I've been riding Campagnolo since 1994. I think your analysis is spot on, the customer base for Campy is aging out. I don't see them surviving independently for more that 10 more years or so.
I have a Super Record Wireless groupset and been riding it for close to a year. I still have a steel frame here with a now 20 year old Super Record on it, which is still going strong (with some TLC). This new groupset is interesting from a price point and I do hope more people are going to pick it up. Will I build a new bike on this groupset? Probably not, at least not in the near future.
Ergonomics, thumbshifter, light weight. That was Campagnolo's appeal. And then they threw it all away. I won't even mention the history and racing DNA because there is nothing left of it.
I got back into road cycling this year after about a decade away from the sport. I always loved vintage italian bikes and old school Campagnolo (I've got an 8 speed Campy groupset with Delta brakes in the garage). Coming back into the sport, I WANT to aspire to one day own a top of the line race bike with Campagnolo components just like I did a decade ago, but I just can't with the products they're putting out these days. They're impossible for me to justify, even if you gave me a blank check to buy whatever I wanted, I woulnd't end up with Campagnolo.
In the end the riders matters and even TOUR-magazine admits that spending EURO 75 for tires is the biggest impact in your performance on the bicycle, nobody should compare himself to the dumbest consumers - money is still rare and hard earned (mostly).
@@michaelcheng6469 Happened long before that. In some ways I blame Greg LeMond though he didn't want it to happen...but his success spawned multi-national industries to get involved (Coke, Nestle, etc.) bringing in North American (and other) rich consumers. Soon enough, cycling was "the new golf" complete with all the "you are what you buy" a--holes that come with it. BigTex made it even worse...and here we are.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 It's ironic that the corporations getting so big and greedy might be the reason for their undoing. This madness with prices can only last so long. After all, you don't exist without someone buying your stuff.
Don’t forget - Campag now only want certified campagnolo mechanics to service their groupsets and wheels. They’ve lost the plot completely. Tried to get the spoke tensions for the Hyperon ultra and they said no. Take them to an official campag mechanic. The service interval is 2,000km. Lunacy. Round spokes and cup and cone bearings. Now “exclusive” according to the accountants running [ruining] Campagnolo.
Insane. 2000km would only be about 2 months. My dt Swiss wheels (240 hubs) are 4 years old and they’re still as good as new. Never out of true and running smooth
@@Tommy31416 nothing wrong with Campagnolo cup & cone bearings, the ones in my Zondas are flawless after over 25.000 km. Round spokes are a definite step back, however, along with their "official Campagnolo mechanic" malarkey. It's as if they genuinely wanted to scare away any potential customers.
@@11robotics don’t get me wrong - I mention the spokes and hub type only to highlight that these used to be the home mechanic’s go to choices. They are incredibly easy to maintain. I have an old set of rim brake boras that I have the spoke tensions for. Campag sent them to me. My problem is their rebranding of tried and tested wheel technology as something too advanced to be maintained by anyone who hasn’t taken their certification courses. Refusing to provide the spoke tensions for the hyperons should be illegal on safety grounds. Yet here we are. The real Campagnolo died off many years ago it seems.
@@TheEraser92 Exactly this. The irony is that I bought them for ease of maintenance at home. Front has a very slight out of true. Like F will I be bringing the wheels to an official mechanic to fleece me for a quarter turn of a couple of spokes. It’s just the asymmetrical lacing that means I’ve no idea what the original tensions were supposed to be. Absolute joke. They want to sell only to people who bring their bikes to the shop to clean the drive train. The home mechanic is their enemy now apparently.
- "Campag now only want certified campagnolo mechanics to service their groupsets and wheels." JFC - why wouldn't they want their stuff serviced by someone who knows WTF are they doing? They've provided technical seminars for decades - I attended one in 1988. They shouldn't give a s--t, just let any pimply-faced teenager in a shop apron f--k it up? Ferrari should provide service manuals so your local Jiffy-Lube can service your new SF90 Stradale too?
I think Campagnolo's designers are trying to stop people buying by making it as ugly as possible and accounts are doing their best by making it idiotically expensive. R.I.P. Campagnolo
I purchase a Scott Foil 10 with ultegra Di2 in 2017 for $4800 new. The exact same bike today (with 105 drive train) was quoted at $7500. When I asked the salesman the reason for the big increase iin price , he said : "disc brakes". The price jump is incomprehensible.
This year on my old steel frame I upgraded from my Athena 8 to the silver Centaur 11, and totally love it, the shifting is flawless and the rim braking is phenomenal. The groupset was only $1050 Canadian, you are getting great quality and beautiful looking components for a very reasonable price. I think people are far too obssessed with the new is best thing.
Did the same in 2017 and still have the same gear and brake cables working. Gone through a number of kmc chains and the campy casette 11-28 still works beautifully. Just finished a 5 week tour through Italy with a shimano 11-40 11 speed mtb casette that was perfect with 115kgs on the bike. New campy…no won’t be buying as the 11 speed works so well.
There isn't a single groupset in the world that should cost more than 200 - 300 euro's / dollars / schmeckles or what ever you want. Groupsets like this are the same cost of a nice secondhand BMW - like, seriously. Most full bikes shouldn't even cost 3500 - 5000.
@@davidm8394 Yeah, seriously - its a load of UA-camrs that will sell you this shit aswell, the only reason they have it is because they are sent it for free. Whoever produces these super overpriced components is laughing to the bank every time.
The cycling industry joined the trends in other industries, like cars and motorcycles, where the products get so complicated, and expensive, that nobody who is not a certified mechanic at a dealership can do any maintenance on them, let alone more complicated repare. I already accepted it for my car and motorcycle, but I draw the line right here: I don't ride bikes I cannot service myself. No electric group sets, no motorcycle prices to pay for a bike. I just don't buy bikes anymore, at least not new ones...
I hear ya!!! I got out of cars and motos BECAUSE I liked the simplicity of bicycles. Hoped to go to my grave never having to mess around with hydraulics or electronics...but I'm still here..messing with 'em...but it's better than the alternative!
The way the bicycling industry is headed is almost comparable to being in the family that has riders who only own Harley Davidson motorcycles. You have people that ride motorcycles then you have Harley riders. Same with bicycling. You have the average rider with a metal tube frame, rim brakes, and manual gear levers. Then you have the carbon fiber tube frames, disc brakes, electronic shifting, etc. Bicycle riding is really starting to become an elite club.
When the rider cares more about the gear than the pursuit of riding itself, they have missed the point entirely. Campag will not survive the next decade sadly.
It will just get bought by LVMH or Richemont and get distributed through the same shops that sell luxury watches. Double the price from here and they'll probably pick up some new customers.
Campagnolo's fan-base is aging. And it will take a miracle to win a younger generation! To make up for THAT deficiency, they have no choice but to make their dwindling patrons pay for it. That's it!
They just have to update Veloce and Centaur to take up larger range. 11-34 cassette, a few chainrings like 46/30, 48/32, 50/34, 52/36 and 54/40. Or, even if they continue to sell their old Veloce and Centaur, I might buy them in 2024.
@@ariffau I bought a bike at Decathlon in Berlin "Van Rysel EDR AF Centaur" that was used two days for EURO 830 - no hidden things, no disk brakes - quick to handle for an old fart & light enough. I really like the Camapgnolo Hirth-Crankset - and also these cheap Calima Wheels, but I don't do road racing anymore (since 40 years).
@@savagepro9060 remember the good days when Campagnolo had Veloce, Athena, Potenza and Centaur? No idea why they are only doing high end stuff now. 🤦♂️
I would disagree. Their last great group set was 10 speed record. The first gen 11 speed was rubbish. 12 speed record mechanical has been the most unreliable groupset I have ever used.
9 and 10 speed Chorus/Record was one of the best groupsets ever made. Ergo shifters, forged aluminium everywhere, weaved carbon and all the components could be easily disassembled. It was 9 years of absolute gold and never to be repeated. Modern Campag is injection moulded fibre reinforced polyamide and its an accountants dream come true. Shimano was offering the 7800 during this time and was also the best Dura ace groupset ever made imho. They just don’t make them like they used to!
If it’s true that low end and mid range bikes aren’t selling when compared to high end bike sales I feel like that isn’t a good sign. Doesn’t seem like a sign of a healthy market. I know at least bike brands themselves haven’t helped with how little they talk about their entry tier bikes, alloy or carbon. Most bike UA-cam channels only receive, test, and review the top end bike as well.
I've only ever ridden Campag. Began in 2014 with a Centaur-specced 10 speed, mechanical off-the-peg road bike. Over the following few years, I gradually upgraded each individual part of the groupset for Chorus 11 speed components until, a couple of years ago, I finally had a full Super Record-specced mechanical 11 speed groupset. When I upgraded my frame, I just moved all the components over. Purely for future-proofing purposes, I'm now looking to move to hydraulic disc brakes. Although I'd love to still remain part of the Campagnolo ecosystem, I could never justify spending this amount for the new Campag Super Record Wireless S, especially since I know that Ultegra and Force will be, functionally, just as good (if not better) for a fraction of the cost. The problem is now with Campag that I can't do what I did all those years ago; I can't start with, say, a Chorus wireless groupset (there isn't one), and then upgrade over time as and when I can afford to. I think you're right; at least at the moment, new Campag is the brand for those who can afford it, and, because of that, loyal but less affluent customers will be priced out of the Campag ecosystem. It's a shame, but clearly Campag have done their modelling and projections and determined that the luxury-minded customer is the one it wants to capture.
Proud owner of a 2024 Chorus 12 group set on a Superstar that I’ve wanted and saved for a while. I’m not rich, love to ride, and love to fiddle with mechanics. Been a long time fan of the brand and design. Oh, and I’m a kid of the 80s so not sure if that deems me “old and sell-by-date”. I come from a place of design and function. TBH, SRAM always feels a little like settling to me.
Almost everything from frames to clothing is ridiculously priced in the cycling industry. I was hoping that the post COVID come down would bring the industry back to reality. Theres been a small adjustment but prices are still insane. It’s on us for paying.
Yeah, as discussed in the video we wondered this too - maybe Campagnolo thinks its customers really want the groupset to say 'Super Record' on it, regardless of whether it is their 'best of the best' or not, and this helps bring it down to a price where brands will spec it on more bikes. But, as you say, that was always the pitch for Record... Cheers for watching, Simon
Yeah I had a mate that used to buy nothing but Record, Record used to be the ultegra from Campagnolo, what's wrong about that, at least Ultegra actually sells 😂 Also still no 34 option for the cassette, their target audience are getting older and with weaker knees, they should know that! All my older cycling buddies are now on 11-34 or lighter.
@@KoenMiseur Chorus used to be the Ultegra equivalent. I that is one thing that Campa got wrong. At a point they started watering down and demoting their groupsets and adding more tacky, blingy stuff and increasing prices at the top end. Although the new SR might be a good groupset, nothing about it says minimalist racing performance like SR or Record ti used to.
@@Ksen-pg7se Well ... actually, Athena was supposed to be the Ultegra equivalent at one time. Then they ditched it. Then Potenza was most certainly supposed to be the Ultegra equivalent and they tried to make a play for the OEM market, but that didn't work and they ditched Potenza. Hasn't Chorus always been priced noticeably above Ultegra? Anyway, now I guess it is the equivalent to Ultegra. But Campy enthusiasts would have treated Chorus as a half tier above Ultegra.
@@weiwenng8096 It was always Dur-ace/Record and Ultegra/Chorus. When Campa re-introduced SR it was a step above the competition/in it's own category just like it was back in the 70s and 80s. Campa was always a little more expensive so pricing is not necessarily a good comparison. What I think Campa did wrong was to put too much emphasis on SR so it lost the exclusivity and watered down the image of Record and Chorus which was top level in their own right. And at times having too many(new and often short lived) groupsets. And now, ironically, they definitely have too few.
I'm glad that companies keep pushing the boundaries like this. There's always going to be a certain person who has the means to consistently purchase the latest cutting edge tech, good for them....and the rest of cycling. It all trickles down, giving people far more bang per buck. The bikes you can buy from big box stores are shockingly good nowadays. We can thank all that R&D from years ago.
I had a campa record end of 90's. I switched to shimano for cost reason, but campa's shifting system using thumb was so much better. I regret the change ever since.
I’d argue Campag doesn’t know their customers at all. It’s the same person who still buys Lighweight Meilensteins. It’s the same (at best) or worse performance than its competitors, with substantially worse serviceability, for more money.
4300 usd is enough for me to build 2 complete bikes. I understand Campy makes premium products, but keep releasing products like this will only make itself have even smaller market share.
The bike industry had pushed bicycling into a "boutique" level sport similar or even worse to what downhill skiing had been, making it less accessible to "regular" people. The industry is literally pricing itself out of business as they can't be selling as many units yearly, as they had in the past.
Have an old steel Colnago with low end mechanical Campy on it. It's an excellent bike. Recently looking for a new low end Italian road bike built up with Campy and surprised to see the "affordable" ones all have Shimano or SRAM. Guess I won't be riding Campagnolo anymore. It's a bummer.
I got my trek emonda alr5 (1600£) the summer of the pandemic and threw on some carbon bontrager wheels before the cycling industry lost the plot and jacked up the price. To this day I still look at my bike and marvel at it, bloody brilliant piece of kit. No need to pay extortionate amounts for a bike when the low end/mid range will give you something that you can love riding.
@@sepg5084 I think without racing a EURO 600 groupset will suffice for realistic bike riders AND I bet some guys can win (with good tires) against luxury bikeriders with EURO 10,000 carbon frames every kind of race (Criteriums, Climbing, Cobblestone, a.s.o.).
I feel we are very much passed the "golden era" of cycling, pre COVID every manufacturer had an approx €1,000, aluminium 105 rim brake bike, a hop on point for the aspiring roadie. Even then it was always an expensive sport to get into. For an equivalent now you will have 105 disc for 2k ish for a bike thats half a kilo heavier. The industry has disappeared up its behind, because the demographic that road cycle are generally if the demographic of local clubs in Ireland....much like myself, middle aged men in lycra that are financially comfortable . The industry really needs to look after those entering the sport, the likes of me wont be winning anything other than the odd local legend on strava. Campags price point will always be an issue holding them back from mainstream, but that's their appeal. You won't see bikes with 4 k groupsets on many bike shop floors, is it any wonder bike retailer are hitting the wall?
I’m buying a new emonda alr with 105. I’m not racing and I like that the bike is so much cheaper than carbon. I’ll never buy something in the 3500-16000 range. That’s absurd.
Campag’s only survival strategy right now is Fulcrum wheels. They are better quality than any other wheel manufacturer and leading on some technologies. They can be specced on any groupset and the rapid red gravel wheels seem to dominate off the shelf gravel bikes.
This smells like it was paid from shitmano, of all the ridiculousness going on in the cycling industry, a high end boutique groupset from a niche brand is the least of the problems. How about the ridiculous prices of mid range bikes and the mandatory disc brakes which are expensive to run and need to be tuned every three rides or they rub. No rim brake options, downgraded bikes with stupid proprietary parts... I was looking to buy a brand new giant tcr and apart from the ridiculous price i found out that the seatpost slips because of the weird contraption they shat out to hold it in place. There are "innovations" like this all over the bike making it complete junk. Guess the best bikes came out around 2015, its all downhill from there. Your best bet is to find a used example from that era... That's what i did in the end and i am super happy and dont feel scammed
I agree! The entire bike industry has sunk to a new level of absurdity. At what point are people going to say,enough is enough. As long as people are willing to pay outrageous prices for these groupsets,manufacturers will continue to bait customers with these innovations;it takes two to tango.Sadly buyers have become pawns at the hands of the cycling industry,and some of these innovations are a slick marketing ploy that influences people to keep up with the joneses.
I’m a chorus 12 user - came on a bike I purchased in 2021 and it has been amazing. But it’s a rim brake and mechanical- so maybe I’m a Luddite, but it’s affordable and very durable. Love the gearing options - wish I saw this out and about more
Industry realized most people cannot afford to have multiple hobbies, so they had not even noticed when bicycles started to cost as much as a small displacement motorcycle.
That's why I just stick with vintage/new old stock bikes parts (occasionally get new stuff just to show support to smaller brands) but the prices are so ludicrous and unrelatable, I'd rather just create a separate ecosystem for cyclists that are normal, down to earth, not living in a separate delusional reality.
Sad that cycling has moved from a poor mans sport to a dentist sport. Even if I could ,im not spending lots of $$$ on cycling. Actually i cut down on my milage to save on wear and tear. Good part is i gained time and picked up trailrunning which is great fun and wáááy cheaper.
This is actually what many customers want. Price is the product. It is satisfying to be able to purchase stuff like this without having to think about the price or price performance ratio. That is for the plebs. For us - the plebs - this becomes aspirational. Let’s face it, 99% of hobbyists would do just fine with Shimano Tiagra.
As I understand it, the RRP for SR-S with a plain crank = Dura Ace with a power meter crank. Adding a Campag power meter crank (assuming you can swap out the crank at time of purchase) will add at least a grand to the price. The SR power meter crank itself is ~$2k. This isn't competitive price-wise with DA
Why is this so surprising? Why would they miss out on money, if they can jack up the prices and people are still buying it? Easier to reduce production and increase prices (focus on creating scarcity), than to increase production and decrease prices (focus on economy of scale). It's not just the cycling industry, it's just the commodity markets in general that are moving away from economy of scale and towards scarcity pricing. This shift in thinking has been ignited by the pandemic and it has become the new normal. Bikes, cars, computer components, audio equipment, watches... it's everywhere now.
I thought they would come out with an Ultegra-level Chorus wireless groupset with clear daylight between this and SR. I think this record groupset is too close to SR - would I pay extra $ for less versatility just to save 150g? I recently bought 12sp Chorus mechanical to get into 12sp without paying silly SR $ - I would’ve gone electronic if there had been a reasonably priced option
Top of the line cycle is about 15000 USD. Do you guys know what kind of motorcycle you can buy with that kind of money???? I love cycling but dont understand the markup. Doe s it reallt cost that much to produce these stuff??
This is absolutely ridiculous I've been riding for 45 years and the price point of the stuff is ridiculous. People are barely making their rents and mortgages oh yeah and groceries. It's a bicycle for god sakes
I'm in the process of buying endurance road bike and there are a lot of great bikes at the high end side but what's the best cost effective bike would be around $1000-$1500 range?
I still prefer the hoods on Campagnolo, I ride Chorus 12 speed rim brake and record brakes. I rode with sram force before and couldn't wait till in was worn out. the new group set looks great, but far above my pockets.
You nailed it with the whole eco system problem that campag have. They’ve been like this all the time, but are getting worse. Compare to Shimano with quality cheap groupsets such as Claris and Sora get you into the eco system, then you upgrade your bike and you want to stay with shifters you know.
For ANY brand? I was told Campagnolo waits for back-orders to pile up from the importer/distributors, then makes a batch of spares. When those are gone and the back-orders pile up again, repeats. So spares are not the easiest to find, making it smart to order some stuff you know will wear-out in advance when/if you can find it. End up not needing it? Vintage, NOS, Campagnolo spares fetch good prices on ebay, etc.
I think people misunderstand this is not for mere mortals. They are basically a boutique brand they are never going to compete with Shimano/SRAM they've made that clear. If you don't like it the don't seem to care.
I think we get that, and of course there are plenty of luxury brands out there that do really well, so maybe they can make it work. Our worry is that if there's no good entry point to the brand then as older fans stop buying new things / leave the sport, then it's not clear how new they'll capture enough new fans to replace them - especially with the brand now being out of the WorldTour. Cheers for watching, Simon
@@bikeradar in my mind, Campy is the bike equivalent of Leica. As a photographer, I can't tell you how many times I've had the discussion with people that Leica is severely overpriced for what it's offering, but yet to this day there are still middle-aged and boomer aged street photographers that have to buy the newest Leica cameras despite them offering way less and surviving on this idea of "luxury." Never mind the fact that their products do the exact same thing as the competitors, often with less options, less customization, and less pragmatism. I find it difficult to imagine any brand like that surviving long term, but I guess if you charge enough the people you've trapped into your brand loyalty might pay enough to keep you afloat. Yet another similarity that Campagnolo shares with Leica.
@@bobbyellis5006 Now you're speaking my language (i'm a photographer too!😍). I think Leica is probably a good example of what Campagnolo would like to be - you're right that buying a Leica is solely tied to this luxury mystique they've earned/manufactured over many years, and you're right they don't really offer any tangible benefits compared to mainstream camera manufacturers. AFAIK, though, Leica is fairly successful - they certainly give off that appearance anyway - and the cameras do hold high value on the used market. If Campagnolo can make that work in the cycling space then all power to them. As you say, if you can charge a fewer people more then maybe they can. Cheers for watching, Simon
Campagnolo was not always boutique... It was common to see Mirage or Veloce 8/9 speed stuff spec'd as OEM on entry and mid tier bikes 25 years ago. Campagnolo has just lost their way.
Shimano, Sram and Campagnolo all offer groupsets for roadbikes more expensive than mtb groupsets, and road cycling is basically riding a stick with wheels, over flat roads not that you need anything that fancy compared to other disciplines. There's simply no justification for the price lol. I get the shifters are more complex, not sure they are worth the $4000+ though
Big Campagnolo fan here but just not sure about the matt finish. The gloss bare carbon marbling looks lovely so why cover it up. Shimano is very much the 'Next' of components, 'every #unt has got it' so why not be a bit different, the cranks won't fall apart and the power meter will work at least:-)
Where the hell is wireless Ekar? That would make perfect sense and could give SRAM Red a run for it’s money whereas this (and Super Record) is absolutely pointless madness.
It's tricky because a Ekar Wireless would be cool, but also probably very expensive and I wonder how well it would sell as a result. I think the market for mechanical groupsets is healthier in gravel than it is in road. Cheers for watching, Simon
@@bikeradar The big issue with Ekar was that it’s fiddly to set up, electronic gears solve that issue. They also already have all the cassettes in place to make it work and it would be cheaper to produce than Record (no front derraileur, they already have the crankset and the shifters could be simpler too. I don’t see why it couldn’t be as good as, if not better than SRAM Red 1 x 13 and possibly cheaper.
@@SecwetGwiwer "The big issue with Ekar was that it’s fiddly to set up" For whom? While my gravel bike came pre-built I had to take it all apart to replace stem/bar cursed with internal routing...but it went back together just fine and works great. Had more trouble fiddling with my GRX bike!
I love Campy and ride Potenza on one of my bikes. But my opinion is they went the wrong direction. Instead of another top-tier electronic offering, they should have released a Chorus EPS.
Thank you - the matte finish is sad looking, but maybe more aerodynamic than glossy - glossy is better to clean. Shifting was best of 1978's Super Record (and the SunTour from the same year). Campagnolo just works and of course the Disc-Brakes came from Magura. What I really miss are tubular tires (19mm). Today SRAM has a leg up with shifting electronics, but the shifters are shit - as always. Ultegra front derailleur is too slow compared to Dura-Ace and the cranksets can't compare to Campagnolo - what happened to the composite parts at the Shimano cranksets (btw, the shifters don't convince me - grip on Campagnolo is always superior). Compact chainrings are more Aero, still I like 53/42 or 39 instead of 50 - more teeth mean smoother suplesse. Btw, I am happy that so called bike fitters now realize that it isn't all metrics and sticking ponits on people …
I built my entire Ti gravel bike for less than this. I have electronic group set and it’s 300 grams lighter than this one 😂 it is also a true 2x13 speed. Can’t get that from any of the top three yet. Wheeltop eds and a rotor 13s cassette. The groupset with cassette and carbon crank was $1100.
They should bring out a rim brake version. I think there would be plenty of people who would love to put it on their retro bike. And it shouldn’t be hard or expensive. If you can fit hydraulic braking in the lever you have plenty of room to make it rim brake.
I think rim brake groupsets are a dead end for the big brands these days I'm afraid. It's not about whether they can, it's about whether they think it would be profitable to do so, and I guess they've decided not to bother as there aren't any new rim brake bikes to spec it on. Cheers for watching, Simon
Sadly looks like I’m done with Campag. I had a SW Aethos with Campag SR EPS v4 with the awesome thumb shifter and WTO 45 wheels. But I just bought a SW SL8 frame and Roval CLXII wheels and for now, swapped the SR EPS v4 over… for now. I’m waiting for the DA 13 speeds (?) and when that comes, out goes the SR EPS. I’ll be sad and will miss the great looking carbon shiny crank, the great ergo brake levers (with shiny carbon) and the awesome brakes but the shift is clunky and gappy and I can’t get service where I am. Sad… Campag has moronic product managers and price point! Oh, and the Rovals are better with cross winds than the WTO 45’s.
I rode Campagnolo (Daytone/Racing-T) for years and I loved it. I might have stepped up to a new and maybe more expensive set, (Chorus), but Campagnolo lost me, first on ugly redesigns, then on facing out the affordable stuff. Well with all the electrical stuff I find my options reduced, because I don't want that. Also once you have a SRAM or Shimano equipped bike, switching to campagolo does not make a lot of sense. The switch is expensive and parts will be more expensive. Actuaslly, mechanical Centaur and Chorus sets are not expensive and would look and feel good on any bike. Well surely on mine. The 'aging in' thing is certainly true on the older stuff. And reversely, Shimano groupsets mostly look horrible after some years of use.
I ride mechanical 11 and 12 speed Campag, it is so much more robust than the equivalent from Shimano or SRAM and my 12 speed Chorus rim brake XL aero bike is under 7kg with 50mm deep carbon wheels. 5 years ago Campag was way ahead for riders who knew what they were doing, but now?
No thank you to this madness, I'm just fine with my friction only Vintage 80's lug steel bike, for me it still gets the job done nicely, several things that we older cyclist will love about older cycling gear, we can mix and match components to our hearts desire, rim brakes simply looks better, wheel sets can be built as needed for different rode and ride conditions and a lot of this older stuff is still serviceable, I don't compete so to say I'm good to go with my older gear. BTW: For myself! THIS NEW STUFF IS DAMN UGLY! All this new HIGH $$$ stuff is SUCKING the life out of cycling. Just my 2 cents.
We need a Campagnolo wireless that costs a little more expensive than a wireless L-TWOO groupset. 😂 THAT IS WHAT WE NEED! 💯 NOT ANOTHER SUPER EXPENSIVE GROUPSET! 💯
@@bikeradar No, unlikely - because Campagnolo don't want to manufacture at the cost of their employees or at the cost of the environment - and they don't have the advantge of huge state subsidies in the manufacturing sector. I've spent enough time at factories in China to know the reality of much that goes on there ... I recall being in one composites factory and seeing the composite dust hanging in the air - no one was wearing adequate PPE apart from a couple of managers (and us, as visitors). One of my colleagues asked "what happens if one of the girls (they were mostly women on the floor) gets sick from the dust?" ... the guy with us winked and said "they all have a sister". Needless to say, the company I was working with at the time, didn't buy from that factory. Low cost has a price - and fools "know the price of everything and the cost of nothing" ...
We've not had a groupset in to test yet, so this is just our initial thoughts based on the limited information we received in the press release. We'd love to be able to give an in-depth review for this and Super Record Wireless, but unfortunately it's been difficult to get press samples from Campagnolo in recent years. Thanks for watching, Simon
In the seventies when I got into cycling “Campag throughout” was THE standard. By 2000s it still had some Italian style appeal, but after 2010 they have been smashed by Shimano and SRAM. This latest nonsense is not only ridiculous but the crankset is downright ugly
It's the "Apple-fication" of the cycling world, at least at the high end: expensive, proprietary, and disposable (referring to the yearly refresh of products).
The only market that might keep Campy alive is probably luxury market in China. Clearly this is what Colnago has figured out, i.e., selling a scht product at crazy steep price and people will still buy it. But even then, they cannot figure out how to make purchasing experience smooth. If I am a crazy fan that just ignores how outdated the tech is and wants to pour money to them, I will still walk away if I also have to waste time and money for delivery. Plus, with current lower limit of 6.8kg, I don't see immediate benefit of making some parts extremely light. For more average cyclists, rich or not, weight is even a lesser problem. If you cannot pedal up a hill with a 8kg bike, no way you will be able to do it if the bike is 6kg.
Here's a faux pas for the boujeest amongst y'all: I went down from 160mm to 140mm rotors on my Red AXS groupset, but I went with the Dura-Ace RT CL900 rotors. The only bit of Shimano on a complete SRAM build, lol The Shimano rotors just look better, lol
The Shimano rotors just look better, lol. Yep, laughing at someone more concerned with how his brake rotors LOOK rather than how they work! Brembo's probably too busy to be bothered but they could probably sell a bunch of RED brake calipers with their logo on 'em if they made 'em to work with the various brands of master cylinders pushing the brake fluid into them...even if they didn't work one bit better.
The groupset has to work well and be of value. This is why I have ultegra on my Sworks sl8. I don’t find it much value to put dura ace especially that the price difference is huge for 250 grams. I also believe that a good frame, wheels and handlebar is where the differentiation happen. I will not consider compa as it is super expensive and am afraid to use seam because of some challenges related to levers and chain drop
@@oliverjacobs8594 the frame, wheels and handlebar determines the quality of the ride. The two Shimano top tier groupset are the same and will not make a difference.
I like Campagnolo because I can still get a very good mechanical rim brake groupset without having to scroll for hours through ebay to get Shimano parts. But this groupset is totally useless
I had Campy carbon set on an old Wilier. It was good, but I am happier with my Ultegra. I wouldn't touch Campy as you always have to have special tools far too pricey for an average rider. Ridiculous, I can buy a rebuilt motor for a car for that price.
What do you think of Campagnolo's new groupset?
The beginning of the end
I've been riding Campagnolo since 1994. I think your analysis is spot on, the customer base for Campy is aging out. I don't see them surviving independently for more that 10 more years or so.
You can buy super record for 1300 online, why should someone buy this.
I have a Super Record Wireless groupset and been riding it for close to a year. I still have a steel frame here with a now 20 year old Super Record on it, which is still going strong (with some TLC).
This new groupset is interesting from a price point and I do hope more people are going to pick it up.
Will I build a new bike on this groupset? Probably not, at least not in the near future.
Mechs and chainset are cheap looking to me.
Ergonomics, thumbshifter, light weight. That was Campagnolo's appeal. And then they threw it all away. I won't even mention the history and racing DNA because there is nothing left of it.
I really hope they find their way again. Liam
Nailed it my friend.
I got back into road cycling this year after about a decade away from the sport. I always loved vintage italian bikes and old school Campagnolo (I've got an 8 speed Campy groupset with Delta brakes in the garage). Coming back into the sport, I WANT to aspire to one day own a top of the line race bike with Campagnolo components just like I did a decade ago, but I just can't with the products they're putting out these days. They're impossible for me to justify, even if you gave me a blank check to buy whatever I wanted, I woulnd't end up with Campagnolo.
The thumb shifters were what kept me away. The beautiful finishes on the last couple of super records kept me curious!
Love the thumb shifters. Have 10 speed ergopower Xenon on my bike
"because cycling is a ....... money sport" - finally somebody admitting the number one problem with cycling and the market nowadays
In the end the riders matters and even TOUR-magazine admits that spending EURO 75 for tires is the biggest impact in your performance on the bicycle, nobody should compare himself to the dumbest consumers - money is still rare and hard earned (mostly).
Blame Apple, they started it all off with the iPhone. Everyone else followed suit and charged whatever they want for their products.
@@michaelcheng6469 Happened long before that. In some ways I blame Greg LeMond though he didn't want it to happen...but his success spawned multi-national industries to get involved (Coke, Nestle, etc.) bringing in North American (and other) rich consumers. Soon enough, cycling was "the new golf" complete with all the "you are what you buy" a--holes that come with it. BigTex made it even worse...and here we are.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 It's ironic that the corporations getting so big and greedy might be the reason for their undoing. This madness with prices can only last so long. After all, you don't exist without someone buying your stuff.
Unfortunately, yeah... it's really more like a motorcycle hobby now, the average midrange bike costs as much as one now anyway...
Too cheap. If im going to spend $20k on a bike, I want at least a $10k groupset, ill wait for the next tier up.
Don’t forget - Campag now only want certified campagnolo mechanics to service their groupsets and wheels. They’ve lost the plot completely. Tried to get the spoke tensions for the Hyperon ultra and they said no. Take them to an official campag mechanic. The service interval is 2,000km. Lunacy. Round spokes and cup and cone bearings. Now “exclusive” according to the accountants running [ruining] Campagnolo.
Insane. 2000km would only be about 2 months. My dt Swiss wheels (240 hubs) are 4 years old and they’re still as good as new. Never out of true and running smooth
@@Tommy31416 nothing wrong with Campagnolo cup & cone bearings, the ones in my Zondas are flawless after over 25.000 km. Round spokes are a definite step back, however, along with their "official Campagnolo mechanic" malarkey. It's as if they genuinely wanted to scare away any potential customers.
@@11robotics don’t get me wrong - I mention the spokes and hub type only to highlight that these used to be the home mechanic’s go to choices. They are incredibly easy to maintain. I have an old set of rim brake boras that I have the spoke tensions for. Campag sent them to me. My problem is their rebranding of tried and tested wheel technology as something too advanced to be maintained by anyone who hasn’t taken their certification courses. Refusing to provide the spoke tensions for the hyperons should be illegal on safety grounds. Yet here we are. The real Campagnolo died off many years ago it seems.
@@TheEraser92 Exactly this. The irony is that I bought them for ease of maintenance at home. Front has a very slight out of true. Like F will I be bringing the wheels to an official mechanic to fleece me for a quarter turn of a couple of spokes. It’s just the asymmetrical lacing that means I’ve no idea what the original tensions were supposed to be. Absolute joke. They want to sell only to people who bring their bikes to the shop to clean the drive train. The home mechanic is their enemy now apparently.
- "Campag now only want certified campagnolo mechanics to service their groupsets and wheels."
JFC - why wouldn't they want their stuff serviced by someone who knows WTF are they doing? They've provided technical seminars for decades - I attended one in 1988. They shouldn't give a s--t, just let any pimply-faced teenager in a shop apron f--k it up? Ferrari should provide service manuals so your local Jiffy-Lube can service your new SF90 Stradale too?
to stop this madness, people should stop buying these kind of products
The majority don't buy Campagnolo anyway, rather go out of their way to avoid doing so. For the fans, they'll happily cash up.
Why does this bother you Judy? If you don’t like it - don’t buy it. There are a dozen extremely high quality alternatives less expensive.
You can't dictate what they want to buy tho. So if you don't want to buy these, just don't 🤷 ezpz
I think Campagnolo's designers are trying to stop people buying by making it as ugly as possible and accounts are doing their best by making it idiotically expensive. R.I.P. Campagnolo
don't worry, they're not, Campagnolo is going under
The push of disk brakes, the over inflated prices. Bicycles costs more than a 600cc motorcycle nowadays. The bike industry is pathetic.
I purchase a Scott Foil 10 with ultegra Di2 in 2017 for $4800 new. The exact same bike today (with 105 drive train) was quoted at $7500. When I asked the salesman the reason for the big increase iin price , he said : "disc brakes". The price jump is incomprehensible.
This year on my old steel frame I upgraded from my Athena 8 to the silver Centaur 11, and totally love it, the shifting is flawless and the rim braking is phenomenal. The groupset was only $1050 Canadian, you are getting great quality and beautiful looking components for a very reasonable price. I think people are far too obssessed with the new is best thing.
Did the same in 2017 and still have the same gear and brake cables working. Gone through a number of kmc chains and the campy casette 11-28 still works beautifully. Just finished a 5 week tour through Italy with a shimano 11-40 11 speed mtb casette that was perfect with 115kgs on the bike.
New campy…no won’t be buying as the 11 speed works so well.
There isn't a single groupset in the world that should cost more than 200 - 300 euro's / dollars / schmeckles or what ever you want.
Groupsets like this are the same cost of a nice secondhand BMW - like, seriously. Most full bikes shouldn't even cost 3500 - 5000.
Agreed… the fact that this isn’t said often enough is a concern
@@davidm8394 Yeah, seriously - its a load of UA-camrs that will sell you this shit aswell, the only reason they have it is because they are sent it for free. Whoever produces these super overpriced components is laughing to the bank every time.
The cycling industry joined the trends in other industries, like cars and motorcycles, where the products get so complicated, and expensive, that nobody who is not a certified mechanic at a dealership can do any maintenance on them, let alone more complicated repare. I already accepted it for my car and motorcycle, but I draw the line right here: I don't ride bikes I cannot service myself. No electric group sets, no motorcycle prices to pay for a bike. I just don't buy bikes anymore, at least not new ones...
I hear ya!!! I got out of cars and motos BECAUSE I liked the simplicity of bicycles. Hoped to go to my grave never having to mess around with hydraulics or electronics...but I'm still here..messing with 'em...but it's better than the alternative!
I'm going down a vintage rebuild route instead of this crap
Campagnolo have seemed irrelevant to real world cycling for decades. This group set does not change anything.
It won the TdF in 2020.
@@l.d.t.6327 Wow..
@@decoherence926 yeah wow, you seem to excel in 3-letter word responses.
The way the bicycling industry is headed is almost comparable to being in the family that has riders who only own Harley Davidson motorcycles. You have people that ride motorcycles then you have Harley riders. Same with bicycling. You have the average rider with a metal tube frame, rim brakes, and manual gear levers. Then you have the carbon fiber tube frames, disc brakes, electronic shifting, etc. Bicycle riding is really starting to become an elite club.
When the rider cares more about the gear than the pursuit of riding itself, they have missed the point entirely. Campag will not survive the next decade sadly.
For the last 10 years, it's always been about how good you look at the cafe stop.
@@michaelcheng6469 Riding has become about the cafe stop and the Instagram post.
It will just get bought by LVMH or Richemont and get distributed through the same shops that sell luxury watches. Double the price from here and they'll probably pick up some new customers.
Can we go back to slim mech groupsets? Not these bricks for derailleurs ? That's art?
Agreed, and they brag about Aero and can't hide the Derailleur (even when unwired and driven with electric motors).
This is the one thing campagnola used to nail too
@@a1white Yup, their groupsets used to be beautiful.
Campagnolo's fan-base is aging. And it will take a miracle to win a younger generation!
To make up for THAT deficiency, they have no choice but to make their dwindling patrons pay for it.
That's it!
They just have to update Veloce and Centaur to take up larger range.
11-34 cassette, a few chainrings like 46/30, 48/32, 50/34, 52/36 and 54/40.
Or, even if they continue to sell their old Veloce and Centaur, I might buy them in 2024.
@@ariffau I bought a bike at Decathlon in Berlin "Van Rysel EDR AF Centaur" that was used two days for EURO 830 - no hidden things, no disk brakes - quick to handle for an old fart & light enough. I really like the Camapgnolo Hirth-Crankset - and also these cheap Calima Wheels, but I don't do road racing anymore (since 40 years).
@@ariffau if they do go along that route, I will opt for an even more monstrous 56/44 chainring set
@@savagepro9060 remember the good days when Campagnolo had Veloce, Athena, Potenza and Centaur? No idea why they are only doing high end stuff now. 🤦♂️
@@ariffau Campy is dying
Campags last good groupsets were their 2010-2014 range.
I would go back as far as their vintage 10-speed groupsets!
@@savagepro9060 Back in the days, the cheaper groupsets could do Ultra-Shifting …
I would disagree. Their last great group set was 10 speed record. The first gen 11 speed was rubbish. 12 speed record mechanical has been the most unreliable groupset I have ever used.
9 and 10 speed Chorus/Record was one of the best groupsets ever made. Ergo shifters, forged aluminium everywhere, weaved carbon and all the components could be easily disassembled. It was 9 years of absolute gold and never to be repeated. Modern Campag is injection moulded fibre reinforced polyamide and its an accountants dream come true. Shimano was offering the 7800 during this time and was also the best Dura ace groupset ever made imho. They just don’t make them like they used to!
Yep.
If it’s true that low end and mid range bikes aren’t selling when compared to high end bike sales I feel like that isn’t a good sign. Doesn’t seem like a sign of a healthy market. I know at least bike brands themselves haven’t helped with how little they talk about their entry tier bikes, alloy or carbon. Most bike UA-cam channels only receive, test, and review the top end bike as well.
Have an old bianchi with 10 speed campag veloce and it shifts like a dream despite its age. They’ve lost their way recently
You missing the point: It is not for use - it is for show and value.
US distributors aren’t really stocking Campagnolo anymore. Unfortunately they have 2-5 years before they’re gone.
I've only ever ridden Campag. Began in 2014 with a Centaur-specced 10 speed, mechanical off-the-peg road bike. Over the following few years, I gradually upgraded each individual part of the groupset for Chorus 11 speed components until, a couple of years ago, I finally had a full Super Record-specced mechanical 11 speed groupset. When I upgraded my frame, I just moved all the components over. Purely for future-proofing purposes, I'm now looking to move to hydraulic disc brakes. Although I'd love to still remain part of the Campagnolo ecosystem, I could never justify spending this amount for the new Campag Super Record Wireless S, especially since I know that Ultegra and Force will be, functionally, just as good (if not better) for a fraction of the cost. The problem is now with Campag that I can't do what I did all those years ago; I can't start with, say, a Chorus wireless groupset (there isn't one), and then upgrade over time as and when I can afford to. I think you're right; at least at the moment, new Campag is the brand for those who can afford it, and, because of that, loyal but less affluent customers will be priced out of the Campag ecosystem. It's a shame, but clearly Campag have done their modelling and projections and determined that the luxury-minded customer is the one it wants to capture.
Proud owner of a 2024 Chorus 12 group set on a Superstar that I’ve wanted and saved for a while. I’m not rich, love to ride, and love to fiddle with mechanics. Been a long time fan of the brand and design. Oh, and I’m a kid of the 80s so not sure if that deems me “old and sell-by-date”. I come from a place of design and function. TBH, SRAM always feels a little like settling to me.
This is more than I paid for ultegra wireless + 2024 giant tcr sl frame
I have never seen an electronic groupset made by Campagnolo in all the group rides I participate in here in Germany. Never!
Almost everything from frames to clothing is ridiculously priced in the cycling industry. I was hoping that the post COVID come down would bring the industry back to reality. Theres been a small adjustment but prices are still insane. It’s on us for paying.
Why didn't they just call it Campagnolo Record, that's what they used to do.
Yeah, as discussed in the video we wondered this too - maybe Campagnolo thinks its customers really want the groupset to say 'Super Record' on it, regardless of whether it is their 'best of the best' or not, and this helps bring it down to a price where brands will spec it on more bikes.
But, as you say, that was always the pitch for Record... Cheers for watching, Simon
Yeah I had a mate that used to buy nothing but Record, Record used to be the ultegra from Campagnolo, what's wrong about that, at least Ultegra actually sells 😂
Also still no 34 option for the cassette, their target audience are getting older and with weaker knees, they should know that! All my older cycling buddies are now on 11-34 or lighter.
@@KoenMiseur Chorus used to be the Ultegra equivalent. I that is one thing that Campa got wrong. At a point they started watering down and demoting their groupsets and adding more tacky, blingy stuff and increasing prices at the top end. Although the new SR might be a good groupset, nothing about it says minimalist racing performance like SR or Record ti used to.
@@Ksen-pg7se Well ... actually, Athena was supposed to be the Ultegra equivalent at one time. Then they ditched it. Then Potenza was most certainly supposed to be the Ultegra equivalent and they tried to make a play for the OEM market, but that didn't work and they ditched Potenza. Hasn't Chorus always been priced noticeably above Ultegra? Anyway, now I guess it is the equivalent to Ultegra. But Campy enthusiasts would have treated Chorus as a half tier above Ultegra.
@@weiwenng8096 It was always Dur-ace/Record and Ultegra/Chorus. When Campa re-introduced SR it was a step above the competition/in it's own category just like it was back in the 70s and 80s. Campa was always a little more expensive so pricing is not necessarily a good comparison. What I think Campa did wrong was to put too much emphasis on SR so it lost the exclusivity and watered down the image of Record and Chorus which was top level in their own right. And at times having too many(new and often short lived) groupsets. And now, ironically, they definitely have too few.
I'm glad that companies keep pushing the boundaries like this. There's always going to be a certain person who has the means to consistently purchase the latest cutting edge tech, good for them....and the rest of cycling. It all trickles down, giving people far more bang per buck. The bikes you can buy from big box stores are shockingly good nowadays. We can thank all that R&D from years ago.
I had a campa record end of 90's. I switched to shimano for cost reason, but campa's shifting system using thumb was so much better. I regret the change ever since.
I’d argue Campag doesn’t know their customers at all. It’s the same person who still buys Lighweight Meilensteins. It’s the same (at best) or worse performance than its competitors, with substantially worse serviceability, for more money.
4300 usd is enough for me to build 2 complete bikes. I understand Campy makes premium products, but keep releasing products like this will only make itself have even smaller market share.
The bike industry had pushed bicycling into a "boutique" level sport similar or even worse to what downhill skiing had been, making it less accessible to "regular" people.
The industry is literally pricing itself out of business as they can't be selling as many units yearly, as they had in the past.
that's precisely what we want. being affortable and competive (or not) is another matter
Have an old steel Colnago with low end mechanical Campy on it. It's an excellent bike. Recently looking for a new low end Italian road bike built up with Campy and surprised to see the "affordable" ones all have Shimano or SRAM. Guess I won't be riding Campagnolo anymore. It's a bummer.
Buy a frameset and have it built-up with Centaur. I have a vintage steel bike with it and I love it!
I got my trek emonda alr5 (1600£) the summer of the pandemic and threw on some carbon bontrager wheels before the cycling industry lost the plot and jacked up the price. To this day I still look at my bike and marvel at it, bloody brilliant piece of kit. No need to pay extortionate amounts for a bike when the low end/mid range will give you something that you can love riding.
i still chose ultegra lol.
been long enough to feel there is no need spend more dollar when you not even doing race.
Even when racing, the rule when I was getting into it was 'race what you can replace'. So that was Tiagra for me 😂 Liam
There's also no need for Ultegra if you don't intend to race. So what's the point?
If you don't want to buy these, just don't 🤷
@@sepg5084 reason why ultegra because it not enough for make your queen singing when she saw the Receipt, but it have those luxury.
@@sepg5084 I think without racing a EURO 600 groupset will suffice for realistic bike riders AND I bet some guys can win (with good tires) against luxury bikeriders with EURO 10,000 carbon frames every kind of race (Criteriums, Climbing, Cobblestone, a.s.o.).
That price and no THUMB SHIFTERS!!! Know your fans Campagnolo!!!
$4,299. NOPE. FU Campag
I feel we are very much passed the "golden era" of cycling, pre COVID every manufacturer had an approx €1,000, aluminium 105 rim brake bike, a hop on point for the aspiring roadie. Even then it was always an expensive sport to get into. For an equivalent now you will have 105 disc for 2k ish for a bike thats half a kilo heavier. The industry has disappeared up its behind, because the demographic that road cycle are generally if the demographic of local clubs in Ireland....much like myself, middle aged men in lycra that are financially comfortable .
The industry really needs to look after those entering the sport, the likes of me wont be winning anything other than the odd local legend on strava.
Campags price point will always be an issue holding them back from mainstream, but that's their appeal. You won't see bikes with 4 k groupsets on many bike shop floors, is it any wonder bike retailer are hitting the wall?
I’m buying a new emonda alr with 105. I’m not racing and I like that the bike is so much cheaper than carbon. I’ll never buy something in the 3500-16000 range. That’s absurd.
Full Ultegra is available for 1199gbp right now.
Provide a link. Do it for the people.
Campag’s only survival strategy right now is Fulcrum wheels. They are better quality than any other wheel manufacturer and leading on some technologies. They can be specced on any groupset and the rapid red gravel wheels seem to dominate off the shelf gravel bikes.
I hope they don't use cup-and-cone bearings?
This smells like it was paid from shitmano, of all the ridiculousness going on in the cycling industry, a high end boutique groupset from a niche brand is the least of the problems. How about the ridiculous prices of mid range bikes and the mandatory disc brakes which are expensive to run and need to be tuned every three rides or they rub. No rim brake options, downgraded bikes with stupid proprietary parts... I was looking to buy a brand new giant tcr and apart from the ridiculous price i found out that the seatpost slips because of the weird contraption they shat out to hold it in place. There are "innovations" like this all over the bike making it complete junk. Guess the best bikes came out around 2015, its all downhill from there. Your best bet is to find a used example from that era... That's what i did in the end and i am super happy and dont feel scammed
I agree! The entire bike industry has sunk to a new level of absurdity. At what point are people going to say,enough is enough. As long as people are willing to pay outrageous prices for these groupsets,manufacturers will continue to bait customers with these innovations;it takes two to tango.Sadly buyers have become pawns at the hands of the cycling industry,and some of these innovations are a slick marketing ploy that influences people to keep up with the joneses.
I’m a chorus 12 user - came on a bike I purchased in 2021 and it has been amazing. But it’s a rim brake and mechanical- so maybe I’m a Luddite, but it’s affordable and very durable. Love the gearing options - wish I saw this out and about more
And still made / available ... in rim brake, with mechanical shifting ...
Industry realized most people cannot afford to have multiple hobbies, so they had not even noticed when bicycles started to cost as much as a small displacement motorcycle.
That's why I just stick with vintage/new old stock bikes parts (occasionally get new stuff just to show support to smaller brands) but the prices are so ludicrous and unrelatable, I'd rather just create a separate ecosystem for cyclists that are normal, down to earth, not living in a separate delusional reality.
$500.00 tops. Whole bike bike Industry in for a rude awakening.
Sad that cycling has moved from a poor mans sport to a dentist sport. Even if I could ,im not spending lots of $$$ on cycling. Actually i cut down on my milage to save on wear and tear. Good part is i gained time and picked up trailrunning which is great fun and wáááy cheaper.
The real dentists have multiple bikes so they don't put on too many miles on any of them. They are the ones that came up with the formula n+1.
Actually that would be media like bikeradar. The moment they stop talking about Dura Ace, sram red an campy is the moment dentists stop buying it.
Another stupidly priced pointless product for rich mid life crisis men to stare at on their bike whilst sat outside a cafe scoffing cake
This is actually what many customers want. Price is the product. It is satisfying to be able to purchase stuff like this without having to think about the price or price performance ratio. That is for the plebs. For us - the plebs - this becomes aspirational. Let’s face it, 99% of hobbyists would do just fine with Shimano Tiagra.
Do we have enough customer surveys about the things we judge the different customers requirements?
I'm sure there are people right now in these companies asking how they can get customers onto derailleur subscriptions.
As I understand it, the RRP for SR-S with a plain crank = Dura Ace with a power meter crank. Adding a Campag power meter crank (assuming you can swap out the crank at time of purchase) will add at least a grand to the price. The SR power meter crank itself is ~$2k. This isn't competitive price-wise with DA
They are doomed.
How many of these group sets do they expect to sell?
Why is this so surprising?
Why would they miss out on money, if they can jack up the prices and people are still buying it?
Easier to reduce production and increase prices (focus on creating scarcity), than to increase production and decrease prices (focus on economy of scale).
It's not just the cycling industry, it's just the commodity markets in general that are moving away from economy of scale and towards scarcity pricing.
This shift in thinking has been ignited by the pandemic and it has become the new normal.
Bikes, cars, computer components, audio equipment, watches... it's everywhere now.
I thought they would come out with an Ultegra-level Chorus wireless groupset with clear daylight between this and SR. I think this record groupset is too close to SR - would I pay extra $ for less versatility just to save 150g? I recently bought 12sp Chorus mechanical to get into 12sp without paying silly SR $ - I would’ve gone electronic if there had been a reasonably priced option
Obviously they pay their employees $200/hr.
Top of the line cycle is about 15000 USD. Do you guys know what kind of motorcycle you can buy with that kind of money???? I love cycling but dont understand the markup. Doe s it reallt cost that much to produce these stuff??
Fuck no!!!
This is absolutely ridiculous I've been riding for 45 years and the price point of the stuff is ridiculous. People are barely making their rents and mortgages oh yeah and groceries. It's a bicycle for god sakes
I'm in the process of buying endurance road bike and there are a lot of great bikes at the high end side but what's the best cost effective bike would be around $1000-$1500 range?
in that case you should buy a used one with rim brakes (to get more bang for your buck). Used Giant, Specialized etc.
To summarize: a $4.3k polished turd
Would they have polished it, it would look nicer - they just stopped in the middle … nice finish, TOO EXPENSIVE.
@@DeadBird-wp9ofI was going to say, it's matte. Not Polished. Like a turd.
Have you ridden it, or even seen it or are you just repeating what you have heard?
@@graemefk6519 I ride EPS12 v.4. What about you?
@@larrygrossman8021 Same, plus a bike on WRL. I also have SR & RE 12v mechanical.
I still prefer the hoods on Campagnolo, I ride Chorus 12 speed rim brake and record brakes. I rode with sram force before and couldn't wait till in was worn out. the new group set looks great, but far above my pockets.
You nailed it with the whole eco system problem that campag have. They’ve been like this all the time, but are getting worse. Compare to Shimano with quality cheap groupsets such as Claris and Sora get you into the eco system, then you upgrade your bike and you want to stay with shifters you know.
I got my record groupo from the UK for under 2k , just last year! Mechanical with Disc brakes!
Shop around!
Mechanical is still a great option if your bike will take it.
Is there any guarantee that replacement parts will be available 5, 10 or 20 yrs down the road?
For ANY brand? I was told Campagnolo waits for back-orders to pile up from the importer/distributors, then makes a batch of spares. When those are gone and the back-orders pile up again, repeats. So spares are not the easiest to find, making it smart to order some stuff you know will wear-out in advance when/if you can find it. End up not needing it? Vintage, NOS, Campagnolo spares fetch good prices on ebay, etc.
I am sure Campagnolo is doing very well, in comparison to other accessible brands, which struggle on bike market including "cheap" Trek.
I think people misunderstand this is not for mere mortals. They are basically a boutique brand they are never going to compete with Shimano/SRAM they've made that clear. If you don't like it the don't seem to care.
I think we get that, and of course there are plenty of luxury brands out there that do really well, so maybe they can make it work.
Our worry is that if there's no good entry point to the brand then as older fans stop buying new things / leave the sport, then it's not clear how new they'll capture enough new fans to replace them - especially with the brand now being out of the WorldTour.
Cheers for watching, Simon
@@bikeradar in my mind, Campy is the bike equivalent of Leica. As a photographer, I can't tell you how many times I've had the discussion with people that Leica is severely overpriced for what it's offering, but yet to this day there are still middle-aged and boomer aged street photographers that have to buy the newest Leica cameras despite them offering way less and surviving on this idea of "luxury." Never mind the fact that their products do the exact same thing as the competitors, often with less options, less customization, and less pragmatism.
I find it difficult to imagine any brand like that surviving long term, but I guess if you charge enough the people you've trapped into your brand loyalty might pay enough to keep you afloat. Yet another similarity that Campagnolo shares with Leica.
@@bobbyellis5006 Now you're speaking my language (i'm a photographer too!😍). I think Leica is probably a good example of what Campagnolo would like to be - you're right that buying a Leica is solely tied to this luxury mystique they've earned/manufactured over many years, and you're right they don't really offer any tangible benefits compared to mainstream camera manufacturers.
AFAIK, though, Leica is fairly successful - they certainly give off that appearance anyway - and the cameras do hold high value on the used market.
If Campagnolo can make that work in the cycling space then all power to them. As you say, if you can charge a fewer people more then maybe they can.
Cheers for watching, Simon
Campagnolo was not always boutique... It was common to see Mirage or Veloce 8/9 speed stuff spec'd as OEM on entry and mid tier bikes 25 years ago. Campagnolo has just lost their way.
they should go broke, simple as that. rich people are not buying their stuffs either.
I'm waiting for a new wireless electronic rim brake groupset from Campy. 😂
Something for a new COlnago C68 rim brake??? www.bikeradar.com/news/colnago-c68-rim-brake-frameset
Wheeltop has an electronic system for rim brakes.
Shimano, Sram and Campagnolo all offer groupsets for roadbikes more expensive than mtb groupsets, and road cycling is basically riding a stick with wheels, over flat roads not that you need anything that fancy compared to other disciplines. There's simply no justification for the price lol. I get the shifters are more complex, not sure they are worth the $4000+ though
Big Campagnolo fan here but just not sure about the matt finish. The gloss bare carbon marbling looks lovely so why cover it up. Shimano is very much the 'Next' of components, 'every #unt has got it' so why not be a bit different, the cranks won't fall apart and the power meter will work at least:-)
Surely changes to get pro teams back (chainring sizes etc)
Pro teams are unlikely to ride anyone's second tier groupset
Possibly - we'd love to see Campagnolo back in the WorldTour! Simon
@@erich8258 maybe the same chainring size can be on the top tier super record crank ?
@@x3631 Yes, as far as we know, the new chainrings will be compatible with Super Record Wireless cranks too 👍
@@x3631 Sure, I could see that
Where the hell is wireless Ekar? That would make perfect sense and could give SRAM Red a run for it’s money whereas this (and Super Record) is absolutely pointless madness.
It's tricky because a Ekar Wireless would be cool, but also probably very expensive and I wonder how well it would sell as a result. I think the market for mechanical groupsets is healthier in gravel than it is in road. Cheers for watching, Simon
@@bikeradar The big issue with Ekar was that it’s fiddly to set up, electronic gears solve that issue. They also already have all the cassettes in place to make it work and it would be cheaper to produce than Record (no front derraileur, they already have the crankset and the shifters could be simpler too. I don’t see why it couldn’t be as good as, if not better than SRAM Red 1 x 13 and possibly cheaper.
@@SecwetGwiwer "The big issue with Ekar was that it’s fiddly to set up"
For whom? While my gravel bike came pre-built I had to take it all apart to replace stem/bar cursed with internal routing...but it went back together just fine and works great. Had more trouble fiddling with my GRX bike!
I love Campy and ride Potenza on one of my bikes. But my opinion is they went the wrong direction. Instead of another top-tier electronic offering, they should have released a Chorus EPS.
im new to cycling, is Campag like the Leica of bikes?
I think that is a pretty good comparison
Yes. Same kind of brand mystique.
Thank you - the matte finish is sad looking, but maybe more aerodynamic than glossy - glossy is better to clean. Shifting was best of 1978's Super Record (and the SunTour from the same year). Campagnolo just works and of course the Disc-Brakes came from Magura. What I really miss are tubular tires (19mm). Today SRAM has a leg up with shifting electronics, but the shifters are shit - as always. Ultegra front derailleur is too slow compared to Dura-Ace and the cranksets can't compare to Campagnolo - what happened to the composite parts at the Shimano cranksets (btw, the shifters don't convince me - grip on Campagnolo is always superior). Compact chainrings are more Aero, still I like 53/42 or 39 instead of 50 - more teeth mean smoother suplesse. Btw, I am happy that so called bike fitters now realize that it isn't all metrics and sticking ponits on people …
Ultegra and DA front der’s are the same speed.
@@thedownunderverse Might be now, but not when Shimano introduced Di2 - I hope they are improving.
"Brakes came from Magura." MAGURA is spelled T-E-K-T-R-O these days based on Campagnolo hydro brake part boxes I have.
I built my entire Ti gravel bike for less than this. I have electronic group set and it’s 300 grams lighter than this one 😂 it is also a true 2x13 speed. Can’t get that from any of the top three yet. Wheeltop eds and a rotor 13s cassette. The groupset with cassette and carbon crank was $1100.
They should bring out a rim brake version. I think there would be plenty of people who would love to put it on their retro bike. And it shouldn’t be hard or expensive. If you can fit hydraulic braking in the lever you have plenty of room to make it rim brake.
I think rim brake groupsets are a dead end for the big brands these days I'm afraid. It's not about whether they can, it's about whether they think it would be profitable to do so, and I guess they've decided not to bother as there aren't any new rim brake bikes to spec it on. Cheers for watching, Simon
@@bikeradar colnago C68 rim brake say's otherwise.
Sadly looks like I’m done with Campag. I had a SW Aethos with Campag SR EPS v4 with the awesome thumb shifter and WTO 45 wheels. But I just bought a SW SL8 frame and Roval CLXII wheels and for now, swapped the SR EPS v4 over… for now. I’m waiting for the DA 13 speeds (?) and when that comes, out goes the SR EPS. I’ll be sad and will miss the great looking carbon shiny crank, the great ergo brake levers (with shiny carbon) and the awesome brakes but the shift is clunky and gappy and I can’t get service where I am. Sad… Campag has moronic product managers and price point! Oh, and the Rovals are better with cross winds than the WTO 45’s.
If the shift is poor, it's badly set up - that's all there is to it.
You’re right. They’re a luxury brand
I rode Campagnolo (Daytone/Racing-T) for years and I loved it. I might have stepped up to a new and maybe more expensive set, (Chorus), but Campagnolo lost me, first on ugly redesigns, then on facing out the affordable stuff. Well with all the electrical stuff I find my options reduced, because I don't want that. Also once you have a SRAM or Shimano equipped bike, switching to campagolo does not make a lot of sense. The switch is expensive and parts will be more expensive.
Actuaslly, mechanical Centaur and Chorus sets are not expensive and would look and feel good on any bike. Well surely on mine.
The 'aging in' thing is certainly true on the older stuff. And reversely, Shimano groupsets mostly look horrible after some years of use.
Hey, it's got solid carbon cranks, for value.
True - more carbon for your money! 🧠
Campagnolo Super Record Wireless - S 12v 🔝🔝🔝🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
I ride mechanical 11 and 12 speed Campag, it is so much more robust than the equivalent from Shimano or SRAM and my 12 speed Chorus rim brake XL aero bike is under 7kg with 50mm deep carbon wheels. 5 years ago Campag was way ahead for riders who knew what they were doing, but now?
No thank you to this madness, I'm just fine with my friction only Vintage 80's lug steel bike, for me it still gets the job done nicely, several things that we older cyclist will love about older cycling gear, we can mix and match components to our hearts desire, rim brakes simply looks better, wheel sets can be built as needed for different rode and ride conditions and a lot of this older stuff is still serviceable, I don't compete so to say I'm good to go with my older gear.
BTW: For myself! THIS NEW STUFF IS DAMN UGLY! All this new HIGH $$$ stuff is SUCKING the life out of cycling. Just my 2 cents.
I quite agree with you, long life to friction only, triple, steel frame and rim brakes
We need a Campagnolo wireless that costs a little more expensive than a wireless L-TWOO groupset. 😂
THAT IS WHAT WE NEED! 💯 NOT ANOTHER SUPER EXPENSIVE GROUPSET! 💯
Not sure we'll ever get that! 🤣
@@bikeradar No, unlikely - because Campagnolo don't want to manufacture at the cost of their employees or at the cost of the environment - and they don't have the advantge of huge state subsidies in the manufacturing sector.
I've spent enough time at factories in China to know the reality of much that goes on there ... I recall being in one composites factory and seeing the composite dust hanging in the air - no one was wearing adequate PPE apart from a couple of managers (and us, as visitors).
One of my colleagues asked "what happens if one of the girls (they were mostly women on the floor) gets sick from the dust?" ... the guy with us winked and said "they all have a sister".
Needless to say, the company I was working with at the time, didn't buy from that factory.
Low cost has a price - and fools "know the price of everything and the cost of nothing" ...
Campagnolo Super Record - S- wireless 12v very nice 🔝🔝
For some reason? EPS is still very available. If i was going to campy up, id go for that.
Have you guys actually tested out this groupset or is this just a couch and grouch sess?
We've not had a groupset in to test yet, so this is just our initial thoughts based on the limited information we received in the press release. We'd love to be able to give an in-depth review for this and Super Record Wireless, but unfortunately it's been difficult to get press samples from Campagnolo in recent years. Thanks for watching, Simon
In the seventies when I got into cycling “Campag throughout” was THE standard. By 2000s it still had some Italian style appeal, but after 2010 they have been smashed by Shimano and SRAM. This latest nonsense is not only ridiculous but the crankset is downright ugly
It's the "Apple-fication" of the cycling world, at least at the high end: expensive, proprietary, and disposable (referring to the yearly refresh of products).
So why are the prices so high?!! It can't have anything to do with the pandemic anymore. Anyone?
Too many dentists
I've decided to buy a vintage bike and put my collection of modern secondhand parts on it to avoid this madness.
The only market that might keep Campy alive is probably luxury market in China. Clearly this is what Colnago has figured out, i.e., selling a scht product at crazy steep price and people will still buy it.
But even then, they cannot figure out how to make purchasing experience smooth. If I am a crazy fan that just ignores how outdated the tech is and wants to pour money to them, I will still walk away if I also have to waste time and money for delivery.
Plus, with current lower limit of 6.8kg, I don't see immediate benefit of making some parts extremely light. For more average cyclists, rich or not, weight is even a lesser problem. If you cannot pedal up a hill with a 8kg bike, no way you will be able to do it if the bike is 6kg.
So China is where all the Colnagos are sold? You "know" this how?
Here's a faux pas for the boujeest amongst y'all: I went down from 160mm to 140mm rotors on my Red AXS groupset, but I went with the Dura-Ace RT CL900 rotors. The only bit of Shimano on a complete SRAM build, lol
The Shimano rotors just look better, lol
I think Campagnolo's perfectly round brake rotors are the best looking, but I do like the latest Shimano ones too. Cheers for watching, Simon
The Shimano rotors just look better, lol.
Yep, laughing at someone more concerned with how his brake rotors LOOK rather than how they work! Brembo's probably too busy to be bothered but they could probably sell a bunch of RED brake calipers with their logo on 'em if they made 'em to work with the various brands of master cylinders pushing the brake fluid into them...even if they didn't work one bit better.
The groupset has to work well and be of value. This is why I have ultegra on my Sworks sl8. I don’t find it much value to put dura ace especially that the price difference is huge for 250 grams. I also believe that a good frame, wheels and handlebar is where the differentiation happen. I will not consider compa as it is super expensive and am afraid to use seam because of some challenges related to levers and chain drop
if your already spending 5k+ on a frameset ~2200 USD on Dura Ace seems reasonable.
@@oliverjacobs8594 the frame, wheels and handlebar determines the quality of the ride. The two Shimano top tier groupset are the same and will not make a difference.
err. where new chorus?
Great sales pitch
I like Campagnolo because I can still get a very good mechanical rim brake groupset without having to scroll for hours through ebay to get Shimano parts. But this groupset is totally useless
I had Campy carbon set on an old Wilier. It was good, but I am happier with my Ultegra. I wouldn't touch Campy as you always have to have special tools far too pricey for an average rider. Ridiculous, I can buy a rebuilt motor for a car for that price.
It's a great price if it includes the wheels.
It doesn't 😭
This is madness. World Tour riders don’t use Campagnolo now and they’re positioning in high-end products? Ridiculous.
You understand how sponsorship in the WT peloton works, right?