Engineer who's been skating with spacers since 94 here, they're not designed to crank down so it's a solid connection the whole way through, they're designed so that when you tighten your nuts the normal amount they restrict how much lateral deflection the wheels can put on your bearings when you put any force on them that isn't in the regular plane of rotation. Because urethane is really quite soft when you power slide or nose or tail slide or revert a landing you're able to push the bearing somewhere it doesn't want to go, equivalent to tightening down the nut so far it won't turn. Once you stop doing that and start rolling normally again it goes back to where it was, but it's been damaged slightly. Spacers limit how much deflection is possible (say 0.5mm instead of 2-3mm) which keeps your bearings from being damaged as easily. If you just tighten them like you would without spacers you get that protection and it doesn't sound or feel any different. 👍
... I do not even understand why ben would say this but he is a new school skater a lot of his generation do not understand the correct principles of the design....😮
It's such a simple point. Yes the spacers might not fully engage if the nut is not fully tightened. But while skating under high pressure the spacer will support the bearing to some degree. Having no spacer gives no support in any circumstance
@@Just_SK8 You shouldn't be cranking on it. Excessive torque applied will have the cages/races under constant / excessive stress, where they have a lesser range of protection under normal skateboarding conditions, i.e. riding and tricks, increasing wear / reducing life of bearing. The protection provided is during the lateral shift to help distribute the force applied evenly on the sides of the cages/races.
Funny that the reason you don't like spacers is the reason I actually like them. I like my wheels as tight as possible and hate that 'rattley' sound from them when you drop your board to the ground. I like the 'log' sound haha. Each to their own I guess.
Spacers make your bearings stronger. In my younger days, in the 80's and 90's, we destroyed lots of bearings when we didn't use spacers, because we did lots of power slides. It would cave in the bearings. You tighten it snug, then back off the nut 1/4 to 1/2 a turn.
In my opinion the benefit of spacer is that they protect your bearings from completely getting ripped apart. When you land on the side of your wheel, not all the way to primo on the axle you apply a lot of force to the outer bearing solely if you have no spacer. You can basically make the bigger and smaller rings of the bearing shift apart too far and snap the whole bearing. When you have a spacer the same force is distributed between both the inner and outer bearing. This means that the chance of disintegrating your bearings is way smaller. The few times I didn't add a spacer , I ended up crushing the outer bearing on one of my wheels. I feel like you focused too much on the sound of the board. My board has spacers and sounds like a skateboard + screams when sliding. I have just left a bit of play like you would as well when you ride no spacer. Riding the spacers loose does not defeat the benefit I talk about above at all. Kind of confused nobody is talking about this aspect of spacers haha
You said the exact stuff I was going to say, I'm glad you did because now I don't have to write any of it. Yeah he missed the fact that even if you do leave your spacer a little bit loose, the bearing will still be protected in the event of a hard side impact. When I install a wheel/bearing assembly with a spacer included, I'd like to tighten it down till everything's press together really tight then I back it off till the assembly can slide back and forth a little bit, then I gently tighten it back down until it juuuuuuuuusssst barely stops sliding back and forth.
Usually agree with you Ben, but I definitely use spacers! A couple things to note - you shouldn’t crank it down until it torques the balls against the races, with or without spacers. Wheels are notoriously made with poor QC, so there are issues with thickness of the inside - one way to fix this is to add a speed ring next to the spacer if the spacer is not long enough and you do want to crank it down. However, I back it off a quarter turn once the nut touches the bearing to bring back a bit of the rattle and sliding sound. I don’t think it needs to engage tightly at all times to work - when you’re sliding, you’re putting pressure on the wheel sideways, torquing the inner races against the balls and outer race, and the spacers help to reinforce the bearings as a unit against that force instead of having each one take on the pressure separately.
All powell wheel cores are designed for Bones Race Reds. Powell dragons + Race Reds are a great combination, our neighbours love them and they last a lot longer plus no washers needed very quick wheel swaps with a power drill.
I think one of the main issues people run into with spacers if they over tighten things down and actually crush the spacers and mushroom them because they aren't strong enough. They really should be a super strong steel or similar material to the axles, but they are usually aluminum and easy to deform. Spacers even when not fully tightened up with slack in the wheels will still sound the same as without spacers though and still have some benefits in my opinion. But definitely depends on specific spacers and wheels for sure. I am team spacers with tiny bit of slack for the reason you mentioned. Skateboard parts need some room to expand and breathe. Like just enough wiggle in the wheel to feel but not really shift a lot.
@@bendegros that's so wild to me. Didn't know spacers could mushroom like that has that's never happened to me in my....five(?) Years of using them now. Been skating for a few decades. Lol
That is interesting for sure. I never noticed it with my spacers, but I can see how the structural integrity can be easily altered from the forces of skating. In that case, of course they are only going to be dead weight on the board since it would be too narrow to touch anything!
I only used 1 set of spacers for exactly that reason. They mushroomed pretty quickly and I wondered why I couldn't crank them down all the way. Makes sense that they would if they were made of some soft material. I probably already destroyed them when I put them on for the first time (breaking stuff by cranking it too much is something that has happened to me a lot ^^)
@@cjchavez19 it will be pretty subtle but if you compare them to new spacers you will probably notice it. I’m not sure it really matters though. But point is even if using spacers you shouldn’t ever be cranking down the wheels as tight as possible. With or without spacers.
For me it depends on the context. On a longboard I’m riding precision trucks, wheels with cores, spacers and bearings with tight tolerances. With proper gear spacers are essential. On my Florida boy Foy setup I’m riding dry bearings with no shields and no way spacers for the sound as mentioned. I think both opinions are valid.
Exactly what it is. The sound. The speed. The center part of the wheel is the thing. I don't have it figured it out. But just set up a board with spacers and some wiggle room. Sounds amazing.
This is funny. I did a pro-spacer video on my channel a few years ago. It's still one of my highest viewed videos and I do an array of content, not just skate content. A lot of the contrary comments were similar to your objections. One about wheel bark (though I've still had plenty of wheel bark with spacers sometimes, depending on the wheel). One about inconsistent wheel inner core sizes making the bearings stick out the sides of the wheel. You do have to have good, well-lubricated/maintained bearings to use them. Definitely things you have to consider if you skate newer wheels or certain brands. I still think though, if you have an old-school setup, do high speeds/downhill or skate freestyle where you do a lot of primo tricks, spacers are a good idea. Great video, as always, Ben. Been a fan of yours for several years.
Same story for me, I use spacers and have done videos about them on my channel talking about the reasons and the need for accuracy and like yours they have been my highest viewed videos. People are obviously keen to know more . One thing that let your test down Ben is that your spacers are evidently too short for your cores so when you tightened them your wheels slowed down, that won’t happen with the right ones (see my videos for examples of mine free spinning fast when fully tight) therefore your rolling felt slow and your bearings will be getting slightly crushed. My setup is fast and solid and My bearings last me years and years.
Also some people in our skatepark didnt use those little washers on the axle. My skate OCD tells me to run two inside and one outside of the wheel. It rolls better, your axle wont be grinded down and maybe it helps with the grind lock a tiny little bit. Never wrecked my axle threads ever since.
I used to skate without them and after a few years I tried em. Since then, I always use them. You have to leave a little gap for the wheel, just a tiny little rattle. Board feels and works better that way. My opinion… I use Bones wheels and never had any problems. Without there spacers, my bearings were dead much faster
@@will5430 have you ever had a wheel where the bearing fits super loose and falls out? That's from not using spacers. Even if there's a tiny gap with a spacer you are still stopping the wheel from mushrooming inside when it takes impact. Ben just doesn't know what he's talking about on this one 😂
Rat Vision did a very good vid to show the science behind it all. If the spacer doesn’t match the inner core of the wheel they’re pointless. I ride them and get ones that are too big and file them down a milimeter or two to precise size.
I was looking for this comment. I'm so relieved to know I'm not the only one. Thinking about the amount of axial loading that those poor, spacer-less bearings are forced to endure is about enough to make me cry😢
@@joshwood241 yep same here. Wish I knew all this back in late 90’s early 2000’s. When I was scraping by with zero money for new bearings and I even used to put the forbidden spray on them like a dum dum…..wd-40🤯
Hello! Can you please let me know how you measure their precision? Because I also get this feeling that something is wrong where my spacer feels like it's pushing the bearings out of the socket.. I ride for long distance.. So every 3~5 km depending on how rough the road is I need to pick up the board and clam the wheels to ensure they're nice and snug again and voila feels new. Max speeds again. I want to cut that clam process out of my riding though😂
I truly understand what you mean about the way a board sounds, if my set-up doesn't only feel but sound right I can't not stand it, I can skate it but I will do everything in my power to fix it immediately.
My thoughts are bearings don’t sell if they don’t wear out. The wheel makers have had plenty of time to get center spacing consistent. They just are not going to. At his point in my life I only ride bearings with built in spacers and high tolerance hard cored wheels. I ride $15 Zealous steel built in’s over Swiss with separate spacers for the last few years and I’ve tried them all at all prices for over forty years… out of transparency though , I have not rode hard sub 56mm wheels for over 20 years. Modern size wheels are just not doable at my age and long declining skill level. At this point smooth and fast is the hard rule. Another great video. Keep ‘em coming. One of the best skate related channels out there.
I spent a few years trying to get spacers and a snug wheel nut to work after getting fed up with axle slip. Finally cracked it and have all my wheels working perfectly on 6 set ups. Some of the things I found out on the way are: The perfect torque on a wheel nut is 5 Newton Meters. Tight enough to cut through the Nyloc but not too tight to deform the spacer. Wheel quality is everything. Had good luck with Slime Balls, OJ's, Ricta and Bones. New wheels sometimes have slightly too much width in the core. This soon goes away with a few skates as the bearings settle into the wheel, actually putting an imprint into the core. You may need to lube the wheel core (wipe a tiny amount of bearing oil around the bearing seats) to properly seat the bearings. Some wheels are mega tight to get those bearings in! When you tighten the wheel nut fully sometimes the wheel won't spin very well, usually all it needs is for you to pull / push the wheel hard with the board on it's side to get those bearings seated and spinning right. Aluminium bearing spacers are better than steel. I guess it's because it's easier to work aluminium precisely and more exact than steel. All the steel ones I have have been cheap and badly made (krooked non parallel faces and poor tolerance). All being well, the wheel should spin free at very low speeds, even wiggle a tiny amount even with the nut tight. The low speed test is KING 👑
having a couple mils of play in your wheels also makes such a nice sound when you catch a proper kickflip. I love to hear that pop, catch and puttin it down bolts sound when Im skating
You're right Ben. The spacers need unrealistic precision to function properly. If you have open bearings, the spacers take up more room in between the bearing seats, so debris has less room to float, causing premature bearing failure. Even if you get the bearing spacers fit precisely, dirt will cake up between the bearing and spacer, taking away the precision. You notice it during cleaning. The spacer will be stuck to the bearing, almost glued in with dirt.
How do you get dirt inside to begin with? There are shields to prevent it from going inside. If you pop out the shields to remove the spacers you are significantly reducing lifetime of your ball bearings.
There is some folklore out there amongst the less intellectually gifted skaters that "if you take your shields off, the dirt won't accumulate inside but will fly back out" thus making shieldless superior 😂. Kind of like when you go cut some stone with a saw and you decide NOT to use an airmask because the fine stonedust will fly out of your lungs again as you exhale instead of being trapped inside your lungs WITH an airmask. Logic.
I use spacers but still leave a little room for the wheels/ bearings to move on the axle. I dont think this is a "fingers of flat" type critically important part of your setup. But still enjoy the discussion!
LOL dude this showed up at just the right time. I'm just getting back into skating (about the same age as you) and being watching a bunch of your vids for info and working out my new setup. All the stuff arrived today and I was raging because my bearings didn't come packaged with spacers (bronson G3 8Ballrs) I just assumed they would. Went straight to youtube to see what the deal is and this popped up. Good stuff. Your vids are top tier
@@zomkashwak hey I do have them. I ended up buying the Bronson cleaning kit which came w their spacers. They really should include them with the signature sets. The cleaner set is a bit of an expensive way to get them. Most skate shops do sell them seperate I mainly see the bones spacers and they are same size and fine too. In my opinion if you are a lighter weight skater and/ or doing a lot of tricks they don't matter as much as long as you don't mind the different sound/noise the board makes without them. If you are heavier weight and/or use your board more for cruising around then I would definitely recommend them. Hope this helps
@@AA-bh3bz hello! thanks for the fast reply and for the advice. its really helpful and i appreciate it alot. theres local made spacer where i lived i think im gonna get one, hope it’s fits nicely. take care and have fun skating!
Thank you so much for making a video about spacers. I ride them and love them. My wheels spin really well. If I don't use them my board feels like a wobbly shopping trolley. Two small things. One: I can tighten my wheels all the way and that makes wheel changes way quicker. Two: I have two different size spacers and wondered why until a set of filmer wheels I got stick and don't turn. Maybe they need the other size spacer. I'm willing to bet downhill skaters always use spacers.
I always use them for downhill skating. It makes slides way smoother because the wheel has no wiggle room causing chatter. Tolerances are usually better on downhill wheels because they have plastic inserted cores.
I’ve been messing with the spacers for like two years now since I started buying better bearings. I also wasn’t a fan of the log sound and slow feeling when you have them snuggled up all the way. I still run them, but with the tiniest amount of wheel jiggle. In my head, they’ll last longer because with a side impact, the spacer should eventually make contact with the bearing and stop some of the impact. Not sure if it’s the spacer or the actual better quality of the bearings, but it seems to be working. Plus you still get to keep that nice skateboard sound. Worst case scenario is that I’ve been riding around with a tiny bit extra weight haha. Probably just counter balances the silly hollow hardware I have.
I’m on spacers currently because my Ace AF-1 axel nuts loosen up unless they’re fully tightened down. I also just like the feeling of my setup being securely put together. But, yes, I’ve wondered about some of the mechanics, and why spacers occasionally make wheels feel slower. I think you’re right that it’s probably variation in the inner sizing of wheels.
All my friends swear by Ace... Just started using Black AF1's recently and even with Bones Bushings they are extremely loose no matter how much I tightened them (I prefer loose trucks too but it was ridiculous / constant wheel bite)... And the nut would always come loose, but luckily I always caught it before my hangar fell off. Was going to just deal with it but while skating just the other day I looked down and one of my wheels was poking out... The axel nut had come off. Found it but no matter how much I tightened it it would still come off easily just turning it with my fingers... Maybe I got a bad set but I was / am extremely disappointed.
@@joshfeenan7178 If you ride trucks that tight then ace trucks just weren't for you (no offence, just an observation). Also, ace bushings harden up after couple sessions and once you get used to them, they feel loose but stable when you need them to be
@@KharonYT I ride my trucks looser than my friends who swear by Ace (and recommended them) but these were ridiculous... When I first had the stock bushings in they would pull / lock to whatever side I had just leaned too. I was told to put Bones Bushings in by quite a few people familiar with Ace trucks... I have since then seen / heard that a lot of others say just wait it out with the stock bushings (as you mentioned) but I had already tossed them. The axel nut was only one and I could finger tighten it passed the threading (with wheels off). Even when I tightened it down to wear the wheel wasn't rolling it would still come off rather easily. As I mentioned maybe I got a lemon in my set. I skated Trackers then Ventures in the 80's, Indy's in the 90's and early 00's. Only started skating again a few years back after a long hiatus (mostly due to work schedule) and have been rolling Thunders. 46 years old, still rolling
I am a spacer guy lol. I would break bearings ALL the time when skating. I love to powerslide both frontside and backside. This would cause me to blow the bearings out, I’m talking loose ball bearings flying out and everything. I also had washers on the ends. I made the change to using spacers and washers and have not broke a bearing since, I do use bone Swiss ceramic bearings but have had the same pair for going on 7 years now, and they are as fast as they have always been. Adding the spacers fixed my issues of blowing out bearings and will continue to use them in every set up going forward. I keep a very small wiggle room for the wheel as far as tightness goes. Love your vids and saw you on 9club too, glad to see you making your way! Sending love and positivity from PHX, AZ!
It will all work best with spacers that fit right. Using washers can get the clamping force proper. A solid setup is best with everything tight. Loose bearings will always seem faster. Lose bearings wear out quicker. The slop makes it unnoticeable.
I use the Bronson bearings with shields and spacers. The standard skate nearing is designed to have all its strength come from up and down force. When you turn or power slide it puts sideways load on the bearing and will blow them out faster without the spacers. When I use them I crank them tight to seat everything then I back the nut off to just before it starts to rattle. By doing this I lessen the amount the inner races can shift and my bearings last nearly forever.
Ok Ben, board with spacers in a wheels just doesn't gring at all. Now i will go and remove my spacers from the wheels. Thank you for this type of advice %)
I have only recently started using spacers. I have no idea why other than my friend kept saying to use them. I took a while to find a set that fitted my wheels and even wheel to wheel they differ. Also that "log" sound you talk of was the goal for all my friends in the 90's. They really strived to have that solid sound and absolutely no rattle on the wheels. I could never achieve it as my bearing always sucked.
I worked at skate shops in the 80s and wheels had to be left a hair loose so they would spin freely. We always used spacers. Powell wheels were most cooperative, but still needed to be left a hair loose. Spacers to me help keep the wheel’s core/bearing seat from getting torn out from horizontal force, particularly with softer wheels Imo there is no harm in using spacers and a few cons to not using them
Just commenting on this to say that ALL truck brands can/will axle slip. I've ridden Venture, Destructo, Thunder, Independent and probably another brand I'm forgetting and all of them had a little axle slip at one point or another. But it really isn't a huge deal. Its usually a fairly easy fix like you demonstrated. I will say tho I definitely prefer wheels with no bearing spacers. To me they just aren't necessary
Definitely suggest spacers for rollerskate wheels because they arent perfect and i found if your doing tricks on two wheels the bearing actually shifts and wears into the wheels causing play. Some might not notice but im very precise and can feel the play. I suggest rollerbones spacers that are smaller than skateboard wheel spacers!
First off, I have never been into spacers either. But now you've got me thinking.... As you mentioned, not all wheel cores are created equal. In the scenario where you're pinching the bearings/making them slower due to the wheels core being to thick... Maybe try adding a 3rd washer; between the bearings inside the wheel with the spacer? Essentially you make the spacer thicker. That way, hopefully it actually locks the center bearing races to the axle. Allowing the wheel to spin freely Would totally love it if you felt like nerding out to revisit and test this! 🤙
The one thing worse than the spacer not making contact is if the wheels dont make contact. If the spacer is too wide because you shimmed it, then the wheel will move back and forth over the bearings and can be a huge issue. In that case, its better to go without the spacer so you can get a proper fitment between the wheel and bearings without anything loose.
I go back and forth on this. Most recently, the issue I had when using spacers was this: Every spacer I tried was just a little bit wider than the core of every spitfire wheel I tried them in. This caused the bearings to never be fully seated in the wheel, always floating towards each outside edge of the wheel just a hair. So, if my wheel took a sideways hit, or if I locked into a 50-50 too hard, the outer bearing in a given wheel would pop out of the wheel even further and would be so tight up against the outer speed washer that it would cause the wheel to spin much more slowly, to the point where I could absolutely tell that I needed to push harder to go anywhere. I can't imagine that friction is good for any part of the skateboard. I’ve gone back to my tried and true Reds with no spacers and some wiggle. I’ll just replace them when they blow up on me.
whenever i can use them with them working, i do. ideally they should be a slight bit wider than the wheel core, just a hair, so they make contact without pinching the cores but not so much wider that the bearings don't seat fully. i'm probably with you in that even when i use them i don't crank on them super tight, so maybe it's not doing anything but giving me unwarranted peace of mind. i didn't notice the duller sound until you mentioned it, i blamed the wood, but i do think i have spacers on that board. they do seem to make bearings last longer, anecdotally anyway.
Started skating in like 1990 in California. All my years never skated spacers or even had a friend ride em. Heck not even sure I've ever even seen em!? 😆🤷♂️ once I saw they took away power slide squeals, all I needed to know, I love my 🐖🔊
I press my bearings into the wheels with a press, to make sure they are aligned properly. If you tighten the nut down to squeese the bearings together, the outer race might get skewed. Then you get that uneven sound. Spintest is not very good either. Under load is what matters.
I do use spacers, but I also size them to the core of the wheels. I also snug them down and then loosen 1/4 turn so I have the least amount of friction possible. It’s the best of both worlds imo.
Everyone loves to say that the bearings don't engage when the wheel isn't tightened all the way. But the difference in sound during your powerslide demonstration is proof that they DO engage. Provided the gap between the spacer and bearings is small enough, it will most certainly close when enough force is put on the wheel such as a powerslide. Thus engaging the bearing. The proof is right there in this video!!
I'm glad I didn't fall for the slappy truck hype. I love the ace af1s. Such a soild truck. I also never use spacers or shields or lube. Like my board LOUD!
I use spacers because they come with all of the skateboards I've owned, or that I pieced together. I crank the nut down hard & then back it off 1, 1.5 or 2 mm.... I figured it was designed that way, so I'm keeping it like that.
I used Bronson Bearings with the spacers with Indys on OJ Wheels (58mm 95a) and lo and behold... it works absolutely perfectly together. You can tighten it all the way down and it spins absolutely perfect. I would also think on the smaller spitfire classics, you would never be able to achieve this because they are just way too thin?
Yeah my spacers that came with my g2s don't fit my minilogos correctly sadly. But I mean a little space is better than a lot of space. Injust don't tighten it down all the way
So I was digging around in my skate box, and I happen to stumble upon a gem lucky 7 bearings 😮I forgot how smooth these are I’m loving them with the spacers 😊
I'm currently using them on some dragons. I would also use them on any softer, core-less cruiser wheel. I feel softer wheels are more prone to rotating a little bit on the axis they're not supposed to because they can indent the softer urethane.
I just started skating again after a 12 year hiatus. I keep breaking bearings doing backside flips on a little pyramid. Was told spacers would prevent them from breaking with that side load (probably cuz my rotation isn’t perfect) and since I put the spacers in I haven’t broke a bearing yet 🤷🏻♂️ I don’t fully tighten them though just leave maybe a mm or less when I tighten them. I broke a couple sets of reds, Bronson raws, and andales
I ride bones wheels with spacers on my bronson raws. I used to go through bearings crazy fast.. Never had the issues youve explained with using them. Spacers help my bearing last longer. They roll consistently better for much longer than without. And I wear headphones so the sound isnt an issue for me. But yeah skateboarding is weird like that.
Alot of the older wheel designs transfered over from loose ball and were much wider in nature compared to todays stanards;So the molds had a much deeper/wider core, the spacer helps to keep bearings square and centered in the wheel; Though it seems modern wheels dont require them so much if any being much more narrow. Speaking back on older setups another issue was without spacers,sinking or over seating the bearings and that can end ugly lol... Personal preference is to use spacers,seated lightly against bearing then back off leaving a little wiggle room so to speak.
I do some with spacers, and some without. I don't use them in a wheel that is 99 or harder, never have and don't think I ever will. I do use them in my soft wheels (97) that I use for some street skating. Those wheels are nice on terrible pavement but it is gets too hot the bearing can dig in a bit.
I like the spacers, they help save the bearings when the wheels take a side impact bailing tricks. Cranking them tight is incorrect for sure, always gotta leave a lil play in em
I use the little spacers to take up the extra space outside of the wheels and on the inside of the big spacers didn’t work properly. It seems to work well for me and it puts the axle but to the end to help the axle from getting blown out and you can’t get the axle nuts on and off
I think if anyone is going to the trouble to use spacers, you ought to be buying wheels that will accommodate them better - something with a non-urethane core (plastic or aluminum) that will minimize the issue with the tight tolerance needed. Spacers are obviously an unnecessary part of a setup, and the minimal gains from having them warrant specific part selection around them. Basically, if you don't care enough to pick parts that work well with spacers, you probably don't need to consider using them in the first place.
I'm slowly replacing my bearings and spacers with built-in spacers as i don't like chatter. Also, I use to measure my spacers with a micrometer and sorted them by size. Start with the smallest one and work your way up until things are snug but not binding.
I used to break a lot of bearings back in the day and tried spacers to see if it helped. It not only didn't help but I probably broke more bearings, especially with the nut tightened down. The really off-putting sound of the board is hard to overlook also.
I had wheel slip a lot in the last three years, where the bearing would shift in the wheel outwards and cause the wheel to stop spinning. I would have to push it back into place with my own two hands using the ground as a stable surface (or PULL the wheel out so the bearing would reseat properly).. It sucked, every powerslide would make one of the back wheels lock up. It had always given that "hair" of play in the wheel (thinking that's just what you do), and use wheel spacers. It wasn't until I watched a "how bearings work" video (several actually), and tried tightening the nuts all the way with both Bones and Spitfire wheels, and they would both just make the wheel not spin. All kinds of theories from the Slap boards, too: Wheel manuf. are cheap and saving money by making the wheels less wide was my favorite theory why wheels did this more often than "back in the day". It wasn't until I only tightened the nut to JUST above too tight: not much play at all... just enough to make a sound if I moved the wheel a fraction of a mm, did I stop having the bearing shift anymore on power slides. And no more locked up wheel. But.... now of course since you said you don't have bearing spacers, I will have to go unscrew the wheels, and pop out one bearing so I can get the spacers out, then rescrew and make the nuts PERFECT again..... THANKS. 😂
😂 I rode them for 10 years no major problems. Been riding without for a few years and no major problems. Don’t see the point in fussing over them when it makes no difference to me.
I love this kind of stuff. I suck at skating and I’m getting older. these tiny things shouldn’t be of concern to me whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Haha. But I still love watching these type of videos.
why are you tightening the wheels so much? maybe I'm an idiot (likely), but I just leave a little slack on every wheel, spacers or not. if a wheel's not spinning as fast as I want (60-360 seconds), I'll loosen it (like at 5:45 in this vid)
I use softer wheels (91-95A) so I need spacers. When I land on my setups without spacers, when the wheel deforms in that split second to absorb the shock, the bearings take the brunt of the impact. I break way less bearings with spacers on.
The spacers are not supposed to touch the wheel core, because that's what slows it down! The spacers should be a bit smaller than the hole, so that the wheels can spin around them freely. The only thing that the spacers should be touching are the inner rings of the bearings to prevent them from spinning. Keep in mind: the bearings balls should run between it's 2 rings, not the whole Bearing on the axle! Neil Hester has a very good video including demonstration on that topic. Go watch it if you don't believe me ;-)
would you say its time for wheels if the wheels cant hold the bearings tight anymore even if the wheels are still in skateable shape not coned out yet ?
Spacers should be left with a tiny bit of play also. They prevent bearing blowout and overtightening damage even if they have a bit of play to them. If you over snug them, they can still slow the wheels by swelling under the tightness pressure, so always leave play.
I use spacers, and I was a little confused by your analysis, but thats because the spacers in my wheels are a little loose ( bronson in spitfire&ojs ), which probably means that its been having not effect on the sound or properties of my skateboard- so technically i skate with none- that is because they don't technically fit right.
Ever since i started skating the feeling and sound of a loose wheels bugged me out. So i always used spacers with an absolutely minor gap so that they're not completely tight. I must say that i don't mind the powerslide bark and i actually kinda like it, but i'd much rather not have my wheels make that weird rattly sound. It psyches me out.
I am so torn on this topic. Spacers should be better, but wheel consistency messes all that up. I am currently using spacers and then loosening a quarter turn or less and making sure the bearings are still only spinning on the outer ring.
I have heard from a longboard skater that you want your wheels to move as little as possible side to side in order to maximize a powerslide. I do a lot of sides in bowls so i tighten my trucks to where they spin freely but have very little movement side to side. I don't use spacers though. I do wonder if you can get longer powerslides with them.
I use spacers and yes they work with my thunders shift axel, but with other wheels it's a big problem if the spacers are smaller than the core of the wheels
I used to love my wheels cranked down as a kid in the 80’s, It gave my board a solid feel with no vibration. However, these days wheels don’t consistently spin when cranked down with spacers. That said, I don’t use em anymore.
I 100% agree they don't do much when cranked down as it adds load to the bearing, however the wheels are inherently soft due to being made of urethane... I use spacers to keep the bearings centered in the same plane as the axle. When you land a trick or slappy, you are putting axial load on both the bearing and the wheel, the less room the bearing races have to wiggle, less likely to have a blowout or seized bearing. The urethane is made to flex way more than the bearing.
The only time I would use spacers is if I was running Bones Swiss with Bones wheels and spacers, most of the time if the brands don't match, the tolerances won't either. The reason for that would be to extend the life of the bearing, in theory land the bearing should take impact more evenly around the central ring with a spacer and with the price of something like a Swiss set of bearings I'd be doing everything to keep them going as long as possible. Would still have them just a bit loose though, can't stand bindy bearings 😅
Engineer who's been skating with spacers since 94 here, they're not designed to crank down so it's a solid connection the whole way through, they're designed so that when you tighten your nuts the normal amount they restrict how much lateral deflection the wheels can put on your bearings when you put any force on them that isn't in the regular plane of rotation. Because urethane is really quite soft when you power slide or nose or tail slide or revert a landing you're able to push the bearing somewhere it doesn't want to go, equivalent to tightening down the nut so far it won't turn. Once you stop doing that and start rolling normally again it goes back to where it was, but it's been damaged slightly. Spacers limit how much deflection is possible (say 0.5mm instead of 2-3mm) which keeps your bearings from being damaged as easily. If you just tighten them like you would without spacers you get that protection and it doesn't sound or feel any different. 👍
... I do not even understand why ben would say this but he is a new school skater a lot of his generation do not understand the correct principles of the design....😮
It's such a simple point. Yes the spacers might not fully engage if the nut is not fully tightened. But while skating under high pressure the spacer will support the bearing to some degree.
Having no spacer gives no support in any circumstance
But in a perfect wheel you SHOULD be able to crank the nut all the way down. Longboarders often do this.
@@Just_SK8 You shouldn't be cranking on it. Excessive torque applied will have the cages/races under constant / excessive stress, where they have a lesser range of protection under normal skateboarding conditions, i.e. riding and tricks, increasing wear / reducing life of bearing. The protection provided is during the lateral shift to help distribute the force applied evenly on the sides of the cages/races.
@@sammarithinang_pannarith yes the race ways are the ditch in which the ball bearing rolls deep...
Funny that the reason you don't like spacers is the reason I actually like them. I like my wheels as tight as possible and hate that 'rattley' sound from them when you drop your board to the ground. I like the 'log' sound haha. Each to their own I guess.
It takes all types 🙂
@@bendegros That's what makes skating so beautiful
@Ben Degros did you ever see the Rat Vision vid on spacers? Really shows the science behind it.
You absolute freak
@BSN P1X5L That‘s exactly my opinion, too 😁
When I was younger I never rode with spacers. Now I use spacers and I love how quiet they are skating especially on smooth surfaces.
Spacers make your bearings stronger. In my younger days, in the 80's and 90's, we destroyed lots of bearings when we didn't use spacers, because we did lots of power slides. It would cave in the bearings. You tighten it snug, then back off the nut 1/4 to 1/2 a turn.
In my opinion the benefit of spacer is that they protect your bearings from completely getting ripped apart.
When you land on the side of your wheel, not all the way to primo on the axle you apply a lot of force to the outer bearing solely if you have no spacer. You can basically make the bigger and smaller rings of the bearing shift apart too far and snap the whole bearing. When you have a spacer the same force is distributed between both the inner and outer bearing. This means that the chance of disintegrating your bearings is way smaller.
The few times I didn't add a spacer , I ended up crushing the outer bearing on one of my wheels.
I feel like you focused too much on the sound of the board. My board has spacers and sounds like a skateboard + screams when sliding. I have just left a bit of play like you would as well when you ride no spacer.
Riding the spacers loose does not defeat the benefit I talk about above at all.
Kind of confused nobody is talking about this aspect of spacers haha
You said the exact stuff I was going to say, I'm glad you did because now I don't have to write any of it. Yeah he missed the fact that even if you do leave your spacer a little bit loose, the bearing will still be protected in the event of a hard side impact. When I install a wheel/bearing assembly with a spacer included, I'd like to tighten it down till everything's press together really tight then I back it off till the assembly can slide back and forth a little bit, then I gently tighten it back down until it juuuuuuuuusssst barely stops sliding back and forth.
why would you sand bag your bearings
Thank you
😂😂😂 sound of the wheel??? That's what skateboarding has become 😮
Usually agree with you Ben, but I definitely use spacers! A couple things to note - you shouldn’t crank it down until it torques the balls against the races, with or without spacers. Wheels are notoriously made with poor QC, so there are issues with thickness of the inside - one way to fix this is to add a speed ring next to the spacer if the spacer is not long enough and you do want to crank it down. However, I back it off a quarter turn once the nut touches the bearing to bring back a bit of the rattle and sliding sound. I don’t think it needs to engage tightly at all times to work - when you’re sliding, you’re putting pressure on the wheel sideways, torquing the inner races against the balls and outer race, and the spacers help to reinforce the bearings as a unit against that force instead of having each one take on the pressure separately.
Too much madness..
bearings should be snug not tight, clearly toddlers with some metal pieces
I love the sound of my board being nice and solid. I use spacers, with washers. I also run the Bronson Raws and have lasted over 2 years now.
All powell wheel cores are designed for Bones Race Reds. Powell dragons + Race Reds are a great combination, our neighbours love them and they last a lot longer plus no washers needed very quick wheel swaps with a power drill.
I think one of the main issues people run into with spacers if they over tighten things down and actually crush the spacers and mushroom them because they aren't strong enough. They really should be a super strong steel or similar material to the axles, but they are usually aluminum and easy to deform. Spacers even when not fully tightened up with slack in the wheels will still sound the same as without spacers though and still have some benefits in my opinion.
But definitely depends on specific spacers and wheels for sure.
I am team spacers with tiny bit of slack for the reason you mentioned. Skateboard parts need some room to expand and breathe. Like just enough wiggle in the wheel to feel but not really shift a lot.
My spacers always used to mushroom.
@@bendegros that's so wild to me. Didn't know spacers could mushroom like that has that's never happened to me in my....five(?) Years of using them now. Been skating for a few decades. Lol
That is interesting for sure. I never noticed it with my spacers, but I can see how the structural integrity can be easily altered from the forces of skating. In that case, of course they are only going to be dead weight on the board since it would be too narrow to touch anything!
I only used 1 set of spacers for exactly that reason. They mushroomed pretty quickly and I wondered why I couldn't crank them down all the way.
Makes sense that they would if they were made of some soft material. I probably already destroyed them when I put them on for the first time (breaking stuff by cranking it too much is something that has happened to me a lot ^^)
@@cjchavez19 it will be pretty subtle but if you compare them to new spacers you will probably notice it. I’m not sure it really matters though. But point is even if using spacers you shouldn’t ever be cranking down the wheels as tight as possible. With or without spacers.
For me it depends on the context. On a longboard I’m riding precision trucks, wheels with cores, spacers and bearings with tight tolerances. With proper gear spacers are essential. On my Florida boy Foy setup I’m riding dry bearings with no shields and no way spacers for the sound as mentioned. I think both opinions are valid.
Exactly what it is. The sound. The speed. The center part of the wheel is the thing. I don't have it figured it out. But just set up a board with spacers and some wiggle room. Sounds amazing.
This is funny. I did a pro-spacer video on my channel a few years ago. It's still one of my highest viewed videos and I do an array of content, not just skate content. A lot of the contrary comments were similar to your objections. One about wheel bark (though I've still had plenty of wheel bark with spacers sometimes, depending on the wheel). One about inconsistent wheel inner core sizes making the bearings stick out the sides of the wheel. You do have to have good, well-lubricated/maintained bearings to use them. Definitely things you have to consider if you skate newer wheels or certain brands. I still think though, if you have an old-school setup, do high speeds/downhill or skate freestyle where you do a lot of primo tricks, spacers are a good idea. Great video, as always, Ben. Been a fan of yours for several years.
Rat Vision did a good one many years and it’s got quite a few views. Shows some science behind it all.
Thanks!
Same story for me, I use spacers and have done videos about them on my channel talking about the reasons and the need for accuracy and like yours they have been my highest viewed videos.
People are obviously keen to know more .
One thing that let your test down Ben is that your spacers are evidently too short for your cores so when you tightened them your wheels slowed down, that won’t happen with the right ones (see my videos for examples of mine free spinning fast when fully tight) therefore your rolling felt slow and your bearings will be getting slightly crushed.
My setup is fast and solid and My bearings last me years and years.
Also some people in our skatepark didnt use those little washers on the axle. My skate OCD tells me to run two inside and one outside of the wheel. It rolls better, your axle wont be grinded down and maybe it helps with the grind lock a tiny little bit. Never wrecked my axle threads ever since.
Thank you. I'm going to try this!
I used to skate without them and after a few years I tried em. Since then, I always use them. You have to leave a little gap for the wheel, just a tiny little rattle. Board feels and works better that way. My opinion… I use Bones wheels and never had any problems. Without there spacers, my bearings were dead much faster
But if you leave a gap then what's the point? I mean, I do the exact same thing but I wasn't sure if it does anything with the gap
@@will5430 have you ever had a wheel where the bearing fits super loose and falls out? That's from not using spacers. Even if there's a tiny gap with a spacer you are still stopping the wheel from mushrooming inside when it takes impact. Ben just doesn't know what he's talking about on this one 😂
Torqued way to tight, get them snug and your board will sound the same. Also keeps them in true as the tolerances of the axle aren’t perfect.
@@mr.mcmagpie6606 HERESY! BAN THE NON-BELIEVER!!!
ua-cam.com/video/gPVBRc4-nTQ/v-deo.html
Rat Vision did a very good vid to show the science behind it all. If the spacer doesn’t match the inner core of the wheel they’re pointless. I ride them and get ones that are too big and file them down a milimeter or two to precise size.
I was looking for this comment. I'm so relieved to know I'm not the only one. Thinking about the amount of axial loading that those poor, spacer-less bearings are forced to endure is about enough to make me cry😢
@@joshwood241 yep same here. Wish I knew all this back in late 90’s early 2000’s. When I was scraping by with zero money for new bearings and I even used to put the forbidden spray on them like a dum dum…..wd-40🤯
Hello! Can you please let me know how you measure their precision? Because I also get this feeling that something is wrong where my spacer feels like it's pushing the bearings out of the socket.. I ride for long distance.. So every 3~5 km depending on how rough the road is I need to pick up the board and clam the wheels to ensure they're nice and snug again and voila feels new. Max speeds again. I want to cut that clam process out of my riding though😂
@@memorysometimers3067best lube for speed is silicon
I truly understand what you mean about the way a board sounds, if my set-up doesn't only feel but sound right I can't not stand it, I can skate it but I will do everything in my power to fix it immediately.
My thoughts are bearings don’t sell if they don’t wear out. The wheel makers have had plenty of time to get center spacing consistent. They just are not going to. At his point in my life I only ride bearings with built in spacers and high tolerance hard cored wheels. I ride $15 Zealous steel built in’s over Swiss with separate spacers for the last few years and I’ve tried them all at all prices for over forty years… out of transparency though , I have not rode hard sub 56mm wheels for over 20 years. Modern size wheels are just not doable at my age and long declining skill level. At this point smooth and fast is the hard rule. Another great video. Keep ‘em coming. One of the best skate related channels out there.
Thanks 😊!
I spent a few years trying to get spacers and a snug wheel nut to work after getting fed up with axle slip. Finally cracked it and have all my wheels working perfectly on 6 set ups.
Some of the things I found out on the way are:
The perfect torque on a wheel nut is 5 Newton Meters. Tight enough to cut through the Nyloc but not too tight to deform the spacer.
Wheel quality is everything. Had good luck with Slime Balls, OJ's, Ricta and Bones.
New wheels sometimes have slightly too much width in the core. This soon goes away with a few skates as the bearings settle into the wheel, actually putting an imprint into the core.
You may need to lube the wheel core (wipe a tiny amount of bearing oil around the bearing seats) to properly seat the bearings. Some wheels are mega tight to get those bearings in!
When you tighten the wheel nut fully sometimes the wheel won't spin very well, usually all it needs is for you to pull / push the wheel hard with the board on it's side to get those bearings seated and spinning right.
Aluminium bearing spacers are better than steel. I guess it's because it's easier to work aluminium precisely and more exact than steel. All the steel ones I have have been cheap and badly made (krooked non parallel faces and poor tolerance).
All being well, the wheel should spin free at very low speeds, even wiggle a tiny amount even with the nut tight.
The low speed test is KING 👑
having a couple mils of play in your wheels also makes such a nice sound when you catch a proper kickflip. I love to hear that pop, catch and puttin it down bolts sound when Im skating
You're right Ben. The spacers need unrealistic precision to function properly.
If you have open bearings, the spacers take up more room in between the bearing seats, so debris has less room to float, causing premature bearing failure.
Even if you get the bearing spacers fit precisely, dirt will cake up between the bearing and spacer, taking away the precision. You notice it during cleaning. The spacer will be stuck to the bearing, almost glued in with dirt.
Now this might be the real reason I take them out...
How do you get dirt inside to begin with? There are shields to prevent it from going inside. If you pop out the shields to remove the spacers you are significantly reducing lifetime of your ball bearings.
There is some folklore out there amongst the less intellectually gifted skaters that "if you take your shields off, the dirt won't accumulate inside but will fly back out" thus making shieldless superior 😂. Kind of like when you go cut some stone with a saw and you decide NOT to use an airmask because the fine stonedust will fly out of your lungs again as you exhale instead of being trapped inside your lungs WITH an airmask. Logic.
@@boepiesnoep7867 😂😂 that's spot on!
@@tride536 I think it's bearing tailings and dry oil build up. Maybe some dirt.
I use spacers but still leave a little room for the wheels/ bearings to move on the axle. I dont think this is a "fingers of flat" type critically important part of your setup. But still enjoy the discussion!
Another video from the boss, much love keep doing what you're doing!
I don’t have any issues using spacers. I also don’t tighten my wheels like a psycho.
😂
LOL dude this showed up at just the right time. I'm just getting back into skating (about the same age as you) and being watching a bunch of your vids for info and working out my new setup. All the stuff arrived today and I was raging because my bearings didn't come packaged with spacers (bronson G3 8Ballrs) I just assumed they would. Went straight to youtube to see what the deal is and this popped up. Good stuff. Your vids are top tier
same to me! i bought the G3 Jaws. was thinking to get a spacer, now im confused if i should get or not. do you skate with or without spacer now?
@@zomkashwak hey I do have them. I ended up buying the Bronson cleaning kit which came w their spacers. They really should include them with the signature sets. The cleaner set is a bit of an expensive way to get them. Most skate shops do sell them seperate I mainly see the bones spacers and they are same size and fine too. In my opinion if you are a lighter weight skater and/ or doing a lot of tricks they don't matter as much as long as you don't mind the different sound/noise the board makes without them. If you are heavier weight and/or use your board more for cruising around then I would definitely recommend them. Hope this helps
@@AA-bh3bz hello! thanks for the fast reply and for the advice. its really helpful and i appreciate it alot. theres local made spacer where i lived i think im gonna get one, hope it’s fits nicely. take care and have fun skating!
I always used them and skated Vert. I think when your trying to do an air and bail throw it down it helped save the bearings from pitting.
Thank you so much for making a video about spacers. I ride them and love them. My wheels spin really well. If I don't use them my board feels like a wobbly shopping trolley.
Two small things.
One: I can tighten my wheels all the way and that makes wheel changes way quicker.
Two: I have two different size spacers and wondered why until a set of filmer wheels I got stick and don't turn. Maybe they need the other size spacer.
I'm willing to bet downhill skaters always use spacers.
I always use them for downhill skating. It makes slides way smoother because the wheel has no wiggle room causing chatter. Tolerances are usually better on downhill wheels because they have plastic inserted cores.
I’ve been messing with the spacers for like two years now since I started buying better bearings. I also wasn’t a fan of the log sound and slow feeling when you have them snuggled up all the way.
I still run them, but with the tiniest amount of wheel jiggle. In my head, they’ll last longer because with a side impact, the spacer should eventually make contact with the bearing and stop some of the impact. Not sure if it’s the spacer or the actual better quality of the bearings, but it seems to be working. Plus you still get to keep that nice skateboard sound.
Worst case scenario is that I’ve been riding around with a tiny bit extra weight haha. Probably just counter balances the silly hollow hardware I have.
I’m on spacers currently because my Ace AF-1 axel nuts loosen up unless they’re fully tightened down. I also just like the feeling of my setup being securely put together. But, yes, I’ve wondered about some of the mechanics, and why spacers occasionally make wheels feel slower. I think you’re right that it’s probably variation in the inner sizing of wheels.
All my friends swear by Ace... Just started using Black AF1's recently and even with Bones Bushings they are extremely loose no matter how much I tightened them (I prefer loose trucks too but it was ridiculous / constant wheel bite)... And the nut would always come loose, but luckily I always caught it before my hangar fell off. Was going to just deal with it but while skating just the other day I looked down and one of my wheels was poking out... The axel nut had come off. Found it but no matter how much I tightened it it would still come off easily just turning it with my fingers... Maybe I got a bad set but I was / am extremely disappointed.
Had the same issues with my Ace's
I think they come off because a good portion of the thread is just re-threader, not the nylon or whatever locks it in
@@joshfeenan7178 If you ride trucks that tight then ace trucks just weren't for you (no offence, just an observation). Also, ace bushings harden up after couple sessions and once you get used to them, they feel loose but stable when you need them to be
@@KharonYT I ride my trucks looser than my friends who swear by Ace (and recommended them) but these were ridiculous... When I first had the stock bushings in they would pull / lock to whatever side I had just leaned too. I was told to put Bones Bushings in by quite a few people familiar with Ace trucks... I have since then seen / heard that a lot of others say just wait it out with the stock bushings (as you mentioned) but I had already tossed them. The axel nut was only one and I could finger tighten it passed the threading (with wheels off). Even when I tightened it down to wear the wheel wasn't rolling it would still come off rather easily. As I mentioned maybe I got a lemon in my set. I skated Trackers then Ventures in the 80's, Indy's in the 90's and early 00's. Only started skating again a few years back after a long hiatus (mostly due to work schedule) and have been rolling Thunders. 46 years old, still rolling
I am a spacer guy lol.
I would break bearings ALL the time when skating. I love to powerslide both frontside and backside. This would cause me to blow the bearings out, I’m talking loose ball bearings flying out and everything. I also had washers on the ends.
I made the change to using spacers and washers and have not broke a bearing since, I do use bone Swiss ceramic bearings but have had the same pair for going on 7 years now, and they are as fast as they have always been. Adding the spacers fixed my issues of blowing out bearings and will continue to use them in every set up going forward.
I keep a very small wiggle room for the wheel as far as tightness goes.
Love your vids and saw you on 9club too, glad to see you making your way! Sending love and positivity from PHX, AZ!
I’ve recently started using spacers again. I feel like my bearings used to last me longer. This might be why.
I think it made mine last way longer! Thanks for the video and response! Have a great one!
It will all work best with spacers that fit right. Using washers can get the clamping force proper. A solid setup is best with everything tight. Loose bearings will always seem faster. Lose bearings wear out quicker. The slop makes it unnoticeable.
The Bronson spacers have worked better with Spitfire wheels for me - they are a little wider/longer than the bones spacers and fill the extra gap.
Bronsons with spacers and Spitfire wheels is also what I ride these days. Also, with the slightest wiggle possible between the wheel and axle nut.
Great channel, I’ve been subscribed almost a year, keep up the great work 😁
The VXB 608ZZ w/Carbon steel Shielded bearings help prevent axle slip. The bearings work just as well as those Shake Junt ones (Night Train).
I use the Bronson bearings with shields and spacers. The standard skate nearing is designed to have all its strength come from up and down force. When you turn or power slide it puts sideways load on the bearing and will blow them out faster without the spacers. When I use them I crank them tight to seat everything then I back the nut off to just before it starts to rattle. By doing this I lessen the amount the inner races can shift and my bearings last nearly forever.
Ok Ben, board with spacers in a wheels just doesn't gring at all. Now i will go and remove my spacers from the wheels. Thank you for this type of advice %)
I have only recently started using spacers. I have no idea why other than my friend kept saying to use them. I took a while to find a set that fitted my wheels and even wheel to wheel they differ. Also that "log" sound you talk of was the goal for all my friends in the 90's. They really strived to have that solid sound and absolutely no rattle on the wheels. I could never achieve it as my bearing always sucked.
I worked at skate shops in the 80s and wheels had to be left a hair loose so they would spin freely. We always used spacers. Powell wheels were most cooperative, but still needed to be left a hair loose.
Spacers to me help keep the wheel’s core/bearing seat from getting torn out from horizontal force, particularly with softer wheels
Imo there is no harm in using spacers and a few cons to not using them
80s skate shops were the best! NMB, German, or Swiss bearings was the options back in the day. I always rode the German bearings.
@@bonerjamz2024lol my brother and I had to have gone through 20 sets of those NMBs 🤣 we loved those things
Just commenting on this to say that ALL truck brands can/will axle slip. I've ridden Venture, Destructo, Thunder, Independent and probably another brand I'm forgetting and all of them had a little axle slip at one point or another. But it really isn't a huge deal. Its usually a fairly easy fix like you demonstrated. I will say tho I definitely prefer wheels with no bearing spacers. To me they just aren't necessary
Definitely suggest spacers for rollerskate wheels because they arent perfect and i found if your doing tricks on two wheels the bearing actually shifts and wears into the wheels causing play. Some might not notice but im very precise and can feel the play. I suggest rollerbones spacers that are smaller than skateboard wheel spacers!
First off, I have never been into spacers either. But now you've got me thinking....
As you mentioned, not all wheel cores are created equal. In the scenario where you're pinching the bearings/making them slower due to the wheels core being to thick...
Maybe try adding a 3rd washer; between the bearings inside the wheel with the spacer? Essentially you make the spacer thicker. That way, hopefully it actually locks the center bearing races to the axle. Allowing the wheel to spin freely
Would totally love it if you felt like nerding out to revisit and test this! 🤙
The one thing worse than the spacer not making contact is if the wheels dont make contact. If the spacer is too wide because you shimmed it, then the wheel will move back and forth over the bearings and can be a huge issue. In that case, its better to go without the spacer so you can get a proper fitment between the wheel and bearings without anything loose.
I go back and forth on this. Most recently, the issue I had when using spacers was this:
Every spacer I tried was just a little bit wider than the core of every spitfire wheel I tried them in. This caused the bearings to never be fully seated in the wheel, always floating towards each outside edge of the wheel just a hair. So, if my wheel took a sideways hit, or if I locked into a 50-50 too hard, the outer bearing in a given wheel would pop out of the wheel even further and would be so tight up against the outer speed washer that it would cause the wheel to spin much more slowly, to the point where I could absolutely tell that I needed to push harder to go anywhere. I can't imagine that friction is good for any part of the skateboard.
I’ve gone back to my tried and true Reds with no spacers and some wiggle. I’ll just replace them when they blow up on me.
whenever i can use them with them working, i do. ideally they should be a slight bit wider than the wheel core, just a hair, so they make contact without pinching the cores but not so much wider that the bearings don't seat fully. i'm probably with you in that even when i use them i don't crank on them super tight, so maybe it's not doing anything but giving me unwarranted peace of mind. i didn't notice the duller sound until you mentioned it, i blamed the wood, but i do think i have spacers on that board. they do seem to make bearings last longer, anecdotally anyway.
I use them, also extra speed rings on the inside, gives you just a hair more of useable hanger on each side.
Started skating in like 1990 in California. All my years never skated spacers or even had a friend ride em. Heck not even sure I've ever even seen em!? 😆🤷♂️ once I saw they took away power slide squeals, all I needed to know, I love my 🐖🔊
Looking good on those Aces Ben! 🙂
I press my bearings into the wheels with a press, to make sure they are aligned properly. If you tighten the nut down to squeese the bearings together, the outer race might get skewed. Then you get that uneven sound. Spintest is not very good either. Under load is what matters.
I do use spacers, but I also size them to the core of the wheels.
I also snug them down and then loosen 1/4 turn so I have the least amount of friction possible.
It’s the best of both worlds imo.
Everyone loves to say that the bearings don't engage when the wheel isn't tightened all the way. But the difference in sound during your powerslide demonstration is proof that they DO engage. Provided the gap between the spacer and bearings is small enough, it will most certainly close when enough force is put on the wheel such as a powerslide. Thus engaging the bearing. The proof is right there in this video!!
I'm glad I didn't fall for the slappy truck hype. I love the ace af1s. Such a soild truck. I also never use spacers or shields or lube. Like my board LOUD!
I use spacers because they come with all of the skateboards I've owned, or that I pieced together. I crank the nut down hard & then back it off 1, 1.5 or 2 mm....
I figured it was designed that way, so I'm keeping it like that.
Your power slides instantly got better with spacers. Funny how this video instantly shifted towards a ace vs slappy trucks review haha
I used Bronson Bearings with the spacers with Indys on OJ Wheels (58mm 95a) and lo and behold... it works absolutely perfectly together. You can tighten it all the way down and it spins absolutely perfect.
I would also think on the smaller spitfire classics, you would never be able to achieve this because they are just way too thin?
Yeah my spacers that came with my g2s don't fit my minilogos correctly sadly. But I mean a little space is better than a lot of space. Injust don't tighten it down all the way
So I was digging around in my skate box, and I happen to stumble upon a gem lucky 7 bearings 😮I forgot how smooth these are I’m loving them with the spacers 😊
Always have a solid connection between your hangar and your nuts👍🏼
I'm currently using them on some dragons. I would also use them on any softer, core-less cruiser wheel. I feel softer wheels are more prone to rotating a little bit on the axis they're not supposed to because they can indent the softer urethane.
This is one of the most important skate videos. Better than Photosynthesis. A plus.
I just started skating again after a 12 year hiatus. I keep breaking bearings doing backside flips on a little pyramid. Was told spacers would prevent them from breaking with that side load (probably cuz my rotation isn’t perfect) and since I put the spacers in I haven’t broke a bearing yet 🤷🏻♂️ I don’t fully tighten them though just leave maybe a mm or less when I tighten them. I broke a couple sets of reds, Bronson raws, and andales
Awesome vid Ben, Thanks man!
Ben you legend. nobody else could make this stuff interesting !
It’s because I’m always spewing my hot takes that are contrary to what you might expect from me.
I ride bones wheels with spacers on my bronson raws. I used to go through bearings crazy fast.. Never had the issues youve explained with using them. Spacers help my bearing last longer. They roll consistently better for much longer than without. And I wear headphones so the sound isnt an issue for me. But yeah skateboarding is weird like that.
spacers and "speed rings" are a must have for me
Twat is a speed ring?
I have them in a big old pool/cruiser because that came with them but I didn't even think to crank them down. You need a little wiggle.
Alot of the older wheel designs transfered over from loose ball and were much wider in nature compared to todays stanards;So the molds had a much deeper/wider core, the spacer helps to keep bearings square and centered in the wheel; Though it seems modern wheels dont require them so much if any being much more narrow. Speaking back on older setups another issue was without spacers,sinking or over seating the bearings and that can end ugly lol... Personal preference is to use spacers,seated lightly against bearing then back off leaving a little wiggle room so to speak.
This is why I loved the plastic cored wheels of the 2000s. God I miss them 😪
Sick little futsal court!
I do some with spacers, and some without. I don't use them in a wheel that is 99 or harder, never have and don't think I ever will. I do use them in my soft wheels (97) that I use for some street skating. Those wheels are nice on terrible pavement but it is gets too hot the bearing can dig in a bit.
I like the spacers, they help save the bearings when the wheels take a side impact bailing tricks. Cranking them tight is incorrect for sure, always gotta leave a lil play in em
I’m happy because you posted
I use the little spacers to take up the extra space outside of the wheels and on the inside of the big spacers didn’t work properly. It seems to work well for me and it puts the axle but to the end to help the axle from getting blown out and you can’t get the axle nuts on and off
I'd love to see a full review of those slappy trucks!
I think if anyone is going to the trouble to use spacers, you ought to be buying wheels that will accommodate them better - something with a non-urethane core (plastic or aluminum) that will minimize the issue with the tight tolerance needed. Spacers are obviously an unnecessary part of a setup, and the minimal gains from having them warrant specific part selection around them. Basically, if you don't care enough to pick parts that work well with spacers, you probably don't need to consider using them in the first place.
I'm slowly replacing my bearings and spacers with built-in spacers as i don't like chatter. Also, I use to measure my spacers with a micrometer and sorted them by size. Start with the smallest one and work your way up until things are snug but not binding.
I used to break a lot of bearings back in the day and tried spacers to see if it helped. It not only didn't help but I probably broke more bearings, especially with the nut tightened down. The really off-putting sound of the board is hard to overlook also.
Those aces handled those slappys pretty well! maybe it’s time to try out some 44 Af1’s 🤔
Which shoes are you skating? The last video with loose trucks looked like the Etnies Rap upper combined with a Marana outsole.
can you do a video on how to rotate wheels?
Dude i love your carpentry stuff, had no idea you were a skater and runned a skate channel 😭
3:00 straight gold
Thanks for making this 🙏
I had wheel slip a lot in the last three years, where the bearing would shift in the wheel outwards and cause the wheel to stop spinning. I would have to push it back into place with my own two hands using the ground as a stable surface (or PULL the wheel out so the bearing would reseat properly).. It sucked, every powerslide would make one of the back wheels lock up.
It had always given that "hair" of play in the wheel (thinking that's just what you do), and use wheel spacers. It wasn't until I watched a "how bearings work" video (several actually), and tried tightening the nuts all the way with both Bones and Spitfire wheels, and they would both just make the wheel not spin. All kinds of theories from the Slap boards, too: Wheel manuf. are cheap and saving money by making the wheels less wide was my favorite theory why wheels did this more often than "back in the day".
It wasn't until I only tightened the nut to JUST above too tight: not much play at all... just enough to make a sound if I moved the wheel a fraction of a mm, did I stop having the bearing shift anymore on power slides. And no more locked up wheel.
But.... now of course since you said you don't have bearing spacers, I will have to go unscrew the wheels, and pop out one bearing so I can get the spacers out, then rescrew and make the nuts PERFECT again..... THANKS. 😂
😂 I rode them for 10 years no major problems. Been riding without for a few years and no major problems. Don’t see the point in fussing over them when it makes no difference to me.
Haha,
Oh and I thought for sure you were about to roll around on just the bearings with no wheels for a second 🤣
I love this kind of stuff. I suck at skating and I’m getting older. these tiny things shouldn’t be of concern to me whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Haha. But I still love watching these type of videos.
Great vid! Do you have one by any chance on big wheels vs little wheels?(since you mentionned switching to bigger wheels at the end there)
why are you tightening the wheels so much? maybe I'm an idiot (likely), but I just leave a little slack on every wheel, spacers or not. if a wheel's not spinning as fast as I want (60-360 seconds), I'll loosen it (like at 5:45 in this vid)
I use softer wheels (91-95A) so I need spacers. When I land on my setups without spacers, when the wheel deforms in that split second to absorb the shock, the bearings take the brunt of the impact. I break way less bearings with spacers on.
I thought I was crazy until I figured out that there is no consistency with wheel cores. I’m done with spacers now. Thank you!
The spacers are not supposed to touch the wheel core, because that's what slows it down! The spacers should be a bit smaller than the hole, so that the wheels can spin around them freely. The only thing that the spacers should be touching are the inner rings of the bearings to prevent them from spinning. Keep in mind: the bearings balls should run between it's 2 rings, not the whole Bearing on the axle!
Neil Hester has a very good video including demonstration on that topic. Go watch it if you don't believe me ;-)
would you say its time for wheels if the wheels cant hold the bearings tight anymore even if the wheels are still in skateable shape not coned out yet ?
Spacers should be left with a tiny bit of play also. They prevent bearing blowout and overtightening damage even if they have a bit of play to them. If you over snug them, they can still slow the wheels by swelling under the tightness pressure, so always leave play.
This is a Urethane molding issue more than an issue with Bearing races or spacers, the axle aligns both, along with the speed ring washers
I use spacers, and I was a little confused by your analysis, but thats because the spacers in my wheels are a little loose ( bronson in spitfire&ojs ), which probably means that its been having not effect on the sound or properties of my skateboard- so technically i skate with none- that is because they don't technically fit right.
Ever since i started skating the feeling and sound of a loose wheels bugged me out. So i always used spacers with an absolutely minor gap so that they're not completely tight. I must say that i don't mind the powerslide bark and i actually kinda like it, but i'd much rather not have my wheels make that weird rattly sound. It psyches me out.
I run 3 washers on the inside, bearing, Bones V6 STF, bearing, acer racing lock slim profile lock nut. I still get the perfect bark.
I am so torn on this topic. Spacers should be better, but wheel consistency messes all that up. I am currently using spacers and then loosening a quarter turn or less and making sure the bearings are still only spinning on the outer ring.
I have heard from a longboard skater that you want your wheels to move as little as possible side to side in order to maximize a powerslide. I do a lot of sides in bowls so i tighten my trucks to where they spin freely but have very little movement side to side. I don't use spacers though. I do wonder if you can get longer powerslides with them.
Probably. The reverb definitely slows you down.
I use spacers and yes they work with my thunders shift axel, but with other wheels it's a big problem if the spacers are smaller than the core of the wheels
Venture and Spitfire no Problem
I used to love my wheels cranked down as a kid in the 80’s, It gave my board a solid feel with no vibration. However, these days wheels don’t consistently spin when cranked down with spacers. That said, I don’t use em anymore.
Honestly, sometimes I use spacer and sometimes not. Even after 30 years I never really see the different !
I 100% agree they don't do much when cranked down as it adds load to the bearing, however the wheels are inherently soft due to being made of urethane... I use spacers to keep the bearings centered in the same plane as the axle. When you land a trick or slappy, you are putting axial load on both the bearing and the wheel, the less room the bearing races have to wiggle, less likely to have a blowout or seized bearing. The urethane is made to flex way more than the bearing.
The only time I would use spacers is if I was running Bones Swiss with Bones wheels and spacers, most of the time if the brands don't match, the tolerances won't either. The reason for that would be to extend the life of the bearing, in theory land the bearing should take impact more evenly around the central ring with a spacer and with the price of something like a Swiss set of bearings I'd be doing everything to keep them going as long as possible.
Would still have them just a bit loose though, can't stand bindy bearings 😅
Ben you should come back to Victoria, the new parks Topaz, Langford and Sidney all got built recently. It would be sick to see you review them.