Well there may be a good deal of corporations that own part of the service industry for example many of the HVAC tech companies are affiliated with carrier and Lennox systems and is primarily how those techs get their leads but of course the brand gets their cut.
Engineer here. Quite often we do think about serviceability. We are just told no by the business if it would incur any additional cost. Lots of engineers without forethought, but many times its a business decision by bean counters.
Someone realized the mistake after all the steel was stamped and option A was get someone to Re-drill mounting holes option B stamp new steel or option C ain’t my problem.
I have been teaching HVAC for 18 years and have said for quite a long time that engineers should be made to go out with service technicians for at least one year. 😀And you know that when they get back to the drawing board things will change for the better 😌
We have an A/C in the train system at the airport that hasn’t been serviced for years, the engineers never designed an access panel and everything is weld shut…. Just pure genius, un adulterated pure genius.
Cost brother. Serviceability increases size, increases component count, increases cost. The final product is a balance of all those factors. Making everything perfectly serviceable is expensive.
Reminds me of the time I had to swap the alternator on an excavator. It was a massive pain, but I crawled in there and got it done. Then, six months later we had a hydraulic leak and while looking for the access, we found out the entire cabin flipped up and the alternator was right there. Couldn't believe it.
It's not an engineer issue. Engineers would love to design something to be easily serviceable, but owners won't spend the extra money for the better design. When the world wants cheap, you get cheap.
No, this is a design mistake. All those components could've been assembled with the motor and pulleys facing the door, for the same price. I would just do it myself in like 2hours so it was serviceable for the rest of my life
@karlkarl7282 electric motors are either clockwise or counterclockwise. It's cheaper and less prone to error to order the same direction for all motors and install them as needed. So, when nobody wants to take the time or spend the money to purchase the correct motor, you end up installing the incorrect motor backwards to make the system work. So back to my point.. You can have 2 of these 3 things... Cheap, Fast, or Quality... Unfortunately, everyone chooses cheap and fast, and nobody chooses quality anymore.
This was assembled at the factory , Fan, motor and drive belt ,mounted on a foot plate , which was then slid in and mounted and secured , all electrical connection were then threaded through to the electrical panel , leaving enough cable this side to remove fan motor assembly on the foot plate . Remembering to unscrew fan flange first before removal.
That is the cleanest unit I have ever seen in my life. It doesn’t even look like it’s ever been turned on. If he had t walked around it and me see the rest of the roof….
Could have put that whole assembly on a sliding track that had locking pins in the correct position, added a small lockout switch, and saved many backs and shoulders.
Spencer, there is no need for the added complexity. Use the same shaft put in backward from how it is now (sheave on the near side) and either a reversible motor or a motor with the opposite rotation, mounted 180 degrees... This places the belt on the accessable side of the compartment and makes primary service and alignment much easier. The motor will be moved to the near side and be a little easier to change and the rest of the parts rarely require replacement and are time consuming jobs as is.
@@Bear-cm1vl But then you've got the wires next to the belt and some vibration might put them in contact and wear the wires. I'm guessing that the engineers probably at least considered that belts wear out.
Best engineer I ever worked with had a sign on his desk..."At some point in every project it becomes necessary to shoot all the engineers and get the f-cking work done."
Seems to be getting worse. Engineers only design and never have to service them. Had a couple engineers get tech jobs with me. They didn't last since they both said "I became an engineer so I can sit at a desk in the AC all day, not sweat my ass off fixing this crap!" I told them both "well if you get an engineering job then at least think about guys like me that have to fix this crap!"
I have to say, those actually look like well designed blower skids (for the light duty market). The housing can be clocked as needed, the blower shaft extends on both sides so the motor can be mounted on either side. There's built in means for tensioning, and the skid can be removed whole and disassembled outside the unit for service. The problem here is whoever configured the parts. If the blower skid is made in house, the departments aren't talking to each other. If it's provided by an external vendor, whoever is procuring them has just stuck with the base part number. The fact that this blower skid is in fact so modular and yet was installed this way is what's infuriating.
Every service techs nightmare with in the trade…. Installers and engineers. Sure as shit if the one doesn’t make it right the other won’t install it right then your left with hoping the customer uses it right.
Im an engineer, diffrent tyoe, not a componant design. But engineers bave a set peramiters they have to go by, and so they design to meet thise areas. Mechanics and servicemen, make up thr special tools needed to get a job done. Lol. But i know what you mean. When im working on a car and a ramdom part im working on is in the worst spot for no reason... But they keep the hours high for you to get paid more...lol That unit looks brand new!
The two 5/16th screws securing the blow motor sled to the blower housing has slots on them. I wonder if you can loosen those screws and slide the motor mount towards the blower and then swap the belt. Looks feasible
Where i work a trane rooftop lucky it direct drive haven't found a accessible door guess when it dies have lift the top. Or carrier adds Dehum to system rooftop crams those extra refrigerant lines with suction and liq.line rubb together and leak
Guaranteed this is business, engineers usually got into it by tinkering with things and taking things apart This equipment ain't cheap, guaranteed they had a specific human factors team that worked on this, and they know exactly what you're speaking about Business requirement dictated this be built like this
They should make that setup swing/slide out. The surprising thing is that unit looks too damn new for service. I mean we should be seeing dust, corrosion, stickers peeling long before any service should be due.
It Might actually be Worth it to Make that Electrical panel Easily Removable. It looks like its only screwed around the edges anyhow. Looks like thier is only a Few Wires Entering & Leaving that Sheet Metal. 1) Cut the Wires that cross the panel edge where the panel is & Screw a Terminal block down at the Edge. Use the terminal block for quick Termination of the Wires. Use spade connections for Speed on connections up to 30amps. Might Have to be Done anyhow in the Future im thinking By the Looks of it.
I wouldn't even assume an engineer designed that. Cheap corporation probably hiring some offshore tech bureau to make drawings. In my work in industry this kind of sxxt was called "built to Chinese drawing". You'll also find poor compliance to building code, NEC, etc requirements.
Engineer: oh man, go and blame a manufacturing business owner. They don't want to pay. HVAC: you gotta drow that sh*t correctly and stop dropping your responsibilities. You learned by years not for this type of rookie mistakes. Engineer: I have a certificate of engineering from UA-cam and Instagram. Also, I got licensed by the Google Maps. HVAC: 🗿🗿🗿
You could flip that around and put the pulleys up front you would just have to get a different blower wheel and flop your motor mounting hardware and extend the wires over for the motor and then change two wires on the three phase motor. At least it’s possible.
I would think you could flip the bottom 180° and since that motor is on a resilient Mount you can probably 180° it so belt faces towards you. On the other hand the top one looks like you're going to have to remove the blower wheel flip that around or just loosen the shaft and shift it over, but more work either way. Lol this is a good one.
The real problem is it’s 2023 and we still don’t have a belt that will last and not break. All this crap is made to break and fall apart as fast as possible. Nothing last as long as it use to at the same time they tell us it’s better and will last longer lol
Engineers don’t care, most definitely should be techs before being an engineer, they have no idea how much easy jobs become difficult because of the layout
Same with everything they do ,why everything has to be easy for them in paper and for us the technicians the hard and most of the make the impossible just the service, Maintain, or Repair the lack of sense device they design nowadays. I suffer this shit everyday
Customer probably needed a different configuration for a mistake made by the building engineer and the factory made it work on the building and changed the configuration to CYA to be completed and running before the deadline seen worse on units because of the location of equipment and accessibility
Don't loosen the bracket or anything. Just stretch the belt like a rubber band and slap it on. Ye ole screwdriver works wonders getting the belt on the big pulley. If it breaks in 1/2 the time it should've lasted, that's double the business!!!! You can argue with customers and engineers all you want but they aren't ever going to change. Everyone wants cheap. You need to do your work quick so you can get paid and onto the next call. Braces, swim lessons, football, and cheerleader competitions ain't cheap, my friend.
Actually, write up 4 hours of labor and spin the motor, reverse the direction, if not, quote a new motor that you can reverse then pull the sheeve off the blades install other side now you can access
Designers have never done a day's work in their life using anything they design so this will be an ongoing blight on the supposed 'intelligence' of modern man.
The electrical code requires the motor be mounted like it is so the electrical connection is accessible and that puts the belt in the back. You need to think about it.
Most of these complainers are very myopic and are clueless what it actually takes to design AND manufacture to a particular price point AND meet all the regulatory requirements. Granted, there are some really bad serviceability designs out there but I’ll guarantee you that the fingerprints on those design are business development. Not the engineers.
Nice thought but you're also the same people that take up the crawlspace and attic with your ducting (right down the middle) so nobody will ever be able to get around the space for future services
Engineers should have to have service experience before they can design a unit
Yep , 1 Year Min.
Good ones do
That’s what I always think about it. The manufacturer should let them do disassembly their own designs
ANYTHING BUT THAT!!! 😆😆😆
The fact they aren't building the prototype then making it run is the problem. Just nerds with paper
Engineer work for the corporations that are trying to end serviceability.
Just like cars today they don’t want us to be independent
Well there may be a good deal of corporations that own part of the service industry for example many of the HVAC tech companies are affiliated with carrier and Lennox systems and is primarily how those techs get their leads but of course the brand gets their cut.
I doubt it, like automotive industry, make them some back for service
Engineer here. Quite often we do think about serviceability. We are just told no by the business if it would incur any additional cost. Lots of engineers without forethought, but many times its a business decision by bean counters.
At what cost? Losing potential business once consumers find out about serviceless equipment?
@@Bluecheese661 Never said the business side makes sense. Frustrates me to no end.
You cant tell me that in this case. Simply flipping the Blower tray 180 degrees to have the belt on the other side. Same Parts. Same everything.
Someone realized the mistake after all the steel was stamped and option A was get someone to Re-drill mounting holes option B stamp new steel or option C ain’t my problem.
I see your point but, other units don’t have that problem. Are they immune to the bean counters for the business?
I have been teaching HVAC for 18 years and have said for quite a long time that engineers should be made to go out with service technicians for at least one year. 😀And you know that when they get back to the drawing board things will change for the better 😌
We have an A/C in the train system at the airport that hasn’t been serviced for years, the engineers never designed an access panel and everything is weld shut…. Just pure genius, un adulterated pure genius.
On a brand new unit too. Sometimes I wonder about these guys. They hide caps like they are illegal
This goes the same for Ford engineers where they make you remove the whole cab from the frame to do certain maintenance..
I think it must be a game called “screw the tech in the field” … the genius behind that one got double points and probably won the game on that one…
Your supposed to replace the whole unit. They don’t want us fixing or maintaining.
Hvac tech VS Corporations should be the title.
Cost brother. Serviceability increases size, increases component count, increases cost. The final product is a balance of all those factors. Making everything perfectly serviceable is expensive.
Ha just remove the base screws from the mount rails motor and blower can be be swiveled as 1 unit to gain access to the back.
Exactly. And he had plenty of room. Some people like to cry.
Companies ultimately don’t care. They make their shit to fail to sell parts. They don’t care about the inconvenience or service or customers.
Reminds me of the time I had to swap the alternator on an excavator. It was a massive pain, but I crawled in there and got it done. Then, six months later we had a hydraulic leak and while looking for the access, we found out the entire cabin flipped up and the alternator was right there. Couldn't believe it.
Love it when I go to a call and she is like well my husband is an “engineer”. I wanna say wtf he don’t fix it then
they worry about a lil curve 😅
I've worked in aviation for 6+ years and whole heartedly agree with this sentiment! lol
It's not an engineer issue. Engineers would love to design something to be easily serviceable, but owners won't spend the extra money for the better design. When the world wants cheap, you get cheap.
So if they paid more they would make it serviceable.
👀..😂😂
Yes exactly right and techs don’t understand this
No, this is a design mistake.
All those components could've been assembled with the motor and pulleys facing the door, for the same price.
I would just do it myself in like 2hours so it was serviceable for the rest of my life
@karlkarl7282 electric motors are either clockwise or counterclockwise. It's cheaper and less prone to error to order the same direction for all motors and install them as needed. So, when nobody wants to take the time or spend the money to purchase the correct motor, you end up installing the incorrect motor backwards to make the system work. So back to my point.. You can have 2 of these 3 things... Cheap, Fast, or Quality... Unfortunately, everyone chooses cheap and fast, and nobody chooses quality anymore.
I work in HVAC so plz don’t start that war 😂 They already ruined everything for auto mechanics😂😂
This was assembled at the factory , Fan, motor and drive belt ,mounted on a foot plate , which was then slid in and mounted and secured , all electrical connection were then threaded through to the electrical panel , leaving enough cable this side to remove fan motor assembly on the foot plate . Remembering to unscrew fan flange first before removal.
Finally🤦🏾♂️💯💯💯thank you sir
You'd think they would prioritize access to the most frequently serviced parts of the unit
And those companies will fail. People won’t want their shit and companies won’t want to sell it for them either.
That's the battle between texts and engineers.
Designed by guys that can’t hang a picture without help . I’ve been dealing with this bullshit for 30 yrs
Master electrician, here. They did think about it and the beancounters said 'no'.
Or you can do flip the motor round take the shiv off the one side Slide the shaft through the squirrel cage and put the shiv on the other side
That is the cleanest unit I have ever seen in my life. It doesn’t even look like it’s ever been turned on. If he had t walked around it and me see the rest of the roof….
Looks like there’s a fair amount of room to replace a belt. It’s definitely better than replacing spark plugs on some of the cars today!
do you know what happens when an engineer and a technician walk into the field together? the engineer doesn't come back
Same a problem with through the wall units men I have been trying to replace high limit switch 2 hours
Could have put that whole assembly on a sliding track that had locking pins in the correct position, added a small lockout switch, and saved many backs and shoulders.
Spencer, there is no need for the added complexity. Use the same shaft put in backward from how it is now (sheave on the near side) and either a reversible motor or a motor with the opposite rotation, mounted 180 degrees... This places the belt on the accessable side of the compartment and makes primary service and alignment much easier. The motor will be moved to the near side and be a little easier to change and the rest of the parts rarely require replacement and are time consuming jobs as is.
@@Bear-cm1vl But then you've got the wires next to the belt and some vibration might put them in contact and wear the wires.
I'm guessing that the engineers probably at least considered that belts wear out.
It looks good on my monitor.
~ Engineer ~
Best engineer I ever worked with had a sign on his desk..."At some point in every project it becomes necessary to shoot all the engineers and get the f-cking work done."
100% Brother
Sorta like the car industry and many others! We live in a throw away society
They teamed up with Bud light.
Some engineers have their heads up you know where . . .
Engineers do not have the last word how things are built. Often engineers are over ridden by the bean counters and sales.
Seems to be getting worse. Engineers only design and never have to service them. Had a couple engineers get tech jobs with me. They didn't last since they both said "I became an engineer so I can sit at a desk in the AC all day, not sweat my ass off fixing this crap!" I told them both "well if you get an engineering job then at least think about guys like me that have to fix this crap!"
it may have been engineered with motor pulley and belt facing the access door but the unit was assembled on Friday after lunch time..
Gotta love engineers.
I have to say, those actually look like well designed blower skids (for the light duty market). The housing can be clocked as needed, the blower shaft extends on both sides so the motor can be mounted on either side. There's built in means for tensioning, and the skid can be removed whole and disassembled outside the unit for service.
The problem here is whoever configured the parts. If the blower skid is made in house, the departments aren't talking to each other. If it's provided by an external vendor, whoever is procuring them has just stuck with the base part number.
The fact that this blower skid is in fact so modular and yet was installed this way is what's infuriating.
The electrical panel seems like the best option to be honest. It makes sure that electical service access is doubled with actual maintenance.
That WHOLE assembly slides forward brother- look what it’s sitting on- loosen the bolts on the bottom and it should all slide back and forth …
He would need to read the fukin manual to learn that................
Every service techs nightmare with in the trade…. Installers and engineers. Sure as shit if the one doesn’t make it right the other won’t install it right then your left with hoping the customer uses it right.
This is why I like rheem
The motors are installed the wrong way lol
Good video! You’ve got to be Freaking kidding me ! Some hvac tech. MUST have pissed off that Engineer at lunch that day !
You sound like me 😂minus a few unforbidden words🤦🏿♂️
The guy building it never thinks of the people who have to fix it down the road...
That's the New normal Brother! I hear you. After covid it's like people are not interested in doing their anything.
Run into that all the time
I hear ya brother 😢😮.
Engineers equal education ,, but minus common sense !!! 👍🏽🧐
Right!!!! Been there they dont deal whith this situations comeon.
corporations: JUST BUY. ANOTHER. GODDAMN UNIT!
Im an engineer, diffrent tyoe, not a componant design. But engineers bave a set peramiters they have to go by, and so they design to meet thise areas. Mechanics and servicemen, make up thr special tools needed to get a job done. Lol. But i know what you mean. When im working on a car and a ramdom part im working on is in the worst spot for no reason... But they keep the hours high for you to get paid more...lol
That unit looks brand new!
Turning that motor round and moving the drive on the fan looks doable.
U have to unbolt the motor/fan assy, slide it out to service the belt.
Plot twist. It was the first day on the assembly line.
The two 5/16th screws securing the blow motor sled to the blower housing has slots on them. I wonder if you can loosen those screws and slide the motor mount towards the blower and then swap the belt. Looks feasible
I've come across this many times in my 40 career. Design Engineers have no clue about service.
Can’t call them engineers, that’s why it was built that way.
The computer said it would work lol
Where i work a trane rooftop lucky it direct drive haven't found a accessible door guess when it dies have lift the top. Or carrier adds Dehum to system rooftop crams those extra refrigerant lines with suction and liq.line rubb together and leak
Guaranteed this is business, engineers usually got into it by tinkering with things and taking things apart
This equipment ain't cheap, guaranteed they had a specific human factors team that worked on this, and they know exactly what you're speaking about
Business requirement dictated this be built like this
They should make that setup swing/slide out. The surprising thing is that unit looks too damn new for service. I mean we should be seeing dust, corrosion, stickers peeling long before any service should be due.
They need to design them with a box of tissues for service guys to wipe their tears
Somehow, my 1979 datsun 620 has it's original factory belts. They don't make good stuff anymore.
I guess Engineers thought of Hvac tech hurting themselves with the running blower belt while servicing the unit for a broken blower belt.
Nice !👍
That’s definitely the reason. You have to protect even experienced people from possible injuries. It’s pretty obvious here.
They laugh when they design stuff."maintenance will fix it."
It Might actually be Worth it to Make that Electrical panel Easily Removable. It looks like its only screwed around the edges anyhow. Looks like thier is only a Few Wires Entering & Leaving that Sheet Metal.
1) Cut the Wires that cross the panel edge where the panel is & Screw a Terminal block down at the Edge. Use the terminal block for quick Termination of the Wires. Use spade connections for Speed on connections up to 30amps.
Might Have to be Done anyhow in the Future im thinking By the Looks of it.
I wouldn't even assume an engineer designed that. Cheap corporation probably hiring some offshore tech bureau to make drawings. In my work in industry this kind of sxxt was called "built to Chinese drawing". You'll also find poor compliance to building code, NEC, etc requirements.
It's always easier when you're not n the field.
Piece of cake. Come to NYC and see where the stuff the units at then you will complain 😢
Engineer: oh man, go and blame a manufacturing business owner. They don't want to pay.
HVAC: you gotta drow that sh*t correctly and stop dropping your responsibilities. You learned by years not for this type of rookie mistakes.
Engineer: I have a certificate of engineering from UA-cam and Instagram. Also, I got licensed by the Google Maps.
HVAC: 🗿🗿🗿
If it was made in Germany that would have never happened
Shit on automobiles put the oil filter up top
Oh they thought about it, they just didnt care.
You could flip that around and put the pulleys up front you would just have to get a different blower wheel and flop your motor mounting hardware and extend the wires over for the motor and then change two wires on the three phase motor. At least it’s possible.
This happened when the installer don’t have a clue of servicing an equipment🎉😂😂😂
Hvac Techs = 1
Engineers = 0
this is a great video for real im a tech of different things and this engineering get to much money get us crazy
I would think you could flip the bottom 180° and since that motor is on a resilient Mount you can probably 180° it so belt faces towards you.
On the other hand the top one looks like you're going to have to remove the blower wheel flip that around or just loosen the shaft and shift it over, but more work either way.
Lol this is a good one.
On second time through, going to have to dismantle and reinstall both blowers so that belt is actually accessible.
The real problem is it’s 2023 and we still don’t have a belt that will last and not break. All this crap is made to break and fall apart as fast as possible. Nothing last as long as it use to at the same time they tell us it’s better and will last longer lol
Looks good from my desk
But it looked so cool in though. Why techs hate engineers
Engineers don’t care, most definitely should be techs before being an engineer, they have no idea how much easy jobs become difficult because of the layout
Looked good on paper.😂😂
Same with everything they do ,why everything has to be easy for them in paper and for us the technicians the hard and most of the make the impossible just the service, Maintain, or Repair the lack of sense device they design nowadays. I suffer this shit everyday
Customer probably needed a different configuration for a mistake made by the building engineer and the factory made it work on the building and changed the configuration to CYA to be completed and running before the deadline seen worse on units because of the location of equipment and accessibility
Can you not remove the top panel, somehow? I sympathize, though.
I just crawled inside. Just seems easy enough to flip the motors around for easier access.
Don't loosen the bracket or anything. Just stretch the belt like a rubber band and slap it on. Ye ole screwdriver works wonders getting the belt on the big pulley. If it breaks in 1/2 the time it should've lasted, that's double the business!!!!
You can argue with customers and engineers all you want but they aren't ever going to change. Everyone wants cheap. You need to do your work quick so you can get paid and onto the next call. Braces, swim lessons, football, and cheerleader competitions ain't cheap, my friend.
Actually, write up 4 hours of labor and spin the motor, reverse the direction, if not, quote a new motor that you can reverse then pull the sheeve off the blades install other side now you can access
Designers have never done a day's work in their life using anything they design so this will be an ongoing blight on the supposed 'intelligence' of modern man.
The real issue is having to change belt on a seemingly new unit 🤔
🤔 wondering if the belt had a longer service life than the motor.
Engineering to make sure units dont get serviced and customer buys new one
The electrical code requires the motor be mounted like it is so the electrical connection is accessible and that puts the belt in the back. You need to think about it.
It takes an engineer.
Most of these complainers are very myopic and are clueless what it actually takes to design AND manufacture to a particular price point AND meet all the regulatory requirements.
Granted, there are some really bad serviceability designs out there but I’ll guarantee you that the fingerprints on those design are business development. Not the engineers.
Nice thought but you're also the same people that take up the crawlspace and attic with your ducting (right down the middle) so nobody will ever be able to get around the space for future services
That’s installers not Techs. When we install something we keep in mind that accessibility is necessary because we’re the ones that have to go back. 😂
Engineering at its best for you..
LMAO wait until he pops the hood on his car
It should be insttaled otherway for easier access for chaging belt