Absolutely love your rigorous testing. One would think that you created a paramotor and you'd be happy marketing it. But no, you question your own theories. This is the make of great scientists. You're not afraid to be wrong. This gives me even more confidence to fly my scout. Thumbs up Miro!
Hi guys!! First at all thanks a lot for your efforts making a safe and better the sport!! There are two bigs components witch affect also the torque: The P-factor of the blade, the blade going down generate more lift and also at more rpm more pitch more p- factor and also as faster the propeller and long, even more. The second one is the gyroscopic effect due to the angle change of the propeller plane. Add this components to the equation and the numbers should be God level!!!
Centipedal forces balances out the torq, it cost energi to bank and turn... If you would fight the torq and flying straight it probably been as you planned.... Very interesting video!
Good scientific height on this video, I really looking forward to see the result from the torque compensation test. If you ask Stefan to install small servo motors that turns the compensation blade according to the rpm of the Vittorazi Moster you will end up in Dunajská Streda without the Scout turning ;)
So what you’re saying is that the effective torque and the bank of turn created an equilibrium in the unit. It would it be useful if you were to counteract the torque that was being applied by weight shifting so that you would fly straight and level, and then measure the weight difference on each riser.
There wont be a difference because if you fly straight that means the system is at an equilibrium. The load cells on the risers are measuring the lift of each of the half wing, if they are trimmed the same and no brake input, the load will be the same.
Thank you for the great video! You should be able to measure the torque with the scales if you maintain straight flight with brake or weight shift. Turn measurement accuracy would be better if you took full 360 degrees. What I get from this video: While sitting straight, make sure glider flies straight without power. Add power, if glider turns, then it's all due to the motor torque.
Wonderful testing! Great work. Now in retrospect it does make sense that the load on the risers would reach equilibrium once the turn was induced. You can still measure engine torque by using a load cell between the engine and the frame. However, it may be a challenge to dampen the intense vibrations enough for the loadcell to be effective. Perhaps a sub-frame between the rubber mounts and the frame? Subframe is two planes with a "lazy susan" bearing between. Single load cell mounted in the center between the plates. I would expect the loadcell to generally show the same curve in the data, but it would be considerably more precise than timing how long it takes to turn a glider. Unfortunately it wouldn't tell you if you've fully negated the torque with compensation. Perhaps an even simpler way to measure torque effects would be an IMU to measure the tilt offset?
I’m going to guess that at level flight around 5000-5500rpm with the 132cm Scout prop the torque compensation will be 95-100% effective. I think as the power increases the torque effect will start to slightly outweigh what the Scout can compensate until full power where the the compensation will be around 70% effective. I believe that different prop sizes may effect the compensation also. The reason I think the compensation is less effective at full power is because of the pitch change that occurs when adding full power that creates a gyroscopic effect that unfortunately can’t be countered unless you have counter rotating props. This is also why I believe it is easier to do a steep right turn. The gyroscopic effect of the prop through a pitching moment favours the right.
If you put in exactly enough weight shift to counteract the torque and maintain straight/level flight under power, you would be able to measure the torque in flight. The risers would be loaded unevenly without the interference of gravity in the x-axis.
Just came to this video. You do incredible job! I think you could measure your banking angle (by fixed camera and the horizon) and get the torque values out of there.
I find your videos hugely interesting. In measuring in-flight torque what if you used the ROLL angle with reference to the horizon? Would this not be proportional to the torque being applied? A simple drone body with camera that has artificial horizon in the display telemetry would provide you with the ability to record real time data including pitch, yaw and climb rate.
Great video as usual, I learned quite a lot. Have you considered a gyroscope on the pilot, on the vertical axis, in order to measure torque induced yaw?
the sys in equilibrium=the values are the same regardless of ur directionof flight.try to measure the angle of inclintion in plan of rotation & calculate the values.thanks ,
The advance ratio of the propeller will affect the relationship between revolution rate and torque. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_ratio Your analysis of the effect of angle of bank on the distribution of forces in the risers is correct. If you had measured the angle of bank, you could calculate the forces and therefore the torque. Redo the flights with an inclinometer.
The bars did not move at all. I was sitting straight. Flattop would behave the same if it had symmetrical bars. I assume it has an offset. I have never flown a flattop but I have flown the walkerjet that the flattop is a copy of.
great Job, I think it not will be proportional, low RPM will be less effective than High RPM, if we are going to talk about numbers, maybe, low RPM 60%, High RPM 90%
"The only difference between science and screwing around is writing it down." - Mythbusters Good science Miro, looking forward to the next video.
Absolutely love your rigorous testing. One would think that you created a paramotor and you'd be happy marketing it. But no, you question your own theories. This is the make of great scientists. You're not afraid to be wrong. This gives me even more confidence to fly my scout. Thumbs up Miro!
Hi guys!! First at all thanks a lot for your efforts making a safe and better the sport!!
There are two bigs components witch affect also the torque:
The P-factor of the blade, the blade going down generate more lift and also at more rpm more pitch more p- factor and also as faster the propeller and long, even more.
The second one is the gyroscopic effect due to the angle change of the propeller plane.
Add this components to the equation and the numbers should be God level!!!
As always PERFECT. Keep going.
Centipedal forces balances out the torq, it cost energi to bank and turn... If you would fight the torq and flying straight it probably been as you planned....
Very interesting video!
Really interesting to see the results and thumbs up for trying stuff just for curiosity and knowledge 😊cheers
Good scientific height on this video, I really looking forward to see the result from the torque compensation test.
If you ask Stefan to install small servo motors that turns the compensation blade according to the rpm of the Vittorazi Moster you will end up in Dunajská Streda without the Scout turning ;)
So what you’re saying is that the effective torque and the bank of turn created an equilibrium in the unit. It would it be useful if you were to counteract the torque that was being applied by weight shifting so that you would fly straight and level, and then measure the weight difference on each riser.
There wont be a difference because if you fly straight that means the system is at an equilibrium. The load cells on the risers are measuring the lift of each of the half wing, if they are trimmed the same and no brake input, the load will be the same.
Thank you for the great video!
You should be able to measure the torque with the scales if you maintain straight flight with brake or weight shift.
Turn measurement accuracy would be better if you took full 360 degrees.
What I get from this video: While sitting straight, make sure glider flies straight without power. Add power, if glider turns, then it's all due to the motor torque.
Wonderful testing! Great work. Now in retrospect it does make sense that the load on the risers would reach equilibrium once the turn was induced.
You can still measure engine torque by using a load cell between the engine and the frame. However, it may be a challenge to dampen the intense vibrations enough for the loadcell to be effective. Perhaps a sub-frame between the rubber mounts and the frame? Subframe is two planes with a "lazy susan" bearing between. Single load cell mounted in the center between the plates.
I would expect the loadcell to generally show the same curve in the data, but it would be considerably more precise than timing how long it takes to turn a glider. Unfortunately it wouldn't tell you if you've fully negated the torque with compensation.
Perhaps an even simpler way to measure torque effects would be an IMU to measure the tilt offset?
in situ testing is always super informative, thanks for putting in the work!
I’m going to guess that at level flight around 5000-5500rpm with the 132cm Scout prop the torque compensation will be 95-100% effective. I think as the power increases the torque effect will start to slightly outweigh what the Scout can compensate until full power where the the compensation will be around 70% effective. I believe that different prop sizes may effect the compensation also. The reason I think the compensation is less effective at full power is because of the pitch change that occurs when adding full power that creates a gyroscopic effect that unfortunately can’t be countered unless you have counter rotating props. This is also why I believe it is easier to do a steep right turn. The gyroscopic effect of the prop through a pitching moment favours the right.
If you put in exactly enough weight shift to counteract the torque and maintain straight/level flight under power, you would be able to measure the torque in flight. The risers would be loaded unevenly without the interference of gravity in the x-axis.
Excellent video, Miro. Great work!
Just came to this video. You do incredible job! I think you could measure your banking angle (by fixed camera and the horizon) and get the torque values out of there.
I find your videos hugely interesting. In measuring in-flight torque what if you used the ROLL angle with reference to the horizon? Would this not be proportional to the torque being applied? A simple drone body with camera that has artificial horizon in the display telemetry would provide you with the ability to record real time data including pitch, yaw and climb rate.
I guess 70%. Love the informational videos.
Great video as usual, I learned quite a lot. Have you considered a gyroscope on the pilot, on the vertical axis, in order to measure torque induced yaw?
I’m guessing 80% effective, looking forward to the next test!
Very informative, good test & result. Hope you'll do test for the twist as well in the future.
the sys in equilibrium=the values are the same regardless of ur directionof flight.try to measure the angle of inclintion in plan of rotation & calculate the values.thanks ,
Can you also measure the g-force at the same time please im curious to know how much torque it takes to increase the g's
I’d take a guess of 20%. I would assume weight shift does most of the torque compensation. Look forward to seeing the results 👍
You have to do 360 degrees time, to compensate for the wind helping your turn
When you are in the air, there’s no such thing as wind
@@glydrfreak I know, but in reference to the ground there is
The advance ratio of the propeller will affect the relationship between revolution rate and torque.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_ratio
Your analysis of the effect of angle of bank on the distribution of forces in the risers is correct. If you had measured the angle of bank, you could calculate the forces and therefore the torque. Redo the flights with an inclinometer.
If you have fix arms on your frame (like flattop) probablly the weight on both arms will be different, im I wrong?
The bars did not move at all. I was sitting straight. Flattop would behave the same if it had symmetrical bars. I assume it has an offset. I have never flown a flattop but I have flown the walkerjet that the flattop is a copy of.
Is that a Logitech MX Vertical mouse?
it says MX vertical on the bottom.
great Job, I think it not will be proportional, low RPM will be less effective than High RPM, if we are going to talk about numbers, maybe, low RPM 60%, High RPM 90%
Vou ter que aprender ingles
91%
im an idiot and should look closer before opening my big mouth, lesson learned, oops
if you wanna have some fun throw a scout on a bgd seed and go for a rip.