Do we finally have an accurate Flat Earth Map?
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
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People have long asked for an accurate map of Flat Earth but to no avail ... but is that about to finally change?
FTFE Vs Flatzoid Livestream: • Ruining A Flat Earther...
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#globe #science #flatearth #flatmap #flatearthmap - Наука та технологія
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It's a stroke of brilliance for "Atlas" VPN to advertise on this. It's hilarious.
VPN ad = Instant thumb down. Please stop harming people.
@@cosmefulanito5933 so you are a patron then or just a cheap bastard that wants every thing given to them for free?
Spoiler alert!! Science your way out of it though and keep making videos that help to further the lies and deception they indoctrinate society with. Hope you gettin' paid well for it at least
@@tjjones621 You mean across the plane😅
No, because the earth isn't flat.
Please call spoileralert next time 😂
the world is round because there is no point.
I'm waiting for a flerf to comment here with some stupid argument.
@@o5-1-formerlycalvinlucien60 I got fired from my job stocking shelves, so now I have time to research by watching endless hours of guys proving to me the world is flat by making snarky comments. Now I'm special 'cuz I know the TRUTH that all you globetard sheepole don't understand! --there now you don't have to wait anymore ;)
@@o5-1-formerlycalvinlucien60
You'll not have to wait long then.
I mean, stupid arguments are all they have.
I've been waiting for over 5 years for one to make an intelligent argument.
Never ask:
A woman - her age
A man - his salary
A flat earther - what model do they actually use
Unlike the first two examples you list, the last one doesn't actually have one.
@@Tsudico What seems to follow from this is that you shouldn't ask a woman flat earther the age of her flat earth model
@@contrarian8870or how much a flat Earth man how much he makes peddling flerf BS 😆
"If you are flatearther and someone asks your where is your model, show them the globe because globe is a flat earth model" (c) Brian's Logic
Never ask:
A woman - If she's Flat 😂
A man - If his balls are spherical 😂
A flat earther - nvm 😂
I clicked on this video thinking that somebody finally found a way to project a sphere onto a flat plane without distortion, consequently violating every known law of topology and mathematics.
Sorry to disappoint you 😉
At least we don't have to rewrite large portions of mathematics and physics. Yet.
@@SuperMarioOddity Any day now, as soon as we "awake".
@@therealzilch Bro's copying the BotW plotline
@@SuperMarioOddity Hey, I wouldn't have anything against being able to defy physics. Would be very practical for steep hills.
Flerf: "The north pole is in the middle and Antarctica is around the border of the Earth"
Sane person: "Give me an accurate map of the flat Earth please."
Flerf: *Pulls up a map with north pole on top and Antarctica at the bottom*
obviously because the computer screen isn't disc shape, but rectanglar /s
Actually a classic mercator view biased to the north -- without antarctica, and with the equator below centre (showing from about 80 degrees north to 60 degrees south).
That was a flat map,was it not? The top and bottom is your imagination.
Gleason map and UN Flag..
@@NutriWiseInsightsyes it’s a flat map, but the keyword here is accurate, which it most certainly isn’t.
I was in an ancient thread, possibly two years ago, where a flat earther bet me I couldn’t produce an accurate globe map. So I took a couple hours and compiled a list of sources of globes and survey data, and sent them over to this flat earther who tried to call my bluff.
An hour later he comes back and says that everything I sent him was wrong. I then asked him to provide evidence. He sent me over to the Wikipedia page for flat earth and told me that was all the evidence I need.
He had no idea what the article said because in the very first line on that page it calls the flat earth hypothesis an archaic model, which means it’s deprecated and no longer accepted.
"an *ancient* thread, possibly two years ago"
Glares at you in USENET.
lmao it's in the description
went to Wikipedia too for the topic of Flat Earth and I must say the Orlando-Ferguson flat earth model is quite charming.
but using Wikipedia as evidence just shows to lack of scientific insight. Wikipedia a handy tool, but never evidence.
No self respecting flerf would read a citation before using it as evidence.
@@andysibley1 They can't afford to, what with the dearth of evidence in their favor. They're forced to take whatever rancid scraps they can find.
The last flat-earther who I know tried to create an accurate flat-earth map was Tiger Dan. He ultimately came to realization that it wasn't possible to create an accurate flat-earth map of the entire world since it just doesn't correspond to reality.
For his honesty in his failed attempt to provide evidence in favor of the flat-earth the rest of the flat-earth community attacked him and called him a shill and a traitor. This is likely why none of them still try to today. The con-artists know it's an impossible request and the true believers are too afraid of the cognitive dissonance of finding out that they're wrong and have been wasting their lives on self-delusion.
yep.. brought up Tiger Dan to a FE.. they called him a shill and that he was never a true FE..
@@entangledmindcells9359 Well, after discovering the true shape of the Earth, how could you possibly stay in the land of paranoid delusion?
@@phildavenport4150it's easy if you don't have a working model of how to determine bullshit from reality.
Any critical thinker would notice that the globe model works for ANY test, but the flat model literally does not exist. There is no model.
They can't even agree if the world is a disk, a dome, or if the ice goes on for infinity.
Atleast he actually tried, unlike people who tries to redirect it to a damn site
@@-ZM_Gaming- Oh absolutely. I completely respect that Tiger Dan tried to actually test his erroneous belief and accepted the truth once he realized that flat-earth just can't work in reality. My issue is with the rest of the flat-earth community who refused to accept the truth (or who lied about it) and attacked him for coming to the only logical conclusion.
I think Flatzoid perfectly explained why 6 inches here in Mexico is significantly longer than 6 inches in the UK when I go home for Christmas.
Naah, that's just the cold weather.
The fact that a RECTANGULAR projection of a GLOBE being used as "proof" that the earth is flat says all you need to know about these people's thinking. If you take a photograph of an object and print it out, you cant just take the photograph and say "its flat, therefore the object must be flat"!
If you are a flat earther, yes you can.
Flat earther be like: "Next thing you're gonna tell me is that objects still exist when I'm not looking at them."
I remember decades ago when I was in flight school. We used WAC (World Aeronautical Charts) to do visual navigation, which are based on Lambert's Conformal Orthogonic projections and are superbly accurate for measuring distances point to point _over shorter distances_. These maps showed only about 100 miles or so segments of the country we flew over (Australia).
One rainy day, we were bored and thought it would be a good idea to create a map of the entirety of Australia on our crew room wall by sticking together about 40 of these WAC charts on the whole wall. But when we tried, we quickly discovered that it was almost impossible to do, because the edges of the maps were not parallel due to the projection, and that we could not neatly butt each map against each other without some sort of overlapping or distortion required.
That was a quick and very real introduction to the challenges that map makers faced trying to represent a globe on a flat plain!
And I remember "capturing" the flat Plain (sic) before takeoff on my AI / Gyro and flying three hundred and fifty miles where upon landing I was amazed to see the AI parallel to the runway beneath my arse.
The End.
We’re you attending flat earth flat school or global earth flight school, the each teach a completely set of mathematical calculations, and you should notify Air Traffic Control when requesting vectors when landing or you might end up the twilight zone, of a time-space continuum. Be careful out there.
@@jlr3636 sad - any pilot knows exactly what I said in ONE sentence - but they will never say it publicly except behind a pseudonym.
@@user-ns8py8by1x
Had it not been a globe you hadn't been level with anything by the time you reach the same point but then you would also have the very first robust evidence the earth was a flat plane.
@@guytheincognito4186 you gonna have to be a tad more clear there mate -- no sarc, but your words don't make sense. The premise is a gyro is rigid in space - so I effectively "transported the level tangent" 350 nm and on arrival said tangent was parallel to instant tangent at the new location -- not possible on a ball
"Like arguing with a random number generator."
- Prof. Brian Cox
Only in the case of flerfs, the only generated are ZEROS...😉
@@Allan_aka_RocKITEman
Oh, heavens, no! 0s are much too.. oblately circular… It makes one quite uncomfortable, doesn’t it? Yes, 1s are nice and flat. Who doesn’t like 1s, am I right?
you can take 1000 "flat earthers" ... 1000 miles into space ... for 1000 minutes ... to take 1000 pictures, of a spinning sphere ... and they will invent 1000 lies that the trip never happened !!
From lies to stupidity to pride, flat earthers don't give up XD
No.
You can't.
@@mrsticky005 *gasp*
How ominous!!
Two big questions for flat Earthers:
1; Can a flat Earther tell me which direction I should look at night to see Polaris. From where I live here in central Queensland, Australia.
2; Around the world yacht racers: why do they usually sale as far south as possible into the southern oceans to go around the world as fast as possible, as there’s less distance to travel than if they stayed further north? How does that work on your flat Earth where the further “south” you go, the longer the distance around the world?
Further you go from an object smaller it gets until you cannot see it anymore that applies to Polaris from Australia simple matter of perspective.
And yes further you are from the center of the Earth AKA North longer the distance traveling around it would be just like on a dinner plate or on a merry-go-round it is really that simple no need for NASA and public school indoctonation nonsense
@@Jan-zm2yv I can tell that you're not an astronomer, not even a casual one. If you sight Polaris and then go 60 nautical miles south, Polaris will descend by a degree. Keep doing this until you pass the Equator, and it will set below the horizon. Not just get "too far away to see", but visibly go out of sight behind the curve.
A couple of years ago, I was at the Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania, two degrees south of the Equator. Being a fairly serious amateur astronomer, I knew how to locate Polaris based on other stars. And guess what? The spot the other stars pointed to was below the horizon. This was with breathtakingly clear skies and 360⁰ visibility. How could that be; if the Earth were flat?
@@therealzilch Scotty I'm not an astronomer I don't need to be I have common sense and I understand perspectives and how things get smaller when you go farther away from them.
The reason you don't see Polaris is the same reason you don't see a semi truck that's 100 miles away from you it just simply too far to see it's that simple really .
NASA and the pseudoscience they preach put big numbers next to everything to make our brains go into overdrives and give up and stop critically thinking
@@Jan-zm2yv Except that's not common sense, so if you assume it is, it shows you don't understand it.
@@therealzilchYes reason expereience and Logic, but Flerfs don‘t mind them… they don‘t believe in logic cause „rhey have never seen their brain with their own eyes“.
Therefore most Flaters die in the process of converting ti rounders and brain believers.
A map of the globe is difficult to make cause 2D vs 3D; but an accurate map of the flath earth should be really simple to make. Yet they never provide one.
No ITS quite maybe even Impossible to Producer one
@@timo4463 maybe??? :)
And they never provide the same one.
@@tjjones621 yea it is
Gleason map
Dave, your manner in your video is superior because you do not get emotional, do not speak down to flat earthers, just casually present your case. Bravo!
And they hate him for it.
My thoughts too.
I expect the dog helps.
The big question always is, can he keep his composure during a live discussion with a flat earther? 🤔
This, when I first found this channel I was impressed with his maturity on the subject, usually people who debunk FE's are rude, prideful, and just downright nasty. It's refreshing to see someone show why it can't be flat with maturity and professionalism.
I told a Flat Earther I know about interviewing some re-enactors at a fort event I visited, they were playing the part of old surveyors heading across North America, and they had all kinds of cool equipment. They told me that when laying down grid systems over flat States for the first time, the northern edges would flair outwards after a dozen or so miles if you tried to keep them at the same width as the southern edges, so they would chop the north edge short on the next block occasionally. A lot of north/southerly county roads will dodge east or west sometimes, as they were often placed along property boundaries.
This being, of course, that latitude lines draw constantly closer to eachother the farther north you go, so laying a perfect square grid to establish large areas over a State that you measure with chain and sighting equipment is also impossible.
It was just a cool anecdote the re-enactment folks told me, and when I passed it along to my Flat Earth friend, he got upset with me and asked me if I was just trying to change his mind.
Of course I was. Of course. And he did not like this.
That has been my tag line for years. I ask Flerfs “do you have a working flat earth map?”
The standard answer is ‘all maps are flat’. So I then give them a screenshot of Google Earth with a flight plan. It’s a map of a globe. 🤣
When they say "all maps are flat" I tell them they are forgetting the two most important ones..
The FE map... doesn't exist.
The GLOBE map... all flerfs use it to drive around.
Then I ask for the name of their map. That usually makes them go insane. :)
The Mercator map system is used in navigational charts because it allows a route to be plotted between 2 points as a simple straight line. Sailing along this line would allow a constant compass bearing as a heading, which makes navigation easy. However, it is NOT the shortest route. The shortest route would appear as a curve (part of a "great circle") on the Mercator map and require the navigator to keep adjusting the heading throughout the route. This is because the Earth is a globe.
In extreme cases (close to the poles and over long distances), a Mercator line would become a very long and rather silly spiral.
This is known as a rhumb line or loxodrome.
The Mercator is such a misused projection. It should never be used for educational purposes (other than in the history of map making) because of the distortions it shows. most atlas's i've seen now use other projections for the full globe
Funniest part... all flerfs use the globe map to navigate. we are witnessing mass indoctrination.
Right; for navigation you *don't* draw a line on the Mercator map. You start with a different map (I don't recall what it's called) and draw a line on that one. Then you transfer that line to the Mercator map, where it becomes a curve. The tangent at each point on that curve gives you the bearing to sail to. But the ship can't stick to the line perfectly; when a location is determined, and it's still close enough to that line, the course is adjusted based on the closest point on the line (if the plotted location is not near enough to the line, you start over and plot a new course from here to the destination while you get the ship's steward to chant "recalculating...")
@@listerofsmeg884 I think equal area projections should really be more common for such non critical stuff. They're much harder for the flatbrains to point and yell about with their abundance of round edges and wavy lines.
I worked on a software project which generated heat maps of walkability. I used a hex grid because it made computing the walk time simpler. The hex tiles are of course squashed due to mapping between longitude and feet, and initially I just used the average stretch for simplicity. But even across a single city, the difference in amount of warp needed is visually noticeable and the hexes would not line up. So I had to accurately compute the ratio of longitude to feet at each hexagon vertex to get everything to line up. I forget the numbers now, but it was on the order of several feet per mile (about 1 part per thousand).
Moral of the story, with precise tools, it does not take very much to start needing to correct for curvature. If you had a big flat area, a laser, a tripod, rangefinder, and an accurate square, I bet you could show it. Four 90° turns on a sphere does not a square make.
IIRC, there was a guy who's channel was called "The Maine Surveyor." He posted a video showing a measurable difference in local vertical, consistent with the globe, over a distance of 100 meters or less.
Makes you wonder why more map systems don't use a triangular grid. Triangles can both tile the plane and approximate a sphere, and can be arbitrarily subdivided. We could just number the unit cells in bands starting from the north pole. You can also map triangles to hex just by grouping them together.
@@dustinbrueggemann1875 But really, how is this different than latitude and longitude, which effectively use "isosceles trapezoids"? You can approximately tile a sphere in triangles only if you allow dissimilar triangles, so you have all the same problems as with any sort of quadrilateral. Not fighting here, just trying to understand your point.
@@crisdunbar4753 you can absolutely approximate a sphere using identical triangles. The only major reason geodesic maps aren't used everywhere is because square coordinates are easier to use.
When I read this the first time, I thought that "feet" meant human feet. It wasn't until later that I saw that you meant American feet.
Its mathematically proven that their is no way to map a sphere onto a continous flat surface without sacrificing relative scale or relative directional travel
-The one with the dome to keep the air in?
-The one with the ice wall to keep the oceans in?
-the one with the impossibly moving local sun & moon to account for astronomy obs?
-The one that's like a pacman level explaining circumnavigation?
-The the one where there's exploitable land and people? beyond the ice wall explaining the cover-up?
-The one that's accelerating upwards to account for gravity?
...Any others?
the one with normal scales without teleportation?
@@user-sv6zn4vg6z oo! the one where Australia dosn't exist!
@@herringnjd the one with a giant flying turtle underneath that holds our pizza on its back
@@Alan-ez6ji love a bit of Terry pratchett
@@Alan-ez6ji The one with turtles all the way down?
Wow. So the scale for lines of longitude are getting smaller nad smaller the closer you get to the poles? Almost like they are all coming together to a single point? How strange... I wonder what that would like if it wasn't scaled to fit in a rectangle. There would definitely be some kind of curviture going on.
Ironically, they would still do that, at least for one pole, even if you had the pizza model, that flerfs like to use.
Well, the Gleason map longitude lines converge as well, but not at the same rate as the globe. However, the longitude lines continue to diverge south of the Equator, making east-west depictions and continental proportions completely ludicrous on the Gleason.
@@annoprofi4797 >"for one pole"
But not for both at the same time, which is the key here
Sadly Flat durthers don't seem to realise that their 'map' is changing scale in order to work as a representation of a globular Earth. They have to have some sort of blinkers in order to willfully misrepresent things and or some are almost literally brainless
There was a guy - I think his name was a TigerDan295 - who had a series where he was trying to assemble an 'accurate' and biblically compliant flat earth map, because he thought mainstream flat earth proponents were shills lying to people about the north pole being at the centre of a disc and the Antarctica ice wall.... it was a fascinating exercise in watching cognitive dissonance at work, as he kept pushing on, the guy was losing first his mind, and then possibly his religion as well.
Going in the other direction: I recall reading a pamphlet at a (very friendly) local mosque, touting how the Koran had predicted various modern scientific discoveries - plate tectonics comes to mind, citing passages that poetically (even in translation) mentioned moving mountains or something like that.
It struck me as both trying *way* too hard AND missing the point of religion entirely.
that's him in the corner...
@@larrywest42 Well, nothing wrong with explaining to people the ways your religion doesn't fly in the face of basic facets of reality. If the Bible said crossing the Atlantic Ocean was impossible and all who tried would be struck down by an angel it wouldn't have lasted past the 1500's.
so basically he did science - thats nothing to be ridiculed for. i mean sure he could have taken a shortcut, but in the end he did the exact right thing and instead of blindly believing he did put his theories to the test.
if what OP said - or rather what i made of it - is ture
@@nein3405 Sort of, for low values of "ish". He determined, quite correctly, that flat projection used on the UN flag couldn't be the actual shape of things. He checked into what the Antarctic treaty said and was upset by the lies some flerfs tell about it, and the false claim no one is allowed to go there.
So he started work, still presupposing that the earth was flat. No attempt to explain things like sunset and sunrise, movement of the stars in the southern hemisphere, anything like that.
And he presupposed that the bible was 100% inerrant.
Then and only did did he start trying to drop continents into place based on flight times and the like, having assumed that the south pole was probably the centre of the disc since he'd evicted the north pole.
Some points for what probably felt to him like an attempt at the scientific method, but none for the execution or the way the "data" was verified.
I did re-find his channel, he's since deleted all that, and gone back to pushing bible prophecy.
Flatzoid doesn't seem to realise that when Dave McKeegan chimed in with the widths of the grid squares decreasing as you near the top and bottom "edges" of the map (or Poles if you will), that is exactly what you would expect from a (gasp) GLOBE.
13:20 “It’s accurate to the position you’re situated” that’s why this debate will never end, they make up their own rules
Lying Flat Earth Liars, hey?
Yeah the lack of a map not to say a coherent model of flat earth is so telling
I've never seen anybody pull out a globe to navigate anywhere.
@@Hellndegenerates - be honest, you have never seen anyone try to navigate by hand more than a few miles at a time
@@Hellndegenerates Why would anyone need a globe when most people only travel/navigate short distances, when a fold up map on a piece of paper that can fit in your pocket would suffice? Globe is clunky to carry around, 2D paper can be folded and fit in your pocket. Have you ever tried thinking logically about the garbage you've learned to parrot?
@@Hellndegenerates and yet the distances on the globe actually match travelled, documented distances in reality while all flat maps require compensation to make up for distortions.
Weird, isn't it? Almost as if one is more accurate than the other.
@@Hellndegenerates sure, because it’s easier to use something like Mercator because it has particular properties since it was designed around navigation, specifically that travelling along a straight line on Mercator only requires a single compass bearing the whole way, but it is not the shortest route, since the planet isn’t flat, the shortest route looks like a curve on Mercator, and is why flight paths look like that, becoming more pronounced the further from the equator you get.
A funny thing about using these open sea maps even without measuring is that if you drag the map East or West, you eventually end up back where you started.
that is hilarious
😂😂😂
Another great video. A very minor correction: at 10:42 you say that it was only with the invention of the Harrison clock in 1762 that it was possible to determine longitude at sea. While Harrison's invention was very important for navigation, it was not the only way to determine longitude. Galileo had already suggested that the appearance and disappearance of the Jovian moons he discovered could be used as a clock in the sky. Already in the late 17th century it was practiced, and although it was very tricky at sea, both Captain James Cook and Alexander von Humboldt sighted the Galilean moons to establish their longitude.
Thanks for clearing up that little error. Good fact check.
There's a wonderful book about the Harrison clocks that covers this point. "Longitude" by Dava Sobel.
@@davidjulian8536 Yes, I'll second that recommendation. A gripping tale.
You can use lunar distancing to correct/ check a clock.
@@marcg1686 Yes. But this method has not been documented before 1767, after the invention of Harrison's chronometer.
I love the fact that you still respond to flat earthers in the comments even 8 months later, fight the good fight Dave, also that ad transition was smooth af
Whenever they say that if you'd zoom in more on a ship going behind the horizon, it'd reappear, Shouldn't the same thing happen in sunset where if you'd zoom in on the spot the sun had set, you'd start seeing the sun again? They shut down after I ask them that or then they blatantly lie and say they would.
May be they realize the consequences of this bullsh.t. Your own sunshine no one else can see.
Another thing flattards dont understand is the difference between a boat in front of the horizon and a ship beyond the horizon
@@C_Becker They only get to see that when they stick their heads up their arses.
@@C_Becker
Whenever they say it comes back if you zoom in, I tell them that I have a spotter scope with a zoom, and ask them if they want to bet £500, or any amount they care to mention, and we'll meet up and put it to the test.
You don't hear from them again.
I have asked if I took two cameras, one on a telescope and one with a standard lens, could I take simultaneous photos of a sunset with one showing a full sun and the other a half sun.
Never had an answer.
Another great example of side stepping and making things up. Flatzoid is very good at that. Made me chuckle watching FTFE laughing at his responses too. Great job once again Dave.
Flatzoid is simply under-equipped intellectually. The guy has a disability-qualifying IQ. He is dumb as a stump. I don't think he intentionally sidesteps and diverts, he just seriously does not understand most of what is being said to him.,
Failzoid is a joke.
Not to mention the Antarctic wall only sits at the bottom and the Sun must do the Pac-Man thing where it magically appears on the other side to begin each new day.
@@jwb932 😂
globe dummy god einstein said "it's embarrassing" on the result of Michaelson Morley experiment that earth is not moving. globe dummies do not have a single proof of globe, spinning, whooshing.
globe.exe has stopped spinning and succumbed to death. globe is buried in this flat earth. RIP gl😢be.
Thanks, Dave, for explaining for me what, I'm sure, everyone else probably feels is obvious. Measurement discrepancies between maps and globes really makes a lot more sense to me now. I appreciate your work, I truly learned something!
Where I went to school, among other Croats that have Geography as mandatory subject for 4 years in elementary school between ages 10 and 14 you'd known it all your life.. no offense 😅
Back in the day of only paper maps, many Mercator maps had a diagram that showed different scale depending on the latitude. This was a conical diagram. This explains the different scale caused by the projection from a globe to a flat map, This FE has no concept of cartography and how maps are constructed.
I remember maps has a little note on Greenland, stating that it was actually the same size as the Arabic peninsula... which was helpful, but made me nervous about the latter, at least being non-distorted. later of course I learned maths to a very advanced level, and discovered that all mysteries of life come from common language suited to the needs of folks who cannot think straight for more than 2 seconds
I asked a flat earther this question. How does the moon have shafows that look like a glibe if the earth is flat? Why isnt the shadow horizontal? They redirect me to videos that still cant prove it.
the world is round because there is no point.
I have seen a video where the flat earther claimed it would be a full moon seen from the northern side of the Equator and a new moon seen from the southern side.
@@DogFish-NZ lol good one
@grahvis isn't everyone facing North on a flat earth according to them? So how could that work lol
Fun little experiment with a ball and a food plate. Make shadows on a wall while twisting them. Demonstrates what you say
Clearly, Flatzoid either doesn't understand what a map is, or is desperately trying to find some justification for ignoring what should be blindingly obvious: if the earth were indeed flat then every measurement ever made of the positions of places and the angles between them would have been made on a flat earth. As a result, it would be _child's play_ to use those measurements to draw a flat map that had a single consistent scale and from which you could recover directly the positions, sizes, and bearings of everywhere.
Where is that map?
It doesn't exist.
The reason: the earth isn't flat. It is actually worse than that for flat earthers. Gauss *proved* in his "elegant theorem" that it is *impossible* to transform a curved surface into a flat one, or vice versa, without introducing distortions or cuts or both. To see this, think about wrapping a ball in a flat sheet of paper, or trying to flatten out the whole peel of an orange.
So if the earth really was flat then you could not make an accurate globe map - it's a shame then that we have one and use it all the time.
Equally, if the earth is a globe then you cannot make an accurate flat map (with no distortions and/or cuts) - hence the plethora of map projections which try to minimise various aspects of the distortions depending on the end application.
Finally, it should also be obvious that you can't do what some flat earthers also try to claim, which is take an accurate flat earth map (which then remains hidden), transform it into an accurate globe map, and then use that to produce inaccurate projections.
In short, if the earth really is flat, where is the undistorted map that should be easy to produce?
baffled that Flatzoid keeps desperately clinging to "changing scales is totally ok for a Scale Model". Imagine a scale model airplane but the wings are half the size, but That's OK because the different scale is labeled.
I'm still undecided whether Flatzoid is a liar and a conman or still believes the Flat Earth nonsense. I think at this point he should've realized, but the few coins he earns with his charade must be too important to put a stop to it
@@fostena He is a liar, remember the 11 deleted frames, which he consequently tried to excuse. He is not the good person everyone thinks because he also made a meme supporting a certain well known German dictator.
This comment is underrated, man. It’s such an easily understood concept.
@@fostena Failzoid = 🤡ID ,ten ,T #GottaLieToFlerf ©2023 MCToon 🤡 He's as big a liar as any other flerf and twice as obnoxious.
*clicks video*
No. Because the earth isn't flat.
*closes video*
The earth is flat broo🥰🥰🥰🥰
I'm here for the comments. More interesting than a Flerf rant.
One afternoon about 6 or 7 years ago I was watching UA-cam when I came across an earth flattening video that blew my mind. The claims were astounding and I was hooked. Everything that this person was saying made sense and he had proof to back it up!
But then I say and really thought about it a few weeks later. I'm ashamed that for those few weeks I was in with the flat earthers. The biggest "duh" moment was that a "proof" that was presented had to do with the sun rays that you see shining through a treeline and so on. The idea was that you could "accurately" measure where the sun was based on the angle of three sun rays. While in theory that would work if it were a singular light source being projected at a smaller distance, the problem was that the "angle" of each ray would then change as you moved along the line of trees. That was when I thought "wow how did I fall for this"
Upon further actual research other "proofs" fell away quickly.
Keep up the good work!
Nice. Clear thinking does the job again.
the interesting thing is that since flattards have to pretend that their sun is a proportional distance for size, the crepuscular rays would look the same for flattardia or reality.
crepuscular rays are almost always seen when the sun is low in the sky. at the time that the flattards say the angle of the sun's rays can be used to calculate the height of the sun, the sun is actually verifiably above a point on the earth thousands of miles away.
Because the earth isn't flat.
It’s a donut
@@AugustineBusch-ck1sgIt’s dinosaur shaped
I tried to make a big wall map out of several OS maps. I remember at the time wondering why I couldn't get the edges to match properly.
I did as a kid, Then realised it was earth curvature.
I tried to weave a dallas cowboys star logo as a kid and found out the arms of the star are not all the same angle, in order to have its "shoulders" be totally level. Unrelated but I said it anyway.
what is OS?
@@intelchip_x86 Ordnance Survey, the mapping service for Great Britain.
I don’t know what went wrong, but in fact OS maps can be tiled into a larger map, because they all use the same projection. I assume you’re talking about maps of Great Britain. The only difficulty is that the maps overlap, so you would have to cut them.
Want to melt flat earthers minds, tell them everything weighs less on the equator. All they have to do is get a nice scale and a few weights, weigh everything in canada, mail it all to another flat earther that lives closer to the equator (much closer) and weigh it again. Or they could do this in reverse..
Yep. Flat Earthers have all kinds of crazy magical "explanations" for phenomena that don't fit the flat, but I've never heard them even attempt to explain this, or the related Eötvös effect.
Alexander Gleason came up with this very idea, that if Earth were flat, then we should be able to come up with a flat map that would show equal distances everywhere on that map. Hence why he came up with his Gleason AE map should be able to be navigated with accurately. And even went so far as to pass them out to sailors to attempt to prove just that. Except as Joshua Slocum wrote in his book, even sailing in the northern hemisphere closer to N. Pole in which it should be more accurate, the distance was inaccurate so bad within a week, he stopped using it. Just as other sailors had already debunked that map being able to navigate by (without using conversion calculations needed like with any AE projection map). Which is likely why Gleason AE map within a decade of being published it fell in obscurity for over a century.
the flat earth society has members all across the globe
The only thing flat earthers fear is sphere itself 😅
'around' the globe
@@user-ih5jr8rt5q yes that is the point.
Don't these individuals understand that GPS and all flight plans are based on radius and not a flat Earth? In fact, I ask the flat-earthers if they use GPS. When they admit it, I suggest that they stop because the system is based on a globe. This is another most excellent video. Thank you.
i've heard theories to explain GPS away as "satellites" on weather balloons. But, if the earth was flat, theres no reason why we couldn't use tall radio towers, with far less maintenance and reliability. Well i guess we *could* do that on a globe as well (in fact, i think there were some before GPS was launched), but we don't because sattelittes are cheaper, since we only need a dozen or so.
I've never had to deal with a flat-earther, but I think I'd ask what happens if I'm on the Equator and head East, do I cross various bodies of land and water and end up where I started? If not, why not, and how have multiple people done exactly that?
@@ralphm6901 You believe there is a cruise ship on the other side of the world sailing UPSIDE down. Water ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS seeks its LEVEL. It's IMPOSSIBLE for water to stick to a ball! IMPOSSIBLE! Yet you still be-LIE-ve in this FAIRY TALE.
Sadly, no . Flat Earthers are too braindead to realise. Ironically they probsbly all rely on Spherical Globe data ie gps in order to get around (if they can cope outside).
@@ralphm6901 I've dealt with a flat eather before. I lucked out, however, because they turned out to Not be one of those flat earthers who are crazy or in denial, this one was just very very stupid and I easily made them renounce their delusion by showing them the ship sailing over the horizon footage. My best advice if you ever encounter one is to not engage in their petty conflict.
It's sad to think that in this day and age, this is still a serious topic and we still have people actually seriously claiming the Earth is flat...
it's not a serious topic. it's a means of entertainment for most of us and a money making scam for failures in life like nate oafley.
It’s not “still” a serious topic - for actual _centuries_ most educated or scholarly people knew the Earth was a sphere (while most ordinary people had no opinion on the subject and didn’t actually care).
When I was a teenager back in the ‘60s I recall the BBC’s current affairs show “Tonight” had a feature about the British Flat Earth Society, which at that time had maybe eight or nine members. They were all obvious loonies of one sort or another.
I blame the revival of flat earth on too many featureless plains in middle America, combined with over-literal readings of the Bible amongst American religious cultists. Space research hasn’t actually helped - instead it’s infuriated Bible literalists and made them determined to stand up for the scientific “knowledge” available to a tribe of Middle Eastern shepherds with limited resources and no serious understanding of the universe, except elementary theories about weather and the seasons. Sending all the religious nuts to America probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but it’s definitely come back to bite us in the arse.
I just wanted to say this... A 15 degree per hour drift.
Thanks 😉
There is no drift.
@@Gay-is-_-trash wonderful, so what did the rlg measure?
(Reminder, it can only measure its own movement)
@@Alysm-Aviation What's an rlg
@@Gay-is-_-trash the quote "A 15 degree per hour drift" comes from famous flat earther Bob Knodel, RIP, after he obtained an aviation grade ring laser gyroscope and used it to measure earths rotation.
I watched bits of that debate with FTFE and Flatzoid. Listening to Flatzoid was like bashing my head against a wall.
His “argument” followed absolutely no consistent logic and I can’t even count how many times he contradicted himself.
"it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his worldview depends on his not understanding it", is true for Young Earth Creationists, Evolution deniers, and flerfs.
As a copout they will generally claim that the "official records are all wrong" and that "real distances are different than what we're being told".
Some even go so far as to state that time flows at a different speed depending on where on the flat earth you are, to give you the impression that the earth is spherical.
But then, when they assert their precious "black swan" is "11.534 miles away", where did they get that distance from? Not one of those pesky "lying distances" maps, I sincerely hope...
Just a few of 12 things that come to mind -- Why do flight times and miles traveled , based on a globe, calculate exactly right? Why did ships need a crow's nest so they could see farther? Why does sunset happen with the sun dissapearing from the bottom up? Why does sunrise begin with the sun appearing top first? Okay, I'm gone.
Do you know that the ‘sun’ is?
@@Globeishoax ???
@@electrolyticmaster8396 over flat earth
@@Globeishoax No enlighten me.
@@electrolyticmaster8396 so you asking me about the sun over flat earth, but you don’t know what that sun is? Weird
so the grid existed before the earth. that means my ancestors had to swing from grid line to grid line without falling off when they were hunting wooly mammoths.
Yeah, Cave Men were basically Spider-Man.
The Earth was a giant monkey cage apparently 😂
I think part of the problem Flatties have with maps is that we now mostly use GPS to get around, not actual maps in a book or on a page. That, and they never mentally get out of mummy's basement.
GPS? don't be stupid. they use PPS, or Plane Positioning System.
You are watching a video of a guy kissing his dog in his mother's basement you should get out of your glass house.
@Fred the 47th Was I supposed to say again NOBODY USE A GLOBE TO NAVIGATE flat maps are used ad GPS is just an electronic flat map
you know someone has a strong argument when they slap an insult in there... ignorant authoritarian...
Imagine a dude living in a technologically disadvantaged age *two thousand* years ago proves that the world he lives in is a globe, while people like this argue the opposite with no proof.
Proves how?
@@Globeishoax 240 BC
"Eratosthenes method was very simple; he measured the length of a shadow from a vertical stick of a known height in two cities on the same day. The ratio between the north-south distance between the two cities and the angles measured gave a ratio which allowed Eratosthenes to calculate the size of the Earth."
If the earth was flat all way round his measurements (which included Earth circumference and pole size) would be completely off, when in fact he was off only by about 50 miles on the diameter of poles.
@@danser_theplayer01 it’s all a myth, just like the whole ancient mythology with multiple gods and goddesses. Just go outside and observe a local sun hovering above.
@@danser_theplayer01 they didn’t have rockets and cameras to provide physical proof
@@Globeishoax Das a dude not a mythological creature or something, and if I show you a picture you'll be like "it's photoshop" but here's the thing - you can't photoshop maths.
I know it's off topic, but your dog is absolutely adorable!
First law of flerf: flerf citations( proof) contradicts flat earth
Kudos to flatzoid, for sending Craig a message of support during his recent problem. Mind you, it doesn't make watching flatzoid struggle, to find words to counter Craig's evidence, any less painful.
He seems like a genuinely good guy. I've been trolling him relentlessly for a couple months in his Livestreams and he's not been mean to me or censured me.
@@cygnustsp he blocked me for repeatedly calling him out as the math and physics equivalent of an illiterate that he is. Maybe I was a bit unfair and should have called him the equivalent of a functional illiterate?
@@hartmutholzgraefe yes he would've taken that better, he's perhaps one of the few I consider well intentioned but caught up on hero status
@@cygnustsp Failzoid is as big a liar as any flerf, and obnoxious with it.
Remember: 🤡#GottaLieToFlerf ©2023 MCToon 🤡
@@cygnustsp Are you serious? He's a compulsive liar who pushes flat earth for attention and money. And he has banned a lot of people for pointing out his lies and nonsense.
You mentioned Rockhampton! We live about 10km outside Rocky,
I loved my first viewing of “Behind The Curve” when it first came out. Coincidentally we had shortly before that returned from the USA on holidays.
What caught me out was the statement that there are no direct flights from destinations in the southern hemisphere to the north.
This surprised us, as we had just flown directly from Sydney, Australia, to San Francisco and back again a week later. 😂
00:23 Your dog was like that's no globe that's a ball
When need to laugh as incompetency, I watch how "Flat Earthers" attempt to explain "...the conspiracy." Well done Dave McKeegan.
They're so sure of it. Flatzoid especially has a huge conspiracy/Jesus angle. I find it quit refreshing as a lot of my time is spent watching JEHOVAH's Witness crap due to my mom being in that cult and all they do is say "JEHOVAH knows best"
What I want to know is -- why is this "conspiracy" necessary? Why does someone want us to believe the earth is round, if in fact it's flat? Why the conspiracy? Or are they just nuts?
@@gw-kz9yl to keep you from subjecting yourself to the god that set up observable reality so that you're damned, very simple stuff
@@gw-kz9yl sheer amount of contradictions tells that this is bs.
And if you will count amount of flerfs that evaded question - they're pathological liars!
So Flatzoid presented OpenSeaMap as accurate flat Earth map? A map that is "just" a different rendering style for OpenStreetMap data, and for technical reasons uses the same EPSG:3857 "spherical Mercator" projection (formerly informally known as EPSG:900913) as most other OpenStreetMap variants, as they all use the same map tile format as originally established by Google Maps?
Why didn't he use Google Maps right away then?
Because according to flatearthers google maps isn't accurate. So he can't use that.
So flatzoid claims the earth is square?
@@keit99 While I agree on Google Maps having lots of the finer details wrong or missing (e.g. in the village grew up in Google Maps has several buildings in an area where there's exactly one only, with some of their buildings apparently even having been built on top of streets. Some pattern recognition algorithm had gone wild there and misinterpreted shadows of hedges and tree lines as buildings) I bet that Google Maps and OpenStreetMap/OpenSeaMap have pretty much the same coast lines and country borders.
And both OpenStreetMap and OpenSeaMap use the same tile format as Google Maps as that allowed to use the same Web APIs (original Google Maps Api, OpenLayers, and later Leaflet).
The reason why he picked OpenSeaMap probably was that that's the only map presentation that has latitude and longitude grid line display enabled by default ...
@@hartmutholzgraefe that makes a lot more sense, although knowing flerfer's "logic", it not being google maps, could still have something to do with it.
Flatzoid actually claimed Google Earth is a flat earth map, so yeah make of that what you will.
Believe it or not, we live on a giant ball.
Do you have proof?
@@Globeishoax Go outside your basement and watch a sunset.
@@Globeishoax ha ha ha... I can see your brain damage is irreversible 😂 You can't fix stupid.
@@Globeishoax
No undistorted 2D map.
@@Globeishoaxdo you have proof it isnt?
A bit of a clarification (9:40): the Pythagoreans knew the earth was round, but it wasn't Pythagoras specifically who figured it out. We don't actually know who did.
First thing I've learned in cartography is how you can't have a map with accurate angular, linear and area representation.
This should ring a bell in your head
(possibly, without waiting for the echo)
and then they bash us for believing of what we learned in school. While all flatearthness is based on blindly believing some random dude on youtube.
I’m not this smart but I do know you can’t unwrap a globe . That’s enough to understand you logic compared to the Bs they flat earth people push
Mr. McKeegan: I just want to thank you for your consistently respectful and professional presentations. You don't know just how far I find it goes when I show your anti-Flat Earth (and anti-space exploration-denial) media to my Flat Earther relatives: when someone is patronizing, acrimonious, sanctimonious, mocking, belittling, or acting in any other way that really only appeals to people who already understand the globe model is a reality, and who just want a laugh at the expense of Flat Earthers, it utterly alienates those exact people we should be trying to reach. I find such approaches only further entrench Flat Earthers in their views, making it ever more difficult to get them to even be willing to meaningfully entertain alternate ideas. I am especially impressed when you answer vitriol and hate with a level head instead of replying in kind.
There are many opponents of the Flat Earth movement I unfortunately would never bother showing my family, as, due to their tone & attitude, the ears & eyes of my family would close & glaze over. Out would go the baby along with the bathwater, and I'd wind up in a position even further from where I wanted to be compared to when I started.
Your cool professionalism, and your entertaining and methodical personality on camera, are truly well-appreciated and highly valued. Your style is truly commendable, as are the effort & research you put into these uploads. Cheers, and keep up the good work!
Well said. For so many, the hatred and sarcasm from the Flerfs is returned in kind. It's natural to lash out at those who lash out at at you. I know that I have done that with the Trump cultists. Hopefully Dave won't succumb to that all to human retort.
How many of your family are flat earthers?
@@davebritton7648 I'd prefer to not say. I don't want to make this about my family, or shaming them. I just wanted to use a personal, true story to highlight & affirm the concrete, real-life impact Mr. McKeegan's work & style have. I know why they deny the globe model, and I don't even think the thought process that birthed it is itself necessarily unhealthy: on the contrary, I think the skepticism usually serves them well.
Thanks for understanding.
First video of yours I've ever seen, definitely subscribing very well articulated content
Thank you and welcome 😊
The globe-based maps we navigate by are constantly being checked and validated by anyone who travels a long distance. If these maps were wrong and part of some massive hoax, it would soon be spotted as journeys would take a lot longer or a lot quicker than the globe-based maps suggest.
I was laughing about this flerf nonsense with some friends the other day. Had a few beers around a little fire pit. We saw the ISS go by, it was a nice night.
And... earlier in the evening did you see Venus "standing still" in the western sky? It will move because of Earth's rotation, obviously. But it is SO bright and unmistakable right now.
Are you SURE you saw the ISS. It is pretty bright. But there are many MANY more LEO satellites up there. In an hour you could probably spot a dozen or so.
@@rickkwitkoski1976 Yeah we saw Venus too. It moved across the sky at the same rate as the stars.
I'm very confident it was the ISS, but no I can't be 100% sure. I've spotted the ISS many times, it's a little hobby of mine when I'm outside on a clear night. It was in the correct spot at the correct time to be the ISS.
In the U.S., the government’s USGS put out maps for each state. Each map was calibrated to a state’s central meridian which created some distortion the farther away from it you got and as a result, each state is slightly different from its neighbors. A lot of rural roads in flat farm country were laid out along meridian lines. I grew up near the Wisconsin/Illinois border which is due east/west. When these north/south roads meet at the state line, they all have the same zigzag pattern right along the border to match up. It always seems odd to drive down these straight roads and suddenly have to follow the zigzag.
Warren and Winslow?
Interesting never knew that before.
I’ve been on nominally east-west country roads in Illinois that are dead straight except that they have a little kink every so often (every mile I think) to correct for the Earth not being flat. Every surveyor knows we’re on something almost spherical…
this is so useful when you are on the lam from state police!
yeah, it would be simpler if the earth was flat LOL.
FTFE: "Your flat Earth map is based on the globe".
Flerfer: "And what is the globe based on? A grift."
The flerfer just admitted the flat Earth map is a grift.
A Flat Earth Map should be as accurate as a Blueprint. One inch on a blueprint will always equal a fixed amount of meters or feet. It doesn't matter if you're looking at it from the top or the sides.
The only reason the scales will change is when a Globe is being Projected onto a computer screen or paper.
Damn, that Atlas VPN transition was smooth. I pride myself on spotting the ad read a mile away, I'm basically a professional youtube user but you got me. Well played sir.
I'm not sure I'd call it smooth. He was wearing a different T-shirt in the ad.
I’d love to see how flatzoid would deal with the globe phenomenal of turning 90° right three times and coming back to the same place on a flat earth map…
That would mean crossing sea at some points, and they may start calling "tides" or "winds" as the reason it happened
They might even say to follow the compass to make a 90° turn, which doesn't make sense, but I can see them arguing for it
@@airiquelmeleroy They could try to do 100km*100km square.
Normally they claim it's impossible and that your sources are lying. Even when you show them. They flat out lie and deflect about it
@@XtreeM_FaiL "They could try to do 100km*100km square."
...using GPS wich they claim corrects the flat earth data to look like it's a globe.
Flerfs can and will insert a consipracy wherever they can, making the experiment pointless.
Yes, explain it, then just advise them not to take the first turn...
'Wait, you converted centimeters into kilometers? ARE YOU A WIZARD???'
Nathan Oakley
Ez multiply by 100×1,000 or 100,000
@@kittyn5222wouldn’t you need to divide centimetres by 100x1000 (or 100.000) instead of multiplying?
I find it very disturbing that some people really believe that the Earth is flat.
It's always cathartic to sit back and listen to some intelligence from Dave 👍
For that I watch the dog.
@@Isolder74 Rusty makes stronger arguments than any Flerfer.
Good stuff as always Dave. Give your dog extra ear scratches for us.
Seconded.
Thirded
Dave’s dog: “if the earth is round, how come I don’t fall off your lap? “.
If a FlatEarther does not believe distances between cities as stated in an Atlas, then ask them to produce the distancesx.
If they accept the distances in an atlas, get them to cut plastic straws to scale of the distances between various locations.
BNow get them to glue the ends together such that all the same locations are joined at the same point.
Now, ask them,. roughly speaking, what sort of shape have they made? A plate or a ball.
Now ask them to explain their answer
have a stopwatch ready to measure the speed as they flee
Wouldn't a map of flat earth be really simple to make if the earth was flat?
yup.
Yep. And trust me, I'm a cartographer.
Unless you project it onto a globe 🤔
@@markjacobs1086a flat earth is possible if it's a globe!!!
If flat earths got out of their basements and actually tried to map somewhere, then they'd have to perform more mental gymnastics to deny the flat earth map proves a globe.
Had no idea there were *THAT* many projections. Maybe a video on how they - a selected few important ones of them - came to be?
Basically take an orange and peel it, while keeping the peel in one big piece.
You now have a map projection.
@@SeanCrosser Yes, but... you still have to 'squash' the bits of peel down to get them flat. So you try peeling in thinner and thinner strips... Pretty soon you realize you just can't make it perfectly flat no matter how hard you try. lol 😊😊
OK, here you go! Lots of good explanations of projections in this video. ua-cam.com/video/sXgJSqRWOTo/v-deo.html
@@ChadFaragher Oh wow, cool. Thanks.
All the projections end up confusing for me due to the distortions, I always use a globe when I can.
As a cartographer, thank you for a brilliant and simple explanation of globe vs flat map distortion and how to go about checking and comparing. Well done Dave!
I gotta give it to you man. The smooth transition into your adds I mean pretty fucking good
I argue this one all the time as well. It's usually my initial argument. They usually go into arguing how the Gleason's map is accurate, but admit (or ignore) that it isn't and then try to BS their way through trying to explain why it isn't important, or try to argue that Gleason was a flerf and that somehow makes the map accurate, even though it isn't?
Flatzoid was completely out of his depth there. Almost felt sorry for him…almost
Failzoid is out of his depth in a puddle.
There is none because it's impossible to have something correct on a flat map, when in reality the earth is a globe, but they will explain this away too I'm guessing.
The most important problem with the projection at 12:00 is that the inconsistency is gradient, meaning that even within the same "box" you still have differences of scale from top to bottom; they are not merely inconsistent with each other, but also *within themselves.* These are not boxes, after all, they are just parallels.
If the earth were flat, we wouldn't need to apply varying scale factors to GPS for it to report proper ground distance. If I dont apply proper scale factor in my area, GPS will be off by 0.5 feet in just a 1/2 mile, when compared to ground based measurement (total station)
Another funny thing is that even the calculations for the distance and bearing between two coordinates requires you to take into account the spherical nature of earth and that is easily verifiable math.
The surest indication that the Mercator isn't an accurate model of a flat earth is that you can't sail across the Pacific Ocean. You'd fall off the edge. East and West must be connected. So the best they can do is say that the earth is a tube. But then the problem is that you can't sail or fly over the arctic, which people do. Once again, you'd fall off the edge. So now you need to connect the arctic. So now you've got most of a globe. The only thing left is that pesky Antarctica that they say we can't go over because of the ice wall or the international cabal or the Rothschilds or whatever. So congratulations, flat earthers- you've proven that earth is shaped like a phallus. And I think that's somehow fitting.
Ah, the Dickworld conundrum...
Very nice!! Great job. Very easy to understand.
I actually had someone tell they could prove the earth was flat because when you buy a map and unfold it the paper its printed on is flat. 🙄
I couldn't even respond to that.
😢😂
The paper isn't even flat. On an atomical scale, the printed images create small peaks and plateaus. 🤓
Take this person to a restaurant and see whether they try to eat the menu.
@@larrywest42 THIS!
They all say it. Nathan Oakley was recently asked for a FE map in his comments and his response was "all maps are flat".
It's truly bewildering that a grown adult refuses to recognise the difference between a 'flat map OF earth', and a 'flat earth map'.
Well, interestingly enough, there are no flat earth cartographers, so of course they dont have an accurate flat earth map
Even though a flat Earth cartographer would have it so much more easy
All flat earthers are cartographers. All flat earthers are every profession. They were BORN knowing everything.
@@hartmutholzgraefe right? Man, if the earth really was flat. Cartography would be so easy! Just a whole bunch of uniform grid squares. "Hey! Let's go meet up in Europe! Grid square alpha one five south east." But no, flat earthers are completely happy having triangles on their grid coordinates
@@toastthehostwiththemosttoa9922 and their youtube university diplomas
one day I hope there will be a flerf that has the guts to talk about navigation and not just run away when I corner them with a singular question.
They'll just repeat the same tired script they always do about curved adjacents and the like.
@@critthought2866and the second you call them on it. Poof, smokebomb
@@Alysm-Aviation Yup. Ninja vanish.
Speaking of navigation, flight routes don’t make sense on a ball. On a flat earth is a straight line between two points
@@Globeishoax Tell us again how that Santiago to Auckland flight works on your flat map?
Your videos are so good! easy to follow logic laid out nicely with no name calling or nastiness. Well done sir. This one combined with your Nathan Oakley one make me wonder how it is possible for there to be flat earthers at all anymore, but then I just realise they're just too far gone in their ignorance or are just con artists.
It's amazing how quickly conversations with flerfs shut down from something that should be the first thing they can present. Dave Farina is another debunker who has also been asking for a flat earth map for years even adding it to the top of his list of "10 Challenges for Flat Earthers." He even challenged David Weiss to present a model, and all that Weiss could do was petulant whining and "magnetic declination" among other priceless gems.
Aron Ra has a tale of his own (see "Diss the Disker" on his channel) when he was invited to debate Nathan Thompson. Aron would do it on one condition: Nathan would have a model and a map ready to present so that they could discuss it. The debate day comes, and Nathan openly conceded to not "subscribing to" either one even though he sent Aron a Polar Projection map - that old chestnut. This pathetic stunt ended the debate immediately as Aron scolded Thompson for going back on the agreement.
There's also the trilogy of "Level" presentations that doesn't dare broach the subject of maps. Instead, they opt to mocking the globe model and going off on other conspiracy theories and other things that appear to be ripped wholesale from various science fiction novels.
I have asked why there are so many other conspiracy theories being employed just to hold up that the Earth is flat when holding up a map would be so much easier and require a lot less effort. Of course, I already know the answer: there is no map, and the conspiracy cavalcade is all there is.
Now I'm not trying to defend Flat Earthers that fail to present a model, especially when they went into a debate claiming to have one and then back out, etc. That' just poor form, but I would like to suggest something. Regardless if the Earth is round or flat, you do realize that's simply possible that folks who believe in the FE theory, simply haven't had the means or methods to survey and properly analyze the Earth by-in-large to produce a model yet? Whereas something like this would take several million dollars, tons of equipment to do so properly, and tons of man hours and organizational effort by contractors and other companies that could support such an endeavor? Because in either model, the Earth is big, it's really big, so it's not so simple for a dude with a Nikon camera making youtube videos to exactly go out and observe the entire Earth.
How in fact would one person even do so anyways? You need backing, you need funding, you need a lot to even begin to test the theory to it's full extent. Sure, they can do microcosm guesses and tests, like horizon observations, or basing their conclusions off data provided by the current globe model, but it's a bit absurd for someone to expect one person or even a group of people with probably less than a few million dollars collectively to be able to go out and test the entire Earth. How the hell can one person survey the entire Earth on their own, that's just not possible.
I couldn't even do it to prove something about the globe, if I believed something was not accurate to the globe model and wanted to go prove it by using the entire globe. I would be faced with the same problem, I'm just one person, how the hell can I be expected to go survey an entire planet on my own, it's just not gonna happen. Doesn't make me right or wrong either, it just means I don't have the proper means to display my proof or evidence to it's full extent.
Sure, I can do some things, and one person is capable to do observations and tests on their own, not saying you can't do anything. But to fully test something like that is again going to take a lot of resources.
There is nothing wrong about asking questions or challenging the normal model as presented, because that's what science is. Science should never be, "settled" for anything. You always have new discoveries and information that can change our understanding of reality.
@@zefferss I agree that the science is never "settled." However, in order to refute a theory, you need a theory of your own that can explain everything the old model explains and more. The globe theory contains such an overwhelming preponderance of evidence that refuting it is going to be daunting.
This is the problem with the flat Earth hypothesis: the evidence is severely lacking and has been refuted for over 500 years. And how was this refuted? It was a team effort. That's the neat part of science: Nobody is alone in researching everything. Those of us that dive into the discipline are standing on the shoulders of those that came before us. We learn how our predecessors learned the science so that we can learn from them in turn.
Flerfers cannot think like that because they started with their conclusion first and worked backwards. They just parrot other flerfs much like that podcast David Weiss was on the other day where all they could do was Gish Gallop about evolution and other unrelated tripe.
That's why their models are baseless, and without a cohesive model with explanatory power and predictive power, it cannot be science, period.
@@zefferss You are obviously referring to any flat-earthers who DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPUTER OR THE INTERNET, right? Because nobody should take your hypothetical question seriously about any flunt who has access to a computer or the internet.
@@zefferss Eratosthenes was able to calculate earth's circumference in 200BC within a 1% margin of error. And you're telling me you need advance technology to prove the globe theory?
@@zefferss You are right when you say it's too much work for a person (or all flerfs combined) to survey the entire earth (or even just a continent) in a short period of time.
However, people have been surveying the earth for centuries or even longer. I think all that survey data combined would show what the earth looks like.
And if someone wants to argue that, yeah then they better have something to prove the contrary.
'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be a grid system: and there was a grid system. 4 And God saw the grid system, that it was good: and God divided the longitude from the latitude.
5 And the evening and the morning were the first day.'
The Flatzoid Version.
Flatzoid's version is "ïf you believe in a globe, you are calling God a liar".
I like this guy because he stays 100% free of that smug condescending demeanor and just calmly states the facts. That goes a long way when it comes to convincing people who might be flat earthers that are open to hearing the other side. Too many UA-camrs, like professor Dave and miniminuteman come off as extremely smug, with a strong hint of disrespect to the opposing side. So kudos to you my man. It seems you've mastered the ability to not let your ego get the best of you, which is no small feat.
BTW, I watched a documentary about flat earth a few years ago, and I will say it was quite convincing. Likely because I'm ignorant about a lot of the science regarding earth, so its not too hard to do lol. But I immediately watched videos debunking said documentary to get the other side. While I will say I was never a flatearther, but did I consider it as a possibility because I have an extremely open mind. I am what you would call a conspiracy theorist through and through. But after a few years of taking in all the info, I can firmly say I am now completely convinced that the earth is a globe. It just literally something that they can't lie about, its not possible IMO.
The thing with conspiracy theorists is they pride themselves of being open minded because they've rejected the status quo, but then they will literally start believing everything is a conspiracy, which in the end makes you just as close minded as those who only believe in the status quo lol. Its a bit of a trap that we need to look out for.
You have a logic fallacy here. You will never convince this morons of reality. What Professor Dave does is absolutely correct behaviour for the situation. 🤷
Your mind is too open.
If the smart and mean person is less convincing than the dumb and nice person, you are naive. Your mind isn't open to facts, it is open to manipulation.
You have a right to bully idiots that preach conspiracy theories. Their beliefs and actions cause real harm to real things in real life.
I could have written this comment almost word for word, that is how much I match your thinking and experience on this subject. I would go further on the fault of Professor Dave at showing extreme disdain to the point of being unwatchable.
flat earth proponents don't even understand that they can't use latitude and longitude to pinpoint a location on the map.
A lot of this shows how little some people, seemingly especially Flatzoid, actually know about charts & navigation, either celestial or 'plane sailing'.
For navigating over distances up to about 200nm, we use the Mercator projection. It has the great advantage that a constant compass course crosses each longitude line [ Great circle of longitude, going through the pole[s], the vertical up & down lines. The perpendicular lines of latitude are marked off on this scale ] at a constant angle. This allows you to carry out simple coastal navigational techniques. Just try doing the same thing on a Gleason AED chart, where each time you cross a line of longitude east or west, the course angle relative to the radial lines of longitude alters. That applies over whatever magnitude of distance you choose. A straight compass course on an AED chart is a curve, which would be a navigator's nightmare. On a Mercator projection, it is possible to measure distance, using the vertical, longitude scale. One minute of arc on the vertical scale = 1 nautical mile. This is defined, & constant at any latitude from 90 North to 90 South. It is a fundamental principle within astro nav, and one I use whenever I'm trying to analyze distances on the AED 'map'.
When you look at a typical Mercator nautical chart, say southern England, & the Channel over to France, and / or Belgium & Holland, the grid lines are rectilinear, not trapezoidal. This is a very slight inaccuracy, but then trying to do navigation on a trapezoidal chart would introduce inaccuracies of its own. Over these sorts of distances, the inaccuracy created is much smaller than those inherent in sailing, trying to hold a compass course & other effects.
Now, if you are crossing larger distances, the Mercator is not so good. The " rhumb line " course [ 'Great circle', shortest piece of string on a globe ] from say SW Ireland to New York on a Mercator map of the N Atlantic is an upwards curved course, going almost up to Greenland, before curving seemingly south again. There is another sort of projection, the gnomonic, which is used for trans - ocean planning. The AED is an example of a gnomonic chart, based upon the North Pole. But in principle, a gnomonic could be drawn centred upon any point on Earth. The great advantage of a gnomonic chart is that a rhumb line course is also a straight line. You can draw a straight line from Point 'A' to Point 'B', and measure the shortest possible distance. The down- side is that you then have to measure the relative angle at each significant radial line of longitude, to create a schedule that you can give to the helmsman, as a course to steer using his compass.
Whilst on the topic of charts, you generally don't use a chart of ANY sort to carry out astro nav. In theory, your sextant sight of an object gives you an angle, and from relatively simple maths it can be shown that that places you on a circle, of known radius around a position, which is the known Geographical Position [ GP ] of the body being observed. This is a trick you can do in coastal nav, with a lighthouse. If you know the height above MHWS [ listed on the chart ] , and can measure the distance with a sextant from the light itself to the high tide mark on the beach, using trig you can work out your distance away. There are even tables in the almanac, to save you trouble. Using a pair of compasses, a circle centred on the lighthouse includes all points where you must be, and crossing this with a hand bearing compass direction to the lighthouse pins down your position quite precisely. The same basic principle can apply in astro nav. I've seen at least one video where someone uses three reduced sights to create 3 'circles of position', and using a pair of compasses & model globe, plots them from their respective GPs, to indicate a 'position' adjacent to L. Michigan. However, that's not how we usually do it. We don't carry model globes around onboard as a rule, and the position found by this method, on any model globe that would be practical aboard would still be fairly useless, +/ - many miles in any direction. Nor can you do it on a flat sheet, with any form of map 'projection'. The typical distance between the GP of the body being observed, and your own position is measured in thousands, not hundreds of miles. Even a chart the size of a double bed sheet, & a chart table the size of a snooker table would be insufficient. As for the pair of compasses ? Instead, we resort to all sorts of 'tricks' to focus in on the small region where we're fairly certain that we actually are, and using blank paper, or graph paper make our own 'local' chart for the final workings, again resorting to the Mercator projection. ( I actually found that the workbooks I had been given for 'A' level Physics were excellent, since they alternated lined pages for the sight reduction process, with graph paper to plot them on. )
Even as a pre-teen, when my uncle was teaching me chart-reading and such (he was a commodore of a chapter of the USPS), he drilled into my head: "Use the dividers to measure out the distance, then take the dividers to either SIDE of the chart to measure how many minutes to get how many nautical miles. NEVER... EVER go to the top or bottom and measure off the distance." You'll never get the correct answer using the 'top' or 'bottom' minutes of longitude, always use the 'side'. He had just about all the US charts for the Great Lakes and we would plot his trips from Buffalo to Green Bay and back. Great memories working with him on such stuff. :)
And later, learned celestial nav and you're quite right. We start with an 'assumed position' and using sight reduction tables find the azimuth to the body. Based on where the body 'should' be if our position was correct, we can then move 'towards' or 'away' along the azimuth when our observed elevation is higher or lower than what it 'should have been at our assumed position'.
While the 'drawing three circles on the globe' is a great way to conceptualize the process, it just isn't practical at sea. ;)
@@mikefochtman7164 Yes, ,the Marcq St Hilaire, or 'intercept' method, which the sight reduction tables are based upon are very similarly analogous to the lighthouse example. If you 'assume' you are in a certain position, you could work out what the sextant angle SHOULD be, by trig. Then, if you carry out the measurement, and find that the angle is smaller, you are further away, and vice versa. In coastal navigation, you can use this to maintain a 'clearing distance', say to a headland, if there is a light on top, or even a clearly defined cliff edge, and the shoreline is visible. At a pinch, you could get away with 2 marks on the edge of a piece of card, held at arm's length. So long as the shore - clifftop angle is smaller [ fits inside the marks ] then you are a safe distance off. If the shoreline & clifftop gets outside the marks, you are too close ......
I've lived long enough and have come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time to argue with idiots.
You may prove yourself right, but they will never believe you; with you having wasted a better amount of time and life coming back to their same intransigence.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― Mark Twain
This is true. But it's fun watching them tie themselves in knots making excuses.
The reason they argue constantly against these idiots is not to convinve THEM, it is in the hope of convincing their Flock, most of whom are just honestly uneducated and led astray, and to keep more people from getting sucked in.
Take for example the live 'debate' Professor Dave just had against James Tour about Creationism/Origin of Life. He didn't do that to convince Tour, he knew full well that would never be on the table. He did it to show Tours Followers how terrible and flawed Tours reasoning was, and that his only counter was screaming over Dave's answers, and so maybe moving some of THEM to rethink their position. If i was even just a little bit undecided on the issue, watching that debate would immidiately convince me that Tour was not a Man to follow.
@@dyamonde9555
Idiots tend to flock together, and revel in their own stupidity. FK em. Make fun of them, but I doubt that any will give up the stupid easily.
FTFE: So, you're claiming nautical charts are an accurate flat earth map? The nautical charts you admit are based on the Mercator Projection which you admit is based on the globe?
Flatzoid: Look! A bunny! *pulls fire alarm and starts doing a highland jig*