Powering Hornby Trains With A Scooter Motor & Dangerous Flywheel
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Another experiment today - can I simulate model train inertia mechanically?
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I think it may just be slightly safer to just turn my gaugemaster controller knob slowly
Yes, that certainly would be safer and easier! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@TheGreenLightbulb Hi there, the most basic Gaugemaster Combi Single-track controller can be found on Rails of Sheffield for just under £40
"I do fear for my lower body"
Sam, 2020
haha!! xD
OOH ME LUCKY CHARMS
yes heaven above dont use a saw blade. if you haven't got a plate then its best to not improvise.
This is going to be a good video....
Big motors, big flywheels, lumps of metal rotating at crazy speeds - my electronics engineer inside me is interested.
I think if you were able to have a more permanent setup (maybe with the motor hidden in a cupboard) with a less dodgy and more permanent flywheel, this might actually be more cost effective on smaller layouts instead of buying a really expensive inertia controller.
I can see where people could go with this Sam - sometimes experiments have to be crazy to start with to find something useful out.
Well done once again, great video.
haha thank you - it seemed like a good thing to do! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Another brilliant experiment. Well done!!
Yes like usual
@@Veneno2911 dang, nice profile Pic.
Thanks so much mate!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam : Do not try this at home.
Also Sam : Begins to try it at home
haha yeah - I knew the risks and how to mitigate them ;)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I suggest that next time you try something like this, you wear some goggles.
@@johneshort Agreed
@@SamsTrains Cover it in a wood box
"do not try this at home"
me building a 1/2 scale version of the mallard about to power it with a V8 big block: what?
haha!! That sounds epic!! :D
lol
Keep us updated!!!
Don't forget the supercharger 🌝
I know! Get a infinity stone and put it in your train controller.
Honestly, this is a really cool experiment! It's amazing how the machine can simulate realistic locomotive operation on a small(ish) scale! If there was a way to make this into a professional project and refine the design to get rid of the safety hazards, it'd be really cool to see in action on a standard layout.
Thank you!! I thought it was pretty cool too - glad you enjoyed it! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You only need to use a DCC decoder.
A safer way I have found is to install super capacitors in the locomotives it provides a lovely affect plus it allows smaller locomotive like a small 0-4-0 locomotives to pass over dead spots (Express points) without even stuttering.
Yeah that sounds cool! Are super caps not sensitive to polarity then?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@voltare2amstereo Reverse parallel would make them useless. Polarized capacitors in antiseries behave like non polarized, so this is a proper way to do it.
Sam: “It’s experiment time again”
Fire department: *aw s###, here we go again*
haha, it’s a miracle they’ve never had to be called, lol!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
3:05 That’s like a dart board almost, LOL! 😂
haha I know - I was scared when I saw that! xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
FANTASTIC, SAM ! - 100W, 24V DC motor, 1 Amp from controller. Good HARDWARE match. A better/Safer flywheel and a protective cover and you have a switch in/out Acceleration / Deceleration feature ! Your BEST Tech Video EVER !
Sam's trains: Indexed itself in the wall me: pushes a bed into the wall* me: what it didn't go through the wall
Its so amazing that this worked, well done!
haha me too, thank you! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Experimentation leads to explosions
-Einstein or something
haha I guess he was right! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
SAM! You are learning "Regenitive Braking" or "Dynamic Braking"... When trains go downhill, diesel locomotives go into "Dynamic Braking" to turn the big generator/alternator into a load-consumer instead of a power generator and that power goes into the batteries and electronic grid which is then cooled off by the large fan(s); Electric trains in the same manner reroute that power back into the lines held by the catenary system-for other electric trains going up-hill. I'm proud of you! John BC, Canada
Cheers John - yeah that's exactly right, the very same thing!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This gives me similar vibes to another UA-camr called I Did A Thing. Risking his safety with a machine for entertainment. I would never do this. Thank you so much Sam. You are very dedicated.
Hypothesis: train explodes and room catches on fire
haha, it was very possible! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam, I thought about this for a few minutes and I think you could do a similar thing without the dangerous spinning metal flying around. Just get a large inductor and connect it in series between the controller and the rails. That would take care of gradual acceleration. Then if you put a diode across the controller's output it would allow the inductor to continue powering the train when you shut the controller off, for gradual braking. The only downside with the diode is it only allows forward movement (it'll short-circuit the controller in reverse) but you can put a simple reversing switch between the inductor and the rails and use that for reverse.
I have no idea how big an inductor you'd need or how much it would cost. It might be cheaper to make your own by wrapping thousands of coils of wire around an iron bar? Anyway I'd be interested in seeing how a system like that would perform alongside the flywheel setup. Maybe for your next experiment?
I was thinking the same thing! I don't think the inductor will need to be excessively big. In fact I wonder why manufacturers haven't done analog controllers with this kind of function built-in
DC based momentum controllers have been around since the mid 1960s. From specialist upmarket model train control makers, not the train set makers. Lately most development has been in DCC to at least replicate what the best DC controllers did.
@@johnd8892 Good info! I'll look them up since my "layout" is just EZ track loop and there's no point to do DCC.
@@zujiahuang8454 a Google search for
model railway inertia momentum controllers. Should be a good starting point to research these inertia and braking controllers for DC further.
@@johnd8892 Thanks!
Analog controller inertia devices were the subject of tons of articles in Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsmen back in the day. The best mechanical systems were all pairs of motors with a flywheel. The controller was on 1 motor, flywheel in the middle, 2nd motor was a generator for track power. This meant that the power on the track was always directly related to flywheel speed. In the parallel setup Sam shows the flywheel and locomotive are fighting over power from the controller so the results aren't as good.
Yeah I've heard about that - that sounds like a much better way to do it - I do like the idea of physical flywheels, but no reason to have them as big and silly as mine! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is actually a very basic version of what most Hybrid/Electric cars use. It’s basically regenerative braking. Since when you cut power the motors become a generator and take the kinetic energy created from the inertia of the car moving and turn it back into electricity to charge the battery.
"do not try this at home"
naw but i had a spare scooter motor!
just joking obviously
haha!! You never know! ;D
Shyloh W needs to send in a new picture now!! :-)
haha probably!! xD
@@SamsTrains someone call me?
1:30 "It's not Dangerous, It's not video worthy!!" What fun would DCC be? That's funny.
haha exactly! ;D
Interesting experiment. You can physically see what happens when the inertia is controlled electronically.
Cheers Sam. Another brilliant video.
Thanks Robert, yeah that's very true actually! Cheers mate! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam trains: it's a scooter motor me: buys a electric scooter motor me: kinda different
What you didn’t see on camera was the plate on the top flying off through Sam’s ceiling, flying down south, crashing into Buckingham palace or Windsor castle and lands in the Queens breakfast. Then she says “one did not wish for another plate on ones plate “, “I also didn’t want any magnet things on it”
haha what on earth made you think of that!??!? :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is so interesting, I have always loved trains yet never found any channels like yours until just now. Well done on the great vid!
Thanks so much - glad to have you aboard! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi, Sam. Many articles appeared in the model railway press in late 1950's/early 1960s using two ordinary model loco motors, both onboard the loco. They were connected the same way as yours, and, if I can remember that far back, the results were very similar. it was known as the "Free Motor System".
Tri-ang actually did make a version of their R55 diesel with a free motor installed. Oscar Paisley may have shown it.
Yeah I've heard about that - never knew Tri-ang did one though - very interesting stuff!! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Google search for
triang r55 diesel noise sound
This should show the excellent Weebly site that has photos. Should explain the two motors are connected in series as I recall. To replicate does not need a now rare XO4 but just a similar current characteristic motor. Short lived due to making an old inaccurate model near 10% dearer. Marketed as a sound system as this was simpler to explain. Be interested to see how effective it is compared to standard. May have been mistaken thinking I saw it on UA-cam.
It’s great how it makes small locomotives move like the real thing!-Ben
Thanks Ben! Glad you thought that was cool! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I knew my advice on wheel balancing weights would be taken on board, not in this way though!!! 😂😂😂 great video. Lots of fun!!
haha I know!! It's amazing the number of uses I've found for them actually, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
currently writing a college essay for my mechanics course and part of it is energy generation/rectification/regulation (charging) in an alternator system. Quite nice to visually see the principle of energy generation through a spinning motor. I'm actually surprised this worked as well as it did. Nice one. If you have a multi-meter you could monitor the voltage drop as the rotor slows down and see the cut off point.
It makes me wonder if something like this could be simulated, at least in the acceleration stage, with a restrictive consumer inline (that isn't the big spinning flywheel) that could realistically and *safely* be used. For the deceleration could something like a capacitive discharge work? So many ideas could be opened up with this, what a cool experiment, thankyou for sharing!
Thanks Jesse! Yes I was quite impressed with how well it worked too! What I'd really like to do is buy an Oscilloscope and watch the waveform coming out of the motor - that'd be very interesting! Yes that's a good point - I wonder?!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have a Tech II Locomotion 2500 controller and it has settings you can use for gradual speeding up and braking. Pretty cool IMO the way you rigged it up.
Ooh cool, I’ll have to look those up! Thanks mate, glad you liked it! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains My pleasure Sam, love your videos
The difference between genius and insanity is measured only by success. This video sits very firmly on the dividing line between the 2.
haha I don't know about that mate, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I mean the idea itself is genius, however the execution is pure insanity!
No problem, always fun to watch, keep up the good work. :)
I designed and built a controller that does exactly this electronically. I made a pwm controller with a 555 timer, opamp and mosfet. I used a capacitor on the output of the pot that worked as a potential divider - this controlled the pwm duty cycle. This effectively simulated inertia. I'll have to dig out the circuit! Using on an n gauge layout and it's much more realistic than a normal controller. As I built it, I can also control the frequency which is good.
Very clever stuff Tony - I like the sound of that - simple but elegant and effective! Much safer than my approach too! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
When I was a boy I had a vintage wind-up gramophone. It had a very heavy platter - much heavier than your plate, but it was one solid piece of metal with no weights to fly off! I used to disable the regulator, wind it up and release the brake, and the turntable would reach a phenomenal speed! I tried your experiment of powering the turntable with a 12volt motor, but that was nothing like the speed which could be achieved with the clockwork mechanism! So, if you want to do this experiment, get an old wind-up gramophone from eBay!
haha that sounds very intriguing - I'll have to look out for one of those! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam has gone off his rocker.
It's finally happened! ;D
You have basically built a flywheel UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). These things are key component in data center power supplies (unlike diesel generators, they do switches on instantanely, and dont costs as much as batteries), and are also used on real railways electric systems, wired as you've done it, leveling loads in overhead wires between tractive effort and regenerative braking.
Are they really? I had no idea they were used there too - I know they're used in power stations too, while supplies are changed over!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I saw this in you experiments category and then saw in the title "powering hornby trains with a scooter motor". Then i saw Mallard in the thumbnail and im like. ''oh yea this is going to be great''. Great video as well. Love your content. 😁
- James
haha thanks James - really glad you liked it! :3
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That was fascinating Sam, many thanks. Science was never that interesting in my school days!
haha thanks Mike, glad you enjoyed it! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is also how dynamic or regenerative braking works, great demonstration really loved it
Yes absolutely right - I could do another experiment on that maybe!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This video is awesome and also a funny one I can't stop laughing when I see a diner plate and I was blown away on how that thing works brilliant experiment!
haha thank you - yeah it was a bit sketchy, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam's mum... "Sorry son, no supper for you tonight; I cannot find my best China plate!"
Back to the experiment Sam, your research tells me that if you were able to add all those extra weights, (to your mum's best China plate) it would take even longer to speed up and conversely slow down, thus improving the look of the slow acceleration and enhancing a much slower looking brake application.
We'll make a driver out of you yet mukka! Stay safe. Gary
haha luckily she doesn't know about this - though I bought the plates especially, she still wouldn't be pleased to know good plates were used for something like this!! Yes indeed - the more weight, the more kinetic energy stored per unit speed! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It these kinda funny shenanigans are why I love watching your videos. Keep up the great work Sam
haha thank you!! Glad you liked it! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
Sam your ideas are getting crazier and crazier all the time
haha thank you, I'll take that as a compliment! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
sam you utter madlad.. I dont know if I should laugh my ass off or cry at the sheer insanity that is your contraption
haha, I'd say both is fine! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Coincidentally, I've just recently renewed my interest in the old Top Gear episodes. (Likely because I just discovered James May's "Sarnies from the Seventies" collection), and this is the most Top-Gear-esque video of yours I've seen.
haha yeah I like Sarnies from the Seventies too - funny stuff! Yeah I see what you mean! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
What a very interesting experiment. I love the DIY analogue hack nature of this device! Sam will be building two more soon, one for every main line ;-)
haha thanks very much, I don’t think I’ll be building any more though! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Really interesting concept that, and as a bonus it worked too. Even learned something new about motors. Really interesting to watch.
Thanks a lot Dom! Really glad you enjoyed it! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Your experiment videos are quite interesting Sam. I love the creative ideas you make for your trains.
Thanks very much - glad to hear that, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Really good practical experiment! Also shows why a diesel loco engine is quite inefficient ... as you need a generator to convert diesel to electrical energy, then you have motors to convert the electrical energy to kinetic energy.
Thanks mate, yeah you’re dead right actually!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey sam, this was a great idea im preatty sure you can get atcually flywheels online but in other words thus is awesome
An excellent experiment Sam, you would make a super Physics teacher explaining this phenomenon of inertia.
Well done!!
haha thanks so much mate! :D
Sam: "Don't try this at home!"
Everybody: "Mum, can we borrow Grandads scooter?"
haha!! xD
if you want ultra realisim in model form..then hornbys live steam was brilliant..is brilliant...as close to the real thing you can get but in model form...steam..pressure...smell...superb...interesting video...good stuff!
Yeah I've heard a lot about that - would be amazing to get my hands on some of it! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is actually a fun great lil experiment.. seriously i'm impressed. Hell yeah sam.
haha thanks mate, glad you liked it! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
Oh God you and your experiments 😂best way to end a Monday. 🙂🙂
haha thank you - and maybe that too! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That worked far better than I expected, well done Sam!
Of course, I wouldn't dream of trying anything like that.
[searches through junk box for a big electric motor]
Cheers! A very entertaining experiment👍
Yeah me too! Uh oh - sounds worrying!! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hilarious. I think you're still a boy at heart, Sam. Reminds me of when we as boys filled up cans with lids from the domestic gas tap and set fire to them with a pleasing bang. Luckily no injuries or damage resulted but needless to say Mum and Dad were not amused😂
That is a good idea and fascinating experiment!
Thanks so much Paul! :D
That actually looks really good. You might well have found a market for something there. With some development that might well be an idea with some potential. The Southern Region actually did use a similar idea in their DC electric locos, the incoming line voltage drove a motor that spun a flywheel, the output from which drove the motors, so there was a steady output and it didn't cut out abruptly when it passed over gaps in the live rial and so on.
Thanks mate! Yeah maybe - though I think we've moved on too far with DCC for this to even be considered - I might try to make a neater version some time though! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The Gaugemaster controller with simulator on it, works like that. You then have a brake if you need to stop quick. Also, you don't have a spinning plate near you. Good experiment, though. Proves that inertia can make a realistic loco control.
Yeah you’re right, a much better system than mine obviously! Thanks for the comment,
Sam :)
The lunny did it! He smashed momentum down to mere model train size!
haha! ;D
And today folks another episode of Sam risking the destruction of his locos.
haha pretty much! ;D
How to identify a really good Sam's Trains video: It starts with the disclaimer, "Do not try this at home."
An awesome experiment Sam ..one of your best
haha thanks very much David! :D
Ahh my electrical engineering days bringing back bad memories, I'd never have thought about doing this but it's brilliant. Did you know, Broadway Limited locos come with "momentum" programmed into the decoders?
I should clarify I mean that it works on DC as well. Or at least on two of mine, I haven't been able to test my latest
haha thanks so much Greg! No I never knew that - I'd love to see that working! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow! This is an awesome video! Great work!
Thanks so much mate!! :D
@@SamsTrains Thanks For Watching! -Sam :)
A fascinating experiment Sam....very well presented...Bob
Thanks a lot Bob, appreciate it mate! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam is now the Big Clive of model trains. 🏋🏼♀️ 😃
haha I can only dream of being that skilled!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is very satisfying and great job it works really well.
Thanks so much, glad you liked it! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
wow, this idea is amazing
also you should try using massive capacitors as an electrical flywheel and test how that works!
haha thank you! That'd be awesome, I've wondered about that! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That’s so extreme. I love it.
haha thank you! :D
Sam's mechanical DCC decoder, Part 1.
Next: 256 relays for the loc addresses.
haha exactly!! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice experiment Sam thank you
Thank you, glad you liked it! :D
I was alarmed at the prospect of this being the last ever Sam's Trains episode for a minute there,
haha, it's always a possibility!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
this is verry interesting
but i like it
btw i got my hornby terrier today in sr green and i did not realise how small it actually is
Thank you! yes it is amazing how tiny they are!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
What a good "alternative" to any form of command system! No, in all seriousness it is really a good practical way of controlling the current in a realistic way. It is very similar to one of the features used on Lionel O gauge products. It is called the variable ash pan glow effect, and as the name states, it is a light feature for the ash pan. The variable part is not controlled by a program or chip but instead by its power. This is how it works, when the locomotive is set in motion the motor spins and creates a small amount of power, similar to your "cough" metal flinging system. As the locomotive gets faster the light gets brighter and visa versa. Any way, thanks for the video, and laughs, and happy railroading!
haha thanks very much mate, never knew about that Lionel one either, sounds pretty awesome! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Your welcome and hope you have a great week!
i love this channel so much can you show more of the streamlined engines please you are the best
haha thanks so much mate - I'll do my best! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains you just made my day thank you : ) one day i want o have my own model railway like yours! : )
Cool experiment sam, love the weight embedded in the wall, health and safety at it's finest 😂
haha thank you, I agree!! xD
A good experiment. A possibly lethal, and property damaging experiment, but it works well. Thank you.
haha thanks mate, really glad you liked it! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Love the experimental videos sam
Thanks Lewis! :D
Ah yes
A video that involves model trains, electricity, botched mechanical devices and sam
What could possibly go wrong?
haha yep - It's my favourite kind! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Love the experimental videos Sam, nice one
Thanks so much Lyndon! :D
I worked at a exhibition in Woodbridge once he had a dcc speed up thing and it started up much slower it was so nice
Yeah absolutely - DCC does the same thing much better - this wasn't entirely a serious proposition, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
When you cut off power and the flywheel coasts, it works a little like how some EMUs put power back into the 3rd rail as they decellerate.
Yeah absolutely right - they do indeed! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, long time no see, my computer broke so I couldn't watch your vids. I love it when you do these experiments. :)
Awhh sorry to hear that - hope your computer is better soon! Thanks so much!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just earlier was on the severn valley railway, got back amd watched this while trying to find a model pannier tank with the number 1501
Ooh nice - hope you had a great day!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
sam: do not try this at home
me who is about to attach a chaisaw motor to an a1: what did you say ??
Hi Sam, great vid and certainly got me thinking.
The problem is that most trains perform too well to be realistic, and if a loco did perform realistically it would be branded as terrible, and for most people it WOULD be terrible.
But part of me really want's a loco with a realistic max speed, with a realistic tractive effort, that needs precise use of the speed controller to be able to pull away without wheelslip, and a good amount of track to get up to speed.
Set speed controller to 50% and off she zooms with her 18 coaches is just missing something...
Yeah that's true - I realised a long time ago that true realism definitely wouldn't be desirable, much less achievable! Thanks for sharing! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Another awesome video! Reminds me of the science guy on PBS way back when . It would be nice if we could do this on DC also not just DCC., this way everyone could afford this feature. Thanks Sam for another informative video.
haha thank you! You could definitely do this better on DC with a little heavy flywheel and smaller motor! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Absolutely fantastic!!!
I love this , such easy to understand physics and a practical way to demonstrate it
I bought a whole big box of controllers at a show in the early 90’s Every one works even the old Triang one
But one had inertia settings that could be preset
I couldn’t believe it it was so realistic
Stopping accurately at a station was quite tricky!
Bare in mind apart from Hornby Zero 1 digital hadn’t happened then
Could you market your spinning plate? I wonder🤔
It turns toys into real trains 👍👍👍
Thanks very much Jon - really glad you liked it! Yeah it wasn't bad was it? Better than expected! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That was amazing, good job man.
Thanks a lot mate! :D
Keep your beautiful work up sams train
Thanks so much! :D
Brilliant experiment. I guess this is also the principle behind regenerative braking.
Thanks Piers, yes it is indeed - exactly the same! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I love the experiment videos pls do more
Thanks so much mate - more coming soon! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow. What an experiment
Ikr
haha thank you! :D
@@SamsTrains no problem sam. :D
one thing that this made me think about it that i dont see any wires, beside the ones to connect the controller to the track. how tdo you get all the track around the room to get power?
The wires go along the wall, so they’re never in shot! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam you must patent this design. It could be boxed in a metal cube with metal plate inside and run on a large 12 v motor to protect controllers. You could make a mint here!
Yeah a miniature version could be awesome, but I’d never be able to patent it! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains would you mind if I make a safe version?
Well, that was an interesting video. Good show!
Considering the Gaugemaster is a powerful controller, I would have liked to see what happens if you use a less powerful controller, like the Mehano one. Another interesting thing worth mentioning is that this is basically how dynamic brakes work on real electric and diesel-electric locomotives.
Yeah that’s a good idea, I’d like to see what happens then too!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
nice work sam
Thanks Jimmy! :D