What a very useful video, Andy. Much appreciated, from England. You’re lucky to have a dry climate, as here in the north of Britain, it’s so wet this summer, that I can’t pit fire at all.
I really really appreciate you. I’m trying out my first little pitfire of pinch pots in my backyard. You gave me all the knowledge I needed to try and helped me get back into ceramics. Thank you, Andy! ❤
Very nice video Andy, I melted an .06 cone in a fire one time that is 1828F. I think I’ll get a hand full of different cones to try. Different fuels give different temps too . Thanks
One of your viewers indicated the Thermocouple needs to be calibrated. This is true but also applies to both methods. To minimize the variance between the two methods is to measure something of known temperature such as a cast iron skillet in an oven. If set to lets say 500degF then measure using both methods. With this information one can then with some variability know what the temperature correction is needed for use when firing the pottery outdoors. Thanks for sharing.
Like how you present and are clear about what you hope to do and see. Certainly, giving me a boost each time. Ta. ps I am just collecting local clay and pit firing in Scotland!
Thanks again Andy! I was looking for a heat gun yesterday with a high temp range. LOL there it is this AM. Placed an order just now👍 Multi use-cooking, forging and ceramic firing!
wow andy! i cant Wow Andy !! I was really surprised by the result, How the hematite turned red, it was yellow (I think your yellow pot is nicer but still the result is really amazing! listen i have an red dirt Which is really easy to achieve and i tried to make from it red paint pottery And guess what? it worked!! But the color was not red it turned into a beautiful black I highly recommend you also try (: i realy enjoy from this video And I would be very happy if you would make more videos on the preparation and use of pottery paint thank you!
The temp required varies somewhat depending on the clay used. I usually aim to reach at least 750 C but some clays need a higher temperature than that. I just get them to that temp and then let them start to cool, I do not hold them there a certain amount of time.
To get a real accurate reading with an infrared thermometer you need to account for the emissivity of the material you're measuring. Materials that don't radiate energy into space as easily have a lower emissivity. Most models have an epsilon (ε) setting that lets you approximate the emissivity, which is about 0.9 for most clay materials; but adding alumina or metal oxides could change this by a measurable amount. Oh and btw thermocouples also need to be calibrated. Mine's cheap and doesn't have that adjustment. I ordered a thermocouple. :)
These facts would be relevant if one were doing science, I am not. If my readings are off a little it didn't bother me one bit, but the relative and ballpark temperatures are important to me.
@@AncientPottery well in industry these are referred to as "process temperatures"; it's not the actual temp of the pot you're interested in, but rather the indicated temperature on your equipment that produces good pots. Like you pointed out somewhere else, the true test is that you get an unbroken vessel with good color; not that you're hitting a target temperature on the nose. Just... a lot of people buy an IR temp gun and then get confused when it doesn't show the right temperature, and wonder if it's defective or if IR thermometers are unreliable. You teach a lot of science in your videos whether you know it or not! :)
@@stickyfox I do love science, I just want to emphasize that exact measurements are not that important in this area. It is similar to cooking, the recipe might say a half teaspoon of salt but if you used three quarters of a teaspoon instead possible nobody would even notice. Lots of grey areas and blurry edges in my science.
Ah well in the case I'm happy to help... or complicate anyway! I read somewhere that in general emissivity can even change with temperature. They suggested measuring using a contact thermometer and comparing with the IR value at different temps. I have no idea how much this realistically matters, if at all. I'm sure not everyone must be doing all that with their IR zappers. Maybe only where tight tolerances are needed? I don't know
Hi Andy, Hopefully you can help me....I bought an anolog pyrometer, Sybron Thermolyne brand. I am getting almost no movement in the needle with the probe attached and in a glass of 130 degree water. How long should it take to get a reading? Seconds..Minutes? My husband questions wether it takes batteries or some electricity, it looks like the case is completely closed and only has screws for construction purposes. Any guidance you could give would be appreciated.
Just figured it out, the manufacturer of the probe and leads has the wire color coding backwards.....reversed the wires on the pyrometer and it climbs up right away. My husband was impressed, no batteries!!
This is interesting, what does this show us about the risk of thermal shock ? If the top is so much cooler than the bottom as the fire dies, will that increase the risk of cracking because of thermal shock ? I’m wondering if it makes sense to always raise the pots on a rack when firing to keep it above the coals.
Always temper your clay liberally for outdoor firing so it will withstand the thermal shock. I think the higher you raise the pots, the more they will cool off quickly at the end, so it’s probably a trade off.
I would think it to be a good idea to cover the fire with a barrel once the pottery is up to temp while there are still coals on top. I beleive it would be a solution to temp variations and you get that cool blackend look on the pottery.
Every time I think of a question, I find you've done a video on it...love the face pot! Theoretically a metal can type kiln could fire hot enough for cone 4-5 glaze if kept fed enough. African potters use something similar in some places for firing, I find it interesting that there the temperature fired at, the pottery is then used for holding liquids but more western considerations it wouldn't be considered food safe without that glaze.
“Food safe” is kind of a misleading term as I will discuss in my next video that comes out tomorrow. Not only are non food safe vessels used in Africa and other parts of the world today but also all of our ancestors used such containers for millennia and yet here we are. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I've used the MN Measurement Instruments (you noted) thermocouple/thermometer setup. One of their thermometers reads up to 2500F. Seem to be good quality and relatively inexpensive. They've got a 14.5 and 18.5 inch thermocouple that allow for more angled positioning deep into the fire. A few fire bricks with a gap for the thermocouple protects the wiring behind and also serves as a stand for positioning. www.meter-depot.com/ Thanks for the info on infrared guns.
It is traditional in Southwest pottery to fire only once. So yes, this pottery is greenware going in and it will not be fired a second time. You are welcome.
@@smokertwashington if I wanted to melt glaze I would need some sort of kiln, I don’t think I could ever melt glaze in an above ground firing like this unless it was a lead glaze.
@@AncientPottery Copy that, I am exploring alternatives to accounting as I begin my career! One of the reasons I was drawn to your channel is because I have a great appreciation for the origins of ceramic where! Thanks for all you do!✌️, sidenote if you have any opinion on making a gas barrel kiln out of a metal drum we’d love to hear it! ✌️👍💪
Your assumption that pyrometers are only good for measuring the base of the pot temperature is flawed because you are using a 12" commercial kiln pyrometer that limits the position in your firing. Flexible cable pyrometers can reach ANYWHERE and you can use a multitude in a single fire.
No assumptions made here, just observations based on the equipment I have available to me. Tony Soares uses cones, so there's another option I haven't explored. There is no magic bullet here, some methods are better at others in different situations. If I were using a lot of cover sherds in this firing it would have been very hard to get a measurement with the infrared gun. A guy posted a picture on the "Primitive Pottery" Facebook group yesterday of his 17 inch thermocouple arranged with some bricks to measure the middle of the firing stack. So there are many other options available to the potter with some imagination.
@@AncientPottery peki en azından sorduğum soruları cevap yazma imkanın var mı? Bazen çamurun içine birşey koyuyorsun ve ne olduğu yazmıyor. Ben de merak ediyorum. Hobi olarak uğraşıyorum seramik ile. Ve burda geleneksel yöntemlerle çekilen videolar yok.
What a very useful video, Andy. Much appreciated, from England. You’re lucky to have a dry climate, as here in the north of Britain, it’s so wet this summer, that I can’t pit fire at all.
Oh that stinks.
I really really appreciate you. I’m trying out my first little pitfire of pinch pots in my backyard. You gave me all the knowledge I needed to try and helped me get back into ceramics. Thank you, Andy! ❤
That heat gun is going to revolutionize out door firing...great video...Thank you!
Thanks Allen. Definitely a big help to me.
I like your logical and cautious experimentation. Michael
Thank you
Very nice video Andy, I melted an .06 cone in a fire one time that is 1828F. I think I’ll get a hand full of different cones to try. Different fuels give different temps too . Thanks
Thanks Tony. I totally forgot about cones, that would be a great comparison too.
One of your viewers indicated the Thermocouple needs to be calibrated. This is true but also applies to both methods. To minimize the variance between the two methods is to measure something of known temperature such as a cast iron skillet in an oven. If set to lets say 500degF then measure using both methods. With this information one can then with some variability know what the temperature correction is needed for use when firing the pottery outdoors. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the tips
Like how you present and are clear about what you hope to do and see. Certainly, giving me a boost each time. Ta. ps I am just collecting local clay and pit firing in Scotland!
Thanks so much. Glad to hear you are doing it in Scotland, how awesome.
Very helpful Andy. Got an infrared gun for Christmas and can't wait to use it, your video as usual very informative.
Thank you, have fun with that infrared thermometer!
Thank you, Andy, it's very informative. Useful video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Andy, good show , great information, thanks ROB
Thanks Rob, glad you enjoyed it.
Very useful video! Thanks so muchl
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks again Andy! I was looking for a heat gun yesterday with a high temp range. LOL there it is this AM. Placed an order just now👍 Multi use-cooking, forging and ceramic firing!
Great timing! Thanks for watching.
wow andy! i cant Wow Andy !! I was really surprised by the result,
How the hematite turned red, it was yellow (I think your yellow pot is nicer but still the result is really amazing!
listen i have an red dirt Which is really easy to achieve and i tried to make from it red paint pottery
And guess what?
it worked!! But the color was not red it turned into a beautiful black
I highly recommend you also try (:
i realy enjoy from this video And I would be very happy if you would make more videos on the preparation and use of pottery paint
thank you!
Thank you. Yes that yellow is always surprising when it turns red.
Hi Andy! Would just like to ask what is the best temperature for the pots? And how long should it stay in that temperature? Thank you much.
The temp required varies somewhat depending on the clay used. I usually aim to reach at least 750 C but some clays need a higher temperature than that. I just get them to that temp and then let them start to cool, I do not hold them there a certain amount of time.
What would you use to cover pottery when you first start? No shards available?
Bits of metal, an old bucket, broken flower pots...
To get a real accurate reading with an infrared thermometer you need to account for the emissivity of the material you're measuring. Materials that don't radiate energy into space as easily have a lower emissivity. Most models have an epsilon (ε) setting that lets you approximate the emissivity, which is about 0.9 for most clay materials; but adding alumina or metal oxides could change this by a measurable amount. Oh and btw thermocouples also need to be calibrated.
Mine's cheap and doesn't have that adjustment. I ordered a thermocouple. :)
These facts would be relevant if one were doing science, I am not. If my readings are off a little it didn't bother me one bit, but the relative and ballpark temperatures are important to me.
@@AncientPottery well in industry these are referred to as "process temperatures"; it's not the actual temp of the pot you're interested in, but rather the indicated temperature on your equipment that produces good pots. Like you pointed out somewhere else, the true test is that you get an unbroken vessel with good color; not that you're hitting a target temperature on the nose.
Just... a lot of people buy an IR temp gun and then get confused when it doesn't show the right temperature, and wonder if it's defective or if IR thermometers are unreliable.
You teach a lot of science in your videos whether you know it or not! :)
@@stickyfox I do love science, I just want to emphasize that exact measurements are not that important in this area. It is similar to cooking, the recipe might say a half teaspoon of salt but if you used three quarters of a teaspoon instead possible nobody would even notice. Lots of grey areas and blurry edges in my science.
Every time I think I've seen all your videos, I find another excellent one! Do you do anything about adjusting emissivity?
I've never even heard of it before this comment. Then I looked it up, so maybe I need to but was just ignorant up until now.
Ah well in the case I'm happy to help... or complicate anyway! I read somewhere that in general emissivity can even change with temperature. They suggested measuring using a contact thermometer and comparing with the IR value at different temps. I have no idea how much this realistically matters, if at all. I'm sure not everyone must be doing all that with their IR zappers. Maybe only where tight tolerances are needed? I don't know
Hi Andy, Hopefully you can help me....I bought an anolog pyrometer, Sybron Thermolyne brand. I am getting almost no movement in the needle with the probe attached and in a glass of 130 degree water. How long should it take to get a reading? Seconds..Minutes? My husband questions wether it takes batteries or some electricity, it looks like the case is completely closed and only has screws for construction purposes. Any guidance you could give would be appreciated.
Just figured it out, the manufacturer of the probe and leads has the wire color coding backwards.....reversed the wires on the pyrometer and it climbs up right away. My husband was impressed, no batteries!!
Glad you figured it out. It is miraculous how those things work with no power source.
This is interesting, what does this show us about the risk of thermal shock ? If the top is so much cooler than the bottom as the fire dies, will that increase the risk of cracking because of thermal shock ? I’m wondering if it makes sense to always raise the pots on a rack when firing to keep it above the coals.
Always temper your clay liberally for outdoor firing so it will withstand the thermal shock. I think the higher you raise the pots, the more they will cool off quickly at the end, so it’s probably a trade off.
I would think it to be a good idea to cover the fire with a barrel once the pottery is up to temp while there are still coals on top. I beleive it would be a solution to temp variations and you get that cool blackend look on the pottery.
Every time I think of a question, I find you've done a video on it...love the face pot! Theoretically a metal can type kiln could fire hot enough for cone 4-5 glaze if kept fed enough. African potters use something similar in some places for firing, I find it interesting that there the temperature fired at, the pottery is then used for holding liquids but more western considerations it wouldn't be considered food safe without that glaze.
“Food safe” is kind of a misleading term as I will discuss in my next video that comes out tomorrow. Not only are non food safe vessels used in Africa and other parts of the world today but also all of our ancestors used such containers for millennia and yet here we are. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Where is the video ' over here'? I can't see the link. :-)
I've used the MN Measurement Instruments (you noted) thermocouple/thermometer setup. One of their thermometers reads up to 2500F. Seem to be good quality and relatively inexpensive. They've got a 14.5 and 18.5 inch thermocouple that allow for more angled positioning deep into the fire. A few fire bricks with a gap for the thermocouple protects the wiring behind and also serves as a stand for positioning.
www.meter-depot.com/
Thanks for the info on infrared guns.
Thanks for the tip, that long thermocouple would be great for this kind of firing. I would love to see a photo of that brick setup, interesting idea.
So since you put more wood on it, did the pottery vitrify?
I reached 800 C. I’m not sure if that is hot enough to vitrify or not, but the pot does ring nicely. It’s certainly hot enough for my purposes.
To be clear, are you Pitt firing bone dry pottery, first time firing ? Or are they bisc fired first ? Thanks for your vids!
It is traditional in Southwest pottery to fire only once. So yes, this pottery is greenware going in and it will not be fired a second time. You are welcome.
@@AncientPottery awesome do you think you could fire a second time with glaze or does that require too high of temps? ✌️
@@smokertwashington if I wanted to melt glaze I would need some sort of kiln, I don’t think I could ever melt glaze in an above ground firing like this unless it was a lead glaze.
@@AncientPottery Copy that, I am exploring alternatives to accounting as I begin my career! One of the reasons I was drawn to your channel is because I have a great appreciation for the origins of ceramic where! Thanks for all you do!✌️, sidenote if you have any opinion on making a gas barrel kiln out of a metal drum we’d love to hear it! ✌️👍💪
Darn. I just got a thermocouple for Christmas.
Thermocouples still work good.
i got one like it on ebay. not making bezos richer. but it looks at coals and is fooled by the ash, and underestimates what i think the temp is.
Not super accurate all the time. I usually take 4 or 5 measurements and average them out. Close enough.
hmmm I need to make sure I have enough wood for my firing
It definitely takes a bit of wood, better to have too much than not enough.
Your assumption that pyrometers are only good for measuring the base of the pot temperature is flawed because you are using a 12" commercial kiln pyrometer that limits the position in your firing. Flexible cable pyrometers can reach ANYWHERE and you can use a multitude in a single fire.
No assumptions made here, just observations based on the equipment I have available to me. Tony Soares uses cones, so there's another option I haven't explored. There is no magic bullet here, some methods are better at others in different situations. If I were using a lot of cover sherds in this firing it would have been very hard to get a measurement with the infrared gun. A guy posted a picture on the "Primitive Pottery" Facebook group yesterday of his 17 inch thermocouple arranged with some bricks to measure the middle of the firing stack. So there are many other options available to the potter with some imagination.
Türkçe altyazılı koyma imkanın var mı?
No, I would have to hire a Turkish speaker to translate, I'm not making much money off of these videos.
@@AncientPottery peki en azından sorduğum soruları cevap yazma imkanın var mı? Bazen çamurun içine birşey koyuyorsun ve ne olduğu yazmıyor. Ben de merak ediyorum. Hobi olarak uğraşıyorum seramik ile. Ve burda geleneksel yöntemlerle çekilen videolar yok.
It looks to me that you have proved that an oven is needed for what you are doing.
I wonder why you do an open fire to cook pottery.
Why is an oven needed? I got my pottery fired, isn’t fired pottery the measure of success here?