I've never considered myself as an abnormal person in a normal environment but rather a normal person trying to cope with an extremely abnormal environment.
"Terror and humiliation"... yup, that was my childhood alright. Then repeated with every 'romantic' relationship. You spend your whole life trying to please people who hate you, while they use you.
I thought I had escaped my narc dad and this toxic family. But now I am married to a narc. It is incredibly frustrating. I even seem to attract narcissistic "friends" and then the self doubt kicks in. What is real and what do I deserve? I think I don't even know what fair treatment is...
Sadly, I watched my own kids behave this way, right up through high school, and before they moved out of the home. The oldest became a people pleaser, as that was what I was already modeling based on my own upbringing, and my efforts to try and please my spouse by my own 'cooperative' and fawning behavior. Our youngest, due to monetary situations, ended up living at home with my ex even into her 20's, still remained in her room 85 % of the time and avoided interacting w/ her dad as much as possible. She does not like him, even though she has finally moved out on her own. Our middle one, he seems to have estranged himself from the entire lot of us, except in a holiday or a family birthday. And even then, he remains a bit aloof, an observer, appears slightly uncomfortable, and leaves earlier than anyone else. At times, I feel as if I as their mom helped to create this. I was trying to be a good parent, even while their dad cheated repeatedly in me. Even while our church insisted I was at fault for his behavior, needed to "be a better more 'godly' wife". Even while they, as teenagers, became quite aware of their parents' dysfunctional relationship. I finally divorced him, and while the kids mostly prefer to avoid the subject they all know why I finally left. Left him, left the church, and have been working to reclaim my own personhood, my truer self. Healing, not only the marital wounds, but wounds inflicted upon me as a child-- which ultimately caused me to choose broken and abusive partners. I know my intelligent kids see and recognize all of this. But I still see occasionally their own behaviors in life and relationships mirroring what their father and I unintentionally modeled for them or pushed in them with our misguided parenting. I hope they can heal. And I don't care if they develop a healthy relationship with their dad as adults. In fact, that would be great. But due to who he is, and his own unhealed trauma, which he refuses to acknowledge and insists he needs no 'help' with ( he thinks therapy is a joke, This was plain to see when we went to so many couples counseling sessions) due to his own condition and narcissistic behavior, I can't see that being possible, at least not in a healthy manner. As for me, I've become quite indifferent to him now, 3 years out from the divorce. I don't hate him, though at times I'm still a bit angry with him. But really, I could care less what happens to him from here on out. I allowed him to steal 36 years of who I COULD have been, what I could have been. I allowed him to take advantage of me over and over in so many ways. I allowed bein to run our family like a totalitarian boss (and there were actually times when he said out loud to all of us "This is not a democracy, I am the head of the household, you'll do as I say"). So sad to look back at what I allowed him to do to our beautiful family, to our kids, to myself. But I am free now, and I am my own person. It's been a challenge, but I am so happy I ended it. I can only hope my children see an example of how to fully love themselves and to be aware of patterns and red flags and healthy behaviors vs. unhealthy. Yes, I'm indifferent to him, and he still angers me for a minute now and then, but that's fading. All I can say is, I hope he either seeks healing from his own deep childhood issues that brought him to this point, or I hope karma meets up with him and dishes up to him 3x what he has done to so many others, not just us, but even outside our family. He deserves both possibilities.
I never felt like myself my entire life until I started doing the work. I would always look at the stars and feel like I don't belong here. I ran away from home at age 14 because of the narcissistic abuse. Only after awakening to the truth did I feel like myself and did I become comfortable in my skin and in myself. Thank you Dr Jay!
I tried to leave 'home' at 15, had a live-in job lined up on a farm thousands of miles away. My parents wouldn't let me go. My life would have been so different. I didn't know what was going on, just that I wanted to go. I was 55 years old before I found out that I wasn't 'bad'. Still working on belonging in the world though :)
Great topic and video. Hearing the words, "I can disown you at anytime" messed me up more than I can describe. I realize now (in my 60's) that my Father was an emotionally abusive narcissist. It's taken me years to trust and heal. I was an actress most of my life, a people pleaser, and now I'm not....Yahoo!!
I can absolutely relate. My mother was the same. “I can disown you at any time” is something other people from a more secure upbringing really don’t understand
As we are doing Heavy Manual Labor very Young (Brick work, Metal work, diggin Post holes, tending to Agriculture Neccessities ect) *in Eastern Carolina Humidity Getting Tired Hungry and Frustrated... Our Father Would Say: "What do You Think I Even Had Kids for!?! I Brought You Into this World, I can Take You Out, AND yo MaMa & I Can Spit Out Another one that Looks Just Like You!" Sigh* Much Compassion to Anyone Who Lived Thru Such Dehumanization. And Please Know for a* FACT that They ARE LIARS!😋
Same, similar anyway. I've always enjoyed acting, since I was a child. Now I know why I am so good at it. Between my upbringing, my long marriage to another traumatized soul turned narc, and working in retail for nearly 40 years, I honed that skill. I'm breaking free of it now, but it still comes in handy at work. So now I only allow myself to use it at work. People around me are quite surprised to see me suddenly being a different person away from work! And I love it. It means I'm finally finding my true self. And protecting her. 😎✌🏻
This is EXACTLY THE TRUTH. I would go to my bedroom at 4pm everyday & not come out because my dad came home at 4:15. I called my parents out as being narcissists at age 51. My father was a violent man because I did Grey rock starting at age 5. I was alienated from the entire family. I have lived in the woods in my camper with my pets for 5 years.
@@fairygurl9269 thanks! I am not just sitting here though. I am in the process of buying land to form a ranch to rescue horses going to slaughter. All non- narcissists welcome!
@@iPostiPodiEatiYuri I would have been ostracized if I would have but I wish I had the brains to figure it out then. I just did everything they told me to until age 50. Then, I started to google their behaviors & learned from UA-cam what was going on. Are you happier now?
I agree, my family survived concentration camps and because society understood their grief they were allowed to grieve. But no one understands narc abuse, get over it they say. We can leave but the concentration camp mentality stays with us...and people judge us for not snapping out of it. These people are clueless I have difficulty even talking to people that haven't experienced abuse. The lucky people that never experienced abuse seem to be highly judgemental pollyannas and many are narc enablers. All my ex's friends thought he was great and that he had good reasons to humiliate and denigrate me.
My first recollection of my mother's brutal verbal and physical attacks took place when I was four - we'd been in town and I'd asked for something, I don't know what, and as soon as we arrived home she let fly. I now understand how profoundly traumatised I was by her enraged face just millimetres from mine, her red lipsticked bellowing mouth like something from a horror film, a Joker or a Pennywise, spattering me with her spit. (I still cannot bear red lipstick on anyone). "Don't you dare ask me for anything!" etc etc "If you tell anyone about this you'll get put in a children's home and you'll never see Nana and Grandad again" "If you tell Nana and Grandad about this they won't believe you and you'll be in trouble". It's taken too many decades to really see how that one incident (there were countless more until I was 24) deeply taught me that I shouldn't express my wants, needs or preferences (to anyone) and that speaking up about what was happening in the home at her hands would a) provoke further attacks and b) put me in an unimaginable strange place having lost my adored grandparents. She psychologically couldn't cope with the concept of me as separate from her. I honestly think it would've suited her mentally if she'd killed me (she hit me unconscious a couple of times and wasn't bothered at all). Sorry for all of us who've been so injured by people like this who should've been our protectors and teachers. Thanks Jay, you articulate your points so well and I'm finding your videos really helpful.
Wow, I heard threats like that from my mother right up into my teens. I do know and understand her family dynamics and how broken her own family was when she was very young, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.
WoW ! Its been my experience that the only thing that really mattered to family was how we presented ourself to the outside world . But behind the closed doors , there was nasty ness between siblings , bullying left unchecked especially , due to power issues from top down . A power struggle within , with a constant competition for attention from the parents . But the unfairness , the injustice that continued , the bullying that continued without the bullies themselves getting reprimanded , but in fact getting spoiled and believed , that was why I stayed outside as a kid with my new found friends , and avoided my own family full of no rules and anything goes for the favoured children . I became a real sensitized person to any and all kinds of injustices in the world , because of the chaotic family I had to endure . I did not agree that boys got away with the constant verbal abuse , emotional abuse , and physical at times . And I got blamed instead due to them being favourites. The negative reaction I got when trying to change this and pointing it out to a parent kept me in a state of deep anxiety and shock and awe . It did not really matter what I thought or felt or said . It only mattered that I caused it , according to the favorite and hence the parent , not the other way around . I was the truth teller about my being treated unfairly . I knew why I was targeted . I was at the mercy of others lies and gaslighting . I ended up in an abusive relationship where I was physically and verbally abused by my partner for 7 long tears . All my relationships have been with alcoholics , gaslighters ,liars , and cheats . I am happy to say that I am now not really interested in saving the alcoholics , or others who need help . I need to help myself by setting boundaries to people who think I can be a scapegoat in their lives . Not my role anymore . Never was suppose to be in that role to begin with . I claim my power back . My parent was not as outwardly visibly horrid as your s was . She was the extremely sneaky and manipulative type . a chess player in her ability to slander me and make me the target , not her . She I believe learned this growing up in a very toxic family . Her way of coping I guessed . She could never admit it was her creating or saying or doing anything bad or wrong ! A shrink once told her the truth about herself . She could not handle the truth . She left and would not ever believe what he said about her . But she would often bring it up in conversation. She would exclaim in shock every time ! " Can you believe what he said about me ? He said I was an extremely controlling and rigid mother !" Can you believe that ? Me ?!!! Well I Never went back to him again ! " I would laugh every time I heard this come out of her mouth . As a result of her extremes , I paid dearly growing up . In the form of her making me a ward of the court finally in my teens . I was sent away to different family members , one in which an uncle tried to molest me . One in a mental hospital , and a few years in a group home . It would never be her fault ! nope it was mine even as a baby , I did not "bond " with her as a child she said , the eye contact was not there she told me one time . " Oh so now she was saying it was autism or eluding to it .
You hit the nail on the head again Jay. Thank you. I had to drop everything I was doing to greet my covert narc ex when she came home. It was such a burden. The same behavior was not granted to me when I came home. So exhausting. When I heard my dad’s truck pull up, i ran out the back door. I would retreat to my bed every evening to read or daydream. It was the only way to have space for my own mind, my own thinking.
Wow, same here. I always had the same feeling when my spouse would come home from work, once I realized the fawning on his arrival only was feeding the monster within. I used to feel the same way when my mom was coming home from work. It was an awful way to live, for the last nearly 50 years of my life. Finally doing the healing and becoming me again, at the age of 60.
Thank you, Jay, for making so clear my family dynamics. By 4 or 5, I realized my N mother was crazy. But I couldn't believe it was really so, and that nobody else was aware of what was totally obvious to me. Lacking any confidence, I jollied the family along until they paid for college, which they wanted only as a way of enhancing their own self image. But I totally broke with them about 55 years ago, and from then on my life got better. I wish I'd had the courage to break from them at age 14, but I spent time considering how exactly I'd support myself, and waiting until I had the means of supporting myself. Jay's explanations answered many questions, and for the first time I found I'm not alone.
Oh yes, alien ruled by daddy dictator here, and yes, when he got home from work we all had to be there and act happy. Gaining distance, the key. I tried by moving to another state asap at 20yrs old. It was difficult, but I had to do it. I still visited on big holidays. Later as a grown single parent, still trying to satisfy the dictator, I moved back to the state and tried to pretend things had changed. Only they had gotten much worse in my 10 year absence, and I was eventually forced to go No Contact with the entire bunch. Another great video Jay, thank you. Stay strong folks.
Your work is very consistent with the work of a guy named Harris Harrington. He has a program about depersonalization disorder, which is a disorder that is developed by super sensitive, IN type (introverted intuitive) children of narcissists. Edit: WOW and you mention DP. You really really know your profession, Jay. Suffering from DP since 2010.
It is empowering to hear that things like depersonalization, etc., should be thought of as coping mechanisms that are used to survive the abuse rather than defects in the abused.
The greeting thing is so spot on! It describes my parents to a T. They weaponize greetings. If you greet them, they take it as permission to abuse you. If you don't greet them, it's a big problem.
We were Required to Say Yes *Maam or Sir !! Especially whilst Being DeHumanized.... If we Left Off The Respect Part We would Be Punished then asked..."Yes what..."to which we were to say" Yes Maam! "Without any hint or Hostility or Sarcasm...or it would be even worse.... *sigh.....
I totally forgot about this. I remember now hating the impossibility and the pressure of this ridiculous situation in which I am expected to rush to the door and be standing there and pretend to be happy to see this man, just to be dismissed, ignored, or yelled at. And if I stayed in my room to avoid the abuse and humiliation I was yelled at from across the house to rush over and be yelled at some more for some made up charge.
Yes, it’s revolting, I found myself wanting my kids to greet him in a specific way. I held back and let it play out. It all stops here, no contact. I was put on this earth to live my truth.
Dr. Reid, you are profoundly accurate in your description of the terror that can held over ones head like a guillotine, for years. I suffered a severe concussion when I was nine that left me with disabling problems with my equilibrium for 37 years. My father believed I chose to act out a disability I never had, and he made me pay for that, and early liturgical transgressions. So he decided to torture me with the real threat of being thrown onto the street if I tried to go to college. This and other parental heresies were repeatedly hurled at me until he mercifully left this existence when his aorta ruptured completely in his lungs. My mother who was married to this assassin for fifty years begged not to be buried beside him, and she wasn't. I am finally free of PTSD and problems with my equilibrium at age 67, "Free at last," as MLK said. You are very good Dr. Reid, very good indeed.
I created a secret hiding place in my closet behind the clothes dresser. Maybe 2 square feet at most ;-) Got an extension cord and plugged in a lamp back there along with all the snacks I could sneak away with. As a little girl who loved nature, on Saturdays and Sundays when it was raining or during the wintertime, it was cosy to hide in there reading books for entire days at a time! Quiet as a mouse and nobody ever intruded on me there but NPD parents would come crashing into my room every couple of hours to demand that I cut the grass, rake the leaves, shovel snow, wash the windows or do whatever manual labor was most pressing if they found me sitting at my desk or on the bed. It was like growing up in a gulag. Interestingly, Daniel Mackler, UA-camr therapist (check his channel out) who wrote the book Breaking From Your Parents, talks about having a hiding place in the closet just like mine! Anybody else?
Thank you for creating this video. It’s incredibly comforting and self assuring to hear someone else understand, acknowledge and say out loud the terror, retaliation, humiliation, psychological subjugation and abuse a child may endure at the hands of a narcissistic parent. Thank you for your videos. They are greatly appreciated.
Im 68 and I remember growing up watching Johnny Carson , and when I first watched the comedian Rodney Dangerfield I never related to someone so well and found him very funny too . Later on I saw an interview where he really did live a horrific childhood . I always used humor too , to get a laugh was at least acceptance
Yes integration for me came with a safe enough relationship as in a fellow traveler in a 12 step group that talks about the inner child. This safe enough fellow traveler was able to be a safe person for me relationally. After narcisistic abuse i was very critical and judgemental of myself and didnt have assertivity , I allowed people to be abusive of me because as this channel talks about, I was the scapegoat, growing up and, I retired that role now with dignity. The fellow traveler started encouraging a more self compassionate discourse or self-talk on myself. When i would say stuff like im in "self-pity" he would offer a more reparenting, voice like, no your allowed to feel this way, ofcourse its difficult given the situation you grew up in, it was a couple of sessions I was over the time working with this guy as a fellow traveler over months, and at times i would stop but slowly a more reparenting voice came into my head. Also having to reawaken my self-protective instinct. My instinct of healthy boundaries. This guy also coached me with that , because its obviously part of recovery from trauma, and gave me resources. I had situation in my job it was very toxic and i was already ready to start speaking up back at toxic or abusive people because i felt the internal discomfort. I was doing that more, and also sharing a lot my frustration with fellow travelers etc, how annoyed i was about it, the toxic shit going on at work. One day I had enough and i told my ride to pull over, cause he was being emotionally abusive and putting me down infront of others. He didnt and i arrived at the job site. I saw it was going to be another day of toxicity , and passive agressiveness and some contempt by some of my coworkers in construction. The system was actually quite narcisistic that job system. I mentioned i needed a break to make a call or something cause my head hurt. I was actually annoyed of it all. After not getting a cab or anything and needing to get out before these narc coworkers would start questioning my feeling of annoyance by their toxic behaviours and put downs. I decided to walk out of the job site and walk down the highway 5 miles. I felt agency, autonomy , and internal joy and integration, an empowering internal moment where i decided and made the realization that self love, in the way of not allowing abuse or manipulation, in communicating and settting healthy boundaries , was more important, than the selfabandoning i had to do to survive a narcisistic family system and specially, 2 years i lived alone with the narcisitic parent, where my dignity , worth, value , was targetted artificially must i highlight. The integration of the selfcompassionate part, with the awakening of the self-protective instinct, allowed my inner child a big part of my authentic trueself, to emerge , as I could love and protect him now, and choose safe relationships where my authentic self is welcome and communicate and set healthy boundaries for myself, to see which ones those are. I know God has been helping me all along in this healing journey, for that im thankful. Our journeys , have value to others. When we share we help others keep externalizing the family lies, stay true to ourselves, stay in our dignity, selfcompassion,self-protection and authentic expression and keep healing in this non linear journey!🙏
When I reading Orwell's '1984', I became nauseated and had to put it aside for a while. The sick feeling reminded me of my narc mother's non-stop droning on about all sorts of disgusting and disturbing things I wish she'd keep to herself. The constant assault on my sanity was tortuous.
Timely, spot on..Thank you for your work- hits home. It feels like "thawing out" from the long term freeze. I feel parts of myself self returning- like waking from a bad dream. Being completely alone- gives me the safety to experiment, and go the the process without criticism. Also, experimenting with relating to people who don't know my history- and, seeing how kind and pleasant they communicate. It validates my value as it relates to my truest perception of me.
Yes 💞Heres Wishing You Much Joy as You Explore how "Totally" Awesome you Are. And Even When its Less than Comfortable to Peel out Another Layer You Still will Have a Sense of Peace & You will Trust the Process Leads to Even More Harmonious-ness❣✌😊
At 3 years old being told repeatedly, "You better get down off your high horse missy and change that attitude!" No clue where this horse was and what is an attitude and how can a 3 year old even have a clue what was going on or why she was so angry at me. Repeat for years. Always in trouble, no clue why I was broken or how to fix me. Of course I married into the same situation more than once. "Expected Norm" - understood that I would never meet the invisible bar. After she died I was so relieved, only to find the same situation with my siblings. Cut off from them now and finding my own value.
It seemed in my family of origin that the more the Narc behaviour was fed the more it grew. . I also noticed this in my marriage with my covert N husband . I had to grow a really nasty side to be able to cope - probably many do . My parents seemed to think I owed them a lifetime of subjugation - taking orders , remaining the scapegoat , handing them money , insults etc etc . Yes gaining distance was the only way to be able to approach living my life clear of them and their egotistical needs . The physical distance only remained 12 miles so it was necessary for them to slag me even more to keep their abusive secrets secure in the community . I think I'm a loner by nature but by necessity also . I often wished I had moved across country when I was young and unencumbered - I really believe that I would be a different and better version of me if I had . Very insightful discussion of this topic Jay .
Same here! I am the scapegoat, born into a narcissistic family system that I am supposed to serve them for the rest of their lives. I finally had enough and went no contact. My mental and physical health is much more important to me than any dysfunctional relationship with family.
I spent my whole life trying to untangle all the mess, untangling knots and it never ended until one day I saw this big tap root inside of me. I thought it was there to nourish me, but I saw that it was taking my life. I had to cut it off like a tentacle and kill it. I knew that it represented my family and since then I have stopped untangling the knot and been presented with a an ongoing movie of how things REALLY were and how it was never going to be resolved. Finding the right reasons to let go was crucial.
yes, I was always aware that I had to put up and shut up but then they pushed me too far, I had therapy and now I can't submit to their narratives that they're perfect and I'm mad, what they want from me is that I RESPECT THEIR RIGHT TO LABEL ME MAD. I can't go along with this so I we are estranged, which they blame me for, but i'm getting stronger. To survive being shunned by your own family and to know that although it's not what yuo'd have chosen, you're still OK, it's a grounding experience.
That long-term depersonalization can turn into disassociation. I have lived with this for so long. Yoga brought me home in many ways when even meditation became difficult. Also, hypnotherapy has helped as well. But, I STILL feel so alone and alienated in so many ways/settings. Looking forward to practicing more self possession, but the terror returns at times especially when certain outward circumstances echo the original system.
Ya I like isolation too Jay. I get to enjoy being myself and being with myself as a good enough person. Online parasocial interactions are pretty awesome, too. The inherent profusion and diffusion of the interwebs allows us to "go on 10 dates, make 10 cold calls, go on 10 auditions, look at 10 houses, research 10 companies, etc" without those entities ever talking to each other about us; and our isolation affords us the luxury of not having to debrief each encounter with a toxic individual (or a quorum thereof) and 1. Explain why the results don't spell impending doom, and 2. Pitch why it's worth going out there again and giving it another shot.
this is exactly what im going through... my whole life ive been forced to fend for myself and be "fiercely independent" because my 'caretaker' would do things that were so wildly against my well being and keeping me safe. i had to be the one 'responsible for the household' and often in direct opposition to the constant chaos generated by the narcissistically styled person. i would pray that they would over sleep and not be up in the morning screaming at us every day as we tried to go to school so i could just handle things and not have my nerves fried as happened every morning because of the constant drama creation and abusive situations. i had to completely disown this soft part of myself who really wants someone else to take the lead, the need to feel safe and protected, the need to depend on someone else. now i want more than anything to have someone to depend on and have to guard me in that way that ive had to do unfairly for myself and others so long
I did the same thing in the morning and also in the evening. Except I had classes on different times every day and the days I knew I had to be up early enough to meet my father before he went to work - I didn't want to live at all. Sometimes I wouldn't eat breakfast because he would always sit in the kitchen the whole morning. Sometimes I would wait for a brief moment when he was in the toilet or just doing something in his room to grab a piece of bread or some water. Or sometimes I would just wait for him to leave, and then speed run everything I wanted/needed to do that was outside my room. And the mornings when he wasn't there were so peacefull. Although looking at it now I was never able to actually relax, it always felt heavy on my chest and generally in the body. And then 3pm rolls around - I would not come out of my room accept toilet or out of the house completely. But with the need to depend on someone I would be careful. careI understand the need to just relax with someone, to not have to be on gard all the time. It is exhausting. But just be carefully so you don't put yourself in another abusive situation or something. Codependency can be harsh. Take care
I wish it was more common for other people to do their inner work too because it feels like another way to be alienated from others. People who didn’t quite have it so rough don’t bother to get to know themselves like this. And some expectations just don’t seem possible to be met in relationships with the people I meet where I live. I do have some skills I enjoy if I just stick with I can do well and live happily and really that’s probably all I want but I guess it’s also a good thing I’m starting to have enough space and sense of safety to even feel loneliness rather than preferring to be alone. Healing is worth it when I consider the torment I’m leaving behind. It’s crazy actually to have made it to the big boss and have already cut its two heads off, if this was a video game. I’m practically walking through the end credits able to enjoy and work on all my dreams I have slowly stashed away all the tools within and without to now just enjoy, even whilst there are some obstacles still, they’re no hassle with the weight of the world falling off my shoulders now. Very thought provoking video, once again, thank you 🙌
My N ex was absolutely aware of the manipulations he used on us. He was proud that he could destroy everyone's day with well timed rage and lies. I think most narcissists are absolutely aware that they are cruel and it gives them "joy" to see others freeze, fawn, get reactive or crumble. Once I was pushed to fight back things went from bad to abysmal. An adult can't win with a narcissist, children have no chance to even fight back without terrible consequences. Courts don't care about narc abuse. They turn a blind eye as long as no one ended up in the ER.
This just inspired many pages of journaling. Your videos help me so much. Does anyone know if there's a way for survivors to find therapists that understand these situations? I've had sooo many bad therapy experiences.
It’s hard to find a therapist who gets it. Jay does phone consultations and online support groups. He obviously gets it. Check him out. If you’re looking for in person, then look for someone who specializes in childhood trauma. They might not get narcissistic abuse specifically but a therapist who is trauma informed can be very helpful. I found a trauma informed therapist who had 30 years of experience but was skeptical about narcissistic abuse. We worked together for 2 years. She really helped me understand my childhood experience. By the end of our work together she came around to the narcissistic abuse dynamic as being a family systems issue. It was frustrating that I had to educate her in some ways but the overall experience was healing for me. I hope you find the support you want, need and deserve. ❤️❤️❤️
Heres encouraging Ya not to Quit, trying is better than Not, and you Will Find the Right one and they too are always on a continuous Learning Journey Themselves Not Every Doc will treat you like a specimen I Pinky Promise its Sooo worth it!!!
I have a trauma therapist but she's not educated about this. In the beginning she said she knows what a narc is but in actuality she's got a faint clue about the dynamics. She doesn't really get it. But she's alright otherwise. The problem with educated people ts that they believe they are educated enough. They got the paper anyhow.
For real.. this is a great question. When I was in a love bombing phase with my narcissistic mother, the therapist said, “maybe your mother has changed and you should give her a chance.” After everything I told her...
@@Jane-mb8jj your therapist is gaslighting you. If they can say that they don't understand narcissists. I got terrible advice from therapist about "communication problems " and using "I feel " statements. Lol nothing works with narcs except zero or limited contact.
Thank You 🙏 So Much!!! The absolute PRECISION of my personal RECOGNITION of your describing the situation of being "exiled" ...and the "profound alienation" & as a result, having experienced depersonalization as a coping strategy ❤️ it was kinda like being the only witness of Dr. Jekyll’s transformation, and then trying to figure out how to survive through the madness of that knowledge without being ‘found out’ by Mr.Hyde (not sure how much sense that analogy makes, but i just thought of it rn) 😉👌
My bedroom was where the craziness dropped away and things made sense for a time. But every time I left my bedroom, chaos reigned. It was as if the clouds and confusing fog cleared away and things got suddenly clear when I was in my room alone. I could see the insanity for what it was.
Yes, this is my story. And I have reintegrated the parts of my self and developed the one that has dignity, authonomy, authenticity and freedom, the forbiden one.
I was exiled from my family at the time it was very painful but also looking back it helped me because I never trusted them as much again and the obligation to be loyal was less. Helped me to think more critically even though at the time the shame and guilt was overwhelming. Took me until I was 50 for my eyes to open.
Jay, Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I've immersed myself in counseling and hundreds of videos to help me understand and recover from narcistic abuse, and change my ingrained patterns so I can live a healthier life. Your information is exceptional and incredibly helpful to me at this point in my journey. I can't thank you enough!!!
It's uncanny how alike your information is to what many adopted people speak of. Original parents struggle with such issues too but most adopted people know only the pseudo-reality etc regardless of how loving or not the adopters are. The 7 life-long affects/issues often spoken of re the parties in a disoption and adoption scenario is littered with content like what you just described. Very thought provoking.
Wow, this is very accurate. And the greating ritual you talked about! Yes, that's exactly how it was in my family. Still is, but now only my mother (enabler) reacts to that stuff and tries to actively keep the status quo. My siblings and I don't care anymore. We only react when approached, when it is necessary to survive. And it all started with me - the oldest, and of course the scapegoat. In the opinion of my parents everything that is wrong with this family is my fault, and also that I "destroyed" my siblings. Because I actually supported them as much as I could and I showed them the truth and that they don't have to be like our parents. I basically raised my brother, and now that they realised we don't cooperate anymore - they are trying to isolate my little sister from us, especially me. Because "maybe at least she will turn out normal" - they say. But we know she will not, at least not according to their standards. She has similar coping patterns I did and she understands a lot of what is going on. Probably more than me at her age. So I have high hopes. I'm moving out soon, my brother will follow soon. Thanks for the possibility to share with people who get it. The best to all of you :)
Thank you thank you thank you for pointing out the sometimes value of isolation! People generally do NOT GET that, but I do as I suspect many people who have listened to this video do.
A big part of my childhood was spent trying to blend in with all the Christians who surrounded me (literally everyone I knew). I didn’t share their beliefs at all and felt a lot of it was silly and nonsensical but I spent 13 years in a Christian school and spent hours ever week in church. I wasn’t able to object or have any kind of dissenting opinion without being subjected to ridicule and abuse. So I guess I was expected to just pretend to be a Christian for the first 18 years of my life. It’s pretty absurd when I think about it now. I was able to be myself only when I was alone. When I moved away from my family, the “Christian pretender” part of myself eventually faded away into nothing, but I’m left with a lot of residual affects. I wonder if there were real aspects of me that got lost when I lost contact with that identity.
This doesn't sound "Christian" to me but like a cult - if you raise a problem then you become the problem. God welcomes and invites His friends to "come reason with Him", to talk with Him and so on. Sadly, toxic religion is rife and amongst the worst type of abuse as it's done in God's name so apparently we're not even good enough for Him, somehow. There's huge amounts of narcissistic abuse "baptised" as "Christianity" these days, yet the Christ said His followers would be known by their love. Love is patient and kind, not proud or stuck up, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, always hopes etc. It sounds like you've already figured this out though ;).
What is going on in the head (the split of self) due to narc abuse, it is pretty much akin to the external relationship between government and people, always in constant, never-ending conflict with each other, always afraid of each other in a realtionship always based on fear.
Good Man, remarkable subject matter. Dispossessing from the relationship from the time of early age, and not the short fling when all the damage was already solidified in effect ! Thanks for sharing these splendid and kind insights. 🙏
I had my outside self. They could do or say what they wanted about that me. I guarded my real self; I only showed her to certain people and then not completely. I saw my mother rage and scream and beat my older brother. He has no inner identity.
Victim of a narcissist can't even feel humiliated, feelings didn't have a chance to develop. It takes some time to get through therapy, create distance and separate form the narcist, and connect with one's feelings, to become a survivor.
Creating distance is absolutely important for the victim and at time must be enforced with raw power, otherwise the abused will likely be killed. There are a lot of examples of narcissistic systems exhibiting that behavior, from dictatorships murdering "others" to lynch mobs murdering black people ... Lynch mobs are an interesting case: They can for example start with simple gossiping, maybe because some white girl found a black guy more attractive then the narcissist, and one person after an others assists the narcissist in the gossiping to the point, that nobody will admit wrongdoing. If the victim of the lynch mob can not flee in time, i.e. create sufficient distance, he will be killed, as history shows.
It does not have to devolve into violence. People gang up and humiliate their victim in public, suffering verbal and emotional abuse from gangs and groups.
Not Wrong and i have Carried that Fear of Stepping too Far out of Line for Too Long...I trust myself more Now to Protect myself Dispite the Outcome, I will no Longer Model compliancy to Abuse....
@@xenatron9056 : Right, it does not have to devolve into violence. But it can and does at times. The weaker systems like the law and social norms are in that respect, the more likely violence becomes. Some people really have fun hurting others and driving them to suicide. They only stop if continuing would made them look bad.
@@Thysta: Fear is not a good solution either. Become sick or some of you enemies get a good hit on you and your family will turn on you. Fear is not a stable source of power. Well, but I can understand that sentiment, though. I have my own personal experience. But for me it was excellence in argumentation and academic performance that gave me power in my family. Until I was betrayed by German professors and bureaucrats. But well, looking into the literal or figurative barrel of a Gun seems to be the only think that can make certain people regulate their behavior. Just get away, preferably while you are young and build a complete independent existence. I failed to do so, the results where not good.
Even when I'm by myself I can't think for myself a lot and I have a lot of English trying to find my psychological distance I'm 34 but I still feel like I don't have my own life yet
I've had depersonalization most of my life but I thought it was normal and I still think it's normal but I didnt like much of my life because of all the narcs in my life and in society.
I litterally felt like a different human in different states... But after Almost 4 Years and Quite a few Setbacks of my Own Fruition..(call them more lessons I was shown I needed to Address in Myself..) For the most part now I feel Much more "Integrated". I also dont Feel I Lost Much as far as the Talents that each of those States Possessed either! I just Changed my Belief Systems Perspective of myself by Gaining Better Understanding of the Why and Working Thru the "Reconstructive Surgery" required to Remove Childhood Shrapnel.. I feel I Recognize & Navigate it All Much smoother Now and Still have Room to improve even more 😊... Whether or Not It was or wasn't DID My life Feels Real and Whole even when Im not exactly comfortable for some Reason or another... I Am so Very Grateful❣✌😊
I would Gray rock and that would mean I would be in my own head no matter what he was saying at the end when the final discard came which I had discarded him anyways it was back-and-forth for a few minutes then I then I would feel like I was in my own head and when I was across the street in my little shed bedroom that I borrowed from his stepmom I could totally be myself I could lock him out and send him packing when I wanted to in the end I had to leave the shed though because he started to attack my property like my vehicle but in that shed I found myself so much During the pandemic I was able to get my education finished I finished missed 9 classes it was hard when I left I felt disassociated from my own self As the gas lighting wore off and he told me about the new girl and I fell apart even though I knew about her but it doesn't matter I am starting to feel like home in my own body again and more peaceful it gets better over time Once you get away from the narcissist. I feel bad for the new girl she is in for such a nightmare a nightmare at the end of the relationship between me and my ex boyfriend his daughter has now no contacted him also. It was the 3rd time in her life he had abandoned her he said he owed her when I 1st met him and then when she came back into his life he pretty much just failed to be in the moment because they can't I have some pictures of him where I see that he is fully disassociating and very uncomfortable in a group setting. I know it wasn't me and that's the best part of my life now.
I've never considered myself as an abnormal person in a normal environment but rather a normal person trying to cope with an extremely abnormal environment.
Yes
"Terror and humiliation"... yup, that was my childhood alright. Then repeated with every 'romantic' relationship. You spend your whole life trying to please people who hate you, while they use you.
Reminds me of a quote I read:
relationship with a narcissist- you give your all to be their nothing.
idem
I thought I had escaped my narc dad and this toxic family. But now I am married to a narc. It is incredibly frustrating. I even seem to attract narcissistic "friends" and then the self doubt kicks in. What is real and what do I deserve? I think I don't even know what fair treatment is...
@@backyardfunwithsimone9213 Im so sorry , and I can relate also
😮😢wow… I’m angry how I was used and abused and my life was taken from me
I stayed in my room to avoid the toxicity of my family. It was my only way to avoid abuse!
i do the exact same thing..
@Reality5870 that happens to me too
@Vicksta take care ♥️♥️
Sadly, I watched my own kids behave this way, right up through high school, and before they moved out of the home. The oldest became a people pleaser, as that was what I was already modeling based on my own upbringing, and my efforts to try and please my spouse by my own 'cooperative' and fawning behavior.
Our youngest, due to monetary situations, ended up living at home with my ex even into her 20's, still remained in her room 85 % of the time and avoided interacting w/ her dad as much as possible. She does not like him, even though she has finally moved out on her own. Our middle one, he seems to have estranged himself from the entire lot of us, except in a holiday or a family birthday. And even then, he remains a bit aloof, an observer, appears slightly uncomfortable, and leaves earlier than anyone else.
At times, I feel as if I as their mom helped to create this. I was trying to be a good parent, even while their dad cheated repeatedly in me. Even while our church insisted I was at fault for his behavior, needed to "be a better more 'godly' wife".
Even while they, as teenagers, became quite aware of their parents' dysfunctional relationship.
I finally divorced him, and while the kids mostly prefer to avoid the subject they all know why I finally left.
Left him, left the church, and have been working to reclaim my own personhood, my truer self. Healing, not only the marital wounds, but wounds inflicted upon me as a child-- which ultimately caused me to choose broken and abusive partners.
I know my intelligent kids see and recognize all of this.
But I still see occasionally their own behaviors in life and relationships mirroring what their father and I unintentionally modeled for them or pushed in them with our misguided parenting.
I hope they can heal. And I don't care if they develop a healthy relationship with their dad as adults. In fact, that would be great.
But due to who he is, and his own unhealed trauma, which he refuses to acknowledge and insists he needs no 'help' with ( he thinks therapy is a joke, This was plain to see when we went to so many couples counseling sessions) due to his own condition and narcissistic behavior, I can't see that being possible, at least not in a healthy manner.
As for me, I've become quite indifferent to him now, 3 years out from the divorce. I don't hate him, though at times I'm still a bit angry with him. But really, I could care less what happens to him from here on out.
I allowed him to steal 36 years of who I COULD have been, what I could have been. I allowed him to take advantage of me over and over in so many ways. I allowed bein to run our family like a totalitarian boss (and there were actually times when he said out loud to all of us "This is not a democracy, I am the head of the household, you'll do as I say"). So sad to look back at what I allowed him to do to our beautiful family, to our kids, to myself.
But I am free now, and I am my own person. It's been a challenge, but I am so happy I ended it. I can only hope my children see an example of how to fully love themselves and to be aware of patterns and red flags and healthy behaviors vs. unhealthy.
Yes, I'm indifferent to him, and he still angers me for a minute now and then, but that's fading. All I can say is, I hope he either seeks healing from his own deep childhood issues that brought him to this point, or I hope karma meets up with him and dishes up to him 3x what he has done to so many others, not just us, but even outside our family.
He deserves both possibilities.
I tried to run away a few times and was mocked for not being successful.
Yes!!! Isolation can serve as a healthy incubation of a more whole hearted SELF!
I never felt like myself my entire life until I started doing the work. I would always look at the stars and feel like I don't belong here. I ran away from home at age 14 because of the narcissistic abuse.
Only after awakening to the truth did I feel like myself and did I become comfortable in my skin and in myself.
Thank you Dr Jay!
*Smiles for You
I tried to leave 'home' at 15, had a live-in job lined up on a farm thousands of miles away. My parents wouldn't let me go. My life would have been so different. I didn't know what was going on, just that I wanted to go. I was 55 years old before I found out that I wasn't 'bad'. Still working on belonging in the world though :)
I can relate.
@@Chahlie same.
Great topic and video. Hearing the words, "I can disown you at anytime" messed me up more than I can describe. I realize now (in my 60's) that my Father was an emotionally abusive narcissist. It's taken me years to trust and heal. I was an actress most of my life, a people pleaser, and now I'm not....Yahoo!!
I can absolutely relate. My mother was the same. “I can disown you at any time” is something other people from a more secure upbringing really don’t understand
I feel like that too .. now I'm trying to be authentic with myself against people pleasing
As we are doing Heavy Manual Labor very Young (Brick work, Metal work, diggin Post holes, tending to Agriculture Neccessities ect) *in Eastern Carolina Humidity Getting Tired Hungry and Frustrated...
Our Father Would Say:
"What do You Think I Even Had Kids for!?!
I Brought You Into this World, I can Take You Out, AND yo MaMa & I Can Spit Out Another one that Looks Just Like You!"
Sigh*
Much Compassion to Anyone Who Lived Thru Such Dehumanization.
And Please Know for a* FACT that They ARE LIARS!😋
Same, similar anyway. I've always enjoyed acting, since I was a child.
Now I know why I am so good at it.
Between my upbringing, my long marriage to another traumatized soul turned narc, and working in retail for nearly 40 years, I honed that skill.
I'm breaking free of it now, but it still comes in handy at work. So now I only allow myself to use it at work.
People around me are quite surprised to see me suddenly being a different person away from work!
And I love it. It means I'm finally finding my true self. And protecting her. 😎✌🏻
This is EXACTLY THE TRUTH. I would go to my bedroom at 4pm everyday & not come out because my dad came home at 4:15. I called my parents out as being narcissists at age 51. My father was a violent man because I did Grey rock starting at age 5. I was alienated from the entire family. I have lived in the woods in my camper with my pets for 5 years.
Smile*
Congrats on Authentic Freedom 💞💃✊😊
@@fairygurl9269 thanks! I am not just sitting here though. I am in the process of buying land to form a ranch to rescue horses going to slaughter. All non- narcissists welcome!
I called out my narc mom age 25
@@iPostiPodiEatiYuri I would have been ostracized if I would have but I wish I had the brains to figure it out then. I just did everything they told me to until age 50. Then, I started to google their behaviors & learned from UA-cam what was going on. Are you happier now?
@@Chasing70 Yeah way happier. At first they gave me hell and tried to starve me but now I have the upper hand
Amazing video… I felt like I wasn’t real for the longest time. Living on my own and going to therapy changed my life.
I t is like living in a nazi concentration camp or as a prisoner of war.....survive by whatever means necessary even abusing our own self
Yes! You are right!
I agree. My father was like Hitler, except he didn't kill us. If one person did something wrong everyone had to pay.
I agree, my family survived concentration camps and because society understood their grief they were allowed to grieve. But no one understands narc abuse, get over it they say. We can leave but the concentration camp mentality stays with us...and people judge us for not snapping out of it. These people are clueless I have difficulty even talking to people that haven't experienced abuse. The lucky people that never experienced abuse seem to be highly judgemental pollyannas and many are narc enablers. All my ex's friends thought he was great and that he had good reasons to humiliate and denigrate me.
@@kitsune7351 Yes ! Truth !
I couldn't have said it better
My first recollection of my mother's brutal verbal and physical attacks took place when I was four - we'd been in town and I'd asked for something, I don't know what, and as soon as we arrived home she let fly. I now understand how profoundly traumatised I was by her enraged face just millimetres from mine, her red lipsticked bellowing mouth like something from a horror film, a Joker or a Pennywise, spattering me with her spit. (I still cannot bear red lipstick on anyone).
"Don't you dare ask me for anything!" etc etc "If you tell anyone about this you'll get put in a children's home and you'll never see Nana and Grandad again" "If you tell Nana and Grandad about this they won't believe you and you'll be in trouble".
It's taken too many decades to really see how that one incident (there were countless more until I was 24) deeply taught me that I shouldn't express my wants, needs or preferences (to anyone) and that speaking up about what was happening in the home at her hands would a) provoke further attacks and b) put me in an unimaginable strange place having lost my adored grandparents.
She psychologically couldn't cope with the concept of me as separate from her. I honestly think it would've suited her mentally if she'd killed me (she hit me unconscious a couple of times and wasn't bothered at all).
Sorry for all of us who've been so injured by people like this who should've been our protectors and teachers.
Thanks Jay, you articulate your points so well and I'm finding your videos really helpful.
Wow, I heard threats like that from my mother right up into my teens. I do know and understand her family dynamics and how broken her own family was when she was very young, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.
WoW ! Its been my experience that the only thing that really mattered to family was how we presented ourself to the outside world . But behind the closed doors , there was nasty ness between siblings , bullying left unchecked especially , due to power issues from top down . A power struggle within , with a constant competition for attention from the parents . But the unfairness , the injustice that continued , the bullying that continued without the bullies themselves getting reprimanded , but in fact getting spoiled and believed , that was why I stayed outside as a kid with my new found friends , and avoided my own family full of no rules and anything goes for the favoured children . I became a real sensitized person to any and all kinds of injustices in the world , because of the chaotic family I had to endure . I did not agree that boys got away with the constant verbal abuse , emotional abuse , and physical at times . And I got blamed instead due to them being favourites. The negative reaction I got when trying to change this and pointing it out to a parent kept me in a state of deep anxiety and shock and awe . It did not really matter what I thought or felt or said . It only mattered that I caused it , according to the favorite and hence the parent , not the other way around . I was the truth teller about my being treated unfairly . I knew why I was targeted . I was at the mercy of others lies and gaslighting . I ended up in an abusive relationship where I was physically and verbally abused by my partner for 7 long tears . All my relationships have been with alcoholics , gaslighters ,liars , and cheats . I am happy to say that I am now not really interested in saving the alcoholics , or others who need help . I need to help myself by setting boundaries to people who think I can be a scapegoat in their lives . Not my role anymore . Never was suppose to be in that role to begin with . I claim my power back . My parent was not as outwardly visibly horrid as your s was . She was the extremely sneaky and manipulative type . a chess player in her ability to slander me and make me the target , not her . She I believe learned this growing up in a very toxic family . Her way of coping I guessed . She could never admit it was her creating or saying or doing anything bad or wrong ! A shrink once told her the truth about herself . She could not handle the truth . She left and would not ever believe what he said about her . But she would often bring it up in conversation. She would exclaim in shock every time ! " Can you believe what he said about me ? He said I was an extremely controlling and rigid mother !" Can you believe that ? Me ?!!! Well I Never went back to him again ! " I would laugh every time I heard this come out of her mouth . As a result of her extremes , I paid dearly growing up . In the form of her making me a ward of the court finally in my teens . I was sent away to different family members , one in which an uncle tried to molest me . One in a mental hospital , and a few years in a group home . It would never be her fault ! nope it was mine even as a baby , I did not "bond " with her as a child she said , the eye contact was not there she told me one time . " Oh so now she was saying it was autism or eluding to it .
My former life exactly.
Now I'm a hiding gray rock safe in my house.
You hit the nail on the head again Jay. Thank you. I had to drop everything I was doing to greet my covert narc ex when she came home. It was such a burden. The same behavior was not granted to me when I came home. So exhausting.
When I heard my dad’s truck pull up, i ran out the back door. I would retreat to my bed every evening to read or daydream. It was the only way to have space for my own mind, my own thinking.
♥️
Wow, same here. I always had the same feeling when my spouse would come home from work, once I realized the fawning on his arrival only was feeding the monster within. I used to feel the same way when my mom was coming home from work. It was an awful way to live, for the last nearly 50 years of my life.
Finally doing the healing and becoming me again, at the age of 60.
Thank you, Jay, for making so clear my family dynamics. By 4 or 5, I realized my N mother was crazy. But I couldn't believe it was really so, and that nobody else was aware of what was totally obvious to me. Lacking any confidence, I jollied the family along until they paid for college, which they wanted only as a way of enhancing their own self image. But I totally broke with them about 55 years ago, and from then on my life got better. I wish I'd had the courage to break from them at age 14, but I spent time considering how exactly I'd support myself, and waiting until I had the means of supporting myself. Jay's explanations answered many questions, and for the first time I found I'm not alone.
Oh yes, alien ruled by daddy dictator here, and yes, when he got home from work we all had to be there and act happy. Gaining distance, the key. I tried by moving to another state asap at 20yrs old. It was difficult, but I had to do it. I still visited on big holidays. Later as a grown single parent, still trying to satisfy the dictator, I moved back to the state and tried to pretend things had changed. Only they had gotten much worse in my 10 year absence, and I was eventually forced to go No Contact with the entire bunch. Another great video Jay, thank you. Stay strong folks.
Your work is very consistent with the work of a guy named Harris Harrington. He has a program about depersonalization disorder, which is a disorder that is developed by super sensitive, IN type (introverted intuitive) children of narcissists. Edit: WOW and you mention DP. You really really know your profession, Jay. Suffering from DP since 2010.
Terror and humiliation - that is how I felt at home as a kid. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
It is empowering to hear that things like depersonalization, etc., should be thought of as coping mechanisms that are used to survive the abuse rather than defects in the abused.
Very in depth explaination. Depersonalization is imposed on the survivor rather than something coming from within.
The greeting thing is so spot on! It describes my parents to a T. They weaponize greetings. If you greet them, they take it as permission to abuse you. If you don't greet them, it's a big problem.
We were Required to Say Yes *Maam or Sir !! Especially whilst Being DeHumanized....
If we Left Off The Respect Part We would Be Punished then asked..."Yes what..."to which we were to say" Yes Maam! "Without any hint or Hostility or Sarcasm...or it would be even worse....
*sigh.....
I totally forgot about this. I remember now hating the impossibility and the pressure of this ridiculous situation in which I am expected to rush to the door and be standing there and pretend to be happy to see this man, just to be dismissed, ignored, or yelled at. And if I stayed in my room to avoid the abuse and humiliation I was yelled at from across the house to rush over and be yelled at some more for some made up charge.
@@JSmillaa damned if you did, dammed if you didn’t
Yes, it’s revolting, I found myself wanting my kids to greet him in a specific way. I held back and let it play out. It all stops here, no contact. I was put on this earth to live my truth.
Dr. Reid, you are profoundly accurate in your description of the terror that can held over ones head like a guillotine, for years. I suffered a severe concussion when I was nine that left me with disabling problems with my equilibrium for 37 years. My father believed I chose to act out a disability I never had, and he made me pay for that, and early liturgical transgressions. So he decided to torture me with the real threat of being thrown onto the street if I tried to go to college. This and other parental heresies were repeatedly hurled at me until he mercifully left this existence when his aorta ruptured completely in his lungs. My mother who was married to this assassin for fifty years begged not to be buried beside him, and she wasn't. I am finally free of PTSD and problems with my equilibrium at age 67, "Free at last," as MLK said. You are very good Dr. Reid, very good indeed.
I created a secret hiding place in my closet behind the clothes dresser. Maybe 2 square feet at most ;-) Got an extension cord and plugged in a lamp back there along with all the snacks I could sneak away with. As a little girl who loved nature, on Saturdays and Sundays when it was raining or during the wintertime, it was cosy to hide in there reading books for entire days at a time! Quiet as a mouse and nobody ever intruded on me there but NPD parents would come crashing into my room every couple of hours to demand that I cut the grass, rake the leaves, shovel snow, wash the windows or do whatever manual labor was most pressing if they found me sitting at my desk or on the bed. It was like growing up in a gulag. Interestingly, Daniel Mackler, UA-camr therapist (check his channel out) who wrote the book Breaking From Your Parents, talks about having a hiding place in the closet just like mine! Anybody else?
Yes.❤
Thank you for creating this video. It’s incredibly comforting and self assuring to hear someone else understand, acknowledge and say out loud the terror, retaliation, humiliation, psychological subjugation and abuse a child may endure at the hands of a narcissistic parent. Thank you for your videos. They are greatly appreciated.
Im 68 and I remember growing up watching Johnny Carson , and when I first watched the comedian Rodney Dangerfield I never related to someone so well and found him very funny too . Later on I saw an interview where he really did live a horrific childhood . I always used humor too , to get a laugh was at least acceptance
Yes integration for me came with a safe enough relationship as in a fellow traveler in a 12 step group that talks about the inner child. This safe enough fellow traveler was able to be a safe person for me relationally. After narcisistic abuse i was very critical and judgemental of myself and didnt have assertivity , I allowed people to be abusive of me because as this channel talks about, I was the scapegoat, growing up and, I retired that role now with dignity. The fellow traveler started encouraging a more self compassionate discourse or self-talk on myself. When i would say stuff like im in "self-pity" he would offer a more reparenting, voice like, no your allowed to feel this way, ofcourse its difficult given the situation you grew up in, it was a couple of sessions I was over the time working with this guy as a fellow traveler over months, and at times i would stop but slowly a more reparenting voice came into my head. Also having to reawaken my self-protective instinct. My instinct of healthy boundaries. This guy also coached me with that , because its obviously part of recovery from trauma, and gave me resources. I had situation in my job it was very toxic and i was already ready to start speaking up back at toxic or abusive people because i felt the internal discomfort. I was doing that more, and also sharing a lot my frustration with fellow travelers etc, how annoyed i was about it, the toxic shit going on at work. One day I had enough and i told my ride to pull over, cause he was being emotionally abusive and putting me down infront of others. He didnt and i arrived at the job site. I saw it was going to be another day of toxicity , and passive agressiveness and some contempt by some of my coworkers in construction. The system was actually quite narcisistic that job system. I mentioned i needed a break to make a call or something cause my head hurt. I was actually annoyed of it all. After not getting a cab or anything and needing to get out before these narc coworkers would start questioning my feeling of annoyance by their toxic behaviours and put downs. I decided to walk out of the job site and walk down the highway 5 miles. I felt agency, autonomy , and internal joy and integration, an empowering internal moment where i decided and made the realization that self love, in the way of not allowing abuse or manipulation, in communicating and settting healthy boundaries , was more important, than the selfabandoning i had to do to survive a narcisistic family system and specially, 2 years i lived alone with the narcisitic parent, where my dignity , worth, value , was targetted artificially must i highlight. The integration of the selfcompassionate part, with the awakening of the self-protective instinct, allowed my inner child a big part of my authentic trueself, to emerge , as I could love and protect him now, and choose safe relationships where my authentic self is welcome and communicate and set healthy boundaries for myself, to see which ones those are. I know God has been helping me all along in this healing journey, for that im thankful. Our journeys , have value to others. When we share we help others keep externalizing the family lies, stay true to ourselves, stay in our dignity, selfcompassion,self-protection and authentic expression and keep healing in this non linear journey!🙏
You just described me to a T. I couldn’t even have this well formed notion of myself without this explanation from you. Thank you so much 😊
When I reading Orwell's '1984', I became nauseated and had to put it aside for a while. The sick feeling reminded me of my narc mother's non-stop droning on about all sorts of disgusting and disturbing things I wish she'd keep to herself. The constant assault on my sanity was tortuous.
Timely, spot on..Thank you for your work- hits home. It feels like "thawing out" from the long term freeze. I feel parts of myself self returning- like waking from a bad dream. Being completely alone- gives me the safety to experiment, and go the the process without criticism. Also, experimenting with relating to people who don't know my history- and, seeing how kind and pleasant they communicate. It validates my value as it relates to my truest perception of me.
Yes 💞Heres Wishing You Much Joy as You Explore how "Totally" Awesome you Are.
And Even When its Less than Comfortable to Peel out Another Layer You Still will Have a Sense of Peace & You will Trust the Process Leads to Even More Harmonious-ness❣✌😊
At 3 years old being told repeatedly, "You better get down off your high horse missy and change that attitude!" No clue where this horse was and what is an attitude and how can a 3 year old even have a clue what was going on or why she was so angry at me. Repeat for years. Always in trouble, no clue why I was broken or how to fix me. Of course I married into the same situation more than once. "Expected Norm" - understood that I would never meet the invisible bar. After she died I was so relieved, only to find the same situation with my siblings. Cut off from them now and finding my own value.
It seemed in my family of origin that the more the Narc behaviour was fed the more it grew. . I also noticed this in my marriage with my covert N husband . I had to grow a really nasty side to be able to cope - probably many do . My parents seemed to think I owed them a lifetime of subjugation - taking orders , remaining the scapegoat , handing them money , insults etc etc . Yes gaining distance was the only way to be able to approach living my life clear of them and their egotistical needs . The physical distance only remained 12 miles so it was necessary for them to slag me even more to keep their abusive secrets secure in the community . I think I'm a loner by nature but by necessity also . I often wished I had moved across country when I was young and unencumbered - I really believe that I would be a different and better version of me if I had . Very insightful discussion of this topic Jay .
Same here! I am the scapegoat, born into a narcissistic family system that I am supposed to serve them for the rest of their lives. I finally had enough and went no contact. My mental and physical health is much more important to me than any dysfunctional relationship with family.
I spent my whole life trying to untangle all the mess, untangling knots and it never ended until one day I saw this big tap root inside of me. I thought it was there to nourish me, but I saw that it was taking my life. I had to cut it off like a tentacle and kill it. I knew that it represented my family and since then I have stopped untangling the knot and been presented with a an ongoing movie of how things REALLY were and how it was never going to be resolved. Finding the right reasons to let go was crucial.
@@xenatron9056 💞✌Well Said
*also my dream Destination is to Visit Lava Lakes such as in Your Icon
👌😊
@@fairygurl9269 Oh, wow, that would be wonderful. I hope you make it there one day. cheers.
@@xenatron9056 oh PS one of my Fave Songs is "No Roots" by Alice Merton
I have a feeling you'll also enjoy it 🤙
yes, I was always aware that I had to put up and shut up but then they pushed me too far, I had therapy and now I can't submit to their narratives that they're perfect and I'm mad, what they want from me is that I RESPECT THEIR RIGHT TO LABEL ME MAD. I can't go along with this so I we are estranged, which they blame me for, but i'm getting stronger. To survive being shunned by your own family and to know that although it's not what yuo'd have chosen, you're still OK, it's a grounding experience.
"want from me is that I RESPECT THEIR RIGHT TO LABEL ME MAD" That's exactly how it goes.
That long-term depersonalization can turn into disassociation. I have lived with this for so long. Yoga brought me home in many ways when even meditation became difficult. Also, hypnotherapy has helped as well. But, I STILL feel so alone and alienated in so many ways/settings. Looking forward to practicing more self possession, but the terror returns at times especially when certain outward circumstances echo the original system.
Ya I like isolation too Jay. I get to enjoy being myself and being with myself as a good enough person.
Online parasocial interactions are pretty awesome, too. The inherent profusion and diffusion of the interwebs allows us to "go on 10 dates, make 10 cold calls, go on 10 auditions, look at 10 houses, research 10 companies, etc" without those entities ever talking to each other about us; and our isolation affords us the luxury of not having to debrief each encounter with a toxic individual (or a quorum thereof) and 1. Explain why the results don't spell impending doom, and 2. Pitch why it's worth going out there again and giving it another shot.
We all have multiple parts to our personality, but just the disorder, because we have no amnesia for when we switch.
Well broken down.
Wow Jay! That's it - EXACTLY 💯 I have done this COUNTLESS times under various circumstances. It can be a life-saver for sure. Like a chameleon. 👍
this is exactly what im going through... my whole life ive been forced to fend for myself and be "fiercely independent" because my 'caretaker' would do things that were so wildly against my well being and keeping me safe. i had to be the one 'responsible for the household' and often in direct opposition to the constant chaos generated by the narcissistically styled person. i would pray that they would over sleep and not be up in the morning screaming at us every day as we tried to go to school so i could just handle things and not have my nerves fried as happened every morning because of the constant drama creation and abusive situations. i had to completely disown this soft part of myself who really wants someone else to take the lead, the need to feel safe and protected, the need to depend on someone else. now i want more than anything to have someone to depend on and have to guard me in that way that ive had to do unfairly for myself and others so long
I did the same thing in the morning and also in the evening. Except I had classes on different times every day and the days I knew I had to be up early enough to meet my father before he went to work - I didn't want to live at all. Sometimes I wouldn't eat breakfast because he would always sit in the kitchen the whole morning. Sometimes I would wait for a brief moment when he was in the toilet or just doing something in his room to grab a piece of bread or some water. Or sometimes I would just wait for him to leave, and then speed run everything I wanted/needed to do that was outside my room. And the mornings when he wasn't there were so peacefull. Although looking at it now I was never able to actually relax, it always felt heavy on my chest and generally in the body. And then 3pm rolls around - I would not come out of my room accept toilet or out of the house completely.
But with the need to depend on someone I would be careful. careI understand the need to just relax with someone, to not have to be on gard all the time. It is exhausting. But just be carefully so you don't put yourself in another abusive situation or something. Codependency can be harsh. Take care
@@artwitch1362 hugs
@@imsunnybaby
And now I know why I always wanted to stay in my room
I wish it was more common for other people to do their inner work too because it feels like another way to be alienated from others. People who didn’t quite have it so rough don’t bother to get to know themselves like this. And some expectations just don’t seem possible to be met in relationships with the people I meet where I live. I do have some skills I enjoy if I just stick with I can do well and live happily and really that’s probably all I want but I guess it’s also a good thing I’m starting to have enough space and sense of safety to even feel loneliness rather than preferring to be alone. Healing is worth it when I consider the torment I’m leaving behind. It’s crazy actually to have made it to the big boss and have already cut its two heads off, if this was a video game. I’m practically walking through the end credits able to enjoy and work on all my dreams I have slowly stashed away all the tools within and without to now just enjoy, even whilst there are some obstacles still, they’re no hassle with the weight of the world falling off my shoulders now. Very thought provoking video, once again, thank you 🙌
I am already too deep in! Let's just finish it once for good
🤗🤗
My N ex was absolutely aware of the manipulations he used on us. He was proud that he could destroy everyone's day with well timed rage and lies.
I think most narcissists are absolutely aware that they are cruel and it gives them "joy" to see others freeze, fawn, get reactive or crumble.
Once I was pushed to fight back things went from bad to abysmal. An adult can't win with a narcissist, children have no chance to even fight back without terrible consequences.
Courts don't care about narc abuse. They turn a blind eye as long as no one ended up in the ER.
This just inspired many pages of journaling. Your videos help me so much. Does anyone know if there's a way for survivors to find therapists that understand these situations? I've had sooo many bad therapy experiences.
It’s hard to find a therapist who gets it. Jay does phone consultations and online support groups. He obviously gets it. Check him out.
If you’re looking for in person, then look for someone who specializes in childhood trauma. They might not get narcissistic abuse specifically but a therapist who is trauma informed can be very helpful.
I found a trauma informed therapist who had 30 years of experience but was skeptical about narcissistic abuse. We worked together for 2 years. She really helped me understand my childhood experience. By the end of our work together she came around to the narcissistic abuse dynamic as being a family systems issue. It was frustrating that I had to educate her in some ways but the overall experience was healing for me.
I hope you find the support you want, need and deserve. ❤️❤️❤️
Heres encouraging Ya not to Quit, trying is better than Not, and you Will Find the Right one and they too are always on a continuous Learning Journey Themselves Not Every Doc will treat you like a specimen I Pinky Promise its Sooo worth it!!!
I have a trauma therapist but she's not educated about this. In the beginning she said she knows what a narc is but in actuality she's got a faint clue about the dynamics. She doesn't really get it. But she's alright otherwise. The problem with educated people ts that they believe they are educated enough. They got the paper anyhow.
For real.. this is a great question. When I was in a love bombing phase with my narcissistic mother, the therapist said, “maybe your mother has changed and you should give her a chance.” After everything I told her...
@@Jane-mb8jj your therapist is gaslighting you. If they can say that they don't understand narcissists. I got terrible advice from therapist about "communication problems " and using "I feel " statements. Lol nothing works with narcs except zero or limited contact.
Thank You 🙏 So Much!!! The absolute PRECISION of my personal RECOGNITION of your describing the situation of being "exiled" ...and the "profound alienation" & as a result, having experienced depersonalization as a coping strategy ❤️ it was kinda like being the only witness of Dr. Jekyll’s transformation, and then trying to figure out how to survive through the madness of that knowledge without being ‘found out’ by Mr.Hyde (not sure how much sense that analogy makes, but i just thought of it rn)
😉👌
My bedroom was where the craziness dropped away and things made sense for a time. But every time I left my bedroom, chaos reigned. It was as if the clouds and confusing fog cleared away and things got suddenly clear when I was in my room alone. I could see the insanity for what it was.
Yes, this is my story. And I have reintegrated the parts of my self and developed the one that has dignity, authonomy, authenticity and freedom, the forbiden one.
I was exiled from my family at the time it was very painful but also looking back it helped me because I never trusted them as much again and the obligation to be loyal was less. Helped me to think more critically even though at the time the shame and guilt was overwhelming. Took me until I was 50 for my eyes to open.
Amazing words of hope and wisdom. I thank you with all of my heart.
Thanks for another great video Jay! This was enlightening, relieving and infuriating all at once. I need a nap.
Jay, Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I've immersed myself in counseling and hundreds of videos to help me understand and recover from narcistic abuse, and change my ingrained patterns so I can live a healthier life. Your information is exceptional and incredibly helpful to me at this point in my journey. I can't thank you enough!!!
It's uncanny how alike your information is to what many adopted people speak of. Original parents struggle with such issues too but most adopted people know only the pseudo-reality etc regardless of how loving or not the adopters are. The 7 life-long affects/issues often spoken of re the parties in a disoption and adoption scenario is littered with content like what you just described. Very thought provoking.
This guy is the only one who truly helps
Wow, this is very accurate. And the greating ritual you talked about! Yes, that's exactly how it was in my family. Still is, but now only my mother (enabler) reacts to that stuff and tries to actively keep the status quo. My siblings and I don't care anymore. We only react when approached, when it is necessary to survive. And it all started with me - the oldest, and of course the scapegoat. In the opinion of my parents everything that is wrong with this family is my fault, and also that I "destroyed" my siblings. Because I actually supported them as much as I could and I showed them the truth and that they don't have to be like our parents. I basically raised my brother, and now that they realised we don't cooperate anymore - they are trying to isolate my little sister from us, especially me. Because "maybe at least she will turn out normal" - they say. But we know she will not, at least not according to their standards. She has similar coping patterns I did and she understands a lot of what is going on. Probably more than me at her age. So I have high hopes. I'm moving out soon, my brother will follow soon.
Thanks for the possibility to share with people who get it. The best to all of you :)
Wow! you've explained this well, the sense of preservation
Your videos have been very helpful. Thank you very much for sparing the time to make them for us
Thank you for understanding and making suggestions ❤️
Thank you thank you thank you for pointing out the sometimes value of isolation! People generally do NOT GET that, but I do as I suspect many people who have listened to this video do.
A big part of my childhood was spent trying to blend in with all the Christians who surrounded me (literally everyone I knew). I didn’t share their beliefs at all and felt a lot of it was silly and nonsensical but I spent 13 years in a Christian school and spent hours ever week in church. I wasn’t able to object or have any kind of dissenting opinion without being subjected to ridicule and abuse. So I guess I was expected to just pretend to be a Christian for the first 18 years of my life. It’s pretty absurd when I think about it now. I was able to be myself only when I was alone. When I moved away from my family, the “Christian pretender” part of myself eventually faded away into nothing, but I’m left with a lot of residual affects. I wonder if there were real aspects of me that got lost when I lost contact with that identity.
Feel you and at the Same time Your Inner 2 year Old Cannot Stand Hypocrisy....so it gits pretty Irrate at you for being a Poser 😒
This doesn't sound "Christian" to me but like a cult - if you raise a problem then you become the problem. God welcomes and invites His friends to "come reason with Him", to talk with Him and so on. Sadly, toxic religion is rife and amongst the worst type of abuse as it's done in God's name so apparently we're not even good enough for Him, somehow. There's huge amounts of narcissistic abuse "baptised" as "Christianity" these days, yet the Christ said His followers would be known by their love. Love is patient and kind, not proud or stuck up, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, always hopes etc. It sounds like you've already figured this out though ;).
What is going on in the head (the split of self) due to narc abuse, it is pretty much akin to the external relationship between government and people, always in constant, never-ending conflict with each other, always afraid of each other in a realtionship always based on fear.
Good Man, remarkable subject matter.
Dispossessing from the relationship from the time of early age, and not the short fling when all the damage was already solidified in effect !
Thanks for sharing these splendid and kind insights. 🙏
Wow. You described the Woke Cult perfectly. It is a perfect fractal of what it's like for siblings growing up under a narcs control.
Thank you for validating my choice for isolation in this specific ordeal even though the work says its bad
You're welcome
I had my outside self. They could do or say what they wanted about that me. I guarded my real self; I only showed her to certain people and then not completely. I saw my mother rage and scream and beat my older brother. He has no inner identity.
Spot on Jay. Been there, lived through that.
It is a wonderful video, great video content.!
I elected to play sports after school to avoid going home to the abuse. I really didn't want to but I was willing to do anything to avoid going home.
Victim of a narcissist can't even feel humiliated, feelings didn't have a chance to develop. It takes some time to get through therapy, create distance and separate form the narcist, and connect with one's feelings, to become a survivor.
Creating distance is absolutely important for the victim and at time must be enforced with raw power, otherwise the abused will likely be killed. There are a lot of examples of narcissistic systems exhibiting that behavior, from dictatorships murdering "others" to lynch mobs murdering black people ...
Lynch mobs are an interesting case: They can for example start with simple gossiping, maybe because some white girl found a black guy more attractive then the narcissist, and one person after an others assists the narcissist in the gossiping to the point, that nobody will admit wrongdoing. If the victim of the lynch mob can not flee in time, i.e. create sufficient distance, he will be killed, as history shows.
It does not have to devolve into violence. People gang up and humiliate their victim in public, suffering verbal and emotional abuse from gangs and groups.
Not Wrong and i have Carried that Fear of Stepping too Far out of Line for Too Long...I trust myself more Now to Protect myself Dispite the Outcome, I will no Longer Model compliancy to Abuse....
@@xenatron9056 : Right, it does not have to devolve into violence. But it can and does at times. The weaker systems like the law and social norms are in that respect, the more likely violence becomes. Some people really have fun hurting others and driving them to suicide. They only stop if continuing would made them look bad.
Dare my family try to do that. I cut them into 2 inch pieces. All of them are terrified of me.
@@Thysta: Fear is not a good solution either. Become sick or some of you enemies get a good hit on you and your family will turn on you. Fear is not a stable source of power. Well, but I can understand that sentiment, though. I have my own personal experience. But for me it was excellence in argumentation and academic performance that gave me power in my family. Until I was betrayed by German professors and bureaucrats. But well, looking into the literal or figurative barrel of a Gun seems to be the only think that can make certain people regulate their behavior.
Just get away, preferably while you are young and build a complete independent existence. I failed to do so, the results where not good.
Thank you
Even when I'm by myself I can't think for myself a lot and I have a lot of English trying to find my psychological distance I'm 34 but I still feel like I don't have my own life yet
Is it the same as structural dissociation?😢😢😢
I've had depersonalization most of my life but I thought it was normal and I still think it's normal but I didnt like much of my life because of all the narcs in my life and in society.
Thank YOU
What about feelings of fear and anger. ? I have depersomalized with my emotions that threatened and angered the narcissist.
In easier terms. If something makes you feel bad about yourself, go away from it.
You don't mention or discuss anxiety on connection with this?
Is this a suggestion of a kind of DID? I'm just wondering how extreme a separation is being suggested?
I litterally felt like a different human in different states...
But after Almost 4 Years and Quite a few Setbacks of my Own Fruition..(call them more lessons I was shown I needed to Address in Myself..)
For the most part now I feel Much more "Integrated".
I also dont Feel I Lost Much as far as the Talents that each of those States Possessed either!
I just Changed my Belief Systems Perspective of myself by Gaining Better Understanding of the Why and Working Thru the "Reconstructive Surgery" required to Remove Childhood Shrapnel..
I feel I Recognize & Navigate it All Much smoother Now and Still have Room to improve even more 😊...
Whether or Not It was or wasn't DID My life Feels Real and Whole even when Im not exactly comfortable for some Reason or another...
I Am so Very Grateful❣✌😊
Bosses and groupthink.
Please can someone point me towards the video where Jay Reid talks about the hopeful self and the wounded self?
I would Gray rock and that would mean I would be in my own head no matter what he was saying at the end when the final discard came which I had discarded him anyways it was back-and-forth for a few minutes then I then I would feel like I was in my own head and when I was across the street in my little shed bedroom that I borrowed from his stepmom I could totally be myself I could lock him out and send him packing when I wanted to in the end I had to leave the shed though because he started to attack my property like my vehicle but in that shed I found myself so much During the pandemic I was able to get my education finished I finished missed 9 classes it was hard when I left I felt disassociated from my own self As the gas lighting wore off and he told me about the new girl and I fell apart even though I knew about her but it doesn't matter
I am starting to feel like home in my own body again and more peaceful it gets better over time Once you get away from the narcissist. I feel bad for the new girl she is in for such a nightmare a nightmare at the end of the relationship between me and my ex boyfriend his daughter has now no contacted him also. It was the 3rd time in her life he had abandoned her he said he owed her when I 1st met him and then when she came back into his life he pretty much just failed to be in the moment because they can't I have some pictures of him where I see that he is fully disassociating and very uncomfortable in a group setting. I know it wasn't me and that's the best part of my life now.
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Me
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