The background image you posted is perfect, because it’s the very sentence that highlights Mew’s unpredictability and what the player is thinking when facing one: “What will Mew do?”
Before the video even begins, I already am thinking of just how gnarly even 2 of its potential sets are. Taunt Wisp Soft +1 is already much stronger here than it ever was in BW but it’s also has its old ADV Ubers party trick of 1 turn 596/656 Attack Explosion with potential 328 Speed on SD sets. SD Explosion Sucker is admittedly reliant on volatile mindgames, but say you want to blow Skarmory in particular out of the picture: all you would have to do is throw earthquake in the last slot as well as put a Life Orb on it and all of a sudden nothing but skarm, fat gyarados, and rest rotom want a piece of it but Skarm is also going to be targeted by explosion anyways. Sync causing burn attempts from ghosts to also burn said ghost make wisp gengar attempts at checking more costly than its player wants. This is just a couple of its already extraordinarily strong sets and it can make a few more very strong things happen with that movepool. Don’t release this thing for any reason other than novelty. Alright, I’ll watch the vid now.
Found you for your ADV content, and staying for the all genres. Thanks for being fearlessly diverse, and just making what YOU are passionate about. Your passion for Pokémon is what I watch you for
Imagine if mew had its gen 8 movepool lol. DD close combat flare blitz spikes and tspikes One interesting set I don’t think you mentioned would be banded mew with boom and u-turn, kinda like azelf
Was thinking same thing. Wish drainpunch was 75bp in gen 4 so you could recover sand, orb and entry damage guarding you from lucario and Dnite e speed cleaning you, imagine: Mew @ lIfe Orb Jolly 252 atk, 252 spe -Zen Headbutt -Drain Punch/ Ground/Fire/Fighting -Sucker Punch -Swords Dance
Glad your back into the video groove! I am hopeful for a manaphy video. I would love to try out some knock of defensive sers with u-turn but tail glow 3 attacks sets may be a little too good
To be honest, I don't play pokemon competitively too often, so my team building skills are rather subpar. But once you mentioned Mew getting Block as well as Skill Swap, the idea of a Block/Skill Swap/Soft-Boiled/Filler Move set on toxic spikes teams used to trap Clefable and take its Magic Guard away from it immediately popped into my head. Granted, my team building and battle skills are subpar, so I don't know exactly how well this would work in practice, but the idea alone is tempting.
1:20 i nominally agree with this, with one big very “unrelated to this video” exception. It is kind of ludicrous how due to general disrepair especially from the outdated NFE ban that Gen 2 and ESPECIALLY Gen 3 have as MASSIVE BL lists as they do. Their entire tiering systems below OU need revamping imo.
I would be interested to see what a meta with Mew would look like, but honestly, Gen 4 OU is one of the healthiest OU metas right now in my opinion, so I can't imagine introducing Mew would push it in a good direction. The only thing I really feel negatively about in the meta right now is the strength of Spore Brelooom, which I feel sometimes gets its win condition a little too easily, but then again I do unashamedly run Spore Breloom on my main laddering team and I love it
Initial guess is it's way to good as a defensive mon with instant recovery and Wisp alone + coverage for whatever thinks it can switch in on Wisp (Earth Power for tran) it can also of course have dozens of sets which makes it jirachi all over again in regards to guessing the set. Offensive Mew is also no joke. Coverage + boosting and 100 speed
To preface, first let me say from a competitive player perspective, allowing Mew in DPP is a bad idea. There’s no way to predict or consistently play around it, so it takes skill away from the game. To play Devil’s advocate though, a good meta for some players does not mean the same thing as a good meta for competitive players. Personally, my favorite part of playing on Showdown is thinking of unorthodox sets/teams and seeing how far I can get with them. From this perspective, having Mew allowed would be very interesting and fun for me. Suddenly any fringe set or strat or teammate combination that I can think of suddenly has the perfect partner. I could fill any gap my suboptimal team has and find a way to surprise its counters. The best players would hate it, since there is no way to possible predict whatever crazy set I come up with, but I would thrive in that setup. I understand I am the minority and the meta should be setup for competitive players who dedicate the most time and are most passionate about the game. But there is another perspective.
Don’t mean to sound like a dick, why aren’t there ladder drops of Ubers not ladder suspect tests just drops to see how stuff reacts and mainly in newer gens I understand older ones. it seems like a safe and quicker way to get discussions done then ages of theorising.
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 They don't have enough players usually. Maybe for a week or so, but after that intrest drops and you don't get much value out of it
Afaik most serious old gen players are primarily tournament players so they usually do tournaments where x is banned or allowed rather than suspect testing for the reason that Lennert mentioned
Block could be stupid good with taunt roost and really any 4rth move for blissey clef or any passive mon. All that can be said is thank god it doest get imprison this gen
i’m honestly surprised mew isn’t OU. i’d always imagine that any special sets would be outclassed by latias both offensively and defensively (has recover, similar boltbeamblast coverage, etc.) meanwhile physical sets would face stiff competition from jirachi or metagross.
I think Baton Pass being gone really does change the equation around it. Rock Polish + SD/CM/BU would have been way busted. That said, I think wall breaker would still be busted because the only 2 fire types get worn down by hazards pretty bad and Heatran/Nape do not have the power of Gen 5 fire types.
Hi Kevin, I don't know if you made one already, but I'd like too see your take on Latias in ADV OU. Also, good vid as always man :) _(do more ladder vids-_
Jirachi has a worse move pool, no Nasty plot, no SD, no explosion, and no priority moves (sucker punch). Jirachi is better defensively, has the SR resistance, and that annoying as shit ability, but mew is great no matter what role you want it to take. It would be gross.
I left a comment on the Salamence video, but I'll reiterate the first part. I am very new to competitive Pokemon. That being said I'm wondering if there has ever been any discussion about banning Snorlax in RBY and GSC. I'm not saying I want them banned, just wondering if it's ever been discussed. Tbh I'm just a debate need that wants to look at both sides of the argument.
@@tecul1 that makes sense. RBY is crazy so you know what you're going into when you play that. But I can imagine some good arguments for either side in GSC. The major problem I see is if you tried to ban Lax, it would gimp so many strategies that it would redefine the entire meta.
Only thing I can recall was some talk on PokePerf for a bit about the possibility of suspecting Reflectlax+Chansey in RBY once they began their rise, but that petered out. And with stuff like Porygon or Amesialax being discovered to be hard counters to Reflectlax that discussion stopped for good.
Just going off your first stance of "not using the tools you have and just releasing a broken pokemon to spice things up isn't very competitive". This is exactly the opposite of how you should think. You should assess the tools you have and then determine if the thing that is banned truly deserves to be banned or not. For example, Latias in DPP OU we've all pretty much determined is good for the meta game because it has a lot of answers and things that keep it in check that weren't used back when it was originally banned. A lot of things get banned in competitive pokemon usually due to people just being bad and not working around them. For example if there was a pokemon like GSC snorlax in gen 5 OU it would be banned almost immediately regardless of game health.
I think you're setting up a strawman here. I think he's saying that since it is commonly agreed that Mew is very visibly broken (though it should just get tested to see once and for all), and that most of the arguments for bringing it back mainly boil down to "let's shake the meta up"... that isn't a very good case for Mew. Obviously in Latias' case, it ended up NOT being broken, but if a meta can't adapt to a pokemon the best thing to do is have it banned because bans shouldn't be based on theorycraft. Like... let's take the current suspect of Latios going on in BDSP since it's at least a cousin tier even if its actual meta is different (but as a little case study). When it first got suspected, it was already pretty overbearing and restrictive but there was actually MORE good counterplay to it at the time since it took a bit for specs Latios to not just be its only good set and a lot of the mons that are mediocre outside of checking Latios hadn't fully fallen off. There were a lot of proposed ways to check it that never actually came to fruition and it's counterplay is even MORE limited now. Some couuuld argue that it should've been banned a couple months ago in its first test but the case for banning it is at least a LOT stronger nowadays
The background image you posted is perfect, because it’s the very sentence that highlights Mew’s unpredictability and what the player is thinking when facing one: “What will Mew do?”
Didnt even think about this, great comment!
I swear I’ve seen something similar to this on mtgxerxes channel
Before the video even begins, I already am thinking of just how gnarly even 2 of its potential sets are. Taunt Wisp Soft +1 is already much stronger here than it ever was in BW but it’s also has its old ADV Ubers party trick of 1 turn 596/656 Attack Explosion with potential 328 Speed on SD sets. SD Explosion Sucker is admittedly reliant on volatile mindgames, but say you want to blow Skarmory in particular out of the picture: all you would have to do is throw earthquake in the last slot as well as put a Life Orb on it and all of a sudden nothing but skarm, fat gyarados, and rest rotom want a piece of it but Skarm is also going to be targeted by explosion anyways. Sync causing burn attempts from ghosts to also burn said ghost make wisp gengar attempts at checking more costly than its player wants. This is just a couple of its already extraordinarily strong sets and it can make a few more very strong things happen with that movepool. Don’t release this thing for any reason other than novelty. Alright, I’ll watch the vid now.
Imagine scarf mew just coming in and steals one of Ur mons with transform as soon as you thought you finally delt with it
Does that work? Or does scarf lock you into transform and you can't do anything
@ bruh...
Just watched the salamence video and heard you talking about if mew or manaphy would be too much in ou then the vid drops. Good timing BKC
I feel manaphy would be too much, too specialized and too much on rain. Plus Psychic super common and mew would stack weaknesses
instead of calling OU in mew, mewbers, it should be called O-Mew
Oµ
I love videos like this, even if the answer is always obviously yes it's still fun to hear why they'd be broken, some history etc.
Found you for your ADV content, and staying for the all genres. Thanks for being fearlessly diverse, and just making what YOU are passionate about. Your passion for Pokémon is what I watch you for
Damn look at this BKC activity!!! Love to see you back in action Kevin
I’d actually be interested in hearing more on RBY Mewbers. Sounds like fun although I’m not sure how balanced it would actually be.
Imagine if mew had its gen 8 movepool lol. DD close combat flare blitz spikes and tspikes
One interesting set I don’t think you mentioned would be banded mew with boom and u-turn, kinda like azelf
2 vids back to back? Man what a pleasant surprise
Use camerupt on the ADV ladder
Ok now I want to hear the Manaphy video. Great work as always
That thumbnail is rad
Well, mission failed, sounds like a very fun mon. DPP Mewbers tournament when?
SD mew in OU would probably run sucker punch just to get the jump on other offencive mew
Was thinking same thing. Wish drainpunch was 75bp in gen 4 so you could recover sand, orb and entry damage guarding you from lucario and Dnite e speed cleaning you, imagine:
Mew @ lIfe Orb
Jolly 252 atk, 252 spe
-Zen Headbutt
-Drain Punch/ Ground/Fire/Fighting
-Sucker Punch
-Swords Dance
i'm loving the new vids, keep up the good work
Glad your back into the video groove! I am hopeful for a manaphy video. I would love to try out some knock of defensive sers with u-turn but tail glow 3 attacks sets may be a little too good
I didn't even realize this vid was a *mew* one until now
broooo...
To be honest, I don't play pokemon competitively too often, so my team building skills are rather subpar.
But once you mentioned Mew getting Block as well as Skill Swap, the idea of a Block/Skill Swap/Soft-Boiled/Filler Move set on toxic spikes teams used to trap Clefable and take its Magic Guard away from it immediately popped into my head.
Granted, my team building and battle skills are subpar, so I don't know exactly how well this would work in practice, but the idea alone is tempting.
check out freezeai video on mew
Why is called Mewbers and not O-Mew :|
Oµ
1:20 i nominally agree with this, with one big very “unrelated to this video” exception. It is kind of ludicrous how due to general disrepair especially from the outdated NFE ban that Gen 2 and ESPECIALLY Gen 3 have as MASSIVE BL lists as they do. Their entire tiering systems below OU need revamping imo.
I'm not sure if Gen 2 has the same NFE rule, since Light Ball Pikachu seems to have a niche in GSC UU and Nintendo Cup 2k.
I would be interested to see what a meta with Mew would look like, but honestly, Gen 4 OU is one of the healthiest OU metas right now in my opinion, so I can't imagine introducing Mew would push it in a good direction. The only thing I really feel negatively about in the meta right now is the strength of Spore Brelooom, which I feel sometimes gets its win condition a little too easily, but then again I do unashamedly run Spore Breloom on my main laddering team and I love it
Initial guess is it's way to good as a defensive mon with instant recovery and Wisp alone + coverage for whatever thinks it can switch in on Wisp (Earth Power for tran) it can also of course have dozens of sets which makes it jirachi all over again in regards to guessing the set. Offensive Mew is also no joke. Coverage + boosting and 100 speed
To preface, first let me say from a competitive player perspective, allowing Mew in DPP is a bad idea. There’s no way to predict or consistently play around it, so it takes skill away from the game.
To play Devil’s advocate though, a good meta for some players does not mean the same thing as a good meta for competitive players.
Personally, my favorite part of playing on Showdown is thinking of unorthodox sets/teams and seeing how far I can get with them.
From this perspective, having Mew allowed would be very interesting and fun for me. Suddenly any fringe set or strat or teammate combination that I can think of suddenly has the perfect partner. I could fill any gap my suboptimal team has and find a way to surprise its counters. The best players would hate it, since there is no way to possible predict whatever crazy set I come up with, but I would thrive in that setup.
I understand I am the minority and the meta should be setup for competitive players who dedicate the most time and are most passionate about the game. But there is another perspective.
looking forward to the gen 5 OU vid
33:30 nothing positive but cuteness that is!
Who is this and what have you done to busy-ass kevin?
iKR
Don’t mean to sound like a dick, why aren’t there ladder drops of Ubers not ladder suspect tests just drops to see how stuff reacts and mainly in newer gens I understand older ones. it seems like a safe and quicker way to get discussions done then ages of theorising.
i’ve always wanted a constant suspect ladder where it rotates through certain clauses or trial of uber mons in OU
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 They don't have enough players usually. Maybe for a week or so, but after that intrest drops and you don't get much value out of it
Afaik most serious old gen players are primarily tournament players so they usually do tournaments where x is banned or allowed rather than suspect testing for the reason that Lennert mentioned
Did anybody else think that heracross looked pink
just started watching and I don't know much about gen4 but I'm going to guess no it doesn't look op
Block, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Explosion. Who even needs Magnezone.
???? two videos!
Maybe talk about how Celebi would make GSC miserable
Seeding and Healing Bells *everywhere* .
Also Perish Song if it feels like being a dick.
Block could be stupid good with taunt roost and really any 4rth move for blissey clef or any passive mon. All that can be said is thank god it doest get imprison this gen
i’m honestly surprised mew isn’t OU. i’d always imagine that any special sets would be outclassed by latias both offensively and defensively (has recover, similar boltbeamblast coverage, etc.) meanwhile physical sets would face stiff competition from jirachi or metagross.
New is just Latias -dragon type +WAY more cheese potential
Thanks BKC.
I think Baton Pass being gone really does change the equation around it. Rock Polish + SD/CM/BU would have been way busted.
That said, I think wall breaker would still be busted because the only 2 fire types get worn down by hazards pretty bad and Heatran/Nape do not have the power of Gen 5 fire types.
Thank you :)
Hi Kevin, I don't know if you made one already, but I'd like too see your take on Latias in ADV OU. Also, good vid as always man :) _(do more ladder vids-_
Latias. ADV.
In my mind ruining the metagame means
"You have to run this pokemon/set and or have a counter to it or you lose."
Thats just not true.
Every team needs an answer to DD Gyarados but it isnt ruining the metagame.
Block Hypnosis Dream Easter Taunt :)
bro?
the background image is crusty
I'd be surprised if Jirachi wouldn't still be stronger than Mew in dpp ou
Jirachi has a worse move pool, no Nasty plot, no SD, no explosion, and no priority moves (sucker punch).
Jirachi is better defensively, has the SR resistance, and that annoying as shit ability, but mew is great no matter what role you want it to take. It would be gross.
I left a comment on the Salamence video, but I'll reiterate the first part. I am very new to competitive Pokemon. That being said I'm wondering if there has ever been any discussion about banning Snorlax in RBY and GSC. I'm not saying I want them banned, just wondering if it's ever been discussed. Tbh I'm just a debate need that wants to look at both sides of the argument.
snorlax in gsc, plenty of times, but none serious
in rby, not that i know of, but probably still
@@tecul1 that makes sense. RBY is crazy so you know what you're going into when you play that. But I can imagine some good arguments for either side in GSC. The major problem I see is if you tried to ban Lax, it would gimp so many strategies that it would redefine the entire meta.
Only thing I can recall was some talk on PokePerf for a bit about the possibility of suspecting Reflectlax+Chansey in RBY once they began their rise, but that petered out.
And with stuff like Porygon or Amesialax being discovered to be hard counters to Reflectlax that discussion stopped for good.
In my opinion, anything that is not broken should be unbanned, and anything that is broken should be banned, regardless of the effect in the metagame
Just going off your first stance of "not using the tools you have and just releasing a broken pokemon to spice things up isn't very competitive". This is exactly the opposite of how you should think. You should assess the tools you have and then determine if the thing that is banned truly deserves to be banned or not. For example, Latias in DPP OU we've all pretty much determined is good for the meta game because it has a lot of answers and things that keep it in check that weren't used back when it was originally banned. A lot of things get banned in competitive pokemon usually due to people just being bad and not working around them. For example if there was a pokemon like GSC snorlax in gen 5 OU it would be banned almost immediately regardless of game health.
For clarification, this isn't an attack, just an assessment of the statement and mentality.
I think you're setting up a strawman here. I think he's saying that since it is commonly agreed that Mew is very visibly broken (though it should just get tested to see once and for all), and that most of the arguments for bringing it back mainly boil down to "let's shake the meta up"... that isn't a very good case for Mew. Obviously in Latias' case, it ended up NOT being broken, but if a meta can't adapt to a pokemon the best thing to do is have it banned because bans shouldn't be based on theorycraft. Like... let's take the current suspect of Latios going on in BDSP since it's at least a cousin tier even if its actual meta is different (but as a little case study). When it first got suspected, it was already pretty overbearing and restrictive but there was actually MORE good counterplay to it at the time since it took a bit for specs Latios to not just be its only good set and a lot of the mons that are mediocre outside of checking Latios hadn't fully fallen off. There were a lot of proposed ways to check it that never actually came to fruition and it's counterplay is even MORE limited now. Some couuuld argue that it should've been banned a couple months ago in its first test but the case for banning it is at least a LOT stronger nowadays