Burr Brown PCM63 - 30 years ago. Still the best R2R chip for classical music. Adcom and BAT made awesome DAC and CD player.. Delta/SIgma pushes the sound stage forward, is very sterile and strips the piano of its natural harmonic richness.
Hey Shrink, man you've been pumping out the content my friend. Appreciate what you do. Took your advice on not getting that Denafrips dac, ended up with the Schiit audio Bifrost 2 dac, sounds pretty damn good man, happy with it. Thanks again brother, rock on!
Hi Shrink! Coming time I hope more often to be part of your livestream......As many times I mentioned in your livestream the Philips TDA 1541 S1 (Single Crown) is responsible for the musical performance in my '90 built dac 'Sugen AU51 DAC'. The very rare, and sought after, variant S2 (Double Crown) is used by one of the world's best sounding dacs, Zanden Model 5000 Mk.IV, $ 40K+, part of 4 boxes solution (dac, transport, 2 powersupplies)...
I once had a DAC / headphone amplifer (NX4) and while sounding good it was atrocious in the long run... especially with the Denon amps. Now I only use gear with 1541/1543 and ex-BurrBrowns - WAY better.
I’ve listened to 10 different DACs including the one in my preamp and CD player. I use the Holo Audio Cyan 2 streaming through my Bluesound Node 130 and it sounds excellent. I had DACs that were more and less expensive working within my $2K US budget. I’m happy. Like reading about others but I’m set for now. Thanks for the video.
I recommend an innuos zen mk3 for your endgame streamer.Its the sweetspot needing to spend double for tiny improvement.I owned it before selling everything for bel canto.Its a piece that stuns you with its effortless weight and realism.No one should overlook what a reference streamer can do.There around 2200 usd on used market.I would own it again if I were to rebuild
@@greatlookinglandscap I will pretend to be an ASR devotee How does the reference streamer as a transport make the bits more better ? It would have to have a better DAC in order to use the analog signal I am content with the Cyan 2 for the moment but the One Bit DACs are making some moves and the wheel keeps spinning
I have an ESS Saber DAC that, while good, can sound hard and sterile. My tried and true surround processor uses multiple Burr Brown old-school 1700-series chips and it sounds absolutely wonderful. However, my nearly three year-old Pontus II discrete R2R ladder DAC and Hermes DDC that's linked to the Pontus II via I²S continues to be the only DAC I can't seem to get enough of. Ironically, but rather fortunately for buyers of the latest Pontus 15th anniversary edition, Denafrips upgraded the Pontus 15th's on-board femto clock chips the latest incarnation of VCXO clocks, making the OCXO clocks in the Hermes somewhat less of a leap in sound quality. I literally run my CD transport, my Wiim Pro streamer and JRiver Media Center PC through the Hermes, which now functions as the digital source selector.
Great video. It is so difficult to keep us with the new DACs which seem to come out every other week. Just some constructive criticism, I think your room could benefit greatly with some sound absorption panels. I had a room with a similar problem and it was a true game changer after I added some panels to the walls and ceiling. Just a note, the panels on the walls are more beneficial than the ones on the ceiling and were much easier to install.
you have to hear music here before suggesting panels.My room is actually very friendly and sounds great.You can view my pro frequency sweep vids of my room.The fact is not everyone needs treatment
From my own experiences the implementation is more important than the choice of DAC chip. I've heard a naim cds using 16 bit DAC chipsets to great effect. I used to own an Arcam that used a hybrid DAC .Subsequently i've found that clock jitter,power supply regulation and the analogue stage all have such a pronounced effect in combination that the chip of choice is effectively dwarfed by those aspects of the design.Not to say there's nothing to the DAC chip at all,more that there's so much more to wringing out the best performance than merely the DAC chip itself.
Good video! You have to admit that all other things being equal, the best NOS (new old stock) DAC chips sound remarkably good. Though some of the best chips are limited to redbook CD and 24/96 sampling rates. It's no surprise that Cambridge Audio gear owes its pleasant digital sound quality to the Burr-Brown DACs Cambridge uses. Some call it cheap but it's difficult to argue with the result.
I partially agree, while the release of insignificant new products to make an easy money grab is awful from an environmental and consumer standpoint, the pursuit of increasingly better dacs through technological/engineering breakthroughs is great. Just like the 1 bit dac released by topping recently. I would not necessarily call that a breakthrough but it’s nice to have a good product below the price of the chord qutest or holo audio cyan 2. I hope one day that kind of performance will cost only 300 euros max.
@@greatlookinglandscap i agree with you, great things cost but so do some mediocre too. just like the first pc was high in cost and extremely less powerful compared to what you can get for the same amount today. It is the general trend of technology which applies to everything related to it. Look at starkrimson amplifiers, look at nilai hypex monoblocks. 500 watt of clean undistorted and very « analog » sound for so much less than 15 years ago.
DACS do very little coloring to the sound, its the implemented analog stage thats doing all that. Last component you wanna find yourself splitting hairs over IMHO. Is the chassis good? Is the power supply good? You got a good DAC!
@greatlookinglandscap Agreed. DAC chip sound quality is entirely at the mercy of the on-board digital clocks and dozens of other variables such as the quality of galvanic isolation and the quality of the digital input section.
I believe that Bel Canto is utilizing the Burr Brown 1792 series chipset. They are very good, time tested and sound wonderful. Their implementation has a lot to do with the overall performance.
Funny you mention Burr Brown. I was talking to another audiophile music lover about how I have Burr Brown DACs in some of my older gear and have been impressed by their sound quality. Yet with the prominence of the ESS and AKM chipsets, Burr Brown feels like it is not getting the proper credit due.
Can't fault your logic Shrink. Look now how the cheaper R2R's are coming. The FIIO K11 R2R for example. This will get a lot of people.. (yes me included). Just for the curiosity and many of us don't feel we can ever afford a Bel Canto. So we linger in this purgatory of CHI-Fi amps and DACs. Now end game for one might be an Orchard for example. Maybe this is what I should strive for. Maybe you can do a endgame tier list Shrink. I dunno.. I know your endgame. But if you were in a different position in life, what would your endgame look like. Always curious for your insight and thanks. Will try to catch you on live soon and getcha a shwarama. Peace.
Will see what I can do.Everyone plays in a different depth of pool.I do because I can safely and without financial worry.I suggest people do the same and dont worry about the so called “ better” as theres always better.I dont worry about it
nope I love redbook overall after all wheres all the dsd content?and its expensive and never guaranteed better as only as good as original shit in shit out🤷
using? hell no and please do not joke about that here.I fidget its my nature.Who really cares if someone itches I mean geez! do have anything to add relating to the content?
Burr Brown PCM63 - 30 years ago. Still the best R2R chip for classical music. Adcom and BAT made awesome DAC and CD player.. Delta/SIgma pushes the sound stage forward, is very sterile and strips the piano of its natural harmonic richness.
yup old and great!
Hey Shrink, man you've been pumping out the content my friend. Appreciate what you do. Took your advice on not getting that Denafrips dac, ended up with the Schiit audio Bifrost 2 dac, sounds pretty damn good man, happy with it. Thanks again brother, rock on!
Oh hi ya lots of thought I want to get out to you all.Thanks so much for the contribution!
Hi Shrink! Coming time I hope more often to be part of your livestream......As many times I mentioned in your livestream the Philips TDA 1541 S1 (Single Crown) is responsible for the musical performance in my '90 built dac 'Sugen AU51 DAC'. The very rare, and sought after, variant S2 (Double Crown) is used by one of the world's best sounding dacs, Zanden Model 5000 Mk.IV, $ 40K+, part of 4 boxes solution (dac, transport, 2 powersupplies)...
you bet it is!And I will be live today at 4pm pacific time
I once had a DAC / headphone amplifer (NX4) and while sounding good it was atrocious in the long run... especially with the Denon amps.
Now I only use gear with 1541/1543 and ex-BurrBrowns - WAY better.
sounds great!
Metrum/Sonnet are just R2R ladder dacs
Like LiAV they just put them in an enclosure
I agree DAC chasing is not a healthy thing as a general matter
hell no.As I say the insanity ends only when you end it and become content
I’ve listened to 10 different DACs including the one in my preamp and CD player. I use the Holo Audio Cyan 2 streaming through my Bluesound Node 130 and it sounds excellent. I had DACs that were more and less expensive working within my $2K US budget. I’m happy. Like reading about others but I’m set for now. Thanks for the video.
I recommend an innuos zen mk3 for your endgame streamer.Its the sweetspot needing to spend double for tiny improvement.I owned it before selling everything for bel canto.Its a piece that stuns you with its effortless weight and realism.No one should overlook what a reference streamer can do.There around 2200 usd on used market.I would own it again if I were to rebuild
I'm thinking a Red and Cyan 2 combo
@@robertfifik5550not endgame brother Bob
@@greatlookinglandscapI’m looking into it. Thanks
@@greatlookinglandscap I will pretend to be an ASR devotee
How does the reference streamer as a transport make the bits more better ?
It would have to have a better DAC in order to use the analog signal
I am content with the Cyan 2 for the moment but the One Bit DACs are making some moves and the wheel keeps spinning
I have an ESS Saber DAC that, while good, can sound hard and sterile. My tried and true surround processor uses multiple Burr Brown old-school 1700-series chips and it sounds absolutely wonderful.
However, my nearly three year-old Pontus II discrete R2R ladder DAC and Hermes DDC that's linked to the Pontus II via I²S continues to be the only DAC I can't seem to get enough of. Ironically, but rather fortunately for buyers of the latest Pontus 15th anniversary edition, Denafrips upgraded the Pontus 15th's on-board femto clock chips the latest incarnation of VCXO clocks, making the OCXO clocks in the Hermes somewhat less of a leap in sound quality. I literally run my CD transport, my Wiim Pro streamer and JRiver Media Center PC through the Hermes, which now functions as the digital source selector.
Thanks for your contribution!
Great video. It is so difficult to keep us with the new DACs which seem to come out every other week. Just some constructive criticism, I think your room could benefit greatly with some sound absorption panels. I had a room with a similar problem and it was a true game changer after I added some panels to the walls and ceiling. Just a note, the panels on the walls are more beneficial than the ones on the ceiling and were much easier to install.
you have to hear music here before suggesting panels.My room is actually very friendly and sounds great.You can view my pro frequency sweep vids of my room.The fact is not everyone needs treatment
You are 100% correct. Nothing new under the sun.
From my own experiences the implementation is more important than the choice of DAC chip. I've heard a naim cds using 16 bit DAC chipsets to great effect. I used to own an Arcam that used a hybrid DAC .Subsequently i've found that clock jitter,power supply regulation and the analogue stage all have such a pronounced effect in combination that the chip of choice is effectively dwarfed by those aspects of the design.Not to say there's nothing to the DAC chip at all,more that there's so much more to wringing out the best performance than merely the DAC chip itself.
implementation absolutely!
Yes such a small part of the equation
Someone stop this guy, he's on fire! video after video.
ya but no one watches 🤣but you do and that is all that matters too me
Good video! You have to admit that all other things being equal, the best NOS (new old stock) DAC chips sound remarkably good. Though some of the best chips are limited to redbook CD and 24/96 sampling rates.
It's no surprise that Cambridge Audio gear owes its pleasant digital sound quality to the Burr-Brown DACs Cambridge uses. Some call it cheap but it's difficult to argue with the result.
absolutely! but stay tuned I have a real treat coming for all!
I partially agree, while the release of insignificant new products to make an easy money grab is awful from an environmental and consumer standpoint, the pursuit of increasingly better dacs through technological/engineering breakthroughs is great. Just like the 1 bit dac released by topping recently. I would not necessarily call that a breakthrough but it’s nice to have a good product below the price of the chord qutest or holo audio cyan 2.
I hope one day that kind of performance will cost only 300 euros max.
I cannot see it.Great things will cost.Mediocre will not.And again too much flavour of the mth making it very confusing for the new fish
@@greatlookinglandscap i agree with you, great things cost but so do some mediocre too. just like the first pc was high in cost and extremely less powerful compared to what you can get for the same amount today. It is the general trend of technology which applies to everything related to it.
Look at starkrimson amplifiers, look at nilai hypex monoblocks. 500 watt of clean undistorted and very « analog » sound for so much less than 15 years ago.
Another "Chip off the Old Block eh" something that sounds more analog is what i like . Rega Dac(wolfson) with a Tube Buffer.
haha so much out there but I find it so interesting that some of the real high end designers use older chips to implement
DACS do very little coloring to the sound, its the implemented analog stage thats doing all that. Last component you wanna find yourself splitting hairs over IMHO. Is the chassis good? Is the power supply good? You got a good DAC!
I do agree but the chip itself definitely influences signature
@greatlookinglandscap Agreed. DAC chip sound quality is entirely at the mercy of the on-board digital clocks and dozens of other variables such as the quality of galvanic isolation and the quality of the digital input section.
I believe that Bel Canto is utilizing the Burr Brown 1792 series chipset. They are very good, time tested and sound wonderful. Their implementation has a lot to do with the overall performance.
as mentioned in my prior Bel canto video.You are correct Burr Brown 1792 baby!
I like the field programmable chips like the PS Audio.
great technology also chord fpga proprietary tech
Funny you mention Burr Brown. I was talking to another audiophile music lover about how I have Burr Brown DACs in some of my older gear and have been impressed by their sound quality. Yet with the prominence of the ESS and AKM chipsets, Burr Brown feels like it is not getting the proper credit due.
well it is by some of best designers for years
I use the ESS Sabre ES9218P Quad DAC (tuned by Meridian
nice.Meridian are one of the digital kings
@@greatlookinglandscap I also have the same chip in my lg v50 cell phone.
Can't fault your logic Shrink. Look now how the cheaper R2R's are coming. The FIIO K11 R2R for example. This will get a lot of people.. (yes me included). Just for the curiosity and many of us don't feel we can ever afford a Bel Canto. So we linger in this purgatory of CHI-Fi amps and DACs. Now end game for one might be an Orchard for example. Maybe this is what I should strive for. Maybe you can do a endgame tier list Shrink. I dunno.. I know your endgame. But if you were in a different position in life, what would your endgame look like. Always curious for your insight and thanks. Will try to catch you on live soon and getcha a shwarama. Peace.
Will see what I can do.Everyone plays in a different depth of pool.I do because I can safely and without financial worry.I suggest people do the same and dont worry about the so called “ better” as theres always better.I dont worry about it
Your right I like the old dac chips
Well yes theres a-lot still being used by the best designers in the world
I’m happy with my DAC chips. No need to experiment. My xDuoo system uses 3 ESS 9038q2m(s).
It's the reality for hi technology... half life is very short !
🤣
1001010001110101101! 🤣
haha😂pretty much eh!
@@greatlookinglandscap 😅 yup
Shrink the Trick is U don't need all those bits and all those high samples rates...
4 Playback
nope I love redbook overall after all wheres all the dsd content?and its expensive and never guaranteed better as only as good as original shit in shit out🤷
nobody buys every other week a new dac.
it is obviously an exaggeration.I guess you do not understand the video
Why you’re itching so much are you still using!?
using? hell no and please do not joke about that here.I fidget its my nature.Who really cares if someone itches I mean geez! do have anything to add relating to the content?
@samidebs3559 You asking asking a question like that makes me think that you might be using. Very misguided question.
@@boho2637 I’ve been sober for years I don’t itches anymore 😂🤙
@@boho2637indeed I do not know why he should get so personal it is disrespectful to assume anything especially this.Its an audio channel
@@greatlookinglandscap look man if you need help I’m here 🤷♂️