How Muslims Defend the Practice of Concubinage. Concubines in Islam series, Part 3 | Dr. Shabir Ally
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- In part 3, Dr. Shabir Ally explores some of the apologetic discourses that Muslim scholars have engaged in. Muslims have defended the historical practice of concubinage. Dr. Shabir cautions that though it is true that there were advances in the rights of concubines in Muslim societies as compared to other societies, Muslims sometimes discuss concubinage in an ideal way, ignoring the reality on the ground. Part 4 of the series to be released on Friday!
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Yeah I just feel like consent was implied when I was reading this. You never see anything like “make her do this“ or “make her do that”
Your mom give you permission to go over a friends house. Certainly you can’t just brake in to friends house cause your mom said you could go over there. Your friend has to open the door and allow you in first…
That’s how I see it.
Agreed, because Islam is practiced as a whole, eg. love your brothers as you love yourself, do not go to the extreme as Allah does not love the extremists, believe and do good, etc.
This is a very good argument. I think I will use it.
yes and the principle of no harm. if you are not allowed to physically abuse a slave, and doing so to a serious degree means you have to free the slave, why would you be allowed to sexually force yourself on a slave?
@@ShadowSisThat's a very intelligent argument. Thanks for sharing
Forget the comparison with other societies, my question is why are there slaves supposed to be in Islam, and why is that her master can have sex with her without marriage? Is this good? Be honest
I'm really not sure how to feel...I mean even if they weren't as cruel as slavers in the trans atlantic slave trade, we are kind of still left with the problem at the root of slavery as a practice which is robbing others of their free will and agency...
Welcome to medieval times
AS MUSLIMS WE MUST N0T REJECT THIS VERSE 👇🏻
Say: “ 👉🏼 N0NE 👈🏼 in the heavens & the earth knows the 👉🏼 Ghaib ( Unseen ) 👈🏼 except 👉🏼 Allah👈🏼 nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected”( Quran 27 : 65 )
If you want to learn about Islam, do not listen to this channel.
@nasser exactly. Islam didn’t introduce concubinage or slavery, it was already there and it facilitated a transition to end of those practices
@@bf6724 And listen to who exactly, Salafis ?
How is concubinage allowed when Islam clearly does not allow adultery
Good point. Believe the difference is that if a child is born through adultery the male has no legal obligation to the mother and child, while if a child is born through concubinage the father is legally responsible for it and mother in all aspects
@@spyx5 yea but I was talking about prohibitions on the act of adultery
@@yasminkhan7839 Yes exactly, I'm saying its probably for the reason I mentioned before which that adultery is prohibited because it does not protect the mother and child where as concubinage does protect them
@@spyx5damn Islam and red pilled maga have very similar views on women.
Why is he talking about Jesus?
Trying to deflect.
When the Christians got political power after 325 ad with free practice of religion from Constantine the first Christian emperor of Rome, they banned slavery in the 4th century.
The caliphate practiced slavery in it's cruelest form until the early 20th century on those who would not accept their religion.
So they will only get freed if they convert to the religion because then they become brothers in faith? That is not technically forced conversion, but most people would’ve done anything to become free. So it is still coerced.
You are indeed a great scholar and thank you very much for discussing these sensitive issues which will certainly increase public knowledge.
Islam forbids prostitution(That is, renting women for sex)
But Islam allows selling slave women for sex.Though both are the same.??
It’s not the same concubines are permanent members of the house they have more rights then a prostitute a prostitute belongs to multiple men and a concubine doesn’t either way I don’t believe in keeping a concubine I find it weird personally
Muta marriage is prostitution
@@mansurhallaj8568 yea I know but even Shia people say it’s haram
@@yasminkhan7839 Shia people practicing this.
@@mansurhallaj8568 and sunnis do misyar, both are wrong
I commend you for attempting to tackle this issue. This is one of the many reasons I am no longer affiliated to an organized religion but I enjoy your commentary. 🙏
Linguistically speaking i dont believe in "organized" religion either because when humans organize something eventually it always goes down the drain. Quran tells alot of stories about civilisations rise and downfall. However when the Creator organized something it is perfect with angels and such who are perfectly balanced beings. But as humans we have to try. We can not be like angels its impossible and i think it might even be a bit dangerous as iblees was once a very pious being too. But we have to try to make something out of this life right? It's not rly that difficult either if you know the core belief but we have made and make it as diffucult as our own personalities will allow. The definition of a genius is to make difficult things easy but i think there is also a shadow side to smart people that they can get stuck in these big topics and if this process gets out to the masses which today is the norm, most people will understand less and get disoriented.
Pray > eat > sleep and repeat. Can't go wrong with that.. that is ofc if you're a little open minded ^^
Im curious of how many muslim are AWARE that concubinage practice can be HALAL in islam ?
none
Me and many knowledgeable Muslims
I don't understand . Isn't having sex with a slave considered Zinna? They are NOT married, so it's fornication which is HARARM.
its haram
that is true islam
So there is no difference between adultery and concubinage.. how can concubinage seen as a simple practice?
There is a big difference. You can have adultery with any woman. You cannot take any woman as a concubine
Good that you mentioned that this is an apologetic defense ... and the harsher (perceived?) reality will follow in next episode. I appreciate that you cover all angles (and that this series runs rather quickly ... 😁).
May Allah grants you good health, Dr. Shabir
Non of the concept told have actual authentic source it seemed like sabbir is trying to defend it by comparing with Christianity and if slavery was so comfortable then it should had different name altogether
The time may come when it will happen again due to some wars and Islamic ideals is the only honourable way to deal with it that time. As Islam has to guide us till the last day. Don’t jump to conclusions
Well as Slavery was practiced in Islam, it was indeed different and that's why you see Mamluk dynasty in India and Egypt. Similar thing can be said about Janissaries of Otthoman empire
So the main question is, was it lawful religiously or otherwise to rape the concubine? Since the slave own in theory does not need consent from the slave
When his followers didn’t know they asked The prophet and he not only approved but once had a revelation to create temporary marriages for his men to get around the marriage law
An interesting topic to be dealt with for most of the Muslims and even knowing non Muslims. Thanks 👍 a lot sheikh Shabir.
What is the meaning of the word baghya " بغيا " and albigha " البغاء"
in the Qur’an??
According to religious heritage means prostitution and fornication but according to my understanding, and the evidence from the Qur’an means seek or ask something
The linguistic root for the mentioned words is a bugha " بغى" that did not come in the Qur’an nor one time with the meaning of fornication and its derivatives, it came to bear the meanings of seek or ask something
verse 19.20
الايه [قالت أنى يكون لي غلام ولم يمسسني بشر ولم أك بغيا] مريم 20
the vers [qalt 'anaa yakun li ghulam walam yamsasni bashar walam 'ak bghaya] maryam 20
The vers [she said how come I have a boy ( ghulam) , and no human has touched me ( yamsasni ) and I have not ask or seek for this. Mary 20
when she said [no human has touched me] this includes touching in a legal or illegal manner or assaulting her to result in pregnancy and when she said [ and I have not ask or seek for this] and I did not ask or seek for this pregnancy or the boy.
Also see the consistency between the verses in the words of Mary and the words of God in response to the words of Mary
﴿قالت أنى يكون لي غلام ولم يمسسني بشر ولم أك بغياقال كذلك قال ربك هو علي هين ولنجعله آية للناس ورحمة منا وكان أمرا
مقضيا﴾
[Maryam: 20-21]
﴿qaalat 'anaa yakun li ghulam walam yamsasni bashar walam 'ak bighya
qal kdhlk qal rabuk hu ealaya hayin walinajealah ayatan lilnaas warahmatan minaa wakan 'amrana maqdia﴾ [Maryam: 20-21]
The vers [she said how come I have a boy , and no human has touched me and I have not ask or seek for this. [Maryam: 20]
said as well as Your Lord said
this is easy upon me , and we will make him a sign for people and a mercy from us. And that was decided
[Maryam: 21]
when she said
"how come I have a boy , and no human has touched me"
The Lord Answered
"this is easy upon me , and will make him a sign for people"
also when she said
"and I have not ask or seek for this"
The Lord Answered
"And that was decided"
now you can see clearly the consistency between the verses
I tried my best to translate from Arabic to English but I think and hope the picture is clear
Also the word " البغاء "albigha in the next verse ,It does not mean fornication or prostitution, but rather means those ask or seek to marriage .
According to my understanding Surat Al-Nur, verses 32 and 33, speaks about marriage, and to encourage , motivate and helping unmarried to get married but not forced them to get marriage for your own benefit
this is my understanding there is on prostitution it is all about marriage
﴿وَأَنكِحُوا الأَيامى مِنكُم وَالصّالِحينَ مِن عِبادِكُم وَإِمائِكُم إِن يَكونوا فُقَراءَ يُغنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضلِهِ وَاللَّهُ واسِعٌ عَليمٌ﴾ [An-Nûr: 32]
And marries ( urge upon marriage ) the unmarried among you and the righteous from your Eibad and your Emaa (male and female under your care and supervision ) . If they are poor, Allāh will enrich them from His bounty, and Allāh is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
﴿وَليَستَعفِفِ الَّذينَ لا يَجِدونَ نِكاحًا حَتّى يُغنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضلِهِ وَالَّذينَ يَبتَغونَ الكِتابَ مِمّا مَلَكَت أَيمانُكُم فَكاتِبوهُم إِن عَلِمتُم فيهِم خَيرًا وَآتوهُم مِن مالِ اللَّهِ الَّذي آتاكُم وَلا تُكرِهوا فَتَياتِكُم عَلَى البِغاءِ إِن أَرَدنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبتَغوا عَرَضَ الحَياةِ الدُّنيا وَمَن يُكرِههُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِن بَعدِ إِكراهِهِنَّ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ﴾ [An-Nûr: 33]
walyastaefif ( abstain from sexual relations ) those who cannot find means for marrage until Allāh enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek keytab (marriage contract) from among whom your right hands possess ( right hands possess meaning those who under your care and supervision )then katibohm (than make marriage contract) with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allāh which He has given you ,but do not compel your girls If they wanted to be fortified ( meaning they don't want to marry those that came to make the marriage contract with her ) to seek for yourself temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone compel them ( Perhaps the girl does not want to marry because of his disability, fear, or .... in the girl herself, in this case, the guardian may force her to marry in the interest of the girl, not in the interest of the guardian. ), then ,Allāh after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful
Um sorry no matter how many times you say it was like a marriage , it was not a marriage as defined by Islam. Ie it was adultery even embarrassingly for a polygamist 🤦🏻♂️. Oh but it's ok because they had some rights, oh wait not as much rights as the wives.
I also heard that a Muslim man at the time is not required to tell the 1st wife about a second wife?
Biblical examples are Abraham's maidservant Haggar, and of course Solomon with his plethora of concubines. These were not sex slaves, as many perverted minds might venture to believe, but they were servants taking refuge in his court, or those his "right hand possessed." The modern term 'slavery' has negative connotations which means the individual was often mistreated, over worked and demeaned. Concubines and servants were often treated well and many were set free after the revelation of the Quran revealed the charity and reward for setting free slaves and giving them equal status in normal society.
What non-sense. Their primary usage was for sexual pleasure. There is Tons of fiqh books on the topic where a buyer is allowed to touch a slave girls body parts if He intends to buy her as an act of inspection before purchasing. They were allowed to strip them naked from head to toe
Please stop using the word slavery, the proper term is "Prisoner of War"
It is slavery... Let that sink in!
First you should read all bhukhari hadith & fiqh about it
@@NRFP you again fake Muslim
@@ERASE-pc7uvI am from bengali muslim family. don't comment without knowing about anyone. it is hard to take the truth
@@NRFP you are a fake Muslim. You Ignored my reply to your problem in previous video so you don’t want to learn just want to cause hate. If you are a Muslim why do you copy and paste the same messages in every video. You wrote Allah with a small ‘a’ in previous videos, Muslims don’t do that out of respect. Do you think we are idiots who don’t understand your intentions?
Allah is injustice with war captive non muslim women. I compelled to say this after reading Bukhari hadith and fiqh. they must not be in any commodity..but Islam has allowed them to be sell and buy as product. that is sad. the security of women prisoners of war could have been arranged differently. There was no need to do that. i am a muslim boy but sorry to say that. should not sell & buy them like product
Allah is not injustice.Humans are injustice.Where does it say you can sell and buy like products
Bible says "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and respect as you obey Jesus (Ephesians 6:5)
@@funyticktockfoods Please read bhukhari hadith & fiqh about it
@@Subxanallah1110 Right
@@NRFP fake Muslim. Ignore him
Truely you are a great scholar and very good speaker in such a very sensitive discussion about such a topic. I really do appreciate you.
My view is that Islam did not per se condone slavery / concubinage. I'm not aware if there is a direct verse in the Quran clearly *endorsing* such things.
On the conrary, the Quran has verses encouraging the freeing of slaves.
Slavery is mentioned because during the older days, slavery is already practised by the Arabs.. ie it came before Islam.
Islam prescribes the freeing of a slave for the expiation of a certain sin.
Thus, the general notion in the Quran did not endorse slavery, it actually promotes ending of slavery.
The Quran has guidelines on how to treat slaves. A true objective arbiter of moral truth would just say that slavery is illegal full stop.
Also it doesn't help that the man who is out on a pedestal as the most moral man that ever lived in Muhammad held concubines, married to a 6 year old etc. And through time here have been historically figures who refused to partake in bad cultural practices to set examples like slave abolitionists in America when slavery was still popular.
Muhammad can't even clear that level. You'd think he best representation of a man practicing the moral teaching of Islam to follow for the rest of time could refuse to do these practices himself just to set an example.
Here is the word of God, which according to the Bible and the Quran is Jesus.27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e](AG) 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.(AH) 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble,(AI) gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. "
Would you like to answer a question Dr Shabir? Where does Allah or Mohamad said that this practice of having concubine or slaves( captives of war? should exist just in the older times, and now is forbitten? It is there in the Quran any Surahs that abrogat the slavery, jizia, or having concubine ? And if there is not such thing, why Muslims should not practice all those things? Just because the time has changed, and we are living in a different society? Do you have to listen as a Muslim the rules imposed by society or by Allah?
Thank you.
I absolutely love how Dr. Shabir is humble and takes time to explain things clearly. Unlike other Muslim preachers that just yell at their audience and are overly confident.
Were sexual relations allowed with polytheistic concubines in islam and were they allowed to practice their religion
Did he really just try to say Jesus may of been married 🤦🏻♂️
What’s there to condemn? If the slaves weren’t raped then there’s nothing wrong with it. Even today, anyone can be your concubine if they want to be.
So mulsim women can be concubines if they choose to be?
@@Zoozy77 any women
@@FahimusAlimus INTERESTING.
What makes you so sure they were not raped ?
@@jamieammar6131 I’m sure many were, but they weren’t allowed to be. Many people do wrong things.
I'd love for Dr. Shabir to touch on what was done about the children who were conceived in concubinage; are they cared for and in any way treated like the blood children of those who fathered them? Surely there had to have been perhaps many such conceptions. Also, how did such relationships affect a freed slave woman's chances of getting married in such a culture of virgins being preferred and many cases a must?
Concubines who were impregnated became permanent members of the family as Ummat al Walad. Their children would he born free and be taken care of by the master.
@@thesomalistrawhat Thanks, brother! To that which you say, I'm wondering if these practices were performed under the umbrella of being a muta (temporary marriage) including all related benefits?
@@nicholassmith7268You wanna tell me about aliens and the shape of the earth too, dude?
Why would it new religion ibrahim and should we expect
Many of the early US patriots practiced concubinage. Thomas Jefferson took Sally Hemming as a concubine. White Christian slave owners practiced concubinage widespread. Most African Americans have European blood because slave owners had their ancestors as concubines.
True but neither Thomas Jefferson nor American slave owners claimed to be prophets.
@@nelsoncifuentes575 the prophet Solomon had concubines.
@@hassanabdur-rahman1559
solomon was not a prophet
If the verses are still valid in the Quran,why can't we just do in modern days. I think Quran is the guidance of Muslims.
Cause concubinage no longer exists in this world. It was already abolished long longg time like 1000 years ago. So humans can't have or be concubines now
Love the Showwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Greetings I think another name for slave in Islam is a second-class servant. A servant with lesser right .Murziq Etti
Salaamun Alayikum
Is there any Ayat in the Quran that means Concubinage?
Alks. In my humble opinion there is not. The only term that is mentioned is what your right hands possesses(which I believe may mean someone who is committed by oath)
What I believe brother Ally is talking about is something historical - as in things that we’re practiced in prophet Muhammad’s society during his time. The Quran in no way shape or form endorses slavery or opens a door to allow slavery, but rather the total opposite..
Problem is now in modern islam a man is considered a criminal for his natural instonct to have many women. Even tho the prophet had 14 wives and concubines most muslim men are shamed for wanting more than 1. In the past you could just buy women or capture them. Now if a woman freely decides to be with you without marriage, its haraam. Make it make sense.
The question is .. Was that right then?
@@Kitiwake the question of slavery being right is subjective. I would argue it's natural from a biological standpoint. Put 10 men and 10 women on an uninhabited island. The weaker ones will end up as slaves or subjects.
Why are Man natural instinct protected while Woman natural instinct are prohibited
This is not a natural instinct of men. Not every prophet had multiple partners and may I add, many instincts need to be disciplined, this is one of them.
@A.S0123 all healthy men with normal testosterone have a biological imperative encoded in their dna to mate with as many mates as possible. Just like women are biologically designed to find one mate. They can have one child per year. Men can have close to infinite. It's biology. U can be disciplined about it but u can't deny ur own nature.
My reckoning on this issue is..
Thr were thousands of women who left out without any support after the war was over... And perhaps they lost thr lands and houses to the winning party... No the losing party would be in vulnerable position... As of men are concerned..they're more muscular then women so prolly they were used for mechanical works.. Now the question was remained for female captives.. So i think they were distributed as slaves by giving a permission to have sex with them ofcourse it wasn't ethical as of today's opinion... But they mi8 have thought that being a concubine is better than dying of hunger and thirst... Coz not many men would hire them as thr slaves for household chores coz they already had thr wives to that for them... So maybe this was kind of offer so that they can atleast provide food and shelter to them.. This is my view over this issue!!!..
terrible view
@@kashmirichai123 whatever
Alhumdulilah I wish I had so much of knowledge to explain
There are wisdom behine that
Allah couldn’t prevent it it’s Zina😂
Abu Dharr narrated, “Once I was with the Prophet riding a donkey on which there was a saddle or a (piece of) velvet. That was at sunset. He said to me, ‘O Abu Dharr, do you know where this (sun) sets?’ I said, ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said, ‘It sets in a spring of murky water, (then) it goes and prostrates before its Lord, the Exalted in Might and the Ever-Majestic, under the Throne. And when it is time to go out, Allah allows it to go out and thus it rises. But, when He wants to make it rise where it sets, He locks it up. The sun will then say, “O my Lord, I have a long distance to run.” Allah will say, “Rise where you have set.” That (will take place) when no (disbelieving) soul will get any good by believing then.’” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 21459 al-Risala ed.)🤪😁😁😁🤣🤣🤣🤣
I encourage you to watch Dr. Shabir Ally’s lecture on fake Hadith.
@@hayatullahrahmatzai9839 ,Shabir Ally is the greatest conman and deceiver. He is scared to debate with Christian Prince.🤪🤪🤪
@@godlessbeliever4817 the Hadith that you have quoted is not even authentic
Fake hadith
In the current day battle of ideas, hearts and minds, between Islam and Christianity. Islam has the advantage over Christianity in terms of theology and monotheism, but I do think Christianity has the advantage over Islam in terms of morality and ethics. This is why whenever I see a polemical debate between a Muslim and a Christian, the Muslim will attack Christianity's concept of the Trinity, whereas the Christian will attack Islam's ethics and morals with particular regard to what the Prophet Muhammad did and what the Quran approves and advocates.
I beg to differ . I used to assume that until i read the bible . Every moral or ethical attack by christian can be found in much worse form in the bible . Whether its killing , slavery or concubine .
@@takhtar4877 Bible isn’t inmoral because tells with no censorship human sinful nature, the word of God is true and shows the judgment of God Ezekiel 11:21: "But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD." God in His word portrayed how humans are and have done, Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:10: "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." Matthew 19:25-26: "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Isaiah 53:6-7,11: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. ... He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." Jesus is the only hope you have, your religious lifestyle won’t save you before God for one reason. Psalm 143:2: "And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified." David knew he and any human could be before God and be justified, be saved by Jesus Christ means He saves us from the wrath of God and his judgment, that judgment Muslims and religious like Catholics are waiting is a judgment of condemnation, everyone will be punish with eternal damnation. Revelation 20:11,14-15: "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. ... And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." By faith in Jesus Christ you receive salvation from the wrath of God, God offers everlasting life by grace, we don’t deserve heaven but hell, that’s grace. Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." John 12:47-48: "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
Real problem is rejection of God's commandments. Those who reject the Quran become criminals of God and thus worthy of punishment.
Dr. Ally makes islam seem so rational ... and then comments like yours show us why Islam is no religion of peace and why humans should avoid it if they value freedom.
@@calonstanni Freedom to do what?
I wonder how will a person like you face God's retribution in the afterlife. Especially those who will be assigned to Hell fire :(
@@TheMuslimImam There no force for reigion on non muslim. its say sura bakara. but can not remember the verse
Concubinage is marriage.
Allah is injustice with war captive non muslim women. I compelled to say this after reading Bukhari hadith and fiqh. they must not be in any commodity..but Islam has allowed them to be sell and buy as product. that is sad. the security of women prisoners of war could have been arranged differently. There was no need to do that. i am a muslim boy but sorry to say that. should not sell & buy them like product
God of the Bible approves selling and buying slaves (Leviticus 25:44-46)
Bible says "When a man strikes his slave with a rod.....if the slave survives a day or two even if he dies later, the slaveholder isn't to be avenged, for the slave is his money (Exodus 21:20-21)
@@Subxanallah1110 Right just disgusting
@@Subxanallah1110 Right
Don’t go to war with Muslims then. The ones bought were generally bought to be freed. Even if not her conditioned approved under a Muslim than non-Muslim.