The Extremely Bizarre Engineering Rituals of Canada (And the Fascinating Way They Came to Be)
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2021
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Sources:
Andrews, Gordon, Canadian Professional Engineering and Geoscience: Practice and Ethics, Thomson Nelson Canada Ltd, 2005
Kipling, Rudyard, The Hymn of Breaking Strain, 1935, www.cuug.ab.ca/~branderr/risk_...
2 Esdras 4:5-10, thekingjamesversionbible.com/...
Bateman, Chris, The Secrets of Engineering’s Strange and Mysterious Initiation Ritual, TVO, April 24, 2018, www.tvo.org/article/the-secre...
Background: The Calling of an Engineer, The Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer, www.ironring.ca/background-en/
Anderson, Bill, Why Engineering is Purple, April 16, 2019, profbillanderson.com/2019/04/...
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Were you serious about running 84 channels? I'm only subscribed to 47 of your channels, so where's the rest?
@@pakde8002 Foreign language editions......
And Canada, we take shit seriously....
VPNs don't hide your data, they move it to somewhere else
@@smoothbraindetainer I'd trust "somewhere else" over my ISP any day.....
Holy moly Simon! 84 channels? Where are you hiding the rest? I thought I was subscribed to everything 🧐🤨
As a Tradesman and Construction Consultant I worked with literally hundreds of Canadian Engineers over the years and like anything else, there were good ones and bad ones. Most of the bad ones were the younger recently graduated ones and many of their designs were simply too elaborate for purpose or simply could not be built. One thing though that was always consistent with these Canadian Engineers was the staunch refusal to do anything that was illegal or substandard to the applicable codes. Whenever a client tried to "cheat" they were told that if they continued to pursue that avenue they would soon find that few, if any, would work for them and no one would ever put their stamp on the drawings that were created.
There was one notable French company though that constantly broke the rules and felt they were above them. On more than one occasion I heard, "Well that's how we do it and we have done it all over the world that way." My response to this argument was simply, "Well that may be true, but Canada is not some third world country where you can get away with cutting corners." It should be noted that no Canadian Engineers were on this project. Instead, the French Company had brought in their own in house engineers from Poland via their Engineering arm in Germany. They were, for the most part, fairly competent but there were some things that they attempted to do that fell afoul of the law.
There was one set of drawings for piping assemblies that had been provided by a Supply Contractor that were not stamped. When I talked to them they said they would supply stamped drawings when they got paid for the work they had already done. Seems the French Company didn't like paying their bills either. One day one of my charges came into my office and told me that one of the Polish engineers was trying to find a piece of software that would allow him to poach a "Beaver" stamp from other digital drawings and then paste it to the unstamped digital drawings we had inhouse. I went into the Polish Engineers office and told him that should he try to paste someone else's stamp on a drawing he would be found guilty of fraud and receive a prison sentence prior to being deported back to Poland. I also told him that I would inform the Police should he actually do it and be a witness against him in court. He didn't take this well but he got the message, or so I thought. About an hour later the head engineer was in my office explaining that "They had done this all over the world and never had a problem." I told him they now had a problem and I was prepared to blow the whistle on them should they keep trying. He left my office in a foul mood.
In my time there, I uncovered some other glaring inconsistencies which eventually became one of my reasons for resigning and going elsewhere. To be quite blunt, I found the entire company to be Toxic in their ways of doing things. Before I left though, I had documented all of their devious activities and sent out three copies to Canadian Engineers working with the Client so they could be aware of some of the things that were being done. The client had issues of their own with The French Company and ran them off site three months later with payment being withheld for work done until the work could be evaluated and the client was assured that all was well. I don't know if that partially completed plant ever opened for operation or was ever paid for.
The next site I went to had the exact same plant being built by the same French Company but there was a difference. It seems that word went round like wildfire about their antics on the other site and the Client had in formed them that they must contract it out to a reputable Engineering Firm and hire a reputable Canadian Contractor to build it or they could simply go and peddle their product elsewhere. That plant was built and operates today, however, there were lots of cost over runs and the French Company took a loss on it as it was to have been turnkey.
Moral of the story is "These Cheaters didn't prosper."
I am an American PE who worked for years in Canada. Your experiences and mine were very similar. I have the feeling that the engineering business in North America fell apart about 20 years ago.
Sounds like the rituals are working.
@@edwardcdg About the time non credited "schools" who were more interested in making money than teaching anything started popping up all over the place.
Scary stuff
Was that company SNC ?
No fucking surprise if it is
I've been to 2 of the rituals. My own in 1985 and my daughter's in 2019. It is an impressive ceremony that does impress the responsibility of the career on each engineer.
I learned it better in the military as an aircraft mechanic rather than over a decade later after graduating as an engineer. We were instructed in the Air Force as a maintainer that anything that went wrong with the aircraft that resulted in injury/death of the pilot and/or damage/loss of property would land us in Federal prison for many years if they could even trace a little bit back to the maintainer. In any other job, the worst you got was getting fired and getting fined. Us maintainers were threatened with prison or even death depending on the degree of negligence or willfulness of the disastrous end result. Even without the threat of imprisonment or death, the vast majority of us wouldn't have been able to live with ourselves if the person who trusted in our work were to die by our hands.
The ceremony does more to give an air of gravitas and the inductee a feeling of importance which was admitted by the folks that started the entire process, is completely lacking in general society. This video states that the engineers that started this whole thing felt that engineers didn't get the attention or credit that they deserved, so it doesn't surprise me that they instead create this induction ceremony to give the new blood a sense of importance and self-respect that may end up lacking later on throughout their careers because the fact of the matter is, general society doesn't care that you're an engineer. Mechanics and other tradesmen tend to get more attention for their work than even engineers do other than people think of engineers in a better light as far as pay and job responsibility.
Maybe what would be better for engineers to impress upon them their responsibilities is to have engineers regularly meet and interact with the folks who'll be using their product. If the design engineer on an aircraft were forced to regularly visit and interact with the test pilots and even befriend them, that'd go a long way to reinforcing moral foundations. It's when you lock said engineers away in a closet for years and people start becoming numbers that you start to see things "slip."
Do they embrace the silliness or does the ceremony try to stay serious? I mean are they self aware or do they take it seriously? I know engineers are the tip top pinnacle of ego stroking but this is laughable.
@@Diditallforthexp A bit of both.
@@Diditallforthexp no it is very serious and I think helpful. It initiates the new engineer into their responsibilities which are very serious. Think about that the next time you get on a plane or elevator or cross a bridge. The regulating authorities (in Canada at least) also drill safety and public responsibility the engineer's ego. No worries about that and of course there is also the real world that further drills the lessons of failure into one's head. Like the ring we start out sharp edged and brash and are beaten down over time to become responsible. Also note any truly serious responsibilities for engineers are double and triple checked and not left in the hands of junior engineers. We don't laugh at those.
Great to hear of two lady Engineers in the comments! That's a good indication that women are getting more accepted into the profession.
Optimist - glass half full
Pessimist - glass half empty
Engineer - glass is twice as big as it needs to be
Opportunist: Drinks the contents of the glass while the others are arguing about whether it's half full or half empty.
I've always disagreed with this one. As an engineer, I'd say the glass has a safety factor of 2.
Process engineer: "the glass is halfway to another full glass."
@@danbert8 the glass is 100% full. 50% liquid, 50% gas
@@danbert8 exactly what I was thinking, lol
Having been through the Ritual of the calling of an Engineer, yes it is like joining a cult. Proud Engineer here from the University of Waterloo
UofT (that’s Toronto, not Texas, for you American viewers) engineer here.
“Cult”. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. 🤷♂️ Cheers! 😎
I'm gonna be honest. This absolutely sounds like a cult I would like to join.
A cult of workmanship! (UofA)
the best cult to join
Waterloo Civil 85 here, and I keep my framed copy of the obligation on my office wall and my ring on my finger all these years later even though I’m not an engineer any more.
There is a saying in my school... "When a Doctor makes a mistake, one person dies. When an Engineer makes a mistake... thousand may persish."
There's another saying among engineers: "Engineers don't get to bury our mistakes."
@Connor Hoskins, that would be number of engineers. Engineers are not sold by the pound.
Presumably a poorly-conceived laundry basket won't lead to any deaths.
@Connor Hoskins "may" not "will"
Can you imagine the devastation if a ChemE for J+J messed up and the shampoo did cause tears…
@@FernandoThegreat, just thinking about it makes me cry.
I love how the Engineering authority has a beaver as a symbol.
It's the same with Combat Engineers on the Canadian Army. Gotta be clever to make those Beaver dams😀
The symbols of both the maple leaf and beaver were incorporated in the cap badge of Canadian engineers in WW 1, well before either became official symbols
The mascot of Naval Air Station Norfolk Virginia is or was when I was in a ( rather badly drawn ) beaver
The beaver is Canada’s national animal.
It’s also appropriate that they are one of the few animals in nature besides humans that alter their environments to suit them.
Even if it wasn't Canadian the beaver would still be a very apt symbol for Engineers, but as it's also Canada's national animal I couldn't imagine it being anything else.
As someone who has a degree with “BSc” written on it, and a job title with “Engineer” in it, I’ve always liked the line the Canadians draw here. Of course, my degree also has “Computing” written on it, which automatically puts me in a strange grey area between science, engineering, mathematics and art. Still, I applaud the line the Canadians have drawn and would like to see standards that should be met, to be called an engineer, outside of Canada.
From what I have seen of programmers, heaven help us all!
@@gobblinal Oh yes. Here there be the kind of chaps (and chapesses) who sit around a camp fire, eating beans.
@@BrianBeckman In Canada even with an engineering degree you can't call yourself an engineer without an engineering license.engineerscanada.ca/frequently-asked-questions
There are plenty of job postings that use the title illegally as it's not policed very frequently.
I work as a Software Developer (not a Software Engineer) because my work doesn't want to be fined for infringing on the title. My last company was American owned so they used engineer in their titles.
I remember a forum (well Usenet; yes I'm that old😔) thread where a Canadian P.Eng threw a pretty major hissy fit over finding out that some people call themselves " Software *Engineers* ". I always thought that was a bit strange but after seeing this video now I know why. 🙂
At one time being a Computer Engineer meant you designed chips, not software.
I proudly wear my ring everyday, and lived pretty close to the Quebec Bridge when I was studying at Laval University. It’s a great reminder that what we do and the decisions we make actually matter, and lives can be at stake.
Ditto, I wear only two pieces of jewelry, one is my wedding ring, the other is my iron ring.
My daughter, when she received her Ring with her B. Eng., was specifically told the metal in her ring was from the Quebec bridge Iron as a constant reminder of what is truly at stake with her work. Maybe not true but it did put a maturity to her Engineering work. Maybe still today, I never ask her about that.
When I got mine (in 1985) a few of the rings in very small and very large sizes were very different from the ones most of us got. Supposedly they were the ones from the original Quebec bridge. One woman in my class had small enough hands to get one of them.
@@PaulTomblin Thank you, I thought that might have been the case as my daughter has, well "woman sized" small fingers.
With regrets, I must tell you that none of rings are made from steel / iron from the collapsed bridge. Very different alloys.
Mine was a stainless steel ring. One guy in my class got the “iron” ring which is much thicker than the SS ring. It could have been from the bridge (probably not) but it rusts and makes a brown stain on your ring finger, lol.
@@robertlazorko7350 All I know is what I was told by her. Her ring was made of the metal from that collapsed bridge, while other grads did not get rings from the bridge metal. The Engineering Department, in the "ceremony" made a really big thing about her ring in particular. I see no good reason they would lie to her over such a thing. But then I see no good reason for your information to be in any way false but would be interested in your source to help me decide for myself. Thank You
The UBC Engineering students have a history of hanging VW Beetles off of bridges in Vancouver such as the Lion's Gate Bridge, but apparently on Feb. 5, 2001 they went one better, by hanging a bug off the Golden Gate Bridge mid-span without anyone noticing them doing it.......they also painted a Maple Leaf on the Bug in order to leave no doubt who had done the deed.
They also once stole the Rose Bowl trophy, after it had been won by the University of Washington in 1992. It was returned after being discovered being used as a beer stein in the UBC Engineering club house. UW later stored it in a "Canadian Proof" trophy case.
@@nonenowherebye these guys a Engineers if they want to open the "Canadian proff case" they will find a way
Ah the good ol' days. Skulk Night was always a blast!
I once heard UBC’s iron rings were made from recovered metal from the Second Narrows Bridge collapse. Is that true?
Also, as a former Arts student, sorry about the ‘E.’ 😉 I never partook but I think I saw the thing being repainted every week.
@@weeturtle8058 I have no idea, I studied Criminology and Logistics, wasn't smart enough to become an Engineer......
When I graduated from Electrical Engineering at the U of T in 1970 I learned that Kipling wrote a lot of ceremonies for different groups besides the Engineers, such as Boy Scouts and Girl Guides. Like all resourceful people if he had something that was good he would use it for more than one group. Apparently, there are some lines in both the Iron Ring ceremony and the Girl Guides' "Fly Up" ceremony from Brownies to Guides. My lab partner who was standing in front of me and who was a guide leader said that this is almost the same ceremony as the guides used and told us the Brownies' reply before we were to say our proper reply. The Ceremony was almost cancelled when the Master asked us by "What right do you come?" when half of us shouted back "By the right of our Brownie Wings." He had no sense of humour.
Indeed. If you were a Cub Scout then the “ritual” will be very familiar
I'm in engineering technician and far too often I have to remind new graduates that their pinky ring doesn't make them better than other people it's to remind them to be humble and listen to the Tradesman before they kill a whole bunch of people
Both of my parents are engineers. They told me that the ring is a reminder of their responsibilities because it knock on the table each time they sign (approve) plans or documents.
I love this!
I was once told it was for engineers, who pick their nose, to know when to stop..
I've been told also, that as they perform their duties, the rough edges of the ring get worn down, symbolically showing how their rough edges are worn down as they get better and wiser.
This was what I was told when taking the oath as well
@@cmck17 You just don’t quit! Some engineer must have really kicked YOUR butt for screwing up! Maybe YOU should stop complaining about engineers and get an engineering degree to see what we really do!
Equal important is the engendering song “we are we are we are the engineers, we can we can we can demolish 40 beers🎶”
absolutely remember that
drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum with all of us, for we don't give a damn for any old man who don't give a damn for us
Huh, I remember it as 1000
That is an excerpt from the Lady Godiva song. Another excerpt "Godiva was a lady who Coventry did ride, to show all the villagers her fair and lily white hide. The most observant person there, an engineer of course, was the only one to notice that Godiva rode a horse!" chorus
That sounds expressly Aussie to me, without properly ending the line: "...we can demolish 40 beers, eh."
In my second year of engineering, I bought gentian violet at a pharmacy somewhere near CFB Petawawa. The pharmacist had some questions for me before he would sell it, because I was the first one to ask for it in over 20 years! He said it had been used in the past for poison ivy.
Pro tip: stained clothing can be cleared with exposure to sunlight.
Fun fact: Similar to your purpled clothing, amethyst will clear with prolonged exposure to sunlight until it is completely transparent quartz. Though that often takes a significant amount of time.
@@LeoHKepler Natural amethyst will NOT loose its colour. Amethyst that has been heat treated with intense heat or radiation to boost the colour by unscrupulous gem dealers (which is VERY common and VERY difficult to detect) can loose its colour since the process does not produce a stable result. If you heat treat amethyst improperly, it can also turn green, becoming a stone known as prasiolite. Natural amethyst will not fade or change colour under normal conditions
By the way, I have seen in Canada some places selling amethyst carved pipes for smoking cannabis and/or hash. Needles to say, due to the above mentioned information, I would not buy them for actual use since the heat shocks from all those toking sessions can't be good for the colour.....
@@danielperson5021 In that context you're certainly right. However there are amethysts formed naturally by the heat of wildfires in quartz-rich soil. We have those here in Washington in areas where the quartz is practically littered on the forest floor. From tiny little shards and terminations to crystals longer than your finger.
The kinds that wont lose its color are fairly rare quartz with aluminum impurities. Often very cool to find, since they can come in geodes or plates of crystals.
As for the pipes... I had no idea they made such a thing. I probably would have been into that in college.
@@LeoHKepler Washington represent 🙌
@@danielperson5021 Daniel Person speaks the truth. This I know. Mind you, Daemon Wilson has a very interesting comment, and I want to make a visit to Washington State now once this Covid BS is over with. I will have to search these areas out, but as amethyst is my birthstone and purple is my favourite colour and I live in Vancouver, a trip down south is definately in the cards.
When I was in university, while students of other disciplines mingled freely, the engineering students were their own group. I always thought it was because they studied 14 hours a day and had no time for anything else, but hearing it described as a "cult" makes a lot of sense.
How does a weird ritual at the *end* of *fourth* year affect the behaviour of students prior to this? Unless - you don’t suppose - they have engineered a time machine: they travel forward in time, take the ritual which makes them part of the cult, then go back to first year frosh! AH HA!!! 😜
Males tend to be more interested in things than people compared to women. Engineers take that tendency to an much higher level and make it their own. No wonder other students are not drawn to mingle with them. And yes, I am an EE. I resemble this remark.
At UBC the engineers started at 41 class hours the first year and this increased depending on what discipline they were in. As the average arts student has 15 hours ……………..I think your first assumption was correct.
@@haldorasgirson9463 Although I had to take a break from school, having a daughter otw. I too, resemble that statement.
@@PeterMosier
In Alpha Epsilon Delta Pre-Health-Professions Honor Society candidates (neophytes) must work through their curriculum with good grades till third year, thus attaining the requirements to earn this initiation. I'd say these engineers are required to show the same kind of achievement to be a neophyte for Professional Engineer.
When I first got into I.T., you had to get your Novell Netware certification through the company and graduates were bestowed with the title "Certified Netware Engineer" or CNE. But real engineers raised holy hell about that and Novelll dropped the title.
I saw a few years worth engineering students running around campus. It seemed like alcohol was an equally important part of the process. Looked like it was a good time!
A buddy of mine who is an engineer now used to go to raves almost every weekend back in the day hahaha. Incredibly bright guy who partied like Jon Belushi.
I don't think alcohol is a particularly unimportant part of _any_ process involving college students.
Engineering students are notoriously second only to medical students in drunken debauchery.
"I run like 84 channels..." lol! Finally, he acknowledged the absurdity.
What a beautiful idea! I was raised to believe that regardless of your profession, the way you perform your job is a direct reflection on you as a person. Engineering is a critical field and I love that Canada views it with the seriousness that it deserves. Thank you!
Holy shit, Today I Found Out Simon can heal a clavicle in less than 24 hours. What a Megaproject.
@@alanball6691 nah, definitely adamantiun.
Cyborgs man. $6 million man has nothing on the Whistlertron
he blazed it away
at Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, purpling the engineering frosh includes dyeing their leather university jackets. These jackets are expensive, but very common for students to wear, so everyone can see who is an engineering student for the rest of their students.
Purpling would fit right in at Western (UWO), since purple and white are the school colours
I'm from Kingston. I remember seeing Queen's engineering students during frosh week... dyed purple, walking down Princess Street wearing coveralls, dyeing their yellow leather jackets purple, and beating the jackets against the road to scuff them up... make them look weathered. Definitely an interesting group.
@@jasoncrobar724 Queen's Engineer here...we say they are gold, not yellow, and can be referred to as "Golden Party Armor".
@@badidea12341 I guess we were more casual in the 70s. Used to call them pee-yellow between each other! We never purpled our jackets. They were not even available to us until 2nd semester and they remained undecorated until the year patch was designed and produced. You then got your pass patch after getting out of first year and the discipline crest upon entering 2nd year and deciding what which type of engineering you were going to specialize in. One tradition was to sleep wearing your jacket the first night you got it. I still have my jacket 46 years after graduating, although I haven’t been able to fit into it for years and the leather is pretty well dried out.
As a practicing engineer for over three decades, I think the idea of an "obligation" is great! I find that I am often reminding younger engineers that what they do, if done incorrectly, can hurt people or themselves. I'm not a huge fan of ceremony for ceremony sake, but I do think something similar to the Hippocratic Oath would be a good thing.
That said, a lot engineers make their livings designing and building weapons, so...yeah...there's that...
Eh, seeing the skulduggery that goes on in medicine, I'm actually more impressed by engineering "obligation" and would hope they maintain their own traditions.
Medical could actually learn a lot from them.
I think the engineering obligation is to make sure that a malfunction won’t harm people, for defence that would be like making a bomb that blows up when it’s not supposed to and kills the people who are suppose to deploy it. So it harming people who are targets, while not great, is technically fine.
The picture at 12:40 is not from the Canadian ceremony, it is from the bad copy from the US.
I dunno if it's a "bad copy" -- I went through it almost 30 years ago, and still take it seriously.
@@rcrawford42 Same, though mine was only 7 years ago.
Time to sue the USA I guess... Again
At Queen's university (maybe others too?) they dye their school leather jackets with it as well. I've always wanted one.
They also fine whole dorm floors for the staining, and first year engineers are legitimately savage beasts in the worst way.
Yes, had one young engineer with his stained leather jacket up at Lupin.
The queen's scam
They forgot the part were you swear an oath to the queen of England and she the one that sents you the ring also you pay extra taxes which why that engineer flies into the Texas IRS
I wear my ring from Camp One. We were told the iron ones were from the metal of the bridge but I opted for the stainless steel version. It's also cool for drumming on the top of a desk in boring meetings.
Ritual of the calling is also known as Kipling day. Best known as engineers pranking day. At McMaster University, I can recall each spring the engineers coming up with some heinous pranks that sent clocks running backwards or just randomly rolling back a couple hours, vehicles mounted to the sides of buildings, and dry erase marker notes vaporizing on the whiteboard before our astonished eyes. Good times.
I graduated as a MechE from UNL and we had the "Order of the Engineer" based on the Canadian engineering practices. I still wear my pinkie ring every day, it's pretty neat.
Same, I graduated with a CompE degree from TTU and we also had the "Order of the Engineer" ceremony.
I also wear my ring every day, but I need to order a new one. I've lost a lot of weight during quarantine and mine tends to just fall off now lol
We had the Order of the Engineer as well at uiuc. I gotta find my ring.
I’m Canadian and had no idea it was handled it this significant a manner. Glad that it is though! Engineering students at my university (University of Toronto) paint themselves purple and run around campus… 😐
Very similar requirements to become a Professional Engineer in the US...I graduated over 50 years ago...no ceremony or ring, but I understand some schools have now started that tradition. I was a registered PE in two states.
Proud of you George♥️
In my university they now have a similar experience. In the US it is called the Order of the Engineer with the same pinky ring. Not sure how many universities follow this ritual.
@@brandonandreen5784 I will be graduating in the U.S. next spring. This is my first learning of it,.
@@hbrock0094 My university also had it. I also didn't learn of it until a couple of months before graduating. If you're eligible I recommend going for it. All it costs is the price of the ring and about 1-2 hours for the ceremony, but for me it gives a whole lot of extra meaning to my work
I'm curious, which type of engineer are you? I'm a Chem E and work in Nuclear Power who's safety culture I'd put up against any others and I've licensed with the NRC, so I've worked with every type of Engineer I've ever heard of and I have NEVER heard of this.
Great video! I have an extremely minor and pedantic quibble, typically individual engineers don't get issued their own stamps, although you can request them (though they are highly regulated, so I think you need to keep it in a safe, because unauthorized use is considered fraud). Usually, an engineering firm will have a stamp, and only qualified professional engineers are able to use said stamps.
Something I find really interesting about engineering ethics is that, not only are you required to only produce quality workmanship, but you also have an Obligation of Understanding. This means that "I didn't know that would be a problem" is not a valid excuse. You are obligated to know the limits of your own knowledge, and to speak up when you are not qualified to be making a certain decision. Most typically this is when there is a multi-disciplinary team of engineers, not just any engineer can approve any change, it needs to be an engineer who is qualified in that area. It's a really interesting way to require a certain amount of introspection in your regulation, because you can be held accountable for assuming you know more than you actually do.
I’m a Swedish engineer, and we also earn the right to bear a ring on graduating. However, it is not an integral part of the ceremony.
Engineers and doctors (of any faculty) bear rings in Sweden. It is somewhat less common at other faculties.
They are however (to my knowledge) exclusively gold rings.
I later went on to do a doctorate in the UK, so sadly there was no ring involved in that. At least I got a funny hat (and the right to wear a ceremonial robe).
An example of the difference in engineering standards can be seen in the international bridge maintenance schedules that are signed off by engineers on either side of a bridge. The American sides are almost always rustier than the Canadian side. The result of years of extra rust can be seen in older bridges where the steel shows more divots and chunks that have rusted out and were painted over.
One of my colleagues would often remind young Engineers: "you must approach every single decision you make as a practicing Engineer with the assumption that eventually you're going to have to defend it in court."
I learned something new today. I suppose it's possible that I may have heard of this tradition had I ever known any engineers-to-be in school but as I didn't, my thanks to you, Simon.
The Dutch title ingenieur is similarly protected. If you're a college-educated engineer, you're allowed to abbreviate it to ing., while research university-educated engineers can abbreviate it to ir. There aren't really these types of rituals involved though.
Same goes for Germany, you need a full-grown degree to be called "Ingenieur". I always find it funny when Americans call themselves "engineer" without ever attending a university/college in a technical discipline. Mostly, it would translate to "machinist" oder "technician".
BTW: In many cases, even the job title "technician" ("Techniker") is legally protected in Germany. For example, a state-certified technician of mechatronics you need three years of vocational training and another two years of professional training.
Unfortunately those terms have been basically ended by the introduction of the Bachelors/Masters system. There's afaik no educational program left that will now allow it's student to use the terms Ing. or Ir. I missed out by 2 years unfortunately and can only use the rather pointless BSc of Mechanical Engineering. Which isn't protected and not nearly as respected.
@@TheAverageDutchman Funny thing: In Germany, you could get the permission to use the job title "Ingenieur" with your foreign BSc. There are laws that everyone with a college degree (3 or more years) in technical disciplines may use it. You would still use the abbreviation like "Kloppertjes, BSc." but you could write "Mechanical Engineer Kloppertjes, BSc." on your business card.
See now, THIS is a great video about things I didn't actually know before. Thank you.
Some US universities partake in this ritual as well. I still wear my Steel Ring everyday. It reminds me of my obligation even as I am buried deep in the details just trying to get something done while management pushes for progress at every update meeting. It clangs against every flat surface, reminding me that ethics and morals must guide me more than my desire to meet a deadline.
Not only universities; in my case the local ASME section organized it one year.
I'm still confused, is this just a CE thing? I'm a ChemE and couldn't wear that ring at work and wouldn't if I was able to lol. Hell the damn thing would have been eaten away by now and take my finger along with it lol.
You think the ring is weird, you should go to their parties 😬
Surprised the author didn’t mention the graduation engineering pranks that involve feats. Like getting a VW Beatle into insane places
@@dmacpher I've done this. U of S graduate here. Sadly folks don't seem to do those pranks anymore since the advent of social media and photographs
@@dmacpher Also to clarify, these 'stunts' as we called them were primarily for 1st year students supervised by sr students to help indoctrinate them to being weird and creative. Graduates rarely took part in these 'stunts' as it might reflect poorly upon job prospects.
@@Mechanix5424 thanks for the response! I couldn’t imagine first years getting a VW Bug on top of a building - but I guess they just disassembled it and hauled it up.
@@dmacpher Yes that's exactly what was done. It was stripped down to the chassis, disassembled, and moved to the roof via utility elevators in the Agriculture building. We also welded a van around a tree in the 'bowl' on campus and hung a civic from a bridge. Better times I tell ya. By the way, railway bridges are private property and not municipally owned it turns out.
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thought the engineering rituals were bizarre. I did not grow up knowing about it, until college, and WOW
A friend of mine years ago was taking engineering while working part time at my job. When he told me this stuff I thought he was f*cking with me hahahaha
Its part tongue in cheek, part very serious, just like most engineers. But i doubt that you think the hippocratic oath is bizarre, and engineers can affect at least as many lives.
@@philipaubin4679 its very much the rituals and the anvil ceremony that are bizaare
@@summerhallow7648 Its ceremony and now tradition. Its not the skull and bones society ;)
@@philipaubin4679 you seem defensive. Are you ok?
The Oath of the Engineer also happens here in the US. At my college (ERAU) we had an Oath of the Engineer ceremony before graduating
Yes, I have been through the ceremony at ERAU as well. Still appears to be rare in the US. Most either don't know the significance of the ring or think I'm Canadian.
@@infurious5748 As did I! I still have yet to meet someone in the field who wears the ring, whom I did not personally go through school with.
Congratulations on the new shirt! I look forward to seeing it in many, many, many future videos!
So I’m a Canadian and both my parents are engineers. They’ve told me about their very secret ceremony (though never with any details) and the story behind the iron rings. They have some pretty hilarious stories about pranks they’ve pulled too!
I’ll be honest, I had no idea that was just a Canadian thing. I legit thought that all engineers around the world were in on this mystery not-cult and I was so excited to one day become an engineer myself, travel the world and flash my ring at other engineers while we exchanged coy, knowing smiles… ah well
The Québec bridge is an engineering marvel who's current owners are shamefully letting rust into ruin. 😔
Because its in Quebec
@@yellow9904 that is a sus thing to say
@@TheForgottenBozo sus is not a word. Engineers are required to speak full plain English in order to facilitate the transportation of ones idea to port in another's. Know what I mean?
@@TheForgottenBozo it’s not tho, when you look at the history of radically new and progressive infrastructure in Quebec being neglected.
@@cmck17 Not that Quebec's infrastructures are that well taken care of, but Quebec's bridge is actually the property of the CN (Canadian National Railway).
Well neato keen! I didnt know this. Thanx Simon.
My father is a P.Eng (retired) who explained the significance of his silver engineering ring to me when I was young. Interestingly, he also told me that here in Canada other Engineers from elsewhere in the world often have a ring made for themselves, so they have one too. It's a personal preference of course, as we learned today - they are distributed upon graduating from a Canadian University program (and to some extent American).
Besides the reading of the obligation and the receiving of the ring, I don't remember any of that other Simon talked about stuff... but it's been over 25 years.
yes exactly my recollection but i remember the chain.
McMaster University is pretty close to me and I noticed all the engineering students wear leather jackets that say "engineering" on them... I want one, I just don't want to go to school
Not everyone engineer has one at Mac. Honestly, I think they don’t look that nice
Cringe
You can probably just purchase one. They didn’t ask for proof of registration at the off-campus leather jacket store when I bought mine (Toronto). They just wanted to get paid, and know what you want stitched on the sleeve.
I see a lot of engineering shirts and the like around the city.
Anyone can buy the jackets
I'm a Canadian architect. When I graduated from the Technical University of Nova Scotia (now part of Dalhousie University) we had a ring ceremony. Local practising Architects purchased silver pinkie rings for the graduates. The ceremony highlighted our social & professional responsibilities but it didn't have any of the masonic overtones. It is now 34 years that that ring has been on my finger. I'm often asked by those who notice the ring if I'm an Engineer and without exception it leads to a friendly conversation. Many Canadians, at least, are familiar with why Engineers have their rings and their profession is widely held in high regard.
I don't remember any purpling going on when I was in school. Our big thing was the Engineering Head Shave to raise money for cancer research.
I was getting ready to point out that the ritual and the ring aren't required to practice engineering but you had it in there at the end. Very good.
I don’t remember purpling in 1985 at Waterloo. It’s was the math students going around dying things pink.
I think it’s an eastern Canada thing - haven’t seen it out west.
It's similar to Spain in that we just don't go around calling everyone an "engineer", you are only an engineer if you have a degree or a high degree of expertise.
here it's even more, you need to be part of the order or they'll sue you for impersonating
In New Zealand they have no regulation of the title/use in a business name, hence plenty of welding and maintenance companies without a single engineer on staff call themselves things like "city name mechanical engineering" or "Joe's precision engineering".
@@mtnbikeman85 quebec says that the title of engineer automatically makes people trust whatever you say, just like a doctor, so that's why it's regulated. Also there's a bridge that fell twice cuz the guy in charge ignored some stuff
@@crissto8591 I know... It makes me sad that Engineer means nothing here, especially as we're the southern hemisphere's Canada. Nurses and EMTs can't call themselves Doctors. This isn't to discount the very important and valuable work they do.
Up until relatively recently, to get a passport in Canada you had to have your identity confirmed by specific trades: doctors, dentists, university professors, lawyers or engineers. I think it was because of their designation. Canadians don’t need to follow such strict rules anymore, but it shows the importance of the designation of engineers in Canada.
It wasn’t just engineers. If you have a “professional” designation, you were able to vouche for someone on their passport. A profession geologist was also able to do this. A post master was also able to vouche for someone on their passports and they require no education for their position. It was more so someone whose job required them to be sworn in.
Just after I graduated they changed the requirements - I was so looking forward to being special enough to sign a passport - now they let anyone do it.
In Britain, although they don't respect engineers and allow anyone to call themselves one, the "European Engineer" title (shortened from the German to Eur Ing) is allowed to be put into passports as an "observation". Mine carries the special remark "The holder is Eur Ing Dr...".
I've never had to go through that to get a passport ever and have had one of my own since 14 and I'm 57. Gun lisc have to go through that not passports. Unless you're a security risk otherwise I just get RCMP to do a criminal background check when renew. Lol they thought you were a risk.
@@DaniHMcV never was a requirement. I've had a passport 43 years now. Only thing I ever needed was a criminal record check. Only those they consider a risk would need more. Seriously most people who have one dont even know any professionals that would sign. Lol seen many a spring break kids get passports within a week.
Great summary. As a Canadian engineer, I enjoyed the recap. Cheers!
Daven et Gilles this is ABSOLUTELY the BEST you have done !!
you may EQUAL it but never BETTER it
Stephen, what the fuck are saying?
Fun fact, the US has an engineering certification similar, simply called a PE. Similar to Canada, it’s self regulated by each state, although the degree certification is country wide.
The ring ceremony and the PE certification are totally independent. You don't need the ring to be certified PE, it's a purely ceremonial thing.
The tradition is here in the U.S. I went through the ceremony when I graduated from NC state
I never thought I would be watching a video with this title. But it's 2021 and Simon Whistler. I will watch anything
I received my engineering degree back in 1980, in the US. Although the US didn't regulate engineering as tightly as Canada, our class was invited to join "The Order of the Engineer". I did so, and received a stainless-steel ring (the traditional Canadian iron version had a tendency to rust...). I felt it was a good reminder of the moral obligations involved in the field.
Later, I also received a Professional Engineer license from the State of New York (currently on "inactive" status). About the only thing I ever did that actually required the license was to verify that the airflow into chemistry lab hoods was adequate.
So, as you can see from this and some of the other comments, the idea of regulating engineering is making progress in the US and other parts o the world.
Thanks for an interesting video that brought back some memories.
We do the same thing here in the states. As a graduate engineer, I was inducted into the "Order of the Engineer" at The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga in 1993. Our rings are stainless steel rather than the wrought iron the Canadians use. Our PE governance is virtually identical to theirs as well.
I don't think it's common, or if it is, it's a modern thing. My old man graduated from Montana State in the 80s and I don't think they did any ceremony with rings. At least, he's never mentioned it to me, nor have I seen a ring
Edit: he's a technologist. He lobbied the state to allow anybody who wants to take the engineering test to be able to take it, but he ended up failing the test by a few points.
I have one of those rings as well. It's interesting to hear that Canada has basically the same regulations around engineering licensure as we do in the states.
Inducted at Univ of KY '97. BS in Mech. E., but ended up going into emergency services instead of engineering.
@@jaegan438 what aspect of emergency service?
Mine and most other Canadian rings are stainless steel as well. I knew one older engineer that had an iron ring but he eventually had to have it replaced with a stainless one. The iron one had thinned to the point where it was about to break.
If only other professions had a similar "obligation". The one for lawyers would be interesting!
ps I'm in the UK
Depending on where you live, the requirements for a lawyer to remain in good standing with the local/state/national bar can be at least as strict on paper.
Getting those rules enforced is the main issue. Some lawyers are good at not getting attention from judges for their misconduct for a long time.
They actually do... Maybe they don't have a fancy ring, but Canada regulates many titles. For instance, in Québec we have the professional Code of Québec which regulates all 28 exclusive titles (including the one mentioned in the video). An exclusive profession means that they all have a specific field in which only they are allowed to practice in.
There are many swearing-in obligations for lawyers in Australia during their bar ceremony which is taken in front of a High Court judge. The most interesting obligation is that Australian lawyers are expected to be loyal to the Crown (in practice, this loyalty is to the Australian court system) and this obligation is greater than the obligation to act in their clients' best interests.
Whether lawyers actually honour such obligations is another matter entirely.
In Canada and the US Lawyers do have a similar professional organization governing legal right to practice in those professions. The problem comes down to the fact that the professions bodies are self-regulating so a Lawyers professional (or unprofessional) conduct are held to account by a bunch of other Lawyers... I'm sure you can see the flaw with that as an effective regulatory body.
Yahhh you mentioned Prince Edward Island in one of your videos!!! Best place to live but it actually cost me $50 to leave my province via a very big bridge that wasn’t built till the 90’s. Up until then only by boat. This place would make a great video . Lots of history here.
The need the same obligation for all the sciences too. Thank you for the video.
This is the same here in scandinavia. An engineeing dehree is tough to get and requires a certificate from an accredited university. Yes falsly using the title is illegal.
Well...no...at least not in Norway. "Ingeniør" is not a protected title."sivil ingeniør" (civil engineer) however is.
@@jarls5890 I meant civilengineer. Here in sweden we even di the ring thing (voluntarily and without the rituals if course).
"oh don't worry, these parts CAME defective in the PACKAGING"
how is that....
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...........
Being a structural / civil Engineer myself, originally from the province of Québec, the ceremony and the origins of the Iron ring is quite fascinating. I still got my oath where I can see it everyday and even if I must admit that I don't wear my ring all the time, when I do, it's with a great honor.
I've studied Engineering at Laval University in Québec city itself and the Québec bridge is a beauty of engineering for the time! It's story is a sad but quite interesting one. It's still is but it's current state could be made in a full other video, unfortunately...
It's been a while and I don't know if it's still the case but a myth was saying that even today, at low tide and with a lower flow in the St-Laurence River, you could still see some material remains from the 2 collapses on the river bed.
Thanks a lot Today I Found Out for this incredible summary of one of our weirdest but deepest tradition!
Great detail (we learned in P.Eng preactice class, and this is from my memory so may need some fact checking), the design firm was a firm from NYC, and the construction firm was Canadian. When the construction engineer noticed the bending and buckling, he reported it over and over again to the design engineer, which passed the buck back to construction stating they may be using substandard materials (they were not, it was a design flaw). On the morning of the accident, the construction engineer took a piece of chalk against two beams that were bending. He said that he had had enough and if the chalk mark was spreading more than 1" by the end of the work day, he was calling a stop order to the project (which would probably, at the time, had led to his immediate firing, especially since he had frequently communicated the flaws with the design firm). The accident happened that day.
Because of the american/canadian interaction it was apparent that a canadian standard of engineering was required, bearing responsibility on the construction engineer and allowing them to make the life/death decisions (and not in NYC).
Ah yeah, the one ring to to rule them all. It 's always fun to slam a table with it for the extra noise during a meeting to remind all non-engineers who's boss.
Simon, as a Canadian engineer, you got everything right! Well except for the cult thing, I assure you we are not a cult... wink, wink.
I've never drank so much beer in my life as I did during the 4 years of university. I've no idea how I made out alive, and with a working liver!
“We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the engineers, we can, we can, we can, we can, we can drink forty beers…"
"working liver?" Man, you're an engineer! You can build yourself a new one!
(Having it installed, though...That requires someone with an entirely different discipline...!)
@@vaalrus drink rum drink rum drink rum and come along with us...
……The North Atlantic Squadron!
@@willmfrank True! But I don't trust doctors messing around with any of my organs...
As a Brit, I never knew this and severely envy the Canadian engineers. I studied hard for 6 years to be an engineering apprentice and then gaining a 2:1 honours degree in mechanical engineering in the aircraft construction world. Now, plumbers are heating engineers, car mechanics are automotive engineers etc.etc. These are surely able people, but they did not spend years of hard work learning mathematics, fluid mechanics, metallurgy, materials science and many other disciplines. The UK protects the status of lawyers, doctors, accountants, vets, opticians and many more, but engineers are always portrayed as a man in a boiler suit carrying a spanner.
Mechanics fix engines but ENGINEERS design them in the first place! Probably a hangover from the industrial revolution when the work was done by engineers, but the power was held by the lawyers and bankers.
Respect to Canada. I should have moved there when I was younger.
At the engineering school I went to in the US (Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in Terre Haute, IN), they have an extremely similar ceremony called the Order of the Engineer, but it was optional and you had to sign up for it. Also, the rings they give are smooth instead of sharp.
*HERE IN BULGARIA* Eng. has the same status as Dr. and they are referred to as say "Engineer Karchev"
[EDIT] they are also required to study philosophy as part of their education, as their purpose is to serve mankind, therefore they must understand the problems of mankind.
A study of philosophy seems a reasonable requirement. Although I
do not recall the attribution I still adhere to it's wisdom. It go like this
"A problem not correctly defined can not be correctly solved."
That’s a great hybrid study, and intent on your university’s part.
@@cmck17 - I was just thinking after I posted. All the engineers I know are in their 30's or 40's or 50's - I wonder if they still do teach philosophy as part of engineering...??? I hope so.
As an engineer in the UK, one of the biggest things that annoys me is every Tom, Dick and Harry using the title "engineer". An email was sent out while I was uni asking us not to use a certain car park because the "engineers" were coming to paint the lines. The head of engineering reply all'd with a very strongly worded email.
Yes, I think this video kind of oversells Canadian engineering compared to other countries, but the U.K. is famous throughout the world for how poorly it regards its engineers.
This was great! Thank you. Proud Iron Ring wearer, University of Toronto 2002. High standards & professionalism only for Canadian Engineers. Kiplings obligation was powerful & effective to recite, a poignant memory. ERTW
Simon. Have you seen anything or presented a vid on the West Gate Bridge collapse in Melbourne Australia? Really like your channels.
"Gentian" is pronounced "jent-shen" not "gen-ti-an" - it's named after the gentian plant which have purple flowers (and which happens to commonly be used as a bittering agent in many alcoholic beverages).
he's british, he gets a pass. ;)
@@billyalarie929 No, it's pronounced that way in the UK too, I think this is just a case of Simon has never encountered the word before.
@@Zahaqiel oh, FINE. just rip my joke apart, then! -_-
@@billyalarie929 He's British, he should be _more_ serious about alcohol ingredients, not less!
@@Zahaqiel i mean, that's fair...
So ppl don't call themselves "software engineers" when they were previously known as computer programmers? I highly approve 👌
Software engineers do exist but they have to be using engineering principles and protect society. The example would be coding for a nuclear reactor control system. Yes, we have that in Canada and it scares US regulators to no end.
We call them IT engineers in Denmark. It’s a 6 year education at a polytechnic school that ends in a candidate degree or cand.polyt for short. I think the Americans call it a masters degree? After that you can work everywhere in the world or write a PhD.
Funny thing is that you can also get a sort of equivalent education at the regular universities but those are called cand.it and those guys usually doesn’t come from prior jobs or anything like that. I heard about a theologian bachelor swapping over to the it candidacy 🤔 Programming with Jesus?
I don’t know 🤷♂️ university credits is a weird thing in my country.
Computer or software engineers are the only unregulated engineers in canada as their titles were grandfathered in so anyone can call themselves one of these.
@@JohnDoe-gg6kc sounds like a gross oversight that needs fixing
@@JohnDoe-gg6kc enforcement varies by province, but in Ontario the PEO does mandate that "Software Engineers" are licensed
Alpha Epsilon Delta, the Pre-Med- professions Honor Society also carries on a private induction ceremony with the sponsor (the Dean of the Biology Dept. in my university) announcing the arrival of neophytes to a representative of AED and the representative answering in kind, a sort of password exchange. The door is opened and the neophytes are allowed in to sit at tables. Officers welcome neophytes and impress on them the seriousness of their future professions.
One such is the explanation of the coat of arms representing AED principles. Each of the officers states they stand under the station of each of the elements -the one I remember most being the skull on an open book. The enemy is death which is fought by knowledge and respect.
This ceremony is found by googling AED coat of arms. It is a prodigious and solemn one, no more cultish than solemnly swearing or affirming by the Oath of Hyppocrates or similar oath taken by some doctors to affirm their dedication to the seriousness and respect of the principles of their patients and profession. I have never been asked or demanded to perform any esoteric or clandestine activities regarding them since.
It was an amazing ceremony!
I thought this was going to be about the UBC Engineers legendary pranks (mostly involving volkswagon beetles in strange places) (personal fave: hacking the lights on the Lions Gate bridge to blink "UBC Engineers do it again" in morse code... only a ship going under the bridge recognized the morse code LOL)
the last picture from before the bonus facts is from the American order of the engineer where put our hand through a large version of our stainless steel ring and then say our version of the obligation. the American order was based on the Canadian one
Increase span by 12.5%? No reason to recalculate the design. It'll be fine.
🧐🧐🧐🤨🤨🤨😲😲😲!
Thanks, Simon! I knew about the Iron Ring, but not its history. And at my university, I always assumed that engineering students dying themselves purple was for our colours, like their annual Halloween prank of painting the observatory like a jack o'lantern!
As a Canadian who took engineering classes and had a chance to become one these traditions are new to me. If you took the mustache off Haultain, he would be a perfect match for my uncle. I wonder if he is a relative.
Engineers are just as important in society as doctors and soldiers and lawyers! It is probably the most underrated profession!
6.2k likes? I'm glad every single Canadian liked this video!
We shall meet at the tree in Edmonton
FYI, the chains inductees hold while taking the obligation are surveyor chains from the time when chains were still used as a standard unit of length in surveying.
As someone in the middle of reading Stormlight Archive - is this how you bond an engineering spren and become an Engineer Radiant?
Also: you said “do do”… ha
Engineers tell you how is supposed to work, Technicians make it work! lol Mad respect for most engineers though, and Canada has some of the best.
There is a similar licensing system the United States. Here NCEES manages testing and licensing for PEs, or Professional Engineers. Here, depending on the state, you can take an Fundamentals of Engineering exam in your Sr year of college. Upon successfully completing these knowledge exam in your given field of engineering you're given the title of EIT, Engineer in Training. Once completing 4 years of equivalent work in the field you can then take the PE exam where one would get their stamp and official title of Professional Engineer. Some states allow EITs to take the PE exam at anytime after completing the FE although others make you wait until after completing the 4 years. Here in the US we also have the Order of the Engineer which has a similar ceremony with Stainless Steel Rings that one would wear on the pinky of the dominant hand such that it drags on paper reminding you of your oath.
“What they do do…” 🤭 😂 I’m a child.
Graduating Engineering students in the US take part in a ceremony to receive a steel ring too.
I didn't get that when I graduate. Though all the honors students went off to some honors society ceremony while my friends and played ultimate Frisbee against a bunch of music majors.
Some places do, but I think only a small fraction of US engineering students do, versus a healthy majority of Canadians. This ceremony is copied in some way from the Canadian in some respects, but the obligation spoken is different.
I received a BS Aero Eng in 1986, and an MS Mech Eng in 1990. There were no celebrations, other than a normal graduation ceremony. I’ve never heard of a ritual like these for engineering students in the US.
The picture at 12:40 is from the bad US copy, not the Canadian version.
Interesting, I graduated from the University of Wyoming and have friends who graduated the University of Nevada (Reno) and the South Dakota School of Mines, we all have rings. I thought if it happened in those places that it would be a thing everywhere in the States. Now, I have to take a poll… because I thought that, like me, everyone thought it was pretentious and didn’t wear them on purpose.
Where's AvE ?
In my last year of high school my then-boyfriend and our other friend went away to university to get engineering degrees and told me about all of these rituals they did and I just rolled with it as a normal part of the university experience -- really didn't think about how weird it was til after watching this video
It looks like your shoulder is better. I hope it is and thanks for the fascinating video.
Pretty much all those requirements and consequences are also in place in the US for professional engineers. Still makes me a little nervous accepting responsibility for something Each time I seal it. None of our professional groups that I'm aware of have any rituals though. The engineering honor societies at my college didn't do anything weird either.
They're not all steel - Camp 1 still offers traditional iron bands. These have the added benefit of not only being sharp, but over time leaving a rust stain on your skin so you can never take the ring off :D
Camp one is the only camp that offers it, and you have to request it.
we we able to choose iron or stainless steel. i picked stainless and wore it 38 yrs but had to take it off 5 months ago for hand surgery. they managed to get it off in the ER. now i don't know what i did with it. damn.
@@ronblack7870 You can contact the camp where you took the calling and request a replacement for a modest fee.
Love these
This is very interesting
So my question is where does the Order of the Engineer come from? Is it based off this? Because in the U.S. we also get a ring, have a ceremony, say an oath, etc.
I think this is relatively new. When I graduated and got my ring in 1992 my US colleagues didn’t have a ring, and knew nothing about the ring or the Calling ritual. I guess the US has come up with something similar since then.
It is. We were told that our ceremony was borne out of the Canadian tragedy many smaller ones here in the US.
I got my ring in 1998. Canada's version seems much more meaningful.