Changeling: "How long before the cloning facilities are operational"? Weyoun: "Not for several days..." *_Weyoun remembering how he's gonna die as soon as the cloning facility is operational_* Weyoun: "....perhaps weeks..."
One thing that I love is that Weyoun has, at least in theory, been around a while and was only on his fourth clone when he met Sisko. In the relatively short amount of time after that, he burned through clones 5-8 really fast. Turns out that messing with the alpha quadrant is bad for your health.
"Good news, founder. The cloning facilities are back online. Unfortunately, it pains me to report, that the Weyoun template was lost in the last Federation attack. Vorta scientists are working to rebuild the template," "Keep me informed"
The Changelings deeply hindered themselves by allowing a servitor race that unabashedly worshipped them to be their primary strategic counsel and advisors. The Founder completely lost sight of the fact that not everyone is just another Vorta for her to abuse while they smile and ask for more. So incapable of respecting other species, she lost her ability to manipulate them, because they all saw through her to the utter spite and cruelty beneath the surface.
I dont know, she did treat the Breen with respect, at least on the surface. But i agree, the Vorta arent great advisors since they are basically genetically programmed to always try to please the founders, which also means, never relay any bad news, if you can help it. So at the end of the day, if a founder wants to have reliable information it needs to check all sources itself.
@@Daniel-rd6st She treated the Breen with respect but remember in the beginning she also treated the Cardassians with respect. I've no doubt that the Breen would eventually have been in the same situation as the Cardassians. Once their usefulness was over they'd be rolled into the Dominon or eliminated.
@@Daniel-rd6st i wonder whether the breen she talked to might have also been a changeling. there was a breen in the jem'hadar prison camp, and having changelings at the top level of breen government would explain why they were willing to join the war
@MenachemSchmuel, that’s how the Founders work, but Breen culture is so mysterious to outsiders that it seems like it would be very hard to accomplish that way
Kinda feel bad for Weyoun here: He's trying his best, but the entire situation has spiraled so far out of his control that there's very little he can actually do to fix things. Most of what has gone wrong wasn't his fault, but happened on his watch, and as everyone knows, if it's not your fault but it happened on your watch, then it's your fault as far as your boss is concerned.
It was Weyoun’s fault. He mistreated the Cardassians until they turned against him. His job was to be a diplomat, and he failed spectacularly. ua-cam.com/video/VLA7HcI97Ao/v-deo.html
@@alanhayes961 That's funny. I mean the Founder is quite literally delegating responsibility here as he's been tasked with leading a war where loss is inevitable, a skillset he was literally not bred for.
Weyoun is right in that the Cardi's respect the rule of law, but only Cardassian law. Weyoun was wrong to believe that Damar would oppose the Dominion.
Jeff Combs is an excellent ST actor as he's really good at developing character's fully. Weyoun seemed to be a sneaky, cowering manipulative slime ball and as Captain Shran he was tougher than a Klingon and a respectable leader. That's talent.
The Founders are dying and Odo is the only Founder who is healthy. He will rule the Dominion after all of the other Changelings are dead, so Weyoun decided that it made sense to give Odo his complete loyalty by defecting. That Weyoun wasn't defective.
@@Jimmy-fg6hmbut that Weyoun also believed that the war against the powers of the Alpha Quadrant was wrong. He believed it was time for the Founders to live in peace with other alien species. And the Dominion military should only be used in defense of the Dominion. Not to be used for conquest. So in those way. That Weyoun was defective.
Am I the only one who thought it was hilarious that the Breen could screech incoherently and the Founders and Vorta would know exactly what they said and just continue with the conversation?
Maybe they understood their language...? That certain pitches and tones perhaps meant certain words or phrases of that screech...? You got to think bigger than that man. :) I always liked scenes such as this... It always made the atmosphere more alien, and the fact that neither species would judge each other in this demeaning kind of way (like your typical earth idiot from THIS day and age would) while they would both communicate in different ways made it a lot more realistic and interesting, imo anyways. :)
They did this trick in other franchises. There was Star Wars, where R2D2 would bloop and squank, and the other characters understood. (I suspect that R2D2 did a lot of cussing.) And there was George of the Jungle, in which the Tookie-Tookie Bird always said only one thing: "Awk! Awk! Eeek! Eeek! Tookie-tookie!"; yet George of the Jungle always understood immediately; in fact people would send messages to George via the Tookie-Tookie Bird. Between the Breen, R2D2, and the Tookie-Tookie Bird, I vote the Tookie-Tookie Bird.
Their universal translators were working, but the audience is supposed to still be kept in the dark... the Breen are supposed to be one of the most mysterious races in all of Trek
I know the vorta are made to obey the founders on a genetic level but i like to think the clone factory could have been repaired much faster, weyoun just didnt want to get replaced so quickly
Its amazing how little Weyoun and the Founder understand Cardassians. Weyoun has the surface level understanding that Cardassians respect authority, but they are both missing the fact that Cardassians are a proud people convinced of their own superiority. What Damar did was totally predictable, and the Founder’s plan to oppress the Cardassians more was obviously going to lead to further rebellion. Putting Cardassians at more installations also had the obvious flaw of giving Damar potential allies at every installation.
Also: They don't see the authority in some alliance with the dominion, but with the Cardassian High Command. And the leader of the High Command just said no to the Dominion. The Dominion forgot, that the Cardassians are overtly racists and would rather follow a leader of their own race doing something crazy than following the Dominion aliens.
It really seems to me that Cardassians have a complex understanding of authority. They spend a lot of time thinking about who is in charge, which lends them to subterfuge and interwoven chains of command. The idea that a segregated slavery would be appropriate shows minimal appreciation for them.
Hmm. I think I may have a different view. The problem wasn't necessarily a rebellion per se. These can happen from time to time, and they probably had lots of experience dealing with them. The problem is that it happened at a very bad time. Basically they were in a war, their enemies noted the rebellion and took advantage of the situation, the founders tried to shut down the rebellion, and alienated they pushed their Cardassian Space Force (Navy, or whatever you call it) against them in a middle of the decisive battle of a war. What they should have done is wait until the battle was over before dealing with the rebellion and worked out a plan with the loyal Caradassians (including the ones that were done fighting the alpha quadrant battle) but that might have been difficult to pull off.
You can't help but either wonder, OR know deep down inside that Weyoun bold-faced lied to The Founder about when that cloning facility would be operational.
Combs is a terrific character actor, the many times the ST franchise used him over and over again as alien characters was amazing. Certainly a plumb choice for any actor.
@SogekingSchofield503 How long, before our cloning facilities are operational again? Weyoun: Not for several days perhaps, even weeks. Maybe months. Could be years, actually!
Considering the Dominion was only fighting this war with a fraction of its force (the rest of it locked up beyond the wormhole), how badly would things have turned out if they kept control of the wormhole? I mean, most of the alpha quadrant was against them and they were still putting up a good fight.
true, however the reinforcements would not guarantee a win, would highly shift it but not entirely. Also the Dominion needs to run the Dominion, it could have turned into a clusterfuck if suddenly gamma planets went "reinforcements gone...DEPLOY THE PLAN" still i agree, it would have been impossible almost, the feds got lucky (plus Odo)
I think Odo could still have the final answer saying to female Founder,”The war will be costly, but what is killing you is killing the founders. The Great Link, you, and the other changlings will all die soon. You will never live see victory and you will be forgotten. I alone have the cure so tell me: How willing are you to let the entire Link dissolve? End this war and I will save the Great Link.”
The Federation and the Klingons don't make up most of the Alpha Quadrant. There are several Alpha quadrant species that would make short work of the dominion.
The worst part of this, is that it was basically just Cardassia, with a few hundred Dominion ships. Somehow the same Cardassians that where helpless against he Klingons became so baddass with the Founder in charge.
Its an interesting subtext that the female changeling is in the middle of a nervous breakdown and is becoming increasingly erratic. Executing weyoun is nothing more than a stupid temper tantrum.
Lord Logic Yeah, Breen aren't known to mince words. Gonna be a BAD day for the Dominion when the Breen Confederacy finds out they had a changeling influencing their decision to ally themselves with the Dominion.
The answer is easy: She explains it various times to Odo. She is part of the great link, to her the same reasons that made them having to be hunted down 2000 years before (founding of the Dominion). The Vorta who helped them hide, would eventually "rewarded" by being turned into their representatives across the dominion, turned genetically into sub-survient and much more intelligent (they dwelled in trees pre-modified, according to weyoun 5). SO: To her 2000 years ago is like today, her biggest experience as a solid was being stuck in the alpha quadrant as opposed to ODO who sees humans for what they are and has only experienced the link for hours in his entire life. Also even though the show humanizes odo a bit more every season (kind of like data) he does various times explain some psychological differences prompted by some comments by others.
It's interesting, in the non-canon Star Trek: Online game, she's still a sociopath even after the treaty. She claims to have had other Changelings killed to cover up secrets, and even orders the death of Odo before finally meeting her end.
@LordExor, she indeed was always a sociopath but i wonder if her willingness to kill changelings was unintentionally due to Odo’s experience and him sharing that with the Great Link. For them to have experienced a “murder” from one of their own kind, may have been pretty traumatic
There's two explainations: 1/ Its their 'natural' humanoid form that their culture has adopted and has become second nature to them. 2/ The Founders adopted it purely for Odo's sake, to try and make him more at ease around them due to his inability to properly mimick humanoid features. Explaination 3 is that its purely a costume limitation, and they have all Founders look like that for the audience to recognise them.
No. 3 works for me. Can you imagine each Founder looking entirely different from each other? Even in other SF shows the in-show androids tend to look similar when there could easily (in universe) a wide variety.
I'd say it's 1, but they do it more for the alpha quadrant's sake (i.e. not appearing too out of place to them) and they took inspiration from Odo's attempts because it's easier to copy than to develop from scratch.
***** Nope. No matter how much abuse he would take from her, he'd still worship her and her people cause that's what they're programmed to do. I sometimes think the J'em Hadar are just pretending to worship the Founders so that they can get their fix of "the white." When it comes time for their fix, they say the same line like robots. There's no emotion behind it at all. Although a J'em Hadar did kill a Weyoun for questioning his loyalty.
***** I don't think they would obey even the Founders if they ended up going crazy. If they can turn against each other without the drug, I doubt they would hesitate to go after a Founder. Changelings are very confusing. They apparently can't be killed by physical weapons but they can be killed by phasers and disruptors. The episode that pissed me off was when the Link made Odo a solid because he killed another changeling and the female changeling said no changeling had ever harmed another but in the episode when it happened, Odo was attacked first by the changeling. Odo was just defending himself and he was punished for it. That made me hate his decision to return to the Link in the final episode. His people treated him like shit yet he wanted to rejoin them instead of staying in a relationship with Kira.
***** Well, Weyoun explained in an episode of DS9 (To The Death, I think) that the Founders ability to control the Jem'Hadar was "somewhat overstated". I think he was implying that the only way they wouldn't turn against the Founders as well is their addiction to the white. Keep in mind that without the white, the Jem'Hadar literally go insane. Meaning, they would probably see everyone, solid or changeling, as a threat to be eliminated.
+GreenDay1981 unless they're one of the lucky ones who don't need any White ("Hippocratic Oath" is the episode, I think, where Bashir tries to cure them of the addiction)
Smeggy Ben If that were the case, I doubt they would obey the Founders or anyone. They're only obedient because they wouldn't get the White if they weren't. Bashir never found a cure for their addiction in that episode cause O'Brien sabotaged the work Bashir was doing.
"Your Opinion was not solicited Billy" lol for real though, if you think that is rough, when she fails to put down the uprising (turns into full scale rebellion, the military defects) she literary orders the complete extermination of all Cardassians, how is that for PMS? lol. 800 million died before Odo stopped her.
Reminds me of a place I worked at before. What I found most astonishing. The day I quit. My boss who could of been the Founders twin sister seem hurt and confused why I left?
If the Vorta weren't subservient pawns, they would probably advice against retaliation, The order to use Cardassians as cannon fodder, would only serve to rally any Cardassians who where on the fence to Damar's cause. And send out the message to even the Breen, that integration with the Dominion is a horrible idea.
Don't forget that despite these threats, the Founder expresses sadness when Garak finally kills that Weyoun (with the cloning facilities never repaired), referring to him as "the only solid I ever trusted."
The founders were truly the worst and most evil enemy of the federation. With the Borg at least you're part of a collective functioning as equals. With Dominion, however, you are nothing more than a peon dedicated to serving founders who see your life is no more valuable than that of chewed gum on the bottom of their shoes.
I'd rather live under Dominion rule than be assimilated. You're basically free to live your life, and not required to fight usually as the Jem Hadar do that.
How is being subject to tyrants worse than literally being mind-controlled by a tyrant? The Borg were all equally slaves to the Borg Queen, without even their mind free as the subjects of the Dominion were.
The borg, at least at first, weren’t really evil, more like an unstoppable force of nature. Later they made them more human, because when telling a story, it’s really boring to have such a simple enemy, without any emotion, just doing the same thing all the time. The Dominion on the other hand was really evil and bad. Still, I think it would be much much worse to lose every individuality and be part of a collective, than to live in hiding or suppression as an individual.
@@stonem0013 It seems Dominion rule is far less repulsive than it would be with the Federation. The Federation basically occupies member worlds with spacedocks, starbases, and planetary operations, as well as assimilating the local militia into Starfleet, and economies become tied into human standards. The Dominion let their member worlds continue on as they please, as long as they do not defy the will of the Founders by going rogue. Member worlds do not have to worship Founders are gods, nor do they have give up their culture, economy, and government structure as they would have to with Federation membership. Plus, they are fully protected by the Dominion because any aggressive species would be quickly and quietly taken care of by the Jem'Hadar.
@oldtwinsna8347, species that rejected the dominion didn’t always go quickly. There was that planet that suffered horribly from the plague until thr federation cured them.
Weyoun: "They value the rule of law and the security of order, which is exactly what the Dominion offers them." Pran: (Breen speech) Weyoun: "EXCUSE ME?!"
The Founders steal territory from the Cardassians, blame them for everything that goes wrong and then act outraged when they rebel. If they didn't treat everyone else like utter crap they wouldn't be fighting a war within their own boundries. Founders brought defeat upon themselves.
One thing I always found interesting is how nice the founders were to the Breen which is in contrast with all the other races as with the rest they showed contempt or something similar even in the early interactions with them. Wonder if they liked them due to how different the Breen were from all the other species which resulted in them being viewed with suspicion and hatred much like the founders were viewed by most races.
@@nunya3163 We never found out why the Breen allied with the Dominion. They may have believed that the Federation, the Klingons and others great Powers of the "Alpha Quadrant" would inevitably expand into their own territory and threaten their isolation if something was not done to push them back.
@@TheNoiseySpectator The Breen are very powerful isolationists. The Foundress identified their abilities and determined they could, if involved, tip the momentum of the war, which hitherto was one of slow-moving attrition, decisively towards a rapid victory. My pet theory is that she Shanghaied them into the war, using both the promise of vast territorial gains for early entry in the Dominion side, but also the subtle threat that the Dominion has incredible capacity for growth, they'd conquer all the Breens neighbours eventually and if they surrounded the Breen, they would be forced despite their might to join later as just another conquered nation.
@@jaybee2402 interesting. We learned from Dr. Basher being in the Dominion prison camp that the Founders had at least one Imposter hidden in their population. 🕵️♂️
@iammadness The novels are in the Typhon Pact series. Zero Sum Game Seize the Fire Rough Beasts of Empire Paths of Disharmony Plagues of Night Raise the Dawn The last two haven't been released yet. The Breen Confederacy, Gorn Hedgemony, Tzenkethi Coalition are all Typhon Pact members.
Great news Founder -success the clone facility is ready but sadly the power couplings to the facility have been sabotaged - it will be six months before they can be switched on
You know how they say insanity can be defined as repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different positive outcome when all your previous attempts have yielded negative outcomes? I feel like that logic can be applied to the founders and their Vorta clones. As soon one fucks up badily enough they kill them as if desposing of faulty equipment and then clone a new copy to replace the previous "defective" or under performing model even though the new version is exactly the same person hence prone to all the mistakes and failings of their predecessors.
Indeed and 480p on YT in 2010 was easy enough, and I know 720p was an option too. But unlikely from source material like this, using some cheap capture card, 480p should have been easy to do.. Why videos posted in 2020 still show up in 360p is beyond me, 480p and above is easy now.
By the end of the video, I had thought that Weyoun contemplated killing the Founder. It seemed like he did everything in his power but he was constantly getting shit on for it. He does what he can and the Founder openly talks about killing him when he is trying his best. I guess it could happen as Weyoun 4 was killed by a Jem hadar simply for questioning their loyalty.
'how long before the cloning facilities are operational again' - in other words 'don't make any long term plans, chum, you won't be around to execute them'
You can find most of the love scenes in the Heart of Stone episodes in the Kira and Odo video series. Just Search for "Odo & Kira scenes - Pt. 2 ["... and then I met you"]" You'll end up watching them all.
So this is basically Combs's best role. I mean, he's kind of everywhere in 20th century scifi and horror. But he really brought characterization to the Vorta via Weyoun.
And right there, as weyoun if I wasn't programmed with the admiration to such a point that I couldn't fight it oh, I would be getting the hell right on out of there after the disposal comment
They have a suicide chip that they have to activate when they have been replaced. One Weyoun was hunted down until he agreed to activate his. They are clones. No family. No parents. No children. No future in any other role in the galaxy. No purpose but to serve the founders.
I thought the Breen speech was unintelligible. Wikipedia describes it as 'electronic cackle that served as the Breen's voices' like at 1:07 , but I'm sure he replies " yes my 'something', have a good day" at 2:16 . Am I dreaming it?
I like to imagine on the founders homeworld there must be Futurama style suicide chambers around the place where they can order vorta to go dispose of themselves when they want a new one.
and to think that - ultimately - it was her fault the Dominion lost the war due to her overriding desire for domination. Not realising that the tactics that she was used to in the Gamma Quadrant weren't used in the Alpha Quadrant because they weren't used to the threat of overwhelming force. If they'd won and then exterminated all Cardassians, Klingons Humans and Romulans, no one in the Alpha Quadrant would've dared rise up against them.
@OneTrueEdge Really? I always thought of them as the Predators (from the Predator film franchise), I think it's the anonaminity of the helmets that both species wear, even though the designs vary greatly.
Their translators must be programmed with the Breen language. Though, if you listen carefully, you can ALMOST hear what they're saying. Almost. (To me it sounds like "Yes, My Founder." Then when he turns to Weyoun, "Good luck with that.")
Changeling: "How long before the cloning facilities are operational"?
Weyoun: "Not for several days..."
*_Weyoun remembering how he's gonna die as soon as the cloning facility is operational_*
Weyoun: "....perhaps weeks..."
Yep, survival instinct kicked in!
New orders. I want all but 1 guy reassigned from repair duty
@@KnightRaymund and make sure they're incompetent!
So even a Vorta clone fears death, despite knowing the cloning facility would assure the existence of Weyoun 9?
And so weiuns survival instinct surfaces and niw decides to defect to the federation.
When the Breen weren't in space causing trouble, they work for MTA Bus next stop announcers.
Lol, brilliant!!
🤣🤣🤣
You mean the MTA Subway.
😂
LOL and the Breen sound like Charlie Brown's parents and teachers.
I always wanted an exchange between Q and the female founder, with Q's signature condescension overriding the founder's infinite arrogance.
"Gods, hey? hahhahahahaha....oh my!... That's the best laugh I've had since I turned Picard's Ready Room into a tropical rainforest."
Yeah where the fuck was Q during this whole conflict? Not for nothing but the Federation really could have used his help.
A?
Commander Fluffy My bad I meant Q
How do you think the founders came to be. It was probably something Q did.
I feel like that 'your opinion was not solicited' moment should be a meme at some point
make it so
Engage
Your opinion was not solicited 😉
That's what screenshots are for
Energize
Weyoun now knows what it's like to train your offshore replacement before you get fired.
So do I.
@@xaenon Been there. Done that. Me with 15 years of loyalty and others with 30+ years.
@@PassportToPimlico But you still did it. You trained them. You did that.
@@insontibus Not me. Those that were looking to be the next level of management did it so that they would be spared.
Classic Golden State!
One thing that I love is that Weyoun has, at least in theory, been around a while and was only on his fourth clone when he met Sisko. In the relatively short amount of time after that, he burned through clones 5-8 really fast. Turns out that messing with the alpha quadrant is bad for your health.
Almost as bad for your health as antagonizing Worf while in arm's reach.
@@koshi6505 Now that's not true. Have you tried talking to him again? Great for breaking the upper spine and loosening it up a bit
weyoun should just pretend to be his own clone.
"I'm here, founder. The old me just had me promoted!"
I would think that would be a good idea, but if I recall they're genetically programmed not to lie to the founders
@@greenhat8978 And even if that wasn't the case, it would be trivial to verify that with the facility.
@@greenhat8978He (OK, not exactly, his predecessor) lied to the Founder in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River"
"Good news, founder. The cloning facilities are back online. Unfortunately, it pains me to report, that the Weyoun template was lost in the last Federation attack. Vorta scientists are working to rebuild the template,"
"Keep me informed"
More like, "What model's are available?"
Weyoun clones live the 33rd Rule of Acquisition: It never hurts to suck up to the boss!
Lol
Douglas Baker For all the good it did him.
Silent Majority *THEM LOLOLOLLLLLL CLONES
"It's not who you know. It's how you blow who you know..."
One of the rules of Aquisition was to always have sex with the boss.
But only malesc were able to own businesses.. makes you think
The Changelings deeply hindered themselves by allowing a servitor race that unabashedly worshipped them to be their primary strategic counsel and advisors. The Founder completely lost sight of the fact that not everyone is just another Vorta for her to abuse while they smile and ask for more. So incapable of respecting other species, she lost her ability to manipulate them, because they all saw through her to the utter spite and cruelty beneath the surface.
It’s not like the Vorta rebelled or anything. It seemed to work out for them
I dont know, she did treat the Breen with respect, at least on the surface. But i agree, the Vorta arent great advisors since they are basically genetically programmed to always try to please the founders, which also means, never relay any bad news, if you can help it. So at the end of the day, if a founder wants to have reliable information it needs to check all sources itself.
@@Daniel-rd6st She treated the Breen with respect but remember in the beginning she also treated the Cardassians with respect. I've no doubt that the Breen would eventually have been in the same situation as the Cardassians. Once their usefulness was over they'd be rolled into the Dominon or eliminated.
@@Daniel-rd6st i wonder whether the breen she talked to might have also been a changeling. there was a breen in the jem'hadar prison camp, and having changelings at the top level of breen government would explain why they were willing to join the war
@MenachemSchmuel, that’s how the Founders work, but Breen culture is so mysterious to outsiders that it seems like it would be very hard to accomplish that way
Kinda feel bad for Weyoun here: He's trying his best, but the entire situation has spiraled so far out of his control that there's very little he can actually do to fix things. Most of what has gone wrong wasn't his fault, but happened on his watch, and as everyone knows, if it's not your fault but it happened on your watch, then it's your fault as far as your boss is concerned.
You can delegate authority, but you CANNOT delegate responsibility.
Not only does she blame him for the situation, she then casually reveals her desire to kill him. That is tough for any employee to hear.
It was Weyoun’s fault. He mistreated the Cardassians until they turned against him. His job was to be a diplomat, and he failed spectacularly.
ua-cam.com/video/VLA7HcI97Ao/v-deo.html
@@alanhayes961 That's funny. I mean the Founder is quite literally delegating responsibility here as he's been tasked with leading a war where loss is inevitable, a skillset he was literally not bred for.
Weyoun is right in that the Cardi's respect the rule of law, but only Cardassian law. Weyoun was wrong to believe that Damar would oppose the Dominion.
Jeff Combs is an excellent ST actor as he's really good at developing character's fully. Weyoun seemed to be a sneaky, cowering manipulative slime ball and as Captain Shran he was tougher than a Klingon and a respectable leader. That's talent.
You missed out Brunt FCA
And Brunt as a greedy two faced POS
Don't forget the sleazy alien version of Dana White on Voyager.
He was really good on Babylon 5 for just one episode some great character development
And a paranoid, yet diligent conspiracy theorist on Justice League Unlimited.
when are our cloning facilities gonna be working? uhm...probably not for like...20 years
They could just send him to talk to Worf.
@@Randy-ry9ss the problem is not the killing but getting a new one xD
Female Founder was such a great villain character
Such as the Borg leader.
@Grumpy Old Man hahahahahahaaha. Sent the wrong one
Wonder if they understood the concept of evil, as they were essentially immortal solids lifespans were inconsequental?
Your opinion was not solicited!
1:08 "Founder, can we just kill this dumbf@#k?" Weyoun 8's expression in response is beautiful.
No, what Thot Pran said was "Bullshit. This is all your fault!"
the defective Weyoun was still loyal to the Founders; he simply chose to be loyal to Odo over all the others- and still killed himself.
The Founders are dying and Odo is the only Founder who is healthy. He will rule the Dominion after all of the other Changelings are dead, so Weyoun decided that it made sense to give Odo his complete loyalty by defecting. That Weyoun wasn't defective.
@@Jimmy-fg6hmbut that Weyoun also believed that the war against the powers of the Alpha Quadrant was wrong. He believed it was time for the Founders to live in peace with other alien species. And the Dominion military should only be used in defense of the Dominion. Not to be used for conquest.
So in those way. That Weyoun was defective.
Am I the only one who thought it was hilarious that the Breen could screech incoherently and the Founders and Vorta would know exactly what they said and just continue with the conversation?
Maybe they understood their language...? That certain pitches and tones perhaps meant certain words or phrases of that screech...? You got to think bigger than that man. :) I always liked scenes such as this... It always made the atmosphere more alien, and the fact that neither species would judge each other in this demeaning kind of way (like your typical earth idiot from THIS day and age would) while they would both communicate in different ways made it a lot more realistic and interesting, imo anyways. :)
They did this trick in other franchises.
There was Star Wars, where R2D2 would bloop and squank, and the other characters understood. (I suspect that R2D2 did a lot of cussing.)
And there was George of the Jungle, in which the Tookie-Tookie Bird always said only one thing: "Awk! Awk! Eeek! Eeek! Tookie-tookie!"; yet George of the Jungle always understood immediately; in fact people would send messages to George via the Tookie-Tookie Bird.
Between the Breen, R2D2, and the Tookie-Tookie Bird, I vote the Tookie-Tookie Bird.
I am Groot!
Their universal translators were working, but the audience is supposed to still be kept in the dark... the Breen are supposed to be one of the most mysterious races in all of Trek
That one was easier to understand.
"Your opinion was not solicitated" OUCH
XDanW when this happens to you at work, it’s time to get another job
what a bitch
Loved that line. I’ve used it myself once or twice.
@@maxwellgarrison6790 Me too. It's so good. xD
@@maxwellgarrison6790 Same here
I know the vorta are made to obey the founders on a genetic level but i like to think the clone factory could have been repaired much faster, weyoun just didnt want to get replaced so quickly
These genetic obligations to obey the Founders are not foolproof, as shown by the Jem’Hadar
Its amazing how little Weyoun and the Founder understand Cardassians. Weyoun has the surface level understanding that Cardassians respect authority, but they are both missing the fact that Cardassians are a proud people convinced of their own superiority. What Damar did was totally predictable, and the Founder’s plan to oppress the Cardassians more was obviously going to lead to further rebellion. Putting Cardassians at more installations also had the obvious flaw of giving Damar potential allies at every installation.
amazing how the founder and Weyoun fell out of touch with each other considering she even said his gene line was her favorite
Also: They don't see the authority in some alliance with the dominion, but with the Cardassian High Command. And the leader of the High Command just said no to the Dominion. The Dominion forgot, that the Cardassians are overtly racists and would rather follow a leader of their own race doing something crazy than following the Dominion aliens.
@raven4k998, and when Garak killed the last Weyoun clone the Founder laments that she wishes he hadn’t done that
It really seems to me that Cardassians have a complex understanding of authority. They spend a lot of time thinking about who is in charge, which lends them to subterfuge and interwoven chains of command.
The idea that a segregated slavery would be appropriate shows minimal appreciation for them.
Hmm. I think I may have a different view. The problem wasn't necessarily a rebellion per se. These can happen from time to time, and they probably had lots of experience dealing with them. The problem is that it happened at a very bad time. Basically they were in a war, their enemies noted the rebellion and took advantage of the situation, the founders tried to shut down the rebellion, and alienated they pushed their Cardassian Space Force (Navy, or whatever you call it) against them in a middle of the decisive battle of a war.
What they should have done is wait until the battle was over before dealing with the rebellion and worked out a plan with the loyal Caradassians (including the ones that were done fighting the alpha quadrant battle) but that might have been difficult to pull off.
If I were you Weyoun I think I would take whatever vacation time I had coming and just not return. I'll forego the last check.
+gamesmaster35 Yes when dealing the founders that are NOT please with you! That would be Excellent idea!
Yep, forget cleaning out you're locker. Just leave....
*your
They already had an episode for that.
Right. Weyoun 6 tried to defect (ie: permanent vacation) with Odo.
You can't help but either wonder, OR know deep down inside that Weyoun bold-faced lied to The Founder about when that cloning facility would be operational.
Its probably a half-truth - he delivered the correct estimate (several days), then added the ‘or even weeks’.
@Randy Washington the founders would
I think she didn't meant to kill him at all, but was sucking up to the Breen.
Combs is a terrific character actor, the many times the ST franchise used him over and over again as alien characters was amazing. Certainly a plumb choice for any actor.
@SogekingSchofield503 How long, before our cloning facilities are operational again?
Weyoun: Not for several days perhaps, even weeks. Maybe months. Could be years, actually!
The Vorta plan for job security... destroy cloning facility :p
When you want to tell your boss they are doing nothing but making things worse, but you've been genetically engineered to never correct them.
I hate when that happens.
Considering the Dominion was only fighting this war with a fraction of its force (the rest of it locked up beyond the wormhole), how badly would things have turned out if they kept control of the wormhole? I mean, most of the alpha quadrant was against them and they were still putting up a good fight.
true, however the reinforcements would not guarantee a win, would highly shift it but not entirely. Also the Dominion needs to run the Dominion, it could have turned into a clusterfuck if suddenly gamma planets went "reinforcements gone...DEPLOY THE PLAN" still i agree, it would have been impossible almost, the feds got lucky (plus Odo)
I think Odo could still have the final answer saying to female Founder,”The war will be costly, but what is killing you is killing the founders. The Great Link, you, and the other changlings will all die soon. You will never live see victory and you will be forgotten. I alone have the cure so tell me: How willing are you to let the entire Link dissolve? End this war and I will save the Great Link.”
The Federation and the Klingons don't make up most of the Alpha Quadrant. There are several Alpha quadrant species that would make short work of the dominion.
@@mickeye6428 Basically every "Power of GOD" asshole from TOS would wipe their ass with the Dominion.
The worst part of this, is that it was basically just Cardassia, with a few hundred Dominion ships. Somehow the same Cardassians that where helpless against he Klingons became so baddass with the Founder in charge.
Its an interesting subtext that the female changeling is in the middle of a nervous breakdown and is becoming increasingly erratic. Executing weyoun is nothing more than a stupid temper tantrum.
The black humor on DS9 with regard to Weyoun's life was always great.
Founder philosophy...
_Solids, can't live with 'em. Can't live without 'em!_
Lol, poor Weyoun XD At least she did eventually reconsider her opinion of him
1:07 "Eyy Yoto" - Because he's holding a termal detonator!
Thot Pran (The Breen Commander) translated: 0:39 "You said the same thing about the Bajorians." 1:08 "Bullshit. This is all your fault!"
lol it does sound like hes saying bullshit
Lord Logic Yeah, Breen aren't known to mince words. Gonna be a BAD day for the Dominion when the Breen Confederacy finds out they had a changeling influencing their decision to ally themselves with the Dominion.
Translation of 2:20 : Yes Madam Founder, right away.
Weyoun is the ultimate yes man!
Oh but you've never met Ray L Watts president of UAB #FREEUAB #FIRERAYWATTS
Almost every office has a Weyoun; smiling, soft spoken, unctuous, ass-kissing middle managers whose loyalties turn on a dime.
Yes. Unfortunately, in our world you can't just break their neck like Worf did.
Except Weyoun is genetically programmed to be loyal to the changelings.
How long until our cloaning facilities are operational? That was a clear threat in the form of a question.
The answer is easy: She explains it various times to Odo. She is part of the great link, to her the same reasons that made them having to be hunted down 2000 years before (founding of the Dominion). The Vorta who helped them hide, would eventually "rewarded" by being turned into their representatives across the dominion, turned genetically into sub-survient and much more intelligent (they dwelled in trees pre-modified, according to weyoun 5). SO: To her 2000 years ago is like today, her biggest experience as a solid was being stuck in the alpha quadrant as opposed to ODO who sees humans for what they are and has only experienced the link for hours in his entire life. Also even though the show humanizes odo a bit more every season (kind of like data) he does various times explain some psychological differences prompted by some comments by others.
It's interesting, in the non-canon Star Trek: Online game, she's still a sociopath even after the treaty. She claims to have had other Changelings killed to cover up secrets, and even orders the death of Odo before finally meeting her end.
Well, remember there is no reason to think that story about the Vorta helping hide the Changeling is actually True.
@LordExor, she indeed was always a sociopath but i wonder if her willingness to kill changelings was unintentionally due to Odo’s experience and him sharing that with the Great Link. For them to have experienced a “murder” from one of their own kind, may have been pretty traumatic
The Female Founder sounds like a Teacher.
Carl Knight with that amount of evil she definitely sounds like mine....
There's two explainations:
1/ Its their 'natural' humanoid form that their culture has adopted and has become second nature to them.
2/ The Founders adopted it purely for Odo's sake, to try and make him more at ease around them due to his inability to properly mimick humanoid features.
Explaination 3 is that its purely a costume limitation, and they have all Founders look like that for the audience to recognise them.
No. 3 works for me. Can you imagine each Founder looking entirely different from each other? Even in other SF shows the in-show androids tend to look similar when there could easily (in universe) a wide variety.
I'd say it's 1, but they do it more for the alpha quadrant's sake (i.e. not appearing too out of place to them) and they took inspiration from Odo's attempts because it's easier to copy than to develop from scratch.
The look on Weyoun's face at the end was like "I wish you had gotten sick a long time ago, you old bag!"
***** Nope. No matter how much abuse he would take from her, he'd still worship her and her people cause that's what they're programmed to do. I sometimes think the J'em Hadar are just pretending to worship the Founders so that they can get their fix of "the white." When it comes time for their fix, they say the same line like robots. There's no emotion behind it at all. Although a J'em Hadar did kill a Weyoun for questioning his loyalty.
***** I don't think they would obey even the Founders if they ended up going crazy. If they can turn against each other without the drug, I doubt they would hesitate to go after a Founder. Changelings are very confusing. They apparently can't be killed by physical weapons but they can be killed by phasers and disruptors. The episode that pissed me off was when the Link made Odo a solid because he killed another changeling and the female changeling said no changeling had ever harmed another but in the episode when it happened, Odo was attacked first by the changeling. Odo was just defending himself and he was punished for it. That made me hate his decision to return to the Link in the final episode. His people treated him like shit yet he wanted to rejoin them instead of staying in a relationship with Kira.
***** Well, Weyoun explained in an episode of DS9 (To The Death, I think) that the Founders ability to control the Jem'Hadar was "somewhat overstated". I think he was implying that the only way they wouldn't turn against the Founders as well is their addiction to the white. Keep in mind that without the white, the Jem'Hadar literally go insane. Meaning, they would probably see everyone, solid or changeling, as a threat to be eliminated.
+GreenDay1981 unless they're one of the lucky ones who don't need any White ("Hippocratic Oath" is the episode, I think, where Bashir tries to cure them of the addiction)
Smeggy Ben If that were the case, I doubt they would obey the Founders or anyone. They're only obedient because they wouldn't get the White if they weren't. Bashir never found a cure for their addiction in that episode cause O'Brien sabotaged the work Bashir was doing.
She is as cold as ICE! OUCH
Willing to sacrifice
She would be the kind of Grandmother that would beat you have to death, and then start asking questions !
:)
No one asked for you opinion ;)
"Your Opinion was not solicited Billy" lol for real though, if you think that is rough, when she fails to put down the uprising (turns into full scale rebellion, the military defects) she literary orders the complete extermination of all Cardassians, how is that for PMS? lol. 800 million died before Odo stopped her.
@michaelhviper Under their helmets, the Breen all look like Princess Leia. They wear the metal bikinis under their suits and everything.
The Founder had that look of "Would you shut your DAMN mouth, Weyoun!"
I'd watch an entire movie focused on him as Commander Shran of the Andorian Imperial Guard.
Founder: Weyoun n00b, uninstall Stellaris.
0:39
You said it, Chewie.
Reminds me of a place I worked at before. What I found most astonishing. The day I quit. My boss who could of been the Founders twin sister seem hurt and confused why I left?
If the Vorta weren't subservient pawns, they would probably advice against retaliation, The order to use Cardassians as cannon fodder, would only serve to rally any Cardassians who where on the fence to Damar's cause. And send out the message to even the Breen, that integration with the Dominion is a horrible idea.
Now go to your room Weyoun.
I dont know what you guy´s think but IMO the guy who played WEYOUN did a awsome job...
Bloody clones, next thing you know they will have an army of them...
Clones, keeping track of them is a full time job
Don't forget that despite these threats, the Founder expresses sadness when Garak finally kills that Weyoun (with the cloning facilities never repaired), referring to him as "the only solid I ever trusted."
The founders were truly the worst and most evil enemy of the federation. With the Borg at least you're part of a collective functioning as equals. With Dominion, however, you are nothing more than a peon dedicated to serving founders who see your life is no more valuable than that of chewed gum on the bottom of their shoes.
I'd rather live under Dominion rule than be assimilated. You're basically free to live your life, and not required to fight usually as the Jem Hadar do that.
How is being subject to tyrants worse than literally being mind-controlled by a tyrant? The Borg were all equally slaves to the Borg Queen, without even their mind free as the subjects of the Dominion were.
The borg, at least at first, weren’t really evil, more like an unstoppable force of nature. Later they made them more human, because when telling a story, it’s really boring to have such a simple enemy, without any emotion, just doing the same thing all the time. The Dominion on the other hand was really evil and bad. Still, I think it would be much much worse to lose every individuality and be part of a collective, than to live in hiding or suppression as an individual.
@@stonem0013 It seems Dominion rule is far less repulsive than it would be with the Federation. The Federation basically occupies member worlds with spacedocks, starbases, and planetary operations, as well as assimilating the local militia into Starfleet, and economies become tied into human standards. The Dominion let their member worlds continue on as they please, as long as they do not defy the will of the Founders by going rogue. Member worlds do not have to worship Founders are gods, nor do they have give up their culture, economy, and government structure as they would have to with Federation membership. Plus, they are fully protected by the Dominion because any aggressive species would be quickly and quietly taken care of by the Jem'Hadar.
@oldtwinsna8347, species that rejected the dominion didn’t always go quickly. There was that planet that suffered horribly from the plague until thr federation cured them.
Weyoun: "They value the rule of law and the security of order, which is exactly what the Dominion offers them."
Pran: (Breen speech)
Weyoun: "EXCUSE ME?!"
The funny thing was, this was probably considered decent quality video when it was first uploaded 13 years ago
The Founders steal territory from the Cardassians, blame them for everything that goes wrong and then act outraged when they rebel. If they didn't treat everyone else like utter crap they wouldn't be fighting a war within their own boundries. Founders brought defeat upon themselves.
Everything that they did worked in the Gamma Quadrant
@MissRindaDiLibda The Breen helmet looks very similar to a costume from Return of the Jedi. That's the basis of the joke.
One thing I always found interesting is how nice the founders were to the Breen which is in contrast with all the other races as with the rest they showed contempt or something similar even in the early interactions with them. Wonder if they liked them due to how different the Breen were from all the other species which resulted in them being viewed with suspicion and hatred much like the founders were viewed by most races.
Probably because they needed the Breen, but the Breen did not need them. The Breen signed on out of greed, so they had to promise them the world.
@@nunya3163 We never found out why the Breen allied with the Dominion.
They may have believed that the Federation, the Klingons and others great Powers of the "Alpha Quadrant" would inevitably expand into their own territory and threaten their isolation if something was not done to push them back.
@@TheNoiseySpectator The Breen are very powerful isolationists. The Foundress identified their abilities and determined they could, if involved, tip the momentum of the war, which hitherto was one of slow-moving attrition, decisively towards a rapid victory. My pet theory is that she Shanghaied them into the war, using both the promise of vast territorial gains for early entry in the Dominion side, but also the subtle threat that the Dominion has incredible capacity for growth, they'd conquer all the Breens neighbours eventually and if they surrounded the Breen, they would be forced despite their might to join later as just another conquered nation.
@@jaybee2402 interesting. We learned from Dr. Basher being in the Dominion prison camp that the Founders had at least one Imposter hidden in their population. 🕵️♂️
he was good as every character
The Female Changeling was so gangster!
I'm pretty sure the Breen's second dialogue was "Bullshit! This is all your fault!".
That's exactly what he said. Prior to that, he had said "You said the same thing about the Bajorans."
@iammadness
The novels are in the Typhon Pact series. Zero Sum Game Seize the Fire Rough Beasts of Empire Paths of Disharmony Plagues of Night Raise the Dawn
The last two haven't been released yet.
The Breen Confederacy, Gorn Hedgemony, Tzenkethi Coalition are all Typhon Pact members.
Anybody else the Breen helmet is a giant version of Leia's bounty hunter helmet?
I'd like to see The Founder vs Janeway
ah, 240p we meet again at last...
Great news Founder -success the clone facility is ready but sadly the power couplings to the facility have been sabotaged - it will be six months before they can be switched on
You know how they say insanity can be defined as repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different positive outcome when all your previous attempts have yielded negative outcomes? I feel like that logic can be applied to the founders and their Vorta clones. As soon one fucks up badily enough they kill them as if desposing of faulty equipment and then clone a new copy to replace the previous "defective" or under performing model even though the new version is exactly the same person hence prone to all the mistakes and failings of their predecessors.
And heavily motivated NOT to repeat their predecessor's mistakes.
@MissRindaDiLibda
Memory beta has it. Guess 99% of the background stuff that is canon doesn't make it on tv.
Terrorism against the nature of Cardassians? I guess someone should've told Weyoun about the True Way.
240p we meet again.
Indeed and 480p on YT in 2010 was easy enough, and I know 720p was an option too. But unlikely from source material like this, using some cheap capture card, 480p should have been easy to do.. Why videos posted in 2020 still show up in 360p is beyond me, 480p and above is easy now.
@@marcusdamberger I agree.
that "keep me informed" at the end.... goddamn Weyoun you're in trouble
By the end of the video, I had thought that Weyoun contemplated killing the Founder. It seemed like he did everything in his power but he was constantly getting shit on for it. He does what he can and the Founder openly talks about killing him when he is trying his best. I guess it could happen as Weyoun 4 was killed by a Jem hadar simply for questioning their loyalty.
So much technology. And the Cloning Facilities. Are down ??
'how long before the cloning facilities are operational again' - in other words 'don't make any long term plans, chum, you won't be around to execute them'
I think that person said he had a thermal detonator.
"The Founder is wise in all things"
You can find most of the love scenes in the Heart of Stone episodes in the Kira and Odo video series. Just Search for
"Odo & Kira scenes - Pt. 2 ["... and then I met you"]"
You'll end up watching them all.
When Star Trek was good!
Callum Bush i saw one episode of discovery and its complete garbage with way to much SJW Bs for the sake of SJW Bs
@@absurdemtiefer1950 Star Trek has ALWAYS been SJW.
To meet a god is to lose fath in gods
The Weyouns have their faith genetically programmed.
So this is basically Combs's best role. I mean, he's kind of everywhere in 20th century scifi and horror. But he really brought characterization to the Vorta via Weyoun.
Weyoun says Cardassians "respect authority". Yeah...when it's their OWN.
And right there, as weyoun if I wasn't programmed with the admiration to such a point that I couldn't fight it oh, I would be getting the hell right on out of there after the disposal comment
They have a suicide chip that they have to activate when they have been replaced. One Weyoun was hunted down until he agreed to activate his. They are clones. No family. No parents. No children. No future in any other role in the galaxy. No purpose but to serve the founders.
it sounded like the last phrase uttered by the Breen soldier was "have a nice day"
Perhaps he should talk to Worf again.
I miss Deep Space Nine. It should have gone longer than just 7 seasons.
At least a few more episodes or one more season. They rushed the last few episodes to a fault.
These aliens where very human in their thinking
The boss from hell; you have it better unless you have the misfortune of working in a North Korean labor camp.
I thought the Breen speech was unintelligible. Wikipedia describes it as 'electronic cackle that served as the Breen's voices' like at 1:07 , but I'm sure he replies " yes my 'something', have a good day" at 2:16 . Am I dreaming it?
Legend has it those facilities are still undergoing extensive repairs
BRO thats a kit bashed helmet from STARWARS, princess leia wears it while rescuing han solo in jabas palace
I like to imagine on the founders homeworld there must be Futurama style suicide chambers around the place where they can order vorta to go dispose of themselves when they want a new one.
Well we all know what the Breen said!!!!
+Victoria Ramos Yea, WTF am I doing here?
Yes we do.😏
Such a good writers device. They didn't have to write _specific_ lines for the Breen to say, Jeffery Combs's reaction told us.
Yes and I think that Breen was out of line to say that about your mother.
It said "Someone who loves you."
Breen : I like Big Butts!
Why didn't the Dominion use the Hurq?
and to think that - ultimately - it was her fault the Dominion lost the war due to her overriding desire for domination. Not realising that the tactics that she was used to in the Gamma Quadrant weren't used in the Alpha Quadrant because they weren't used to the threat of overwhelming force.
If they'd won and then exterminated all Cardassians, Klingons Humans and Romulans, no one in the Alpha Quadrant would've dared rise up against them.
The Female Founder that entire clip was like "I'm about to kill me a Weyoun"
@OneTrueEdge Really? I always thought of them as the Predators (from the Predator film franchise), I think it's the anonaminity of the helmets that both species wear, even though the designs vary greatly.
Breen voice technology is used by all fast food drive-thru speaker systems, its a standard
She been talking to Hamas hasn't she.
how comes the founder knows what the Breen are saying and nobody else does.
Their translators must be programmed with the Breen language.
Though, if you listen carefully, you can ALMOST hear what they're saying.
Almost.
(To me it sounds like "Yes, My Founder." Then when he turns to Weyoun, "Good luck with that.")
The universal translator in your monitor hasn't been programmed to understand Breen.
weyound understands them too
Where did they get all the Weyouns?
It must have been nearly impossible to find so many actors who look almost identical.
God, Weyoun is such a brown-nose.
That was kinda the point of his species.