Why Chibnall Doesn't Work: Rosa
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2021
- Bloody Beakerfolk.
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CREDITS
Written, Edited and Narrated by Rohan Moran
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"Rosa" is the third episode of the eleventh series of the British science fiction television programme Doctor Who. It was written by Malorie Blackman and executive producer Chris Chibnall, and directed by Mark Tonderai, and was first broadcast on BBC One on 21 October 2018.
In the episode, alien time traveller the Doctor (Jodie Whittaker), and her companions Graham O'Brien (Bradley Walsh), Ryan Sinclair (Tosin Cole), and Yasmin Khan (Mandip Gill), arrive in Alabama in 1955, and find themselves seeking to stop time-travelling criminal Krasko (Joshua Bowman) from preventing Rosa Parks (Vinette Robinson) influencing the American civil rights movement during the Montgomery bus boycott.
The footage and images featured in the video were for critical review and parody, which are protected under the Fair Use laws of the United States Copyright act of 1976.
You're still here? Oh well, thanks for looking ! - Фільми й анімація
I'm excited to cover more Doctor Who, but I'm also eager to start exploring some new content! Is there anything people would like to see more cover? Perhaps recent films, or maybe more UK comedy?
Honestly I’m just happy to see you tear apart Chib’s bad show running!
After watching this episode and seeing all the love it got online, it made me worried I was the only person who felt like Chibnall managed to write a story about Rosa Parks where the white characters are portrayed as the real heros during the climax. Then Chibnall seems to pat himself on the back with that ending on the asteroid and the doctors little lecture to the fam. This episode left me feeling a bit sick inside to be honest.
have u heard of neil breen and please can u review his seminal artistic works
Zack Snyder's new zombie film that came out in Netflix the other day is hilariously mediocre at best, totally recommend getting some friends together and watching it.
If you wanted to look at more UK comedy, maybe you could do a video on Friday Night Dinner, now that its ended.
I saw an interesting idea for a Rosa rewrite a while ago, where Krasko, instead of being a space racist from the future, was instead a regular guy from 1950's America who managed to get a hold of a vortex manipulator, travel to the future to see the progress the civil rights movements made and then decided to try and prevent it by going back in time to stop Rosa's protest. I quite liked the idea, helped ground the antagonist in the plot a bit more I thought.
That's so much better?
Yes!! That plot makes a lot more sense. It's hard for me to believe that a person will still be so "early 20th century" racist so far into the future even if he is a criminal. I mean humanity is meeting and living with aliens for god's sake!! It's so unbelievable
The only way this stupid antagonist from so far in the future could work, is if it's revealed that it's based on capitalist propaganda...
Yeah, Rosa Parks is "where everything started going wrong."
That is so petty and random...reminds me of how the rich have gotten white workers fighting against non-white workers, literally forever, to prevent the working class from uniting.
In reality...The dude should have either went waaay back farther. He could just stop Americans from bringing Africans here in the first place. 🤷
In reality, it's pretty laughable that there hasn't been some, uh, bigger changes, by his time, that he might be more concerned about. 🤔
This is actually like, the worse set up antagonist. It seems like a joke!
How do people keep getting vortex manipulators tho, river got hers from a dead time agent
@@redhood7650 Eh, they fell off a truck
My wife, US History professor, was so confused and disappointed by this episode. The idea that Rosa Parks started the Civil Rights Movement, that thousands of other people weren't already organizing and protesting for years before and after, betrays so much ignorance of the era that it makes you wonder why they wanted to write an episode about it.
It's like blowing up Apollo 11 and expecting all of humanity to give up space travel forever.
Unfortunately, in America, that's largely how the Civil Rights Movement is taught. Ms. Parks is also given very little agency, as her role in planning and protesting prior to this is completely erased. She is depicted as a saintly woman, just too tired to give up her seat. And this is just the same.
That was my biggest problem with the episode too, apart from the cartoonish villain. So she doesn't go to the back of the bus one day, it could never happen again the next day, or the day after that.
If a space racist had all of time and space to go back to, it’s just ludicrous to say they’d say Rosa Parks was the moment it changed. Immediately upon seeing the episode, my first thought was why didn’t he just go back to the civil war to try and stop the Union winning? If he’s this much of a space racist, I can’t imagine him thinking ‘slavery no but we must keep segregation’ when segregation was slowly being chipped at by 1955
Yeah there’s so many factors that led to the movement other than Rosa Parks. What about the death of Emmett Till? A possible premise centred around whether or not to let a kid die would’ve been really interesting.
Did your wife mention, Claudette Colvin, the 15-year-old who came before Rosa Parks?
I’m glad chin all told us that racism is bad otherwise I wouldn’t have known
Already have watched Jay Exci's 5 hour "The Fall of Doctor Who".
Still not enough. I want more criticism of Chibnall. That's funny
There's like no end to how much you can criticize it. He mangled and butchered the show.
Joining Mauler's posse seemed to have tanked the quality of Jay's content; conciseness is thrown out the window in turn for baffling them with sheer length.
@@wachyfanning Simply being long isn't in and of itself a bad thing. I've watched Jay's video and, while it was quite long, at no point did I feel as though that length was unnecessary.
If you feel otherwise, the video is separated into chapters using UA-cam's chapter system, which I think makes for easier watching, because you can just watch one chapter at a time.
I also think that it's somewhat in bad faith of you to assume Jay's intention regarding the length of his videos. The phrasing of "Baffling them with sheer length" implies, whether intentionally or not, that the content of his videos cannot hold up under scrutiny, so he deliberately lengthens his videos in an attempt to obfuscate what would otherwise be weak arguments.
That said, however, I do agree with you that a video should be no longer than however long is necessary to cover whatever topics are being discussed, which is precisely why I don't watch EFAP, since they have a tendency to ramble on that show.
TL:DR: Length isn't bad if it serves a purpose, and it's unfair to presume other people's intentions.
@Lachlan Fanning He went through every single episode. I really don't think he could have cut it down any further, just because of how much content he had to cover and recap.
If he split them up by Season parts/episodes, different videos, no one would question it. (It would be a lot though and will take even more work. Point is, no one would notice, because the title would communicate how much content it's recapping.
@@wachyfanning How are Mauler and Jay not concise with the time given? Elaborate.
The incident with Rosa historically wasn't even a fluke. Actually, a lot of famous events were semi-staged. Rosa, purposefully waited for the bus to be full to protest against moving. Civil rights activists put a lot of time and effort into planning all the famous protests. If Rosa hadn't done it then, they would have just tried again or had someone else do it
"Rosa" reminds me a lot of the Eleventh Doctor episode "Vincent and the Doctor", which is my favorite from that era. The difference, however, is that Vincent van Gogh felt more like a person and had more to do rather than just being fawned over. We're SHOWN his struggles rather than having them explained to us and rather than being told that he was a monumental figure in history, a character expresses their personal opinion and lets the audience decide how much of an impact Van Gogh made. Sure, the Krayfayis wasn't particularly intimidating or fleshed out but it was a great representation for the blinding and destructive effect that depression can have on someone and actually went along with the rest of the episode quite nicely. The Doctor and Amy spend time with Vincent, get to know him and form an emotional attachment so that when they learn that he still committed suicide, it made that much more of an impact. Eleven's speech about taking the bad with the good was very heartfelt instead of patronizing and, although bittersweet, the ending still concluded on a hopeful note. "Rosa", on the other hand, felt more like a severely simplified, inaccurate, and one-sided history lecture that was made to guilt-trip people rather than inform them. As opposed to the Krayfayis, which was purposely made to be a wild animal, Krasko is a sentient being with clear goals and motivations but has very little to do with the story, apart from providing the episode with a racist caricature for a villain when someone from the time period would've worked just as well. I don't want to insult Rosa Parks or negate her accomplishments but to say that the civil rights movement and ALL racial equality wouldn't have been made possible without her is extremely misinformative.
Yes I like that they befriend Van Gogh and don’t depict him as a mystical unapproachable figure but instead a deeply creative person with untreated mental health issues.
@@coleeckerman1390 His depiction there reminds me of the movie Lust for Life (1956), which also portrayed Van Gogh as a misunderstood, brilliant and passionate man but also a psychologically and emotionally troubled individual. It's a great watch and I recommend it.
I always got the sense that Chibnall tries to write out plotholes in a way that makes even more plotholes. Like, he worries people will ask "oh, why doesn't space racist man just kill Rosa", so he writes in the inhibitor chip thing, then thinks "but then how will he be a threat" and gives the the temporal displacement machine that allows him to kill people in a way that bypasses the chip, but doesn't realise that now we've gone back to the first problem, only now because it is specifically explained in the plot that he would kill her if he could, turns it from a contrivance to a legitimate plothole.
Yes, I remember wondering why he doesn't just displace her in time.
@@paulbeardsley4095 Because Chibnall didn't think that far ahead
The virgin: Rosa, Doctor Who episode
vs
the chad: I sat on a bus, Horrible Histories song.
I went and listened to that song right after watching the episode to try and get the nasty taste out of my mouth!
horrible histories was such a good show
I used to complain that the Moffat era was being too clever for it's own good but the Chibnall era is exact opposite and arguably much worse. From the few clips I've seen it feels like the writers are talking down to the audience with their social messages since they lack any nuance. This is the kind of messaging I'd expect from a kids show.
I love these reviews. They are proper, well thought out criticisms rather than just rants, and you go into detail about all aspects of the episode and not just the plot or just the characters. These have become some of my favourite videos to watch ngl.
Thank you! I'm so glad you're enjoying them, it's been great to finally get my feelings on this series out there.
@@JackWolf10 Did you catch Jay_Exci's 5 and a half hour video on Chibnall Who? Jay uploaded it a few days ago. I said you guys need to collab or livestream together or something.
@@DonnaCPunk I did see it, I thought it was really impressive and made excellent points! I especially appreciate that they called out a lot of the flaws in Demons of the Punjab.
@@DonnaCPunk - Jack's videos are far, far better than Jay's.
Really wasn't impressed with that Snyder-Cut-Review; he was just repeating what everyone's said before. I agree with most of it, just felt like my time was wasted. Jay makes interesting new points, as well as actually being quite funny. That's all I ask.
@@nightowl8477 I'd definitely check out Jay's DW video. I loved that she even brought in references for her points from Big Finish audios too. I don't tend to watch a lot of Jay's long form stuff, but the DW is worth the time.
Honestly if they needed a villain for the episode I wouldn't have made it a space racist from 5000 years in the future. I would've made him an alien sent back to change history because "this is one of the events that helped unite humanity as a species. It made them strong. I will make them weak and easier to conquer." It's ok sci fi, puts an optimistic view on the future, and by saying "one of the events" it's shows that although Rosa was important she wasn't the be all end all.
I like that quite a lot actually. Hell that could be part of a series arc with multiple disturbances through time.
@@JackWolf10 culminating in a finale where the doctor impersonator and the yes men, sorry: "fam" have to split up and travel to different periods in history to defeat the invasion. Even better, make it the aliens introduced in spyfall.
That's another storyline that went nowhere
The video hasn't premiered yet, but one thing that I'm hoping comes up in the critique is this:
If _Rosa_ does one thing right, it is widely acknowledged that it teaches young children about Rosa Parks and what she did. Here's the thing though: *IT DOESN'T.* It misinforms more than it educates. It depicts a _laughably simplified_ version of events, robbing the Rosa Parks character of the agency she had in real life, and invites us to believe this version of events as if it were fact.
Maybe some allowances could be made for it being sci-fi and therefore entertainment, but the BBC loses all rights to that argument when they congratulate themselves so hard for it being "educational". Indeed I've heard actual teachers (Americans even!) saying that they use this episode in class to teach kids about racism.
The two biggest ways they misrepresent Parks in this episode are 1) they made it look like she did it alone, and 2) *they made look like she changed history by accident* - as evidenced by the narrative that she _needed_ to get on a bus at a particular place and time, otherwise it wouldn't have worked. This is of course necessary to set up the "fixed points in time" plot, but that narrative simply didn't exist in reality. Parks was very much _trying_ to get arrested as part of a planned activist effort to show that this law was unjust, so *if Krasko had succeeded in stopping the bus, **_she'd have just tried it again on a different day._*
The wider activist effort is briefly acknowledged in a scene where the other NAACP activists meet Ryan for some reason (something Malorie Blackman likely pushed to include in the episode), really just to show that they're there. But their influence is absent outside of that scene. Cut it, and nothing else about the plot would change.
One of the historic figures we meet in that scene was already laying the groundwork for what Rosa Parks became well-known for. Fred Gray (1930- ... actually he's still alive) is the lawyer who defended Rosa Parks, but he also defended four other black women in the _Browder v. Gayle_ case, which is ultimately what won them the legal reforms that Parks herself was pushing for. And while Parks's case got stuck in the state courts, the other case went to the Supreme Court, meaning that the result became law at the federal level. And for what it's worth, one of the _Browder v. Gayle_ defendents (Claudette Colvin, who is also still alive) was arrested for sitting in a whites-only seat on a crowded segregated bus... in 1954, nine months before Parks was very publicly arrested for doing the same thing.
There are reasons why Colvin is a footnote in history while everyone remembers Parks. She was a teenager, and became pregnant at the time of her court case, whereas Parks was an upstanding citizen. Remember that these battles also needed to be won in the court of public opinion. So as you probably could have guessed, Parks was not just some seamstress who got pulled into the story. She was already an activist, and very much by choice.
But the episode seems to prefer the version of it where one woman acted alone to End Racism because her legs were tired or something. And that does a disservice to everyone involved.
Ah well, I should expect no better. It's the same version of events that was taught to me in English class. Yes, _English._
Growing up in the UK, black history wasn't part of our compulsory history curriculum. But the English department at my school decided to teach it anyway. They weren't history teachers, and the actual history was only covered in passing (for a lesson plan about the language used in newspaper articles or something like that).
And I bring this up because it's the same thing that happens when people stray outside their area of expertise, believing that they _have to_ be the ones to teach these lessons, because they seem to think that no one else will.
Chris Chibnall et al were _supposed_ to be writing a sci-fi adventure. That is (allegedly) their area of expertise. The reason it didn't work is because they insisted on teaching history, and consequently failed to do either.
That and the fact that it was 90% an excuse for white guys to flex about how much they hate racism.
Ah alright. Thanks for the clear up, mate. I get what you mean now
It makes me wonder ... Doctor Who stouts having scientific consultants. Does it not have any Historians to help with the drama for the Historical adventures?
@@LPTV84 Doctor Who is also pretty bad at "teaching" science to be frank. I can't remember where I left my rant about the antimatter scene in The Tsuranga Conundrum - which btw also had a character randomly announce that they'd learned it in school - but I'm convinced it was of similar (i.e. _negative)_ educational value.
Edit: it was on this video. ua-cam.com/video/6CuTSdCCJ1g/v-deo.html
But there was another video on JackWolf's channel that brings up the issue with acetylene in The Ghost Monument, which I believe was _also_ meant to be educational, and it had the same problem.
Nice definition of virtue signalling.
With these reviews (and one where I found out the thing about the Doctor weaponizing the Master's race) I think it's safe to say this era of Doctor Who is pure liberal garbage. It's a bunch of upper class white people patting themselves on the back for being so progressive. I am still not over the fact that DW starts it's first female Doctor by fridging a *black woman*. And the thing with Jo Martin has some serious issues. (And yes, I know the writer and director of this episode were black, but that still goes with white Chibnall patting himself on the back)
it would have been great if Ryan actually had a conversation with Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King about his experiences with Racism and how it's affected him, i genuinely believe it could have been a growing point for him aswell, except all we got was "OMG, IT'S ROSA PARKS AND MARTIN LUTHER KING UWU, ILY"
And the way he kept calling them "Rosa Parks" and "Martin Luther King"! How ridiculous! "Thank you, Martin Luther King". So awkward. "Thank you, Sir!" would have been what a normal person would say.
The literally personification of racism really kills the episode for me here. As much as Krasko is the saving grace for how stereotypical he is, the actor is just making it as ridiculous as possible. Also that super cheesy pop song at the end was just awful when if you watch the scene without sound it’s about 20 times more powerful.
These are the two main reasons I dislike this episode ngl the rest of it I like
The scene would have hit *that* much harder. I remember thinking "Oh this is actually pretty good" and then the song started playing and I was like "Goddammit."
People will tell me that I only don’t like this episode because Rosa Parks is a strong powerful woman in history but they refuse to acknowledge that The Unicorn And The Wasp is one of my favourite episodes because of how Agatha Christie is portrayed. I’m more disappointed that an episode with Rosa Parks has now been wasted on this absolute crap and now we probably can’t have another/better episode with her again because of it
Nothing says strong and powerful like having absolutely no agency on your existence as shown in Rosa
Sorry what? The Unicorn and the Wasp is your favourite episode? Are you short of a few marbles? That episode fucking sucks lol
@@lovablesnowman sorry, but theu
a) said "one of", so it may not be their all time favourite
b) are allowed to have an opinion
One takeaway I got from watching this video: there was a short scene with Yaz and Ryan that you captured. Very, very short. Yaz says to Ryan something like "Did you accidentally compliment me?" and Ryan freezes for a moment with a scared look on his face, and then runs away. Yaz then has this really beautiful smile that says "Yeah, I still got it" or "Yeah, he likes me!". They both were perfect and likable in that scene, short as it was. It was like I was seeing the two of them for the first time. So short, yet for a brief moment, Yaz and Ryan were actually characters, characters you could like. It could have been the beginning of nice little romance, could have given these two actors a step up in the ranks, could have given them their own stories... and seconds later they're in an alleyway talking about President Obama. And the moment was gone, never to come back. The rest of the Rosa Park story - just Chibnall trying to do a big important story and failing completely.
Yeah, they nearly had a little romance brewing but then it all disappeared for some reason.
@@JackWolf10 Because they want to hint at a relationship between yaz and the doctor but never actually do it to keep people watching
@beef business Ryan's delivery is dead most of the time, sadly. I remember a critique of S11 which said that it was as if someone "puts a sedative into [Tosin Cole's] cocoa before pushing him on set". I'm quite positive about the current era (although I'm not blind to its many flaws), but I had to agree in this case. Ryan's easily the dullest Companion I can remember, and I've been watching for 50+ years.
@@joshuawright4198 Exactly that. They decided to perpetuate the long boring 'companion must always be into the Doctor' thing, and instead doing a twist on it by having the older Bradley connect with the old soul that is the Doctor, they dropped their obvious planned romance between Yaz and Ryan to instead have the pretty young female companion swoon for the Doctor again and tease fake-lesbians that they probably will not ever actually act on outside of novels where most of their audience will never see.
Imagine what would happen when they would break up. Doctor also would have something to grow up AND graham would be also involved.
And romance probably should happen, when in 4th episode Yaz sister hinted that Ryan is "nice looking guy"
It's incredible how the chat came up with better ideas on how Doctor Who could grapple racism. Not to mention you did a lot more research that better represented the civil rights movement of the USA and internationally.
this episode is a perfect analogy of the current woke movement. totally out of touch and thinking they are all important.
to compare todays racism with the racism back then is so out of touch, it's mind baffling.
they reduce rosa parks heroic deed to a mere coincidence. this is disgusting.
and they only show surface level racism of the time, to portrait a clear cut bad vs good statement.
thats what the current woke movement is all about. they think they are the good guys, and they must defeat the bad guys.
but todays society is so much more nuanced and grey, than back then.
but thats what you get, when you have a woke activist as your episode writer, without any prior sci-writing experience (that is not hyperbole. the author didn't have any prior sci-fi experience)
Dear future revival writers: Just retcon the last few seasons as The Doctor being trapped in the Land of Fiction.
Just say the master played a trick on the doctor or the valeyard doing some play.
So you know the memory crabs from the Capaldi Christmas special?
Those returned or something...
Hey, we have the Toymaker making an appearance, I'm sure he could whip up such a thing.
Using the word "sanitised" is interesting when discussing Doctor Who historicals.
Fittingly, there's a time and a place for such an approach. This isn't one of them. Neither is The Witchfinders. I remember listening to an extract of the novelisation, in which 13 says _"This is a tricky time for women. And whatever Lizzie's shortcomings, no one can say that she didn't blaze a trail."_ Because, you know, being a woman trumps being a murderous tyrant. Gives me 'Kamala Harris bombing Syria is girl power' vibes.
Margaret Thatcher Girl Power vibes
i feel like this should have been treated similarly to planet of the ood, where the doctor and companions have next to no agency in the story but it's still worth watching for their perspective and to see the story unfold with them. they should have removed the villain and all that conflict. i don't think it was needed to make it more interesting, since the events on their own are already compelling enough. as you mentioned, they could have instead focussed on how the tardis crew react to everything and give more character to people like rosa and explore the nuances of racism. as for why they'd stay in the hellhole that is 1950s alabama, you can always just have the tardis break down lol
That's a good comparison. I have heard a lot of criticism over the years about how the Doctor and Donna don't have much impact on the plot of Planet of the Ood, but when I rewatched it recently I realised that the story wouldn't work nearly as well if they had been directly involved in fighting the company and freeing the Ood. Doing that would remove the Ood of all their agency, and turn the episode into (for lack of a better term) a "white saviour" type narrative. You actually get a far greater level of catharsis by actually seeing the oppressed overthrow their oppressors pretty much on their own, with human characters like Dr. Ryder (and bear in mind that I can actually remember his name - one sign of a competently written character) providing just enough help to make their uprising more effective
It’s funny that you describe 1950s Alabama as a hellhole. Folks in 2100 will consider many of us to be ignorant, unwashed bumpkins, because the present is often embarrassed by the past. Apart from the cultural issue of racism, I expect folks in Alabama did what the could, like the folks in England did what they could prior to the abolition of slavery (as pioneered by William Wilberforce).
@@kennethos any time period will look bad after long enough, but 1950s alabama was especially bad for racism even back then, much like how england is especially bad for transphobia right now
@@Shurikenofdoomed Hm. We’ll disagree with the “transphobia” argument (I’m finding it striking how many out lesbians and very progressive women find themselves on the “wrong side” of the issue, which tells me it’s more simple/complicated than they’re letting on) and head straight to the racism. It’s simple: every age is racist in some unknown ways. Most folks have some unkind racial thoughts. In the past, we often ignored them politely out of being embarrassed by them. Today, there’s a great deal of virtue-signaling by folks desperate to assure the world they’re not racists. It’s silly. I rarely meet open racists of any skin color; I simply meet ignorant people of every race. That includes you and me. If you think you’re somehow better...good luck with that, friend.
@@kennethos i don't think i ever said i was better
Are we going to point out the weird as hell plot hole?
Krasko has a Temporal Displacement Weapon.
The weapon is treated as a NON-LETHAL object.
Which he doesn't use on Rosa.
Huh?
The only scene of this episode I like was Ryan not caring about Rosa Parks in the beginning because she's U.S. American and he's British and being apathetic towards it. It shows that not all racial struggles are transnational and that just because Ryan is Black doesn't mean that he has to be interested in the struggles of Black Americans... Then they gave him a 180 later on.
As if the woke brigade could ever concede that American social issues are completely different to British social issues. There are the same people who march and chant "hands up dont shoot" in London while our unarmed police force look on bemused
And even after all the things it gets wrong it's still regarded as one of the best episodes of the Chibnall era. Which doesn't speak too well about the Chibnall era as a whole...
I suggest that this is because those who vote it best are also as deeply involved in virtue signalling as Chibnall is.
The thing is that I think that this episode was co-written by Chris Chibnall and Malorie Blackman? And personally I'm convinced that ALL the good bits were written by Malorie Blackman (who's writing I've loved for years actually) and all the bad bits were written by Chibbers.
Malorie: "So it's about racism in the US."
Chibbers: "So are there aliens doing racism?"
Malorie: "No it's just real history."
Chibbers: "Fuck you I'm adding a time-travelling klansman."
Chibbers do like casting humanity as the true monsters so makes some sense.
@@DaDunge _Orphan 55 flashbacks_
@@interestingemail561 I was more thinking about the hungry earth and cold blood.
@@DaDunge It was also a thing in Arachnids in the UK. And Praxeus. Chibnall does it a lot.
I still say Quantum Leap did these better. Not the greatest, but just better.
A lot of the things you say in these videos are criticisms I've cultivated about Chibnall, and it's great to see someone analyse the episodes and give a completely justified criticism other than 'it's bad'. Keep it up dude, these are so much fun to watch.
The worst part about that Asteroid comment is that it falls completely flat when you find out that their are asteroids named after James Bond and Sheldon Cooper. Doesn't make it feel that special anymore does it.
In Vincent and the Doctor, we learned about an interesting historical figure and alongside the other characters we grew to love him as a person. The Doctor/Amy's role served to show how kindness and friendship could make a real difference in someone's life, how it's important to help people where you can and to travel alongside them and feel their pain with them - but also, ultimately, the lack of power we all have over the lives and actions of others. Their visit and their actions were important to him, it was right that they did their best for him, but ultimately it didn't change the course of his life or fix his problems. The episode is a bittersweet examination of friendship and genius and mental illness, and it's beautiful - it shows how the Doctor can get up close with history and help us understand it better without ever diminishing the experiences of historical figures.
In Rosa, Rosa Parks is a faint caricature. It's not an acting problem but a writing one - the episode is most interested in the Doctor and companions, and is using Rosa's story in a clumsy attempt to explore who they are, what's important to their characters etc. Perhaps the problem is that the episode happens too early in their story - the show is working so hard to make us understand and love them that it's willing to use a figure from recent history as a tool to that purpose. The episode isn't about Rosa. It's a bit about racism and a lot about the doctor and companions. So you come out of it feeling like Rosa's been cheated, because you know nothing about her personality or her feelings. And having the Doctor and companions contrive the bus scene takes away from the impact of Rosa's actions, her courage and determination, because it places these fictional characters as the driving force of her story.
This seems like a good opportunity to mention Timeless, a TV show that's basically the good version of this episode. While it never specifically touches on the civil rights movement, it covers a broad range of historical moments and actually commits to the notion of changing the future in a way that makes sense.
And even includes Tesla's actor.
@@genevievemccluer7503 An excellent time travel show. It was cancelled after the first season, brought back, let go again and then brought back to give it a proper sendoff. Rarely does that happen on TV!
@@jvblhc I watched it just after it had all ended and was very pleasantly surprised, the advertising had not done it any favors.
Ok! Love time travel shows & missed this, thx!
Every time I see that TARDIS interior it irritates me.
It's basically just a bunch of blocks with a block in the middle.
Yeah, I also hate that interior.
“should have played Strange Fruit” made me insert the song in my head and it would have been soul crushing. sadly beautiful.
I don't think a song about lynchings would have made for an uplifting ending.
@@ThreadBomb poignant. not uplifting. thats the point.
@@ThreadBomb It wouldn't have been appropriate either. The statistical evidence is that this became an almost unknown occurrence after the mid 1930s.
They should have kept the Doctor Who theme. The show is "Doctor Who". The music at the end, while nice, was not necessary.
@@nickbrough8335 There were no lynchings after the mid 1930?! Im severely confused by what youre saying. lunchings continued to be common enough well into the 1970s and even happen today. while obviously at an incomparable rate.
"Thank you, Martin Luther King" might be one of the worst lines in all of Doctor Who
Yeah doesn't age well with the FBI dossier on him.
On first broadcast, the best thing I could think of to say was "At least they didn't have the Doctor be the one inspire Rosa Parks to stay in her seat."
So, yeah. It could have been mishandled worse.
When I was watching Rosa, I thought the twist was that Cresco wins, he stops Rosa taking a stand and fucks off back to his time all smug, only for the Doctor to realize that she just stands up for herself the very next day, that no matter the situation, someone or something was going to say 'no more'. They say their goodbyes, she time locks the time period so it cant be messed with.
I believe the core problem with this episode is that it is an attempt to recontextualize history. By putting a hyper focus on an event that is very well known (at least in America). The civil rights movement is a mosaic of protests, acts of solidarity and community outreach. It is incredibly hard to distill it into one defining moment. The drama of the time period and the drama of the conflict need to rhyme with one another if the goal is to create a better understanding. For example, forget the bad guy from the future and have the Tardis team follow Rosa throughout her day. That way the audience can learn with them and that way we can all understand how natural her choice was. We can also get a better image of what discrimination looked like. Sometimes the more straightforward plot is the best. It also avoids the heavy handed idea that Rosa Parks was the difference between equality and the continued marginalization of people.
I can't help thinking that the episode would have made slightly more sense if instead of a time travelling racist guy the villain was the Meddling Monk
Same as adding the catkind in the Tsuranga conundrum, but he decided not to because "only new content"
19:08 This reminds me of the Sarah Jane story Lost in Time where they all look up the person they had met in the past. A nice moment for them but in Rosa it is just another of 13s wikipedia monologues.
*slams table* THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly, the doctor being passive while people are suffering in front of her, is honestly one of the worst takes a writer can have on the character. Also, great points about it being a touchy subject and being handled disrespectfully.
The main issues I have with these series is that the villains hardly ever felt threatening or was overly politically in its messaging, like this episode for example the bad guy couldn’t even harm people, only displace through time which kinda happens to the doctor fairly regularly and could bring people back to where they were taken from easily
"America isn't the ONLY country in the world"
It's NOT EVEN an American TV show, it's filmed in flipping WALES! Doctor Who has no imperative to be U.S.-centric but decides to be anyway!!
It's called playing it safe. Everyone can say "muh US bad" but imagine if they'd instead done a story on Windrush instead or on segregation in the colonies.
Crasco’s motivations also don’t make sense for one reason;
the Montgomery bus boycott was a planned event, Rosa Parks wasn’t a woman who changed the world by chance, she was a powerful woman who wore a gun on her leg, and was an established activist.
It was a well orchestrated plan by the SCLC/NAACP, if it didn’t happen one day, they would’ve just done it the next, Rosa’s refusal to move didn’t change anything, it was the boycott that followed.
To suggest Rosa not being able to refuse was the spark of the civil rights movement, completely undermines the entire struggle for Civl Rights.
Agree with everything you said. Rosa Parks feels more like a magical McGuffin that needed to be guarded and shepherded by the Doctor and her 'Fam' into Doing The Right Thing, rather than a real person from history who acted with her own agency alongside many, many others of her time. And Chibnall really does seem to think that the Who audience are imbeciles, who need every theme, plot point and character development spelled out to them in ponderous exposition-dumpy monologues or they won't 'get it.' LET YOUR AUDIENCE THINK, CHIBNALL!
Rosa was very poorly executed throughout. That’s when I truly realised Chibnall was a bad choice as showrunner
Parks being portrayed as a woman who changed history by being too tired to move on a specific bus is insulting and kind of hilarious when you think about it. Inclusivity in name only, God bless you Chibnall
Krasko is such a ridiculous idea for a villain.
he is redicous but he is not the worst at least he is a functional villain
Are you kidding me? It was one of the funniest episodes I've seen in a long time: the amdram, low budget kids tv look; the idea that the assistants were so excited to meet MLK despite being written as knowing literally nothing about him and treating him like a cartoon jesus - and the pop song at the end had me genuinely belly laughing.
I truly loved it, but I guess not for the reasons it was made for.
Oh so it's like with Archanoids in the UK for me :D
@@ladrok97 I have heard that it's pretty bad/funny/funnybad, but I genuinely laughed so hard at the end of the Rosa Parks episode that I didn't watch the next one in case it didn't top it - is it funny enough to make it worth watching? I'm sure the Trump analogy is hilarious, but as far as I'm aware that character wasn't *explicitly* Trump, unlike Rosa which literally features MLK and Rosa Parks as characters.
@@iamjurell For me it was. Try to be on "fake Trump" side and it will be even better. Of course on the premise you didin't watch Jackwolf video about this episode. Surprise is very important part in enjoying it as funny. (I guess. I haven't rewatched it, so I can't be sure)
All this episode felt like was "Ohhh look its Rosa Parks everyone. Its Rosa Parks. Look everyone its an episode with Rosa Parks"
If I hear "artron energy" in a Doctor Who episode one more time I'm going to scream
For me the episode plot was the biggest problem: the idea that the main villain is from a later time than Captain Jack, with all his attitudes, just doesn't seem believable, especially as there is no world-building, either in the episode or later, about how Jack's society could turn into Krasko's.
This episode epitomises everything I feel about Chibnall; fantastic premise, let down by execution
"I have a really good idea! I should give it to a writer who knows what they are doing and can tidy up enormous plot holes and fix stilted dialog!! --- Nah! I'll do it myself!"
I do remember when this episode came out, there was a campaign against this episode to give it one star to drag down its rating for the story it was trying to tell. So a second one existed to give it ten stars to try and balance it out. I say campaign it was a bunch of angry tweets.
The breakdown of these episodes gives me such bad second hand embarrassment on behalf of the show.
in hindsight, when I was thinking about rosa, I don't like how everyone seemed to talk to Ryan about the problems of Racism. Like I feel Ryan should have talked more about the importance of the civil rights movement.
It feels like “right, we want an episode around Rosa Parks, now we have one day to figure out why and how.”
I can only assume that Crasco had simply stunning Google-Fu.
Yes racism is handled badly in Rosa. What's scary about racism - and any kind of hate - is that even the nicest of people can believe it's the right thing. Racism was far far better handled in the Seventh Doctor story Remembrance of the Daleks
100% but that story was more than a current year virtue signal.
I promised myself I'd give the new Chibnall/Whitaker era of Doctor Who a fair chance but after this load of tosh I was wavering, and that's after being a lifelong fan. And it just didn't get any better.
The virgin Rosa vs the chad Rose
You mean chav Rose right?
Already know it's gonna be another great video.
There is a concept in this episode that was intriguing and very Doctor Who: namely a villain who wants to change history, but the bigger his actions, the more noticed he becomes and so the more his plan is likely to be thwarted by the Doctor. There could even be a season in the idea. Someone has a vested interest in knocking history off course but finding those unsung pivotal moments to nudge before the "main event", each being different episodes.
He can try and change the route that Archduke Ferdinand's driver took in Sarajevo, or whisper in Isaac Newton's ear about infrared that he so almost discovered, or find the key to the locker that contained the binoculars for the Titanic watchman, or get Hitler into art school. Whittaker's Doctor could have had an incredible character arc because of it, forcing her to go from hero to maintaining history and following a sort of prime directive, and struggling with the consequences that her carefree heroic predecessors mainly experienced (Pompei et al aside). Her whole dilemma could be: do I save history, or do I save people?
You would think the TARDIS would have chairs
Alternative title: space racist tries to stop rosa parks from sitting
This would've been so much better if they failed to get rosa on the bus but she still stood up for herself later after they thought that they had failed
Rosa would have been a prime opportunity for the Meddling Monk to comeback
Why is Ryan allowed to shoot Krasco yet Robertson isnt allowed to kill the spider and Graham not allowed to kill Tim Shaw?
Sending Krasco to the dinosaur age is a death sentence.
Because Thirteen is morally bankrupt and has no principles.
The tokenism of Rosa and MLK reminds me of the tokenism of the Ruth Doctor and the Timeless Children.
Hmm I don't know that the Ruth Doctor or The Timeless Children are tokenizing tbh.
I thought Doctor Ruth worked well as a character in her whole right. Why is that tokenism?
The Ruth doctor sucks
@@lexezlao She's not the best but she still felt more like The Doctor in five minutes than Thirteen has over two series.
@@Deathlygunn I still don't like her, but I get where your coming from, even though her performance is messy her lines and personality are very doctor-like
when the rise up song played i legitimately thought i was watching a shit post. like the wrong episode or something was uploaded to xfinity stream.
Just noticed, love the new thumbnail for this and the ghost monument and woman who fell to Earth videos, although I kinda miss bald Chibbs
Thanks man! It was sad to see him go
THANK YOU for mentioning the truth behind the standard Rosa Parks story. It's actually sad...this episode was such a good opportunity to teach the public the reality, as well as a nice message about how it took many individuals. It just hurts to hear people give her all the credit, believing what this episode told them. I mean, did they do ANY research??
Also... Was it too much to ask to have at least one sympathetic white character that wasn't the main cast? You know... ONE that wasn't a total cardboard cut-out racist?
I know it wasn't much, but Rosa Parks' (white) husband was in the scene with Ryan and MLK.
There was absolutely no balance from the white townsfolk to reflect the reality of this town. The reality that the boycott and protest were allowed to go ahead due to the (white) mayor and (white) town council granting permission, not to mention the dozens and dozens of white people that stood shoulder to shoulder with the black folk of that town (as evident in many photographs of that protest).
A perfect opportunity would have been the younger couple in the saloon bar sat at the table, uncomfortable with the way Ryan or Yaz were being treated and about to make a stand and say something, only for the barman to give them a stern look and a shake of the head and for them to become shrinking violets again, no dialogue, just suggestive actions.
@@mekonta precisely this! It’s basically telling a bunch of modern white kids that white people are just terrible people. It would have been nice to see some white people standing side by side with black people in this god-awful trash, woke nonsense. I hated how cosplay Doctor was the white female saviour that made it all happen. It’s just so disrespectful.
@@ftumschk yup - I guess I blinked for that second.
@@Problembeing Quite so. It was indeed a case of "blink and you'll miss it", however this was an episode of Doctor Who, not a historical documentary, and it strikes me that some people have lost sight of that. Drama, of necessity, exaggerates and stereotypes in order to get its message across, and there's only so much you can do in 50 minutes of television.
By way of illustration, and in the interest of balance, I can't recall people complaining that everybody in that French village seemed to think that Vincent Van Gogh was a mad, drunken twat. Surely there must have been _some_ sympathetic people that they could have shown...
I hated the ending, they played the most overplayed song of recent years at the end. We have all heard Rise Up by Andra Day a thousand times on X Factor, The Voice, Strictly etc. It just makes Doctor Who seem like some cheap soap.
I actually dropped my volume, it caught me so off guard. I couldn't bare it. Who, who signed off on this??
@@sorryifoldcomment8596 Ikr it was so cringeworthy. Every bloody reality TV show act uses that song as their go-to these days, whether for self-indulgent singing performances or corny dance routines. The writing is shambolic but the music was a new low. Good old Murray Gold would never have allowed it.
I’ve been looking forward to this video for I don’t know how long and it hasn’t disappointed
After Ryan gets punched the doctors reaction does not feel like how the doctor would actually react to the situation
Rosa’s arrest is my favourite scene from Jodie Whittaker’s era so far. It’s a bit of a letdown that 13’s best moment is a scene where she does absolutely nothing.
All I can say is wow this series makes me love the previous doctors and all the people involved so much more
Ikr, seeing how awful this is made me pay more attention to the finer details in better seasons and deeply appreciate all the beautiful work and effort they put into it
I am loving these reviews. You're articulating a lot of the problems I've had with the Chibnall era. I'm looking back for now so I can put this era in context. I'm geninuly excited for what happens next for the show.
Great work, keep being brilliant.
You've summarised it so well, incredible work again jack 😍
Rosa is a strong outing for the 13th Doctor, however it would have functioned better if Kraskos target was the Bus driver with Graham having to step in, all the elements seem to be there for dramatic character moments with Ryan convincing Graham into doing the 'right thing' and Graham going a long with it to aid their relationship and Doctor having to convince Graham not change history.
This is an interesting problem in this era that I don't think any other era has, it's the misunderstanding of historical figures boiling them down to dreamy idols or cartoonishly evil villains, this is the case with their Nicolas Tesla and Thomas Edison episode. With Nicolas Telsa being a starry-eyed idealist dreamer unappreciated by history and Thomas Edison being lazy theft obsessed with money, both being a massive disservice to both men and other inventors during that time, same with Rosa, it wasn't just a one-day accident it was actually planned.
Capaldi's Doctor punched a racist for disrespecting his friend. This Doctor did NOTHING, I was done with Jodie at this point. Not my Doctor. Also the villain being a space racist was completely unbelievable and dumb. (And I'm saying this about an unbelievable and sometimes dumb show, that I used to like.)
I don't understand why they would stick to the commonly known but misinterpreted view of the Civil Rights movement being primarily through the actions of a few individuals?
They could have put more emphasis on how it was grassroots women's organisations which effectively started the Montgomery Boycott, which would help dispell the narrative of the entire boycott being down to Rosa Parks, and would created wider knowledge of the actual role of women in the Civil Rights movement which is often looked over.
Also, why the fuck was MLK in the episode? He wasn't even involved in the Civil Rights Movement at this time, hell he wasn't even enthusiastic about leading the boycott and was only chosen because it was believed he could "bounce back" from it being a young minister!
Chibnall was like “oi, let’s give the doctor free (3) companions, with nought a personality between the lot of ‘em, and their only traits are standing around and asking questions about what’s going on around them”
I haven't even watched Who since Smith left.
Yet I have watched like a dozen hours of people complaining about Chibnall's Who and I can't get enough of it.
Would love to suggest you watch Capaldi's run. Granted the stories might be meh at times but Capaldi is really great as a Doctor. ^^,
@@khairulsyamil463 Capaldi is like Colin Baker, Great doctor, bad stories with some notable outliers
Dang- I never noticed any of that stuff at the diner- then again- I guess that's the point
I had a whole essay typed out about how much I distaste this episode because of how it's the ultimate example of how simple minded and unimaginative the writers have become, but honestly this episode doesn't deserve anymore of anyone's attention. It's a boring, horrifically historically inaccurate, blatantly politically motivated and, worst of all, it's one dimensional. This isn't art, there's nothing up to interpretation here, they had a "message", a "statement" to make and they made it (poorly). Simply feels like a bunch of out of touch white dudes trying to look cool to minorities and Twitter, like most mainstream shit these days.
Good review. I hated Krasko's motivation in this episode. A really bold choice would have made him not a racist, but a man who was trying to change an event in his own family's history that led to his current bad situation. So the fact that it was Rosa Parks didn't really matter to him, it was just something he had to change, because that change would have rippled across time to make his situation in the future better. It's completely unrealistic to me that there would still be any kind of racism against other humans in the 80th century when humanity has gone into space and met other beings.
Love your reviews
I want to see the episode where the doctor is forced to stamp “rejected” on little Addy’s application to art school
I think plot wise id get rif of the space raacist and just focus on the character of Rosa with her interactions with folks in Montgomery adding a random villain take away from the real historical event
Krasko the villian in this episode is like a BTEC Jack Harkness and is Jack Harknesses evil counterpart , BTEC for those who don't know means basically a knockoff or ripoff version of something else
BTECs are vocational qualifications certified by the UK's Business and Technology Education Council, and I wouldn't say they're a ripoff/knockoff. Perhaps "Bargain Basement Jack Harkness" or "Pound Store Jack Harkness" would be more apt.
It's funny how when ryan and jazz talk, it feels like a producer and a reality show contestant in the confessionary: "so, tell me how you feel about this looking straight into the camera"
Rewatched the video already and noted that you said the episode was pessimistic about our future, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it, like the rest of the era, is handled in such a poor manner. When you get stories like Frontios and The Caves of Androzani showcasing a very bleak and nihilistic outlook on humanities future yet are two brilliant stories.
Absolutely. In those cases it feels like an intentional part of the story, and we actually spend time developing and occupying that world. In Rosa's case, it's an accidental implication from an episode that is otherwise focused on our past and present. Whilst most of the episode tries to be hopeful, the mere existence of Krasko spits in the face of that.
I did not get taught about Rosa Parks in school and we briefly learned about MLK in Year 6. Just his speech and that's it. Everything else we learned was through the Internet.
It is really strange to me to hear a foreigner say that he learned about American history. In the United States I didn't learn anything about any other country other than the name of the capitols.
We did a lot of American history interestingly enough, as well as other countries.
15:42 this explains why I never like any historical figures in Chibnall's era. Like Rosa Parks and Ada Lovelace, it feels like the equivalent of The Doctor name-dropping famous people they met just to boast. By the time I write this, the next new episode will feature Mary Seacole, goddamnit I hope it's gonna be proper.
I hadn't been concerned about infinite regenerations so much as the Master's ability to singlehandedly destroy the Citadel and defeat the rest of the Time Lords seemingly without raising a sweat, when the combined might of all the Daleks couldn't do it. Why is nobody outraged about *that*?
Honestly I'd love to see you do more episode breakdowns like this. Doesn't even have to be Chibnall-era, but you have a really good eye for the technical details compared to the agenda-driven material from some of the fandom. Even pick episodes you really like so you can enjoy it more lol
Every point I wanted to make a comment on you covered just as I was typing it. I really should stop commenting during the video :P You have got this absolutely tied down!
Keep those Season 11 & 12 reviews coming! They are quite good! And if you one day have done all episodes put them together in one big video - that might top or at least rival the video from Jay - at least it will be a welcome addendum to Jays epic! :-)
Just when I thought there wasn't going to be a part 4. Here it is.