Made for Patreon: Rokoko Vs Xsens
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- My take on the Rokoko VS XSens Motion capture suit discussion. DISCLAIMER: I'm not sponsored by XSens, I've bought and paid in full both all the hardware and the software licenses. I haven't got anything for free from them.
TL;DR:
Both suits are great for different reasons. It's like in most other cases: You get what you pay for. Rokoko won't ruin your economy but will also not give you a trouble free solution. XSens will wreak havoc on your bank account, but you'll shed a tear of joy when you see the results.
To see more of my videos, visit www.patreon.com/vizguru - Навчання та стиль
Thanks for the review, it's nice to see a genuine review that isn't sponsored by rokoko. They were very cagey with their info during my 1-on-1 demo with them, this video confirmed my concerns.
Great video. Thanks for the hard to find info actually comparing solutions.
Finally I found a video comparing both equipments!
Xsens Is not indie friendly but their quality is unmatched.
Yeah the Xsens link is amazing, I use it at work with the pro license and we got about 80% of or gameplay/cutscene animation data from it and it looked very good out of the box. Bought the manus gloves recently and will try that to see how the whole body/finger work together. Unfortunately the licensing is so crazy that it's only worth buying if you are a smaller/bigger indie company, if you work solo all the profits would go into the whole licensing which is totally not worth it at this point.
@@jingjingmannen Can you give me a general idea about pricing?
@@jingjingmannen do you have a link to the game you guys are making with xsens?
@@FromFame 'the ascent' on youtube. Most of the animations is using an xsens suit. 🙂
@@jingjingmannen How can you say you have worked on "the ascent" like it is not a big deal :)? really cool game
I've had the Rokoko smart suit 2 and gloves for two months now ( I ordered back in June). Sooooo many problems. I returned the first suit becuase there were dead sensors (again this is the smart suit 2). Even with the new suit I have to acutally power up and power down the suit twice to get all sensors online (It's a known bug according to Rokoko). I've had performances ruined because the sensors glitch out half way through recording. That being said there is really nothing out there that offers mocap at this price point. Hoping the new Rokoko studio will fix some of these issues.
Man that sux! Just curious but did you happen to use it with the latest software updates? I heard that Rokoko is still developing improvements to their software that supposedly will improve the results? Oh, and did you also still have any magnetic issues with the Smartsuit Pro 2?
Whaoooo, thought I was alone. I am having the EXACT SAME issues as I type this. The entire left side of my upper body suit is dOA. It was brand new, never used. Reached out to customer support, did a zoom call at the crack of dawn and the tech, Yiannis, couldn't fix the issue, so he sent me new cables to replace what he assumed were broken ones. Well... those cables were NOT the problem. Same problem occurs. $4,000 suit just hangs there and now customer support isn't responding or is taking a MONTH to respond to my emails. I have to blast every possible email in their company to get a response.
It seems you just had a bad experience! I got the Pro 2! And it Works , I guess I understand the suit more than most!
@@enigmawstudios4130 Have you tried their discord channels ?
@@enigmawstudios4130 That's pretty pathetic
This was so helpful!! Thank you so much for making this video.
I tested my Smartsuit 2 for the first time this weekend and had many issues getting it up and running with the gloves, but I think that was more about me not using the the new beta of the Studio software. Once I did that, the process was pretty robust and worked well. I had some issues with the thumbs not bending as far as my actual thumbs did, but overall it was pretty nice for someone just getting into mocap and doesn't need AAA quality. I had ordered a medium suit and it was too small, but Rokoko was cool enough to give me two options: either swap the medium for a large...or give me half-off on a second larger textile to swap in the electronics (ended up being $200). I opted to have the medium and large because my wife is a dancer and she can use the smaller suit. It takes about 15 minutes to change the sensor gear from one suit to the other.
Great info. Anymore tips? Is wifi all that's needed? What's the wifi/ suit capability range from laptop?
It's a shame that the pricing for xsens and their subscription software are that expansive. I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be any competition at all if their stuff was more affordable for the usual 3D enthusiast or people who are working on small studios. I mean, the way I see it the only "pro" rokoko has really is being a cheaper solution. It doesn't reach anywhere near the raw data, it has tons of signal issues and there is so much cleanup to do that makes me wonder if it's not just easier to make the animations by hand to begin with.
What kills me seing xsens as a viable option is their software forced subscription. I get that the tech being provided from xsens are top notch, but it's just an ahole practice forcing you to pay extra $250++++USD, MONTHLY, after spending almost $10.000USD on a suit. To americans and other 1st world people it's already expansive, for people not so fortunate to be born there it's just impossible to possibly afford one. Pretty sure that's their pricing just because they can and there isn't anyone forcing their hand there
100%. Theyre in for a rude awakening as the market expands.
Excellent thanks for posting !
I have a question....what if we get zn xsens awinda starter pack and the rokoko smartgloves....that way we can save $3500 and still have good results....can we do that? [btw VERY HELPFUL VIDEO....Thank you :) ]
Could that knee popping be fixed by making a new profile with exact limb measurements? I don't know if Suit ver 1 has that feature but ver2 does.
Did you ever make a video about the xsens cleanup process?
Puedes compararlo con IPI soft?
what's the price for the xsense setup I see the starting at 4K but really whats the starting price? minus the 3K per year support?
I'm using Noitom's Neuron Studio - it doesn't have a monthly subscription and costs roughly half of Xsens. I'm super happy with the results. I also have Rokokko and had numerous problems with it :/. In my opinion, it can't really record walking and for sure running. I use it only for stationary dialogue animations.
I am having the same problem with rokoko, simple walk is imposible 😞the recording motion is always leaning and limping
Would xsens be worth it if I don’t plan on expiring and data and I just want real time movement?
that price tag is crealrly not for a hobbyist imo, great video jojo.
is rokoko still jittery and not worth buying in October 2023? or is it improved alot?
Nope, still bad
I wonder how the latest suit and rokoko beta holds up now?
Hey Viz Guru. Does XSens cloud processing support gloves?
Yes :)
@@TextureSupply this awesome thank you! I'll be definitely upgrading from my smartsuit.
I am professional cinematics producer and so far Rokoko was barely usable even for a preVis. XSens looks very promising.
@@DeviantPicturess It's great, if you got the money go for it.
I wish you made this video 2 months ago about Rokoko. I followed the same path and ended up with MVN Link. And I am cursing every single second that I lived with rokoko. I do not think Xsens is expensive when you think about all the hours you spend just to do cleanups to rokoko captures. I feel you
Xsens link is amazing, love it.
Is it true you have to pay 22k / year to get the cleanup software?
@@prodev4012 what is the cleanup software. If you are talking about the sofware there are 3 options. If you just need fbx export then it is 2.7K, if you just need live streaming to unity/unreal/maya etc etc.. then it is 2.7 again. Or if you want unlimited options with locak processing then it is 9K
It’s seems to me you don’t really understand These suits! Second I have Rokoko pro 2, so it’s much better! Also when you use these suits you do it in clips! Then clean up.
It’s seems to me you don’t really understand These suits! Second I have Rokoko pro 2, so it’s much better! Also when you use these suits you do it in clips! Then clean up.
Thanks for this review... Unfortunately Xsens is VERY VERY VERY expensive.. Although their trackers are the same like 4 years before (I guess), the price is still HUGE for a solo/indie artist or filmmaker.. Definitely only few can afford to buy it, so the rest of us we are just watching.
Sure. Imo I wouldn't call it "very very very" expensive however. Rokoko smart suit pro 2 is 2745 dollars (ex gloves). Xsens awinda starter is 4000 dollars (ex gloves). So for the suit itself it's only 1300 dollars more but gives an uncomparable result. Of course when adding the gloves, xsens takes off in price. But even with the gloves xsens is about double the price of rokoko but it delivers a magnitude better quality. And compared to optical solutions like the high end studios use, xsens only costs a fraction.
Honestly for the hardware I think xsens pricing is exactly where it should be. Sure it's not priced towards hobbyist but the time one spend trying to make the rokoko data usable costs a lot more than what the xsens costs.
If one needs a mocap suit they better have a motivation for it regardless and a solo/indie studio spending 8000 dollars on gear that is essential to their production isn't anything strange. Just like if a filmmaker wants to get a proper high end camera for recording video, an A7Siii with some lenses, a gimbal and other tools would be the same money.
Yes xsens are targeting those who are serious and want to produce things, and not those who just wanna play around a little. :-)
@@TextureSupply what makes it expensive is not the price of the suit but the subscription in a few years you end up paying a fortune since the monthly and annual subscription is very expensive for someone independent.
@@enrix00 yep, 22k for a perpetual license last time I inquired
@@evesattler1570 o-o
@@evesattler1570 wait i'll have to trade in my new car?
There is one issue with Xsens: when using the HTC Vive tracker, you cannot track the absolute position of the hand or pelvis. It keeps drifting, even if you attach multiple Vive trackers to the suit. You cannot do object tracking accurately.
What kind of craziness is needed to demand 250 USD a month for a software subscription like this, which is even a half-assed solution (the online part) I get cloud rendering is not cheap, but the 9K price tag for the software otherwise... Lolz... They should be ready to get absolutely rekt once more contenders enter the arena that is "mocap for the masses".
Hey man, thanks for the video! Can you create another one demonstrating Xsens while you are lying on the ground on your back and moving your legs in the air, bending them, twisting your body, standing on your knees. Because in this video you showed pretty basic movements that almost any mocap suit can handle. Basically it would be great to see a demonstration of pushing Xsens suit to its limits and find situations where it can not handle certain body poses or movements.
Absolutely. This video wasn't meant to be a comparison of what the suites can and can't do, but I'd be happy to do so with both of them.
However already in the simple walking animations one can see a clear difference. But your suggestion definitely would be interesting :)
The most advanced things I've tried with the xsens suit so far are like round kicks and hand stands, which both have been working exceptionally. Seems i got to step it up 😅
In this video at 38:15 you can see that her whole body floats inside the floor right after she sits on the floor ua-cam.com/video/E2W1_-8ofeQ/v-deo.html
Can movements from this dance be recorded in Xsens? ua-cam.com/video/FekAXb7PL9Y/v-deo.html
@@yaruuvva but that (body floating through floor) looks like a real time vtubing, which cannot be HD processed. The HD processing is the key to xsens great results and it can't be done in real-time.
Fairly pleased with my 1st generation Perception Neuron... $0 a month for the software.
Bought Rokoko suit back in October, it arrived in Februrary BROKEN. The entire left side of my upper body suit is dOA. It was brand new, never used. Reached out to customer support, did a zoom call at the crack of dawn and the tech, Yiannis, couldn't fix the issue, so he sent me new cables to replace what he assumed were broken ones. Well... those cables were NOT the problem. Same problem occurs. $4,000 suit just hangs there and now customer support isn't responding or is taking a MONTH to respond to my emails. I have to blast every possible email in their company to get a response. I really thought their customer service was superior as so many trusted sources vouched for them but this has been a massive headache.
Viz Guru, what is the base cost to get what you were able to achieve here?
I was contemplating between Xsens and Rokoko.. money for both suits were no issue but xsens subscription fee for the software on a yearly basis @ 2000 dollars is just stupid for an Indie with low starting revenue.. If they ever going to change this and remove that fee, or just sell the hardware with a very bare bones software i would get it without even thinking.. Now i just received the Pro 2 suit and gloves today. so hope they have fixed many of the issues with it.
How did it go with your suit 2?
yeahhh how it was?
You need The Pro 2 , I got it!
Hi, are you still using the Suit (Xsens)?
THX BRO
13:32 😂 did she really flew away ? 😅
I'm getting the Smart Suite 2 next month. Been on the waiting list. Hoping it's better than version 1. I have 30 days to try it, and can take it back if I'm not happy with it. The Xsens software is just out of budget. Up to this point I've been buying mocap files and altering the animation, so having a suit is faster than that haha
Would love to hear your opinions about it when you get it. And I totally agree with you as any suit is better than none, especially if you don't mind the clean-up work.
Personally I'm afraid it won't be much better but I do hope I'm wrong. Reason for my belief is partly since it still lacks magnetic immunity, but mostly because of the fact that XSens raw data isn't any better than Rokoko at all. Honestly the XSens raw data is crap, but their (expensive) reprocessing does all the heavy lifting. I personally think Rokoko would have so much more to gain on developing a pro version of their software with reprocessing comparable to XSens rather than developing a new suit to go with the same sub-par software.
I do really hope smart suit pro 2 will be better though, and I keep my hopes up that they will indeed release a new version of Rokoko Studio with better reprocessing algorithms. It could become a really vicious and much needed competitor to XSens.
@@TextureSupply I'll send you a fb message with feedback once I get it. Got an email yesterday saying it ships mid February. Sam at Rokoko said they'll will be some cool updates with their software over time, but we'll see. I personally don't mind cleaning up, but if the animations come out pure shit, with no accuracy then I'll take it back. My house is mostly wood so I'm hoping the magnetic interference isn't too bad. Might put the software on a laptop and do it outside with a router just for Rokoko. I would definitely get Xsens if I could afford the monthly costs but not in my budget. I'm a 3D Visual Designer, who does mainly product renders, and motion design. I don't do character animation professionally. I do personal music video projects, and this suite will help with that. Curious to see your future tests, so I can dream one day Xsens lowers their price..lol
@@TextureSupply Yes this is exactly what rokoko need. I tried the on hardware recording on xsens link suit when the actor walked up and down a stair case outside of the wifi range and then went back and the raw data was completely borked but once the HD processing was done it was more or less flawless.
@@sinuous1 hey how is the suit?
@@CGokce6 I just received the suit a week ago, and been so busy with client work haven't had a chance to try it yet. Will report back after I run it through some tests.
My son was allowed to use a Rokoko suit for his project at home, it was very frustrating, especially when one of the scenes we wanted to create had the character supposed to be lying on a bed to then get up and sit on the edge of the bed. We found it impossible to get the scene we wanted because the simulation would "fly away" just like the Yoga demonstration simulation on this video, so long as you were upright it would work OK but anything where you're meant to be on your back would be incredibly difficult............if I'm purchasing a MC suit then it means paying for the Xsense just to get the results I need!
What about using the raw data for streaming does anyone know how well these suits both handle at all😅
Imo the raw data is pretty much the same. Have seen some rrallly nice streaming results with xsens tho. @codemiko is one!
Can you actually livestream with Xsens then...you said you had to pre-record on the cloud i think.
There is an update coming end of January or February for Rokoko Studio that should improve the accuracy of capturing. There are 2 versions of sensors and some of the 1st version motioncapture suits have them, they are the same as in the 2nd version of the suit. So accuracy should be the same and they support the height levels. Looking forward how much the update improves the quality.
Also you can jump in Rokoko Studio if you use the virtual production with the vive base stations and vive trackers. Thou you need to change to legacy filter for it to work :)
what does it mean some of the 1st version suits also have the sensors? Did they put them in before launching the 2nd suit? That doesn`t really make sense to me, but in case you are correct how would I know if my suit had the new sensors in it?
@@evesattler1570 This information is from their Discord and youtube live, but some of the Smartsuit I´s have the same sensors than the Smartsuit II (maybe availability/production thing?). As far as I understood the only way to check this out is to reach the Rokoko Support. The new Rokoko Studio Beta was actually launched yesterday: ua-cam.com/video/R43-A_49HqM/v-deo.html&t (thou remember it is still in beta so problems expected).
@@jmtrueboarder interesting, thank you I will check with Rokoko support - but I think my chances of having the new sensors are rather low since I got my suit June 2021
@@evesattler1570 The v2 sensors shipped out in Nov 2021, within Suit v1 textile. In Feb 2022 they started shipping v2 sensors in v2 textile.
I have Pro 2 and it much better! Xsens is using ICloud clean up! But it’s raw data also have flaws! It’s just there Post processing is much better than Rokoko, however, if they didn’t have it you would see the same flaws. All inertial sensors by design are flawed by design due too the ability to interpret the force required to register a movement! Big studios always use optics cameras!
Flying Yoga is a thing 😂
rococo ruined all my work. I am about to invest in xsense. Can you do a more animated review video? Like jumping and climbing stairs
Ok then… I will continue make animations in Maya😂
Rokoko is replacing redbull 😂😂
Well. I wanted to buy the xsens but after seeing this video it would be impossible.
7:35 a strain gauge!
Thank you ☺️
@@TextureSupplyyou're welcome :D
Compare Rokoko with Perception Neuron 3
Yeah. Considering how expensive XSENS Software is it not for indie 1-2 people studios. What we should be comparing is Rokoko, Ipi Soft and Perception Neuron 3.
@@laurynassuliauskas167 Rokoko, isn't good as i thought, and Perception 3 is better, but i have came across HTC Vive mocap it's alot cheaper and can give good results for far less cheaper
@@HeLIEl I had a hunch Rokoko isn't very good. There's just too many people telling stories or regret.
Have you tried Ipi Soft? It requires a couple of kinects and the permanent software license is like 600 bucks.
@@laurynassuliauskas167 Nope I saw the IpI Soft, but they want a arm and a leg for it (high end version) I'm in the middle upgrading my Pc in the mean time
The Rokoko pro 2 is much better! I have Pro 2! The xsens is too expensive plus the Xsens is being processed that’s why the data, is cleaner
9000$ a year for a software subscription? WTF ... are they serious? This is definitely a rip-off and exploitation. There is by far absolut no justification for that price. Even if i would have the money, i would boycott XSense, cause of principles.
Again, depends on from what perspective you're looking at it. You and I are simply not their target audiences.
I would say the same about a car that costs 100.000 dollars, because I don't think it's worth the price.
Not sure why you would boycott it even if you had the money. Would you instead buy the more expensive opti track? Or would you buy the cheaper rokoko suit and had to spend countless hours on clean up? Where do you draw the line? :)
I'm sure xsens are making good money on software but it is in fact a freakishly good software so I do definitely understand their price point.
If a triple-A game studio need a mocap solution that is easy to work with and fills all their needs, even the perpetual licens is cheap in the big perspective. It's 20k dollars but will help them sell their game for many millions of dollars.
@@TextureSupply Even if I had the money, I would boycott it, cause they take advantage of their monopoly status and they get paid for it and that's rip-off. Not because there is any special service or maintenance in this scale behind this $9,000 per year investment.
Monopolies are often seen as dangerous or harmful in business because they destroy the market and mostly leave little room for other applicants. There is too little offered on the market and therefore the price is too high. Not because the product is worth the price and if Rokoko get the same quality in future, than look, how the price drops about this 9000$ rip-off and XSense would still earn money.
XSense would even earn much more money, if they think also in long-term if they adapt the price and offer at least different solutions. Big studios, Indies, freelancer and students. What they offer for indies is pretty a joke. There are many companies who offer fexible and intelligent solutions and thats the way, how they "spread" their product in the market. The student will one day maybe a Artdirector in a big company and the more students use a software, the more this product will etablish in the market.
The market produce less quality animation, because they cant affort it. The overall production quality drops wordwide for this reason.
I do not support companies that abuse the free market economy through their monopoly status. Adobe is doing that, also marvelous designer, Autodesk ... why they force you to subscriptions. But if you look closer, the programs are so mature, you dont need every 3 month an update and if you look even closer on the updates, most things are even gimmiks, which you dont need for your pipeline. Artist should boycott such companies as far as they can.
Therefore its very important, that Blender is growing, cause this produce pressure on Autodesk and therefore its very important, that Rokkoko is growing. Same with Affinity Photo, so Adobe gets pressure.
But the problem is, that big companies like Autodesk buy Softimage and after destroy Softimage, Maxon buy ZBrush (lets see what happens in future), Adobe buy Substance Painter (force you now to subscrpitions ... thats ugly) and so on. This is also a dangerous tendency and this big companies are all about "money" and not about "passion".
You should understand this term a bit deeper. We have here many artist who are students, freelancer and so on, where everything starts. We are humans on this earth. Its not everything about money. Noone say, you dont have to earn, but a part of your earning should be an act of your heart and for the world community as an act of solidarity. This way, we keep balance.
I am not a Robin Hood, but what Xsense here do is not fair and dont forgett Karma for abusing. There are higher laws and something, which created the humanity ... so dont think, there are only humans. Humanity is a global project leaded from much higher intelligences.
Fact: Boycott is the best answer to stop monopolist. Their greed destroy the balance in the market and this 9000$ in that scale, is just a payement only for the monopoly status, nothing else ... rip-of cause of gried.
Regarding Rokoko, I've decided their lack of magnetic immunity is a dealbreaker, it just feels like I'm gonna be fighting it a lot.
I really wish though that Xsens would maybe consider, instead of a monthly subscription, just allowing people to buy a fixed number of minutes.
I would be fine with buying 30 minutes for 250, and then just using them AS NEEDED, not taking a 250 hit every single month, that's very punishing.
The reason xsens system is immune to magnetic fields is simple: they don't use magnetometers in the awinda.
Xsens's hardware (gyroscopes really) are significantly better than rokoko's and much more expensive.
I find both of the companies business plans extremely greedy, especially xsen's. Rokoko should not charge so much for such low quality results, their data processing is straightforward bad, and xsens should not charge for processing.
Thank you for explaining, didn't know the technical differences but I would've guessed something similar. And I can totally agree on the pricing points in both cases!!
Pointless comparison, as Rokoko's new 2.0 suit comes out soon and you haven't tried it of course. However you ALREADY judge Rokoko's new suit based on a video?! Come on man, that's unprofessional. Let's wait and see first.
I didn't. If you watch the video I am saying that rokoko smartsuit 2 might solve these issues, however I don't think it will because the issue isn't the sensors or the suit, the issue is rokokos lack of proper reprocessing.
I also said that the videos I've seen so far of the smart suit 2 does indeed look like it's having the same issues because those movements looked jittery as well. Doesn't men I'm judging it, just saying what I've seen.
This videos is not a comparison between xsens and smart suit pro 2, imo that's pretty obvious.
@@TextureSupply It's literally called 'Rokoko Vs Xsens'. If I would compare our vicon setup with an old xsens system 2 weeks before they begin shipping their new system, that would be similarly pointless. But hey, feel free to shout whatever you want into the world, Johannes 'jojo' Lindqvist, I'm just going to ignore you and everything associated with you from now on, both personally and professionally
@@fernando749845 I assume it would feel better if I changed the title to "rokoko smart suit pro 1 vs xsens awinda starter"? I could definitely do, just thought it got a bit too long. I have still explained in the video exactly what I'm comparing and I also clearly explained that they have the new suit around the corner (though I personally don't think it'll solve any of my problems with it).
You're writing like I was intentionally lying about something which I'm clearly not. I'm also not sponsored by anyone, I'm just ventilating my opinions of the tech available today.
I'm happy to have a grown up discussion but you don't seem interested. Also thanks for explaining that you will ignore me from now on, good to know since I otherwise wouldn't notice any difference.
@@fernando749845 Also I should add that I made this video primarily because people have asked me about my opinions about the two since I happen to own both. That's all there is to it. Some asked about my opinion, but I certainly didn't ask about yours.
And I think the comparison remains valid because I'm almost completely certain that their new suit won't solve the issues so many Rokoko users have experienced. There's nothing wrong with the sensors, it's the reprocessing that does a bad job and a new suit won't solve that. Additionally the new suit doesn't have magnetic immunity still so excuse me for not believing it'll be any better than the first suit. I obviously won't be buying the smart suit pro 2, but when others' results start popping up on UA-cam and we see that the mocap data isn't any better, I'll be the first one to say "I told you so".
And if I'm wrong I'll be more than happy to acknowledge that and congratulate Rokoko for their good work. I WANT the Rokoko suit to be better.