What Electric Wheel companies can learn from an E-Bike Company // Overdrive Epi 01 | evX
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2021
- In this first installment of Overdrive, we take a look at what Gotway/Begode & Veteran can learn from a silly E-Bike Company Like Onyx Bikes! We take a look at the biggest safety feature needed in all electric unicycles starting in 2021. We discuss accesible smart BMS integration.
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#electricbike #electricunicycle #smartbms
Thanks for watching the video What Gotway/Begode & Veteran can learn from a silly E-Bike Company | evX - Спорт
I think now we are a big enough community to make the Manufactures listen to us. It is up to us now to let them know what we need and want. Very impactful and informative.
Now we need to share this twice a month on all social media for the next year so these companies get the hint
Thank you, Mickey! Great input! Smart BMS is a No.1 priority. There was a few unattended fires, mostly under or direct after charging. We all need some safer storage, charging station, kind a EUC garage. I think a wire blanket by itself will not stop unattended fire at home.
Did you get your Sherman fixed yet?
@@Francisco-ld5kg yeah. that is what we are doing at iCafe Sweden. Fixin Shermans and Begodes. fireproofing, waterproofing, tuning and lifeproofing. Amazing time to live. Eat. Sleep. Euc.
I'm a big fan of Mike Sacristan he is a positive influence for our community. I notice he rides with you. I wish i could join you in Sweden. And your Cafe is awesome.
Yes! We need to be able to see individual cell voltages.
Always looking how to improve our EUCs, sometime the reponse is not "suspension" or "more power" or "more batterie", sometime you do not see the upgrade and it's enormous anyway ! Thanks for your work man ! One more thing, I think all the fires can be explained by a human error, it dos not come from nowhere, we need to be smart (lie the BMS you're talking about ;)) PS: don't try to make "short" video, I tried, it's not possible ahahah And Happy your cividOK, see you !
Thanks!! Lol
This should be standard. Can I add something like this to the wheels I own already?
No you cannot. This is why we need to share this with these companies over and over til they take the hint.
@@evXNYC If an aftermarket battery maker put them into their product then yes you could. You would access it via bluetooth and an app they would supply. Not aware of anyone doing this at present. I may build one myself for a NineBot One E+ since I'm making a new battery anyway.
@@Roskellan yes you are correct. But we want this natively in all EUC. I don’t want to have to pay hundreds or thousands to have a battery remade for me. Plus you might lose a few cells due to the larger bms.
@@evXNYC Yes Batteries are expensive, so replacing them is only a consideration once they have died already. These machines hopefully are going to be around for a while though so the problem is going to rear its head eventually. For most models making your own batteries seems to be feasible and easy for an after-market producer. (Foot note to that, you shouldn't contemplate that unless you really know what you are doing). As your video illustrated there is a lot of energy in these cells, I'm told more energy in a cell than its equivalent weight in TNT. I have been looking at smart BMS, all from China of course, they don't appear to be any bigger than a regular BMS, though form factor could been an issue replacing one with another.
Well then you won’t be riding a Euc anytime soon bud I can check the cells on my Onewheel app and I rarely do big deal boo hoo
Didn't even know about BMS systems. This makes so much sense to implement. Hope we see this in wheels soon. Btw glad to see you're feeling better!
All wheels have a BMS Systems.Its Just that the smart bms have a bluetooth module to transmit the data and regular bms dont.Honestly i dont see the big deal with the smart bms
The big deal is this: having an accessible bms that i can check the health of my battery at any time do the day would be a great safety measure to prevent catastrophe. Imagine your battery was fluctuating and not charging to 100%, you check the bms and see that feel group 1 was 9% out of wack. You’d be able to tell it to balance. Then if it doesn’t, you know the pack is compromised and would unplug the pack right away and contact your dealer. That’s why we want it. Because the other option is, your battery acts weird and then boom, fire!
@@MichaelMutai simple bms's found in euc's today are unacceptable. its fine for an ebike to cutout to save the battery, you will just coast to a stop and have mechanical brakes. on an EUC, cutting off the battery to save it will end up just damaging rider and the device. an EUC needs a smarter BMS to alert the rider of a failing batter pack as early as possible, to avoid getting to a dangerous point where the device malfunctions.
Cheap BMS in cheap battery packs have a higher tendency to just fail. It happened to me. In a scooter bike , the battery went to usable voltage to low voltage. I had to walk it home. It will not charge any more. When I took the pack out it had a smell like burn plastic. The voltage drop above half with just an idle load. A Connected BMS would make it easier to know what happened to it.
LEGEND IS BACK. glad you're safe
Thanks!
One of the best places to store your wheel during the cold winter months is in a fire place with the damper open if you've got one you dont use. That way if God forbid it does catch fire its somewhat contained. For folks who live in extreme cold storing your unit in an unheated garage or outside is not an option. I'd be curious to know what percentage of each type of unit sold has succumbed to fire and under what circumstances?
Another cool video that goes beyond just riding, which is very important. This is how the community will not only grow, it will grow to become even better!!!
A follow on video could address fire prevention tips and equipment for evs. Ride on!
Great insight and advice. I haven’t ridden my V11 this winter. One day it was extremely cold in my living room where I keep it, so I turned it on and heard cracking. I stood in a panic until I realized the crackling was the adhesive on my power pads (that don’t fit well) slowly separating on their own. I don’t know what I would’ve done if it was an actual spark. I have an expired fire extinguisher so the blankets are something I’ll look into. On another note, your suggestion will help prevent us from getting banned. I feel the Unis are the best PEVs, and can’t see myself going back to bulky e-scooters.
I look forward to the day when this is no longer a concern. I mean it in the sense that we, consumers, don't think about it for anything else that has a battery, whether it's a car or a phone or a laptop.
We only think of it in terms of “Crap, I'm out of battery” instead of “Crap, my battery is unhealthy”. That is the extent of it as it should be.
Totally agree! Thanks Micky!🙏
As always interesting, informative, relevant and well produced. Also great music.
Great idea!
Thank you for making this video. I had no idea how important having a smart BMS was. I will be more aware of my batteries moving forward. 😎👍
BMS sounds like a great idea Mickey thank you so much I’m glad you and hopefully your family are all back and doing good thanks again
Great topic Mickey and Im all for it
But Im like you use to be, I don't know to much about it, at least not yet! But this really sounds like a benifit that we all can learn from because in reality this could save us & keep us riding longer & safer, and that is definitely key to a brighter future for all Euc riders. 😜👍👍
Safety and pleasure don’t have to be rivals!! Important video!! 👏👏👏
Great video bruh!!!!!
Glad you enjoyed
Very Agree!!
Uni company should add smart BMS. Nice 👍🏼 video. Safety first
Yes I agree
Well done,Mike! This is a great video, and has to be brought at the attention of the euc companies!!!! MORE SAFETY!
Definitely does! We need to share it with them 2 times a month for the next year to ensure we get the message across!
I hired John Angel to run the electric Space X ebike rover project. He's not silly either.
Nope, but guess who is 😂
John Angel is the silliest man I know. He's on par with the silliest e-bike company... ;)
Great video brotha!! Much needed info!! I have confidence that Inmotion, Kingsong, and Veteran will put in smart BMS systems. Who knows what Begode will do...
We don’t need just smart bms. They all have smart bms already. We need ACCESSIBLE smart bms integrated into the EUC. If we just tell Begode to start using smart bms, they’ll act confused and say, “we already have it...”
Thank you for this video. Good to see that you’ve recovered from
Covid. The topic covered is extremely important. I always charge my lipo or lithium ion batteries for my other electrical gadgets in a fire retardant charging bags and often wonder about my eunis battery health. I think that as we become so much more dependent on rechargeable batteries in our daily lives we need to be well informed about this topic and push for manufacturers of such devices to up their game and further improve safety standard!
Awesome video. Great info. Well stated all around. I personally preferred the vocals as stand alone instead of the music in the background.
The music distracts maybe a bit lower might help. For context I have noise canceling in ear and over ear headphones (tried both) and the music is crisp battling your heartfelt spoken concerns.
Overall I am looking forward to this new series and welcome back. Charge up and god speed
Great video as always. Smart BMS will give more information to riders and a diagnostic tool for dealers, YES! It's a cool feature, the more info you have the better!.
In terms of safety, is a tricky one, we, riders will have more information when charging and general cell health, heavy unbalance cells, etc but no control over it, if the BMS decide to switch off for any of those reasons (avoid overheat, protect the battery from overcharge, etc) when riding, we are back to square one. All good on bikes and other 2-4 wheels, you just coast, you safe but one wheel vehicles is a difficult one. How you program a BMS to avoid certain thresholds allowing a buffer to stop/alert you? Just thinking loudly here.
To avoid fire, we need better quality battery packs.
For rider safety, we need a minimum of redundancy somehow, its the only way forward, in my opinion.
this feature is to allow us to check batteryy health anytime we want. Thats worth the price of admission. I will be pushing for this in addition to great batteryy cells.
Evolve GTX, old now, is an e-skate and the controller let's you check the voltages on all the cells yourself and tells you when you have a problem. Onewheel XR has this, but only Onewheel gets to see the data. They won't let their customers access it!!! I went through this with them while diagnosing my battery's loss of range. Totally blows!
@evx off all the euc youtubers your editing skills are the best. I enjoyed watching this topic and its nice to see someone addreas an out the box topic. Now my question is to everyone how can we push these demands onto the manufacturers? I think its a progressive move forward for the industry as a whole. I never charge my euc at night because i like to be alert as a result of the latest tragedys. I know Gotway will be providing minimum a fuse and control board cover to wheels from this month but i dont think its enough to provide confidence. Look foward to hear people answers on how we can get our demands heard. Keep thinking out the box and creating this series so remain unique to the masses.
Peace Andrew6ft2
Smart BMS, absolutely. Maybe EUC World could accommodate it, if the manufactures started installing it. At the very least after market battery makers could use them as a marketing edge. You would connect to the battery via an app by bluetooth, to the battery itself. Fires appear to me at least, seem to be linked to poor design in the EUC rather than failure of the battery itself. If the BMS is not installed with the battery itself then multiple wires will be required to go to the external BMS, for this reason I would recommend the BMS is part of the principle battery pack.
I fly RC Planes and racing quads. I have multiple Lipo checkers that connect to the balance wires on the battery. Not a smart bms but if the EUC companies can at least put a port on the wheels where we can stick a checker on it to monitor the individual cells that would be a good improvement. Also when ever I saw a lipo that was out of balance was when the battery was in a bad crash (visible damage on the battery) or if one of the cells in the battery got depleted well below what it should have been where the cell just would not take a charge. With lipos they should not go below 3.0v. They should normally be around 3.5v (low battery) to be safe. But that is from my rc hobby. My guess is a lipo is a lipo so same should hold true in the EUC world.
Very similar, but these are using lithium ion, not lithium polymer. Lithium ion are already safer and can be depleted to a lower voltage without issue. Lithium ion don't put out as many amps. Probably why they aren't as volatile?
It will be many years (if ever) before these niche manufacturers match the quality and safety of EMTB systems - component companies like Bosch/Shimano and bike companies like Trek/Specialized/Giant have very sophisticated battery and motor tech. So sophisticated that they require proprietary tools to even read the error codes so you need to take them into a specialized bike store to read the data. This is to reduce liability - by not allowing customers to “self-diagnose”, similar to cars.
Let’s not get our hopes up too much for this semi-legal device. Unless we see a major player coming into the game (like a Segway) these are always going to be low tech and unsafe compared to EMTB.
Smart bms totally agree
I guess the Inmotion V12 may have this Smart BMS, since they talked about that kind of thing before and you have been working with them on the V12.
Very good work in seeking John's expertise, he is very knowledgeable.
Wondering if and how Tesla BMS system works, might be a good topic for Duf to do a video on.
Criticisms of Gotway seem to be fair, valid, impartial. Not hateful or spiteful.
Gotway does not have a fuse, does not have adequate separation or isolation between batteries and circuit board, has terrible major design flaws allowing for water ingress, does not adequately test the product, and many other faults as observed by numerous youtubers.
To blame user error is disingenuous.
Tesla might be a company for EUC manufacturers to learn from.
Great vid, look forward to the next one, thanks.
Having an advocate like e-wheels.com (and the others) on board, would additionally help move the industry
This technology has been used in the hobby industry with lithium polymer batteries for years now. Not that expensive or space consuming either.
My Veteran Sherman caught on fire after 2 miles. I’m currently installing a state of charge meter by ISTD in my replacement wheel. Unfortunately there’s no room for a smart bms. I agree with you 100% on battery safety.
What happened???
I just powered it on to go for a ride and it started going haywire and the controller board started to catch on fire. I dragged it outside just in case the battery goes too but luckily it stop. Good design separating the two. Now I leave the xt60 connectors exposed so I can disconnect the battery.
Ok well that’s not your Sherman catching fire. That’s a bad control board blowing. There’s a very big difference lol
very interest topic we need safe wheel
Wow so is the problem is that our wheels don't have BMS, or is the problem that we don't have access to BMS? Either way happy to see you back
We don’t have access to it
Thanks for the video! I completely agree with having a smart BMS in all PEVs. Very few vehicles have a smart BMS and it is so critical. I know I monitor my LiPo packs I use for my freestyle and race quadcopter packs. My chargers for those packs show me clearly how each cell is doing relative to each other. It isn't a smart BMS but it is way better than what I have for my PEVs. It is crazy that my much more expensive PEVs don't have anything comparable.
Would it be possible for you and Hsiang to get Liam from Inmotion on a video or livestream?
He seems the most responsive of all the wheel manufacturer leadership. Perhaps they could make some changes to the upcoming V12.
I bought a couple of those same welding blankets a few weeks back. I wanted to strengthen my fire suppression capabilities. I have a blanket over my Nikola and MTen3. I also have a couple of those super expensive red fire suppressant balls (bought the real ones). In addition, I also have rated fire extinguishers nearby. I also never charge them without me being present in the room. I put all my LiPos for my quadcopters in a sealed metal container.
I agree with you man, more companies should focus on safety features. Though honestly, I don't expect them from companies like Leaperkim or Begode. I do see maybe Inmotion or Kingsong introducing something like this, which hopefully puts a fire under all the other manufacturers asses.
The magic trick here is in calling out the enthusiast companies knowing that the other ones will dive in. Then eventually the enthusiasts will do it. 4D chess.
Glad your feeling better man! Didn't the Z10 have a pretty sophisticated BMS?
Sadly no. Not like this.
Plus the z10 was a bad wheel made by a company uninterested in making EUC. We need this tech in every EUC from every company.
@@evXNYC I completely agree. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more fires then what has been reported. These 18650's and 21750 cells are way too sensitive and store way too much power not to be monitored at all times.
really just need a smart power supply that talks to the BMS on the PEV. the BMS already has this information, just needs to communicate this to some user interface.
Exactly they make a bms that is smart and can do all the things. John showed it in this video
What kind of wheel was that? The one that caught fire.
Monster v3 with after market battery mod
Are you saying the EUC's don't have BMS? Do they just use balancing cables? I can't really believe that. I think the difference is probably that these 'smart BMS' show more data and have a temperature probe or two.
Of course there can be 1 BMS for two packs, infact that is the norm. These packs are just a group of cells in series to the required voltage, then the other pack / part of the pack is the same, then they are connected in parallel.
All EUC have bms. lol
So... is this something you mentioned to InMotion and they’ve managed to implement for the v12?
Riders pack a Respirator W/ 3M Hydrogen Fluoride P100 Cartridge/Filter 7093C, Organic Vapor and Acid Gas. That burning battery Hydrogen Floride smoke & gas is no joke !
Doesn’t z10 have one? You can see every battery stat in the app on it.
But other hand: it still made in imperfect way and makes no difference.
Better do it in proper way or leave it as it is
Not like the one we need. It’s an inferior inaccessible bms. Also doesn’t matter because we need everyone to integrate an accessible smart bms.
@@evXNYC you can see each cell voltage in DarknessBot if you connect it to z10. So you can measure how balanced it is. But some auto diagnostics and notifications are good to have as well
So seems like DB is ready. It just all other wheels are not
Do you think is good idea 💡 to buy a nikola in 2021 ?
No
Wait til Spring to decide.
2021 is going to see more wheels. InMotion V12 ... at least wait a month to see what thats going to look like!
Bara with Chi battery ran his battery over with a car and it still worked fine lol
Does the Sherman have a smart BMS? I think i've read gotways don't have it. Is this correct?
Not an accessible bms
@@evXNYC that was clear in the video, but is the tech already inside the wheels?
No they don’t have an accessible bms. The tech is not in there. All EUC have a bms that is technically “smart” in regards to basic safety. But none of them give us access to the bms in a way that allows us to see the health of the battery, if it’s balanced or unbalanced, and all the other features we mentioned here.
The modern wheels already have a BMS in the packs. Sherman will tilt permanently with “Lou Batt” code if there’s a battery issue w one of the packs. It won’t let you ride until diagnosed by disconnecting the broken pack or replacing it. There’s alot of into we can benefit from with real time data access to the BMS.
I think this is a good video but also, if people have to ask, I dunno what most riders will do with the added information anyways. BMS are not all equal either.
A smart BMS only adds safety if you are monitoring it or it can see a P group that's going out of sync regularly. So maybe, maybe you catch that early on. That ability to be aware, while not nothing, is the only extra you get. Other than that, "dumb" bms's do all the same things. A smart bms does not give you any extra physical protections.
If you *really* want to eliminate fire risk, advocate for a different cell chemistry -- switch to LTO or LiFePO4 cells. You'll take a hit on range, but you will have almost zero fire risk by comparison:
ua-cam.com/video/Qzt9RZ0FQyM/v-deo.html
There's not enough energy density in those cells. You'd be taking a 50% hit on range sadly. But i'm confident one day we will have a fire-proof battery we can use in all EVs. Thanks for watching & contributing. :)
Why is Onyx a silly bike company?
It’s sort of an inside joke because John and I know they’re the best
Unfortunately this is not something that a consumer would be interested in sell it as you may. For me and a small percentage of people it is different as if I buy a scooter or an EUC I know that I will need to maintain it, BMS comes under maintenance. Interestingly enough some batteries are actually shipped with Bluetooth BMS's but are not activated. End users and enthusiasts are two different beings entirely, as such having an app that looks friendly helps but ultimately QC needs to be correctly done, you dont think about your mobile phone, laptop, electric law mower, Cordless drill, bursting into flames. Until Governments and resellers decided to take control QC and general manufacture will continue to be substandard, this is one of the reasons why E-Scooter, EUC, E-Skateboard etc should be defined as a new type of vehicle, hence exposing them to standards and regulations, and I can assure you these incidents of fires or cutoffs would disappear overnight.
Damn I look sexy.
Bahahaha
Any electric vehicle without proper BMS should be illegal. Only a crazy person would keep that thing in home, apartment etc. PS: Fire blanket won't stop battery fire and won't stop toxic fumes. That smoke is insanely dangerous. That ONYX guy is smart. Just don't buy Unis.
Thankfully these all have a smart bms. They just don’t offer that next level info like onyx bikes offer.
@@evXNYC So why so many brand new UNI fires lately? Something isn't right.
Well there’s only been 3, but in about a weeks time. None of them were related in cause. And one of the main fires was inside a cargo ship coming from China, so hard for anyone to know exactly what happened there. But more importantly the fires mainly stemmed from poor control board design and QC. So if you cause a flame close enough any batteries, there’s a high probability of fire. Doesn’t matter what kind of smart bms is in there.
@@evXNYC In my opinion all electronics should be placed in 100% waterproof compartment. As far as possible from battery packs. PS: Why the hell UNI's aren't fully waterproofed?
Yeah i mean- space is limited in a unicycle as you can imagine. However some companies do place batteries in waterproof compartments. Some companies don’t. It’s really a cost benefit analysis by Chinese companies that don’t need to abide by US standards. But FWIW, I’ve owned and ridden over 25 EUCs and never had a fire.