Since the day I started cycling I have found that employees at an overwhelming majority of the shops I've set foot in were incredibly arrogant. In fact, I now do all of my own mechanic work and orders parts, framsets etc. online just so I don't have to deal with these jerks.
Arrogance and rudeness abound in all the retail sectors. Biking is not the cause. People serve themselves not others and the social contract and golden rule is growing thin.
I think they've become used to people with money to burn walking in and dropping thousands of dollars without blinking; if you are not one of them, you are kind of an unperson to a bike shop employee.
wow, maybe it's you. Most, not all, of the bike shop employees I've encountered in the 100s of shops I've been in over the past 4 decades have been decent enough.
My sister is new to MTB and rode a local trail with me. She crashed and bent her derailleur. Our lbs fixed it on the spot for free and was very encouraging and non-judgmental towards her when she told her story. Before moving here I would drive 45 minutes, passing multiple shops, to get to the shop that gave me the most respect and talked to me as a fellow rider instead of a cash box.
As a bike mechanic, out of respect for myself and my fellow mechanics, I cannot do free work if I want the shop to stay open. I don't view customers as cash-boxes, but they shouldn't view me as a clubhouse buddy that's gonna fix their bike for them for a smile. It's a delicate balance but labor has a value, and anyone expecting to get some from me should have to pay.
@@adamtbabel Your shop will close, and many you work at probably already have. It's a bent derailleur, not an entire rebuild of the drivetrain. You just read a comment where a guy said he'd pass 45 minutes worth of competitors to go to the one shop that did nice things and didn't speak how you just spoke. Ignore that information at your own expense.
@@austinballard8867 rent is probably considerably lower in a spot that people are driving 45 minutes to get work done. In a major metropolitan city I need to charge for all of my work to make the math work. And another thing: I'm not trying to be smug or rude, you are reading my comment that way, I'm just trying to outline how hard it is merely to survive in the industry and doing work for free only cheapens our efforts and builds an expectation in customers that is not sustainable.
We had a small bike shop open up in my town during COVID. He obtained a few bikes, mostly just for demos. He has a program of weekend rentals so you can get an expensive bike, try it out where you want, then apply the rental cost to a purchase. His business model was set up as he would order anything that you wanted from his lines, but would only sell and assemble to order. His real business is in service, and he will fix anything you bring him. Easy to talk to fun group of guys, and they're always doing events in the area.
@@Mr_Zzzeee I'm fairly new to mtb but have come to it through bmx and into some commuter bikes. Why does it attract ego? Because brands and shops are actively seeking and serving much more attentively only the people with the highest budgets. You're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with and if most of your customers are high-earning folks (many of whom have to have an inflated sense of self to work in their professional roles) you'll sell more bikes if you appear to those folks to be similarly ego-inflated. I walked into a bike shop the other day. They have their $35 Park chain washing tool listed at $80. So they're saying we are happy to punish you if you insist on working on your own bike (like a budget-conscious person). I'm looking into moving from my hardtail to a full suspension short travel trail bike. When I told them the sort of bike I was looking for and the budget I had ($4000-5000, a perfectly reasonable budget for an adequate short travel trail bike, especially with the sales they have) they insisted I wouldn't be happy with that bike but instead that I'd only be happy with a different bike that was far beyond the use case I was asking for, an ebike, and their top spec. I was willing to spend $5000 and instead they said I'd have to spend a minimum $12000 to be happy with a bike. Unfortunately for them, I know better than that. I don't need a 160mm enduro bike. I don't want an ebike. And I don't care about gold stantions on my fork and seatpost or the lightest weight carbon components. So I've kept my $4500-ish in my pocket and will be happy to give it to someone else.
I had a problem with one rim where the tube kept blowing out. I figured there must be some kind of kink or bend in the wheel or rim. I took it to a shop, explained how I've gone through like 10 flats with that one tire. The guy mumbled "you're probably not being careful", he took the wheel out of my hand rather brusquely, inserted a tube and filled it up, and handed back to me and said "$10". So the next day I go out to ride, and within 10 feet from my house, the tire goes "pssssss" and was instantly flat.
I've been cycling since the mid-80s, and I hate how egos have grown over the years. There's always that one person on a group ride barking orders, always the one guy with the LAB71, the one guy with the bling kit, the one guy pulling up in a fully fitted Mercedes sprinter, the one guy with the $20K TT bike, the one guy carrying on about the race he won... ad infinitum. There is no humble pie on display, and such an elitest BS attitude that you can cut with a knife. It is EXTREMELY intimidating for an unseasoned rider to join a group like this - and it's sad because it's limiting the community.
It's not just that either, it's that some of these people literally are on the edge of starting fights when you run into them. I go out to ride to relax, push myself, struggle, not get into potential confrontations with other people looking to run their mouth
The last bike shop I went to couldn't be bothered to help me out. I was ready to spend $3k+ and walked out the door with no bike. I will never go back to that shop and I'm likely to get my next bike online. And I will figure out how to wrench it myself. They did this to themselves.
Even in the late 90’s/early 2000’s when I was competing a bit and working in bike shops I couldn’t STAND other cyclists. Ugh they were so insufferable! The egos and the desperate need for attention. There’s just something about cycling that attracts really annoying insecure people 😂
I've had exactly the same experiences with most of the bike shops in my area, I really wanted to find a place I could build a relationship with and continually work with but I always got treated like they were too busy to help or completely lacked the knowledge to do so. After a while of searching I ended up ordering parts and tools and learning to do my own maintenance. It's a shame really.
Same experience. Closest shop is 30 min away. And the customer service has always been horrible. Shop 2 hours away Is amazing but I can't just go there all the time. Learned to do a lot myself
the local bike shop near me is small and cramped and almost all of the bikes are up on hoists so if you want to look at one up close, it has to be taken down for you, which just increases the pressure to buy. I don't feel like I can just walk in to brouse; I am instantly approached by a sales person who wants me to make a decision in 90 seconds and I was lucky to get out of there without a bike I wasn't positive I wanted.
Riding a bicycle is a great way to exercise. Ebikes are bringing many older adults back to cycling. Cities need to do more to encourage people to ride bicycles. Safe protected bike lanes and trails are needed so adults and children can ride safely. Speak up for bicycles in your community. Bicycles make life and cities better. Ask your local transportation planner and elected officials to support more protected bike lanes and trails. Children should be riding a bicycle to school and not be driven in a minivan. Be healthier and happier. Ride a bicycle regularly.
Left the industry earlier this year to become a civil servant, after being in and out of bike shops for many years. (I am a woman in my 50s, now.) I started out at local, independent bike shop and then, another. After I heard about one of them getting bought out and now offering benefits, I thought it would be a great opportunity to go back. I was wrong. Benefits and perks, and training, were great at first, but diminished drastically after the first year. After 2 years there, less benefits and perks than I started with. We were now paying more for insurance, our discount had dwindled and no one ever got a raise. Employees started dropping like flies and half of our stores were closed. If these things aren't red flags, I don't know what is. The industry is dying and to hang on by a thread, it is trying to do more with less. It's sad, because I believe in the power of bikes, (no matter who you are, how old you are or what shape you're in). When you say you walk into a shop and the employees don't know bikes...I am pretty sure it is because they don't care. They don't work enough hours to care and they don't make enough money to care. Only the hardcore bike shop employees know anything and what they focus on is high end road and mountain bikes. They just want to sell S-Works all day and they only care about the customers interested in those. Let me tell you, the majority of the people in this world riding bikes are NOT wealthy, serious cyclists. (Don't even get me started about being a woman in the business!) ☮♥🚲 (Sorry for the long rant.)
Regards from Germany! My advices: - Let your sales People ride bikes. And encourage them to commute to work by bike. Who would buy a bike from someone that does nit ride the bike? Install showers if necessary that your employees can get refreshed after arriving if necessary… - do events for people. Training, bbq, how to find the nice routes, what is important in commuting, how to do the small repairs, etc. You could also offer an emergency service for people who got issues with their bikes on tour. You transport the bike to your shop and offer repair and while the rider is waiting for a pick up you sell him a new one. - Rent some bikes. You wanna start commuting and need a bike: here is one. Try for a week and then come back. And that does not have to be for free. - if you are in a central position, rent some safe bike parking space. Who wants to go shopping and leave the 5KDollar bike in a space where it might be stolen. - in autumn bikes need light and special care. And in spring you might check the bike again. Give a discount if people buy their bikes at your shop. - think about a local bike community club. Or if there is one, support it. Work with them together - it is a win win situation.
I don’t think you understand America. Most peoples commutes are 10-60 mins DRIVING. no one unless they are in a major city in an apartment would commute by bike to work.
We have a local bike shop that works local suppliers and a bicycle coalition to sponsor family rides. AFAICT, they're doing well, and their community involvement has encouraged my patronizing their shop instead of closer ones.
I'm a mom of 2 elementary school aged kids. I was so excited to get an electric cargo bike. Once I got it, I took a minor spill with my kids on board and that just released a flood of worry about my kids safety that I haven't been able to recover from yet. When you ride on the street, you are taking a gamble that you will not encounter a reckless, distracted driver that day. If we had a network of protected bike lanes, I would be much more likely to give my cargo bike another shot. I know, I am way too risk averse, but I don't think I'm alone in worrying about the dangers of being on the road on a bicycle with precious cargo onboard.
I was cycling in my 20s on SCARY streets without proper infrastructure. MId 30's now and I don't want to be blamed for my own death, or at best, shrugged off as a sacrifice to the traffic gods. So I walk (which is still risky).
Despite your minor spill I think hauling your kids around on the bike is a good idea. My suggestion would be to go out on the bike solo to build up your confidence and skill. Gravel / debris on the road and sleepy inattentive drivers are your enemy. With experience you will overcome these obstacles. May you and your family have many happy days on the bike.
A bicycle is my preferred way of going a city. But the bike lanes are here. Sure, the bike infrastructure is not the best in the world but it is serviceable. There has been much improvement in the last 20 years. I would not risk riding a bicycle on the road with cars in the city. City road is not a place for a bicycle.
Typical mentality of most people today. When I was a kid we used to drink from the garden hose and ride our mini-bikes, motorcycles and definitely bicycles without any helmets. Before my generation, 19 year olds were storming the beach at Normandy on D-day. We now live in a Snowflake society.
Bicycle advocacy in the US is probably the least attractive facet of the bike industry, most likely because it isn’t sexy, the main focus for most commuters and similar users is on utility, function and budget, so there’s usually not much money to be made. So the industry doesn’t generally care, IMHO, and I’ve been told as much to my face. You want bike lanes in your city? You’ll need to get involved. Find a local club or advocacy group, or maybe you’ll need to ask around through social media and IRL and cook up your own group. Key things are persistence, determination and endurance, identifying the pertinent issues, and making your voice heard. None of that stuff can do it by itself. The challenges are getting burned out, members flaking, the bureaucracy and attitudes, and the temptation to keep every group meeting from turning into beer and pizza night instead of getting stuff done. You want bike lanes - this bike advocacy thing, she’s a lotta work. There’s no other way around it if that’s what you want.
I live in a bike friendly city with tons of bike commuters, but shops don't really sell cheap commuter bikes, so we're all stuck riding used ones that we feel comfortable locking up instead of new ones that aren't $1k plus.
I noticed that US bicycle culture treats bicycles as sport, so there is no place for commuter city bikes. I live in Krakow, Poland, whose bicycle infrastructure has improved immensely in the last 20 years. You would see city bikes on the lanes fairly often and you would have no problems buying one. And a decent city bike is for life. I bought a used Batavus city bike for the equivalent of maybe 150 dollars, which at the time I bought it was already around 30 years old LOL. It was litterally the best purchase of my life. I ve been riding on it for 5 years now, works like a charm. I am planning to buy another bike for long trips, but this city bike is a keeper.
I recently build 1k+ in retail bike for 600. All new parts - frame, forks, brakes, wheels, nexus 8 speed hub, gates carbon drive, ect. Retailers operate with huge profit margin. You can figure out rest.
We valued your input when you were with Tern and we left that brand about the same time that you did, not because it wasn't a great product but it just didn't have a niche in our market. We are an electric bicycle shop, we do not carry analog bicycles and we are working hard to build a supportive community for people who use their ebikes for fun, recreations, exercise and more practical considerations like running errands, doing a grocery shop or commuting to and from work. It's been 6 years and we still find it a bit of challenge but compared to the LBS's in our area who specialize in analog bicycles, we are doing very well.
I definitely take note of how a bike shop treats me. I do a lot of research and am enthusastic about my bike. Whether a person engages with me when I say what I'm working on, or stares blankly, definitely impacts how comfortable I feel going back.
For many years I couldn't get a job at any of the bike shops where I lived in northern Michigan. All the kids who worked at them, didn't know anything about bikes. In my late 20's, I moved to a big Ohio city and finally got a job at a bike shop. Then I ran into all the problems your describing here. I started volunteering at local nonprofit bike shops, and found that they weren't interested in promoting bikes, but maintaining their "Clique". I've also found that, it's not What you know that matters most, but WHO you know that matters. Unfortunately I've never known the right people. When ever I go into a bike shop, I buy a part and leave. I do all my own repair work. Thank you.
Been living car free for more than 25 years. Went on a group ride tonight with a friend who runs a bicycle advocacy group in Thunder Bay Ontario. fun ride, good people. Not one person from any of the local bikes shops to be seen. Bike shops need more grassroots community involvement.
Honestly the group that you rode with is most likely not the client base of your local bike shops! I’ve been through this in the motorcycle business. The enthusiast clubs sure have their hands out for freebies from local dealers but their members will do anything that they can to avoid buying from a local dealer. The best thing a bike shop can do is treat everyone that comes through the front door or service department with enthusiasm, respect and expertise!
Counterpoint: a lot of them are working during group ride season/times. I wish I could go on more group rides but it just doesn't work out with my schedule.
The quality of bicycle parking both at home - specifically in regulated housing like apartments - but also in the public realm has simply not kept up with what's needed based on both the high value of useful bikes and the need for bikes to be reliable daily drivers. In California there is a process to update building codes inclusive of higher quality bicycle parking, but it doesn't include existing apartments. In California, and as far as I know in all states that offer an e-bike incentive, there's no component that supports better bike parking for these bikes... A family can get a couple thousand dollars for an e-bike, but they live on the second floor and there's no secure parking at ground level. What are they supposed to do with a bike that weighs 85 lbs?
Shop owner- I don’t sell bikes. Only service, parts and do a lot of community engagement. Not selling bikes allows me to have fast turn around, more time to focus on client needs and demands and engagement in local non corporate group rides allows me to do free tune ups/safety checks and keep people rolling. Keeping things cheap allows people to access services and support they can’t afford at the corporate owned stores. Not turning down Walmart bikes and doing online bike bought assembly builds keeps people coming back where the big stores deny them. It’s easy. Staying relevant means staying in touch with the communities that surround you, not just the ones who can easily afford a $1k bike.
100% agree with all your points made. There is definitely a level degree of arrogance when I walk into a bike specific shop And the knowledge they convey. My experience is what happened After buying my dream bike. I felt Like my concerns were discarded because I have already purchased the bike and they just wanted me out the door. After purchasing my dream bike. I requested to have my bike personally Set up suspension wise for my weight and riding style. They responded with “ Go online and you can find You’re basic settings”! I was met with more resistance to my request. This experience just put a large dark cloud when knowing I’m buying my dream bike. I ended up working at a bike shop Part-time since then, and I treat every customer with a level of respect, they deserve. And I’m definitely not afraid to say., I don’t know, but I can find somebody else who’s more knowledgable. Most bike shops have their blinders on one they think just because they’re selling namebrand bikes. They are immune to the fallout. Cheers
Great video! The bike shop is the brand. I'll buy whatever my local bike shop sells and support. That's what I've been doing for 40+ years. I don't trust Shimano or Trek or ... I trust the mechanic who help me select, assembled and will repair my bike, sell me the next, etc.
It's not that I don't trust Shimano or Trek, it's that I trust that every year, their quality gets lower while their prices get higher. If I could have a mid-range quality bicycle out of a time machine from the late 1980s or early 1990s, I'd be a much happier rider.
I have a “one man bike shop.” That makes a lot of aspects of running a bike shop easier than a staffed bike shop, such as quality control and giving myself executive power to say “I don’t know.” Also, I only do service. No new bike sales. Thus, shelf-life of bikes is not an issue. I know what parts move and the cost of having those in stock isn’t as significant. Alas, the service repair shop only feeds me and my family. No real room to scale/grow.
Is that because the community isn’t large enough to support another mechanic in your shop or the difficulty to find another mechanic or something else?
@@Doornail It is a tiny 444 sq. ft. cottage home in a residential area. Not only do I not want another bike mechanic, the city of Boulder only allows for one employee in home based businesses and that employee must live there.
The logistics involved in running any small business can be daunting. Bike shop logistics of ordering, inventory, billing, dealing with employees and "high expectation" customers, etc. are immense challenges! The bike shops near me do a solid job of assisting customers relevant to what they sell and happy to recommend going elsewhere (either higher-end or basic consumer grade) when there is misalignment with what the customer seeks. What irritates me most about the industry as a whole is the constant changing of standards... 135mm, 142x12, Boost, SuperBoost; a dizzying array of 10/11/12 speed "cable" shift and now electronic 32/28/24 spoke alloy and carbon wheels, and finally the frame geometry terms: XC, Mountain, Trail, Downhill, Down Country, E-bikes and bloody no pedal-assist scooters/mopeds, ...
THANK YOU!!! …for articulating what I’ve been feeling lately. I work in a local bike shop and I’m growing increasingly frustrated with the very same issues you mentioned here. The shop I work for is big enough that I’ve been fully focused on the back-end and it frustrates me that we don’t offer a better experience on the customer-facing side, luckily, we’ve started conversations and we will focus on changing that. Of course many old-timers look at me weird when I express my thoughts, so watching your video gives me hope.
I personally really appreciate online retailers with their solid parts availability and my own tools for wrenching on my own bikes the way I want it done.
Access to safe riding areas is foremost. Then community building.. rides that’s aren’t competitions. Bring back the shops with espresso/ beer that encourage people to hang out and talk with each other. It’s such a rare experience these days.. I think a bike show would be pretty awesome. Locals get together on corners and lots for car shows where they display their cars, why not bikes? I’d go to that!
@@thedownunderverseif they have them locally I don’t know about them.. I know they have big ones on the other side of the country, but that’s not really helpful to my local bike shops.
The problem I see with the local bike shops is that they are catering mostly to the MAMIL persona - middle aged dudes with a tonne of money to spend on a fancy bike and gear and they are here to drop dollars. But when I as a woman who mostly bike commute go in, I can never find anything that I want, let alone in my price range. For example, if I'm getting a new helmet, I can probably afford something in the $35-80 range, but at my now closed LBS, it was more like $80-$200, way beyond my budget. Another thing is that most of the stock are not meant for family or bike commuting. I've been trying to find an aluminum front rack (!!) to go on my little bike for 5+ years and not really succeeding. A front rack is so key because if you have a child seat, you still want something at the front to hold your stuff so your back is not sweaty. Most of the racks are black, if it's even available, it will ruin the esthetic of my bike, and it probably doesn't even fit properly to my bike. It's small things like that that makes a huge difference to customers. Or what about a waterproof rain poncho for cycling? The only 'good' one is the one from Decathlon in Europe. Therefore, whenever I go to Europe, I also try to stock up on my bike commuting accessories. The Netherlands, and France has good selection vs price and I even get it duty free when I bring it home. It seems to be the only way until the shops in North America figure this out and start expanding ideal client profile.
So you think shops should spend their very limited funds to buy inventory for customers that don't exist? The cycling culture that exists in Europe does not exist in the US. Shops stock the products that their customers want to buy. Most of those customers would not even consider a $35 helmet. Most who will buy that helmet will never walk into a bike shop. A small percentage of riders in the US use their bikes for transportation. What you are asking is the equivalent of asking a Kia dealer to stock racing components appropriate for NASCAR. In most cases and places shops are trying to take care of too many categories of customers out of economics. Ideally we would have enough riders that Shops could specifically take care of certain types of riders. Until then niche customers will not be well served
Same in the UK - the vast majority of bike shops are sport oriented, there's barely anything for utility cycling. The difference between Dutch and British bike shops is insane.
@@joearnold3594 But a majority of cyclists in the USA are casual recreational cyclists with their dept store bike or maybe $700 Treks. They will be very happy with a cheaper non-brand helmet as long as it didn't look goofy. I've had $80 Giros, but my current helmet was $30 Bell from Big 5 sporting goods. No fit dial or MIPs but luckily it fit perfectly. There is always a place for a value option among all the fancier stuff.
I think an unwillingness to accept, let alone embrace, e-bikes is a common oversight. So much of what they know easily translates to eBikes. Plus, most e-bikes are bought by casual riders that NEED local service. I’m a senior ebiker who is enjoying biking again and wish my local bike shop would help instead of sneer.
@@snuffles7314 why I use both if Im running late for work witch is rare I use my Ebike I also use it for grocery shopping any other time Im riding my gravel bike
Thoughtful piece. Thank you. I bought my first road bike 12+ years ago from the dominant LBS in my city here in Orlando, FL. The woman who sold me the bike was terrific. That said, subsequent experiences there gave me a bit of a "bro-vibe". I've since bought 2 more of the same brand bikes, one from the LBS here, and another from a LBS in MD. Purchase experiences were okay. I've done bike fits in one of these shops locally, and in a 3rd shop in MD. Owner of the 3rd shop in MD was awesome--not a lick of arrogance, just knowledgable and helpful. All that said, none of these shops offer recumbents. The implicit message is, "Well, now that you are older, time for you to consider an E-bike." To heck with that! At 65 I'm entirely capable of powering myself. This is not to say I don't appreciate or might not get an E-Bike a few years from now. So, over the last couple of years, I researched and found a LBS 109 miles away where the owner spent lots of time over months before the sale and then at the sale. My 2-wheel recumbent is a blast to ride though there has been a learning curve. It is so much easier on my back and other precious parts. And, when I'm done, I feel great! No more BPS (Bent Pretzel Syndrome). Yes to all your points and, look into leading the public in understanding the benefits of recumbents.
The bike shops that are doing well is almost always the case of creating community, also trying to focus on one or two type of cycling! Those bugs stores that do a bit of everything get kinda busy in the summer or whatever the bike season is in the town but after that, no more projects to keep the shop busy enough! I visit some fantastic shops. Great video
Glad I’ve stepped away from bicycle retail, it’s always upsetting when you feel your the only person caring in a shop , but I guess it helps when former customers still message you about their bike questions I continue to support kids on bikes when I can to hopefully help get some more butts on bikes
As a thirty plus year bike industry worker I feel lucky that the two shops I’ve worked at foster all of the ideas,customer service, knowledge and professionalism you emphasize here. I also feel that as you said empowering sales staff that if they don’t know a specific bikes features be honest and then , get curious, Al questions and help the answers be found. Thanks for the video and for emphasizing how fly by night the bike bike industry can be.
As a customer of both mailorder and LBS components and bikes I think you hit the nail on the head in that you can't have a biking culture/community without a good LBS, at the same time, you can't have a thriving a LBS without a great community. There is a LBS not far from my home where I recently purchased a class 1 ebike for my wife. One hand finanace options was great but when it came down to making sure my wife was safe, they didn't suggest to purchase a helmet, which they had 50% off. They also didn't go over basic maintenance of the bike and didn't offer a free initial adjustment after so many months of initual use. We're happy with the purchase, but they came up short when it came to maintenance, safety, and offering a free adjustment. This bike shop I'm sure has your regulars, infact I've seen quite a few of the same people there on most of my visits, I'm sure their friends of store employees so it's probably a given that when of these "friends" purchases a bike, those experienced bikers (mountain and rode) know the routine and probably work on their own bikes. We're not one of them, so don't treat us like we know what were doing espically since this is her first ebike. I was about to put this 60lb ebike on my hitch bike rack, good thing I looked up the weight rating otherwise it could have been in pieces all over the road while trying to drive it home on a rack that wasn't adequate. They should ask how you plan to transport this rather heavy bike home?" Anyway, some of the LBS in my neck of the woods have been great, while others, need to go back and evaluate where they're coming up short in terms of sales, customer service, bike knowledge, and what to ask the buyer of every bike purchase regardless if it is a $300 or $3000 bike. Two of the last 3 bike purchases I've made have been mailorder and I've been happy with them, but I also have not had the misfortune of having to warranty parts or frame, so I can't relate to those who have had to wait months to have a replacement part or frame sent back to them. We're out of the pandemic, so manufacturing of surplus parts and frames should not be an issue, though I've heard of some nightmare warranty wait times. I think you bring up some very good points that LBS's and mailorder companies alike should be paying attention to these concerns.
Some of the issues you identifed are because the bike shop is a hobby for the owner and employees and not a business. There are successful bike shops but they require committed owners and employees. Very difficult business - hours are huge - but you have to love it.
I think the pandemic affected so much of this, from obvious supply/demand issues, to competitive rates/wages for entry level workers, to shops sticking to entry level bread and butter bikes or specializing in niche boutique brands, to many brands pivoting to direct-to-consumer, to the actual price of bikes inflating and then inevitably being fire sold when inventory peaks. It's a bummer. I feel like before the pandemic, local shops would have frequent MTB group rides or parking lot parties with a long jump competition or a fun game of foot down. I don't see as much of that anymore.
I feel grateful that my city (Calgary, Canada) has BikeBike. When I found them it was a breath of fresh air- no judgement about my body size, gender, or experience riding a bike. They’re also super passionate about what they carry in store. 10/10.
What the actual F kind of bike shops have you been going to that make this seem like some kind of weirdo safe space anomaly for you? Your body type, gender and experience only matter in cycling when you are trying to keep up with faster riders. This sport is about natural selection by design so get used to that. But buying the bike shouldn’t be.
Wow! You nailed it so many times. I live in the South Carolina upstate. There are many LBS in my area that I like and try to support, but when I want the best knowledge, experience, skill and attitude, I bypass them all and drive over an hour to get to Bike Worx in Spartanburg, SC. Great vid. Awesome!😊
You nailed it. I raced in the late 80's and 90's and commuted for 30. The bike community, from riders to the shops, then and now are indiscernable on many levels. Coming from Texas and relocating to Alaska, I recently walked into a bike shop (one of only a small few) to start getting back into it as a commuter. Not once was I asked If I needed help or was acknowledged. This would have never happened back then. Theres not enough room to explain all the dynamics. The culture has changed while the bicycles have not. High end compoenets were always expensive and it was always a pride to ride around on the latest C-Record or Dura Ace group but there was also a culture of inclusion that is a sense of humanity that is lost in this industry now.
You’re speaking my language! We need more community in bike shops. Also more focus on the used market. Better customer service and better service programs. Big brands can be great, but they have taken the control out of the hands of the stores. Stores need to take it back. I dream of opening a bike shop. I just can’t imagine doing it with the big brands breathing down my neck all the time.
Super video. I'm sure your points will ring true with those who watched. I'm m a road cyclist and have actually been a competitive sailor all my like making the switch to cycling at 38. I feel have suffered a slow decline here in New Zealand over the last 40 years, Perhaps people don't have the free time they use to or maybe we are just not as organised in this digital era. New bike kit is very expensive now so I buy used and online. Going to my local bike shops in our City is not an enjoyable experience for me and it maybe just me! It's tough to please all the different people that are considering a purchase but being able to read a customer and go above and beyond with service is a dying art. But being at the start/ end of a major rail trail I see thousands of cyclist go past my lounge window each summer and with the advent of Ebikes gives me a glimmer of hope for the industry. I love cycling nearly as much as sailboat racing!!
For those of us in smaller communities, our local bike shops, which were already small to begin with, now suffer even more from poor selection, low inventory levels on the selection they do have, slow service due to lack of good labor, and high prices. You put all of those together, and there quickly comes a point where shopping your LBS becomes more an act of charity than anything else. It's very sad, because I can remember when it wasn't that way.
LBSs should be working with local planning/officials to raise awareness and support biking for transportation. Specifically e-biking for transportation is something LBS have never understood or supported in most cases. They see themselves as personal sales to sports riders, but Canyon and DTC from the majors is unwinding that. So to be relevant, you need to be out in front in your community, working to support or even form a bike coalition and all of the bike forward initiatives that brings with it.
But these LBS cannot do this on their own. These major brands SHOULD DEFINITELY be supporting efforts like you describe but they don't do that. Major brands seem to have zero interest in promoting "biking for transportation" on a local or national level. They do not seem to have the foresight to see that the "biking for transportation" market could explode with the right kind of support and nurturing. After all the market for that could be MUCH larger than this focus on expensive road or gravel bikes that these brands seem to be exclusively focusing on now.
I've been in the bike industry since the 80's. In most areas I see they don't support cycling like group rides on Sundays when the shop is closed!!!! Ranges from B through D rides plus small races like a 10k TT but only stock bikes only. That's the way shops did it in the 80-90's !!! Obviously the owners don't ride. I see that in NM !!!
@@jensenhealey907efi the LBS can certainly do this on their own. this sort of work is done locally. i know some shops which have devoted resources to local activism dedicated to safe cycling. what it takes is for the shop owner to get involved in the local organizations that advocate for bike lanes and safe streets.
I agree I Live in San Marcos(North County SD) and have been car free for 1 year. We are a family of 6. I wish everyone had more information for families who want to bike for transportation, instead of just pamphlets for the class of ebikes.. I have asked for bike valet and have been laughed at by some community members.
The shops need to be more like propel. It was so relax to work with them and they view a bike as fun and transportation. Not as trying to be an elite cyclist and looking down on people for asking questions. And they were so knowledgeable!
good luck affording their bikes though. theres just nowt for folk who cant afford a car. so much so that folk who can just afford a car will buy a car.
I have been cycling as an adult since 1972. Our local bike shop in Tampa had a van with roof racks and bike related stickers all over it. We went to tours and races from Coconut Grove to Mount Dora in that van, we met at the store for rides and.... E.J. the owner, was at every bike club meeting and... never took off his rear view mirror from his glasses.
Wow. You nailed it. And you did it without anger, rancor, or cynicism. You are correct about the state of affairs in bike shops. I can’t tell you the number of times that I have gone in and known more about the product than the guy working there. Sure, I’m autistic and bikes are my thing; but they should know more than me. It’s what they do. Bike shops need to become more approachable. That means through attitude - making people feel welcome - and through pricing. The folks who walk into an LBS wanting “just a bike” need product that works and is affordable. That’s the hole in the market.
Customers know more than most clerks in lots of businesses. What customers often think is the most important info often really isn’t. I sold light aircraft. If detailed info on the planes were actually very important, Cessna wouldn’t be selling their deathtraps for the last twenty years. Also, the people skills to handle buyers are generally WAY more important overall than product knowledge on each and every model. If something is very important to a customer, you simply look it up for them, but generally the difference in specs is often misleading or imperceptible to most customers while other features can be incredibly important and particular to a given user (like ergonomics).
@@nunyabidness3075 I work in a large hardware store. I have broad general knowledge on hundreds of product categories and deep knowledge in half a dozen or so, but sometimes I still have to tell customers "I don't know, let me get someone who knows more", or if there's no one else, "let's find out together". Sometimes I get customers who know exactly what they want and just want to know if we carry it, but more often than not people ask for help because they _don't_ know what they need, and they only have a general idea of the problem they're trying to solve. Most of the time, I'm able to point them in the right direction even though I'm not an expert. I guess I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say, but bike shop staff should know enough to be able to solve customers' problems, even if they're not total experts in that particular niche. Otherwise, what's the point?
I just had a bike shop come and pick my e bike and then delivered it after repair and tune up - a huge help ! I ride my ebike30 mile a day commute. I had to use my old /spare bike during the repair . The service by Propel located in Brooklyn . They were very thorough and the bike is running like it is brand new. They took the time to ride the bike and call me to make sure that the problem was corrected. Superb service and great e bike coaching. There are some great bike shops.
Sales and services in general are atrocious across most industries in the U.S. It’s why online sales are thriving and the DIY business continues booming. The problems you describe are even worse with car dealers where sales staff are truly uninformed and uncaring because the turnover is so extremely high. There’s also a shortage of capable, experienced mechanics. However, I did come across a decent local bike shop recently from whom we bought 2 Yamaha e-bikes. The shop keeper spent time with me and my wife for test rides and provided advice. I could have saved a few hundred dollars on shipping and sales tax by ordering online, but this LBS had earned the sale. I also wanted to develop a relationship with this shop for my future services needs. We’ll see if my faith was misplaced (Yelp reviews are polarizingly mixed).
With the way the economy is worsening, more people are going to be inclined to look for cheaper transportation alternatives. Bike shops should really be leaning into affordable commuter and utility bikes. In this day and age, the way you stand out and remain competitive is by adding value. That means having a welcoming atmosphere, and a great customer service experience.
been looking at them today. your lucky if you can find one thst doesnt look like it will break for less than 4k pounds. 2k will get you something substandard. they are all electric which bumps the price up too.
I'm in Ireland so not speaking for North America. I just took delivery of my first e-bike at the end of July. I spent several months going into a lot of different bike shops in a 50 km radius checking out what was available beforehand. I'm 2 metres tall (over 6'6) and 120 kg so I knew I was going to be limited to a smaller selection of what was available and it would probably have to be a special order too. Which is exactly how it turned out to be. I wanted what I described as an all round commuter cargo bike lite workhorse (but not an actual cargo bike) and showed photos and videos of what I was doing with my existing ordinary hybrid to warrant that description. A picture really is worth a thousand words sometimes. I still regularly got directed to the e-road bike and e-mtb sections although that was absolutely what I did not want. Oddly enough for whatever reasons, there seemed to be a pretty large selection of e-road bikes in extra large frame sizes available even though I didn't want one. I rarely saw family orientated or utilitarian bikes at all in these shops apart from kids bikes. And 80% of them who said they'd look into availability for something to suit me never made contact again. They appear to be selling almost exclusively expensive road or mtb bikes for the sport and recreational market or cheap crappy pretend versions of road or mtb bikes for whatever market that is. I ended up buying from a shop that persuaded me to buy a cheaper model with a less sophisticated but more durable and cheaper to repair drive system. I'm happy with being persuaded now. And I had to wait several months for the manufacturer to actually make more 62 cm XL frames but that wasn't a problem. But absolutely, most bike shops are not showing they are very interested in the utilitarian or family end of the market and are missing out on attracting a market that's ready to grow rapidly with additional encouragement.
My LBS has been so good my whole life that I feel like I’m walking into a family members place. No judgement on the type of bikes I bring them, and most of the time they’ll fix a -5 minute problem with no cost because they know I’ll DIY the next time that problem happens. It helps that I show up during non busy hours, so keep that in mind. good content!
I'd come to a family bike event. The closest thing to a big casual ride we've had around here was the Tour de Fat a number of year ago. It could be good to do family bike rides to events were streets are closed to cars like Durham's Centerfest, etc.
In a town I used to live in there were 5 or 6 bike shops. Each shop held group rides, mostly mtb, on a different day of the week, and the owners and employees of each shop rode in all the group rides and were all friends. The shops themselves seemingly (probably organically) worked together to develop their own niche markets, one specialized for roadies and xc racers, one for hipsters and crustpunks (steel rigid ss), one for mtb's, and one as an all-around shop. If you asked any of them "what kind of mtb should I get?", their responses usually included an invite to the group rides to see what others in the area were riding. It was a great time to ride bikes. The only shop which didn't do anything with the others was the Trek dealer which is no longer in business.
It's hard when local planners and officials WANT people to depend on cars so they keep bike commuting dangerous by keeping the car dependent infrastructure.
@@aygwm Is it really though? When the authorities WANT people to depend on cars, even when bike commuting will make everything much cheaper, there's a reason for that, and that reason is that they're bought by the gasoline and automobile industry, they're working for them against us.
I think it would be helpful to name some communities you’re referring to. In every mountain town in the US, the opposite it true: very supportive of bikes of all types as a vital part of the transportation network.
2:18: All of this is the same in also every consumer retail industry today and is never going to get better. Businesses are forced to hire any warm bodies because the labor market is so tight. Part of this is due to the disincentives to work which were exacerbated during the pandemic. And proper "training" is not worth the time for businesses and owners because the majority of new hires leave on their own volition within days or months. Having "specialists" is not financially viable because most shops are struggling to even cover the labor costs of a barebones floor staffing model.
I recently bought a new bike (trying transition back to a non assist bike after riding an ebike for 4 years, crazy, right?) I narrowed my choices down by the knowledge and enthusiasm the LBS staff had for the choice I was considering. I bought from the most knowledgeable shop that had a concern for the goals I was setting for this purchase and who engaged and challenged me to think about my choices. In one big brand shop, I felt I was walking on to a car lot.
Well said. I worked in my LBS downunder in central New Zealand as Service Manager - Head Mechanic and I got sick and tired of one of the largest name brands selling their E - MTB’s with their own engines and having to deal with Local E-Mountain Bike riders who were one to their third or fifth new engine and the bike brand telling me all the time that their e-bike engines were the best on the market. I pointed out to them that the other brands that we sold, that there e-bike engines would last two or three years and not three or four months at a time! And in the end, the customers of walk away looking for a more reliable bike brand and only in the late 2021. Would they start saying yes we had a problem and we have now sorting it. They thought that we as a bike shop will working for them. I did not understand that we were working for the Customer not the bike brand.
Big egos and bad customer service are my very quick indictors of whether a shop is worth bothering with. I’m lucky enough to have several shops fairly close to me, but the closest two are like chalk and cheese. One is a bigger shop with some premium brands for both road and MTB and any time I’ve walked in there I’ve been made to feel like they’re doing me a favour by even looking in my direction, let alone serve me unless I express an interest in spending €10k on whatever bike they have in stock (needless to say I don’t go there anymore). The second shop is much smaller, has no premium brands but they are always happy to see you, always want to help you find a solution to whatever problem you have, have a great mechanic and great pricing. Guess where I go locally now! I’m also lucky enough to have some cargo bike specific shops near-ish. One of them went out of their way to have some Larry vs Harry posters shipped from another shop in a different city at no extra cost to me, next day delivery and all for the listed in-shop price of the posters. Another cargo shop hosts races at bike shows and festivals. They are very welcoming of new riders to the cargo space, often lending bikes for races as well as also hosting community rides. If your focus isn’t good customer service (regardless of whether that’s for “just” an inner tube sale or a whole new bike), then I don’t know why you’d open a bike shop. I know a lot of folk who try new shops on smaller purchases first but then go back to buy bikes if they’ve had a good experience. I’m not saying you have to go out of your way to build a cycling community around your shop, but if you’re not willing to listen to your customer and disregard your own preferences in favour of what your customer actually needs, then don’t bother opening in the first place!
The ego LBS is definitely in our area, at the same time I'm fortunate enough that I have choices. There must be enough ego driven people or people that are friends with these types of LBS that they can stay open. An employee's willingness to talk to a customer shouldn't be based on the price what what the customer is spending on a new bike or parts. Approach every customer the same in regard to service regarless if they are purchasing a Rock Hopper or SWorks.
@@mgarcia8540 Yes, I totally agree! Every customer deserves the same level of care and attention regardless of the value of the sale. Every customer has their own needs and if that need is an entry level bike then it's no less valid than someone looking for the latest and greatest.
Wow! Thank for this. Lots of really good info to sort through. I was trained in hospitality, but have worked in many bike shops over my lifetime. Definitely most LBS, need a basic attitude check PLUS proper customer service training. I’ve spent the last year growing a small (e-bike) repair shop directed at people who bought directly from a brand. Most of them choose D2C because of the upfront price (but not really understanding the long term maintenance aspects) and because the LBS looked down at them at some point in their journey towards cycling. Push bike, e-bike, trike, if people are pedaling, I want to help!
I have had a few very bad experiences and had a shop cause a lot of damage and I had to learn to fix the 5 things they broke. I don’t want to go to any of the 6 shops in my area. Shameful
I had to educate my LBS on how to tune up and care for comfort bikes. They neglected the front fork shocks and the the seat stem shock with adjustment and lubrication. The shop ended up firing several employees and the manager and I now have a positive relationship. I give him gifts at Christmas and other times of the year, to let him know he is valuable a part of my world. I now ride more often with more comfort and safety. As an old guy I made this local bike shop better than what they were and I am proud to have done so!
I opened my shop in 1993. I needed a few BBs, some brake pads, a box of tools, and a J&B account with their 120 pg catalog. Today their catalog has 86 pages of tires, 7 pages of disc pads, 4 pages of floor pumps and 35 pages of cranks. Wtf
yup, you nailed it. the fragmentation of product has broken the market. it's not economically viable, or able to replicate across thousands of small businesses. it's a collective action problem, that toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
Great video. I think there is a ton to learn from Somerville/Cambridge MA. Local test ride events, family rides, an e-bike “library”, active support via a Facebook community, etc.. All of this possible through endless work from a few volunteer leaders who have probably 10x’d cargo bikes in this area in the last few years. Go to any kid event (school, soccer) and it’s crazy how many bikes are now used.
You just described, to a T, our experience trying to buy an Urban Arrow locally. We went to the store to test ride the bike, but the guy at the store knew nothing at all about it, gave me bad advice about how to use the kickstand, was clueless about any accessories I mentioned. He clearly had never used a cargo bike in his life, and he took me on a Kafka-esque experience over the course of a month as I tried to buy the bike, which culminated in us no longer being able to reach them by phone, then pulling up at the door and finding the store completely empty. We ended up ordering the bike from Toronto, halfway across the continent. But he’s still listed as the Urban Arrow dealer in our province. It doesn’t surprise me at all that his business went under. Our local Kidical Mass group tried to get his shop to bring their Urban Arrows to an event so families could try them out, and the dealer said it wouldn’t be convenient for them. I’ve been a cargo-biking parent here for years and had no idea we had any Urban Arrows locally - THAT’s how disconnected and out of touch they were with our bike community!
Hi, same experience here. Love my Arrow, but I do all the servicing etc and buy anything I need out of Europe. The other family who own an Arrow in my city stop and chat whenever we see each other. Ended up buying a Tern for my wife, at least there is a bit more support with multiple dealers here. Have fun, ride safe!
I completely agree with many of the things you mentioned in this video. Here in Australia, I tried to purchase a Tern HSD S00, and after waiting for more than six months, I followed up directly with the brand, but they couldn't give me a delivery date. On the other hand, the shop kept me updated and communicated well. It's almost a $9,000 AUD bike, and I was shocked at how little they cared about me buying one. Instead, I purchased a Riese and Müller Charger 4, even though it didn't necessarily meet all my needs, because the service was better.
Fabulous vid, Arleigh! I'm really digging the family bike community scene that is emerging and growing in Minneapolis. I have an upcoming episode with Laura Mitchell up there that will drop on Friday, Oct 4th. Also, I'd love to have you back on the Pod if and when you're up for it. Keep up the amazing work. Cheers! John 🤗
I think you hit the nail on the head by suggesting that shops are being a bit too passive in waiting for customer to come to them when we can buy practically anything and everything online now. Starting in the aughts I spent a LOT of time in motorcycle shops, and part of what had me visiting those places all the time was that they organized manufacturer demo rides, new model unveilings, and parking lot events with free food. It definitely got people to show up, and I know I made a few riding buddies as a result. Bike shops can do all of those things. And another thing that local bike shops in my old neighborhood used to do was to coordinate weekend and weekday rides - that’s also a good way to get people to visit the shop and create a sense of community. That was how I got back into riding, mostly road and then gravel, after not really having ridden much since I got really involved with motorcycles. Coincidentally, I was in a bike shop today to fit myself on an eMTB. The shop didn’t have any from the brand I was interested in stocked, but I did spend 30 minutes talking to a reasonably well-informed sales person who discussed sizing, and provided some meaningful information regarding that brand as well as competing brands they stock. Granted, I’ve just started doing some eMTB research so there’s plenty I don’t know yet, but I can’t count the number of times in the past that I’ve wandered into a bike shop and realized that I know more about the products being sold than the staff. When that happens, part of me shuts down and if I’m doing all the work to figure out what I’m looking for then I’m also going to look for the least expensive option and it’s likely that it won’t be from that bike shop. So, yeah, that was a nice surprise and I’m inclined to go back there again.
I met the ceo of Trek at a “Ride For Our Lives” political demonstration bike ride….. he didn’t shake my hand. And at the end of the conversation when I said this would be cool to do again and maybe I could set one up in my town, he patted me on the shoulder condescendingly. I’m 31. He was so incredibly rude, it makes me totally disenchanted with the brand.
My LBS, Black Arrow Cycles, in Kitchener, ON, is fantastic for their customer service, and for their understanding of bikes as a way to get around, not just a fun hobby thing. Their level of service is why I keep coming back, and why I was seriously impressed when they recommended a different brand of bike than they carried, because it was clear that what I needed (a front-loader cargo bike) wasn't something they sold (although they sell Surly and Yuba long-tails). They were also happy to service the bike I did end up buying elsewhere, and have been fantastic about it.
I lived in Boulder County Colorado for 38 years. The cycling community and bike shops for the most part are very welcoming. But, there are some serious “SNOB SHOPS” and “SNOB RIDERS”. They look you up and down and their body language is “ don’t talk to me”. I buy my bikes in the shops that give me that warm fuzzy.
Very insightful! This reflects my own experience when I bought my first road bike. Went to a bike shop to a look at some bike I had read reviews about. The owner seemed as if he wasn’t even interested in selling anything. It’s even worse in those flagship bike stores that seem to pop up in every major city. Mostly clueless salespeople. Why go to a store if people hardly know more than I do.
My LBS has no interest in doing a bike fit, they carry no parts and just want to clerk out bikes. Their service department changed a cassette for me and didn’t bother to adjust the gearing. It’s frustrating.
I quite enjoyed your video outlining the hurdles faced by local bike shops. I have been an avid since Marzocchi released the first Bomber fork (approx 1995). Since then I've seen various parts and accessories that used to be made in Quality focused environments to parts being created in less stringent establishments. Oddly enough, the made in Italy parts that used to cost $600 (fork) and would last 2-4yrs without fail now cost $1400 and they rarely last a full season. This is the case with most new parts being 2-3x as much as parts in the 90's. But the quality has nose dived. Not worth our hard earned dollars. Thank goodness for Pinkbike!
I agree wholeheartedly. I am 65 years old and, a year ago, I bought my first Trek ebike. From test riding, the purchase, to service and adding accessories, the Trek store has been excellent. The mechanics are knowledgable and could answer my technical questions right off the bat. I cannot see myself buying from anyone else.
In Portland, traditional, even community supported bike stores are on the decline. Two of those are just about to close, trying to raise money to keep their doors open. In a big cycling city like ours, e-bikes are on the rise, which means that the requirements for bike mechanic knowledge are on the rise. People who are serious about commuting year around, sticking to it even if they are tired or temporarily disabled are interested in e-bikes. Families, including couples with pets, are interested in cargo e-bikes. There are enough used road bikes around so bike stores don't sell much of those any more, instead making a little bit of profit from maintenance, but not enough to survive.
Thank you for yet another excellent discussion. Spot on. 🎯 When I bought my Tern HSD Gen2 p5i i wanted to buy and maintain it through my LBS because I had done a lot of research (wanted to be certain before shelling out a lot of money to get best possible quality for my requirements) and knew enough to know that i needed a local specialist to maintain the complexities of the bike. I was astounded to discover (somewhat dismayed) that I knew more about this bike and the Bosch systems than anyone local (still not enough though). I was fortunate that the newish Australian Tern distributor was able to deliver my bike to Canberra so I was able to meet him and ask many more detailed questions. However on the broader issue of improving the cycling community and infrastructure to seriously challenge car driving, there seems to be a lot more required: better integrated and safer cycleways as well as secure bike parking (garages!) in major transport, shopping and CBD hubs as well as in higher density residential areas. Bikes need to be considered as more than recreational vehicles with service and emergency repair facilities like the car industry (recently discovered a local guy who was quite dismayed with the same issues in LBSs as you and he has started up a mobile bike servicing and emergency response business). I’m on the lookout for innovative community events also through the Canberra cargo bike community and Pedal Power (cycling advocacy group). I do think that Bosch and some of the major bike companies could perhaps combine efforts with the community advocacy groups to promote events and hot issues to build up the community and lobby governments for improvements to infrastructure.
Arleigh - nailed it. Thanks. We often feel the biggest impediment to growing cycling is sadly the bike industry. You touched on the family category and there's a while more to the story. Let's team up to tell it!
LBS’s should stop hiring roadies to sell bikes. Also, seminars on bike maintenance and bike safety help bring the cycling community together as well as group rides. And I’m not talking about racing groups. I always thought it was a good idea to hire young kids as apprentices. Get them hooked and their friends as well.
I have the opposite experience. The three stores I went to in the Colorado Springs area all were experts in the products. Took lots of time to talk to me about what I need and set up the bike I wanted to try out. And zero pressure to buy.
I went to my local bike shop. They were friendly. They love my brompton Unfortunately, the guy that helped me didn't know anything about Bromptons. I just got my bike and was still learning about it. The guy unfortunately changed the position of my break bars and now my handlebars doesn't lock in. I could go back and have him fix it but I feel little uncomfortable. As soon as I get some tools, I will change it back.
i needed a replacement tube for a family bike, i wanted to support local bike shop (that i got my bike from), when i called to ask if they had one in stock they said they did have it but after they gave me the price for that TUBE ONLY i was SHOCKED i will never ever ever call them back again. I can do a target or walmart order for less $10 and not have to deal with them trying to sell me in "installation" and price gouging on a tube. I couldnt beleive they wouldnt want to get me in the shop at all.
Target and Walmart are behemoth stores that suck the life out of our communities, and the local vendors that used to supply our needs. But for a few pennies saved, you’d rather see a local vendor go under. Enjoy getting a major repair done on your bikes when all the bike shops are gone.
I love my Gazelle electric assist bike that I bought after I researched electric assist bikes at several shops locally. I was previously more allied with the bike coop and the used bike resellers where I had shopped and gotten repairs done for years. I was not impressed with the Trek electric assist bikes the coop was featuring which seemed aimed at some racing enthusiast and not a dedicated all season commuter. I eventually settled on the Gazelle as it did seem clearly engineered to endless miles of enjoyable trouble free commuting. I chose the shop closest to my home who carried Gazelle so repairs and seasonal tire swaps could be as easy as possible. I talk up my bike whenever someone notices it, offer friends a test drive, encourage people to visit the shop I got it at. I still get my road bike repaired at the coop and encourage women looking for help getting properly fitted in a standard bike to go to the coop because they do that well. I encourage price conscious folks to check out the used resellers. I love bikes and wish the US would get much more into bikes for commuting and errand running. Thanks.
Trek has been crushing it with their brand stores. All the things you mentioned. Knowledgeable staff with, Customer Service skills, quick turnarounds on repairs.(they will fix anything) and group rides and events+ they always send a service team to help out at races. With the local shops it’s hit or miss, with Knowledge and customer service, but they all suffer latency with repair times. Local shop owners and managers should watch your video and take it heart. Thank you for sharing. Make your multi city family rides happen. It will be worth it!
I'm sorry to hear that there are so many mediocre bike shops in your area, but that has not been my experience at all here in Chicago. In the past 18 months, I have bought an e-cargo bike and a non-electric gravel bike from two different local sops, and have had minor repairs done at three others. All of my experiences have been positive. The salespeople I talked to were knowledgeable and happy to spend time with me to help me choose the right bike for my needs. (Shout out to Offbeat Bikes and Boulevard Bikes in Chicago.)
In the area I moved to 3 years ago, Birmingham Alabama, there is one large bike shop that has 4 stores here, one LBS is actually part of a chain, and the sixth LBS is independent. None of them could even do a complete service on my RockSox Recon fork and Monarch shock. I called the local shop where I did live. He told me to text him the serial & model numbers that when the parts came, he could service them in 24 hours. When I picked the bide up he gave Mr the old seals and wipers.
@barryrobbins7694 LOL that's I and other folks do when bike shops can't. So I don't go to the bike shop. So they can't sell me a bike. If the mechanics are good folks go to the shop and then they might buy a bike
@@Superteastain Good bike shops should actually teach customers how to work on their own bike. So they need to have good mechanics to work on bikes and also to teach customers. It builds trust, and some tools can be sold too.
They are least 5 LBS in my area, but only one of them will service and even assemble internet purchased e-bikes. Now I know that these bikes are part of the problem, but when buyers feel like they're being gouged by their LBS with the prices on their brands, I understand why purchasers will jump to the online sellers. Here's the thing - after owning a couple of online bikes, I now have a relationship with the shop that will work on them and will likely purchase my next e-bike from them, because I'm ready to spend the extra cash for a brand name. So their past service has driven a future sale.
Are other 4 LBS refusing service and assembling Internet e-bikes because of the higher insurance cost of the e-bike category? I ever read from Reddit that insurance companies have significantly raised the insurance premium of electric bicycles from this year.
as someone who works at a shop, I feel bad having to turn people away, but i've had too many bad experiences where cheap ebikes are so poorly made and have no backend suppourt in the form of diagrams, warranty people, etc (I had one bike where the wiring harness was cut by a piece of the frame while taking the rear wheel off, such poor engineering is unacceptable). that it isn't worth the time. We'll work on anything made with a dealer network in mind, but in my experience nobody is willing to pay for the amount of time it actually takes to work on the cheapo ebikes. And we have had our insurance increased because we work on them, it's definitely a real concern. I hope as the market matures and more standards and regulations come that I can work on every ebike again, but until that day comes i'm happy not having to work on them.
I agree with all of your observations 100%. Plus, I thought that I was being sensitive about the unpalatable attitude of bike shop technicians. Glad to know it was not just me noticing this. I have done business with many bike shops and noticed the commonality in attitudes but tried to ignore it in favour of getting my bike fixed and leaving quickly. Other than that, I tend to do research and then hunt down the bike within my city. So far so good. I HATE ONLINE SHOPPING! However for the gems who show palatable characters, "Thank you!!!". As for your question on how to grow a bike shop, sorry I wish knew. But, I love the idea of a family ride festival. Good luck and thank you for this content. Much needed and appreciated!!!
You're awesome. I bought a bike from you at salvaghettis, now defunct, in Denver. I worked at bike shops for 15yrs . Early 80s to late 90s. One problem with any small business is needing employees to wear many hats. A huge mistake is to interrupt a mechanic to help a customer. It rarely makes for a good interaction.
Well said I lived through that exact experience on my last purchase, went a little out of my way to buy local and saw these exact issues, highly distracted staff, lack of sales and setup process sent me home with brand new bike that had air in front brake lines and faulty XO derailleur
Hi Arleigh, here's an idea that's catching on here in Britain, the use of a bicycle as a service, our largest bicycle manufacturer is now supplying bikes direct on a subscription basis, for less than most gym memberships, a flexible rolling monthly or on an annual contract. This service includes bicycle protection insurance and two professional services per year (with a temporary replacement until your bike is returned) included in the monthly rental fee. My shiny brand new steed was delivered in August, six speeds and dynamo lighting which folds in three to a very compact size, ideal for cycling to the nearest bus stop, hop off and cycle to the nearest rail station and explore a new city or go visit family in London! On top of which our Parish Council actively encourage active mobility and we hold a community bike maintenance pop ups at local village events to help our neighbours on a practical basis and offer advise and quite often recycle bicycles into the community for free,
I am glad that the SF Bay area has The New Wheel. Knowledgeable and kind staff who answered all my newbie questions and let me try a range of ebikes until I found the one I like best. Not snobby, and def interested in commuter biking
One little idea I tried to share with a local bike shop. Have bike shop T shirts. Make sure you have from XS-5X. This is the US. Have them for sale, cheap, ideally at cost. Every time someone buys a bike, they get a t-shirt for free. Too complicated for them.
It had been 30 years since I owned a bike and this changed a couple of months ago when I decided it was time to enjoy cycling again. I binged researched on UA-cam and google and full of enthusiasm headed out on a mission to purchase a bike. I live in Australia and in the first two stores I entered customer service was completely absent, not even a greeting. Both stores had one other customer in them but I wasn't of any importance apparently lol. I walked out of the first large flashy Trek showroom thinking this sucks, not spending my money here. I threw the second store a lifeline as they were a small business and approached the owner, explaining that I was interested in possibly buying a bike. Out of the four local stores I visited only one offered a greeting and service on walking in. I myself work for a camping and outdoors retailer and wouldn't even think of offering such vague levels of customer service or a lack of greeting.
What I experience here in Los Angeles is large indy bike shops that carry all the newest biking eye candy is this PERVASIVE elitist attitude which I expect and accept; its like walking into a auto dealership. Especially in shops that deal almost exclusively with MTB clientele who have the money to spend, the techs who usually man the counter as well, don't want to bother with me and my quasi-vintage Flintstones 9 speed. They want me to buy a new $5K bicycle or would you please, GTFO of the store because they're too busy souping up mechs for the well-heeled MTBer. I kind of laugh at it and then go over to my grimy neighborhood Bike Shop which is a true neighborhood joint they'll fix anything you wheel in gladly.
Great video! People will travel for a good shop with people that care and are knowledgeable. I have a great shop for mountain biking and commuting oriented cycling, but we will drive 2 hours to go to a shop that specializes in bikepacking and touring. As an older guy riding bicycles, I’ve found I really appreciate someone who understands bike fitting!
Since the day I started cycling I have found that employees at an overwhelming majority of the shops I've set foot in were incredibly arrogant. In fact, I now do all of my own mechanic work and orders parts, framsets etc. online just so I don't have to deal with these jerks.
That's a very good point, I have found this arrogant and I am better than you attitude at local bike shops around me.
Arrogance and rudeness abound in all the retail sectors. Biking is not the cause. People serve themselves not others and the social contract and golden rule is growing thin.
I think they've become used to people with money to burn walking in and dropping thousands of dollars without blinking; if you are not one of them, you are kind of an unperson to a bike shop employee.
wow, maybe it's you. Most, not all, of the bike shop employees I've encountered in the 100s of shops I've been in over the past 4 decades have been decent enough.
same here. ive found 1 shop i liked but the owner passed away years ago.
My sister is new to MTB and rode a local trail with me. She crashed and bent her derailleur. Our lbs fixed it on the spot for free and was very encouraging and non-judgmental towards her when she told her story. Before moving here I would drive 45 minutes, passing multiple shops, to get to the shop that gave me the most respect and talked to me as a fellow rider instead of a cash box.
Amen!
this is the most annoying thing about most places. thank you!
As a bike mechanic, out of respect for myself and my fellow mechanics, I cannot do free work if I want the shop to stay open. I don't view customers as cash-boxes, but they shouldn't view me as a clubhouse buddy that's gonna fix their bike for them for a smile. It's a delicate balance but labor has a value, and anyone expecting to get some from me should have to pay.
@@adamtbabel Your shop will close, and many you work at probably already have. It's a bent derailleur, not an entire rebuild of the drivetrain. You just read a comment where a guy said he'd pass 45 minutes worth of competitors to go to the one shop that did nice things and didn't speak how you just spoke. Ignore that information at your own expense.
@@austinballard8867 rent is probably considerably lower in a spot that people are driving 45 minutes to get work done. In a major metropolitan city I need to charge for all of my work to make the math work. And another thing: I'm not trying to be smug or rude, you are reading my comment that way, I'm just trying to outline how hard it is merely to survive in the industry and doing work for free only cheapens our efforts and builds an expectation in customers that is not sustainable.
We had a small bike shop open up in my town during COVID. He obtained a few bikes, mostly just for demos. He has a program of weekend rentals so you can get an expensive bike, try it out where you want, then apply the rental cost to a purchase. His business model was set up as he would order anything that you wanted from his lines, but would only sell and assemble to order. His real business is in service, and he will fix anything you bring him. Easy to talk to fun group of guys, and they're always doing events in the area.
The most deadly sin in the bike industry when boiled down has to be “ego”…
Never understood where the ego came from, too. Strange how the industry attracts so much ego.
@@Mr_Zzzeee I'm fairly new to mtb but have come to it through bmx and into some commuter bikes.
Why does it attract ego? Because brands and shops are actively seeking and serving much more attentively only the people with the highest budgets. You're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with and if most of your customers are high-earning folks (many of whom have to have an inflated sense of self to work in their professional roles) you'll sell more bikes if you appear to those folks to be similarly ego-inflated.
I walked into a bike shop the other day. They have their $35 Park chain washing tool listed at $80. So they're saying we are happy to punish you if you insist on working on your own bike (like a budget-conscious person). I'm looking into moving from my hardtail to a full suspension short travel trail bike. When I told them the sort of bike I was looking for and the budget I had ($4000-5000, a perfectly reasonable budget for an adequate short travel trail bike, especially with the sales they have) they insisted I wouldn't be happy with that bike but instead that I'd only be happy with a different bike that was far beyond the use case I was asking for, an ebike, and their top spec. I was willing to spend $5000 and instead they said I'd have to spend a minimum $12000 to be happy with a bike.
Unfortunately for them, I know better than that. I don't need a 160mm enduro bike. I don't want an ebike. And I don't care about gold stantions on my fork and seatpost or the lightest weight carbon components.
So I've kept my $4500-ish in my pocket and will be happy to give it to someone else.
Pride comes before the fall. 🍂🍁
I had a problem with one rim where the tube kept blowing out. I figured there must be some kind of kink or bend in the wheel or rim. I took it to a shop, explained how I've gone through like 10 flats with that one tire. The guy mumbled "you're probably not being careful", he took the wheel out of my hand rather brusquely, inserted a tube and filled it up, and handed back to me and said "$10". So the next day I go out to ride, and within 10 feet from my house, the tire goes "pssssss" and was instantly flat.
@@ciscoterres717 Horrible. Never go back to that place. The only way they will change.
I've been cycling since the mid-80s, and I hate how egos have grown over the years. There's always that one person on a group ride barking orders, always the one guy with the LAB71, the one guy with the bling kit, the one guy pulling up in a fully fitted Mercedes sprinter, the one guy with the $20K TT bike, the one guy carrying on about the race he won... ad infinitum. There is no humble pie on display, and such an elitest BS attitude that you can cut with a knife. It is EXTREMELY intimidating for an unseasoned rider to join a group like this - and it's sad because it's limiting the community.
I think the "issue" is that more people are biking. These big ego folks were always there. They just have bikes now.
Agree that why I play soccer or football cos this sport need team work.. And I ride alone
It's not just that either, it's that some of these people literally are on the edge of starting fights when you run into them. I go out to ride to relax, push myself, struggle, not get into potential confrontations with other people looking to run their mouth
The last bike shop I went to couldn't be bothered to help me out. I was ready to spend $3k+ and walked out the door with no bike. I will never go back to that shop and I'm likely to get my next bike online. And I will figure out how to wrench it myself. They did this to themselves.
Even in the late 90’s/early 2000’s when I was competing a bit and working in bike shops I couldn’t STAND other cyclists. Ugh they were so insufferable! The egos and the desperate need for attention. There’s just something about cycling that attracts really annoying insecure people 😂
I've had exactly the same experiences with most of the bike shops in my area, I really wanted to find a place I could build a relationship with and continually work with but I always got treated like they were too busy to help or completely lacked the knowledge to do so. After a while of searching I ended up ordering parts and tools and learning to do my own maintenance. It's a shame really.
Same experience. Closest shop is 30 min away. And the customer service has always been horrible.
Shop 2 hours away Is amazing but I can't just go there all the time.
Learned to do a lot myself
the local bike shop near me is small and cramped and almost all of the bikes are up on hoists so if you want to look at one up close, it has to be taken down for you, which just increases the pressure to buy. I don't feel like I can just walk in to brouse; I am instantly approached by a sales person who wants me to make a decision in 90 seconds and I was lucky to get out of there without a bike I wasn't positive I wanted.
there are no LBS in my area I have no choice but to work on mine to be honest it's easy save money buy a nice frame and nice parts online
Riding a bicycle is a great way to exercise. Ebikes are bringing many older adults back to cycling.
Cities need to do more to encourage people to ride bicycles. Safe protected bike lanes and trails are needed so adults and children can ride safely. Speak up for bicycles in your community. Bicycles make life and cities better. Ask your local transportation planner and elected officials to support more protected bike lanes and trails. Children should be riding a bicycle to school and not be driven in a minivan. Be healthier and happier. Ride a bicycle regularly.
All of that until you see the price tag 😮💨
Left the industry earlier this year to become a civil servant, after being in and out of bike shops for many years. (I am a woman in my 50s, now.) I started out at local, independent bike shop and then, another. After I heard about one of them getting bought out and now offering benefits, I thought it would be a great opportunity to go back. I was wrong. Benefits and perks, and training, were great at first, but diminished drastically after the first year. After 2 years there, less benefits and perks than I started with. We were now paying more for insurance, our discount had dwindled and no one ever got a raise. Employees started dropping like flies and half of our stores were closed. If these things aren't red flags, I don't know what is. The industry is dying and to hang on by a thread, it is trying to do more with less. It's sad, because I believe in the power of bikes, (no matter who you are, how old you are or what shape you're in). When you say you walk into a shop and the employees don't know bikes...I am pretty sure it is because they don't care. They don't work enough hours to care and they don't make enough money to care. Only the hardcore bike shop employees know anything and what they focus on is high end road and mountain bikes. They just want to sell S-Works all day and they only care about the customers interested in those. Let me tell you, the majority of the people in this world riding bikes are NOT wealthy, serious cyclists. (Don't even get me started about being a woman in the business!) ☮♥🚲 (Sorry for the long rant.)
Invisible majority.
Yep... no time and no money... wages are poor.
Regards from Germany!
My advices:
- Let your sales People ride bikes. And encourage them to commute to work by bike. Who would buy a bike from someone that does nit ride the bike? Install showers if necessary that your employees can get refreshed after arriving if necessary…
- do events for people. Training, bbq, how to find the nice routes, what is important in commuting, how to do the small repairs, etc. You could also offer an emergency service for people who got issues with their bikes on tour. You transport the bike to your shop and offer repair and while the rider is waiting for a pick up you sell him a new one.
- Rent some bikes. You wanna start commuting and need a bike: here is one. Try for a week and then come back. And that does not have to be for free.
- if you are in a central position, rent some safe bike parking space. Who wants to go shopping and leave the 5KDollar bike in a space where it might be stolen.
- in autumn bikes need light and special care. And in spring you might check the bike again. Give a discount if people buy their bikes at your shop.
- think about a local bike community club. Or if there is one, support it. Work with them together - it is a win win situation.
I don’t think you understand America. Most peoples commutes are 10-60 mins DRIVING. no one unless they are in a major city in an apartment would commute by bike to work.
@@stealthswim223I live in the Philly suburbs and commute by bicycle - and I do so successfully.
Mornin Germany
Another good one: simple repair tool stand & air pump. Almost all the good shops around here offer this.
We have a local bike shop that works local suppliers and a bicycle coalition to sponsor family rides. AFAICT, they're doing well, and their community involvement has encouraged my patronizing their shop instead of closer ones.
I'm a mom of 2 elementary school aged kids. I was so excited to get an electric cargo bike. Once I got it, I took a minor spill with my kids on board and that just released a flood of worry about my kids safety that I haven't been able to recover from yet. When you ride on the street, you are taking a gamble that you will not encounter a reckless, distracted driver that day. If we had a network of protected bike lanes, I would be much more likely to give my cargo bike another shot. I know, I am way too risk averse, but I don't think I'm alone in worrying about the dangers of being on the road on a bicycle with precious cargo onboard.
I was cycling in my 20s on SCARY streets without proper infrastructure. MId 30's now and I don't want to be blamed for my own death, or at best, shrugged off as a sacrifice to the traffic gods. So I walk (which is still risky).
Despite your minor spill I think hauling your kids around on the bike is a good idea.
My suggestion would be to go out on the bike solo to build up your confidence and skill. Gravel / debris on the road and sleepy inattentive drivers are your enemy. With experience you will overcome these obstacles. May you and your family have many happy days on the bike.
A bicycle is my preferred way of going a city. But the bike lanes are here. Sure, the bike infrastructure is not the best in the world but it is serviceable. There has been much improvement in the last 20 years. I would not risk riding a bicycle on the road with cars in the city. City road is not a place for a bicycle.
Typical mentality of most people today.
When I was a kid we used to drink from the garden hose and ride our mini-bikes, motorcycles and definitely bicycles without any helmets.
Before my generation, 19 year olds were storming the beach at Normandy on D-day.
We now live in a Snowflake society.
Bicycle advocacy in the US is probably the least attractive facet of the bike industry, most likely because it isn’t sexy, the main focus for most commuters and similar users is on utility, function and budget, so there’s usually not much money to be made. So the industry doesn’t generally care, IMHO, and I’ve been told as much to my face.
You want bike lanes in your city? You’ll need to get involved. Find a local club or advocacy group, or maybe you’ll need to ask around through social media and IRL and cook up your own group. Key things are persistence, determination and endurance, identifying the pertinent issues, and making your voice heard. None of that stuff can do it by itself. The challenges are getting burned out, members flaking, the bureaucracy and attitudes, and the temptation to keep every group meeting from turning into beer and pizza night instead of getting stuff done.
You want bike lanes - this bike advocacy thing, she’s a lotta work. There’s no other way around it if that’s what you want.
I live in a bike friendly city with tons of bike commuters, but shops don't really sell cheap commuter bikes, so we're all stuck riding used ones that we feel comfortable locking up instead of new ones that aren't $1k plus.
I noticed that US bicycle culture treats bicycles as sport, so there is no place for commuter city bikes. I live in Krakow, Poland, whose bicycle infrastructure has improved immensely in the last 20 years. You would see city bikes on the lanes fairly often and you would have no problems buying one. And a decent city bike is for life. I bought a used Batavus city bike for the equivalent of maybe 150 dollars, which at the time I bought it was already around 30 years old LOL. It was litterally the best purchase of my life. I ve been riding on it for 5 years now, works like a charm. I am planning to buy another bike for long trips, but this city bike is a keeper.
You guys need decathlon bikes over there
I recently build 1k+ in retail bike for 600. All new parts - frame, forks, brakes, wheels, nexus 8 speed hub, gates carbon drive, ect. Retailers operate with huge profit margin. You can figure out rest.
We valued your input when you were with Tern and we left that brand about the same time that you did, not because it wasn't a great product but it just didn't have a niche in our market. We are an electric bicycle shop, we do not carry analog bicycles and we are working hard to build a supportive community for people who use their ebikes for fun, recreations, exercise and more practical considerations like running errands, doing a grocery shop or commuting to and from work. It's been 6 years and we still find it a bit of challenge but compared to the LBS's in our area who specialize in analog bicycles, we are doing very well.
I definitely take note of how a bike shop treats me. I do a lot of research and am enthusastic about my bike. Whether a person engages with me when I say what I'm working on, or stares blankly, definitely impacts how comfortable I feel going back.
For many years I couldn't get a job at any of the bike shops where I lived in northern Michigan. All the kids who worked at them, didn't know anything about bikes. In my late 20's, I moved to a big Ohio city and finally got a job at a bike shop. Then I ran into all the problems your describing here. I started volunteering at local nonprofit bike shops, and found that they weren't interested in promoting bikes, but maintaining their "Clique". I've also found that, it's not What you know that matters most, but WHO you know that matters. Unfortunately I've never known the right people. When ever I go into a bike shop, I buy a part and leave. I do all my own repair work. Thank you.
Been living car free for more than 25 years. Went on a group ride tonight with a friend who runs a bicycle advocacy group in Thunder Bay Ontario. fun ride, good people. Not one person from any of the local bikes shops to be seen.
Bike shops need more grassroots community involvement.
Honestly the group that you rode with is most likely not the client base of your local bike shops! I’ve been through this in the motorcycle business. The enthusiast clubs sure have their hands out for freebies from local dealers but their members will do anything that they can to avoid buying from a local dealer.
The best thing a bike shop can do is treat everyone that comes through the front door or service department with enthusiasm, respect and expertise!
Counterpoint: a lot of them are working during group ride season/times. I wish I could go on more group rides but it just doesn't work out with my schedule.
@@chrisfournier6144 bicycles and motorcycles have unique cultures that aren't even remotely comparable to one another.
I’m new to tbay what is this called.
I'm convinced that 90 percent of Americans who claim that they need a car don't actually need one and have never seriously considered going without.
The quality of bicycle parking both at home - specifically in regulated housing like apartments - but also in the public realm has simply not kept up with what's needed based on both the high value of useful bikes and the need for bikes to be reliable daily drivers.
In California there is a process to update building codes inclusive of higher quality bicycle parking, but it doesn't include existing apartments.
In California, and as far as I know in all states that offer an e-bike incentive, there's no component that supports better bike parking for these bikes... A family can get a couple thousand dollars for an e-bike, but they live on the second floor and there's no secure parking at ground level. What are they supposed to do with a bike that weighs 85 lbs?
Shop owner- I don’t sell bikes. Only service, parts and do a lot of community engagement. Not selling bikes allows me to have fast turn around, more time to focus on client needs and demands and engagement in local non corporate group rides allows me to do free tune ups/safety checks and keep people rolling. Keeping things cheap allows people to access services and support they can’t afford at the corporate owned stores. Not turning down Walmart bikes and doing online bike bought assembly builds keeps people coming back where the big stores deny them. It’s easy. Staying relevant means staying in touch with the communities that surround you, not just the ones who can easily afford a $1k bike.
100% agree with all your points made. There is definitely a level degree of arrogance when I walk into a bike specific shop And the knowledge they convey. My experience is what happened After buying my dream bike. I felt Like my concerns were discarded because I have already purchased the bike and they just wanted me out the door. After purchasing my dream bike. I requested to have my bike personally Set up suspension wise for my weight and riding style. They responded with “ Go online and you can find You’re basic settings”! I was met with more resistance to my request. This experience just put a large dark cloud when knowing I’m buying my dream bike.
I ended up working at a bike shop Part-time since then, and I treat every customer with a level of respect, they deserve. And I’m definitely not afraid to say., I don’t know, but I can find somebody else who’s more knowledgable.
Most bike shops have their blinders on one they think just because they’re selling namebrand bikes. They are immune to the fallout. Cheers
Great video! The bike shop is the brand. I'll buy whatever my local bike shop sells and support.
That's what I've been doing for 40+ years. I don't trust Shimano or Trek or ... I trust the mechanic who help me select, assembled and will repair my bike, sell me the next, etc.
It's not that I don't trust Shimano or Trek, it's that I trust that every year, their quality gets lower while their prices get higher. If I could have a mid-range quality bicycle out of a time machine from the late 1980s or early 1990s, I'd be a much happier rider.
North American biking is just to focused on performance road bikes. They need to change.
What about performance MTB's ? $10,000+ 😵
Plenty of trails out there...
What about performance gravel bikes?
I commute on a Posiedon X gravel bike $700 new I also have an Lectric XP3.0 $999 for cargo runs like grocery shopping
I have a “one man bike shop.” That makes a lot of aspects of running a bike shop easier than a staffed bike shop, such as quality control and giving myself executive power to say “I don’t know.” Also, I only do service. No new bike sales. Thus, shelf-life of bikes is not an issue. I know what parts move and the cost of having those in stock isn’t as significant. Alas, the service repair shop only feeds me and my family. No real room to scale/grow.
Is that because the community isn’t large enough to support another mechanic in your shop or the difficulty to find another mechanic or something else?
@@Doornail It is a tiny 444 sq. ft. cottage home in a residential area. Not only do I not want another bike mechanic, the city of Boulder only allows for one employee in home based businesses and that employee must live there.
Every bike shop owner needs to see this video. Nice work, been noticing (and frustrated by) this issues for years!
Thanks for chiming in!
The logistics involved in running any small business can be daunting. Bike shop logistics of ordering, inventory, billing, dealing with employees and "high expectation" customers, etc. are immense challenges!
The bike shops near me do a solid job of assisting customers relevant to what they sell and happy to recommend going elsewhere (either higher-end or basic consumer grade) when there is misalignment with what the customer seeks.
What irritates me most about the industry as a whole is the constant changing of standards... 135mm, 142x12, Boost, SuperBoost; a dizzying array of 10/11/12 speed "cable" shift and now electronic 32/28/24 spoke alloy and carbon wheels, and finally the frame geometry terms: XC, Mountain, Trail, Downhill, Down Country, E-bikes and bloody no pedal-assist scooters/mopeds, ...
None of that matters if you have technically capable, mature employees who have social skills and don't try to shame and peer pressure like a child.
THANK YOU!!! …for articulating what I’ve been feeling lately. I work in a local bike shop and I’m growing increasingly frustrated with the very same issues you mentioned here.
The shop I work for is big enough that I’ve been fully focused on the back-end and it frustrates me that we don’t offer a better experience on the customer-facing side, luckily, we’ve started conversations and we will focus on changing that.
Of course many old-timers look at me weird when I express my thoughts, so watching your video gives me hope.
I personally really appreciate online retailers with their solid parts availability and my own tools for wrenching on my own bikes the way I want it done.
Access to safe riding areas is foremost. Then community building.. rides that’s aren’t competitions. Bring back the shops with espresso/ beer that encourage people to hang out and talk with each other. It’s such a rare experience these days..
I think a bike show would be pretty awesome.
Locals get together on corners and lots for car shows where they display their cars, why not bikes? I’d go to that!
They do!
@@thedownunderverseif they have them locally I don’t know about them.. I know they have big ones on the other side of the country, but that’s not really helpful to my local bike shops.
@@chendy2099 Think, solve, organize, and participate. You got the first two.
The problem I see with the local bike shops is that they are catering mostly to the MAMIL persona - middle aged dudes with a tonne of money to spend on a fancy bike and gear and they are here to drop dollars. But when I as a woman who mostly bike commute go in, I can never find anything that I want, let alone in my price range. For example, if I'm getting a new helmet, I can probably afford something in the $35-80 range, but at my now closed LBS, it was more like $80-$200, way beyond my budget.
Another thing is that most of the stock are not meant for family or bike commuting. I've been trying to find an aluminum front rack (!!) to go on my little bike for 5+ years and not really succeeding. A front rack is so key because if you have a child seat, you still want something at the front to hold your stuff so your back is not sweaty. Most of the racks are black, if it's even available, it will ruin the esthetic of my bike, and it probably doesn't even fit properly to my bike. It's small things like that that makes a huge difference to customers. Or what about a waterproof rain poncho for cycling? The only 'good' one is the one from Decathlon in Europe. Therefore, whenever I go to Europe, I also try to stock up on my bike commuting accessories. The Netherlands, and France has good selection vs price and I even get it duty free when I bring it home. It seems to be the only way until the shops in North America figure this out and start expanding ideal client profile.
You can paint a rack any color you want.
So you think shops should spend their very limited funds to buy inventory for customers that don't exist? The cycling culture that exists in Europe does not exist in the US. Shops stock the products that their customers want to buy. Most of those customers would not even consider a $35 helmet. Most who will buy that helmet will never walk into a bike shop.
A small percentage of riders in the US use their bikes for transportation. What you are asking is the equivalent of asking a Kia dealer to stock racing components appropriate for NASCAR.
In most cases and places shops are trying to take care of too many categories of customers out of economics. Ideally we would have enough riders that Shops could specifically take care of certain types of riders. Until then niche customers will not be well served
Have you checked with Soma Fab for your front rack?
Same in the UK - the vast majority of bike shops are sport oriented, there's barely anything for utility cycling. The difference between Dutch and British bike shops is insane.
@@joearnold3594 But a majority of cyclists in the USA are casual recreational cyclists with their dept store bike or maybe $700 Treks. They will be very happy with a cheaper non-brand helmet as long as it didn't look goofy. I've had $80 Giros, but my current helmet was $30 Bell from Big 5 sporting goods. No fit dial or MIPs but luckily it fit perfectly. There is always a place for a value option among all the fancier stuff.
I think an unwillingness to accept, let alone embrace, e-bikes is a common oversight. So much of what they know easily translates to eBikes. Plus, most e-bikes are bought by casual riders that NEED local service. I’m a senior ebiker who is enjoying biking again and wish my local bike shop would help instead of sneer.
E-bikes are atrocities that should be outlawed
@@snuffles7314 why I use both if Im running late for work witch is rare I use my Ebike I also use it for grocery shopping any other time Im riding my gravel bike
Only recently (2023-24) our LBSs have stepped up in service. There was a big hole in service in North County San Diego until recently. Levo Rider
Thoughtful piece. Thank you. I bought my first road bike 12+ years ago from the dominant LBS in my city here in Orlando, FL. The woman who sold me the bike was terrific. That said, subsequent experiences there gave me a bit of a "bro-vibe". I've since bought 2 more of the same brand bikes, one from the LBS here, and another from a LBS in MD. Purchase experiences were okay. I've done bike fits in one of these shops locally, and in a 3rd shop in MD. Owner of the 3rd shop in MD was awesome--not a lick of arrogance, just knowledgable and helpful. All that said, none of these shops offer recumbents. The implicit message is, "Well, now that you are older, time for you to consider an E-bike." To heck with that! At 65 I'm entirely capable of powering myself. This is not to say I don't appreciate or might not get an E-Bike a few years from now. So, over the last couple of years, I researched and found a LBS 109 miles away where the owner spent lots of time over months before the sale and then at the sale. My 2-wheel recumbent is a blast to ride though there has been a learning curve. It is so much easier on my back and other precious parts. And, when I'm done, I feel great! No more BPS (Bent Pretzel Syndrome). Yes to all your points and, look into leading the public in understanding the benefits of recumbents.
The bike shops that are doing well is almost always the case of creating community, also trying to focus on one or two type of cycling! Those bugs stores that do a bit of everything get kinda busy in the summer or whatever the bike season is in the town but after that, no more projects to keep the shop busy enough! I visit some fantastic shops. Great video
Glad I’ve stepped away from bicycle retail, it’s always upsetting when you feel your the only person caring in a shop , but I guess it helps when former customers still message you about their bike questions
I continue to support kids on bikes when I can to hopefully help get some more butts on bikes
As a thirty plus year bike industry worker I feel lucky that the two shops I’ve worked at foster all of the ideas,customer service, knowledge and professionalism you emphasize here. I also feel that as you said empowering sales staff that if they don’t know a specific bikes features be honest and then , get curious, Al questions and help the answers be found. Thanks for the video and for emphasizing how fly by night the bike bike industry can be.
As a customer of both mailorder and LBS components and bikes I think you hit the nail on the head in that you can't have a biking culture/community without a good LBS, at the same time, you can't have a thriving a LBS without a great community. There is a LBS not far from my home where I recently purchased a class 1 ebike for my wife. One hand finanace options was great but when it came down to making sure my wife was safe, they didn't suggest to purchase a helmet, which they had 50% off. They also didn't go over basic maintenance of the bike and didn't offer a free initial adjustment after so many months of initual use. We're happy with the purchase, but they came up short when it came to maintenance, safety, and offering a free adjustment. This bike shop I'm sure has your regulars, infact I've seen quite a few of the same people there on most of my visits, I'm sure their friends of store employees so it's probably a given that when of these "friends" purchases a bike, those experienced bikers (mountain and rode) know the routine and probably work on their own bikes. We're not one of them, so don't treat us like we know what were doing espically since this is her first ebike. I was about to put this 60lb ebike on my hitch bike rack, good thing I looked up the weight rating otherwise it could have been in pieces all over the road while trying to drive it home on a rack that wasn't adequate. They should ask how you plan to transport this rather heavy bike home?" Anyway, some of the LBS in my neck of the woods have been great, while others, need to go back and evaluate where they're coming up short in terms of sales, customer service, bike knowledge, and what to ask the buyer of every bike purchase regardless if it is a $300 or $3000 bike.
Two of the last 3 bike purchases I've made have been mailorder and I've been happy with them, but I also have not had the misfortune of having to warranty parts or frame, so I can't relate to those who have had to wait months to have a replacement part or frame sent back to them. We're out of the pandemic, so manufacturing of surplus parts and frames should not be an issue, though I've heard of some nightmare warranty wait times.
I think you bring up some very good points that LBS's and mailorder companies alike should be paying attention to these concerns.
Some of the issues you identifed are because the bike shop is a hobby for the owner and employees and not a business. There are successful bike shops but they require committed owners and employees. Very difficult business - hours are huge - but you have to love it.
I think the pandemic affected so much of this, from obvious supply/demand issues, to competitive rates/wages for entry level workers, to shops sticking to entry level bread and butter bikes or specializing in niche boutique brands, to many brands pivoting to direct-to-consumer, to the actual price of bikes inflating and then inevitably being fire sold when inventory peaks. It's a bummer. I feel like before the pandemic, local shops would have frequent MTB group rides or parking lot parties with a long jump competition or a fun game of foot down. I don't see as much of that anymore.
I feel grateful that my city (Calgary, Canada) has BikeBike. When I found them it was a breath of fresh air- no judgement about my body size, gender, or experience riding a bike. They’re also super passionate about what they carry in store. 10/10.
BikeBike is so good!
I’m in Edmonton and BikeBike kicks ass. I love some of my locals, but they are on a different level of care.
What the actual F kind of bike shops have you been going to that make this seem like some kind of weirdo safe space anomaly for you? Your body type, gender and experience only matter in cycling when you are trying to keep up with faster riders. This sport is about natural selection by design so get used to that. But buying the bike shouldn’t be.
@@BikeShopGirl Thank you!
@@IdrisFashan Thank you!
Great video. I decided to buy online because the competence and customer service of my tern dealer is the pits. The bikes however are life changing.
Wow! You nailed it so many times. I live in the South Carolina upstate. There are many LBS in my area that I like and try to support, but when I want the best knowledge, experience, skill and attitude, I bypass them all and drive over an hour to get to Bike Worx in Spartanburg, SC.
Great vid. Awesome!😊
Southpaw Cycles in the Clemson area is very good too.
You nailed it. I raced in the late 80's and 90's and commuted for 30. The bike community, from riders to the shops, then and now are indiscernable on many levels. Coming from Texas and relocating to Alaska, I recently walked into a bike shop (one of only a small few) to start getting back into it as a commuter. Not once was I asked If I needed help or was acknowledged. This would have never happened back then. Theres not enough room to explain all the dynamics. The culture has changed while the bicycles have not. High end compoenets were always expensive and it was always a pride to ride around on the latest C-Record or Dura Ace group but there was also a culture of inclusion that is a sense of humanity that is lost in this industry now.
A sense of humanity is fast disappearing in society in general.
You’re speaking my language! We need more community in bike shops. Also more focus on the used market. Better customer service and better service programs. Big brands can be great, but they have taken the control out of the hands of the stores. Stores need to take it back. I dream of opening a bike shop. I just can’t imagine doing it with the big brands breathing down my neck all the time.
Super video. I'm sure your points will ring true with those who watched. I'm m a road cyclist and have actually been a competitive sailor all my like making the switch to cycling at 38. I feel have suffered a slow decline here in New Zealand over the last 40 years, Perhaps people don't have the free time they use to or maybe we are just not as organised in this digital era.
New bike kit is very expensive now so I buy used and online.
Going to my local bike shops in our City is not an enjoyable experience for me and it maybe just me!
It's tough to please all the different people that are considering a purchase but being able to read a customer and go above and beyond with service is a dying art.
But being at the start/ end of a major rail trail I see thousands of cyclist go past my lounge window each summer and with the advent of Ebikes gives me a glimmer of hope for the industry. I love cycling nearly as much as sailboat racing!!
For those of us in smaller communities, our local bike shops, which were already small to begin with, now suffer even more from poor selection, low inventory levels on the selection they do have, slow service due to lack of good labor, and high prices. You put all of those together, and there quickly comes a point where shopping your LBS becomes more an act of charity than anything else. It's very sad, because I can remember when it wasn't that way.
LBSs should be working with local planning/officials to raise awareness and support biking for transportation. Specifically e-biking for transportation is something LBS have never understood or supported in most cases. They see themselves as personal sales to sports riders, but Canyon and DTC from the majors is unwinding that. So to be relevant, you need to be out in front in your community, working to support or even form a bike coalition and all of the bike forward initiatives that brings with it.
But these LBS cannot do this on their own. These major brands SHOULD DEFINITELY be supporting efforts like you describe but they don't do that. Major brands seem to have zero interest in promoting "biking for transportation" on a local or national level. They do not seem to have the foresight to see that the "biking for transportation" market could explode with the right kind of support and nurturing. After all the market for that could be MUCH larger than this focus on expensive road or gravel bikes that these brands seem to be exclusively focusing on now.
I've been in the bike industry since the 80's. In most areas I see they don't support cycling like group rides on Sundays when the shop is closed!!!! Ranges from B through D rides plus small races like a 10k TT but only stock bikes only. That's the way shops did it in the 80-90's !!! Obviously the owners don't ride. I see that in NM !!!
@@jensenhealey907efi the LBS can certainly do this on their own. this sort of work is done locally. i know some shops which have devoted resources to local activism dedicated to safe cycling. what it takes is for the shop owner to get involved in the local organizations that advocate for bike lanes and safe streets.
I agree I Live in San Marcos(North County SD) and have been car free for 1 year. We are a family of 6. I wish everyone had more information for families who want to bike for transportation, instead of just pamphlets for the class of ebikes.. I have asked for bike valet and have been laughed at by some community members.
They need to throw a coffee shop, support the locals and have good mechanics
The shops need to be more like propel. It was so relax to work with them and they view a bike as fun and transportation. Not as trying to be an elite cyclist and looking down on people for asking questions. And they were so knowledgeable!
good luck affording their bikes though. theres just nowt for folk who cant afford a car. so much so that folk who can just afford a car will buy a car.
I have been cycling as an adult since 1972. Our local bike shop in Tampa had a van with roof racks and bike related stickers all over it. We went to tours and races from Coconut Grove to Mount Dora in that van, we met at the store for rides and.... E.J. the owner, was at every bike club meeting and... never took off his rear view mirror from his glasses.
Sounds like a great shop
Wow. You nailed it. And you did it without anger, rancor, or cynicism.
You are correct about the state of affairs in bike shops. I can’t tell you the number of times that I have gone in and known more about the product than the guy working there. Sure, I’m autistic and bikes are my thing; but they should know more than me. It’s what they do.
Bike shops need to become more approachable. That means through attitude - making people feel welcome - and through pricing. The folks who walk into an LBS wanting “just a bike” need product that works and is affordable. That’s the hole in the market.
Customers know more than most clerks in lots of businesses. What customers often think is the most important info often really isn’t. I sold light aircraft. If detailed info on the planes were actually very important, Cessna wouldn’t be selling their deathtraps for the last twenty years.
Also, the people skills to handle buyers are generally WAY more important overall than product knowledge on each and every model. If something is very important to a customer, you simply look it up for them, but generally the difference in specs is often misleading or imperceptible to most customers while other features can be incredibly important and particular to a given user (like ergonomics).
@@nunyabidness3075 I work in a large hardware store. I have broad general knowledge on hundreds of product categories and deep knowledge in half a dozen or so, but sometimes I still have to tell customers "I don't know, let me get someone who knows more", or if there's no one else, "let's find out together".
Sometimes I get customers who know exactly what they want and just want to know if we carry it, but more often than not people ask for help because they _don't_ know what they need, and they only have a general idea of the problem they're trying to solve. Most of the time, I'm able to point them in the right direction even though I'm not an expert.
I guess I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say, but bike shop staff should know enough to be able to solve customers' problems, even if they're not total experts in that particular niche. Otherwise, what's the point?
I’m a autistic bike guy too… I feel ya
lol yeah autistic bike person too, i relate
I just had a bike shop come and pick my e bike and then delivered it after repair and tune up - a huge help !
I ride my ebike30 mile a day commute. I had to use my old /spare bike during the repair . The service by Propel located in Brooklyn . They were very thorough and the bike is running like it is brand new. They took the time to ride the bike and call me to make sure that the problem was corrected.
Superb service and great e bike coaching.
There are some great bike shops.
And Chris, the owner of Propel does amazing advocacy videos too!
Sales and services in general are atrocious across most industries in the U.S. It’s why online sales are thriving and the DIY business continues booming. The problems you describe are even worse with car dealers where sales staff are truly uninformed and uncaring because the turnover is so extremely high. There’s also a shortage of capable, experienced mechanics.
However, I did come across a decent local bike shop recently from whom we bought 2 Yamaha e-bikes. The shop keeper spent time with me and my wife for test rides and provided advice. I could have saved a few hundred dollars on shipping and sales tax by ordering online, but this LBS had earned the sale. I also wanted to develop a relationship with this shop for my future services needs. We’ll see if my faith was misplaced (Yelp reviews are polarizingly mixed).
With the way the economy is worsening, more people are going to be inclined to look for cheaper transportation alternatives. Bike shops should really be leaning into affordable commuter and utility bikes. In this day and age, the way you stand out and remain competitive is by adding value. That means having a welcoming atmosphere, and a great customer service experience.
been looking at them today. your lucky if you can find one thst doesnt look like it will break for less than 4k pounds. 2k will get you something substandard. they are all electric which bumps the price up too.
with the way the streets and roads are messed up a gravel bike would be the best bike
I'm in Ireland so not speaking for North America.
I just took delivery of my first e-bike at the end of July. I spent several months going into a lot of different bike shops in a 50 km radius checking out what was available beforehand.
I'm 2 metres tall (over 6'6) and 120 kg so I knew I was going to be limited to a smaller selection of what was available and it would probably have to be a special order too. Which is exactly how it turned out to be.
I wanted what I described as an all round commuter cargo bike lite workhorse (but not an actual cargo bike) and showed photos and videos of what I was doing with my existing ordinary hybrid to warrant that description. A picture really is worth a thousand words sometimes.
I still regularly got directed to the e-road bike and e-mtb sections although that was absolutely what I did not want. Oddly enough for whatever reasons, there seemed to be a pretty large selection of e-road bikes in extra large frame sizes available even though I didn't want one.
I rarely saw family orientated or utilitarian bikes at all in these shops apart from kids bikes.
And 80% of them who said they'd look into availability for something to suit me never made contact again.
They appear to be selling almost exclusively expensive road or mtb bikes for the sport and recreational market or cheap crappy pretend versions of road or mtb bikes for whatever market that is.
I ended up buying from a shop that persuaded me to buy a cheaper model with a less sophisticated but more durable and cheaper to repair drive system.
I'm happy with being persuaded now. And I had to wait several months for the manufacturer to actually make more 62 cm XL frames but that wasn't a problem.
But absolutely, most bike shops are not showing they are very interested in the utilitarian or family end of the market and are missing out on attracting a market that's ready to grow rapidly with additional encouragement.
I’m sorry to hear your experience with all those shops. Sadly it seems to be more common than not :(
My LBS has been so good my whole life that I feel like I’m walking into a family members place. No judgement on the type of bikes I bring them, and most of the time they’ll fix a -5 minute problem with no cost because they know I’ll DIY the next time that problem happens. It helps that I show up during non busy hours, so keep that in mind.
good content!
I'd come to a family bike event. The closest thing to a big casual ride we've had around here was the Tour de Fat a number of year ago. It could be good to do family bike rides to events were streets are closed to cars like Durham's Centerfest, etc.
In a town I used to live in there were 5 or 6 bike shops. Each shop held group rides, mostly mtb, on a different day of the week, and the owners and employees of each shop rode in all the group rides and were all friends. The shops themselves seemingly (probably organically) worked together to develop their own niche markets, one specialized for roadies and xc racers, one for hipsters and crustpunks (steel rigid ss), one for mtb's, and one as an all-around shop. If you asked any of them "what kind of mtb should I get?", their responses usually included an invite to the group rides to see what others in the area were riding. It was a great time to ride bikes. The only shop which didn't do anything with the others was the Trek dealer which is no longer in business.
It's hard when local planners and officials WANT people to depend on cars so they keep bike commuting dangerous by keeping the car dependent infrastructure.
Chicken or the egg sort of issue.
@@aygwm Is it really though? When the authorities WANT people to depend on cars, even when bike commuting will make everything much cheaper, there's a reason for that, and that reason is that they're bought by the gasoline and automobile industry, they're working for them against us.
I think it would be helpful to name some communities you’re referring to. In every mountain town in the US, the opposite it true: very supportive of bikes of all types as a vital part of the transportation network.
2:18: All of this is the same in also every consumer retail industry today and is never going to get better. Businesses are forced to hire any warm bodies because the labor market is so tight. Part of this is due to the disincentives to work which were exacerbated during the pandemic. And proper "training" is not worth the time for businesses and owners because the majority of new hires leave on their own volition within days or months. Having "specialists" is not financially viable because most shops are struggling to even cover the labor costs of a barebones floor staffing model.
I recently bought a new bike (trying transition back to a non assist bike after riding an ebike for 4 years, crazy, right?) I narrowed my choices down by the knowledge and enthusiasm the LBS staff had for the choice I was considering. I bought from the most knowledgeable shop that had a concern for the goals I was setting for this purchase and who engaged and challenged me to think about my choices. In one big brand shop, I felt I was walking on to a car lot.
Well said.
I worked in my LBS downunder in central New Zealand as Service Manager - Head Mechanic and I got sick and tired of one of the largest name brands selling their E - MTB’s with their own engines and having to deal with Local E-Mountain Bike riders who were one to their third or fifth new engine and the bike brand telling me all the time that their e-bike engines were the best on the market.
I pointed out to them that the other brands that we sold, that there e-bike engines would last two or three years and not three or four months at a time!
And in the end, the customers of walk away looking for a more reliable bike brand and only in the late 2021. Would they start saying yes we had a problem and we have now sorting it.
They thought that we as a bike shop will working for them. I did not understand that we were working for the Customer not the bike brand.
Yes!!! Customer first.
Big egos and bad customer service are my very quick indictors of whether a shop is worth bothering with. I’m lucky enough to have several shops fairly close to me, but the closest two are like chalk and cheese. One is a bigger shop with some premium brands for both road and MTB and any time I’ve walked in there I’ve been made to feel like they’re doing me a favour by even looking in my direction, let alone serve me unless I express an interest in spending €10k on whatever bike they have in stock (needless to say I don’t go there anymore). The second shop is much smaller, has no premium brands but they are always happy to see you, always want to help you find a solution to whatever problem you have, have a great mechanic and great pricing. Guess where I go locally now!
I’m also lucky enough to have some cargo bike specific shops near-ish. One of them went out of their way to have some Larry vs Harry posters shipped from another shop in a different city at no extra cost to me, next day delivery and all for the listed in-shop price of the posters. Another cargo shop hosts races at bike shows and festivals. They are very welcoming of new riders to the cargo space, often lending bikes for races as well as also hosting community rides.
If your focus isn’t good customer service (regardless of whether that’s for “just” an inner tube sale or a whole new bike), then I don’t know why you’d open a bike shop. I know a lot of folk who try new shops on smaller purchases first but then go back to buy bikes if they’ve had a good experience. I’m not saying you have to go out of your way to build a cycling community around your shop, but if you’re not willing to listen to your customer and disregard your own preferences in favour of what your customer actually needs, then don’t bother opening in the first place!
The ego LBS is definitely in our area, at the same time I'm fortunate enough that I have choices. There must be enough ego driven people or people that are friends with these types of LBS that they can stay open. An employee's willingness to talk to a customer shouldn't be based on the price what what the customer is spending on a new bike or parts. Approach every customer the same in regard to service regarless if they are purchasing a Rock Hopper or SWorks.
@@mgarcia8540 Yes, I totally agree! Every customer deserves the same level of care and attention regardless of the value of the sale. Every customer has their own needs and if that need is an entry level bike then it's no less valid than someone looking for the latest and greatest.
Wow! Thank for this. Lots of really good info to sort through. I was trained in hospitality, but have worked in many bike shops over my lifetime. Definitely most LBS, need a basic attitude check PLUS proper customer service training.
I’ve spent the last year growing a small (e-bike) repair shop directed at people who bought directly from a brand. Most of them choose D2C because of the upfront price (but not really understanding the long term maintenance aspects) and because the LBS looked down at them at some point in their journey towards cycling. Push bike, e-bike, trike, if people are pedaling, I want to help!
I have had a few very bad experiences and had a shop cause a lot of damage and I had to learn to fix the 5 things they broke. I don’t want to go to any of the 6 shops in my area. Shameful
Jeesh I’m so sorry to hear that
I had to educate my LBS on how to tune up and care for comfort bikes. They neglected the front fork shocks and the the seat stem shock with adjustment and lubrication. The shop ended up firing several employees and the manager and I now have a positive relationship. I give him gifts at Christmas and other times of the year, to let him know he is valuable a part of my world. I now ride more often with more comfort and safety. As an old guy I made this local bike shop better than what they were and I am proud to have done so!
Thank you for your service
I opened my shop in 1993. I needed a few BBs, some brake pads, a box of tools, and a J&B account with their 120 pg catalog. Today their catalog has 86 pages of tires, 7 pages of disc pads, 4 pages of floor pumps and 35 pages of cranks. Wtf
yup, you nailed it. the fragmentation of product has broken the market. it's not economically viable, or able to replicate across thousands of small businesses. it's a collective action problem, that toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Great video. I think there is a ton to learn from Somerville/Cambridge MA. Local test ride events, family rides, an e-bike “library”, active support via a Facebook community, etc.. All of this possible through endless work from a few volunteer leaders who have probably 10x’d cargo bikes in this area in the last few years. Go to any kid event (school, soccer) and it’s crazy how many bikes are now used.
Go Somerville Go !
You just described, to a T, our experience trying to buy an Urban Arrow locally. We went to the store to test ride the bike, but the guy at the store knew nothing at all about it, gave me bad advice about how to use the kickstand, was clueless about any accessories I mentioned. He clearly had never used a cargo bike in his life, and he took me on a Kafka-esque experience over the course of a month as I tried to buy the bike, which culminated in us no longer being able to reach them by phone, then pulling up at the door and finding the store completely empty. We ended up ordering the bike from Toronto, halfway across the continent. But he’s still listed as the Urban Arrow dealer in our province. It doesn’t surprise me at all that his business went under. Our local Kidical Mass group tried to get his shop to bring their Urban Arrows to an event so families could try them out, and the dealer said it wouldn’t be convenient for them. I’ve been a cargo-biking parent here for years and had no idea we had any Urban Arrows locally - THAT’s how disconnected and out of touch they were with our bike community!
😟 this is pretty close to my experience and why I ended up opening a shop.
Hi, same experience here. Love my Arrow, but I do all the servicing etc and buy anything I need out of Europe. The other family who own an Arrow in my city stop and chat whenever we see each other. Ended up buying a Tern for my wife, at least there is a bit more support with multiple dealers here. Have fun, ride safe!
I completely agree with many of the things you mentioned in this video. Here in Australia, I tried to purchase a Tern HSD S00, and after waiting for more than six months, I followed up directly with the brand, but they couldn't give me a delivery date. On the other hand, the shop kept me updated and communicated well. It's almost a $9,000 AUD bike, and I was shocked at how little they cared about me buying one. Instead, I purchased a Riese and Müller Charger 4, even though it didn't necessarily meet all my needs, because the service was better.
Fabulous vid, Arleigh! I'm really digging the family bike community scene that is emerging and growing in Minneapolis. I have an upcoming episode with Laura Mitchell up there that will drop on Friday, Oct 4th. Also, I'd love to have you back on the Pod if and when you're up for it. Keep up the amazing work. Cheers! John 🤗
Laura (as a consumer and advocate) and Perennial (as a bike shop) are doing amazing things up there!
Minneapolis is an amazing place to ride
I think you hit the nail on the head by suggesting that shops are being a bit too passive in waiting for customer to come to them when we can buy practically anything and everything online now.
Starting in the aughts I spent a LOT of time in motorcycle shops, and part of what had me visiting those places all the time was that they organized manufacturer demo rides, new model unveilings, and parking lot events with free food. It definitely got people to show up, and I know I made a few riding buddies as a result. Bike shops can do all of those things. And another thing that local bike shops in my old neighborhood used to do was to coordinate weekend and weekday rides - that’s also a good way to get people to visit the shop and create a sense of community. That was how I got back into riding, mostly road and then gravel, after not really having ridden much since I got really involved with motorcycles.
Coincidentally, I was in a bike shop today to fit myself on an eMTB. The shop didn’t have any from the brand I was interested in stocked, but I did spend 30 minutes talking to a reasonably well-informed sales person who discussed sizing, and provided some meaningful information regarding that brand as well as competing brands they stock. Granted, I’ve just started doing some eMTB research so there’s plenty I don’t know yet, but I can’t count the number of times in the past that I’ve wandered into a bike shop and realized that I know more about the products being sold than the staff. When that happens, part of me shuts down and if I’m doing all the work to figure out what I’m looking for then I’m also going to look for the least expensive option and it’s likely that it won’t be from that bike shop. So, yeah, that was a nice surprise and I’m inclined to go back there again.
I met the ceo of Trek at a “Ride For Our Lives” political demonstration bike ride….. he didn’t shake my hand. And at the end of the conversation when I said this would be cool to do again and maybe I could set one up in my town, he patted me on the shoulder condescendingly. I’m 31. He was so incredibly rude, it makes me totally disenchanted with the brand.
You should have put more money in the envelope mate.
My LBS, Black Arrow Cycles, in Kitchener, ON, is fantastic for their customer service, and for their understanding of bikes as a way to get around, not just a fun hobby thing. Their level of service is why I keep coming back, and why I was seriously impressed when they recommended a different brand of bike than they carried, because it was clear that what I needed (a front-loader cargo bike) wasn't something they sold (although they sell Surly and Yuba long-tails). They were also happy to service the bike I did end up buying elsewhere, and have been fantastic about it.
Great to hear!
I lived in Boulder County Colorado for 38 years. The cycling community and bike shops for the most part are very welcoming. But, there are some serious “SNOB SHOPS” and “SNOB RIDERS”. They look you up and down and their body language is “ don’t talk to me”. I buy my bikes in the shops that give me that warm fuzzy.
Very insightful! This reflects my own experience when I bought my first road bike. Went to a bike shop to a look at some bike I had read reviews about. The owner seemed as if he wasn’t even interested in selling anything.
It’s even worse in those flagship bike stores that seem to pop up in every major city. Mostly clueless salespeople. Why go to a store if people hardly know more than I do.
My LBS has no interest in doing a bike fit, they carry no parts and just want to clerk out bikes. Their service department changed a cassette for me and didn’t bother to adjust the gearing. It’s frustrating.
I quite enjoyed your video outlining the hurdles faced by local bike shops. I have been an avid since Marzocchi released the first Bomber fork (approx 1995). Since then I've seen various parts and accessories that used to be made in Quality focused environments to parts being created in less stringent establishments. Oddly enough, the made in Italy parts that used to cost $600 (fork) and would last 2-4yrs without fail now cost $1400 and they rarely last a full season. This is the case with most new parts being 2-3x as much as parts in the 90's. But the quality has nose dived. Not worth our hard earned dollars. Thank goodness for Pinkbike!
I find it hard to really feel comfortable in many shops and I think the "ego" factor comes into play. The personalities of staff are critical.
I agree wholeheartedly. I am 65 years old and, a year ago, I bought my first Trek ebike. From test riding, the purchase, to service and adding accessories, the Trek store has been excellent. The mechanics are knowledgable and could answer my technical questions right off the bat. I cannot see myself buying from anyone else.
In Portland, traditional, even community supported bike stores are on the decline. Two of those are just about to close, trying to raise money to keep their doors open. In a big cycling city like ours, e-bikes are on the rise, which means that the requirements for bike mechanic knowledge are on the rise. People who are serious about commuting year around, sticking to it even if they are tired or temporarily disabled are interested in e-bikes. Families, including couples with pets, are interested in cargo e-bikes. There are enough used road bikes around so bike stores don't sell much of those any more, instead making a little bit of profit from maintenance, but not enough to survive.
Even some of the best shops can make financial or HR missteps.
Thank you for yet another excellent discussion. Spot on. 🎯 When I bought my Tern HSD Gen2 p5i i wanted to buy and maintain it through my LBS because I had done a lot of research (wanted to be certain before shelling out a lot of money to get best possible quality for my requirements) and knew enough to know that i needed a local specialist to maintain the complexities of the bike. I was astounded to discover (somewhat dismayed) that I knew more about this bike and the Bosch systems than anyone local (still not enough though). I was fortunate that the newish Australian Tern distributor was able to deliver my bike to Canberra so I was able to meet him and ask many more detailed questions. However on the broader issue of improving the cycling community and infrastructure to seriously challenge car driving, there seems to be a lot more required: better integrated and safer cycleways as well as secure bike parking (garages!) in major transport, shopping and CBD hubs as well as in higher density residential areas. Bikes need to be considered as more than recreational vehicles with service and emergency repair facilities like the car industry (recently discovered a local guy who was quite dismayed with the same issues in LBSs as you and he has started up a mobile bike servicing and emergency response business). I’m on the lookout for innovative community events also through the Canberra cargo bike community and Pedal Power (cycling advocacy group). I do think that Bosch and some of the major bike companies could perhaps combine efforts with the community advocacy groups to promote events and hot issues to build up the community and lobby governments for improvements to infrastructure.
The problem in my city is that all the space is allocated to automobile infrastructure making any other form of transportation dangerous and slow.
Arleigh - nailed it. Thanks. We often feel the biggest impediment to growing cycling is sadly the bike industry. You touched on the family category and there's a while more to the story. Let's team up to tell it!
LBS’s should stop hiring roadies to sell bikes. Also, seminars on bike maintenance and bike safety help bring the cycling community together as well as group rides. And I’m not talking about racing groups. I always thought it was a good idea to hire young kids as apprentices. Get them hooked and their friends as well.
I have the opposite experience. The three stores I went to in the Colorado Springs area all were experts in the products. Took lots of time to talk to me about what I need and set up the bike I wanted to try out. And zero pressure to buy.
I went to my local bike shop. They were friendly. They love my brompton Unfortunately, the guy that helped me didn't know anything about Bromptons. I just got my bike and was still learning about it. The guy unfortunately changed the position of my break bars and now my handlebars doesn't lock in. I could go back and have him fix it but I feel little uncomfortable. As soon as I get some tools, I will change it back.
i needed a replacement tube for a family bike, i wanted to support local bike shop (that i got my bike from), when i called to ask if they had one in stock they said they did have it but after they gave me the price for that TUBE ONLY i was SHOCKED i will never ever ever call them back again. I can do a target or walmart order for less $10 and not have to deal with them trying to sell me in "installation" and price gouging on a tube. I couldnt beleive they wouldnt want to get me in the shop at all.
Target and Walmart are behemoth stores that suck the life out of our communities, and the local vendors that used to supply our needs. But for a few pennies saved, you’d rather see a local vendor go under. Enjoy getting a major repair done on your bikes when all the bike shops are gone.
I love my Gazelle electric assist bike that I bought after I researched electric assist bikes at several shops locally. I was previously more allied with the bike coop and the used bike resellers where I had shopped and gotten repairs done for years. I was not impressed with the Trek electric assist bikes the coop was featuring which seemed aimed at some racing enthusiast and not a dedicated all season commuter. I eventually settled on the Gazelle as it did seem clearly engineered to endless miles of enjoyable trouble free commuting. I chose the shop closest to my home who carried Gazelle so repairs and seasonal tire swaps could be as easy as possible. I talk up my bike whenever someone notices it, offer friends a test drive, encourage people to visit the shop I got it at. I still get my road bike repaired at the coop and encourage women looking for help getting properly fitted in a standard bike to go to the coop because they do that well. I encourage price conscious folks to check out the used resellers. I love bikes and wish the US would get much more into bikes for commuting and errand running. Thanks.
Trek has been crushing it with their brand stores. All the things you mentioned. Knowledgeable staff with, Customer Service skills, quick turnarounds on repairs.(they will fix anything) and group rides and events+ they always send a service team to help out at races.
With the local shops it’s hit or miss, with Knowledge and customer service, but they all suffer latency with repair times. Local shop owners and managers should watch your video and take it heart. Thank you for sharing. Make your multi city family rides happen. It will be worth it!
I'm sorry to hear that there are so many mediocre bike shops in your area, but that has not been my experience at all here in Chicago. In the past 18 months, I have bought an e-cargo bike and a non-electric gravel bike from two different local sops, and have had minor repairs done at three others. All of my experiences have been positive. The salespeople I talked to were knowledgeable and happy to spend time with me to help me choose the right bike for my needs. (Shout out to Offbeat Bikes and Boulevard Bikes in Chicago.)
In the area I moved to 3 years ago, Birmingham Alabama, there is one large bike shop that has 4 stores here, one LBS is actually part of a chain, and the sixth LBS is independent. None of them could even do a complete service on my RockSox Recon fork and Monarch shock. I called the local shop where I did live. He told me to text him the serial & model numbers that when the parts came, he could service them in 24 hours. When I picked the bide up he gave Mr the old seals and wipers.
One the most annoying things in the bicycle world is the tribalism. I think it has been exasperated by marketing in the bike industry.
Disagree. The worst thing is terrible in store mechanics.
@@Superteastain If you are not satisfied with work at your local bike shops, learn to do it on your own.
@barryrobbins7694 LOL that's I and other folks do when bike shops can't. So I don't go to the bike shop. So they can't sell me a bike. If the mechanics are good folks go to the shop and then they might buy a bike
@@Superteastain Good bike shops should actually teach customers how to work on their own bike. So they need to have good mechanics to work on bikes and also to teach customers. It builds trust, and some tools can be sold too.
One of the more interesting commentaries I’ve heard about the state of the industry - keep up the great content
They are least 5 LBS in my area, but only one of them will service and even assemble internet purchased e-bikes. Now I know that these bikes are part of the problem, but when buyers feel like they're being gouged by their LBS with the prices on their brands, I understand why purchasers will jump to the online sellers. Here's the thing - after owning a couple of online bikes, I now have a relationship with the shop that will work on them and will likely purchase my next e-bike from them, because I'm ready to spend the extra cash for a brand name. So their past service has driven a future sale.
Are other 4 LBS refusing service and assembling Internet e-bikes because of the higher insurance cost of the e-bike category? I ever read from Reddit that insurance companies have significantly raised the insurance premium of electric bicycles from this year.
as someone who works at a shop, I feel bad having to turn people away, but i've had too many bad experiences where cheap ebikes are so poorly made and have no backend suppourt in the form of diagrams, warranty people, etc (I had one bike where the wiring harness was cut by a piece of the frame while taking the rear wheel off, such poor engineering is unacceptable). that it isn't worth the time. We'll work on anything made with a dealer network in mind, but in my experience nobody is willing to pay for the amount of time it actually takes to work on the cheapo ebikes. And we have had our insurance increased because we work on them, it's definitely a real concern. I hope as the market matures and more standards and regulations come that I can work on every ebike again, but until that day comes i'm happy not having to work on them.
I agree with all of your observations 100%. Plus, I thought that I was being sensitive about the unpalatable attitude of bike shop technicians. Glad to know it was not just me noticing this. I have done business with many bike shops and noticed the commonality in attitudes but tried to ignore it in favour of getting my bike fixed and leaving quickly. Other than that, I tend to do research and then hunt down the bike within my city. So far so good. I HATE ONLINE SHOPPING! However for the gems who show palatable characters, "Thank you!!!". As for your question on how to grow a bike shop, sorry I wish knew. But, I love the idea of a family ride festival. Good luck and thank you for this content. Much needed and appreciated!!!
You're awesome. I bought a bike from you at salvaghettis, now defunct, in Denver. I worked at bike shops for 15yrs . Early 80s to late 90s. One problem with any small business is needing employees to wear many hats. A huge mistake is to interrupt a mechanic to help a customer. It rarely makes for a good interaction.
Mechanics should not be interrupted. That's a human factors red flag and leads to errors.
Well said
I lived through that exact experience on my last purchase, went a little out of my way to buy local and saw these exact issues, highly distracted staff, lack of sales and setup process sent me home with brand new bike that had air in front brake lines and faulty XO derailleur
Hi Arleigh, here's an idea that's catching on here in Britain, the use of a bicycle as a service, our largest bicycle manufacturer is now supplying bikes direct on a subscription basis, for less than most gym memberships, a flexible rolling monthly or on an annual contract. This service includes bicycle protection insurance and two professional services per year (with a temporary replacement until your bike is returned) included in the monthly rental fee. My shiny brand new steed was delivered in August, six speeds and dynamo lighting which folds in three to a very compact size, ideal for cycling to the nearest bus stop, hop off and cycle to the nearest rail station and explore a new city or go visit family in London! On top of which our Parish Council actively encourage active mobility and we hold a community bike maintenance pop ups at local village events to help our neighbours on a practical basis and offer advise and quite often recycle bicycles into the community for free,
sounds good
I am glad that the SF Bay area has The New Wheel. Knowledgeable and kind staff who answered all my newbie questions and let me try a range of ebikes until I found the one I like best. Not snobby, and def interested in commuter biking
One little idea I tried to share with a local bike shop. Have bike shop T shirts. Make sure you have from XS-5X. This is the US. Have them for sale, cheap, ideally at cost. Every time someone buys a bike, they get a t-shirt for free. Too complicated for them.
It had been 30 years since I owned a bike and this changed a couple of months ago when I decided it was time to enjoy cycling again. I binged researched on UA-cam and google and full of enthusiasm headed out on a mission to purchase a bike. I live in Australia and in the first two stores I entered customer service was completely absent, not even a greeting. Both stores had one other customer in them but I wasn't of any importance apparently lol. I walked out of the first large flashy Trek showroom thinking this sucks, not spending my money here. I threw the second store a lifeline as they were a small business and approached the owner, explaining that I was interested in possibly buying a bike. Out of the four local stores I visited only one offered a greeting and service on walking in.
I myself work for a camping and outdoors retailer and wouldn't even think of offering such vague levels of customer service or a lack of greeting.
What I experience here in Los Angeles is large indy bike shops that carry all the newest biking eye candy is this PERVASIVE elitist attitude which I expect and accept; its like walking into a auto dealership. Especially in shops that deal almost exclusively with MTB clientele who have the money to spend, the techs who usually man the counter as well, don't want to bother with me and my quasi-vintage Flintstones 9 speed. They want me to buy a new $5K bicycle or would you please, GTFO of the store because they're too busy souping up mechs for the well-heeled MTBer. I kind of laugh at it and then go over to my grimy neighborhood Bike Shop which is a true neighborhood joint they'll fix anything you wheel in gladly.
Great video! People will travel for a good shop with people that care and are knowledgeable. I have a great shop for mountain biking and commuting oriented cycling, but we will drive 2 hours to go to a shop that specializes in bikepacking and touring. As an older guy riding bicycles, I’ve found I really appreciate someone who understands bike fitting!