Cheeky L85 Brits Bullpup goes from rubbish to ace
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- I have a ton of respect for our mates across the pond, the British Armed forces who use the SA80 or L85 main battle rifle. For the last four decades the UK infantry used a bullpup design.
I know there is a lot of distrust out there within the military weapons community when it comes to the bullpup design compared to conventional firearms. My guess is, a lot of that actually comes directly from British soldiers, not so great experience on the ground with this rifle. I want to get to the bottom of if the incredible amount of hate for this weapon is justified or not. In order to do that we’ll have to get into British Army doctrine with the bullpup rifle.
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Finally someone who sees logic and not bias.
It's incredible how many 'Muricans still think that the British army just kept using the L85A1 after all its failures, like if the US Army still used the M16A1 60 years later
Wouldn’t take any other weapon to battle. Served me well if you take care of it. it will take care of you
Ayyy matsimus here
Even the cadet rifle is amazing, the l98a2 is god like
@@adrianfrift7571 It's literally just the same rifle but without the ability to fire full auto.
“The civil servant” because “it never works and couldn’t be fired”, god I love the army
That cought me off guard 😹
Hey! Not every civil servant works for Dept. of the Army personnel and finance! Geoff Who had the Navy fix his Army pay, never had another pay problem in 9 years.
@@GCJT1949 Geoff you seem to be on every video talking about yourself in the third person.
@@Surv1ve_Thrive It goes back to the Cleveland FreeNet in the 1980s. My fan base expects it. Geoff Who is a retired computer professional.
@@GCJT1949 yeh. Geoff, can you ask Geoff : Do you know anything about the SA80?
I've never seen someone look so happy and proud to learn about tactical chunder
I've only got the "can't be fired" part when reading this comment.
Is the tactical chunder that vomiting without breaking stride?
@@ahel4523 It's to help you keep going on a heavy night out.
Someone teach him about Freckles... I have a mate that disgusted a bunch of Delta lads with the rules of Freckles. 🤣
@@ahel4523 Well my good friend it can be, but then again it can also be over a wall, into a bin, sink plant pot or other bucket like paraphernalia. It's more important that you recognise you've binged & peaked to early or will do and you need to clear out your system, so that you can then binge some more!
"Heres my British mate"
*How his British mate sounds to British people : G'day mate, Help Sheila out me Yute and toss a shrimp on the barbie ya legend
Sat here in britain like whaaaat???
@@jollyrodgergaming3579 he’s saying he sounds Australian, not British
also his american beret
sounds like a kiwi
If he was with the Royal Welsh it would be " oh butt
American: tries to use Imperial measurements to annoy the British
The Brits who use both that and metric on the daily basis: *laughter*
Yes we really are a mixed up lot. 😉
We Brits literally invented imperial measurements, its right there in the name
@@All_Hail_Chael sort of. They developed from the Roman measurements which worked in tens then got changed over centuries until we syandedised them
Remember SI units have been used in Briton since the end of the 1800s. We make a motorway in Km and Te then when it's built we sign it up in miles
You show a soldier with the rifle in left shoulder if he fired it he would smash his teeth out and probably break his jaw it can only be fired from the right shoulder!
@@cantfindmykeys8104 not if the charging handle was. Not connected to the action. 👍
Tactical chunder is where you choose to vomit to enable you to keep on drinking.
This...☝️
Thank heavens someone pointed that out, I cannot imagine that the average American has ever been so committed to drinking that it would be normal to vomit mid session to allow further ingestion of alcohol. Although the comparison between UK ales served warm vs Ice cold lager is worth a technicolour yawn
Chunder is a Strine word (Google Strine!) and is short for "watch under" the phrase used as a warning prior to vomiting.
@@andidubya3840 been drinking I. England for 30 years and still never had a “warm ale” although I must admit I believe it’s the traditional cask ales that are served warmer (around 10c which is cellar temperature)
@@Sarge084 Exactly- it's AUSTRALIAN slang that has been re-exported to Blighty.
"They resorted to picking up ammo from the enemy and using that."
Given that the Argentine Army was using exactly the same rifle as the British (FN FAL), it wasn't much of a problem.
And continues a tradition as old as guns... :)
Both countries used FN FAL, but the British had the semi-only variant.
Full-Auto FALs are not very useful for the average soldier - especially in open terrain like the Falklands. First round on target, 19 rounds somewhere up in the air. Followed by a nose-in rock-back reload - if you still had a full mag available that is...
The L1A1 SLR is a FAL done in imperial measurements, not metric.
It also has other slight differences.
why it was never called a FAL in British service.
FN FAL parts and SLR parts are not all interchangeable.
The brits needed to load the ammo into different magazines. the FAL mags not being compatible.
@@quadg5296 but they still could us the same ammo, pal.
Also remember that back in the day, 7.62x51mm ammunition was issued in ready magazines only for as much as the individual soldier could carry; additional ammo was supplied in 10-rds stripper clips, which is why the FN FAL and the L1A1 SLR both have stripper clip guides.
@@TraTranc The L1A1 does not have stripper clip guides. The stripper clips are used with a speed loader to load the magazines.
Fun fact. British 5.56 screams "U WOT M8" as it's fired down range.
wagwan piftin' wha's your bbm pin innit
@@thewolverine3059 roadman wish they have access to 5.56
nah, that's the flashbang.
@@thewolverine3059 pov ur a taliban and u just hear 6 high pitched WAGWAN coming from troops on the opposite ridgeline
tring to get my amercan guys to use the l86 in videogames is just "imperialism" and usually ends with a Makarov being shoved up my arse
"Fought in Argentina..." - That's a touchy subject. Technically we fought on British soil...
And Argentina claims it was argentina soil, yes XD
But i for my part (Austrian) consider the choice of the people there as the legit answer.
They wanted to stay as part of the Empire.
@@sim.frischh9781reading between the lines on your comment, is that veiled support for *Anschluss* - or do you genuinely believe in self determination?
@@mwnciboo I´m for self determination and the chance for people to choose themself.
They might make subideal decissions, but at least they are THEIR decissions.
And Argentina I'd so close to limey bill.
@@ifyouvote.5005 geographical proximity is irrelevant
"We fought a whole war of independence to be wrong about what we think is right"....finally the first American that understands it
But the British taught us the imperial system.
@Allen Jinu Pints in pubs and miles on road signs say that you're trolling.
Allen Jinu so ur upset that we kept something to remember u by? Well that’s ungrateful. If my kids kept something of mine as a remembrance of our time I’d be happy, not shitting on them about it.
@Allen Jinu what does a system of measurement have to do with money?
@Allen Jinu Same here. Have a cookie.
US Marine Colonel quoted during the Korean War. 'We were happy when we finally moved onto a position on the coast and had the British on our flank: Because we knew they'd both be there in the morning.'
Having used both the A1 and A2 versions I can say they're worlds apart and the rifle which has always been accurate is also now reliable and with the rail system and acog is a great rifle
Not going to overshare with detail, but one of my kids is rated as marksman ....... & rates the newest versions highly.
(Thinks the earlier versions would be better employed as inefficient shovels 'though).
@Nehemiah Scudder Nope.
Correct the A2 was a massive improvement over the A1
You're welcome! Greetings from Germany, home of H&K 😉
Yeah, having used all of the versions... its still heavy as shit and refuses to work unless you spend 10hrs cleaning per round fired.
This man doesn’t know we have a messed up measurement system halfway between imperial and metric
Still better than imperial though lol
Ben O’Neill yeah I prefer meters to feet/yard
The metric system is for countries that don't have a flag on the moon.
Stalking Horse funny how nasa uses/ used metric
And some people still prefer using archaic measurement method like using stones.
Seriously, a bloody stone. Why not using boulder as well then?
Britain didn't fight in Argentina in the 80s. The Falkland islands never have and never will be Argentinian.
Thank you
@Joe Ç sas did conduct missions in argentina, based from chile...
And it was the L1A1 SLR not the FN FAL
WrightyPegz same thing. L1A1 was just a licensed copy of the FAL with no full auto
If I were living in the Falklands I wouldn't want them to be Argentine either.
Stereotypical British soldier: Australian accent
You were so off even an officer would navigate there better
Damn
That's harsh
Yikes
That wasnt even close to Australian. That accent was an american after spending 2 years with Marine Rotation Darwin.
nah thats a new zealander accent useing mate a little too much
Here is a short guide to the L85 rifles as far as I understand them:
L85A1: The prototype that was put into service way too early without enough trials and development time to iron out the bug. Not to be relied on if you have other options.
L85A2: A bug-fixed version of the A1 which remedied most of the weapons deficiencies. Essentially what the A1 should have been - a good, reliable weapon.
L85A3: A modernised version of the A2, essentially a lower budget alternative to replacing the rifle in the short term.
I think the A3 version will probably be the last iteration on this weapon and looking at how other militaries are moving on to more powerful ammunition, there will probably be a search for the next generation of infantry weapon once other NATO member nations agree what the next generation standardised round will be.
If somebody is not already producing drawings of an ambidextrous, floating 550mm barrel, bullpup, in 6.8 and 7.62 then MoD procurement remains as bad as it ever was.
A proper night out isn't complete without one of the boys doing a tactical in a bin.
Talking on the big white telephone...
The tactical chunder is a great strat
Tactical wank is also handily employed in certain different situations
In the US we call that a combat jack.
A tactical wank is basically a make safe unload followed by a reload to ease springs lol 😆
I once mistaken my viagra pills for a sleeping pill all i got was 40 wanks!
‘Handily’…? Smirk :)
Tactical dump on the hoof.!
I've fallen off my seat on the floor laughing. I'm British and that was the worst British accent I've ever heard. If however you crossed an Australian with a South African and squashed his testicles in a vice you are bang on the money. To be fair it's not as bad as Keanu Reeves British accent in Bram Stokers 'Dracula'. 10/10 for comedy though.
Thanks for the suggestion needed a ovie to watch today and hate the degenerate new movies from todays World
What exactly constitutes a "British" accent? There are quite a few on the island. In other words, there's no such thing.
@@smcp5044 Err agreed, but NO ONE of the millions whom live on our merry island soundz like his impersonation, and that’s a fact bruv.
@@smcp5044 Wrong mate. A Brit would be able to distinguish accents from around the four nations easily, however they would ALL be British. Och, what would I know, I've only lived here for 50 years, there's still loads to know. TRY DORIC(Aberdeen). WOW.
@@scottmurray5600 missing the point totally, there is no thing as a single British accent. Like I said, there's quite a few. Well done you've lived on the island 3 years more than me, medal in the post. 🤦🏻♂️
I haven't used the L85A3 but I found the A2 to be nothing but reliable and easy to use. I never once had a stoppage with my weapon and it was very easy to manoeuvre with.
It’s looks quite fiddly to disassemble though, what can you say about that. Especially when you compare it to the disassembly of the AK 74 or M16. Also how does it do when it’s covered in muck?
@@Theballoonwillpoponce you learn the disassemble process it’s easy. The only annoying part is putting the spring into the bolt (coming from a cadet)
@@eggonator3046 I respect the rm so that's fair haha
Yeah that true
I was immediately impressed when you said "tactical chunder". Never heard an American say it.
For Beginners: When a Tactical Chunder is required, first you need to do a Manual Over-Ride (fingers down throat).... Tactical Chunder then happens.....
6:12 The British come up with some of the best acronyms and nicknames. My favorite is their unofficial term for urban warfare: FISH & CHIPS, which stands for "Fighting In Someone's House & Causing Havoc In People's Streets."
(Their official term for urban warfare is FIBUA, which stands for "Fighting In Built-Up Areas.")
@ボイス
..well if you ordered a British takeaway (a joke in itself lol, ) it would most likely have gotten moldey before it got off the container ship, let alone by the time it reached you ;¬P
Stale ?? we do not like crutons as much as the French do..
@ボイス Please stop dealing in steryotypes or we will be forced to respond in kind.
Re Acronyms - the new Bowman tactical radio network was so unreliable it was known as “better off with map and a NOKIA’
Before NI we did FIBUA training (fighting in built up areas) however quickly discovered that we much preferred FIBAR (fighting in bars and restaurants)
@@grahamo22 haha, which double sucked as we were issued Bosch mobiles at the time
This ones for my mates across the pond ! Cheerio ! What's your thoughts on the bullpup yay or nay?
I am still confused how you could turn that piece of trash into something useful
Nay. No bullpups.
nay even sas and 45 royal marine commandos use the c8
I think that the idea of a bullpup being more accurate is strange because almost always a bullpup is less effective at range but it doesn’t matter all that much
Bullpups are weird ngl, but I dont think they'll ever enter service as a main US battle rifle. Personally, I dont mind them, but I'm not sure it'll be used as much as the M4
i nearly spat out my tea when he said "fought in Argentina". and the worst thing is i'm not joking, i'm actually drinking a cuppa right now
not the spilling of a holy liquid my god.
The British didn't fight in Argentina: they fought to liberate British invaded territory!
100% correct
well said mate
The only way the British ever think anything is not their territory is if you punch them hard enough. Argentine failed to do so. There is always tomorrow though.
@ASCALON I've never felt very patriotic as a Brit but you comment made me want to hang the union jack on my wall.
@@Snipergoat1 Possession is nine tenths of law. If you can take it and hold it, it's yours! :)
My brother was in iraq, and he said the Brits were some of the baddest dudes he'd ever seen. I can't remember what branch of service he said they were, but he said you always knew they'd be right next to you when bullets started flying.
Haha, yeah I'm sure that's true. But I think he was only with one, I'm probably totally wrong but I wanna say it was the british marines. They weren't with them very long but they did na couple operations together I think. I honestly probably should've asked him before I went and said anything, so I didn't disrespect anyone.
@ASCALON apart from the RAF regiment :)
1991 or 2003?
@@mufc20timesbitches36 2003
🇬🇧🇺🇸🇨🇦🇭🇲🇳🇿
I've shot the A3s a good bit and they're not trash
I fired the original and they were high maintainence, jammed lots and ugly.
They are good 5.56 military rifles but it is 2020 and no one can really deny the dominance of the AR platform rifles.
Time to pack the L85 in, it was a good return on the initial investment (after the re-engineering job by HK) but these days every unit than can get its hands on a C8 is getting one. Even Royal Marines have moved entirely to it.
@@maxpowerii7368 AR platform are armilite rifles and thus a civilian varient of the colt m16 and m4 military rifles. AR platforms are not millitary.
@@maxpowerii7368 although, I do agree that there are better models of rifle the UK millitary could be using instead of the sa80 a3
@@MrRedeyedJedi AR platform is the term used to colloquially describe the entire family of rifles including military M16/M4 rifles.
Yooo an American who actually researched British slang and culture before he made the video.
I haven't heard someone say taccy chunder since back in school but it was always funny when Ur mate passed out, threw up and was suddenly back to 100% work rate again 😂
'when the British fought in Argentina in the 80's...' I'm sure that statement didn't raise any eyebrows.
Only British soldiers boots on ground would have been the S.A.S mate.
@Phil Mills That mission was cancelled when the troops were on the plane ready for a suicide mission ....Thank god
We didn’t fight in Argentina but if you would really like us to..we will send a battalion,that will be enough.
@@paulritchie5868
Considering that Argentina's military is in such a state that Cuba could successfully kick their asses, you're probably not wrong.
Suppose it depends on whether you count the Falklands as having briefly BECOME Argentine territory during their occupation of them, if so then guess our guys DID fight on Argentine soil in that sense; of course since I'm a British patriot I don't recognise them ever having a legitimate historical claim to the islands prior to that time nor have I any intention of doing so, Rule Britannia haha; but I'm talking about actually during that brief time in 1982, after the governor surrendered and before the taskforce arrived, do we count it as having been Argentine then? Their flag was flying there after all
I joined the British army as a bright-eyed 18 year old in 1989, I went into the Royal Artillery doing my basic training in Woolwich London, we were trained on the SLR as the SA80 was being prioritized to the Infantry regiments. I was posted to Germany (Dortmund) and it wasn't until mid to late 1990 that we first got our grubby paws on the SA80. First impressions, MEH! We did a six month tour of Belfast, Northern Ireland with it and thankfully I never had to use it in anger, the pesky perishing paramilitaries seemed determined to target us with IED's instead of taking us on in any kind of firefight. By the time I left in 1996, it hadn't been updated yet, I would love to check out the A3 but given our gun laws that will never happen, I am glad that it has been sorted out as our lads and lasses deserve the best.
Go elect better politicians. Geoff Who is trying to do just that in the US of A!
Bro went through basic turn of the Millennium, A1 throughout. Told me it went, from clean to maximum gas after 2 mags...
Which was FANTASTIC, because when he went his regiment and got an A2, he was shit-hot on all his drills, which never got chance to practice anymore, because the A2 was THAT good 🤣
@@edwardcullen1739 couldnt have been clean then 😉😁
I first used the L85A1 back in 1989 in NI, it was more than happy to have several magazines worth of ammo fired through it without having to change the gas setting, the gas plug was dirty but it only took a few minutes to clean it.
The A1 wasnt bad, it gets a bad rep because it should have never have been issued in its original form without the long list of issues not being corrected (the magazine release catch had a housing on the ones I used since 89), but there was also the magazine issue (meant to be disposable, RG mags), and in cold temps the plastics became brittle, yet I still had more issues with the L1A1 in reliability.
Got to say its a damned accurate rifle though, iron or optical sights.
@Chris George make one from an AR18 and an airsoft donor. post the results. youre welcome
@Chris George I was kidding :) I said AR18 as that's the base system for L85. I reckon though there must be a metal chassis you could use with some reel work and some metal epoxy. If youre in CA I'll even help
Bayonet training was and is incredibly important! As the Scots have demonstrated in 2004-2007, the sight of a motivated, determined and frenzied infantryman charging right at you with a flashing bayonet on the end of the rifle can and will cause unexpected pants colouring.
EDIT: It was brought to my attention that the Bayonet Charges of 2004 and 2011 were performed by Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, from South England.
The first time done by Sgt. Brian Wood in battle of Danny Boy in assistance of Argylls (which were initially reported as being those charging) who had been ambushed (Awarded the MC), and the second one by Cpl. Sean Jones in Afghanistan (Awarded the MC as well).
EDIT EDIT: It SHOULD be noted, that the Scots (Scots Guards to be precise) did indeed perform a Bayonet Charge during the 1982 Falklands War.
Granted, that is when you’re charging a bunch of poor farmers with AK’s.
Charging into a Russian infantry squad will probably just get them excited and remind them of wrestling comrade bear and comrade babushka when they were 4.
People have been scared of angry Scott’s with sharp objects since they built Hadrian’s wall
Aye, we're good at stabbing human objects, thats why we were the stabbing capital at one point for a good decade or two
I have had the honour of buying one of these mental hospitals escapees we call war hero’s a pint once in the past. A true hero
@@JA-lr5ix You're romantizing the russians. Their conscripts based on their performance in the chechen wars would be no braver than insurgents (and probably far less fanatical in conviction).
The British army had to change all their marksmanship parameters after introducing the first version of this rifle because it was so much more accurate.
I wouldn't say it's more accurate, but it is easier to shoot, so the average soldier will be more effective with it. In my service I've used the FAL, M16 and I have a bit of experience with the L85. I would say that the FAL is likely more accurate, especially at longer ranges, BUT it takes so much more training and practice to become good with it that the average soldier will do much better with the 5.56 rifles (especially with optical sights) with much less training and practice.
My shooting with the FAL SLR was woeful. As soon as we changed to the SA80 my shooting improved by about 50%. It was hard to miss at 100 yards. Nobody was failing the APWT (annual personal weapons test) so they had to half the size of the targets.
The one thing we can be sure about a *Chihuahua rifle* is it would be suprisingly loud for its size.
.308 AR pistol with no brace, no front furniture, 10 round mags, and a ridiculous muzzle brake.
Maybe an Obrez?
.50 cal with a nail duck taped on it
So like the original AK 74Us with no muzzle breaks?
A BB gun with a speaker system and a rotor built in.
As an Australian, I am deeply saddened that we are not your favourite ally, though I understand why.
Wait ... how ? 22 hours ago ?
How did you comment 22 hours ago
@@blckwtr2880 Found the vid in a playlist, dunno how it was there before being uploaded.
@rrobertt13 Found the vid in a playlist, dunno how it was there before being uploaded.
@@jaydenbaker9885 Found the vid in a playlist, dunno how it was there before being uploaded.
3:30 “the British fought in Argentina in the 80s”
Hold on there sonny jim!
He means argentina fought in Britain in the 80s
Two Argies shivering in a trench on Mt Tumbledown talking nervously about the approaching British troops. One Argie says, "No amigo, it's the Gurkhas that carry those weird scary knives, the Scots Guards carry broken bottles and razors!" 😫
I'll hazard a guess! 😆🍻
you have to admit it was basically a home match for Argentina, and they were wrecked by a country on the other side of the ocean.
It isn't that Americans think Britain invaded Argentina, it's more that most of us simply don't have a clear understanding of what happened, and we don't quite get that Argentina was dumb enough to blatantly invade and try to take something they had zero right to.
@Chris George I think your second point certainly stands but Argentina has never owned the Falklands and their claim is based on the fact that Argentina inherited Spanish claims in the region when Spain allowed Argentina independence. Spain however never held possession of the Falklands.
The daft thing is that Britain was actually gearing up to give the Falklands to Argentina (as the rest of the Empire was disposed of) but Galtieri got greedy and thought if he 'took' the islands he'd look better at home and Britain wouldn't protect them as they were going to give them away anyway. He didn't count on Thatcher being down in the polls and needing a boost in an upcoming election. Nothing wins the votes like winning a war....
Having used the SLR for many years, I found it heavy, large and when you are yomping with a 88 and full CEMO the full mags of 7.62 and the SLR it is just a real pain (no sling and caring handle removed) However the 7.62 round went through walls and when hit the enemy stayed down. With a SUIT sight it was reasonably effective and accurate.
Having used the early SA80 I found the gains were not great and the disadvantages of the new inferior weapon dangerous and preferred my SLR or even a AK !
I and others preferred the ability of hitting the enemy at a longer range and the ability to keep them down once hit and would sacrifice other kit in-order to carry more rounds (usually as link so could be broken down or used on the GMPG)
PS: Interesting UA-cam vlog on how the US Military shafted NATO out of adopting the FN (SLR)
The L1A1 was a fearsome weapon to both the enemy and the user. The recoil was so different to the SA80 but the damage, range and accuracy were frightening when it was dialled in correctly. Still, time doesn't stand still and we had to adopt to the -US- ....I mean NATO standard.
The only triggering thing is that the Union Jack is upside down
Only a jack if it’s mounted on a ship.... otherwise it’s the union flag. Common misconception.
@@elliotvernon5648 lol , no it isn't , the origins of "Jack" are disputed and unknown for certain , that it came from being flown from a Jack staff is only one possibility .
@@elliotvernon5648 Either is valid. It's a common misconception that is only when mounted on a ship.
I actually feel bad for not noticing that especially because I know I would be pissed if I saw the US flag upside down. I didn't notice, sorry about that everyone! and thanks for catching the mistake so it doesnt happen again
@@Taskandpurpose To be fair if you flew the Stars n Stripes upside down it would be obvious.
Only a very small minority of British people would know the right way to fly a Union flag.
Chunder is an old naval term for "watch under", shouted out before youre going to puke over the side of the boat.
It was also used in Men At Work's "Land Down Under."
As far as I know the term "Chunder" is an Australian term that originated on sailing ships taking prisoners to Australia... When seasick prisoners were up chucking between decks they tried to warn people below by shouting "What out under!!" But often there wasn't enough time to warn people so the phrase naturally got abbreviated to "CHUNDER!!!" followed by the OBLIGATORY soundtrack of the Technicolor Yawn...... "BWAAAAHHHHURG!"
Never knew that, and I'm Aussie as. Good shit.
Yes I know, I did too come here from Men at work's Down under.
2:48 sounds more Australian than British lmao
You sir are correct. I deserve a refund from my accent coach
@@Taskandpurpose No you deserve a kicking you f*cking tosspot. Great video, much love.
Sounds more CANADIAN than Australian
@@Taskandpurpose Just explain you have Welsh ancestors. Geoff Whose sainted Great Grand Mother was genetically English, not Irish...the family suspects many things.
Yeah and the Beret definitely isn’t British style
L85A2 has been a wonderful tool for putting a round exactly where you want it. A3 continues that along with the free-floating barrel and meaningful improvements in sights and other details. If a user still hates the A2/A3 then it means one of two things. Most likely, they are left-handed. Less likely, but very very annoying, they have been issued with a bad one. Yes, as with any high volume product there are variations including a few bad ones that are not as accurate (possibly variations in barrel mounting details). If you get a really good one then the confidence with which one can put a round exactly where it is required is stunning. If they can work out what makes a really good L85 and develop an ambidextrous evolution then this ugly pup may have a very long future.
@Will he heck as like Fairly ambidextrous but not left-handed. Worked with left-handed guys and right-handed guys who are left-eye dominant! Right-hand corners always an issue too!
Yeah HK redesigned all the functionality so it COULD be used by a lefty but was only essentially dressing the problem in a nice skirt and not actually fixing it.
Ehhh I just don't like the reloading and how it doesn't feel natural. Also the whole feel of the gun is strange to me.
It absolutely puzzles me why UK didn't just go with FN AUG\Aus-Steyr
@@thespartenkidHome built gun. Offers jobs
Should of got original human to do the British part
ah thats a great idea! I'll have to see if he'd want to do a bit sometime
@@Taskandpurpose he'll probably do a reaction to the video, see the British part and think "I can do that betta" then see the comments and laugh his ass off
He’s part of the Royal Marines so his equipment might be different than the standard british army
@@Chris09978 nah, the RM and British Army were given the same weapon systems but I think they're changing now
@@BDOG.777 pretty sure sbs are transitioning to that new m4/ar15 looking rifle
I was in the Royal Marines in the 70’s our standard issue rifle was the fn fal, we were told during training that the reason we did not have full auto on these rifles was “ because you will just get overexcited like the bloody yanks and run out of ammo in seconds” !
Haha, except it was the L1A1 SLR.
@@HowlinWilf13 how can one forget
The AK47 overcame this problem by having the 'full auto' selector as the middle setting, with single shot in the forward setting. The logic was that the excited rookie would push the setting full on when confronted by attrition - but this would only fire single rounds. One had to slow down and think before finding the full auto mode. . . . . . Arkady K was foremost a good listener!
My instructor "There are two setting on the L85 labelled A and R,
R is for Repetition and A is for American"
I was next to you when you were told that. 🤣
I´m Austrian and served with the Steyr AUG A1, our beloved StG77.
Personally i never shot another assault rifle so i can´t compare, but i found the trigger ok.
As said, never shot anything else, i only hear from others that bullpups are infamous for spongy triggers.
The Steyr is fantastic, it is rugged and reliable, easy to maintain and handle while being nice short even though it has a full rifle length barrel.
Most of the time, assault rifles called stg are always good tbh
"Cheeky L85 Brits Bullpup Goes From Rubbish to Ace"
At this point the L85 is practically German though.
When the A2 came out HK was British owned.
@@justryan6480 True for the A2, but not A3 :D
@@riesenfliegefly7139 Haha ye thats true
Even better **coughs in G36**
2LT Sheridan just isn’t tho
"Other countries use Bullpups like China or the Aussies"
Sad Austrian Noises
And the French. Don't forget the Jamaicans either
At least the Aussies realise left handed people exist.
Well, the bri'ish probably took inspiration for the austrian rifle... The argentinians used at Falklands... Wait, what? Didn't they use the FAL? Yes, regular infantry. But Marine Commandos used Steyr AUGs. Pretty badass for a lil' south american country, ain't it?
@@eduardotrillaud696 The British probably took inspiration from the British. It's called the EM2, from 1950, and there are a heap of videos about it and the SA-80's development began in the mid-70s.
So, in short, no.
I was an apprentice at the establishment that made these weapons back in the early eighties. We had many overseas visitors including US Rangers and everyone commented on how accurate the rifle was. I always knew it as the SA80 L1A1 back then.
I recall it being called the SA80, sometimes the L85, while the LSW (the slightly heavier version) being the L86. I think L1A1 was the SLR.
The L85A1 was garage, I lost count how many magazines I dropped mid way through firing. The A2 was a great gun, with a terrible trigger!
Didn't get chance to try the A3.
Despite constant reassurance that some great innovation in bullpup design was right around the corner, I have yet to fire a bullpup where the trigger pull wasn't absolute trash.
#compoundred
The A3 isn’t much of an update, years with the A2 and the A3 and it hadn’t changed any of our minds about wanting to remove bullpup altogether
We still training to bayonet charges. And the last charge was Iraq. They ran out of ammo and charged the enemy stabbing and fighting though the enemy position
Because everyone has a plan until some 20-odd, tough-as-nails, working-class lads are pelting at you, yelling and brandishing knives on sticks!
rrrrrrr bayonet training, where all the NCO's beast you to the point of breaking and then give you an overly sharp blade on a rifle and tell you to let lose on a sand bag
@@mathewwilson5295 Thank good I was in the Artillery, none of that shit for me. Beastings yes, bayonet drill...nah.
@@martinogle4509 That's the problem with artillery, the bayonets would be huge and scary but damn hard to stab anything with.
@@pitmatix1457 When not in combat, artillery bayonets also have the distinguished name of "snowplow". This throws of the enemy just as much as "tank" did back in the day.
Somewhere, a angry Scottish man by the name of Sledge is watching
Ayyyyyyy
Lmfao I just told ash and the boys and they laughed so hard.
Hey I’m an angry Scotsman
@@para_magnus2200 Well...Geoff Who notes that is a redundant statement.
Dont forget the angry Brit oldie who hates electronics and is named after a prime minister
I've put a lot of rounds through this weapon, I've had very few problems with it reliability wise. The build quality of the early ones was suspect, probably because the factory was being closed down.
The first magazines were M16 mags. I still have one.
BTW, it was never called the A1. That only started when the improved model was called the A2.
I still remember my first tactical chunder. It was after playing a game of cricket against Teddington when I was 17. I got a hat trick (3 wickets in a row when bowling) and was subject to downing my first pitcher of Fullers honey dew. Suffice to say, being my younger self, I was not well endowed to deal with the effects of said alcohol. My captain then gave me advice, which I aptly followed, to expel the contents of my stomach on the side of the clubhouse/pavillion.
Herr Ernst Mauch from H&K redesigned the SA80-family rifle and LSW to A2 configuration. I'll attest that every bit of Herr Mauch's vast design experience went into correcting the original faults, and he was visibly proud of what he achieved: the A2 rifle is/ was a fantastic bit of kit.
Don't mean to be picky, but the British never fought in Argentina, they fought in the Falkland Islands, which are some distance away from Argentina, and contrary to people's misconceptions, have never actually been owned by, or part of Argentina.
this is a good point it was my mistake! A lot goes into making these videos and occasionally I miss things
Unless you count the SAS teams who were inserted into mainland Argentina to observe and report on the airforce bases to give early warning of air strikes. I don't think they got into any fire fights though.
Wrong! The sas raided mainland Argentina en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mikado
oh shut up.
@@WlLKO Not a good source. The brits did not mount on the argentine mainland, but who cares anyway. www.eliteukforces.info/articles/sas-versus-exocets.php
Great analysis! I've never held one but they look cool. My army buddy's trained with the British in wainwright Alberta and I believe his exact quote was "the brits are hard bastards "
Most offensive bit about that British impression was the beret 😭😭😭
"They don't like it up 'em" as Corp Jones from Dads Army said about the cold steel of the bayonet
Bit of trivia about that - Jones refers to the people who didn't like 'em up 'em as "Fuzzy-wuzzies" which was soldier slang for the nomadic Beja people of Southern Sudan and Northern Eritrea. They fought the Brits during the Mahdist War of 1881-99. The Beja fought mostly with spears and swords, the Brits with Lee-Metford and later Lee-Enfield .303 rifles, and hollowpoint bullets developed by the armoury at Dum-Dum in India (hence "dum-dum bullets" - later outlawed as a battlefield munition by the Hague Convention of 1899) and of course the Lee-Enfield long bayonets which were really short swords. According to Kipling's poem about them the "Fuzzy-Wuzzies" "broke the square". British troops in an open battlefield situation from before the time of Waterloo fought in formation, and the Square was a way to cover all round, previously with muskets using 2-rank volley fire (one rank reloads while the other presents & fires - see "Zulu" movie for that in action). Breaking the square means the Beja over-ran the British formation with sheer weight of numbers, falling upon them with sword and spear, and the fighting would have been hand to hand with bayonet & rifle butt. Jones often advocates for the use of bayonets, coming out with this catch-phrase - he admits to being 70 years old in one episode, putting him above the upper limit for the home guard but the truth is that he had to have been over 90 to have fought in the Mahdist war - and the images of the Beja's reactions to his bayonet "up them" had stuck with him for 42+ years like it was yesterday.
A couple inaccuracies. The L85 bullpup design concept-not calibre--came from the EM-2 bullpup rifle that was briefly adoptes by the British Army in 1951. The EM-2 was designed to fire the .280 British, a true general purpose cartridge. The L85 was specifically desigd to be rechambered to the 5.56mm NATO cartridge if their superior 4.85mm cartridge wasn't adopted by NATO due to US pressure. This was smart by the UK as they knew from experience what happened in the 1950s and their EM-2 Bullpup and its associated .280 cartridge. The US effectively forced NATO to adopt a less then optimal cartridge in the form of the 7.62mm NATO, which ia what happened with the 5.56mm NATO if today. Now it has come full circle and the US is close to adopting a 6.8mm cartridge...kinda like an improved variant of the original .270 British that later becam the .280 British.
L85-A1: One of the worst service rifles of the 20th century
L85-A2: They got H&K to fix it which involved tearing out almost everything about the gun and redesigning it.
L85-A3: They made it lighter, gave it modern mounting rails, and generally polished it up to modernize it.
Quite the rocky ride for a little bullpup rifle.
H&K at the time was owned by BAE
As a Brit I thoroughly enjoyed this. Hopefully you bring the term Tactical Chunder into the US mainstream 😂
the Britich version of the FAL was called the SLR, and for many British soldiers was and still preferred weapon to older veteran soldiers, when compared to the SA80, as it had a higher reliability and more accurate... the A2 was a much better version than the A1... but then a weapon is only as good as the person operating it...
It was only semi automatic though afaik, I have been told by arrmed forces members who serverd then and they said the SLR was drropped for an arg FAL because of the fulll auto capability
@@jimmyd1337 from what I know it was semi auto and full auto, this is from a veteran para who used it during the 70s and 80s with a 20 round mag also the SLR was otherwise identical to the FN version in everyway, just was adopted under the designation of SLR by the British armed forces
@@shaneedwards596 I was told this by an ex army fire arms trainer so i dont know tbh. I am aware they are otherwise identical
Like the US M14, the SLR as originally designed was capable of being used selective fire but most of them had the parts removed because of control and accuracy problems. Also like the M14, there was a special LMG/automatic rifle version (L2A1) with a heavier barrel and fixed bipod.
@@jarink1 So i was told pretty much correctly then, quick google search also backs up my claims that the SLR was only semi automatic (mostly)
Carried my L85A1 for 9 years and put thousands of rounds through it, used it in the heat and sand of BATUS all the way to the ice and cold of Bosnia as well as various other shit holes. Never had a stoppage, never had a mag fall out, never had an issue. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe I just looked after mine properly.
Probably the latter, but I'd bet a substantial sum you could think of at least one squaddie of your acquaintance who was less "fortunate"
You looked after it.
You and me had the exact same experience.... and time/ locations. Haha. Never really ever had a problem with it.
Plus what was he chatting about "could only put 26 rounds in the mag" bollocks.
Exactly!
Thank you.
The one really good thing about this rifle even the first version when it worked was even Stevie wonder could hit a target at 300m with it its a by accurate rifle and can easily take the 5.56 out to its realistic maximum range effectively
Hit em with 5.56 they get up and carry on,hit em with 7.62..no way are they getting up.
@@paulritchie5868
The theory goes it takes two solders to look after one that’s wounded so hence 5.56 Personally I’ll take 7.62 NATO every time
@@paulritchie5868 there speaks someone who has never used one. You don't get up from being hit by a 5.56mm round travelling at over 900fps. The projectiles also tumble when they hit, causing devastating injuries.
@@ScienceChap think you meant 900m/s, my black powder revolver can manage 900fps. 😉
@@ScienceChap Well, yes and no. It has to hit something solid to tumble. I had friends in Northern Ireland who got all the way back to base after a shooting incident and took off their flack jackets before they realised they'd been hit. On the other hand, I saw one soldier hit square in the back from 150 metres, when it did tumble - it span from his backbone, right round his side and came off at his ribs in the front. It didn't penetrate at all. He was back on duty in six weeks.
When the 5.56 first came out, everyone was terrified of it, so the CO of 42 Commando, serving in the Far East, drew up the whole Commando and shot a tethered goat in front of them with the 5.56. He shot it four times and it was still standing. He then picked up an SLR and put a 7.62 round through it, which blew it straight off its feet. 'Nuff said.
Cons: It can only be fired right handed, you can’t change the ejection port to the other side. Even though you fire it right handed it has to be cocked with the left hand reaching over the top of the rifle. And if you’re remf you don’t get an optic sight or fore-grip, just some shitty iron sight.
The reaching over to cock was an intentional design, meant to force you to tilt the weapon and therefore look into the chamber (thereby being more aware of whether a round is chambered).
Of course, it was bollocks and just makes life painful.
When I was in training, a tough old sergeant of artillery told me that the main reason for the switch from 7.62mm to 5.56mm was because there was a study showing that for each seriously injured soldier, three more were required to assist them, which meant that a small, fast round that didn’t kill outright, actually neutralised combatants more quickly.
Your Sergeant was wrong. This is one of those military urban myths that has been around forever but has no grounding in actual truth.
that sounds lovely, shame its bollocks mate.
@@dannythomson5239 talk to the SAS on that one.... if you don't know any just look at their weapons
That idea far pre-dates the change in ammunition.
My old dad, now sadly gone, fought throughout the second half of WW2 and ascribed that mindset to Japanese tactical thinking.
That would only work if the enemy was set on rescuing and treating it's soldiers, most likely it was a weight and logistics/money issue.
I used both the FAL and SA80 in the 1980s! Half my basic training was on the FAL and half on the SA80!! They both have + and - and both had teething pains in their early days. The best thing about the SA80 was the sling! It's also good for IS, urban, and mounted operations. My worst memory was magazines dropping out from an exposed release catch (later fixed).
I would, however, choose the big, clumsy FAL despite the heavy rounds, length, and weight. I still remember how much 200 rounds of ball and 100 rounds of belted weighed and how much space it took up. But in the zombie apocalypse, I would go with a FAL or AK! The FAL can double as a club; fix a bayonet; is effective to 600m with good stopping power; and is simpler and more robust.
I am old fashioned: fewer rounds means good fire discipline and the rifle man's main jobs are to carry belted rounds for the section GPMG and to protect the gun team. I also rather all 7.62 than 5.56 for rifles and 7.62 for guns. I also believe that infantrymen need to be trained to march 30 kms a day with 50 kgs of kit and still prepare a hasty defensive position. I believe in balanced firepower from platoon up (rifles, GPMGs, CarlG, and mortar) and no unit (except maybe an LRP) should operate without good fire-support from Bn mortars or Bde guns.
Agreed. Maybe we’re just getting old. The SADF doctrine was the same. Not rate of fire but accuracy of fire and the ability to hump as much kit as needed without crying.
I used both. I liked the SLR kick...it felt proper. However, I prefered the LSW as I got dicked to carry the LMG (Lovely proven piece of work, but a pain to lug about. Glad the Minimi replaced the LSW it was a bag of shit idea)
In the Zombie apocalypse I would go for an MP5SD; if you have to shoot, do it as quietly as possible.
We fought the Argies in the British Falkland Islands ( as they were then, now they are just the Falkland Islands a British dependency).
Colonial mindset
@@daljiba
Nah the the Falkland people want to be british
@@daljiba Like Kashmir or Sikkim?
@@daljiba So the British are colonisers and the Spanish aren't, interesting, please tell me more.
We were just transitioning to the SA80 when I left the Army - my immediate concern was the huge number of parts, many of them small and intricate, which had to be removed to simply strip the weapon for field cleaning and maintenance - not a big advantage! If you ever see pictures/videos of the SAS or SBS, who tend to pick their own weapons, you'll never see one of these, which seems to underline just how popular it is!
I used the A1 for 6 years. Never had one stoppage. It was very accurate using the SUSAT sight. As long as you looked after it I can say it was very effective
Had stoppages for the whole time the A1 was in service, didn't help that we had shit ammo at the time as well, which just compounded the problem. The only way to mitigate against it was to lather the thing in extra oil which then created other issues. As soon as HK re-designed it and changed the centre of gravity of the working parts (as I was led to believe). the performance improved immensely and I can't say I had a single stoppage when firing the newer variant. Had a PWRR friend who did some of the desert testing out in Jordan using both variants for comparison and it went from about 95% throughput on the A1 to 99.999% on the A2.
Well done with the Ross Geller "English" accent! 😂
A nice picture of an L85A2 with the title L85A3 next it!
Lots of other minor errors in the historical info, e.g. the SA80 design program wasn't kicked off by the Falklands War as it predated the war by several years.
Regardless still nice to see a video from across The Pond that isn't slagging the L85 based on 35 year old complaints from the A1.
As an armourer who works in the things I can say that the latest A3 improvements had made things a further step up from the A2. Overall yes it has its flaws as does any rifle but it's now a solid performer.
The Royal Marines are starting to replace it with a version of the Colt Canada C8.
And lbs aren't dead here!
And what do you mean we fought IN ARGENTINA???
Some of the SF branches did
I wish all the nations would just go back to using their old pre-Metric systems of measurement for everyday things. And if you're planning to be a scientist or something then you learn metric. Everyone just being forced to use the same system is boring and takes away everyone's cultural uniqueness.
@Брандон Кeллeр the ideological subversion is very strong here :(
as a brit I have to say this was bloody hilarious ! well done Sir :)
Minor correction.
1. The SA80 family of rifles is used by the whole British Armed Forces that's the Royal Navy, Royal Marine Commandos, Royal Air Force and the British Army. It isn't just a infantry rifle.
2. The Royal Marine Commandos and Parachute Regiment (mostly the Pathfinders) rocked the M4 instead of the L85A1 they quoted that if the special forces don't trust the weapon system then they won't either. This has widely changed with the introduction of the L85A2 when the weapon wasnt such a turd.
3. The British Armed Forces consists of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, not to mention the Nepalese Gurkhas and a whole load of British Commonwealth Nations we all take the piss out of each other, constantly it's called "banter" I'm not even sure my English friends could place the accent hahaha.
4. The breakdown rifle you used was for the LSW (Light Support Weapon) it got binned and the Minimi was taken up instead.
Apart form the few minor issues good video did you ever find out how many stackable grenades could be stacked together before they become a weapon system that takes 3 men to yeet at a enemy?
Good video for the most part
Correction commandos a getting a complete makeover and switching to a new rifle also the British military have decided to replace all our LMGs with marksmen rifles.
Yeah my mate is in 43 commando they are currently using the C8 diemaco basically the Canadian M4 carbine
@@samuel10125 Really? Is that because with the development of ARs they aren't considered that useful any more?
@@samuel10125 Not quite true, the LMG's are being concentrated into the Heavy Section of the Platoon, rather than being spread out in the rifle sections. Last I heard this change was only for Light Infantry as well, not for the Mech Inf (though that may have changed) which last time I looked were still keeping the LMG's in their rifle sections. The US Marines are doing a similar thing, Light infantry having their LMG's centralised into a heavy section with two rifle sections. I understand like the British their Mech Inf are retaining their rifle section LMG's though, as they dismounts will have the support of the IFV's anyway, so less requirement for a DMR.
Of course, this was from a few years ago, so things may have changed since... but that was what they were looking at then.
@@alganhar1 www.overtdefense.com/2018/03/21/british-army-set-drop-light-machine-guns/ honestly it seems like they are dropping them completely.
Did I just watch Cappy defending a bullpup design?
Ohh you're on the wrong side of the bugaloo Cappy
(Sarcasm mode on)
We've only had the metric system for 60 years, most people still use imperial measurement. We like to take our time with these things
"Go the country kilometre", "give them a centimetre and they'll take a kilometre", "drinka 0.57 litresa milka day" I think I'd want to shoot myself.
tacfoley maybe he ment 60 metric years
i loved the SA80 when i was in the army cadets, incredibly accurate for its size and manoeuvrable for drills. shame the yellow cap that’s fitted to the barrel for blank fire drills completely negates that and ruins the balance
I broke a window in cadets when stripping with the spring 😂
@@JB-yb6ks haha my mate in basic training hit himself in the forehead with it was dead funny
You mean BFA blank firing attachment?
@@JB-yb6ks That's why you put your palm over the end
Did you have the L98 with the cocking handle on the side? That was the version we had in our school armoury along with a few ancient Bren guns that rattled so much they sounded like they were about to fall apart.
I am sorry but we didn’t fight in Argentina, we fought in Her Majesty the Queen’s sovereign land
I botched that part thanks for setting me straight on that!
Thought the special forces raided an air base in Argentina and destroyed planes which were a threat and then sneaked off to Chile ?
You fought in contested territory, not argentinian, not british, source : The united nations
@@stanfordwillis4841 I would have dropped a submarine launched missile on the Argentina parliament and given them one hours notice to move out. That would be my message lol
@@peterwait641 Same here really, that was a dick move, and for no other reason than taking the argentinian population's attention away from what was happening mainland, there was nothing of value there for argentinians and by the 80s the Falklanders did consider themselves british and not argentinian
The bayonet charge in Iraq was done by my old regiment 1 PWRR, 1st Battalion The Princess of Wales”s Royal Regiment.
Also doesn't come in a left handed version because... left hand is one of the devil 😂
There are no left handed people in the UK 🇬🇧 >:)
"Welcome to the British army. Now we don't like any of that 'comfort and ergonomic' bollocks so you will shoot the way we tell you to shoot and you'll bloody well like it!"
@@stephanswanepoel2448 the handle is on the right side of the weapon so if you were to peak the right corner there may be an issue but your face should be on the cheek weld to get a good sight picture even when peeking so you'd have to be monumentally stupid to get you teeth staved in bu the charging handle
It's interesting cos when i went to learn a violin I told the instructor I was left handed. He just shrugged and said "have you ever played a violin left handed?" Never discussed again and I never worried about left/right on an object. I just use stuff (except a pen) right handed. As many UK recruits will never have fired a battle rifle or any firearms before I doubt it makes a difference in the long run. All in the training.
Im right handed but shoot left i remember in cadets we used the SA80 on a range and learned how to strip & clean it but the Srg told me i had to learn to shoot right and deal with it 😂😂
I used to use the SLR in the Marines, and apart from concussing all your mates when jumping into or out of a helicopter or landing craft, it was fine. And it could be fired auto. Although, if we did that it wouldn't stop firing until the magazine was empty, and apart from killing any birds in the area, would have been pointless.
@Uther Petersen good times. 45 & 3 cdo bgde
The L85 can trace its history back to the EM2 in the late 40’s early 50’s with the .280 cartridge
Unfortunately politicians got involved
@@davegc16 You mean a certain WInston Churchill. The EM2 was adopted by the army, then the shermans had a hissy fit and Churchill intervened and the EM2 was officially unadopted.
@@KP-viking88 ua-cam.com/video/fcYj2SpUHvE/v-deo.html
@@davegc16 Watched the link months ago thanks
The l85 can’t trace anything back it’s an object
I was still in the army when we traded our SLR's in for the A1, as a left hooker the only positive things I can say is that they were surprisingly accurate, and take less effort to shoot well, 5 round groups in a 20p piece were not uncommon
Bloody hell
I still can remember how that A1 almost got me killed twice during the second dessert storm. It was very accurate however that girl wasn’t the best choice for dessert combat, because it always has a habit to jam as the dust and sand were too easy to get into the rifle. It’s a shame I don’t have any more chances to try the A3 as I’m no longer a Royal Marine Commando........😔
"Dessert storm"? Two booties, one meringue?
Lies
Guess you should used the a2, everyone else but you had one mate
@@nw8759 hello mate. Desert storm was operation to liberate Kuwait in jan 91. With op iraq freedom to remove saddam in 03.
Yanks had loads for thier on going and ever changing strategies in Afghanistan. But you are correct on uk involvement being called Herrick with only the number containing.
Walt
8:50 you quoted 2004 as an example of bayonets being used by the brits in modern combat, but my teacher who was a captain in the royal Anglian around 12 years ago said he ordered his men to fix bayonets before heading into battle twice in Afghanistan in around 2010-2011
British Special Forces soldiers could choose any weapon they wanted. They chose the Canadian Army rifle... Colt C7
So did the armed forces of Denmark.
Weren’t around in the eighties and nineties though. G3 for a long, HK53 and MP5 Ks for norn iron. Browning HP for a short.
The weapon of choice for the SAS was the M16A1/M203 with an underslung grenade launcher, it's rumoured to have even been used by them on Argentine mainland but those missions are still classified and don't officially exist.
The C7 is just a Colt M16-A2 built under license.
I'm glad Britain is learning to fix these mistakes as there was a similar comeback story for the American M16. The first iteration of it was pretty awful with regular stoppages, a lack of cleaning tools, stability issues and most importantly an ammunition change that was not properly tested. However when the M16A2 came out most of these issues were fixed and the rifle slowly fell back into favour with mistakes being learnt
Is learning? The SA80A2 upgrade programme was 20 years ago!
False equivalence.
The early AR-15's that were trialled by advisors in Vietnam in 1963 were very well received and suffered none of the problems that were later reported.
In short, the change in propellant from stick to ball, plus the negligence of the Department of Defence and the top brass in the U.S Army caused the problems, there was nothing whatsoever wrong with the M16.
The SA80 was just a piece of dung.
36 years service in the British Army. Awesone weapon system especialy with it SUSAT. Never had a stopage because i looked after it. It realy is awesome.
36 yrs ??? ummmm wtf
@@catlee8064 yep, joined in 1983left in June 2020. Seen alot of change!!!
I think we're getting to the stage where 'pups are becoming the superior system, although it's taken a long time.
The SA-80A2 and EF-88 are great rifles in their own right. The advantages in range, accuracy, balance and comfort are outweighing the ergo of changing the mag (and with practice this is overcome) and inferior trigger mechanisms.
metric or imperial measurements, I work in construction in the uk (i'm a carpenter) and absolutely everybody is using both systems everyday it just depends which measurement falls more easily on the tape measure, the vast majority of tapes have both systems marked on them
All new born babies are measured in lbs and everyone's height is in feet and inches, after that it is just random variations depending on age or job.
We are always amused by the American use of British thermal units, how preRevolutionary.
i loved the sa 80 during my years service . the A1 was terrible. it jammed alot and that was actually a good thing. in basic training you train with the A1 and because it jammed so much it made the recruit EXTREMELY GOOD at clearing stoppages and getting back to engaging the enemy. the A2 rifle was issued to in unit troops and that rarely jammed. the best thing is thta if it ever jammed, your past use of the A1 had already gotten you so proficient with stoppage drills that you could get the A2 back into the fight in record time . i loved the SA80 i still love that rifle to death and if given the choice to go into combat ill gladly strap the SA80 across my chest again
Aluminium magazines!
I love this story, check it:
It was initially decided to start using disposable magazines
Yes, loaded at factory, uses once, dropped on floor
So, they were specc'd for that, X amount of alu and y amount of spring steel, enough for one use
But then, the MOD had a brilliant cost saving idea, can you guess what that was?? 🤩🤩🤩
Yes! If you pick them back _up_ off the floor and but moar bullits in them, you can use them _more than once!!!_
God bless the mod
*salutes*
Nur n' nur nur nur nuuuuuuuur
Oh wait, that's your song isn't it?
I used the A2 rifle in training, but deployed with a C8. Moving to the C8 felt so much lighter and easier to fire even with IR, acog, dot site and suppressor attachments. I prefer having both hands closer to the body like you can with C8/M4. My left hand always felt too far away on the A2 even with a mounted vertical grip. Although i didnt hate the A2, it felt unnecessarily heavy and would reliably jam after one mag on full auto.....mate
C8 were you with the pathfinders?? I think I heard some marines are using them now as well
It worked most of the time so I never used to complain but a buddy of mines in the sas told me that it’s a rifle they very rarely choose to use because of how awkward and unreliable it is.
>buddy of mines in the sas
cheers tam, Spin us some more hereford dits. Was he on the balcony?
Not strictly true. The ar15 platform was far more modular and able to stick more fancy bits on, the L85 is rapidly catching up but I suspect the ar has cemented its place with the SAS.
@@chrishitchings8712 Even so, it's less desirable than an M16/C17. The AR15 system is just the better weapons platform. The fact it took a very long time for the L85 to get it's act together is unacceptable.
0:23 It's an Assault Rifle. The last Battle Rifle used by Brits was the L1A1 FN FAL
2:33 wtf, we invented IMPERIAL measurements. In fact we measure EVERYTHING wrong - we mix up units. Did you know we buy petrol in litres and measure efficiency in mpg? And then interchange units from metres to feet/inches for no reason!
3:28 The Brits didn't fight IN Argentina. They FOUGHT Argentina on British land in...
3:35 ... the FALKLANDS Islands. Notice the D?
I have a metric pattern FAL and love it. Unfortunately the metrics pattern (like the Argentine forces used) don't accept inch pattern magazines. The inch pattern accept either so the Brits did have the advantage in the Falklands.
lol I'm from the North East of England and we still refer to 50p's as 'Ten bob' (thats pre-decimalisation to those not from the UK). So yeah I guess we're a bit weird in our choice of measurements. 'How far to target... ' 'oh I dunno about 40 tractors .. ' !! [sights click click] Pew Pew Madaffakaaaaas!!
I've heared somewhere that they used to call them Marley's because they were alwase jamming.
Hang on! Hang on! One very important point. The British never fought in Argentina in the 1980s!!
Although we did learn we needed to carry more ammo in the Falklands, we've been trying to get nato to switch to intermediate cartridges and bullpup assault rifles since, um, 1945.
Sa80 actually started development in '76 I think? I think it was just dumb luck that we had one ready (for given values of ready) shortly after our Falklands adventure
yep the se2 gun development ended at the start of the 60s. that's the gun everyone thinks the l85 is based on. but its not really. the thing that ended up becoming the l85 started its development in, as you rightly said, 76.
Early prototypes were developed in the 50s.
@@tommyfred6180
what's an SE2?
@@High_Lord_Of_Terra
You don't mean the EM-2 do you?
Because they were completely independent from the SA80 project.
The em2 couldn't be adapted for long rounds, USA demanded a full power rifle round for the m14.
The L64/65 became the SA80 in 556.
We could have had the em2 in .177 British in 1948! 😭
@@MostlyPennyCat ya my bad i meant em-2. the se2 is a type of drill bit so what i was thinking is beyond me. :)
Pop gun couldn't beat my old SLR now that was a rifle even today I still miss her .ex disabled service man.
I think 'Bloke on the Range' correctly identified the fundamental problems with bullpup rifles:
Because the trigger assembly has to be in front of the magazine rather than under the bolt, the receiver inherently has to be much longer but it cannot be any thinner for the same rigidity, this only increases the weight of the system even though it's shorter overall, you're increasing the length of the complex parts. With a trigger mechanism immediately behind the magazine the receiver can be compact and light, then you can have a lightweight but strong stock.
And the whole point of a bullpup is to have a really long barrel in a short overall length. But you don't need a long barrel with modern cartridges. Generally, a barrel of the same thickness will be stiffer and more accurate if it is shorter. The UK recently adopted a "marksman rifle" with a 400mm (16 inch) barrel even though being in 7.62NATO a 400mm barrel gives sufficient velocity so the bullet never goes transonic at any expected range. Especially for 5.56mm, you get such diminishing returns beyond 400mm barrel length.
The idea longer barrels are more accurate came from when everyone used iron sights, if the front sight was further away from the rifleman's eye, that served accuracy. A long thin barrel had a tendency to "whip" and needed to be well bedded into a wooden stock to be accurate. But the best results are with a heavy free-floating barrel and those results are best with a short heavy barrel.
The difference is when H&K tested the L85 against the m4 and m16 the L85 could repeatedly hit the bull but the m4 & m16 couldn't hit the target that's why the longer barrel is better you have 1 shot kills as opposed to 1 mag 1 possible kill.
@@andrewtadd4373 That's total horseshit.
All they compared an L85 WITH AN OPTICAL SIGHT to a clapped out old M4 with iron sights. And you LIED that the M4 couldn't hit the target, the M4 only performed slightly worse. The M4 could get an ACOG sight but they didn't want a fair test.
The UK government demanded a rigged test that let them off the hook.
Long ago they should have just gotten a Diemaco like Canada did. Canada once again is the grown up.
@@Treblaine words from the man at H&K who jigged them and fired them.
@@andrewtadd4373 You mean the man who RIGGED the test.
No one has been able to replicate their results... EVER.
Reminds me of when VW cars got emission testing "the engine is so whisper quiet, it's as if the engine isn't even turned on!" so don't try the excuse of "German companies have an reputation for honesty, they'd never try to rig test results".
HK was British owned at the time and was contracted by the UK government to save face on the SA80 debacle.
@@Treblaine he only said it was accurate not that it was a good rifle overall, it was designed by people who had no experience designing firearms, the only thing they managed to get right was the accuracy. The rest was a shit show he said it took so much admin just to get it reliable that it would be in bits more times than it was together, that's why it was given to H&K to sort out. You are forgetting longer barrels are more accurate end of.
Was always a relief to find your mag still in after rapid roping onto a ship we were boarding the A2 was a great improvement
I think that your “British” friend is actually Australian.
Massively Australian 😆
@@ItzDylanM No, he's a pillock!
American: "dude"
Brit: "sir"
Aussie: "mate"
@@hpdpco6634 brit = mate
lol i was thinking that was the worst british accent ever