Sonitus Acoustic Treatment of AH Smarthome Theater Room
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2022
- Building a SOTA theater room @Audioholics Smarthome has been a challenging but rewarding process. The fidelity of this room is absolutely critical in getting it to sound right as it's our test bed for new surround formats, high resolution music content and accurately reviewing audio gear. The acoustics is the most often overlooked and most critical component in building a great sounding room. I elected the help of Anthony Grimani of Sonitus Acoustics to help design a room treatment plan to achieve fidelity excellence for music and movies.
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Mark Levinson 5909: bit.ly/MarkLevinson5909
Sony WF-1000XM3: bit.ly/SonyIEMs
Recommended Subwoofers:
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SVS PB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io/3sreeyk
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Denon AVR-X3700H 9.2CH AV Receiver: audioadvice.io/33XJ2gH
Yamaha RX-A2A: audioadvice.io/3ppWFg9
Denon AVR-X6700H 11.2CH AV Receiver: audioadvice.io/3HsdEou
Anthem MRX1140: bit.ly/MRX1140
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SVS Prime 5.1 Speaker / Sub System: audioadvice.io/3JZJOt5
Polk R700 Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io/3C0TK2B
Heco Aurora 700: bit.ly/HecoAurora700spks
Heco Aurora 1000 Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Aurora1000
Klipsch RP-8000F Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io/3445l4A
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#acoustics #hometheater #audiophile - Наука та технологія
Beautiful theater room and treatment design. Congratulations.
Wow that is some acoustic treatment !!!
Great info here Gene!
This was really helpful as I am about to treat my little listening room with Sonitus products. I started with a couple of bass traps and now I got a much better idea on how to proceed with a combination of diffusers and absorbers.
Room‘s a bit difficult acoustics-wise cause it’s a rectangular shape and pretty small. The speakers I have tend to work on the more active end of sound as in much bass. So the first step was to control that. I hate That booming sound. Your vid gave me excellent hints.
So important, this video is so well done with graphics and Gene speaking so clearly. Van Halen shirt 👕 is a great touch. I dream of doing something like this someday obviously not the same budget but when speaking on room acoustics I know I can do that with my budget.
They make a huge difference
LOVE the Van Halen shirt! 🔥👍
i highly recommend using Anthony Grimani, he consulted for me on my listening/home theater room. I also purchased Sonitus as well as installed the recommended Hunter douglas acoustic blinds and the results were significant. I did make one mistake by buying the black big diffusers and used a latex interior house paint. The issue was it needed one coat of white latex to cover the black and two coats of my selected color. The time and amount of paint needed to cover these are crazy, i think it was a gallon and a half of white and two gallons of color for 4 panels! The other unintended result was the weight of the panels was too heavy for the magnetic connectors to hold. So long story short buy white if you intend to paint them and find a spray color you can live with in a non foam eating formula!
As you mentioned future upgrades, my thinking here would be to bring the screen forward and go motorized so that the screen lines up with the front baffle of the floorstanders for a nice symmetrical look. More visual immersion as well as your screen will be closer to your seating.
I don't like that idea as it will create acoustical problems and make the screen way too big for the viewing distance. I like the look of the speakers out in the room.
A totally dead roo. Can only work in multichannel, not 2ch, or binaural.
@@Audioholics That is so weird. The image is way too big? Huh, that’s what hidef is all about, get the viewable image large enough to be immersive.
@@Audioholics The screen would be up for 2 ch. Guessing you discussed this with Grimani during planning.
@@declanfarber no anything larger causes motion sickness for my wife regardless of resolution and 150" is about right for me. The acoustical implications and aesthetics of your suggestion are a no go for me as well.
@@Audioholics For a 150” screen and 4k material (or 1080p material properly upscaled to 4k,) the optimal viewing distance would be about 8 feet, before you would start to see pixel artifacts. This turns out to be roughly the same field of view that you would get for a good seat in a commercial theater. So the motion sickness complaint would apply to a theater as well.
BTW the visual elements for Star Wars ep1 (yeah Jar Jar etc) were assembled in 1080p, and massaged upwards for theatrical projection. It looked pretty good there.
The aesthetics are a matter of what your priorities are, and as for acoustics, at least it would get your speakers away from that darned wall, if you moved the screen forward. :^)
This is a no brainer. No thinking needed. Just do it, even if it is a little at a time. Having a balanced room makes everything so much better. It’s like a component upgrade only you benefit your whole sound system by killing the very things that smear and ruin it. It’s not hard. People make things hard.🙄
Great room Gene! three questions for you... 1. What's your favorite movie to watch in that room that maximize all your gear? 2. What is your favorite song to listen to in that room which does the same? 3. Do you know if there is a measurable difference between leather seating vs cloth covered seating... wondering if the cloth would be more absorbent (audio wise) than leather?
would like to see a theater tour with equipment rack
Nice [LP] music at start )
Awesome and educational video!!!
Where did you get the magnet solution?
It comes with Sonitus
Floor to ceiling bookcases and record racks are also an excellent room treatment. But you have to have a large number of books and records. (Guilty as charged.)
FWIW, what you are describing sounds like a fine product. Just pay the guy.
Guilty….
What were you smoking when you put that red trim on the screen :)
Absolutely love it!
Hey if they love it do it!! No different than led lights around the screen!!
Amazing job guys! Definitely looks good!
I learned a lot thank you, but still feel like I don't know where to start with room treatments (not a criticism, just my problem. Specifically what is most important and cost effective to do (low hanging fruit).
Great video gene! Does it make a difference putting the panels on the doors and behind the main speakers?
Doors, not so much, behind the speakers, yes.
Bryan I've got one absorption panel with a front scattering plate on my door. But my room is very small so more speaker reflections in my specific case.
Great video, good information and fantastic room Gene. I know you listen to a lot of 2 channel music, but do you also listen to multichannel music? I have a large collection of multichannel recordings, DTS-HD MSTR, SACD Hybrid, Blu-ray, DVD-Audio, and I also up-mix stereo HR recordings using Auro 3D, and Dolby Surround up-mixer. I'm now in the process of trying to select and upgrade the acoustic treatment for my space. I haven't been able to find much on treatment for primarily multichannel music listening. Any suggestions, references, or videos for a 7.2.4 room? Many thanks for your very informative channel!
Most of the time I upmix 2CH to multichannel and I listen to a lot of spatial audio.
As Gene was demonstrating at the end, don't forget an ultra thick carpet. Thick enough to suffocate someone.
That's a rug, not a carpet lol.
Gene of all of the room treatments, which one made the biggest difference? Also, since you have them up with magnets, can you share some REW measurements of the difference with them on and off the walls?
Wells that would be interesting measurements with all of the acoustic room treatment panels up. And measurements without any of the acoustic room treatment panels.
I would guess there will be a difference in the measurements. Mainly from the stacked corner bass traps. The acoustic ceiling treatments as well would improve the measurements.
And would also be a noticeable audible difference. As the Audioholics home theatre unusually has hard vinyl flooring, plus massive powerful speakers. Ie a combination for lots of floor bounces, floor echoes.
As most dedicated home theatres use carpet as it reduces the floor bounces to a degree. And more importantly stops the floor echoes from being audible. My room was ceramic floor tiles and had horrible audible floor echoes. Disappeared once I fitted a thick underlay and carpet over it.
Nice video, thanks, but the panels are expensive; makes sense to make your own, to save money and hopefully be more bespoke.
I'm not by any means wealthy but still could afford to buy acoustic room treatment panels. Absorption panels you can DIY as long as you have decent woodwork skills.
Diffuser panels require high knowledge of mathematics and high woodwork skills to build them effectively.
Absorption and diffusion panels from GIK Acoustics and several other companies are reasonably priced. Even the Anthony Grimani Sonitus panels in the Audioholics home theatre aren't expensive.
NIce video. thanks. are those drivers going to shine like flashlights? Grills may be needed
The drivers aren't the problem but the gloss finish in the cabinets is.
@@Audioholics I was wondering about that gloss finish and reflections from the light off the screen.
Great rundown on your treatments for your room.
Which Walmart memory foam product did you use behind your screen. Did you ever think of maybe using the Rockwool comfort board product instead, which is what Anthony seemed to have used in a lot of his previous panels?
I looked at Anthony's previous acoustic panel versions, how do/did they perform. I ask because they don't seem to be made out of exotic materials etc compared to his newer version like you have. Not to mention they cost a fortune to get them up to Canada.
It was memory mattress foam I think 3" thick. I'm not familiar with older Grimani room treatments. Just Sonitus in this video.
@@Audioholics Thanks Gene, did you think of using the rockwool comfort board instead of the memory foam? So what frequency band and how much absorption does the memory foam provide. Thanks.
@@wally6193 yes but black Rockwool wasn't readily available. I'm not sure about the memory foam absorption characteristics but I can definitely hear real improvement with it installed. It's extremely dense material.
@@Audioholics Ah, right, no black Rockwool available and considering it is behind your screen, enough said. Good to know you heard a big improvement with the memory foam. Would be interesting to know what the freq curve looks like for the foam. Thanks again.
@@Audioholics Gene, did you hear this improvement on your 2 channel listening or HT system or both. I'm more concerned about 2 ch. thanks again.
When is sonitus getting more in stock?
Ceiling is the only surface worth investing in absorption and diffusion panels. The rest of the surfaces can be treated with general household items like heavy drapes, area rugs, plants, cushioned furniture, fiberglass wool and bookshelves placed strategically. 🤔
The ceiling isn't the only surface area worth investing in absorption and diffusion panels! 🤦🏾♂️
But yeah if you don't have the WAF then bookcases can act as diffusers. Though obviously not as good as proper acoustic diffuser panels.
Absorption heavy drapes hung on the wall will absorb very little. Simply aren't anywhere thick enough to make much difference.
Well actually…..
the rugs will work well enough for high frequency absorption
For the low frequency stuff you’re right, they won’t have the thickness/ depth to do much with bass
@@demonreturns4336 Your right wool rug hung on the wall would absorb a decent amount of the higher frequencies. But you fail to mention that usually isn't a good thing. Unless you have specifically sparkley high frequency speakers!
That's why knowledgeable pros advise against using thin depth 1 or 2 inch absorption panels. As it will absorb too much high frequencies.
They recommend at least 4 inch or more depth broadband absorption panels so it absorbs more of the mids and a little of the lows. Though can sometimes get away with a 2 inch depth absorption panel if you have couple of inches air gap from the wall.
Center channel looks way too small compared to left and right. Any specific reason for that? So do they still sound with seamless front sound stage ?
Thr center channel has the identical driver compliment to the main left and rights minus the subs. Bass managed, no need for subs for the center
@@Audioholics understood ....great job Jene!!!! 😊😊😊😊👍 And the overall room is fantastic !!!
Is Sonitus still in business? I've been looking to get some panels from them for over six months and have checked their website regularly and nothing has been in stock.
Yea supply issues like everyone else I'm sure.
Would a 3d printer skyline diffuser work as well as a wooden one? It would be effectively hollow and not dense like wood so I'm assuming it wouldnt reflect much below the higher frequencies.
3D printed plastics aren't hollow. And you can now get some reinforced 3D printer materials - Kevlar, Carbon Fiber that are extremely strong!
The 3D printed cup and snack holder I got off Esty is made of tough durable Polycarbonate plastic.
But anyway natural wood will produce a more natural sound than synthetic plastic for a acoustic diffuser 🎶 plus wood looks much nicer aesthetically.
@@C--A I print, and 99.9% of 3d printed parts are honeycombed and very hollow. Otherwise you'd use up a massive amount of filament. Strength wouldn't be an issue so using CF nylon would be a waste. I've never heard of diffuser material having any effect on sound as it either reflects or it doesnt.
@@SunsetWingman My 3D printed cup holder and 3D printed snack tray holder aren't hollow. They're solid not going to break unless I put a saw to them!
You wouldn't want a diffuser made of cardboard would you. Material choice does matter for diffusers. Synthetic hard expanded polystyrene like in the Audioholics home diffusers do work very well.
But natural material wood (as long as the right one) will perform even better, maybe not by much. Forgetting measuments natural wood simply sounds more pleasant to the ears than polystyrene if you tap on it.
I've tried both similar polystyrene and wooden diffusers. I preferred the more natural sound of the wooden diffusers. May measure similarly, but wood does have a different tone characteristic than polystyrene and also plastic.
Interested in seeing before and after LF decay times, ETC measurements, and how well established the ITD Gap is.
Thoughts?
Did you go with gramanis non-symmetrical layout, in that absorption faces defusion on the opposite wall? I found I did not like this and layout and made it symmetrical in the end
Nope I prefer symmetrical layout as well.
Hey Gene what’s the fundamental difference between symmetrical and asymmetrical?
@@demonreturns4336 Most people go with symmetry because we are hard wired in the brain to visually prefer the look of a symmetrical layout.
But if we were blindfolded and listened to both a symmetrical and non symmetrical layout. Both would sound good, it would then come down to personal preference.
The idea of a non symmetrical layout for acoustic room treatment. Is in real life outside in the streets, parks, in buildings etc most things to the left and right of our ears aren't symmetrical. They are asymmetrical - ie different on each side.
Thought you were going to say the wires.
How would you treat your open concept room? So many of us are in open concept living room/ kitchen/ dining rooms, tile floors, windows on one side kitchen on other. None of these panels are going to be acceptable WAF or myself visually. Use room correction DSP and just live with the echo chamber it is what it is or try another channel.
Add mass to the room (ie. Thick padded throw rug on floor, thick curtains on windows and glass doors, decorative art with absorption fiberglass behind it, bookcases on side or back walls, etc.
Adam Luke I've got windows all along one side of my room though luckily it's not open concept. Originally had just thin curtains which wasn't good for music or movies!
So I threw away the thin curtains. Replaced them with window roller blinds, plus thicker velvet curtains. Also have curtain tie-backs at each end.
So I can slide each curtain to the tie-backs if I just want the blinds to be down. Can roll the blinds up if not watching a movie or listening to music. Let some light in.
Plus I do have several 4 inch thick absorption panels with front scattering plates. Plus several diffuser panels. Acoustic room treatment makes a big difference to the sound quality of the room!
@Audioholics his stuff is still showing out of stock...been like that forever....:(
The great majority of commercially available acoustic treatments that I've ever seen are horribly finished (uneven cuts, inconsistent paint/stain, dents/dings, etc.) and incredibly simple, yet they're still ridiculously expensive. 80% of people should be building their own custom solutions bespoke to their specific environments... or the companies who sell these products should get a lot better at intelligent design and efficient fabrication.
Agreed 💯
you wouldn’t need panels if you made the living room the home theater.
That makes no sense but ok.
William Wonder weird comment!
My small carpeted living room is my home cinema. I've got 11 acoustic panels - hybrid absorbers with front scattering plates, hybrid PolyFusors, wooden diffusers.
Most people don't make their living room a home cinema because of the WAF. I'm single live along so can do as I please. Plus mine actually looks stylish and blends in with my room decor.
No No No You should be adding $1000 power cables that will beat any acoustic treatments ..........
Sadly if this video was about cables, it would get 10X the views....
@@Audioholics yeah you're right there..... This is a Very interesting video that a lot of folk would do well from watching
Don't be sniffing Paint Gene and all that Treatment means nothing if you are not enjoying the set up (Spend lots of time there)...Enjoy!
I don’t subscribe to the idea of “too dead” when it comes to listening rooms. All I want to here is the direct radiation of the speakers. I don’t want to hear the room at all.
That's unfortunate. All of the research on small room acoustics and subjective listening preferences don't agree with that sentiment.
@@Audioholics I guess I should ad that I use the BACCHMac cross talk cancelation DSP. A basic tenent of that system and approach to stereo playback is that ideally all you should hear is the direct radiation from the speakers. More specifically the left ear should only hear the left speaker and the right ear should only hear the right speaker. IMO based on my experience with this approach it is far and away the best way to do stereo playback. But even before that, the less I heard the room the better so long as I was not creating a passive EQ with the room treaments. I have looked at a fair amount of the research and I think it is very limited in it's scope and mostly quite dated. And I have spoken to a couple guys who have done a lot of cutting edge propietary reseach on the subject who agree with the notion that less room leads to more accurate playback. All listening room sound is added coloration. Nothing wrong with liking it but IMO it's limited in benefits and counter productive for the approach that eliminates speaker cross talk.
@@scottwheeler2679 you have a very specialized case here so I understand your viewpoint.
Just an academic point, whatever happened to LEDE (live-end-dead-end.) That doesn’t seem to be coming into play here.
@@declanfarber old approach and we've refined over the years....