Neil Peart never said he was a pro. I dont care if they call themselves a smo. Stop complaining about others trying to make youself look high and mighty. You will never ever be on the same level of Neil or Chad Smith.. Are you a good drummer, yes. Are you better than me, yes. Are you making money from youtube, yes.. So your a Pro. RELAX
@@LaVerdad65 Thanks for the Great Laugh today!! 😅🤣😂🤣😅 A great Laugh,is Very Great for one's Mind and Soul!!! Rest-In-Peace The Professor 🙏🙏🙏🙏 You Are Loved and Very Very Missed!!!
Ehhh...... I'm half with you and half iffy. I get where you're coming from; you're essentially saying something along the lines of "Stop complaining about this type of deal, because you're the man! You've _already_ made it as a pro. You just ain't realize it!" It's like a critique that says, "You're awesome, so you're better than this." But it don't really look like he's complaining and trying to make himself high and mighty, but moreso delving into the layers that many people don't typically think about when considering "Pro" status as the goal. The supporting data is sound imo. The conclusion/main idea doe..........ehhhhh, it's got some room for refinement.
When Bernard Purdie one of the world's most recorded drummers in history has to resort to crowd funding to publish his autobiography there isn't much hope for the rest of us
@@s3fruit969 Sorry but I spent too much time reading about how much session players were getting paid in the 60s and 70s the halcyon years of recording. When you consider that Hal Blaine owned a Rolls Royce and Tommy Tedesco lived in an 11 room house - I think Bernard who is definitely in that league should have been able to afford several thousand dollars to print copies. Paper is not that expensive
Villaboy as someone who knows bernard personally I can tell you that he got screwed out of a lot of shit he was entitled to, he is not as wealthy as some may think, and yes, he did certainly need to crowdfund his book and that’s all I’m gonna say about that
@Villaboy Most of my favorite artists will tell you that music doesn’t make much money until you’re a popstar. They get most of their money from outside business ventures.
@@8020drummer It's from the heart. 🙂 Seriously, I'm really appreciating your perspective and presentation, it's inspiring without being too serious. The clips in this one were especially on point.
Sooooo this is obviously partly comedy/hyperbole. The definition of "pro" I like, and the one I ascribe to myself (or aspire to) is Stephen Pressfield's - somebody who ships his/her own work on schedule, without waiting for a "whim". If it's this definition, I fully support being a "pro".
I started touring with small indie band and was lucky enough to make barely enough to pay MOST of my bills from that touring income. When I was younger I would dream about being a 'pro' and what that would look like and I dedicated myself to that pursuit. The reality sure was different than the expectation, but I wouldn't trade all those floors slept on, endless miles in a van, or strange small town experiences for anything. I also feel lucky to have done that without ever having played a cover or any music that I didn't write. I'm not as good as I thought I would be when I finally made a career out of the drums, but I'm doing it. Now in 2020 covid has ended that touring career, and I have resorted to the internet. Lol, moral of the story? .... I don't know, maybe it's to just play the drums no matter what, if that's what you love, and never take your foot off the gas. Great video btw Nate, thanks for all your insight 🙏
Love that you included the bit about not constantly saying “I’m a pro.” Living in Nashville, there is definitely a lot of pressure to be “full time.” Theres an unspoken stigma associated with not having enough work to carry yourself with music alone...the judgement doesn’t happen in every circle but it definitely comes up more than it should. For that reason I feel this pressure to be like “I do this for a living...I swear...” It’s lame and as I get older I am trusting myself and worrying about the self validation less
I have an acquaintance down in Nashville. A dude who has recorded and toured extensively, and literally has Gold records. But when he moved down to Nashville, he, like many others, found it tough to crack that insular nut. He said the running gag there (regarding the standard 10:00/2:00/6:00 session schedule they have run there for years) when someone asks “Are you working?” goes like this: “I have a 10, a 2, and a 6 booked. The 10 is in March, the 2 is in August, and the 6 is next year.”
Hey Nate Love your analysis. I’ve been in Nola for a while, but grew up in New York. Thanks for helping me keep up to speed with the NY scene. Well played!
I'm Dutch and extremely humble and know all about humility.. I always try to learn from any player who is better than me. That's how you grow and take yourself to the next level. It's all about your passion. If it makes you happy then that's all that matters.
I was a 'pro' for 10 years, many bands (3-5 at a time) a few 'big' names in the punk scene and grinding tour schedules throughout. Still had to have a job at home base. I don't regret a minute of it, even the crap, but I'm glad to be out of it and just playing for enjoyment. Musicians, learn a trade! When you've had enough of the parasites it's good to know how to use your talented hands for other things.
First off, I think your content is great. You raise really interesting points that I think apply not only to drumming but other areas I have studied (computer programming comes to mind, so many parallels). I really like the song starting at 6:03, what is that piece? If anyone could tell my I would greatly appreciate it.
I prefer to call myself a 'working musician'. You're right that there is some weird cache` with being able to call oneself a 'pro', and many 'pros' are (in my opinion) unworthy of that label as they fail to conduct themselves in a manner that I would call 'professional'. I'm with you...you should spend your time trying to be the best musician possible, and you might be one of the fortunate few that get to make their living my playing and teaching music.
Nate is a gr8 pro student of the craft...going where most of us drummers don’t want to go... because it’s Truelly difficult..he’s on the edge ...bravo to u my friend
Toured professionally for a year and a half and it answered a LOT of questions that I had my whole life. In short, touring has plenty of downsides that few people talk about.
I feel like modern music culture commandeered the word Pro from sports culture. It leaves an odd taste when someone says they are a pro-drum/sax/accordion/etc player. Feels like competitive or hierarchical framework, which carries a whole mess of connotations and stigma that can be counter-productive to the art, expression and creativity music is supposed to convey.... Any thoughts here? Playing drums ain't exactly a sport - unless you're in Whiplash...
This is true. I hate when I see great drummers show/post how they can play piano, bass, or program but don't realize we have tuned into them for years because they are phenomenal drummers. They seem to post more to show off their diversity to ladder up on the next musician to get more subs for money.For example, I love that Sput-Snarky Puppy(Ghost Note) can produce, write, and play keys but I am a fan of his musical drumming ability. I understand he switched it up to add value and opportunities for himself and others but his ofc the charts drumming pved the way. In that sense.. The market has been competitive driven.
bob hope hmmmmmm. Not sure I follow. Might agree depending on how you mean it. I do think the internet made accepting the matrix optional. Like I’m getting paid and I don’t answer to Anybody (not that I’m flexing - I only happened on this living because traditional gatekeepers rejected me).
@bob hope it isn't, and the alignment of that terminology between sports and music is way more rooted in the inherently exploitative nature of capitalism than any analogue between being a musician - let alone any type of artist - and an athlete, but nobody wants to have that conversation ;P is there a comparison to be drawn between athleticism and musicianship? of course, especially given the holistic nature of kit drumming. to imply that a structure of categorization and ranking of skill is inherent to either hitting a drum with a stick or running fast is as absurd as implying that all human interactions boil down to an exchange in a market. There is this enormous societal pressure, especially on young people, that anything they like or are good at should be seized upon to become THE CAREER, right? you like music, well you better be sure because you have to be A PRO. you like to run or throw a ball, well obviously you're going out for the team right? whatever you're good at there's always someone there to tell you "hey you should do that for money", especially if you're young or just out of work. because we have this pervasive conditioning that everything we do we MUST have some plan to try and monetize and make a living at - for it to become a profession, a career. especially these days, with online culture and extreme wealth inequality rampant around the world, the golden ticket in any world is now becoming insta or tiktok famous and trying to leverage that into a sustainable profession. even things like "having a cat" or "playing a video game" or "talking about stuff with your friends for an hour or two" have this alluring narrative of monetization and leveraging into a profession. why just talk when you could make a podcast and maybe make a million dollars maybe??? you'd be a fool, surely. dramatic eye roll goes here. the astute reader might be drawing connections between what i'm saying and some things Nate said in the video. you need that clout on insta to get the leverage to negotiate right? and "where did this obsession with being a PRO come from?" well, here. it was born of the inherent way that capitalism perverts things by insisting that everything is part of this inherent economy and market that is just inescapable. so basically who gives a shit? forget the idea of being a "PRO" by any terms if that's not what you want. if you can get gigs and make money and pay your bills by way of drums and you still don't think you're a "professional" then you aren't, and if you do then you are, because it's all a bunch of posturing "societal status" crap anyway. play music and get better because it's fun and you like doing it and it feels good before anything else, and if you can't do that, then why are you even playing music?
I’d love to be able to have drumming as my job or even part time but I never like to guarantee anything or else it’s most likely you’re going to end up disappointed. I enjoy what I do, it gets me out the house, gets me to meet new people and whenever happens after happens.
You're hitting a bunch of things I've learned, I have created three bands at various points in my musical career-upside the amount of creative control-downside, if you don't do it-it doesn't get done also being the leader of a band your chops may suffer because your concentrating on the sound of the band. The learning curve was steep but it actually made me a better fit in other bands because I knew what the MD needed. Tour...I did this in college...that was enough for me. Thanks again...And the only thing pro about me is my attitude towards the craft.
Here's a dumb question: Would you ever consider trading lessons with another teacher for the sake of knowledge? Would love to pick your brain, but, things being as they are, and all... Have been giving someone beginner drum lessons for origami lessons lately and it's been kind of fun!
amazing point, I also have traded lessons in the past for other teachings, and quite soon im about to exchange percussion lessons for harmony lessons.. also Coltrane used to trade lessons with another sax player too! I think the guy from Sun RA
Yo Nate, I'm actually a bass/guitar guy who watches your channel because I like the narrative of your vids. Great take. I've recognized this struggle around the idea of being "pro" for a while to the point where it's almost been a detriment lol. It's a hard line to walk though because as humble and focused on the merit of our skill we want to stay, the squeakiest wheel often gets the grease and that loudmouth player who keeps telling everyone how great and professional they are often gets the gig even if they aren't as good based of how confident they come off. It's really a balance. I learned many years ago that how much money you make doesn't necessarily equate to how good you are and often it's rather who you know and whether or not your a chill person to be around and work with. Keep it up man, love your vids even though I'm not a jazz drummer and I'm never going to buy your courses lmaoooo
I'm not even a drummer, but I honestly think your videos can apply to any musician. Even the drummer specific stuff is interesting, and it's a great insight into ways of thinking about music I don't necessarily do with a background in guitar and bass
Good stuff!. I've been playing for over 50 years. I put myself through Berklee tending bar. Rarely worked regular jobs. I had a moderately successful career. A couple tours through Europe Norway to Greece playing Jump Blues, (which I love) I played in a jazz trio for a year in Beijing of all places! Went to Australia a couple times. I played with a Grammy winner and a couple DownBeat Poll Winners. I never made a lot of money and many times I made no money. If it wasn't for girlfriends and a lovely wife I would have been homeless a few times. I have no regrets. BUT! I never once encouraged ANY of my students to major in music in college and never encouraged anybody to "Go Pro." Making music is the most competitive job in the world. It's hard.
I just noticed something about my perception of the word "pro". I'm German, so when actually thinking about professionalism, I think in German. On the other hand, "pro" is a word, I only come across on the internet. So after noticing that, I figured out, how I perceive those two words differently: A "pro" for me is someone, who mastered his craft, while... a "Profi" (German equivalent of a pro) is someone, who behaves very professional in a real work relationship with me.
Have you ever driven down the street and seen an edifice called a "professional building"? Usually, such places house medical offices. At one time, "professional" was term for any field that required a prescribed amount of education to be certified: law, education, medicine, and engineering. Over time, it has devolved from that to "anyone who gets paid" to do a task to "anyone who is very good at something." Now get off my rhetorical lawn.
Great video nate. How have making these videos changed you do you think. You seem really comfortable in front of the camera compared to older videos. Has this crossed over to your real life? Keep it up.
This video nails it. Ethymology says, a Pro is short for professional. Get paid for doing one thing and make a living out of it that was my goal growing up, and probably everyone else's. That's far from proficient, effective and fluent skill people usually refer as such. 20 years later, I dare to say i was stubborn enough to keep going and diligent. I dropped out my career to be who i wanted to be. Wouldn't recommend that and i found myself being happier, but also having difficulties no school ever prepare you to face. There's no pride or reasons to back up any arrogance on being a full time musician. It humbles you. Puts you in a endless risk. All the pros I meet are ronin warriors devoted to their craft. Very few get lucky to be owners of their own project, become a household name, and the glitter of fancy things that are superficial and pointless... It's being and independent contractor of entertainment, but hopefully try to not to be a "one trick pony" and just do that only. Specially on this times where next performance is so far it is not promising. Patience, patience, patience... Do you like dealing with divas?(as in, cocky guitarrists, singers and centerpieces?), Do you realize you barely will be yhe guy in the center, in the promo photo or credits? Do you like waiting for payments?(and the possibilites of never happening ones?), Learning material you don't like, being told ALL THE TIME what to do and dissmis your musical criteria and serve the material as they told you? Read music? Or invest time and money on learning how to, just to have all the material served in spoticrap/youtube playlist of 30 songs to learn for tomorrow, so probably 20 will do, and 10 will be request or last minute set list changes? It doesn't pay a lot. Nowhere. Enough in some places, but declining aince hobbyist take over and charge whatever just to impress their friends and grab some beers, create a bad rep and make bar owners believe musicians aren't serious about their craft, or even worst, dealing with pros with sickening attitudes that burry the good impression others try to make. There are safer, better, less stressful and depressing ways to pay rent and go thru life. If you don't love music more than anything and NOTHING tops performing your soul out every time you can, find something else and play on weekends with friends. Get a partner and marry. Hang out with your parents and family, be able to have a normal life with music in it. Being pro isn't hell. Being pro is commitment to music, your craft and risk everything, everyday. Chances are things can go better if you play your cards right. But the worst case scenario can be a nightmare nobody would subscribe to, if music is not the main thing for you.
Man, you tell the truth and make me laugh everytime! Thank you! Uhhh... maybe pro comedian?! ( I once paid my bills playing drums, but I never uttered the word pro, never thought about it actually. Neither did my bandmates, we just went home to bed after the gig. Hmmm...)
I posted most of what you just said on Quincy Davis's site. Got an answer yesterday. He was pissed at me for telling the truth about this very subject. He said I was taking away the joy from the young guys. I was just being honest. I was out there and did all the travel and gig stuff. Not what I thought it would be. Never did it for the money. I guess the part he did not like most was about the Bar gigs. $35.00.00 a hot dog and a cheap beer from the tap if you're lucky. Yes, I was negative. Get a degree and teach at a nice high school. 80/20 keep up the good work. Someone had to say it.
I’m not a drummer and never will be but I watch all these vids because a) they are funny as hell and b) I like to understand what makes a good musician, and they help me listen to drummers and see what makes them good.
Number 1- Eating. Number 2- Reliable shelter. Number 3- Reliable transportation. Number 4- Gigs that you enjoy playing. Number 5- A new change of clothes every 10-15 years. I didn’t even need to watch the video.
Your wedding bands comment reminds me of how many lounge players I've seen over the years who look like they simply wanted to die. Regular gigs, decent money, playing The Girl From Ipanema and that ONE OVERPLAYED Kenny G tune.
I have a thought for you to consider. Play for Abraham Laboriel Sr. or Anthony Jackson and you will quickly find out what your level of musicianship is. No amount of talking is going to camouflage weak timing or inexperienced musical choices in the here and now.
I posted most of what you just said to A Quincy Davis's site. Got an answer yesterday. He was pissed at me for telling the truth about this very subject. He said I was taking away the joy from the young guys. I was just being honest. I was out there and did all the travel and gig stuff. Not what I thought it would be. Never did it for the money. I guess the part he did not like most was about the Bar gigs. $35.00.00 a hot dog and a cheap beer from the tap if you're lucky. Yes, I was negative. Get a degree and teach at a nice h
Hi Nate! I’m an audio engineer who’s a huge fan of your content. I noticed your intro sound quality could use a boost and I’d love to schedule a brief zoom consultation to discuss options! No charge, I'm just a fan interested in seeing you create the highest quality content for myself and others
@@8020drummer Gulfstream actually made it pretty easy in naming the series I, II, III, IV, V, and now VI. Your example however, made your humor work even better so don't let any airplane nitpickers give you guff on this point as it would only show they lack a sense of humor. 🤣
Neal Schier I’m actually not that into PJs anyway. Before covid I preferred widebodies. I used my credit card points to fly in business class for like $45 to Japan. Poor man’s PJ. Hope those days return 🤣
@@8020drummer When I got checked out on the 747 the grey-beard Captain that did the final checkout, said: I only want to be on an aircraft that I can easily walk under. That means the walk-around (pre-flight check) is easier and that the passengers will be happier because the business class section will be roomy. Boy did he ever know so many other important things in life and he remains one of the favorite guys I ever flew with. Wonder if there is a corlation to drumming gigs? Is there an equivalent grey-beard wisdom from those of who you have been working at the musical coal face for years? Sure the great advice borne of your experience that you have passed along in these great video lessons, but are there some that are the equivalent of "always travel on a plane big enough that you can walk under it?" Maybe only do gigs if the set up allows enough room for you to have, if needed, your full kit AND to be comfortable behind the it. This means not being pushed so far the the side or back of the stage risers that you think you are certain to lose a cymbal, a floor tom, or even the high hat at some point during the set. Or that you are pushed so far to the back that you might tumble off the back. Perhaps an idea for a VERY tongue in cheek episode on being the most comfortable one can be at any gig--including the wedding gigs 😂🤣😂
Neil Peart never said he was a pro. I dont care if they call themselves a smo. Stop complaining about others trying to make youself look high and mighty. You will never ever be on the same level of Neil or Chad Smith.. Are you a good drummer, yes. Are you better than me, yes. Are you making money from youtube, yes.. So your a Pro. RELAX
Torpedomtb Man, talk about missing the entire point of this video..
Hey I'm not a "pro" but one day through work I will be better than them. Even though I may be 80 when I do
Im better than both Neil and Chad. Neil Peart is BY FAR the most OVERRATED drummer of all time
@@LaVerdad65 Thanks for the Great Laugh today!! 😅🤣😂🤣😅 A great Laugh,is Very Great for one's Mind and Soul!!! Rest-In-Peace The Professor 🙏🙏🙏🙏 You Are Loved and Very Very Missed!!!
Ehhh...... I'm half with you and half iffy. I get where you're coming from; you're essentially saying something along the lines of "Stop complaining about this type of deal, because you're the man! You've _already_ made it as a pro. You just ain't realize it!" It's like a critique that says, "You're awesome, so you're better than this."
But it don't really look like he's complaining and trying to make himself high and mighty, but moreso delving into the layers that many people don't typically think about when considering "Pro" status as the goal.
The supporting data is sound imo. The conclusion/main idea doe..........ehhhhh, it's got some room for refinement.
When Bernard Purdie one of the world's most recorded drummers in history has to resort to crowd funding to publish his autobiography there isn't much hope for the rest of us
The secret is that there’s nothing wrong with crowd funding
@@s3fruit969 Sorry but I spent too much time reading about how much session players were getting paid in the 60s and 70s the halcyon years of recording. When you consider that Hal Blaine owned a Rolls Royce and Tommy Tedesco lived in an 11 room house - I think Bernard who is definitely in that league should have been able to afford several thousand dollars to print copies. Paper is not that expensive
Villaboy as someone who knows bernard personally I can tell you that he got screwed out of a lot of shit he was entitled to, he is not as wealthy as some may think, and yes, he did certainly need to crowdfund his book and that’s all I’m gonna say about that
@Villaboy Most of my favorite artists will tell you that music doesn’t make much money until you’re a popstar. They get most of their money from outside business ventures.
Villaboy Blaine and Tedesco are White dudes. Purdie is not. Makes all the difference in the world, especially in that industry, in that era.
Playing the drums just makes me happy. Amateur or professional,who cares.
This comment should have much more likes.
Target, meet audience.
Gonna write this on my practice room bro. Legitt
"I paid PROs on fiver to break into my house". Lmao!
Down to earth real talk and humor, backed by a sick groove. Dude, love it. Your videos lately have been getting better and better.
Aaaaaw you flatter me. Much appreciated 🙏
@@8020drummer It's from the heart. 🙂 Seriously, I'm really appreciating your perspective and presentation, it's inspiring without being too serious. The clips in this one were especially on point.
Sooooo this is obviously partly comedy/hyperbole. The definition of "pro" I like, and the one I ascribe to myself (or aspire to) is Stephen Pressfield's - somebody who ships his/her own work on schedule, without waiting for a "whim". If it's this definition, I fully support being a "pro".
I like your John French reference @ 3:04. One of the greatest drummers alive who didn't make a red cent. Gotcha.
I started touring with small indie band and was lucky enough to make barely enough to pay MOST of my bills from that touring income. When I was younger I would dream about being a 'pro' and what that would look like and I dedicated myself to that pursuit. The reality sure was different than the expectation, but I wouldn't trade all those floors slept on, endless miles in a van, or strange small town experiences for anything. I also feel lucky to have done that without ever having played a cover or any music that I didn't write. I'm not as good as I thought I would be when I finally made a career out of the drums, but I'm doing it. Now in 2020 covid has ended that touring career, and I have resorted to the internet. Lol, moral of the story? .... I don't know, maybe it's to just play the drums no matter what, if that's what you love, and never take your foot off the gas. Great video btw Nate, thanks for all your insight 🙏
"play the drums no matter what, if that's what you love, and never take your foot off the gas" well said 👊
@@TheStudioDrummer thanks bro 👊
Love that you included the bit about not constantly saying “I’m a pro.” Living in Nashville, there is definitely a lot of pressure to be “full time.” Theres an unspoken stigma associated with not having enough work to carry yourself with music alone...the judgement doesn’t happen in every circle but it definitely comes up more than it should. For that reason I feel this pressure to be like “I do this for a living...I swear...” It’s lame and as I get older I am trusting myself and worrying about the self validation less
I have an acquaintance down in Nashville. A dude who has recorded and toured extensively, and literally has Gold records. But when he moved down to Nashville, he, like many others, found it tough to crack that insular nut. He said the running gag there (regarding the standard 10:00/2:00/6:00 session schedule they have run there for years) when someone asks “Are you working?” goes like this: “I have a 10, a 2, and a 6 booked. The 10 is in March, the 2 is in August, and the 6 is next year.”
Hey Nate
Love your analysis. I’ve been in Nola for a while, but grew up in New York. Thanks for helping me keep up to speed with the NY scene. Well played!
"5 Reasons Not to Become a PRO Drummer"
*PRO* Verified ✔️
I've played in wedding bands. It does depend on the wedding band. The one with the spandex and wigs and make up was definitely the most interesting!
I'm Dutch and extremely humble and know all about humility.. I always try to learn from any player who is better than me. That's how you grow and take yourself to the next level. It's all about your passion. If it makes you happy then that's all that matters.
Ahhh poor Max, as the dutch say "Tall trees catch a lot of wind"
I was a 'pro' for 10 years, many bands (3-5 at a time) a few 'big' names in the punk scene and grinding tour schedules throughout. Still had to have a job at home base. I don't regret a minute of it, even the crap, but I'm glad to be out of it and just playing for enjoyment. Musicians, learn a trade! When you've had enough of the parasites it's good to know how to use your talented hands for other things.
First off, I think your content is great. You raise really interesting points that I think apply not only to drumming but other areas I have studied (computer programming comes to mind, so many parallels). I really like the song starting at 6:03, what is that piece? If anyone could tell my I would greatly appreciate it.
That's some really good points. Great content as always!
This was both truthful and very funny. Thoroughly Enjoyable.
I prefer to call myself a 'working musician'. You're right that there is some weird cache` with being able to call oneself a 'pro', and many 'pros' are (in my opinion) unworthy of that label as they fail to conduct themselves in a manner that I would call 'professional'. I'm with you...you should spend your time trying to be the best musician possible, and you might be one of the fortunate few that get to make their living my playing and teaching music.
Nate is a gr8 pro student of the craft...going where most of us drummers don’t want to go... because it’s Truelly difficult..he’s on the edge ...bravo to u my friend
Toured professionally for a year and a half and it answered a LOT of questions that I had my whole life. In short, touring has plenty of downsides that few people talk about.
I feel like modern music culture commandeered the word Pro from sports culture. It leaves an odd taste when someone says they are a pro-drum/sax/accordion/etc player. Feels like competitive or hierarchical framework, which carries a whole mess of connotations and stigma that can be counter-productive to the art, expression and creativity music is supposed to convey.... Any thoughts here?
Playing drums ain't exactly a sport - unless you're in Whiplash...
yes
This is true. I hate when I see great drummers show/post how they can play piano, bass, or program but don't realize we have tuned into them for years because they are phenomenal drummers. They seem to post more to show off their diversity to ladder up on the next musician to get more subs for money.For example, I love that Sput-Snarky Puppy(Ghost Note) can produce, write, and play keys but I am a fan of his musical drumming ability. I understand he switched it up to add value and opportunities for himself and others but his ofc the charts drumming pved the way. In that sense.. The market has been competitive driven.
bob hope hmmmmmm. Not sure I follow. Might agree depending on how you mean it. I do think the internet made accepting the matrix optional. Like I’m getting paid and I don’t answer to Anybody (not that I’m flexing - I only happened on this living because traditional gatekeepers rejected me).
@bob hope it isn't, and the alignment of that terminology between sports and music is way more rooted in the inherently exploitative nature of capitalism than any analogue between being a musician - let alone any type of artist - and an athlete, but nobody wants to have that conversation ;P
is there a comparison to be drawn between athleticism and musicianship? of course, especially given the holistic nature of kit drumming. to imply that a structure of categorization and ranking of skill is inherent to either hitting a drum with a stick or running fast is as absurd as implying that all human interactions boil down to an exchange in a market.
There is this enormous societal pressure, especially on young people, that anything they like or are good at should be seized upon to become THE CAREER, right? you like music, well you better be sure because you have to be A PRO. you like to run or throw a ball, well obviously you're going out for the team right? whatever you're good at there's always someone there to tell you "hey you should do that for money", especially if you're young or just out of work. because we have this pervasive conditioning that everything we do we MUST have some plan to try and monetize and make a living at - for it to become a profession, a career.
especially these days, with online culture and extreme wealth inequality rampant around the world, the golden ticket in any world is now becoming insta or tiktok famous and trying to leverage that into a sustainable profession. even things like "having a cat" or "playing a video game" or "talking about stuff with your friends for an hour or two" have this alluring narrative of monetization and leveraging into a profession. why just talk when you could make a podcast and maybe make a million dollars maybe??? you'd be a fool, surely. dramatic eye roll goes here.
the astute reader might be drawing connections between what i'm saying and some things Nate said in the video. you need that clout on insta to get the leverage to negotiate right? and "where did this obsession with being a PRO come from?" well, here. it was born of the inherent way that capitalism perverts things by insisting that everything is part of this inherent economy and market that is just inescapable. so basically who gives a shit? forget the idea of being a "PRO" by any terms if that's not what you want. if you can get gigs and make money and pay your bills by way of drums and you still don't think you're a "professional" then you aren't, and if you do then you are, because it's all a bunch of posturing "societal status" crap anyway.
play music and get better because it's fun and you like doing it and it feels good before anything else, and if you can't do that, then why are you even playing music?
Solid contents, as usual! Loads of food for thought, to me not only about music but about how to approach life in general.
He said pro so many times in the beginning of the video that the word started to lose its meaning 😂😂
pro pro pro pro pro
Which is the point
"....and that's how you get the gig. "
Nice reference lol
Why is rational funk ending AGAIN
@@8020drummer nooooooo!😱
I’d love to be able to have drumming as my job or even part time but I never like to guarantee anything or else it’s most likely you’re going to end up disappointed. I enjoy what I do, it gets me out the house, gets me to meet new people and whenever happens after happens.
Holy shit didnt expect to see you here
huge galaxy brain i hope you’re happy about that haha I play drums in a band IRL
@@ottz2506 never knew that
I subbed to you years ago but havent watched your videos in a long while
Good to see youre still alive 👍
huge galaxy brain well you can say that my opinions have certainly grown and moved a bit haha
Seeing Max and Lewis in a drumming video is a clashing of my hobbies I didn't think would happen today
Hey Nate! Random question. Would you ever wanna go on drumeo at some point?
😳😳😅😉
I’m going to take that as maybe lmao?!
You're hitting a bunch of things I've learned, I have created three bands at various points in my musical career-upside the amount of creative control-downside, if you don't do it-it doesn't get done also being the leader of a band your chops may suffer because your concentrating on the sound of the band. The learning curve was steep but it actually made me a better fit in other bands because I knew what the MD needed. Tour...I did this in college...that was enough for me. Thanks again...And the only thing pro about me is my attitude towards the craft.
Fun video with lots O truth. Thanks for the heads up on Siberiano!
Nate, you’re a hilarious space cadet. Thank you for your unflinching humility.
Here's a dumb question:
Would you ever consider trading lessons with another teacher for the sake of knowledge?
Would love to pick your brain, but, things being as they are, and all...
Have been giving someone beginner drum lessons for origami lessons lately and it's been kind of fun!
amazing point, I also have traded lessons in the past for other teachings, and quite soon im about to exchange percussion lessons for harmony lessons..
also Coltrane used to trade lessons with another sax player too! I think the guy from Sun RA
Another great video mate 😉
Thanks bro!
Yo Nate, I'm actually a bass/guitar guy who watches your channel because I like the narrative of your vids. Great take. I've recognized this struggle around the idea of being "pro" for a while to the point where it's almost been a detriment lol. It's a hard line to walk though because as humble and focused on the merit of our skill we want to stay, the squeakiest wheel often gets the grease and that loudmouth player who keeps telling everyone how great and professional they are often gets the gig even if they aren't as good based of how confident they come off. It's really a balance.
I learned many years ago that how much money you make doesn't necessarily equate to how good you are and often it's rather who you know and whether or not your a chill person to be around and work with. Keep it up man, love your vids even though I'm not a jazz drummer and I'm never going to buy your courses lmaoooo
Love all the f1 you're sneaking in.
I love these videos, the content, humour and delivery couldn't be any better :)
Thanks, bub! Always level-headed and thought-provoking. 🍺🍺🍺🔥🔥🔥💨💨💨🤘🤘🤘🙏🙏🙏
this "corner office test" is quite an interesting take. where was the origin of this ?
I feel the PRO status is
"the getting out of a shit job-repeating life Card"
for many aspiring people, not just drummers.
(Same goes for UA-cam).
1:39 - HAHAHAHAHA ... your vids are awesome ... GREAT writing / editing
I'm not even a drummer, but I honestly think your videos can apply to any musician. Even the drummer specific stuff is interesting, and it's a great insight into ways of thinking about music I don't necessarily do with a background in guitar and bass
That is the type of pro I strive towards becoming. You respect people and you respect the craft. And of course you strive to be the best you can be.
Lighting looks good in this!
What's the beef/love with Fond du Lac?
Most guys who call themselves pros live primarily off their wive’s income.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Best comment ever on UA-cam!!!
keep it up nate, these vids are getting more and more entertaining
“It’s really Miles”, five hours later I’m still 😂🤣🤪
Your vids seem better as of late 🤭. Love em dude
I literally fell over laughing at the "if Berklee hadn't been so generous with scholarships" line. You'd kill in Branson
Good stuff!. I've been playing for over 50 years. I put myself through Berklee tending bar. Rarely worked regular jobs. I had a moderately successful career. A couple tours through Europe Norway to Greece playing Jump Blues, (which I love) I played in a jazz trio for a year in Beijing of all places! Went to Australia a couple times. I played with a Grammy winner and a couple DownBeat Poll Winners. I never made a lot of money and many times I made no money. If it wasn't for girlfriends and a lovely wife I would have been homeless a few times. I have no regrets. BUT! I never once encouraged ANY of my students to major in music in college and never encouraged anybody to "Go Pro." Making music is the most competitive job in the world. It's hard.
Well said
The Redd Foxx door slam made me spit water out my nose.
I just noticed something about my perception of the word "pro". I'm German, so when actually thinking about professionalism, I think in German. On the other hand, "pro" is a word, I only come across on the internet. So after noticing that, I figured out, how I perceive those two words differently:
A "pro" for me is someone, who mastered his craft, while...
a "Profi" (German equivalent of a pro) is someone, who behaves very professional in a real work relationship with me.
Heeyyyy, Wisconsin based drummer here loving all the Fond Du Lac references 😂😁
Have you ever driven down the street and seen an edifice called a "professional building"? Usually, such places house medical offices. At one time, "professional" was term for any field that required a prescribed amount of education to be certified: law, education, medicine, and engineering. Over time, it has devolved from that to "anyone who gets paid" to do a task to "anyone who is very good at something." Now get off my rhetorical lawn.
Superb :)
it is about attitude, thanks for pointing out many other good points too !
Great video nate. How have making these videos changed you do you think. You seem really comfortable in front of the camera compared to older videos. Has this crossed over to your real life? Keep it up.
Yea I've become an insufferable douche in real life. Just ordering people around the big-timing everybody 🤣🤣😎
Very cool video man!! Cheers from italy!
dude your vids are great, and so is your playing
dumb question: whats that song at 6:05? has been bugging me for a solid hour now.
All I know is it's snarky puppy
I played Fond Du Lac many years ago! Good crowds.
As a Wisconsonite, I just want to say I like the fact that you referenced Fond du Lac, not once, but twice.
Nate - “the thinking man’s drummer”.
You're really good man!
This is great stuff
"Practice doesn't make you perfect. It just makes you better"
-Tony F. Corpse
This video nails it.
Ethymology says, a Pro is short for professional. Get paid for doing one thing and make a living out of it that was my goal growing up, and probably everyone else's. That's far from proficient, effective and fluent skill people usually refer as such.
20 years later, I dare to say i was stubborn enough to keep going and diligent. I dropped out my career to be who i wanted to be.
Wouldn't recommend that and i found myself being happier, but also having difficulties no school ever prepare you to face.
There's no pride or reasons to back up any arrogance on being a full time musician. It humbles you. Puts you in a endless risk. All the pros I meet are ronin warriors devoted to their craft. Very few get lucky to be owners of their own project, become a household name, and the glitter of fancy things that are superficial and pointless...
It's being and independent contractor of entertainment, but hopefully try to not to be a "one trick pony" and just do that only. Specially on this times where next performance is so far it is not promising.
Patience, patience, patience... Do you like dealing with divas?(as in, cocky guitarrists, singers and centerpieces?), Do you realize you barely will be yhe guy in the center, in the promo photo or credits? Do you like waiting for payments?(and the possibilites of never happening ones?), Learning material you don't like, being told ALL THE TIME what to do and dissmis your musical criteria and serve the material as they told you? Read music? Or invest time and money on learning how to, just to have all the material served in spoticrap/youtube playlist of 30 songs to learn for tomorrow, so probably 20 will do, and 10 will be request or last minute set list changes?
It doesn't pay a lot. Nowhere. Enough in some places, but declining aince hobbyist take over and charge whatever just to impress their friends and grab some beers, create a bad rep and make bar owners believe musicians aren't serious about their craft, or even worst, dealing with pros with sickening attitudes that burry the good impression others try to make.
There are safer, better, less stressful and depressing ways to pay rent and go thru life. If you don't love music more than anything and NOTHING tops performing your soul out every time you can, find something else and play on weekends with friends. Get a partner and marry. Hang out with your parents and family, be able to have a normal life with music in it. Being pro isn't hell. Being pro is commitment to music, your craft and risk everything, everyday. Chances are things can go better if you play your cards right. But the worst case scenario can be a nightmare nobody would subscribe to, if music is not the main thing for you.
Man, you tell the truth and make me laugh everytime! Thank you! Uhhh... maybe pro comedian?! ( I once paid my bills playing drums, but I never uttered the word pro, never thought about it actually. Neither did my bandmates, we just went home to bed after the gig. Hmmm...)
I posted most of what you just said on Quincy Davis's site. Got an answer yesterday. He was pissed at me for telling the truth about this very subject. He said I was taking away the joy from the young guys. I was just being honest. I was out there and did all the travel and gig stuff. Not what I thought it would be. Never did it for the money. I guess the part he did not like most was about the Bar gigs. $35.00.00 a hot dog and a cheap beer from the tap if you're lucky. Yes, I was negative. Get a degree and teach at a nice high school. 80/20 keep up the good work. Someone had to say it.
I do not play the drums or plan to ever begin but I still watch all these videos for some reason
Love that you are an F1 fan.
How do you spell "cache""? Thnx!
really enjoyed the background drums
Did you finally get your own practice space
I’m not a drummer and never will be but I watch all these vids because a) they are funny as hell and b) I like to understand what makes a good musician, and they help me listen to drummers and see what makes them good.
Number 1- Eating. Number 2- Reliable shelter. Number 3- Reliable transportation. Number 4- Gigs that you enjoy playing. Number 5- A new change of clothes every 10-15 years.
I didn’t even need to watch the video.
Dude, love your channel (can you do a [five-year] follow-up on the Play like Mark Guiliana ?? I still go back to that sh*t!!)
Your wedding bands comment reminds me of how many lounge players I've seen over the years who look like they simply wanted to die. Regular gigs, decent money, playing The Girl From Ipanema and that ONE OVERPLAYED Kenny G tune.
bro the FIA gonna clamp down on your Mad Max clips!
I have a thought for you to consider. Play for Abraham Laboriel Sr. or Anthony Jackson and you will quickly find out what your level of musicianship is. No amount of talking is going to camouflage weak timing or inexperienced musical choices in the here and now.
like it´s said in argentinian: "un manto de humildad, che"
Cool Videos but how about using credits for all the snippets you cut in?
man, you're the shit. Thanks
Straight taking names😂😂😂
This is solid bro
I posted most of what you just said to A Quincy Davis's site. Got an answer yesterday. He was pissed at me for telling the truth about this very subject. He said I was taking away the joy from the young guys. I was just being honest. I was out there and did all the travel and gig stuff. Not what I thought it would be. Never did it for the money. I guess the part he did not like most was about the Bar gigs. $35.00.00 a hot dog and a cheap beer from the tap if you're lucky. Yes, I was negative. Get a degree and teach at a nice h
And that's how you get the gig. You heard it here on Rational- er, The 80/20 Drummer.
Hi Nate! I’m an audio engineer who’s a huge fan of your content. I noticed your intro sound quality could use a boost and I’d love to schedule a brief zoom consultation to discuss options! No charge, I'm just a fan interested in seeing you create the highest quality content for myself and others
I work in a cruise ship....
Hit the nail on the head!
Truth abounds
Yes! Aviation content again--and multiple references to boot. The drought is over!
It's clear I don't know anything about Gulfstreams tho. I'm waiting for the first guy to tell me those aren't real gulfstream models 😜
@@8020drummer Gulfstream actually made it pretty easy in naming the series I, II, III, IV, V, and now VI. Your example however, made your humor work even better so don't let any airplane nitpickers give you guff on this point as it would only show they lack a sense of humor. 🤣
Neal Schier I’m actually not that into PJs anyway. Before covid I preferred widebodies. I used my credit card points to fly in business class for like $45 to Japan. Poor man’s PJ. Hope those days return 🤣
@@8020drummer When I got checked out on the 747 the grey-beard Captain that did the final checkout, said: I only want to be on an aircraft that I can easily walk under. That means the walk-around (pre-flight check) is easier and that the passengers will be happier because the business class section will be roomy. Boy did he ever know so many other important things in life and he remains one of the favorite guys I ever flew with.
Wonder if there is a corlation to drumming gigs? Is there an equivalent grey-beard wisdom from those of who you have been working at the musical coal face for years?
Sure the great advice borne of your experience that you have passed along in these great video lessons, but are there some that are the equivalent of "always travel on a plane big enough that you can walk under it?"
Maybe only do gigs if the set up allows enough room for you to have, if needed, your full kit AND to be comfortable behind the it. This means not being pushed so far the the side or back of the stage risers that you think you are certain to lose a cymbal, a floor tom, or even the high hat at some point during the set. Or that you are pushed so far to the back that you might tumble off the back.
Perhaps an idea for a VERY tongue in cheek episode on being the most comfortable one can be at any gig--including the wedding gigs 😂🤣😂
notice how he didnt censor twoset 😂 this is why im subbed to you
He,s right!
This vid is a PRO FLEX! ❤️❤️❤️😂🤣
I will roll down on the toms. Promise.
There is the “Certified PRO” Category on Fiverr...Kind of a vetted way of charging more.
Guy sounds like Kevin McDonald from Kids In The Hall...
_Constructive comment:_ these are great life tips, enjoyed watching.
"Max fucking Verstappen. Don't even get me started there." :D :D :D With you there.
Awesome video!
I love your channel
Man what happened to expert village?
I know - RIP
My life is complete. Sahil Khan in a pro drummer video at 1:39