G&L MFD VS P90 What's The Difference
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2020
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I have two ASAT Specials and they are great guitars. The deal with the MFD pickups is that they have stronger ceramic magnets with fewer windings. This produces a "tighter' magnetic field, resulting in more output with less noise and greater frequency range. Music Store Live has several videos with Paul Gagon from G&L where he talks about these pickups and Just Nick Music also has videos on the ASAT Special where he demos the guitar and talks in detail about the construction of the pickup.
...now therre is a description that has some meaning.
Just be aware when shopping that there are 3 different MFD pickups - the ‘standard’ one on the ASAT Classic (and others), the Jumbo one found on the ASAT Special that Dylan played, and the new ones on the Doheny which look like the Jumbo but aren’t. G&L says they sound different - they are not the same pickup in a different body.
There are actually 4 types. The type on the S500 is different from the ASAT classic.
@@soc2902 There are also various humbucker MFDs, even a slanted humbucker that was in the Cavalier model.
just subscribed recently, but i’ve watched a lot of your videos over the past year. Great content, and i always look forward to your videos!
The one neat aspect of the MFD that you didn't touch on is the fact that each pole is adjustable. This increases the tone possibility of the pickup. Thanks for sharing. Stay safe and be blessed
Charles Wallace I was surprised he didn’t get to this. darrell Braun did go over that though.
Hey Dylan! I love the way you present subjects. Your no BS approach is refreshing because if you know the answer you tell us and if your not sure you don’t. Thank you to share your vast knowledge.
But, about the tap test you’re wrong. It worth it. Let me show you.
I’d like you to tap test the exhaust pipe of your RV and the pipe of a neighbour’s RV of same model but different colour to compare mileage per gallons consomption. You’ll engage conversation with the owner, talk about RV, have a beer and make a friend. Totally worth it.😜
Very informative as always. Your time at Texas Toast was a ball to view and very enjoyable.
Shooting from the hip is always admirable and I for one encourage it. Condescension without insight however is not and inevitably leads to the seeker losing their interest and being afraid to ask questions in the future for fear of being pilloried. It also is the foundation for cliques.
I was wondering when you were going to get around to MFD pickups, thank you. I just recently bought an ASAT Special with the jumbo MFDs and I am really impressed with how many sounds just the volume and tone controls can bring out from them.
Jumbo's are the shiznit
Man... I'm gonna bug ya. I might have written on a previous video but thus 6 one is fresh, so....
A have a guitar with pickups SSH and the bridge pickup is ok, but the neck and middle have an extremely low volume on the lower strings. I've tried to adjust the pickups to get the high E down and I've tried to rise the lower E, but the string distance did not give me any good result.
Any clue to what it may be?
Greetings from Brazil
I would totally sign up for a pickup winding class. Great meeting you!
Curious as to the tonal differences of the various MFD models. For instance: I recently purchased a G&L Doheny with Jazzmaster-sized MFD pickups and I'd like to learn a little bit more about their uniquesnesses.
Thank you! Just got one used, and I was drawn by those pick ups!
Thanks for taking the time to break down the differences between these pickups! Ever since I saw the Anderton’s blindfold test of different single coils and Chappers totally gushed over the ASAT Special he demoed with these pickups, I was wondering what set these a part from P90s.
P90s tend to be mid-focused / MFDs hot and naturally scooped (as they were developed for then-modern music in Leo Fenders lab at the start of the 1980s).
Dylan, I thought the Les Ply was the best sounding guitar at the Texas Toast shindig. I also liked the sound of the guitar with the single pickup. Sounds like the event was a success!
It was great having you at the shop and hangin at Texas Toast. Maybe we can catch up on the road somewhere.
Thanks for playing both so we can actually HEAR the difference.
I'm definitely building a tele with a set of your P90'S Dylan!
You did it!!!! Thanks for this man!!!
The week with Texas Toast was awesome, I'm now a big fan of those guys, they are GREAT!
Just regular guys who know their stuff, no bull, and SO funny!
Love this video on the MFD pickups, since I'm in a guitar-buying' mood (when am I not) and the local music store is closed for Covid. And now my other question: how do Blacktop Filtertrons compare to the original Filtertrons now on their higher end guitars?
I enjoyed the videos with Texas Toast so much I subscribed to his channel. You guys are a lot a like. Can’t wait to see you guys team up again.
Dylan, I was watching Gibson TV's latest video about pickups. It that video the person talking proclaims that "chrome" pickup covers sound different than "Nickel" pickup covers? I am nuts in thinking that is hearing what you want to hear? I mean... a chrome pickup is a nickel pickup with a small plating of chrome over it. Most times the chrome is a few atoms thick. In your experience, is there an audible difference?
Very informative. Thank you.
I agree with your tap test synopsis, I've found ONE use for tapping. I bought some choice (what millwork company called) "red mahogony", that was 30 years ago, still don't know what wood it was. I bought enough for 2 bodies. I built the guitar, it sounded dead with zero sustain. I thought I'd done something wrong, started over except this time cut neck pocket installed a different neck, installed a bridge and put in strings. Dead sounding. I went back to the millwork company with both pieces. My bro in law said "watch this" and tapped on the body with his knuckle. Sounded "rattle'y, then he selected another piece and tapped it, it had a "ring" to it. The piece I'd bought had gotten too dry, snd had tiny cracks running thru it. I was given a new block of wood. Now, tapping the wood is something I'll do before buying, if it's a local seller.
HellO Dylan,
great video again on this pickups ** *
Thank uuu ** Wil :)
The MFD pickup peek under the hood looks like a Jazzmaster bobbin (wide area and short height). Low windings with a stronger magnet gives higher signal and lower noise. The Tele-style steel base plate not only increases the magnetic flux by reflecting it back at the strings, but adds some noise shielding as well. Culmination of what Leo learned over all those years of making pickups. If you check out some of the more recent Squier Strat Indonesian guitars you will find they are lower kohms wound with stronger ceramic magnets too -- for less noise with the same signal output as before.
Tapping a thing to gauge its resonance is only useful for determining which watermelon one should buy from the bin at the supermarket. lol
Dylan, you referred to the baseplate on the MFD as being made from steel. The plate, both on the flat and edge-on, looked like it was made of copper.
Is the material copper-coated steel? I’m guessing any plating is to inhibit corrosion of the steel. If so, why copper plating as opposed to let’s say zinc?
I think you said that cheap ceramic pickups have cheap magnets and lots of winds, and so sound muddy. These appear to be the opposite - strong magnets (plus the magnetic base plate) with fewer winds. I think that's a great idea.
Im a huge die hard G&L fan. What size pots are pushing the jumbo MFD's???
My next guitar is definitely a Asat Special!....👋
How do you measure inductance with a multimeter?
I've been wondering forever what the difference between the jumbo MFD and P90. I would love to see a deeper dive into G&L MFDs with a comparison between their Tele-style and an actual Tele bridge pickup and a comparison between their Jazzmaster style MFDs and an actual Jazzmaster pickup. Thanks!
Agreed! We need more info and comparisons on these MFD pickups Dylan! 😁 👍 🎸
The Doheny pickups are a bit brighter than the S-500 MFD pups. I’ll be curious how they compare to the ASAT Specials.
Nice breakdown. I have a Peavey Reactor, a 2006 60th Anniversary Strat with the '57/'62 w/ the middle pup RWRP, and my prized possesion, a 1986 3T Sunburst ASAT;
What would be the best way to determine pickup output??
Dylan. I enjoy your information. Seem like a cool dude. Im probably going to buy some pickups from you in the future. Greetings from Oklahoma. 👋
Great sounding pickups. Do they make them in a humbucker fit configuration as they do P90s?
Yup. And the company was originally inspired to do so by the Band of Susans guitarist back in the 80s modding his early G&L offset to just have two stacked right against each other.
New subscriber here... Interested to know if you’ve reviewed or explained about the G&L Z-coil pickups? Would b great 2 hear ur thoughts on them.
Seems to be adapted to 6-string from P Bass, then MFD pickup design principles applied for voicing.
wonder if the magnets weaken over the years and would that change your tone ??
It hilarious. People will type up a long email asking for a wiring diagram but they won't type 4 words into Google to find it. Or anything else for that, matter. It's unbelievable how many people would rather ask a question and wait a week for someone else to Google the answer, then give it to them rather than just googling it themselves.
This is absolutely interesting. Now I want a g&l with those haha 😁
tribute series, costs $450 and they are the same pick ups as the US models, and the Indonesian made Tribute plays really well.
What would the tone be like without the copper plating on the steel below the MFD pickup? How crucial is it to be copper plated?
I believe the only difference the copper plating does is making it easier to solder. Also prevents rust.
i was checking out the website last pm, i really dig the greg koch reverend model. looks like a great store
Dangit man. I missed it and I was the first person to ask about the G&L MFD pickups.
Speaking of P90's, I had to direct someone to your 'Humbucker sized P90" vid so they could see why hb sized P90's aren't actually P90's at all. They're a hybrid between a P90 and a humbucker sized bobbin.
I was wondering where you get your manicures done Dylan?
I’ve been there a couple of times. Very nice guys, very small shop
Tried a G&L years ago. Their tele is what Fenders could be if they'd do a little more work. What do you think of the Fender reissue 65 reverb deluxe . I have the real deal and I find they don't compare. The reverb on the reissue is on both channels want it or not. Just something about the tone sounds cheesey.
So resistance has more to do with volume than timbre?
Loved your "Tap Test" comment 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😈
The MFD'S on my g&l S500 are about the same size as a strat pup as opposed to the ASAT (or strat) pups. Do you know what the difference is? Is it just physical dimensions. LOVE MY S500 tribute!
The jumbo Dylan had was Leo Fender's own work. I'm not sure when the "classic" MFDs started showing up, possibly late 80s, but I'd expect the difference from a standard strat pickup would remain, still a thick ceramic magnet over steel plate and less space devoted to wire on the bobbin.
I'm planning on putting a 4 way switch in my ASAT special to put the pickups in series in middle position. I've heard that the tone it produces is insane, but not many people seem to have done such a mod.
Is it fair to say that you're not a fan of the tap test?
Hi Dylan, Is that the Fallout by G&L you're playing?
I have G&L S500 and i'd like to try alnico 8 in one of pu.
so: why do the same pickups sound different in an lp than in a 335?
Different fretboard material, different bridge material or topology, different nut, different strings, are the pups handwound? Because then they aren't ACTUALLY the same. Different neck-joint, different pickup placement, pickup HEIGHT, different pots, different caps, different wire, different wiring setup, different ears on a different day? Is the scale length EXACTLY the same? Your imagination. Are you listening via the same amp in the same room at the same settings through the same pedals and the same speaker at the same temperature and are you in the same MOOD? The list goes on, and on, and on.
Also, a 335 is partly an acoustic instrument. Feedback will make difference long before you know it. In addition to which, have you isolated yourself from the sound of the actual acoustic instrument?
I can keep going, and you could have thought of any of these for yourself.
I just got a set of G&L ASAT Classic pickups from the G&L web store. Very good price, IMHO.
I wonder if that ASAT MFD pickup would sound much different if you swapped out that ceramic magnet and replaced it with an ALNICO 5 magnet?
Leo was working on the design for a while.. that must have been tried. Wonder why he went for ceramic
@@LLSicilia I know that ceramic magnets get a bad rap because they are inexpensive and are found in cheap import pickups but when used in a properly designed pickup they can be just what the pickup designer is looking/hearing for in sound quality that they are aiming for...the Dimarzio DLX for example, also known as the Q 100 in Yamaha guitars is a great sounding pickup and it uses ceramic magnets.
They seem like they would be the mini humbockers that were on firebirds. They seem to twang thick yet yet not too thick
You should do a video on how to make your own wiring diagrams
Nickel plate sure does do something to the tone! Take the same pickup and put a brass plate on it and it makes it smoother and jazzier. Nickel gives it bite and high end clarity. Copper, probably somewhere in between, but the metal base definitely does something to the magnetic field.
It’s copper plated steel
We like to say that people confuse tapping on solid body guitar woods with voicing a soundboard... totally different animal
Great stuff, I’ve just become a huge fan of Leo’s MFD PU’s nothing like them.
Long live Fender
As always this was interesting.
what a coincidence i'm seeingthis video today! flipside just moved to a new location lol
To me the MFD jumbo is basically somewhere between a Jazz Master and a P90 has a similar EQ curve to a JM pick up, but the high out put like a P90. I know construction wise , its different to a P90, and sound wise I would say brighter and glassier
Thanks Dylan...I was one of the guys that messaged you to do a video on this....excellent!
It's like a Jazzmaster pickup and a P90 had a baby 🤘
Like a jazzmaster and a tele pickup had a baby?
that bridge pickup is like the epitome of Quack !!!
Great sounding ceramic magnet pups that no one is calling "cheap". Just goes to show that we guitarists are often guilty of having herd mentality about certain aspects of guitars.
The MFD's sound a bit dark. Can you get more treble on them?
May just be the room sound. One of the complaints Fender players seem to go to when first playing MFDs is that they're so much brighter than typical S or T style single coils. Got to back off that tone knob.
Yes, you can. The s-500 allows you to combine neck and bridge pickups or all three and with this, you can get really really nice tele and strat sounds. You can also adjust the bass and treble passive control the s-500 has. It's a great guitar.
P45?
Do they sell cool stuff ?
All I know is that my Jumbo MFDs handle gain extremely well. I mean, it's like they just want to be overdriven. I don't play metal, but you can probably go there with these pups no problem. I like more bluesy tones with just touch of dirt and grit. I can tell you that they can handle pretty much whatever I throw at them. What's really impressive is how well they stay together on the low end frequencies. Very stable. Love this guitar and these MFDs!
Tele-wiring, there are tons Tele-wiring diagrams on the internet.
My Harley Benton TE-20 is wired with an Oak Grigsby 4-way-switch, a wiring that has serial in position 4 and I personally added a push/pull for phase inversion of neck-pu. You have to tear apart the pu-cover from the black, the mass wire and give the pu-cover a seperate mass wire to solder to the pot, so you can solder black and white cable to the p/p to invert the phase. Now you have a Tele with 6 great sounds, especially in series and out ouf phase has a killer tone!
I'm not even mediocre in soldering and wiring, but even I was able to wire the TE-20 that way. Of course I swapped out the pus, the TE-20 is cheap and the original pus are simply cheap rubbish. (the neck is amazing for such a low price guitar)
And I don't recommend the cheaper Harley Bentons to Americans, I know they are popular, but you can get as good products for less.
The G&L magnet looks a lot bigger, not just a bit bigger. And ceramic is usually more powerful so I'd guess magnetically it's close or equal to the P90 magnet - except what about the effect of the P90 two mags being forced to face one another.
Next time someone suggests that you do a tap test tell them your not buying melons. As far as the ply Paul I'd bet that it's got better resonance than a Les Paul made of the same wood but glued or laminated together. And it naturally looks better.
MFD seems like a redisgned Jazzmaster pickup with a baseplate.
Please compare this MFD to a Jazz Master pickup. This looks more like an evolution of the JM than "half of a P90 ".
GnL , please offer more finishes .. If there was a black with a rosewood board and white binding.. I'd be onboard but don't care for the available choices.. the surf green is the best but still not really my thing.
very cool
Nice growl and snarl
As best as I can tell I liked them and your didn't sound bad either
Dylan is so high here. We can tell DYLAN.
Well… your assumptions would be wrong…
I agree that tapping wood for electric guitars is dumb, but tapping a plywood body and a solid wood body would not sound the same, hence the reason people think it matters.
Algo help. They sound good
4:38 -MDF?! 🤣
(we know what ya mean!)
MDF pickups are the perfect match for a plywood Les Paul. You know how important tonewood is for tone, so if you want more tone, obviously you want to use more wood. Some people like the OSB pups better. I guess that's a matter of taste, but for me, it's MDF all the way.
I missed it! I was there Weds. soooo many pedals!!!!
Looks a lot like a Jazzmaster pickup to me
Please measure the power output of each under identical input refrence load...and do a frequency response curve for each.
Says a lot.
Actual data.
Why? So you can tell me I did it wrong ?
@@DylanTalksTonethat’s how you handle that.
Did you figure out the inductance and does the copper plate on the steel make a difference? Why would they put the copper over the steel. You being a pickup man, I would think you could figure this out, Ha! Or, did Leo create something people can't figure out,Ha!
All these various tonewood tricks like tapping, etc do have merit. But they most definitely do not define absolutes. The importance is one of self relevance. That's it. What I consider to be good tone might be crap to someone else. However if I use some arbitrary method of comparing how I observe various materials (be they wood, plastic, metal, moon rock, etc), I will most certainly observe differences depending on density, micro structure, blah blah blah. The laws of physics aren't necessarily changing, but how we observe them is in constant flux.
Tone is a thing that is important to me. I just don't give a rat's ass about another person's list of best tone woods. I define what I like based on my own observations. Plywood, plastic, ceramic, metal. These materials have all been used successfully in building good sounding guitars. Change my mind? ;)
Les Ply rules!!!
Yes! So glad there's so many more people on the Les Ply train. A few of us had been prodding Matt & Chris to finish that thing for quite a while. 😎👍
I tried out an Epiphone Wilshire in a guitar store once. It was all mahogany with a mahogany set neck and P-90 pickups, basically a Les Paul Special. When playing it unplugged I noticed it had a very weird doink kind of sound. I rapped my knuckles against the body and yes it made a weird doink sound. I plugged it in and I could still hear that weird tone. Don't tell me that wood doesn't affect tone. It may be subtle but it does make a difference. I didn't buy it because that tone bugged the crap out of me.
(edit) It was very light weight mahogany and I wanted it so bad 🙁
👍 from one "why not" guy to another
Very intersting Dyl, it would be interesting to rebuild those G&L pick ups with some alnico magnets of various grades!
Oh and STOP chewing your finger nails dude! It looks TERRIBLE!
Oh and rock on! \m/
The MFD looks like it would compare better with a Jazzmaster pickup. Where is the Resonant and is it a peak or just a top.
Diagrams. Lol.
That Les Paul would be so much cooler as a thru body access but none of that matters
Zoot Suit Gibson did them and the Neck I think I've seen lots of Martin guitars with a Plywood neck also sitka spruce sound board seems the only time tone wood makes a statement. (Even then.. My Jasmine by Takamine is all laminate and sounds fine) I love the directional orientation this guy used. Now.. If you wanted to ruin somebody life an OSB top pancaked Ranger board.
Laminated is stronger than one piece.
Favourite guitar build I've seen in years
15:20
steel or copper? looks like copper plate
steel
Wow. I am a recent subscriber, and one of the things I like about you is that you deal with questions by giving answers that contain technical data and basic science to back up what you say... until that guy asked about what apparently is called a "tap test". Not only did you not answer the question by explaining why no one does it, you were really rude as you slapped the question down. Glad you reward people's curiosity with such specific, detailed, information, rather than just calling their question dumb repeatedly. I was actually interested to hear your answer, and more than a bit surprised at you reaction. There is no reason a person without experience in these things wouldn't wonder about that, nor is there any way they should intuitively know why the raw piece of wood and the final product are not the same thing in context. I certainly won't be asking you any questions any time soon. I'd hate to find out I was dumb for asking. Disappointing.
Kirk Wilson thanks so much for watching all the way to the end.
I lol so hard !
Again the les ply has gotta be stable A.F.! Built with engineered materials there is no issues with flex and whatever.
The MFD reminds me so much of a JazzMaster Pickup
They do a Jazzmaster style MFD, and it's even brighter! The Doheny guitar.
So the difference is - "it's cool" ......?
base plate is copper/
No sir... copper plated steel. Copper would not have the desired effect