Sisi's Legacy: The truth about Empress Elisabeth |History Stories Special
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- In 1955, Romy Schneider stepped into the spotlight, in her breakout role of Empress Elisabeth in the "Sissi" trilogy. This iconic portrayal would become the cornerstone of Schneider's illustrious career and achieve cult status, but who was the real Sisi?
On this History Stories Special we travel through the annals of history as we delve into the extraordinary life and enduring influence of the real Empress Elisabeth, fondly known as "Sisi." Born on December 24, 1837, in Munich, Bavaria, Sisi's story is one of beauty, independence, and profound tragedy. Sisi ascended to become Empress of Austria and Queen of Hungary through her union with Emperor Franz Joseph I in 1854. Her legacy took a poignant turn with the heart-wrenching loss of her only son, Crown Prince Rudolph, in 1889. This event not only brought personal sorrow but also reshaped the course of her lineage's claim to the throne.
Despite the challenges, Sisi's influence remained unwavering, leaving an indelible mark on European aristocratic circles. With an impressive lineage that boasts 15 grandchildren, 58 great-grandchildren, and a host of great-great-grandchildren, Sisi's descendants wove intricate connections across noble dynasties akin to the descendants of Queen Victoria.
On this History Stories Special, we unveil the multifaceted layers of Empress Elisabeth's legacy. Her influence endures not only in the aristocratic echelons but also in the hearts of those intrigued by one of history's most captivating personalities.
#dwhistoryandculture
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00:00 Intro
01:25 Sisi's imposed role in the royal society
07:12 The fate of Sisi's daughter Sophie
09:25 The true family life of Sisi and Franz
22:00 Sisi's difficult relationship to her daughters
28:14 The life and mind of Sisi's son, Rudolf
35:41 Elisabeth, Rudolf's revolutionary daughter
39:50 The death of Sisi and the world after
The effort they put into finding actors who look like the people they are portraying--or certainly echo them strongly--is impressive.
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Yes I thought so too.
😅I always appreciate that.
@@DWHistoryandCulturehĥĥɓĥɓĥhɓĥɓhĥhhĥhĥhbhhɓbbĥɓɓhhhhbɓbbhhhbhhhbhhhhhbbbhɓɓɓhĥhhhhbĥĥĥĥbbɓhhhhbhĥbbhhhbbhĥbbhbbbbbĥĥbbbhbbbhhĥĥĥĥhɓhĥĥĥĥĥhĥhĥɓĥĥĥĥĥĥĥɓɓ Nb
Far better than Hollywood, where casting is dictated by nepotism and wokeness.
I've studied Sissi for a long time. She was a very mentally ill woman who was married at an extremely young age. She likely had borderline personality disorder. Empress Sophie, Franz Joseph's mother, and Sissi's own maternal Aunt, took Sissi's children from her and forbade her from mothering them. Sophie also begrudged Siss's inability to get pregnant in the first few years. I dislike how this documentary acts like Sissi was an absent mother considering 1) she was a literal teenager/young adult when giving birth to these children 2) she was forbidden from mothering them by Sophie, and 3) she suffered severe eating disorders and mental illness. Sissi was not perfect by any means, but this whole discussion of her comes across as blaming and accusatory. Do better.
Yeah absolutely agree with you. This documentary was one sided .
Tyvm for standing up ⬆️
Tyvm
💜🕊
@@ingybingymaritz
Tyvm for standing up ⬆️
Tyvm
a lot of effort was put in this doc.....the result is still boring and one-sided...what a pity.
Agreed! It is also very telling that BPD and anorexia are often caused by trauma and a lack of control over one's own life, respectively.
I always have a bone to pick when videos about Sisi are made. I’ve yet to find one that illustrates just how terrible a husband Franz Joseph was to her. Yes he loved her, but not enough to support her and protect her from his awful mother. He let his mom steal Sisi’s children from her. He witnessed her decline in mental health due to this and other factors and wouldn’t do anything to help the woman he claimed to love dearly. He was a perpetual mamma’s boy and never put his wife first in my opinion.
Thanks for watching. We appreciate you sharing your perspective with us and the community. However, we should note that during that era, it was not customary for children to remain with their parents. Royal children were typically educated by teachers and governesses and did not have close relationships with their parents. So, Sisi's case is not an exception. Nevertheless, it is quite challenging to comprehend from today's standpoint.
Agree! Her mother in law had great influence in Franz Joseph. He sided by his mother who from the beginning disputed Sisi's place as the empress and as a mother. Her mother in law was in total control. Sisi was a teenager left alone inside an old fashion, full of formalities and toxic imperial court. In my opinion, she had no choice but to flee from that place.
@@egtweb it is fascinating, isn’t it? It seems the whole family was very dysfunctional. I wished we could read Sisi’s diaries that remain under lock and key. It would bring a lot of light into her side of the story. I agree, it just seems as if there is something missing from the story after seeing this documentary.
@@RoxanneM- And what is missing is her part of the story. I totally agree. I also think those diaries will help to clarify even more the entire story.
@@DWHistoryandCulture Have you watched the BBC series "A Fall of Eagles"?
How intriguing! A young woman, both beautiful and wealthy, who dared to shape her life in accordance with her own desires and needs. Let's label her as as vain, difficult and mentally ill. The way I see it, she was savvy enough to break free from a failed marriage, an overbearing mother-in-law, she was savvy enough to make a fortune with her investments and lived by her own rules. Kudos to her for seizing control of her life, and I sincerely hope she discovered some happiness in her extensive travels.
The video failed to mention that Sophie, Franz Josef’s mother, took Sisi’s children from her right from birth. She even presumed to name their first child after herself. Sisi never stood a chance to mother her children.
Except she insisted that same child travel while gravely I'll. She did "mother" her last child and what is described is horrific abuse.
@@amdayfhggie2665 there was no abuse. She probably knew Sophie was going to die very shortly, and didn't want her to die without at least one parent there. From the sound of it, Sophie would have died then, no matter where she was.
@deathbycheese850 there was a great deal of abuse. She said very cruel things to her older daughter and behaved very coldly to her older living children. It would have been better for her to remain neglectful than pop in and be cruel.
What she did to her youngest daughter is called emotional incest and parentification.
The stories of her children are the real tragedy.
That's quite the interpretation you have there. Wouldn't a good mother have put the needs of her child 1st and left the child in the place and the people she was familiar with?
Thank you for sharing your various perspectives. We find it intriguing to follow your discussions. Just a small note: In the imperial and royal circles of the 19th century, it was customary for children to be raised not by their parents, but by governesses and teachers. Nevertheless, Sisi's behavior towards her children can be criticized.
that is not horriffic by any measurement. it isn't the best, but not at all "horriffic" or are you unaware of real child abuse that's truly horriffic? sounds like it. @@amdayfhggie2665
As much as I am also interested in Sissi, I feel like she remains popular in the media mainly because of the halo affect. My first exposure to her was a 2000s kids cartoon called Princess Sissi.
Sissi was a stunning and fashionable woman that married young and lived in splendour. This alone gives filmmakers the template to superimpose all sorts of romantic and dramatic stories upon her that appeal to modern audiences. However, beyond the surface she was greatly troubled with mental health issues. She was almost a hermit and had a greatly strained marriage. Overall, she was glamourous but had very little agency. Her story isnt a fairytale, it is a tragedy.
She made sure to pass it on to her children. Taking special effort to be cruel to the daughter that didn't look like her. It was a tragedy for her but way moreso for her children.
Beauty taken as virtue is a terrible error.
@charliesmith_ she had a great deal more freedom than most people have today. You know being an adult with responsibilities and all...
@@amdayfhggie2665 Fortunately, her husband gave the freedom she craved. Few monarchs would have.
@@michaelplunkett8059 yet she still endlessly pouted and felt bad for herself.
Here, here!
It is very pleasant to see the clips of Romy Schneider playing the Empress Elizabeth, as she was a very beautiful, intelligent and vastly talented actress who died far too young.
Yes. I love Romy Schneider.
And Franz Josef never stood up to his mother on behalf of Sisi. She may have had her issues, but she didn’t stand a chance against her formidable mother-in-law.
Did she have to kidnap her 1st child so she could take the gravely ill infant into a situation that caused the baby's death?
@@amdayfhggie2665she wanted to see her child, but sadly the child ended up dying. She did feel guilty over her child’s death
Sisi's mother in law was a far greater politician than Sisi could ever have been. They were related by blood as well as matrimony , and it is a shame that Sisi did not inherit the same abilities as her Mother in Law. If she had, Sisi would have been a far better Empress than she was and may have been able to steer Austria Hungary in a different direction, possibly even avoiding the catastrophes leading up to the first World War.
Thank you for sharing your various perspectives. We find it intriguing to follow your discussions. Just a small note: Sisi married into the imperial family; her husband, Franz Joseph, inherited the throne and held the political leadership. As (his) wife, Sisi had very little room for maneuver and held no political role. Everything that could have happened remains speculative.
@YPRJF best to not risk messing one's hair up I guess.
I'd also heard that Franz Joseph was "supposed" to marry Sisi's older sister but Franz was bowled over by Sisi's beauty and picked her instead. I don't suppose Sisi had much say in the matter and was unprepared for marriage, much less all the baggage that came with being Empress in a family which lived in a stuffy, aristocratic bubble. Then the mother-in-law berated her during the first few years of her marriage for not getting pregnant right away. When she started producing children the mother in law whisks the first three away in infancy. The youngest daughter was the only one of her children she was "allowed" to raise so no wonder the girl never left her mother's side. Hungary was an escape from her hated life in Vienna. As for Sisi's obsession with her looks and weight, it was the only thing she had control over. Mental illness? Maybe, but the mother-in-law certainly made her contribution to that.
She could have been 100% free. All she had to do was stand on her own two feet like the peasants... in Hungary even!
She did have a say. It was not a forced marriage in fact most of the adults (her mother-in-law and her own mother) were against it so if she didn't want to marry Franz she should have just told him to leave her alone and not bow to his pressure, she would have had the support of her mother and aunt for goodness sake. Her and her husband wrecking their children's lives and still having the audacity to have a Pikachu face afterwards is peak entitlement. Don't have a smidge of sympathy for someone so repulsive. Just because she's unhappy with how her life turned out doesn't mean she or him should pass on that generational curse to their children.
@@queen-estherobasi4086 absolutely agree.
@@queen-estherobasi4086 that's a very modern, black and white view of the situation. By all accounts, Franz Joseph was OBSESSED with her. And when the EMPEROR is obsessed with you, do you REALLY have a choice? She was a woman in the 19th century - an aristocratic woman. She did not have the option to just 'say no'. She was also deeply mentally unwell for most of her life, which definitely affected her relationships with everyone around her, including her children. She was in distress, surrounded by people who actively hated her, in a time period where 'mental health' meant nothing except you being 'wrong' in some way. Whilst she was by no means a saint, I'd hardly call her 'repulsive'. She was a product of her time and the society she lived in.
@@xessenceofinsanityx Don't call her repulsive if it suits you I call her repulsive because she was just that. Franz was quite literally the puppet of his mother believe me she could have said no and appealed to his mother who would've gladly put him in his place. And Franz was the Emperor of Austria and as a result Sissi was not his direct subject, pressure and force are not the same thing. Spare me the "modern take" excuse I know how to judge historical characters based on their own time period and I'll tell you now that no amount of historical context could make Sissi look anything but a repulsive human being.
I’ve always wondered how Sisi was able eat so little and not suffer from hair loss due to lack of vitamins.
Tragic all around. Sisi never stood a chance if you ask me...not with an overpowering mother in law and strict court life. She controlled the only things she could, her weight and looks. She took to us the Hungarians because we represented a strong character that doesn't give in come hell or high water. Us Hungarians, we genuinely loved her because she understood us and advocated on our behalf. May she RIP
Controlling her weight and looks since it's all she could control reminds me of something I heard about princess Diana
@@TheTee5231976 RIP lovely Diana. She might indeed have been another young lady caught in the pressure of court life and intrigue.
Her mother in law took the children away from SiSi by her mother in law so of course she could not make a good relationship with her children.
SiSi came from the small Monarchy of bayern.
They had planned for her sister to marry the emperor but he chose SiSi.
She sure did! She also (allegedly) left a pamphlet on Sisi's desk stating "The natural destiny of a Queen is to give an heir to the throne. If the Queen is so fortunate as to provide the State with a Crown-Prince this should be the end of her ambition - she should by no means meddle with the government of an Empire, the care of which is not a task for women... If the Queen bears no sons, she is merely a foreigner in the State, and a very dangerous foreigner, too. For as she can never hope to be looked on kindly here, and must always expect to be sent back whence she came, so will she always seek to win the King by other than natural means; she will struggle for position and power by intrigue and the sowing of discord, to the mischief of the King, the nation, and the Empire..."
😨😨😨@@RemiSwanson
To be fair, it was not at all unusual for noble children to see little or nothing of their parents. They were very often pawns in advancing or consolidating the family's power.
It wasn't at all unusual for marriages to be arranged when children were infants.
Sisi herself had been handed over in such a marriage. She may not even have liked her husband yet had to be bred by him as if she were a pedigreed mare.
It's recorded that her oldest child died in her arms, and that Sisi fell into a very deep state of mourning.
It's not surprising that a fragile young woman drew ever deeper into
herself and sought escape.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Sisi's life definitely wasn't an easy one.
you are right I mean Look at queen Victoria, Tzarina Alexadra, Queen Mary of teck I mean we can keep going.
It was presented in other documentaries that it was her mother in law who basically took over the children and did not allow Sissy to raise them herself. If that was true I wouldn’t stay around either with no say in the lives of my own children.
That's who Sophie was. And yeah, I'd say "Get lost!" too! It's amazing how warped their ideas on children were! Even when I was a child in the 1960s, a lot of people had really hardline ideas.
My British mother and Scots descended grandmother were like army Generals. So I rebelled like crazy! I went wild in rebellion to it, which harmed my life in the long run. If they had been reasonable, I wouldn't have needed to rebel so hard! I was never given a reason for anything. "Because I said so." was the only reason I ever got. So of course I knew they didn't have any reasons. It was all just on their whims. Why should I conform to that craziness?!
People, your kids are so much smarter than you think they are. Talk to them, listen to them, and be reasonable, or you and they will all regret it!
@@cattymajiv and Sophie was the same person that complained about Elisabeth’s disappearances and refusal to sped time with her.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
The requirement in UK -is-
was "An heir and a spare"
(withthe daughters being a
bonus and pawns for high-
stakes geopolitical aims)
Sisi seems to have completely left after she was responsible for the death of the oldest child...
Little was made of the fact that the Archduchess Sophie, Aunt and mother-in-law of Sisi, deliberately removed not long after birth the first three children. Sisi after a short period of time lost interest in them. It was only Marie-Valerie that she had any connection with. Archduchess Sophie showed little interest in Marie-Valerie and died in 1872.
Sophie was a real witch. Selfish and cruel.
@@cattymajiv
Sisi was selfish and a neglegent mother.
@@here_we_go_again2571 Actually, Sisi was not *allowed* to be a mother to her first three children. Her mother-in-law, Sophie, physically took each child at birth, installing those first three children in Sophie's distant wing of the palace. (Sophie believed that Sisi was too immature to be a good mother.) It was *Sophie* who chose a sadistic soldier to 'toughen up' Rudolf, so that Rudolf had what amounted to a nervous breakdown as a child. Sisi intervened on Rudolf's behalf, and the sadist was dismissed. Sisi's doting attention to Valerie indicates how her thwarted maternal impulses had morphed into obsessional devotion. Perhaps if Sisi had been granted normal access to all of her children, a different outcome might have been possible....
And she only had a connection to Marie Valerie because Sophie was dead by then and she had the opportunity to mother her own children!
@@RemiSwanson
Sophie is cast as a villian. But it was not
unusual for royal children to be raised
by (in this case under the supervision of
the Empress Dowager) staff in that era.
Sisi was very young when she married
and she preferred not to spend time at
court, unless necessary.
Her M-i-L (mother in law) probably
thought that she needed to "learn the
ropes" so to speak.
Given the history of Sophie, Franz
Josef and Austria; I am not surpried that
Sophie was a dominating character.
Sisi was heartbroken when her babies were taken from her. The trip to Hungary. Where do I begin. Just eight years after the bloodiest Hungarian revolution and war of independence that was crushed by Russia at the request of Franz Joseph? The event that is still the biggest Hungarian holiday of remembrance to this day? Nobody was welcoming them.
And then she made Hungary a pet project of hers (if that's not too mitigating a phrase). She learned Hungarian and spent years advocating for their independence!
@@RemiSwanson Yes. She definitely felt that her fate and Hungary's fate were aligned. She even wrote poems about it. The people of Vienna actually nicknamed her "the Hungarian women". I think it is the Hungarians' yearning for freedom and her own similar feelings that made the country and its people dear to her. Hungarians still adore Sisi to this day.
@@charliesmith_ So true.
I think we look at this womans life through modern eyes. I don't think that is fair. Fact, she clearly had both mental and health issues. She was a woman in a time that she was owned by her husband. She had no rights no freedom and no choices. She was never allowed to be a mother in any real sense. Confronted with all of that no wonder her life was unhappy.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us! It is true that her circumstances were very much dictated by the codes of conduct of her time.
She didn’t neglect her children. She has an overbearing mother, and a husband who was complicit at best. Her mother in law dominated her and did not allow her access to her children. She was a child when she was married
You are describing the life most princesses of her time had. Her circumstances were not that exceptional, they were actually more the norm for women her rank. The thing with her is that she never settled and always put herself first. Even before her own family and her empire. And that is not necessarily bad. It actually took a lot of gut for a woman to do that at that time. But she was not the tragic figure they have sold us over the years. She lived her life exactly how she wanted.
@nestorperez6867 she lived her life like a perpetual emo kid in the early 2000's. She was not a young woman when she died and never mentally matured. What's forgivable in a 13 year old is absolutely not in a 50 year old.
And having experienced and endlessy resented how horrific she found that, she then forced it on her own daughter. Typical selfish bullheaded Sisi: not the beautiful , kind hearted, concerned for the poor Empress of Hollywood fiction.
@@EmYT5678 maybe she hadn't analyzed it and was just doing what she was taught. it takes decades to become aware and assertive after being brainwashed by the adults and others as a kid. After all, she didn't have the advantage of what we can see by looking at her whole life from the outside.
@@christigoth indeed. I do need to get off my high horse perhaps. I think I am also angry about misrepresentation of history by Hollywood , TV and film industry. However, there is something about her that rials me ; it is a similar way in which Diana Princess of Wales and Meghan Markle rial me. Perhaps I need to do some self reflection to identify why that is. :)
When I was young ,I used to watched a animation "Princess Sisi ",the Prince also named Franz.I didn't know they exist in real life.
This video leaves so many facts out in order to tear apart Sisi's legacy. She was FIFTEEN when Franz Joseph (23) chose her over her sister to marry. Her youngest daughter was the only child she had been allowed to care for and raise after years of mental and emotional torment by her mother-in-law (who was also her aunt). Franz Joseph allowed his wife to be reduced to the secondary woman in her own home! Her focus on her looks was more about the one thing she could control and not about vanity, she was anorexic and starved herself for days at a time. This is nothing but an assassination of her character!
I also loved watching my father work, I miss him so much🕊️
TY to all the learned and passionate commenters. You have given such great arguments for context, rituals, relationships. This was entirely, a sad pleasure.
"What was Sisi really like" they say and show the photo of Romy Schneider. Really?
Finally a REAL portrayal of Sissi - warts and all. Thank you.
DW documentaries never disappoint me! As always, a very engaging production. Thank you
They Keep talking never mentioning how domineering and suffocating was the Empress Dowager and how weak and distant the Emperor was to her. She could only escape, and Kudos for doing it, but she wasn't the only one doing it: also the Spanish Noble woman who married the Emperor of France did just the same...
I think you're talking about Empress Eugénie de Montijo.
@@anaareasfodor yes, she was, thanks
Thank you for sharing and drawing the connection. Perhaps this underscores that for some members of the royal/imperial family life at court, beyond its wealth, was also incredibly stifling.
@@DWHistoryandCulture Many years ago, at the MET, there was an important exhibition centered on Renaissance princesses of Tuscany (something like that) and its aim was to show works of the likes of Botticelli and Ghirlandaio, even Leonardo, but also to understand who were these women. First, they weren't women, they were children around 12-15 of age, Second, they were cattle used as some sort of currency...
I continue...I didn't visit their magnificent exhibition, but I've read their catalog, borrowed by a friend, and I discovered that most of them didn't reach their 20s, because of the plague and especially their difficult pregnancies,. Just a few of them could turn 30 or, SF-level, their 40s, also because they were constantly handled as hotcakes to be sold to the first rich mercenary on the scene. If they were so lucky to survive their husbands, they didn't gain any form of freedom, even after potential widowhood: because their families kept selling them, together with their costly gowns, to the next blazoned criminal during all of their lives. Lucrezia Borgia is the most resounding example. But there was just one anonymous princess, whose portrait didn't survive the 6 centuries' distance to us, who wrote constantly to her husband, claiming that her health didn't let her leave the Spa of Saturnia (not sure about this location, but it is the most probable) and she couldn't be back in Florence to attend her husband needs. Apparently, this lady did indeed reach a ripe old age, just because she kept her distance from Medici's Florence! I always admire all the examples of people who have fought for their, and somebody else, freedom: these princesses were in fact slaves, trafficked for political reasons. Simonetta Vespucci and The Gallerani Girl in Milan ( Maybe in Venice they had it much better...) were the ones who did not have any choice, imprisoned as they were even by their famous painters. But there is always an exception, and this was provided by the Spa Girl ( do you know? Saturnia-Saturn=the devil- rebellion/insubordination comes from the Devil, isn't it? ) After 400 years we have the Austrian and the Spanish high-status slaves who weren't able to emancipate themselves because the system was too granitical for their own capabilities and strength, but they saved themselves and their souls through traveling. Of course, they were unhappy, even desperate, but they saved their dignity and their individuality and at the same time they gave us an example to be inspired by...
Great work DW!! Expert opinions and good amount of re-enactment, it was just perfect. The story of Sissi and her family is always fascinating. Cheers from the Philippines.
This grabbed my attention & kept it. I'm looking forward to more of your work. Ty!
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Wonderfully produced, highly educational. What an incredible documentary...thank you ( DW ) documentary channel for sharing...similar stories were occurred in majority of Monarchy dynasties... of empires historical pages
Beautifully produced and highly educational. Just returned from Vienna and this timely and well researched docudrama is just what I wanted to expand my knowledge.
Many thanks DW for another cracking video 👏👍
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@@DWHistoryandCulture Thanks very much. Absolutely, I’m following you 100% 👍
Thank you so much for my finding history Channel, when I needed to hear it,...sometimes its just all good to learn new things. 😀 thanks for history Channel :))
Nicely done video with excellent narration.
Thank you for this. I could never understand why the Sisi was and is viewed as some kind Saint. Even in documentaries trying super hard to paint her in a light that borders on delusional, she always seemed like an incredibly vain, selfish, and callous woman to me. The way she treated her 3 older children was neglectful and abusive in the case of her older daughter. The way she treated her younger was quite typical of a hard-core narcissist. The poor girl was born to be a doll an an extension of her mother. I can't even imagine how much she (alone) damaged her children.
Thanks for sharing your opinion with us!
Sissi's children were taken away from her right after they were born. Franz Joseph allowed his mother to do this. Had that been done to me, I would never have had another child. That was cruel to all concerned. The whole atmosphere was stifling to someone not raised that way. I agree that Sissi was unable to acclimate herself to that style of living. She was very selfish and and was unable to understand her children. It was sad that she could not enjoy her grandchildren.
@mariahaight9511 you mean the "piglets"?
A tad dramatic?
@tsarina24honolulu87 yes. Sisi certainly did seem more than a tad dramatic.
She was so beautiful, healthy and wealthy woman. She had wonderful children and loving husband. She lived in prosperous country and people loved her. But, nevertheless, she wasn't happy and didn't have a peace of mind! This is so strange and sad! Sisi's life shows that the happiness is not around, but inside the heart or the head of a person. That one can be happy in the cabin, while other will suffer in a palace. Be gracious for what you have! Enjoy what you have! Life is very short!)
It's great to hear your perspective, and we're thankful you shared it with us and the community.
That's one hell of a rosy interpretation 🤣🤣. Please share what your taking so all of us can be so ignorant! 😅
She was anorexic. When you have the most deadly mental illness your health along with your happiness tend to fly out the window.
What a fascinating history and what an excellent documentary!
Thanks a lot for watching and for your positive feedback. We appreciate you taking the time to comment and are glad you like our content!
The usual amazing work! Love of history reignited!
Thanks a lot for watching and for your positive feedback. We appreciate you taking the time to comment and are glad you like our content!
Thank you for putting this documentary together I've been looking for an English version of Empress sissi
I suggest you do more research on Sisi, this documentary vilifies her a lot.
@@RemiSwanson tbh there hasn't been any English version documentaries of Sissi, and it has been like that for years. Despite watching movies of sissi from the Romy Schneider films, but it doesn't tell the whole story..
@johannymilord3371 most others gloss over anything that doesn't fit the staintly tortured soul princess storyline which is quite a lot. Nice to see a bit of truth to balance it out a bit.
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This is the first time I watched a video paint Sisi in this selfish , and narcissistic light. Idk if other pitied her but her eating disorder and abuse was never even mentioned. I remember the emperors mother purposefully took the children away from her from birth. Interesting
It's probably a common practice. I'm Chinese, I know in history it's common in Chinese courts
My grandpa's mom was named Erszebet Szilagy who was the daughter of an Austro-Hungarian duke...I'm Transylvanian 💀👌🏻 nice documentary 💯
i love it when the descendents of the old royals and aristocrats surface now and then! i am one too ( but i won't tell who , lol)
What Duke?
I find it very DISTURBING that these documentaries never acknowledge the abuse these girls/women experienced. Like the fact they were married off before they’d even completed puberty is just pushed aside. They’ll mention her age like it’s no big deal and not even stop to acknowledge the distress girls experience when they get unwanted attention from grown men. I can’t imagine being in a world where you are not only getting unwanted attention but your parents are actually submitting to that man’s demands because of his power. She was just trying to enjoy her childhood and this man decided she was gonna marry him and breed and her parents handed her over with no regard for her physical or mental maturity, health or wellbeing. Teen fertility is low b/c teenagers aren’t supposed to be pregnant. They are at the highest risk of all age groups for mortality and complications for both Mother and child. Millions of girls right now today are cast out for having life destroying fistulas from being pregnant before their 20s. Pressuring a girl to get pregnant by a man she doesn’t even want before she is even mature enough to do so is insane and horrifying. I don’t care how much he supposedly loved her, he was a predator. These royal men knew full well that snatching these young girls up NEVER EVER went well. NEVER. They didn’t care b/c they were creepy freaks and philandering inbreeders. Look at their demented son and the teen girl that he murdered. He probably killed her b/c he’d infected her with whatever filthy life destroying diseases he had.
Well said! Who wouldnt be emotionally and psychically distressed, even chronically traumatised, by such culturally-sanctioned institutional and personal abuse!??
Brilliantly stated!
Franz Josef himself was only 18 !
Sisi wasn't mentally ill, she was mentally sensitive. I've studies her alot and I know there is too much to study about Sisi because she is an enigma. She was shy and misunderstood. But this goes to a long way to her 15th/16th year when she was proposed and she accepted that proposal in haste because of all romantic feelings that could be associated with a young emperor choosing her instead of her sister. She even implied that if he weren't an emperor, they would be more happy. A girl who had a free spirit, who was more into the nature and horseriding. Who thought circus was a way to brush off mundanity is suddenly pushed into the cage of etiquette, discipline and court for what, for the sake of unity of empire that was already on verge of collapse, still held by Sisi's own efforts towards Hungary. She knew nothing of matrimony, she was ignorant to all physical passions of marriage, yet her marriage was consumated probably without her understanding on the third night. Then pressure of Sophie. No doubt that Sophie wanted good out of her sister's daughter but still in the history they both go down as the ladies misunderstood. Franz Joseph minimal to no support, being a mother at very young age, her children taken away. Then death of one child. Then getting blamed for one. Isn't that enough to break a young girl. Still she persisted, in 1860s when FJ cheated on her, she fled away because it was the only thing that could save her from nervous breakdown. After her return she was decisive in her words when she got Rudolf out of that military school, issued Ischl Ultimatum and then she had put all her efforts towards Hungary when Austria lost against the ambitious Prussia, which wanted to create its own German empire. She saw it was right time to get support of Hungarians because it was in first time in FJ's realm she met these magyar men of character in 1857, so her move was thoughful. Still when courtiers rumoured about Marie Valarie's paternity and then FJ said that he wouldn't allow her in politics from now on, that was a breaking point of her. She took up travelling. The rest we all know the course of her life.
She likely had anorexia or bulimia, which are mental health disorders
She wasn't mentally ill. I mean there is no record of pathological issues. She could have suffered from depression and anxiety for all she went through. However, there is no record of mental illness in her.
Low eating but no clear signs of either.
Nah, anorexics purge, I just eat small meals
@@MsJubjubbird Yes I suffered from Anorexia and I became fascinated by Sissi in part because she suffered from it too...I am not a psychiatrist, but as a fellow anorexic she clearly was one : the cult of beauty, the hours of exercise everyday, the low calorie diet, the weird diet, having an exercise room in that time period, the refusal of ageing (no portrait or photo taken after 40 years old) ...Anorexia is place you go when you have so little control on your environment that you focus everything on controlling the one thing you can control : your body. Primarily by the control of food intake, but being malnourish makes you brain works differently and it start to affect many part of your life.
It's important to remember the situation and society at the time to truly understand Empress Elisabeth. She was essentially a wild child who never intended to inherit the crown but fate chose differently. It's not difficult to understand why Sisi fell in love with Hungary and Hungarian society because they were somewhat similar to her Bavarian upbringing compared to the Viennese court which was extremely strict and stiff with rigid etiquette and petty. Although her education was neglected as a child soon became highly educated and a lover of Heine and Kant which only worsen her relationship with the Viennese court because they weren't intellectual. Their only interest was petty gossip, 13 quarterings, and overall the nothingness of their society. And, yes, Sisi became extremely vain thanks to her aunt/mother-in-law who did nothing but criticised her left and right, plus royalty were expected to be an automaton. Even ex-Princess Louise of Saxony talked of this.
How exactly does being criticized make one vain. No. She knew she was beautiful and spent all her energy (at the expense of her children) clinging to it. I do think it's quite sad she couldn't see past that to develop character.
@@amdayfhggie2665 When you are constantly reminded how a princess/Empress should act, look, speak, eat, sit, stand, salute, and greet it's very easy to be vain especially when you and everyone surrounding you have nothing else to do... You're thinking as a bourgeoisie, we're talking about royalty where loving parents were not common among them. And because of Frederik the Great who many believed his greatness was due to the iron rod of his father, many royal children, even the British royal kids, were abused. Also, Marie-Antoinette was used as a perfect example of why royal parents should not be too loving towards their kids. Many people love to romanticised the monarchy as a fairytale but it's military.
Very true
@@lindamanuel9073 Sisi had been told how beautiful she was pretty much her entire life. It definitely wasn’t the Arch Duchess who made her so vain. I think it’s time to set aside the halo affect and realize that Sisi had her faults just like anyone else in the world.
@lindamanuel9073 you aren't making sense. Sisi knew people thought she was beautiful lomg before that. Marie-Antoinette was freaken mother of the century compared to Sisi.
Fascinating!
For the type of show + channel, the amount of ads is very reasonable! The first 1 I noticed was at about 24:00! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Very good. Thank you.
Imagine being a grandmother at 36! This highlights the fact she was way too young to get married and take over empress duty. Her really life was way glamourus than in the movie or in popular knowledge. She is so little for her family and didn’t even do anything as an Empress…i am surprised that the Emperor did call for a divorce after all they weren’t living together for so long.
Thanks for watching. Indeed, her life was filled with extraordinary challenges and responsibilities at a young age. It's a complex historical situation, but decisions like divorce were generally not feasible within the royal court during that era.
Are you kidding! Divorce was unheard of and widely shamed!
People are even today
They two women just a few mins back said that she probably wouldn’t have been a mother if she had lived during this time because she was so into herself. But when you know that your only job is bear children, I think that may lead to some resentment before they are even born. She knows that she could die during childbirth, but as long as their is a living heir..that’s all that matters. She even knows she can be replaced if she passes away with another Empress. I understand I am only at the beginning but that is heavy weight for any woman.
4:07
I wonder why Marie Valerie’s personal journals/diaries are still under lock and key, surely her written words about her mother will open a glimpse of how the empress was in a personal level that isn’t already known now
Valerie's diaries have been published. I believe only in German, though. They are highly interesting.
I guess it's not pleasant
Her experience was similar to Queen Victoria with her youngest child, Princess Beatrice.
probably the family still owns them a nd doesn't want them public.
There is a great biography by Brigitte Hartmann called “The Reluctant Empress - A biography of Empress Elisabeth of Austria “ which gives great insight into Sisi and it includes some excerpts from Marie Valerie’s Diaries where she talks about her mother .It also includes some poetry by Elisabeth which provides some insights too.
It is said Rudolph didn't commit suicide. But, was actually murdered alongside his mistress.
Years ago I readed a book about te Mayerling drama written by a doctor who pretended that de young mistress of Rudolf became pregnant of him en because of een abortion applied in secret the young women died. As a catholiqe prince en married man Rudolf realised himself the massif scandal this dead of an aristocratic girl of 17 would cause en therefore killed himself.
I have always been interested in SISI but everything was in another language I didn't understand. THANK YOU FOR ENGLISH.!!😊
The novel by Allison Pataki, 'SiSi, an Emptess on Her Own' tell a much different story. SiSi was nothing but a broodmare and $ when she married the emperor. Her mother-in-law never let her forget it.
I like the narrator. It is not rushed or sound AI like. Well done on the excellent production.
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I love a good documentary, but there seems to be a quite a biased perspective on Sissi. They talk about how she was "self-centred" "being a mother was never her plan" that "she was never a happy mother". There's little evidence of that. She had her children taken away from her at birth to be raised by her MIL, her MIL also left "anonymous" threatening letters saying that an Emperess that cannot supply a male heir has no value and may be at risk of being discarded.
She had only JUST gotten access to her daughter to that trip in Hungary where she passed. She then fell into a deep depression because of the death. If she did not care for her children or for being a mother I do not believe she would have been as devastated as she was for not just her daughter but later her son's loss.
It was not uncommon for royalty to have their children taken away from them to be raised by others. It's well known that Catherine the Great also had her children taken at birth to be raised by her MIL. A fact that Catherine also deeply disliked. There is no evidence that these women were given joy by having their children taken away to focus on court affairs.
Sissi developed her eating disorder because of her lack of control and deep sadness at the strictness of court. That did not mean she was "self-centred". Leave the poor woman alone, she's already dead.
*That is according to movies. She was a self centered woman that never did nothing for anyone except herself.*
I love to learn about history
I recall the films ...
Near the end, she raised her arm to oscillate her hand in greeting, and revealed a hairy armpit. I was so impressed. That gorgeous white gown and a wisp of dark hair.
She was dysfunctional mother because she was teenage girl who lived in a very free manner before marriage and suddenly had to cope strict mother in law and strict royal etiquette, her children were taken away after their birth by her mother in law and she wasn't allowed to be part of their lives actively. Despite movie romance illusion she didn't love her husband and was trying to avoid pregnancies, that's why she was traveling a lot. She suffered from depression and her obsession with beauty is also a sigh not so good mental health
I think you are right. She had no coping skills (too young), and no support group that would teach her. Many young girls who are not yet confident, focus too much on their appearance, like Sissi did. The Viennese environment also valued attractiveness in women. It became her calling card, though maladjusted
Also with eating disorders is is not only about physical appearance or looks it is much more complex often it is about control . That I can’t control those things about my life but I can control my body and what I do or don’t put into in and how much.
I’ve studied Sissi for a long time and contrary to popular opinion, she was not mentally ill. She was indeed a shy woman who dealt with her overbearing mother in law, the stifling formality of Habsburg court life, had difficulty adapting to the Hofburg and its rigid protocols and strict etiquette. Within a few weeks, Elisabeth started to display health problems. She experienced fits of coughing and became anxious and frightened whenever she had to descend a narrow or steep staircase. Then, she in turn became quite ungrateful, selfish, obsessed, and unloving towards her ever loving husband and her children.
Aka she was mentally ill
thanks from France
She loved cleaness,details of things and art and she will always be a manager example in everything
Has there been any publications of Marie’s diaries? Have historians read them? Super curious about that.
Thank you
28:28
It's interesting how many nobles at that time had mental or emotional issues, even if it was simply borderline autism. Their positions and wealth made it possible for them to live apart from the masses of society. Some were very capable monarchs, their educations and attention to detail benefiting their countries. Others lived only in worlds of complete fantasy. By this time, though, the illusion that the nobility was somehow made from finer clay was continuing to be shattered, and people had legitimate questions as to why subpar people were treated with such deference.
Because of the bloodline, that's why. Autism is neither a mental health or emotional condition.
Thanks for watching. We would like to emphasize at this point that we should approach remote diagnoses with caution, especially when the individual in question lived in a different century and has been deceased for a long time. Speculation is allowed, of course, but please be respectful to those involved.
@@DWHistoryandCulture yes!!!
when you are talking Hapsburgs of the old days, they were sooo inbred as a dynasty, that it could have affected them adversely. Not today, i understand that has changed.
A very interesting and insightful documentary. Well done. Empress Elizabeth’s life will always be the subject of much fascination and this well researched film is a fair attempt to distinguish fact from fiction and myth from reality. Thank you DW.
Thanks a lot for watching and for your positive feedback. We appreciate you taking the time to comment and are glad you like our content!
This is so interesting. I’ve been to Austria when I was a kid and the family where I lived has video cassettes with Sisi movies. Now I saw the Netflix show. I did not expect the reality was so far from the movies.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is astonishing how much the movies deviate from reality, isn't it?
@@DWHistoryandCulture True, but the real historical person is an interesting human, as well, no wonder people became fascinated with her.
bear in mind that this video is only the movie maker's perspective as well. maybe take it all with a grain of salt including this one.
@christigoth this is litterally the only one I've actually address things that brushed aside. Like in glowing worship-fests still having to quickly admit something like her put her daughter in the exact same "traumatizing" situation, it's too much of an elephant to even ignore. This documentary did not change my opinion at all.
Excellent 😊
For the sake of precision Franz Josef's mother Sophia was never Empress. During the 1848 crisis when the childless Emperor Ferdinand had to abdicate, next i line was his brother Franz Karl. He renounced his rights in favour of his own eldest of four sons. That was how Franz Josef became Emperor.
I learned from infancy to love Sissi, from the Romy Shineider movies, after I learned the bitter reality she went thought she was just 16 years old when she got married, this is a heavy duty. I believe there were a conspiracy to destroy the Habsburg, everything about this is so sad even the life of Romy all a sad novel
Wow, I will never envy those royals again. What a weird life. All that wealth but zero freedom
She wasn’t an aloof mother. She sounds like a depressed mother who was afraid to love and lose again.
We're grateful for your contribution to the conversation within our community.
J'adore le couple Ateş&Feraye❤
Merci pour la traduction 😊
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Great video, I thoroughly enjoyed it, however I was quite amused that I have the same dress as the one the art historian (curator?) was wearing haha (the short beige one with the squiggly belt) (it was zara circa 8 years ago 😃)
Looks classic
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Dope docu, reminds me to Diana's story which is totally twisted too
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Take a shot every time they say "Marieee Val-a-rieee".
i’d rather know the good and bad parts of historical figures than think they were some angelic being with no flaws. seems like a lot of people don’t want the perfect image they have of sissi to be ruined.
Thanks for watching. We appreciate you sharing your perspective with us and the community.
They are very kind 😊 even they put all our names there to all of our family and they treated us with warm respect and caring
what are you talking about? who are you?
Sisi was a very complicated woman. If she had been born in the 21st century where women had more choices, I have no doubt that she would have been much happier.
She'd have been able to choose to not have children. I think that would have been her preference and would have been a vast improvement for all.
@@amdayfhggie2665it definitely would have improved her mental health.
THANK YOU ❤
Loved these movies of sissies life romi Schneider was very good
@3:00 It is unfair and misogynistic to say that if a woman doesn't want children then she is selfish. I feel if you have the choice, and decide not to have kids if you don't want them then you are making a choice that isn't selfish. It is more selfish to have the children in this scenario because you are forcing them to experience your unhappiness with their existence.
It's great to hear your perspective, and we're thankful you shared it with us and the community.
Romie was so perfect to play the Empress
I am fascinated by Sisi…..love reading biographies on her. She had mental health issues and was so very vain. I don’t like her, but she continues to fascinate. ❤
"Erzsi" is hungarian. Short for Erzsébet = Elisabeth.
Diese video ist gans gut
What's the music playing at 52:07 ??
Can I just mention that the spelling of the Empress was Elisabeth, not Elizabeth?
Don't ask if you can because you just did
Yes. That is the German version.
This is a far less sympathetic portrait of Empress Elisabeth then I am used to but it certainly to a fair and unbiased look at her life.
The way the emperor treated his son led to his demise.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.
People whom close to her were possessive and wanting the grandchildren to be exactly how she want it. We call it micro management here... on the modern era. It led her to eternal trauma. Her role as princess might made her robotic (as ironic as it sounds); while she wanting to be otherwise all these while. I love her because she tries to challenge and soften that out; eventhough it is to little success
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.
I would suggest that it is not only self preoccupied women who are unhappy as mothers, it is self preoccupied people who are unhappy in their entire lives
Self preoccupation produces misery and this is not gender specific
and this video IMO confirms this
All those poor children look so unhappy and uncomfortable. So sorry for them.
I truly feel people fail to realize sisi never got a chance to live an actual life…😭
….You state that “All of Sisi’s fortune was lost” after the stock market crash (as it was tied up in stocks)-yet, her daughter, granddaughter & others lived VERY well, able to afford the upkeep of their many properties….So, obviously the prior statement was untrue.
Sisi grew up in the beautiful countryside in Bavaria of Germany. The Austria Emperor Franz was supposed to marry Sisi's older sister. Instead Franze fall in love with Sisi when she was accompanied her older sister to meet the Emperor Franz. I think Sisi would be much happier and healthier if she didn't marry emperor Franz. She was never content and happy in her marriage to Franz and life in the palace. Sisi wasn't mentally ill, but was deeply depressed. If you have read her poems, you would know her inner thoughts and understand her better. I felt sad for her life. But she has left us a legacy, to learn, to think, and to enjoy.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.
Strange how despite not liking the court life and being tossed into a restrictive lifestyle, she was very strict and controlling of Marie Valerie's life the way her mother in law did to her when she wanted to be free of all the snooty attitude and lifestyle of court life and do whatever she chooses
My ancestors my Grandfather and Uncles once becoming Americans they had to denounce loyalty to the Emperor of Austro-Hungarian Empire. Found this out recently.
Thank you for sharing. It always fascinating to hear our viewers' family stories !
I imagine his mistress caught the same STD and that is why he killed her before taking his own life too. There was no real cure after all and he knew how much she would suffer. You'd think people would whore around less knowing you could get "the pox" but nope. Many difficulties with getting an heir seemed to be linked to the man already having an STD that caused miscarriages in the wife and early deaths in the infants until in time a few children survived.
Rudolph was quite sanitized also, in an American made movie about him.
This video does seem to overly harp on the horrible lack of mothering, but royals and rich people have a long tradition of not personally mothering their own children. Hands on parenting was shocking when Princess Diana did it.
William and Harry had 5 nannies.
and it all began with him marrying the wrong sister…
Is anyone else here after watching Netflix's 'The Empress'?
Her mother in law was really the one who ruined her marriage from the beginning.
Her husband loved her, what's to ruin?
@@kgan4733 the mother in law took her children and her husband did not support her and this contributed to her mental state.