked that movie
After the terrace house scandal, when the crew literally harassed one of the members so they could film her being driven into suicide, there's nothing that will surprise me about the entertainment industry.
Oh I remember that! I think she was a wrestler or something? They edited the footage to make her look like a bully because they needed a "villain" and it wasn't until she had suffered for a while and finally died that the "truth" came out. Even her housemates who knew the truth didn't really help to clear her name because it was all for "storyline".
This one is from Japan right, I've heard of it.
@@usagifelton Yeah it was Hana Kimura. After the whole thing blew up Hana's mom and the guy she argued with revealed the truth about the show. It was very scripted. The management constantly interfered and told people what to do. Some "residents" didn't actually live at the house at all and were asked to come for specific scenes because it's in their contracts to do so. Hana was genuinely upset that day but they told her to go overboard and edited the scene to make it worse. Then they told the other housemates to go tell her she was in the wrong (in a scene that wasn't in the actual episode but on their youtube channel). All that to push a villain narrative that led to a lot of online harassment (made worse by the racism she already faced for being south east asian).
on female fans hating on cute, traditionally feminine girl groups: a lot of female fans think the more girl crush concept is inherently feminist bc the songs are often about women showing off how cool they are and how mmuch they love themselves, which, btw, is great. go show the world you're cool and you love yourself! but they often think that cute ggs inherently cater to gender roles and cant be empowering to women/be feminist songs. however, we have time and time seen how that is just not true. there are cute songs with strong and important messages, like "no oh oh" by clc and "kiss later" by yeojin from loona, which are both about consent.
For me, I will hear the song on Spotify and like it but when i check the lyrics i just can't anymore most of the songs are also meant to cater to specific audiences,
But to be fair, foreign countries rarely appreciate cute concepts in a cultural standpoint, like the ones where there are extreme aegyo or kawaii. In East Asia, there's a culture of people who act cute or spoiled towards their loved ones to show affection or getting attention, which may come weird to countries like Philippines where we are very western-influenced. It's not inherently misogynistic for people to not appreciate extremely cute concepts bc of a lot of factors. I do find Filipino fans enjoying cute concepts that are only upbeat and bright from Red Velvet and Twice tho and even GG way back then, they are extremely popular here. However, I definitely agree that the hate on cute concepts in East Asia are founded on misogyny since being cutesy is a traditionally feminine thing there.
But that doesnt give them the reason to hate on groups with girly concepts. Right? Remember how people excluded twice from protect all ggs? Remember when they bullied momoland during their first debut? Just because there is a reason for women loving girl crush concept groups due to faux feminism and "GiRl pOwEr" that wont ever justify the hate you are giving to cutesy/girly kpop groups.
Its also disturbing how the kpop community are victim blaming ggs especially the ones who are known to have cute concepts. Oversexualizing them then blame it on the idols. They hate those groups due to internalized misogyny. Thats it. Whatever reason you have it will always come down to internalized misogyny.
yess kiss later is a perfect exemple! plus she was only fourteen when the song was released
something i hate mostly about kpop, is their view of age. as in.. well firstly how young their debut idols are - so they get se*ualised soooo young. But also.. how when they hit their late 20s ... and turn 30, they are obsolete. my personal favorite group, SHINee, everyone now, has reached that age. Key said, how he never expected to be a singer at 30. and when he won an award last week, for BAD LOVE, he was so shocked. As they hold this belief that it is pretty much around time to be done as an idol.... WHY? western idols have careers into their 60's. i mean look at celine dion and madonna and coldplay and u2, and eminem and so so so many ... you are not OLD at 30. They FINALLY old enough to have something really interesting to say. it makes me so sad....
and that is for a boy group! Don't even get me started how hard girl groups have it :(
@Emma Anderson I know plenty of people who are 30 and over who likes Kpop… because Kpop has a lot of different sounds. So yeah. That comment really DID sound like someone who doesn’t know much hehe. But that’s ok.
@Emma Anderson i mean you're right and wrong. the most popular groups are often shoved out of the spotlight to make way for a newer one to fill it, hell i watched it happened in real time from EXO to BTS, from girls' generation to blackpink. but the older ones don't just go away, most stay together for at least a decade. also, the same cycle happens in western music does it not? girl groups and boybands usually last around 5 years before they break up. black female artists especially always get swapped every few years.
plus plenty of people over 20 and 30 love kpop, they just keep it to themselves because others deem it socially unacceptable to like it because it's seen as something for teens, as if it's not just simply a genre of music :)
It also partly might be ike that because being an idol is very different from being a singer. All those western artists you list are singers with the exception of Modonna. Idols are expected to maintain their "visuals" in a sense while people like singers more so for their songs. People didn't listen to u2 because they liked this one member who they thought was really handsome or had a crush on. In that case you can still see there are "expiry" dates with idols in the west to like for example Britney Spears. The stuff she had tp face and go through during the 2000s was very similar what kpop idols still continue to go through.
Ngl when key got that music show win and got all emotional I started bawling hard man
God I was so happy for him lol it seems like things are changing a bit but it's very slowly and many talented people will just retire in the process. I can't with how so many amazing talented women just leave the industry to be a stay at home mom as if you can't be a mom and sing at the same time. You see that with how fans reacted to Chen and now Bobby having babies, we don't even have a female example of that because women just quit 😭
Not mention how young people get into these industries like with Jihyo of TWICE being 8 when she signed and training for 10 YEARS. Most of her childhood was spent training for something that wasn't even definite, imagine if she didn't debut. I really hate how entertainment industries of all countries are taking away these kids childhoods either through acting or singing.
Ten years?! Bruh I didnt even know a company could legally do that to a kid so young :'(
Those sexual abuse stories you talked about where you showed the idol’s statement made my skin crawl. Industries are abusive, exploitative, and nasty ESPECIALLY to women and it makes my stomach turn and blood boil
@@SmallcowLoL like GAG! That’s so nasty on so many levels
the nuance and objectivity with which you commentated on kpop as an industry is really refreshing, i never see commentators discussing kpop without sensationalizing it in some way and being incredibly disrespectful to idols or condescending to fans to get their points across.
try bbygang, they are one of a few nuanced kpop channels/ a collective with actually nuanced and sometimes anticapitalist undertones.
Exactly I’m so happy someone with a platform outside of Kpop called out the xenophobic critique of Kpop and also mentioned that all entertainment industries are terrible because you have a lot of people who want to be in and that makes those people easy for the industry to exploit.
@@bananapuding866 bby gang (separate channel: Elliot Sang) has high quality video essays 👌 nice to see someone else mention the channel
I am so grateful yhara talked about that in this video too. You literally never see such nuanced discussion of the entertainment industry without people sensationalizing it (as you said) or acting as if kpop is the only industry that is like this. So many wonderful points were touched on in this video including that one. It’s so refreshing to see
There is a movie that refers to all this world, the name is "helter skelter" and it's a masterpiece created by a mangaka. So this reminds me of it, but in helter skelter is as dark as this one. Btw helter skelter is japanese, so is more focused on japanese media that is maybe the same as korean, really creepy
it’s a great film, helter skelter
I still haven’t seen it. Was never able to find an English sub version 😭
I love that movie so much🥲
@@vintageincolor it's amazing!!! there's a sequence of scenes detailing how the beauty industry always chooses the new "it girl" and them forgets about her and go to the next, the protagonist represents the disease induced by the beauty industry on womem, she's always trying to not be forgotten and stay on her prime
YES YES !! one of my absolute favorite films cause of the way it explores the modeling industry and society's obsession with beauty
The fact that more younger girls are becoming idols is actually pretty scary. I’ve seen multiple ggs who have girls from 11-16 year olds in these ggs and they’re already getting sexualized and hated on it’s actually sick. Then they have to deal with staving themselves and face getting abused. I wish more kpop stans would talk about the dark side of the industry more rather than trying to sugar coat it and glamorizing everything about kpop.
I think this has been prevelant since the 1st gen of kpop. I mean look at hyuna, she debuted into a cute-sy concept, and then a provocative one was forced onto her when she was only 15-16 years old. This whole industry is about grooming woman, its one of the reasons why I can't enjoy kpop anymore. Esp since sum of the fans demand these concepts
So happy u spoke about the whole “cute versus sexy” debate. As someone who is a fan of Twice, I really did get annoyed when they got so much hate for doing cute stuff between 2015-2018. And now people say they were only good for the cute concepts and their more mature music sucks now, even though the girls are participating more with those concepts and providing personal insight through their songwriting. It’s like these girls can never win.
Also a note about the whole exploitation thing, I remember BTS Namjoon once said how there were a lot of “bad people” in the music industry and quite a lot of “Lou pearlmans” and no one..... followed up with that. Not even the Kpop fans.
(Also omg you did such a good job talking about this. I love that you also mentioned that western industry is also as dark and evil as Kpop. This was very nuanced and well put)
Edit- okay idk why this comment became some kind of thread to discuss conspiracies around BTS’ looks and management, including their label mates. All this listing of the “plastic surgeries” they got is further proving the point this video was trying to speak against: dissecting their insecurities and speculating their private info like what kind of surgeries they got is weird and sensationalising this to surface level. Y’all don’t find BTS, txt and enhypen good looking? That’s... fine. I personally do. They’re then the few who are actually saying you don’t have to be perfect to make it into the music industry.
And regarding the management, BTS is still under a private part of hybe so shareholders won’t have a say in what they do. They have far more creative freedom. They may not agree with everything their label does but their agreement doesn’t come from animosity or intense need to get out quickly. And that’s the whole point- BTS (and their fellow labelmate txt) have been trying the most break the jaded practices of Kpop in favour of the artist well being. Yes you can criticise hybe, but trying to still flag the whole BTS are tortured narrative is just hurting the professionalism and transparency they have worked hard to get so that other Kpop labels can follow suit and be pro artists.
So when I mentioned the whole Namjoon talking about Lou pearlman thing, he meant in Kpop in general. If he was hinting at his own company then the company won’t have allowed that quote to publish xD. Yoongi has also spoken about the evils of the music shows. Kpop corporates in general have not be kind to BTS, that’s why they’re hinting at it- I mean this is the same industry was close to creating a political scandal by going on a meeting together to discuss about BTS future without even involving BTS’ reps and lawyers
Hi, I'm an ARMY since 2015 and I'll tell you my truth about some ARMY regarding the industry.
BigHit sells us that they "are not like other labels". They try very hard to frame it like they are all family, but over the years we have seen evidence of the contrary.
From the boys dieting only with chicken breasts every day, to Jungkook passing out after being on stage, to Jimin's acting sexy underage, to young Jungkook getting hit by a manager, Jimin's voice being pushed to irreparable strain, to Bang PD talking about BTS like a product whenever it is time to discuss money...He even openly admitted to being "extra hard on them" because he "had such high expectations", to loosely paraphrase. What do you think that pressure was like? You can look up Bang PD's statements yourself, he hides nothing, yet ARMYs still spin it into a "stern but caring father" scenario. Also yes, they've all had plastic surgery touch ups, because rapper Beenzino was asked to be part of the group but left when Bang PD said he had to agree to surgery. So what does that say? If you know plastic surgery, it's obvious who has had touch ups and where. Even my biases, Namjoon and Jungkook, have both had multiple nose adjustments through the years. I am a hobby artist, I have drawn their faces through the years, of course I notice.
BigHit may be "better" than other companies in some ways, yes. I think so. But to ever say that BTS personal interests ever matter more than BigHit's money is just not likely at all. ARMYs might kill me for saying it, but I think buying the family narrative is ignorant.
What Namjoon said was swept under the rug because they don't want to read into it too much. "Trust the boys", they say, as if celebrities were never persuaded to lie about how happy they are under their companies. If we question BH we get called "managermys".
It's cultish and scary that we can't even have an open discussion about it. People say ARMYs are toxic because we are too fanatical or whatever, but you know the real reason we are toxic? Because we can't have the real, deep, honest and scary discussions with EACH OTHER. Some family we are.
I only pray that, no scary truth ever comes out, and they all act so shocked when there were signs all along that BH was less than perfect.
@@sunshineyrainbows13 I think BTS is in better shape than some of the newer idols and trainees at BigHit because they were the SOLE source of income for several years. That entire company was built on the backs of seven men who were boys when they debuted, and you don't destroy your sole income source. I feel like BTS is the only popular group that isn't across the board conventionally pretty at that company, I mean, have you seen TXT and Enhypen?
Don't get me wrong, BTS are all beautiful men, but they don't have that cohesive physical look that some other ole income source. Maybe BigHit artists don't face the degree of financial abuse that groups from other companies do, but the beauty standard is still a real thing, and a lot of people get sucked into it.
@@sunshineyrainbows13 an army actually talking about BTS and surgery?? Wow! This is a rarity and I'm glad to see it. Also thank you for debunking the whole trust the boys thing. At the end of the day they are artists who signed a contract. To think you know the entire truth about them is delusional. It's just made to look that way
@@Fantastikitty this may seen mean and I'm not really trying to be. I get enhypen but txt don't really fit that many beauty standards to me. Like they don't strike me as exceptionally good looking.
@@melliexcxthat's fair. I think it's the thing where they are all tall and slender and look really good dancing together.
What really got me into kpop was how absolutely crazy the industry is. It's like early Hollywood on fast forward- it's blowing up into this huge cultural hotspot so quickly you can really see the growing pains.
I'm a huge fan of SHINee and the amount of scummy people exploiting their very real trauma as 'top # reasons they hate the kpop industry'... It's vile. Also a fan of TWICE and to this day *Momo* gets shit for being a bad influence on young teens because of the ice cube story, when she was clearly pressured to go on that diet in the first place.
People forget idols are real people who are just trying to follow their dreams in a horrible system. Just like the millions of people screwed over by record companies in Hollywood (or in pretty much every creative industry.) Parasocial relationships mixed with xenophobia is... just an awful mix.
People who hear a story like that & go, "wow what a terrible influence get her away from me", & their first reaction isn't, "wow those producers are actually incomprehensibly evil. I hope she gets out and recovers and is happy", that means something is very, VERY wrong.
The western industry is equal or worse
I'm a fan of SHINee too!
@@LynnHermione no one said the western industry isn’t bad. It’s just that the kpop industry is different when it comes to idols and especially the fans. And hearing all the crazy stories, this is foreign to most westerners and quite intriguing
@@LynnHermione it kinds of reminds me of the scandals and dark side stories of the golden Hollywood era. If you research about the time you can see how messed up things were back then that look similar to some aspects in kpop idol culture.
I don't know if someone will read this, but I have something to share, even though it is not k-pop related.
I used to study singing in my country's conservatory, I was preparing to become an opera singer. After the first recital we had at the campus' main auditory on my second year, the teacher was going through every one of his students' performances, making observations, etc. Then he told me something roughly translated as: Next time wear another type of dress, something not as covered up. Even though the comment was not really explicit, I knew what he meant, the way he said it, and because I was the only girl in my class wearing a dress with long sleeves (it was winter), no cleavage, floor length, and he only commented on my dress, no one else's. That for me was a red flag, I felt really uncomfortable in that moment.
A few weeks later I ended dropping out because I was starting to realize if you wanted to get noticed and go far, you needed to do whatever they asked. That teacher called me shortly after I dropped out and he said something like "you don't have to do anything you don't want", but we all know how manipulative this is, because if you do it because you want to succeed, and then show any kind of inconformity, they'll tell you "well, we didn't force you to do it".
Thankfully everything stayed in words, but that's just because I got out as soon as I saw the first sign. I can't even imagine the trauma and the pressure these poor women have to endure because they have been groomed since a very young age and in a vulnerable state. I was 23 years old when this happened to me, so I knew better and I had a good support system, but they've been brain washed and sadly get manipulated and abused. As we know, this kind of abuse is prevalent in entertainment/arts. But maybe the abuse going on in k-pop seems more brutal since the whole industry feels like a factory, like fast fashion.
Sorry for the long text, and sorry for my grammar, english is my second language.
Wow! I would never guess that was happening even in opera! Sorry that happened to you
I hate that when we talk about hings like this, people respond like "well, it's normal." or "It always happens, what's the big deal?". I realized this is said a lot in the kpop community as well. We should take this topics seriously. We shouldn't avoid this conversation. Thank you for talking about it
Roadside Robbery was normal, you know...
WHEN ARE WE BRINGING IT BACK?
In my opinion, Disney kids are somewhat comparable to idols -- they have to be good at singing, dancing, acting, and have a squeaky clean image. Then there's also the Nickelodeon kids...
I think entertainment industries all over the world are problematic
Girls feel the need to separate themselves from girlhood, I think because some part of us understood girls aren't allowed personhood, even if we couldn't articulate it. Maybe there's some resentment there too; my niece started insisting that she had to wear dresses to be pretty at age three. I always favoured the non-feminine characters as a kid precisely because I felt like the world was telling me to be feminine. 'Girly' is used as a box in a way 'boyish' isn't.
I remember, God I had such a hard time with my own femininity. TV and media and people told me explicitly or implicitly that a girly girl was dumb and flirty and airheaded and I couldn't stop being a girl but I could stop being girly, even if I loved dresses and makeup, I wanted to be taken seriously.
Although some kpop cute concept are just 'girly', there are some that are for infantalising female idols e.g schoolgirl concepts. Some cute concepts are problematic, some aren't.
If we just destroy the words "girly" "boyish" "feminine" "masculine" and stop assigning genders to clothes and colors, we would probably close the gender gap which never should have existed.
@@miyuu1317 God, this post brought back some bad memories...
Agreed
Every girl I know(and myself) has had a time in their life where they refused anything feminine
I feel society has tried to make us feel ashamed of femininity because they make us view it as weak or that it makes us less of a person
I myself had a very hard time with it, as a kid I loved my dolls(monster high ❤) pink, glitter, fluffy things, stuffed animals
But in my early teen years I hated it all, partially cause I hated how I looked so I didn’t like how I looked in girly clothes and stuff
Through out highschool I struggled with it and the girliest thing I did was makeup (until junior year where I realized I still love pink)
Now at 20 I no longer struggle with it but I feel it has made me revert a bit into liking some childish things as a way of healing that part of myself that was cut off from enjoying it at a young age
"Be new to us, be young to us... but only in a new way and only in the way we want. And reinvent yourself but only in a way that we find to be equally comforting but also a challenge for you. Live out a narrative that we find to be interesting enough to entertain us, but not so crazy that it makes us uncomfortable." - Taylor Swift
I remember watching this horror movie ages ago! Makes me want to watch it again! Great video🔥
WHERE DO YOU WATCH IT I CANT FIND ITTTTTTTTTTTTT
I remember watching it as a kid on Netflix like in 2013-2014 ish 😂
Sameeee😄
I'm going to need to watch it
one of my favorite horror movies ever lol
The only K-pop group I follow is Loona, and this theme of needing to be edgy to stay relevant really hit me. Guess I need to watch White now...
Loona i love them
@@itchycooch same.It's nice meeting orbits at random places~
Oh hi fellow orbit, did you check out their last release,- ua-cam.com/video/tnpUv1Vj5MA/v-deo.html
they already released (the day I'm writing this lol) the music video for their Japanese debut song HULA HOOP, it's so cute and fresh - I loved it 😆🌈
same i love those moon girls and their music
i feel u as a 1/3 biased orbit.... i like their cute stuff the most as well as the delicate and a little creepy like one&only
omg yes! the internalized misogyny was what created such a huge division between SNSD and 2NE1 fans. I was a Sone and enjoyed many 2NE1 songs but so many blackjacks despised SNSD because they were either "too cute and girly" or "too sexy and slutty". I remember one hater was shocked when i told them that that's why i liked them so much, i love hyper femmeninity. Now i'm so glad that the new generation of girl groups seem to get along, it gives the fans some sense of shame when they try to pit the against each other.
The shit trainees have to go through becomes even worse when you remember that most trainees are children / teenagers. They're developing and it's their first impression of being out in the world, it'll always affect them
bruh it's almost 2022 and the way the last 2 years have gone idk how anyone has the energy to hate or abuse anyone. honestly. i'm exhausted.
why did i think the title was about white people and kpop?? i was confused but intrigued LOL
😂
my sister was too she was like the words white and kpop shouldn't be following each other in the same sentence unless it's to say "the white kpop fan" lmao
Sameeeee
I thought it was going to be about skin whitening and other painful stuff kpop artists have to go through to be seen as beautiful and relevant
Same lol 😂
Everyone: squid game
Yhara: obscure horror movie
🤷 Just makes sense
Yhara knows what we really want, and DESERVE.
okay but did you spot a squid game cameo at 8:50?
Makes Dollars*
@@TheoRose13 yeah, i noticed her too. but, when i check kim joo-ryoung's imdb/wiki, i can't find this film on her filmography. maybe she's an uncredited cast?
@@TheoRose13 omg i just noticed
ty for the clarification on how many of the issues within the kpop industry can be applicable to the western industry. i feel like at times (especially now since kpop is gaining attention) non-kpop fans try to minimize the other aspects of the genre itself and ignore the perspective of actual non-toxic kpop fans just to prove their point on denouncing everything kpop-adjacent (which at many times are rooted in ignorance and xenophobia). loved your input on this!
The kpop industry uses the 80s western training system
10:30 I find these kinds of critiques to be hilarious, because we can all admit that K-Pop's sound and aesthetic is largely inspired by (Black) American culture (I mean, you have some folks who scoff at the idea or, even worse, say K-Pop idols do it better, but those people are anti-Black losers), but no one ever wants to talk about how far that shit actually goes. The trainee system is the Motown system of the '60s and '70s on steroids. The way the groups are configured (so to speak) is a damn near copy and paste of the teen pop groups of the 'mid to late '90s and early '00s.
Nothing we've seen in K-Pop is anything we haven't seen before. The good *and* the bad.
exactly. even some ignorant people paint lee sooman as the godfather of kpop and how without him there wouldn't be kpop today, but that dude did nothing new, he took the motown system and meshed it with japanese idol system. that's it.
@@HarunaMaurer yeah exactly, even on his wikipedia page, they were able to find a source where he basically admits he got the idea of starting a kpop company after his time in the US seeing how popular Michael Jackson was. Michael, a talented star who was also massively exploited.
Ah. So everyone who doesn't share your opinion is by default an anti-black loser? So you focus on the color of someone's skin and you're a small minded person who immediately harshly judges and puts labels on people with different opinions? Thats hilarious. Your parents must be so proud :)
@@princesspeach7496 mad
@@princesspeach7496
Not exaclty anti black, that was exaggerating a bit. But Lee soo man himself said he didn't come up with it all on his own. So the lesson is: give credit where due.
That credit lies to Japan and America. Simple.
I know I'm in the minority but knowing something has a good ending, even if its a spoiler, will make me more likely to see it.
No, the ending sucks 🙂 I just watched it
@@kimkardashi-un2.051 thank you, I was really planning on watching it but I hate bad endings 😂
@@kimkardashi-un2.051 were did you watch it?
@@kimkardashi-un2.051 thank you cuz I was about to watch 😭
The ending is awesome, but it's not a happy one. I think that people who say it sucks are valid in that they may have not enjoyed it as much as I did, but for everyone who dislikes it, there's someone who finds it to be a fitting conclusion in line with the theme of the story.
It was truly a god awful time for kpop during the sexy concept era. AOA, dalshabet, MISS-A, Girl's day, Stellar, Hello Venus, Hyuna... all of these groups debuted with cute concepts and were forced to change drastically. You could tell the girl members weren't comfortable with this concept and all sort of disgusting things they had to do to promote their songs (like going to army camps to see pervy guys) I've always loved the cute/girly concept because it was a very "traditional" concept in kpop (big groups like SNSD did them for years). Now the sexy concept is kind of done, having way more female fans enjoying girl groups and a more feminist approach to concepts.
I actually think, in many cases, that cute concept girl groups tend to have a lot of male fans. I mean look at Twice, they started out with a very male-dominated fanbase, and when their sound matured a bit while still remaining feminine, that's when the demographics started to shift towards more feminine. With SNSD the only true cute concepts I can think of are from very early in their career, being things like Gee and Kissing You, and then occasionally later like Oh! and Party, which were also popular with men. Meanwhile their more mature concepts were more appreciated by female fans, and since they did those more, their fanbase became heavily female.
While Stellar is obviously a known case of a sexy concept being forced onto a girl group, and is obviously wrong, I also think it's not right to assume the other groups had no agency in their concepts. Hyuna is a prime example of someone who has both been critical of sexualisation in the industry while also embracing the concept for herself. SISTAR, EXID, Brown Eyed Girls (particularly Ga In) and Sunmi are further examples. Maybe I'm biased because I loved the music of that era, but I think a compromise can be met where female idols should be able to be sexy, if they want to.
Also, cmiiw, but Girls' Day followed up Something with Darling, which is one of the most sugary sweet cute concepts out there imho and it was a big hit in Korea. Only You was Miss A's biggest hit, and I wouldn't consider that a particularly sexy concept either (compared to Hush, for example).
@@ActuallyAnanya yes I do agree that the cute concept caters mostly to male fans and that is not thought for female fans but I also think is the "safest" and most comfortable concept compared to the sexy concept. Many of these girls were very young and didn't feel comfortable being so sexual, especially in South Korea, which is a very conservative country. Hyuna did, in fact, disliked being sexualised by her company at first (her first single bubble pop and as a member of Troublemaker) but now that she's older and has creative control over her concepts she does enjoy it. When it's the artist choice as the ones you mentioned (Gain and Sunmi) I do not see the issue. AOA, dalshabet, Hello Venus and much more girl groups have declared that they were uncomfortable with these concepts, I'm not assuming anything. Hello Venus: (www.sbs.com.au/popasia/blog/2018/05/01/hello-venus-alice-wins-lawsuit-against-agency-forcing-revealing-outfits ) Dalshabet (www.btimesonline.com/articles/130258/20200413/dal-shabet-dal-shabet-viki-viki-erotic-films-dal-shabet-viki-controversy-viki-former-acting-agency-kpop.htm) not necessarily within the group but by the company. STELLAR: (kpophit.com/former-stellar-gayoung-opens-up-about-the-trauma-she-has-over-the-groups-sexy-concepts-kpophit/)
Girl's day change to a sexier concept started with expectation, then with female president ( a "kiss" between two women) and then something. MISS-A issue is not with the clothing it has to do more with the lyrics and topics of their music. Don't get me wrong, these groups were the ones who got me into girl groups because they had really great music but there was an issue with the sudden change in the concept that affected all the girl's groups one way or another.
@@martaruiz7891 It is definitely not safer to make cuteness sexually appealing to the general public. At some point it becomes less about the 5,000 girls who are doing the cute songs and more about the millions of people influenced to see a young concept as something that's hot. Girl groups should have never been that way in the beginning. There is a different between genuine cuteness (like Twice) and cuteness just being girls made up to look 7 years younger than they are (which is basically every other kpop girl group that isn't mainstream to the entire world).
@@queerlibtardhippie9357 well cuteness being sexualized it’s not an issue from the concept but from the people who sexualizes it. It’s disgusting seeing girls so young being part of sexy concepts and showing to much skin. They are often put in very uncomfortable clothing that added to a very racy choreography it was a nightmare for those girls. Gfriend had a cute concept and it always seem fitting to them. I dunno what you’re trying to discuss with your comment
Miss A definitely was not a cute concept at debut, it was more girl crush
"idk the ghost I guess" got me. Dunno why I can't stop chuckling at that lol
69 likes confirmed
XD
sa talk starts at 11:58, ends at 14:47
thanks! 💕💕 do u mind pinning this so more people see it?
thx
I LOVE YOU AND YOUR CHANNEL SO MUCH
do you mean 17:23
hey, it seems your time codes for the sa talk are a little off? as i was watching it seemed the sa talk starts around 13:00 and lasts up until 17:25
this is undeniably gonna be a good one
Thank you so much for the nuance you gave to this topic, especially given how so much of the coverage of the kpop industry is treated as if western music industry doesn't have the same or similar issues. You can discusses the issues with the kpop industry without making it seem that the any other entertainment industry is fine. Also, this video made me want to watch this movie! You are one of my favorite creators, and I appreciate the care you give these topics
THIS!!!
I personally feel the only reason why western entertainment is less exploitative is mainly due to unions
@@tokigart because the western industry doesn't use the 70s training system
@@taehyungoppa7208 the western industry doesn't use the 70s training system and kpop is the old Hollywood training system
As others have mentioned, I really recommend Satoshi Kon's 1997 animated film PERFECT BLUE. It deals with the same issues (idols, fanatic fans, exploitative agencies) but it's more a psychological thriller. And just as with this film, so many years later it's still 100% relevant.
i'm someone who got into kpop fairly young (i was 15) and at first i had a really romanticist view of the kpop industry and engaged heavily in the fandom on twitter so this movie sure was a wake-up call for me. it's not that I didn't know that the industry had issues but hearing things and seeing people go through it are two different things. when you see it you can't be distracted by the facade anymore and you see just how brutal or disgusting it can be for these poor people.
since then I have developed a more critical stance on the entertainment industry and have distanced myself from the fandom (not that it was bad in general, I meet some really cool people there but the drama and toxcitiy just became to much for my mental health). i still listen to kpop and I still support the groups that I like but I sure grew out of that sunshine and rainbows view I had when I was 15 and I hope others can do that to and see things for what they are.
honestly there are so many parts in this film that legit send a shiver down my spine. the high note recording that at the end just is a fucking scream. the whisper of behind you, the on screen unaliving with chemicals, it's just....done so well.
man thank you so much for that talk about the xenophobia with which people often discuss this topic. The practices that are common in kpop are common in EVERY MUSIC INDUSTRY, kpop just makes it easier to critique for "westerners" because we like to sit on our thrones and pick apart the problems of other places. Kpop has a LOT of big problems that appear to only be getting bigger as the industry grows at this unsustainable rate, but no entertainment industry has clean hands here. Same building, different coat of paint. Until models of power like this are completely dismantled, the abuse of desperate kids who want to be singers will continue
(And I will definitely watch the whole movie now, thank you for a spoilerfree vid)
I'm from South Korea, and I've constantly been immensely cynical of our country's music industry. I didn't resonate with the obsessive beauty standards it propagated among audiences. I don't enjoy the overwhelming vapidness that tailgates a culture where every dance move, every note sung is a desperate struggle to maintain relevancy. It disturbs me how readily the public objectifies and sexualizes these idols who, at times, debut as early as the age of 14 or 15. Media outlets prattle the news of a celebrity suicide at a rate too frequent to be comfortable, leaving one to wonder whether or not these gigantic corporations even give two shits about the mental health of their "assets." And the fact that every grisly imperfection is hidden under this bubbly, saccharine, candy-coated exterior makes me nauseous.
All music today lies in the intersection between art and product, but K-pop always seemed to lean closer to the latter, flawless and lifeless. I've never seen this movie, but I think I'll be checking it out. Thank you for this.
I got into kpop in 2013. My first ever group that I got into was BAP, and my ult groups (to this day) are EXO and f(x). You can imagine then, given what all 3 groups went through, that I spent very little time with the rose-tinted view of the industry many new fans bask in. I'd like to thank you for making this video, it's objective look at the issues in the industry without diving into sensationalist rhetoric, like comparing idols to machines (the racism/xenophobia there is so blatant), or doing things like bringing up Jonghyun, Sulli, or Hara as case studies without considering that they are people. I've seen too many thinkpieces that do exactly that, it was nice to see you bring some nuance to the conversation and also be respectful.
I'll definitely have to check this movie out, especially since it features After School and my favourite T-ARA member! I'm also a big Perfect Blue fan (stream Angel of Love) so this sounds right up my alley.
Edit: also kinda unrelated but I just wanted to mention that I miss both the cute and sexy concepts for girl groups (with consent ofc. Stellar released bops but if them being treated better meant I missed out on hearing Vibrato, so be it). Both concepts seemed to have disappeared for a common girl crush concept, or hi-teen kinda vibes if the members are softer looking. Maybe this is just me getting old though, but I'm kinda tired of empowerment at this point (/hj). Just give us some bubblegum pop and some pussy music again, PLEASE.
didn't think i'd see someone else in this comment section who ults exo and f(x), hi ;) what they alone went through always makes me angry and sad and seeing people sensationalize and glorify kpop because they only know the ones that are popular in the west almost makes me envious, like i wish i experienced that obliviousness. and then at the same time people who bring up sulli make me angry because they don't even recognize her as a person or what she went through, and use her as a poster child of "kpop = bad". just ugh. and i miss exo and f(x) so so badly
@@solong_goodnight i love u both and ur words ಥ_ಥ i finally found my circle. i really do miss the f(xo) interactions. glad we have Goodbye Summer to cope up with 🥲
@@solong_goodnight yes, and it particularly makes me frustrated when outsiders to kpop think that the majority of fans support the exploitation of the people we love, when the opposite is true for the majority of fans. Outsiders will share thinkpieces about how terrible the industry is to the idols and then never actually do anything to change things, while kpop fans at least try through government petitions etc. And they will take these idols who left us and paint them as poster children for how toxic the industry is without even considering their individual cases. Sure the industry may have played a part, but mental health support in Korea as a whole is a problem, and yet that is never discussed in the "dark side" videos. Hearing critics who only know about these artists in the context of their suffering and not anything about them as people or creatives, tell fans of the artists that it's their fault, frankly makes me sick.
@@poprocksstrawberrybubblegu9384 I was lucky to have been a fan of both groups in 2013 when the SMTOWN week concerts were happening and they had that set of collaborative concerts. Seeing them interact was always very heartwarming, knowing how close many of the members were with each other even predebut. I was also lucky to have seen f(x) perform live, as brief as it was, as they did a short set for the London Korean Festival in 2015, a couple months before 4 Walls came out. My first video on this channel is actually a (clumsy) fancam of them performing Hot Summer there. I've seen Baekhyun and Kai through a SuperM concert too, but it's my dream to attend an EXO concert someday and get to see them all together.
Ugh I feel this ! I got into it at 2008 listening to shinee then lost my internet for a few years until 2013 where I got into BAP as the first group where I learned every members name ! It does feel weird getting older and all of that.. and ugh I MISS the cute themes so bad I like feeling cute and shiz
it would be great if you made a commentary on the obsessed perfectionist in tv and media, like perfect blue, black swan and whiplash
I used to be obsessed with Black Swan, but I don't feel like I can watch it again since it has so many triggers for me. But a video on this topic would be great.
Thank god this wasn’t just an ‘AsiaPop Bad. Jonghyun dead. Sulli dead. Stupid fangirls, manufactured industry.’ video like most of the ‘dark side of kpop’ videos are
1) I miss Orange Caramel SO MUCH, OMG Banhana and WJSN Chocome are kinda in the right direction but OC is just that special.
2) I didn't know that After School were in a film, and a horror film at that! I'm excited to watch it.
Great video as always ✨💜
i've been into kpop on and off for over 10 years and i've known some of its horror stories for that long. i was there when taeyeon of girls' generation was almost kidnapped on stage (not like, there-there, but in the fandom). and honestly i was never too baffled by horror stories or trainee system because i've know for much longer that that's how entertainment industries all over the world work. they're so incredibly exploitive of young talent that they work to the bone only to discard in less than 10 years, especially if they fail to adapt and grow with their audience. child labor laws do not apply to kids in entertainment, and that's all over the world, it's not just kpop. it's hollywood movies, it's kids' shows, it's the worldwide music industry. they just work slightly differently here in the west -- now, but few decades ago it wasn't all that different than how it works on the east right now. i'm honestly a little scared that with the rise of kpop worldwide, producers in the usa will look back into those models and rework what south korea and japan have already reworked from them to make it even more beneficial to those very few at the top of record labels and other entertainment companies. it's truly the stuff of nightmares.
That video of Taeyeon trying to get yanked off stage will always be creepy to me
@@daphnedaphn3 it is for me, too! especially because she kept trying to perform -- all of them did. the fact that sunny had to be the one to yank her out of that man's grip before security could even get to them infurates me. but then I think of how that man was able to get on stage with them so easily sends chills down my spine.
Reminder than us ballerinas and western labels ALSO have a trainee like system.
"What do you mean she can't perform after breaking her neck?" And just when news about Ruby Rose comes out...
Also, the clip from TLC's Behind the Music where Left Eye explains how you can sell 10 million albums and still be broke should be required viewing for any aspiring musicians.
I've spent a lot of time in Jpop and Johnny's fandom, which has it's own issues that are not dissimilar. Definitely going to check this one out!
Now that old Johnny & his sister dead, I wish we can get a similar critique-fueled movie like Helter Skelter that touches upon those issues in the future
Thank goodness someone pointed out this film. With how many people spread misinformation on kpop acts and such, I’m glad someone has talked about it.
I think what’s even more outrageous is that Eunjung was in a group that wasn’t unpopular, but didn’t hit the same type of success like Pink Dolls until a couple of weeks after this movie came out. And a year later, the group ran into trouble within their group.
I think it shows you how real and fickle the K-Pop industry actually is.
Thank you so much for the recommendation! I love "dark examinations of fame" narratives (Perfect Blue, Helter Skelter, Black Swan), so this is perfect.
I worked at a cafe with a girl who’s family is well involved in the Korean entertainment industry. When I asked her why she gave it up, she told me that the industry was ugly and she didn’t want to be a part of that anymore.
The part you mentioned about fandoms getting more "toxic" the larger they get, or the "toxic" fans getting louder and more numerous the bigger an entertainer is, rather, reminds me of being a taylor swift fan lol. I been a "stan" (ngl i hate that word) since the beginning of her career, and I am simultaneously embarrassed and disgusted by how some of her fans harass her "enemies" and exes, like the whole Jake G and his SISTER??? getting death threats when red (TV) was released last month. The unhinged fans give the rest of us a bad look, and it's truly a shame that stuff like that overshadows an entertainer's talent and artistry so often.
thank god for a nuanced video about a great movie that comes from a place of genuine fascination and somebody who actually likes the music and knows how the industry works. too many times i see creators i've previously enjoyed hop on a bandwagon and use those "dark side of kpop" videos to further their own agenda (they even come off as xenophobic or technoorientalist sometimes which is a whole another discussion to have). not saying videos that like that shouldn't be made but they're 90% coming from an outsider's perspective with zero understanding of the industry and their own biases when constructing the video.
Stellar as a group is a great case study on this issue. Loved those girls and hated what their "team" did to them, they didnt deserve the exploitation they faced and it breaks my heart every time I think of it.
I’m SO GLAD you talked about this movie. I remember watching this when it came out and it is, UGH a stealth masterpiece on kpop especially given what we’ve all come to learn about the kpop industry. Also the song is a BOP! (Not to be that person, but I also did a video on the exploitative nature of the kpop industry specifically in the west. There was a western Kpop idol training company opened in New York around the same time this movie came out and I talked about it)
This movie was so ahead of its time. Eunjung did so well!
It is very important I think to have woman-led narratives in horror that deal with industries that are either staffed by mostly women (as was the case witb CAM from 2018, if I recall correctly, one of my favourite horror films), or, as demonstrated here, where the women are far more likely to be exposed to harm and exploitation than their man counterparts! Thank you for your exploration and illustration of these aspects in the Idol Industry!
I will definitely try to be one of the three to watch this movie as the subject matter has always (morbidly) fascinated me, both in reality (recently with high-profile cases such as Kesha and Britney Spears) and in fiction such as in Perfect Blue... Also everything you've revealed about this film looks extremely well made and intriguing so I am hyped to see if I can well... see it!
yhara always out here keeping our minds fed! can't wait to give this a watch.
Sometimes I see fans praising companies for not being explotative and it confuses me because:
1. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes and we probably never will because of nda's.
2. Are we really setting the bar at "isn't abusive"?
3. The companies themselves don't produce the music, or create the choreo, or record and perform the songs, or tailor outfits, or record music videos, or... you get the point. The real work comes from the creatives who worked on the project. Companies provide the money, yes, but that money comes at the cost of the freedom (social, financial and creative) of their employees.
There's more to it probably but I think you get what I mean. Even if the head of the company is an idol you used to love, assuming they only want what's best for your faves is naive. The goal is money, and those in power will often do whatever it takes to make it.
Those fans are so sick, and their agenda often causes so much distress to idols. Like what they did to sulli, hara, and so many other idols. They see them as objects to push out music, comebacks, and appear docile to them. Esp saesangs who harrass idols. I cant even imagine how these idols continue to push through that stress and appear so happy.
One thing that pisses me off is the fact we have all this knowledge on how unfair the entertainment industry is (both western & Kpop) and everyone disagrees and talks bad about it for a bit then just shrugs their shoulders and goes “welp! That’s show business” ….it’s so sad and unfair I hope changes soon come
My best friend who introduced me to kpop showed me this movie early in my induction to the nonsense and when I say it stuck with me to this day, I was so excited to see you were reviewing this next. We talk about the exploitation of kpop and the toxicity of fandoms and I'm definitely gonna send this to her as a half reminiscence-half cool looks like we're on the same page.
Lastly when it comes to being sexual but not too sexual in kpop I distinctly remember the hate that SISTAR, Miss A and Hyuna got for their more sexual songs and my God while it has gotten better a lot of the hatred for super cute concepts has stayed the same and that's damn disappointing
Edit: Bro if I have to hear OMG BoA's 35!!! one more goddamn time when TVXQ are basically given DILF status (with no kids lol) I'm gonna scream let go of the age thing it doesn't matter
kpop stans really fucking act like idols are on their death bed at 28, i stg. i even see it with some male idols and now all these idols hitting their late 20s/early 30s ALSO think of themselves as old. as if talent has an expiration date
@@solong_goodnight it's frustrating bc while the industry will absolutely put idols into retirement/stop their promotions (especially if they're women) its annoying to see that stans perpetuate that sort of ageist thinking. We as fans should be critiquing this behavior but they're just proving the system right by making such a big deal out of it as if, like you said, their talent will just magically disappear
@@solong_goodnight this is a bit unrelated to kpop. I think this is the reason why Rina Sawayama's career is so impressive to me. She's definitely not as mainstream as Ariana. But it's impressive how she can be that well known considering she's a WOC in her 30s who just releases her debut album in 2020 like- I can't believe I can see asian artist outside of kpop can be that well known :(
Edit: Idk why i put the sad emoji face up there lmao😂
@@meiday154 I was never really invested in kpop fandom but is it really that common when fans leave the fandom because their idols were too old for them? I'm curious.
@@abitsourrrrsorry4885 Definately, i was shocked when someone said they stopped listening to Bts because Jungkook wasn't cute anymore
19:08 I loved Shinji in this movie! The scene where Shinji says "The real Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion were the friends we made along the way" brought me to tears, truly a masterpiece of film alongside "It's Morbin' Time" ( _Morbius_ , 2022) and "It's Gruin' Time" ( _Minions: The Rise of Gru_ , 2022).
bestie what
Thank you for such an insightful and nuanced essay! I always click on anything about kpop with some trepidation bc it’s usually just someone with no interest in the industry or its history regurgitating some “dark side of kpop” article by white writers intent on ignoring that western music industries have many of the same problems. This was a breath of fresh air. And I definitely need to check out that movie.
I really need to watch this movie, just hope I can somehow find a legal stream of it somewhere...
The part where you mentioned about people having a xenophobic view of abuse in the Kpop industry was very on-point. I find this view that both ignores the very real abuse that goes on in our own industry while shaking a finger at the abuse of Kpop idols a is a one-two punch of racism and misogyny. There's this unshakable undercurrent of, "Stop being ungrateful and be glad you're not in one of _those_ countries where they _actually_ hate women."
They wield the idols' stories of physical and sexual abuse to turn around on the artists in the Western world that are experiencing the very same thing, then tell them they're just using it for clout.
Great video as always
god i never get the cute concept hate when it comes to girl groups, ty for touching on it. also this movie is currently on tubi for free!
I remember when this movie was on Netflix forever ago, it had me so shook. some of the scene of the girl singing the high note is burned into my memory
I love that you mentioned the xenophobia involved when people discuss the Kpop industry, as if it's the only industry that exploits people. And I wish I could embed 8:19 - 11:52 in my mind. I've already seen society despise hyper femininity in American media, and the amount of Kpop fans that do this too is crazy.
The movie reminds me so much of perfect blue. A daring and almost brutal critic of the entertainment industry and the damage it can have on the idols/stars.
Okay honestly I'm so glad you called trainees being scooped up as kids and forced to live in dorms and trained in this way grooming bc that's LITERALLY WHAT IT IS, but people do not fucking see it at all. It seems from all the problems kpop has the fact that they literally exploit children never comes up super prominently. I'm sure the fact that a lot of kpop fans themselves are kids adds to it but it's just something that has made me so deeply uncomfortable. I liked kpop since I was a teen and back then it felt so normal somehow but now when I see idols who are younger than me talk about how their last memories of being normal are basically from elementary school it's honestly chilling like I cannot fathom how much that effects you on an emotional level and that's not even getting into how it would impact their development and stuff......
that just hitme when the girls she works with say bully things because she wont sleep with higher ups to give them new studio and furthur fame . wtf it's her body and her right to refuse and why should she sell it for girls that don't even like her and treat her like garbage.
i dont hate cute concepts
im literally a lesbian and i CRAVE cute concepts, AND sexy concepts.
but i absolutely hate when a company gathers a group of young women and has them singing in school uniforms about their first loves, eating lollipops, and skipping around on clouds into their late 30s. its ridiculous.
personally i dont believe people prefer cute concepts over sexy concepts, but its just that these tone deaf agencies think that being cute is all a woman is worth in that blasted industry,. the boy groups get away with the cute concepts because thats not all theyre about. no group that has only one concept survives in the industry.
irene is an example that ill always remember. momoland literally had booty shorts with no safety shorts.
even twice get uncomfy sometimes having dresses that have too much cleavage, or people literally trying to look up their skirts from below the stage and its ridiculous.
im tired of it. all the groups i like with genuine comfort and affinity in their concepts and outfits are incredibly popular and comfortable and those that aren't are probably just not that good idk i dont keep up with all 60 groups that debut every month
Loooved that movie when it came out and that song is so addictive. I used to love K-pop but kind of drifted away as my favourite groups were all pushed farther and farther away from popularity because they were getting older, which happened at the same time as more and more allegations of abuse against idols started surfacing. Now listening to songs I used to love is so bittersweet.
As much as I enjoy kpop music, I have found myself unable to really engage in the fandom side of it due to a discomfort I couldn't quite place. After a fair bit of thought, I think what it comes down to is the difference in the narratives that western and Korean music industries tell. Kpop is surprisingly open about the way in which the ultimate goal is to turn people into idols and idols into objects to be consumed. So the idol's image must be consumer approved in a way that to me looks claustrophobic and impossible to sustain. The flaws of this system thus become something of an open secret or are even a selling point.
Whereas I grew up with the American/western myth of exceptionalism - where so many stories revolve around being "discovered" because their talent shone so bright that they couldn't help but become a star. Look at someone like Susan Boyle or the entire genre of reality TV talent shows (American Idol, The Voice, America's Got Talent, etc). We like "real people" with (socially acceptable) flaws and thus ignore how manufactured and abusive our own music industry is.
And yet even knowing the harm that both industries commit, I still find myself unable to embrace kpop fandom the way that I do western music or even other Korean media. I think discussions like this are a good way to confront what biases cause that feeling for me and many others.
I agree with this. People paint kpop to be this otherworldly stuff of nightmares, when it really is no different to the American media, theyre just more sneaky and conniving about it. kpop wears its dark side like a badge of honor. neither of these things are at all good, we've just gotten used to pretending nothing bad is happening
Another interesting note that I think a lot of people forget, is that KPop is something that the South Korean government has pushed billions of dollars into. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but this very very specific image is something cultivated by the government as a way of obtaining some amount of soft power. SK isn’t a large or particularly powerful country, so they’ve very much tried to gain soft power in technology and their outer images, vs the hard power of the US. It also worked as a way to reform the image of Korea in the eyes of the west, as up until the 90s Korea wasn’t considered a 1st world country. So KPop as this cultivated image is often associated with Korea even if it’s not particularly ‘Korean’ because it’s a partially a tool being used to help maintain a specific image of S.Korea. This mostly just means that western perceptions of KPop and Korea based on this specific cultivated image is different, and that the harshness abound in the industry is encouraged because it helps continue a more positive perception of Korea by way of these almost perfect people.
I would be careful with ‘government pushed kpop’ narrative. It’s extremely exaggerated and often based on easily verifiable falsehoods. Like the idea that it was a scheme to pay off IMF loans when they were already paid off by 2001 when the ‘increased culture spending’ (aka the budget surpassed 1% ) that people point to happened. However, that increased cultural spending went hand in hand with the lifting of previous censorship laws which obviously led to a boom in new creative content. Music is still only 4.5% (and it was basically nothing in the early ‘00s) of the cultural export with video games being over 70%. Politicians take advantage of the image of kpop now but that doesn’t equal a government plot.
@@user-wo6zc2sh8x ur right, but what i think op meant is that SK government is very...docile? passive? unbothered by the image that kpop is portraying of their country. they dont seem too concerned that a load of people globally have inaccurate or preconceived notions about the reality of korea, because if they were, we would hear about a lot more meddling in the affairs of kpop companies by gov restrictions, policies, etc. For better and for worse, kpop is a big economy-booster for SK. as long as it makes money, then theyre not gonna bother w the thousands of damaged individuals that suffer through the industry either
First, I'm very thankful you used this movie to make this video. I really liked the movie when it came out (I'm a huge T-ARA fan) and I thought it spoke about the industry well. Even now years later, sadly yeah it's still as relevant. I feel conflicted as a K-pop fan, especially for how long I've been a fan, but it's best to be critical and want better for these idols.
Two, your video was well spot on. In particular the section where you talked about the cute concept really struck a chord with me as a huge defender for bright concepts.
Thank you for the video. It was really really good. There isn't really good videos trying to critique the industry without making it seem like it's only "over there" like you said.
I'm a used to be 2nd generation fan and wow this early 2010s kpop sounds nostalgic.
I really hope Eun Jung, a former member of t-ara, will have a comeback as an actress
Just a quick education on how kpop in general works:
Most groups only see any payment after 3 or 4 years. This is an industry standard.
So AOA wasn't alone in that. Many groups take years to break even and make profit.
Yes Yes Yes YES! the way I've been obsessed w/this movie (and it's cursed song which is a bop 😆) for years and it seems like I've known no one else whose seen it until now! I was shook the first time seeing it, I couldn't believe it was roasting the Kpop industry right in they face and like you said it's more relevant now than ever
I was so obsessed with this movie in junior high that for my dance class I got 3 other girls to perform the dance with me
this seems to be in the same vein as perfect blue! Will watch it soon thanks for the rec ♥️
I was so happy to see you made a video about this movie! I haven't seen it in years, and this gave me a renewed appreciation of it. What a solid choice.
One of my favorite horror movies of all time since first watching it on one of those obscure streaming sites shortly after its initial release (I think it was something like Tubi, but before streaming was an actual thing people could do easily)!
I hope everyone checks it out; US viewers might need a lot of patience (shipping takes ages!) and a region-free DVD player. It's worth it.
The song itself is catchy and I appreciate you for drawing parallels between the reality of K-Pop and the film. There's a lot I don't know about the biz...
i remember finding this movie in middle school, scared me half to death at that age. when i rewatched it years later i was shocked by how plain the message was
My thing with overly girly/cute concepts is that you can feel the artists are just forcing it or just trying to go through it as part of "changing concepts". They would even make fun of themselves for doing stuff like it eventually. I mean, why would I want something like that for them? It's sad that these celebrities who are just as every bit human as us can't afford to have that kind of intellectual or artistic freedom.
This channel is the gift that keeps on giving 👏🏽👏🏽
this came up in my recommended again after i'd been thinking of looking it up and i found my comment. i've since watched the movie and loved it, and it gives me a whole new appreciation of the video now (which was already a favorite of mine). love your work, i hope you're well.
Thank you for this! This flew completely under my radar; I'm gonna watch this ASAP!
I love your editing, your videos always have such insight and nuance, I so appreciate getting the chance to hear your perspectives
i can always count on yhara for the best horror recs
I'm so glad you're covering this!! I watched this movie years ago and the trampling scene has always stuck with me.
You got me so interested in this movie and I can't find it streaming anywhere! Great video, as always!!
I have heard about this horror film a very long time ago but was too chicken to watch it. Knowing what it's about now, I will definitely give it a try. I had a friend whose situation is always unhealthy in her house and suffers from mental health conditions and is a multistan. She's doing better now but seeing her made me realise why the kpop industry thrives, and even more so than ever before.
It's not just music and how pretty/good looking the idols are, it's that false intimacy they provide through lives and content the company churns out that allows the fans to 'know' them better. It literally births those ones delusional enough to think they can marry their faves. I'm no psychology major, but these industries know their audience and how to market their "products" (your favourite idols) to make them extremely appealing. This applies to kdramas as well.
I'm not the one saying they're products, but it's clear that's their purpose as an idol. It's all business and money making, but it's done in a way that makes people consume it willingly, even knowing how unhealthy the industry can be/how the idols are treated. It's almost like a drug. But I have to emphasize that I can't hate the idols because I do care about them and even the ones I don't know, because in the end they're just human beings with great dreams, it's the system that's toxic.
So after watching your video I searched high and low for a legal way to watch this and found nothing and that makes me sad because i wanted to support this film if I could. I found a place to watch it and this highlights a lot of reasons why ive distanced myself from kpop. The entertainment industry as a whole is disgusting and i spent so many years being defensive and standoffish with people (especially other women) who insulted girl groups. Im an actress and artist and i love the idea of supporting my fellow female artists whether theyre trans or *cis or whatever race or sexuality they deserve support. And I know things are changing in the entertainment industry but its too slow and took way too long.
Where did you find to watch it? I'm searching too
This has been one of my favourite movies for years and years, and the song gets stuck in my head so bad. I also have a weird thing about mirrors, so the mirror scene always does me in! This was an incredibly insightful video, thank you!
Love that you made a video on this one! I watched it back in the day on Netflix and was so intrigued by the ghost story but also the social commentary. It’s a good movie.
I remember watching this movie when it was released but I feel like I was too young to understand the deeper meaning, now I find it sad most of the problems depicted are still a thing 10 years later.
The song's still great
i watched this movie on netflix with a friend who was into kpop before i even knew it was a thing (and certainly before it was as mainstream as it is now). i remember the song, and how chilling and sad the stories of the girls made me feel, but that was also before i knew anything of the industry. i barely touched the industry on my own (got really into f(x) in 2019 before realizing they were disbanded and people were wondering when their return might come, and then a few months later, one of the former members ended up taking her own life. it was at this point i truly discovered how dark the idol industry could be (i had a vague knowledge of the western side at least, from various artists including taylor swift with everything going on with her song ownership). seeing this video and not only being reminded of this movie but seeing how it really touches on so many issues in the industry including that the other girls teamed up against the other, etc, knowing what i know about the industry... it makes me wish that we lived in a world where this was just a horror movie. not something that touches on so many real world issues
Aaaaaa thank you so much for reminding me of this movie! I’ll have to rewatch it since I haven’t seen it since middle school.
as always, this is extraordinarily well-articulated. thank you so much for your content, your hard work, your incredible research (and brain), and the 7th sense