Lucifer's Last Talk With God - The Freedom To Choose
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- Issue#: Lucifer (2000) #75
Tracks used:
Patrik Patrikios - Voices [UA-cam Audio Library]
Patrik Patrikios - Feels [UA-cam Audio Library]
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Guiding your children without patronizing them is a task only god could achieve, when you consider that the children know about your omnipotence and have a free will.
@@newhybrid101 imaging destroying such a good message by saying "muh power" stfu and go tell that somewhere else
@@tajup8741 Power scaling is a real bitch, innit?
@@tajup8741 If a 'message' can be destroyed by truth, it deserves to be.
*except there is no free will in this context. the characters here are based on milton's writings. the whole premise of the rebellion is that god's omniscience renders free will impossible, as all things and events are already written. nice sappy sentence though.*
@@Dunge0n truth? I'm ready to debate you on this, tell me your discord
Lucifer is destined to defy his destiny in search of free will
It is such a difficult path...
So basically he's just a contrarian
@@bobydigital2450 He would probably agree with you. Hehe
@@bobydigital2450 I don't know sometimes I feel he defying presence is also part of the presence's plan for him. How can you defy someone who is literally omniscient 🙂
But if u were destined to defy destiny ain’t that just mean u were already destined to do it so witch mean he ain’t free bruh
"Even I was shaped by forces external to me."
I love that acknowledgement that even God has things which God has no control over.
That was confirmed by the Author to be humans, whose ideas give form to God's formless existence. The presence has no limits.
“omnipotence is no easy task and eternity is a very long time”
“ I am infinite and eternal”
If he's truly omnipotent he could stop those forces
@@npc9207Maybe God’s realm is just the omniverse and nothing outside of it. Like how many gods in DC are all powerful within there realms. God is just all powerful within his extremely vast realm.
I love how God tells his son Lucifer a story about Buddha and Monkey King as an example for this conversation.
When I heard they were adapting lucifer, this was what I expected.
Not an admittedly ok rip-off of The Mentalist.
Nobody in the industry left with the brains to do that, I'm afraid... ;(
IT can be argued it could be controversial.
The comic lucifer does delve into heavy tones of many religions and Sadly, people have grown more emotional.
@@zerolavo13 more risk averse and hyper sensitive, but you're overall point is correct.
I'd honestly prefer something like this over what we got. Granted like you said, what we got wasn't bad, but it wasn't the Lucifer from these comics.
This lucifer would end the other lucifer from tv show in heartbeat. While superman would easily beat the tv show lucifer
One of the best comic runs ever.
This conversation made me feel like a child watching adult conversations again, I don't understand much, and it's great. Well, actually, yeah I do, but you get my point. It's very interesting
It was either Heavy Metal magazine or Epic magazine that told the tale of the Monkey King and the Buddha.
Only in the less PG-rated version the Monkey King took a whiz on the pillar to prove he was there.
I also remember that from the 1986 TV series of Journey to the West which I grew up with
This, this scene alone makes the comic vastly more entertaining and appealing than the show
The whole run of the comic was like this. The show is a joke in comparison.
I'm just glad the Show's finally gone.
@@the-jackal I like the comics much more but the show was good
@@fictionfan4100 eh just my opinion (too which I'm gonna stick).
@@the-jackal yes I know Lucifer is one of my favorite characters ever I was really hesitant to watch the show but I gave it a shot and I liked it even though he was nerfed to hell
Lucifer Morningstar is one of the best DC characters
Also the third most powerful in fiction behind the presence and bugs bunny
@Captain Falcon its bugs bunny, presence, than lucifer
@UCBTTqNVNslAA1UC0cPENJ1g that's in all of fiction I wanted to say toaa from marvel but he exist in a universe where anyone can easily be toaa so he's not included
@Captain Falcon lol all good 👍
@Captain Falcon bugs bunny can take over the author stop episodes and bring characters into the real world lmao Noone can stop him even he says it
Holy hell that was a great philosophical debate and discussion. What run is this?!
The Lucifer comic series that spun off from Sandman
Vertigo Lucifer
Dc lucifer
Mike Carey run
This was really REALLY good.... keep up the good work and keep um coming..... GOD is with you 😁👍🏾🙏🏾😇
Thank you my friend!!
@@FernandoComicsOfficial No.....Thank You.
@@spawnofgreatness524 No....Thank youuu!!
And yet he still doesn't seem to know what situations where his father can help get him out of especially if the great evil beast was to find him
The Writer a.k.a. The Presence allow Lucifer to be his own maker and finally found he's free will
Fairly sure that the Presence isn't the Writer.
@@pietrocatalano4285 The Presence + Source + Overvoid = The Writer he is
It’s not like Marvel where the One above all is the comic book writer. The Presence and the Source are a character in DC.
@@manngay5046 Nope the writer is a separate entity. //edited removed something false.
@@stalliontv465 but the presence states that there are forces even above him, which would be the writers, this would be pataphysical in nature
Monopoly man and young burger king guy have a depressing speech once again
Beautiful song
"Life being what arises when the self throws down it's barricades and lets the world break in."
That one gave me pause.
Thanks for uploading this I read this a few years back and was looking for it again
Glad DC once again established that the Presence/Source is still the God of the DC Omniverse because before death metal and Scott Snyder's JL it was vague and writer's didn't know what they were doing with the character.
The void is the one true GOD of DC even the presence came from it
The presence: “Yes I am infinite and eternal, but even I was shaped from external forces.”
No they didn’t. The scan is just talking about how connective energy is born from the very presence of the Source, that’s literally what it means semantically and pragmatically. Presence is still in Heaven during Wonder Woman#758 and he hasn’t left.
@@primexample8912 That's not true because now the Overvoid is nothing but an empty void and the presence didn't say the Overvoid shaped him you just added that, Not only that but Scott Snyder changed everything in DC during his JL run and death metal the Overmonitor is now a thing of the past
Overvoid > Lucifer > presence
@@Ok-yc7sj Scott Snyder said otherwise and he confirmed the Presence is the source and is the God of the DC Omniverse he created the super celestials who made the multiverses.
Beautiful. Only N G could write like such a true mystic❤
This is Mike Carey’s Lucifer. Neil Gaiman made the character, Carey expanded on him.
Is it just me or does anyone else notice or thinks hes showing the panels out of order on purpose?
A couple of the panels are definitely out of order. God says "aight" and dips BEFORE Lucifer declines the exchange, lol
These characters exist in there own canon right? I cannot see these existing in the same canon that our favorite Justice leaguers have been dealing with for sometimes non consecutive decades b4 things get reset all over again and again.
Yep this is Lucifer from DC Vertigo comics. In the main canon Lucifer is nota as powerful and has a different design.
Yep, same canon as our favourite justice leagues, just above them in multiversal scale
It is canon, read Sandman. Morpheus visits the Justice League International and even met Martian Manhunter, he fought against dr destiny which is a justice league villain. Hell In one issue the Spectre visits Lucifer on a beach which was also where we last see Lucifer in the Sandman.
@@newhybrid101 Marvel is an omniverse I think like DC is an omniverse, both have multiple multiverses in it (DC has regular multiverse the dark multiverse etc, marvel has The Marvel multiverse and the Beyondverse where pre retcon beyonder comes frlm
Ok so guys i just want to point out, its kind of hard to imagine god's "plan" in the same universe as monitors, antimonitors and darkest knights
I've always liked this franchise.. minus the TV series. I'm still reading the New Versions. I thought The Ending for this was hilarious.. he wanted to do what he wanted sooo bad, he was willing to spend time in NOTHING - forever. Yeah, that'll totally show dad. lmfao.
Afterthoughts. Relics. What could have been but should not be.
This version of God and Lucifer make this TV show versions and the Supernatural versions, look like jokes.
Nice music, Fernando! And nice comic
The freedom to leave.
I want to see Lucifer vs Michel, and more about great evil beast
GEB is confirmed to now be Lucifer himself
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 can you show me
@@fictionfan4100
There was one comic where all the Lucifer’s aspects were together and they showed The great evil beast which basically implies geb is an aspect of lucy
And Dan watters the author confirms it
@@freddymyres8718 thanks dude wow lucifer is a badass
@@fictionfan4100 glad to help 👍
More Lucifer and Sandman 👌
Niceee good to see some more lucifer
GOAT talk
This comic looks awesome I might have to check this out
Thanks for making the vid for me fernando!
We are toys for them!!!a large tv
Umm, the T-mobile commercial before this vid was hilarious
Um Okay 👍
Huh this the first time the monkey king was mentioned in dc I like it what are everyone else’s thoughts on it
monke
monke
monke
*monke*
monke
3:19 does this panel imply that the presence knows that he is a comic book character?
No he’s talking about the monitors mate. Not a fourth wall break.
@@dylanf3108 the monitors didn't create the presence. The monitors and everything in DC is created by the presence via michael, lucifer and Gabriel
I didnt understand what he want to tell can anyone tell, presence is created by external force? They went in void, void means over monitor ?
The external forces were the dreams of humanity that reshaped the previous iteration of the universe into what the current DC Multiverse is now. Cats were the dominant species at that time, so one of the dudes convinced humanity to reshape the universe so that they were always dominant instead of the cats.
No, the Over Monitor is not the Void/Over-Void, that's Mar Novu aka the Monitor.
Plus it stated that he was shapes by External forces, not created by it. The Presence has never been seen, plus the Over-Monitor never was or is to be the Supreme Being. Even a being like Perpetua herself can taken something from it a.k.a The Over-Monitor to created many thing's and her three Sons. By the power of THE SOURCE A.K.A THE PRESENCE.
@@gabrielhughes8221 Exactly the answer I wanted to type.
@@bat_wayne215 I'm just being honest with people. 😀
@@axelramirez6245 there interview about the presence, that the presence doesn't need all of that anymore
No tengo palabras para esto, soy demasiado jodidamente umilde, solo dire Abzu.
Could it be that if Lucifer had agreed to God's offer, Lucifer would have transformed into Jesus Christ and God into the Devil as depicted in the Book of Revelation?
No they would both be something different, but the same in a way.
It's funny. God's offer seems to be exactly what lucifer always wanted. To be completely free from his father with no possible second questioning it he ever is or will be. Yet his own pride stops that. To be free of his father by fully embracing his father? preposterous.
In a way, he kinda doomed himself. He will now never know if he is free from his influence, and hating them for no other reason than "that's how I was made." I wish him the best, but I can't see him finding his way truly out, less his own death. And he perhaps hates that more than his father
Embracing him is to become like him within this context. Lucifer wants a creation without predestination. Him becoming his father would be a slap in the face to all he opposed
Im going to a cafe and order that tea so i can say that i drank a tea that the presence drank UPDATE: it tastes wonderful
Lucifer Vs CAS ?
Lucifer Vs PRB ? Who wins?
Luci takes it
CAS one shot
@@pokedragonx2963 in your dreams
@@eivor3975 🤣🤣 even CAS can one shot the presence bro read comics
@@pokedragonx2963 L
Luficer followed GOD. GOD closed and disappeared I love idea
No see , light I love it
Light is nowhere I love
I was there. Light is no somwhere
Wait wtf😂 . So Lucifer is consumed by the OVERVOID . Even the god presence has his on limitations towards OVERVOID. Wow
Then the over void has much much powerful forces . I've only seen clips of this but now i realised everything. Then why is still presence is the god of DC?
The OVERVOID is the white stuff between comic panels
He wasn’t consume he just flying in it bruh Lucifer retuned from the void later in the new comic
@Abhikrishna Ps that would be “the writer ”
Pretty sure Sun Wukong didn't do that with Budai.
It's not completely accurate, but it is mostly accurate. Sun Wukong leaped across the heavens inscribing his signature marking his rule, but it was actually the Buddha's finger he was writing on.
Name of the comics please ?
Which comics is this i know it's Lucifer vertigo but the comic number
Issue: #75
@@Joe-uk4vu thx
That's not Buddha, he not even Indian, it's one of the three Chinese gods of good luck and fortune: the Sanxing are Fuk, Luk, and Sau. I wonder which one though.
What is the name of this dc comic?
Lucifer 2001 from dc vertigo comics
And people compare Lucifer with the puny beyonder pathetic.
Fr 😫
Imagine comparing a nigh boundless being to an outerversal fodder
@@SexLuthor lucifer is nigh boundelss and prb is outversal fodder
@@LUCIFERSONOFGOD Lucifer is boundless because of humans in DC being scaled to CU 💀
Wheres part 1, can someone tell me please.
Samael = Speedwagon with short hair
Please someone who is the paper man type character that lucifer meets in the overvoid
Sun Wukong!
1:50 Sun Wukun???
Is it DC?
Yes
Yes, DC vertigo comics
Why aren't Constantine and Lucy
a consistent item?? I ship them so much,
Like an old divorced couple lol
Oh no
this is better be a joke
Wtf 🤨
L
Nope not a joke, they need to be like that toxic couple that always fights lol they have too much in comman for being so different,
They have both told god to go fuckhimself to his face aswell lol fucking crying about characters being bi? Srry! Its cannon folks
He wants the unattainable
Just listen to your Pops. Get over yourself
Is Michael and Gabriel Dead?
No.gabriel is still alive while Michael was dead when he fight Lucifer
@@ameljust2285 you mean Micheal was killed when he fought with lucifer
@@lucifer_morningstar.. yea... when his's second dead
Yes they are both dead.
The preaching further down in the comments is very much amusing. Laughable, but amusing. So many bootlickers have flocked to this video...
*WAIT OUR GOD IN THE BIBLE EXIST IN DC UNIVERSE RIGHT? SO LUCIFER AND JESUS CHRIST ARE CONNECTED?*
Yeah all pantheons exist in DC but the Judeo-Christian God/Presence/Source is the God the multiverse in DC and Lucifer Morningstar is the 3rd most powerful being in creation.
Yes. It's called being based on and adapted.
@@mnemosyne1337 Who are the other 2?
@@newhybrid101 Yeah but I was only thinking multiversely not outside it.
@@newhybrid101 aren’t Lucifer and GB one and the same though?
Light I am talked ABOUT closed
I'm not going to take the time going into all the logical theological inconsistencies, but that was painful. I'm sure the writers thought themselves clever.
I don't think that's the point here. The point is to write a good comic that is entertaining and accessible to everyone. They're not here retell the story of the Bible. They borrowed and used **some** elements from the Bible but added their own twist, made their own version.
@@cgm395 The point of good story telling, given that I write fantasy novels, is to not only write something interesting or exciting but have logical consistency bind it all together. How can an infinite being give a finite being everything? The logical fallacy is, can God make a square circle? Or if God is omnipotent can he make a rock so heavy he can't lift it? If God is omniscient and omnipotent, how does he not know that his creation would go against its destiny? Those illogical dilemmas set the foundation of the story. And those are just two things.
If you enjoyed it, great. But those of us that study religion and theology see right through it.
@@unknownvitster so you're the 0.01% that doesn't enjoy it. Good for you?
@@unknownvitster _''...but even I was shaped by forces external to me. You know what they are.''_ I don't claim to know what he's referring to there, but to me it seems to give the D.C. character 'The Presence' here something of an out to your charge of logical fallacy, no? Isn't it presumptuous to assume the infinite or the eternal being any kind of respecters of the, comparatively, small minded logical fallacies of men? Are you an Atheist?
@@unknownvitster I presume that the reason behind these paradoxical concepts being aplied into this comic is precisely by being based in theological sources, that, as you pointed out some, posesses paradoxical concepts too.
There is zero reason to trust any god.
Well if it’s not god who claims to be one I agree
But if it’s genuinely the Big G they are literally the one person you should trust to tell
The truth as there is no reason to lie in fact to lie would prove you are not god for the simple reason you use false information
So God was created by external force??
What this mean?
It means God was shaped by forces outside of the Void.
@@damonwillis3004
Great so he Is not the real First creator, and this forces??
@@vincenzolagatta9785 Yes, he is the the comic created representation of the real world writer.
No, no... I think that within DC, Yahweh - and Lucifer for that matter - are in the end given shape to by the Dreaming in the abstract sense: By belief. And it is only because of this belief that they hold the (near-)omnipotence they do. If we look at the more recent Lucifer comics, in which Odin plays a central role, these themes are explored more in-depth.
Basically: Lucifer and the Presence outstrip the Dreaming, and Dream of the Endless, in power by a wide margin, but they are nonetheless subject to it, in so far as that they are part of a greater story, and belief in that story is what allows them to exist as they are in the first place.
@Miki rin The trick is to take a more detached view to the nature of time: The presence was *retroactively* shaped by the current belief of humans. And, due to being the dominant idea/story within the collective human (sub-)consciousness, he and his subsidiaries such as Lucifer rose to the near-omnipotent degrees of power they hold. Or at least that's my working theory. Which is further affirmed by the fact that in the third volume of "Lucifer", when he encounters Odin at the height of the Norse deity's power, during medieval/viking times, Odin and he are actually more-or-less on an even level in terms of power, from what I can tell. Contrast this to the ease with which he handled the likes of Loki in modern times, in the original, first volume of Lucifer...
And, give "dream of a thousand cats" another read I'd say? It explains the "retroactive" aspect quite well imho.
As for the "original" origins of humanity, the universe, ect. within this system... Who knows? Perhaps such a thing doesn't even truly exist. To a degree, to make sense of it, we have to let go of the idea of causality in a straightforward sense, and instead view reality as a snake eating it's own tail. Humanity created first the old nameless gods that Lucifer encountered in his "Sandman Presents" issues... Then, humanity created increasingly complex deities - the Pagan ones most prominently -, who retroactively gave humanity its first mythological origins... Then, at some point, man created the Presence, and as the idea gained traction, then the presence retroactively created humanity, who then created the Presence, who then gained yet more traction, until he'd surpassed all other deities up to that point, retroactively becoming the *sole, true* creator of existence, ×/-.
in minute 3.18 the Presence says that he was shaped by forces external to him!!!!! If so, he is not God by the meaning of a power pre existing of everything, Creator of all there is, and not made by someone else. This leads to infinite creator of creator of creator and so on. There must be a start that has no creator to be called God meaning the First Cause
All that comment means is he allows himself to be shaped by those that believe in him. For example different Abrahamic religions. They all have the same god but worshippers view him differently and worship him differently. Bear in mind that God in DC is more formally known as Yahweh, the Jewish deity, even Lucifer identifies his father as this name. Yet God in DC is the defacto God of most of the organised religions in DC. He's still omnipotent but he allows himself to be shaped by his worshippers
The writer is the the external force the writer is the only rhing more powerful than him
TheWriter>Presence>Lucifer>overvoid>spectre
@@ioniiKxFreeZeXNo the writer is not the external forces.
So the presence is not that all powerful cuz he was created by force external if he does have a beginning it mean is not that op
Creator of the omniverse but not thar powerful...youtube needs to make commentators pass an iq test
@@markmullins8622 lmao did you even read the comics to say that ? He said himself he was himself created by force external yes is powerful but not that much cuz he have a beginning is not is own maker there is people who were even stronger than him so I think you need to pass the q test but anyway there no need to pass the q test we already know the answer lol
The force external is in reference to the writers themselves. He is all powerful advertising for the true gods of the comics, the writers.
Ethan Acevedo The author stated that the Forces external referred to how the personal reality of individuals can become self-actualised through belief. This was one of the main premises of the comic book series "Sandman". He didn't directly state that he was created by something else. The 'no' has a question mark, leaving his denial with some degree of ambiguity and he did state that he was eternal. The implication that he could be shaped in my opinion opens up the possibility that vertigo's God may not be omnipotent but that he himself does not understand the full reach of his powers. Perhaps even an omniscient being may question whether their knowledge is complete due to the possibility of unknown unknowns. The Lucifer series has never really being metatextual, so I doubt God acts as a representation of the writers here.
@@jonathangaming1163shaped*
Damn. I hate these stories. The God, the maker, the creator. An the failure, the abortion, the miscreant, the devil. Soooooooo fucking BORING.
YEHOVAH GOD would NOT be having a discussion with Heylel (Not Lucifer), about a Buddah which is a false god...Sad, smh...
It’s just a comic bro… Calm down.
@@mattkeita3448 ...I am calm...But you people are Spiritually blind and dead...I'm not the going to pay for my sins...And that's not a comic book...
Why, Yehovah is omnipotent, so he shouldn't have any problem with talking about (possibly) fictional character. Also, I may have a disturbing revelation to you: It's just a fiction. It's a comic book. IT'S NOT REAL.
@@rafibenavi4772 it's just a comic
Buddah is the Source in DC
Almost as terrible as the Devil tricking humanity into doubting his existence is trying (even in the guise of a character in a comic book or graphic novel) to convince us that Satan retained any of his nobility or other goodness after he rebelled against GOD. Despite the talented writing, DC has behaved despicably in this regard in it's portrayal of "Lucifer."
@@kaprio551 no
Lucifer it's a fictional character, so he can be written as the author wish to.
#ClownMoment
I am not talking about lucifer or God. But the mindset of treating other as an absolute evil, or absolute enemy is what scares me. The world of black and white. From one side to praised as an absolute benevolent savior. But from the same absolute benevolent savior demeans those who are opposite of him as absolute evil, sinners, and non-believers. It is a contradiction. If one were to be an absolute savior shouldn’t he do all of what he can to save others, even for those who have harmed him. If an almighty being claims to be an absolute benevolent savior, but demeans his own creation, then what claims can he make that his love is unconditional? I believe if God claims himself as an magnanimous being, then he would be able to one day save lucifer too
@@kaprio551 Before he rebelled against GOD, Lucifer was the Angel of Light and Music. I don't know of any biblical reference to him as the Angel of Truth. In fact, after he rebelled and became known as Satan, he has been called the "Father of Lies."
Is anyone gonna talk about how smooth the presence and lucifer looks in this?
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38
Stfu!
Shut up Paul!
Damn people being rude
@@bradchervel5202 why are you crying?
@@returnofhorusthegalacticor9704 I agree, noone needs to see some immoral religiois garbage none asked for.
Like Spike Lee and the author of GoT said "DC is wack".
How
Lucifer...the ultimate LOSER!
Nah he is the ultimate winner
How is he a loser when he achieved true free will, something humans can't even do
@@SexLuthor not even other archangels couldn't achieve true free will
Heresy! God is Perfect, his plans are perfect and he would never change his designs or apologize to the Devil! the world needs to stop making us think the devils the good guy and feel sorry for him when he’s the very reason evil is in the world by influencing us to sin like Adam and Eve for example:
Pride: To think we are better then others but then we fall and realize how much of a jackass we are and he stands there laughing at you
Hate: To hate your friends or enemies on hurting your feelings
Anger: You then take action against said friends or enemies by killing them in anger
Coveting: Wanting what others have when you can appreciate your own things but you just have to have it
Lust: Rape! May I say more!
Learn he is the liar and the Murderer, so follow God instead for he sent his only son to die, restoring mankind to the divine so that we may live and join him in eternal paradise!
@Miki rin Read the Bible, here since I know you won’t 🙄
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44
@Miki rin No imitating the word dose 😎
New International Version
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:22
@Miki rin Of course they do, if they go to Christian school or parents teach them, but you should be worried about yourself, to mix fiction with reality
Shut up
Turning Lucifer into a sympathetic figure, not good!
Why not? It's not as if we've ever heard _his_ side of things.
@@goldenyak629 His side is very simple. He thought he could replace God and assume his seat on the throne and led a rebellion but lost. Now, he's deceiving people into sinning against God because he's the prince of lies and will spend eternity in the lake of fire along with anyone else who refuses to accept Lord Jesus as savior. Christ died for us to have eternal life and Satan hates that and wants lots of company in that lake of Fire.
Yeah, that's not his side of things. That's the story his enemies tell.
@@goldenyak629 Of course it's not his side of things, he's a deceiving liar. There's nothing sympathetic about him. In the end times he will deceive many, and make them take his mark. He wants to be God but he never will be. Please don't think he's some misunderstood individual. He's evil, nothing more nothing less. As much as publications and television wants everyone to fool everyone, it won't work, he's still doomed, and so are his followers. The Gospel that saves is 1 Corinthians 15: verses 1-5.
Well, consider the source on that.
All of this is repetition and boring... let's read about the two Eves.