Christmas Candle Flame in an Electric Field - AQA A Level Physics
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2020
- When the E.H.T. power supply is switched on, the candle flame splits into two portions in opposite directions.
The hot flame of the candle ionises the air molecules in its surrounding into positive and negative ions.
The positive ions are heavier and move much slower. Thus, a larger portion of the flame follows the positive ions, moving towards the negative plate.
The negative charge are electrons and are very much lighter than the positive ions. They move faster towards the positive plate and more easily.
Thus, the portion of the flame that follows the negative ions are much smaller and thinner. This practical really does need a 25kV supply to work well.
Also in a uniform electrical field the electrical field strength (Vm-1) is E∝𝑉/𝑑 so when we move the electrodes closer they put out the flame as E∝1/𝑑 as the field strength is stronger.
At the end we can see the soot on the negative electrode due to the ions from the flame.
It's a great demo for separation of ions and electrons and evidence if charged ions. Also clearly the mass of the positive is more not that there are more, slip of the tongue!
The demo is dangerous so you must take care and no pupils close to it. My EHT is current limited for safer use in schools.
Finally the video has one error when I talked about the ions there are clearly the same POS and negative ones. The masses are the differences.
Lastly it's quite hard to get the flame to go out, I was lucky...so don't be disappointed if you fail! - Наука та технологія
12 years after I left school, I'm watching UA-cam, then I'm like... I recognise that voice! It's our physics teacher Daniel Powell! Mr Powell!
Hope you're doing very well!?
Yes I am thanks, hope you are doing well too. What are you doing!
@@animatedsci OMG Is that you? I was on 4th grade when i had you. I remember that day that you fell by accident. cheers mr powell!
Wholesome
Awesome
My god the fact you still recognize his voice is nice
Atom 1: I've lost an electron
Atom 2: Are you sure?
Atom 1: Yes, I'm positive
Nope, I'm not gonna laugh. Who am I kidding, I bout rolled over laughing at that.
this is why we have comment sections
Ba Da Boom!
electrons flow are directed from negative to positive side.
- What will an electron say if a proton and a neutron come to electron's home?
-Make yourself atom.
This is proof that a good teacher that truly cares about his or her job and teaching students will always be remembered. Good for you animated science for not only teaching but making it fun enough that people years later remember you. I have 3 teachers from when i was in school i still remember and miss being in their class. I came across one of them a couple years ago and even 20 years later she remembered my full name. That made my jaw go to the floor. I gave her a big hug and thanked her for everything she taught me.
you are a grateful student
Lovely 😀
Do women teach stem on YT?
Physics Girl?
I'm impressed not only by this demonstration, but the comment section as well. You must have been an outstanding teacher for your students to still be tuning in to science channels by choice, out of countless options available on YT, and recognize your VOICE a decade later! WELL DONE, SIR! That's fantastic, Mr Powell 😎
Many thanks. I aim to serve and really just share. I use UA-cam as a way of making sure that pupils who are sick or want to revise can have a 2nd look. Also some schools don't have any specialist teachers so hopefully it evens out the playing field.
You should add that the left plate gets a black spot on its surface.
That is where the positive ions go - the carbon+ ions.
And for the record, there is always an equal amount of negative and positive produced.
The flame is asymmetrical because the positive ions are bigger than the electrons.
Thanks! I was wondering about the statement "there are more positive ions produced" 😊
The ions are causing movement of the air and the burnt candle fumes. The products of combustion are causing the stain on the left plate. Do this in a vacuum, obviously without a candle, and no stain would appear on the left plate.
Wonderful!
So would this have anything to do with a catalytic converter?
I doubt there would be free carbon cations in gas phase. Carbon cations are a very high energy species that you would only observe in extreme temperatures (much higher than candle).
@@thecsslife candle flame is supposed to have hot spots with the envelope just outside the visible flame reaching 1300 or 1400 C. I don't know how plentiful the ions are but supposedly some are produced. When I first read the OP, I thought he meant the ions were being created from the carbon in the metal alloy plates but after I read yours I realized they are being generated by the flame and then moved by the electric field.
It would be nice to do that with the candle isolated inside a glass to make sure that the ionized air around doesn't cause enough wind to participate to blowing the flame, because clearly at 25kV you usually can feel the wind.
very good point
"usually can feel the wind"? Really?
What wind
@@owenmartin3307 when the oxygen/nitrogen ions move, they're just moving air molecules, and their displacement is wind. That's the principle used in lifters/ionocrafts (look for "high voltage lifters" or you'd get tons of irrelevant suggestions).
@@nip360 yep, I first noticed this when playing with corona wires salvaged from an old photocopier. Even at only 5kV you approach your hand and can feel some air turbulences. The corona devices are made with a perfectly centered wire so the wind in theory is in all directions but still some might be circling and you can feel it. At higher voltages (but before breakdown) it's more noticeable. And if you do this between a metallic plate and your hand with a very low current (otherwise it hurts), when air starts to ionise, you feel some cold air moving on your hand.
You Sir are the one of teachers we remember later in life the teachers that make a difference. Everyone had a teacher like you that makes the class enjoyable and memorable. Thanks for being the teacher we wish we had in every class. You might not realise it but you literally change lives. I really enjoyed this video. Cheers.
Many thanks that is such a nice comment. I also put all my resources for lessons online as well so anyone can use free of charge. I will never charge for anything I have made. Animatedscience.co.uk
Never could think of a cool experiment like this in my entire childhood even though I was fascinated by flames
Great demonstration. I would be interested to see this with AC and what the flame does as the voltage increases, as well as with a larger flame, such as from a bunsen burner where you "cut" the tall flame in half (hope that makes sense)
I think I understand your premise, I would like to see that as well. Thank you
Sub’d & Bell’d
Modulating the frequency of the AC power might produce an interesting effect as well.
i guess the flame won't split in half. the electron -carbon cation recombination in the flame plasma is where the visible flame light com from, if one pull cation and electrons away from each other, we can't see flame and the chain reaction of burning will end.
Socket 60 Hz AC probably wouldn't do anything, though with a high enough voltage you might see a breakdown facilitated by the presence of the flame. If you could modulate the frequency to match the oscillation of the flame (looks like 5-10 Hz for this flame) you might see a resonance. For maximum effect, the E-field should be oriented vertically.
1:49 "and as I increase, the flame gets shorter and fatter"
So THAT'S what's been happening to me!? It all makes sense now.
Please decrease.
That's TOOOO much fun for a Tuesday!! That was so cool -Thanks!
Whoa amazing, i never stop to think about the eletric interaction on a flame, in this case. Thanks for the video!
I hooked my oxy/acetylene jewelers torch to the positive side of my HV power supply once (yes, I took all necessary precautions and isolated everything with ground connections and flashback arrestors on the gas lines at either end of the hose), after I coincidentally noticed my raw acetylene flames were attracted and repulsed by the anode/cathode of my HV system, I turned the oxygen off so it was just raw acetylene burning and then held the cathode in front of the flame. If you ever get the opportunity to try it it's mesmerizing, I was fascinated as I watched a bug fluffy cloud of soot growing into dendrites off the cathode, rather quickly I might add. I wish I had recorded a video of it, maybe I'll have to haul my torch set out of the garage and dust off the HV supply one of these days and record a quick video of it happening. I could very well be wrong but I think some of the acetylene gets transformed into carbon nanotubes, I remember hearing about methods of growing carbon nanotubes that involved an acetylene gas filled reaction chamber that is burned under high voltage but I could be remembering a dream, don't quote me on that. Regardless, it's a fascinating experiment to see a flames properties when exposed to high voltage, especially when you can grow big fluffy-cloud dendrites of complex carbon structures with nothing but a bit of burning acetylene and a cheap ebay 20,000 volt transformer lol.
I would love to see a video of that.
Please do!
Make a video!!
The world needs that video.
Due to popular demand I'll record a video in a few weeks when I get back home from work, I'm out of town ATM. I've wanted to get it on video for a while anyways so this is a good excuse to do it lol.
Very nice. Signal Path did a somewhat similar experiment a few years back, but he was measuring the current flow with and without flame. He was showing off some very low level measurement capabilities of some Keithley test equipment. Just in case some folks here are interested in that experiment.
very interesting i love u
_"In a clean yellow flame the soot particles are quickly burned when they reach the higher oxygen regions away from the center of the flame."_
That is interesting. I've been watching videos about waste oil heaters and rocket stoves. Both feed oxygen into the flame for a more complete burn.
EDIT: And a tall combustion chamber.
"The grown up physics stuff..." That will stay with me forever...
Nice video
I often say that to make the pupils feel more special about their studies!
Your former student Neville wood shared this on iFunny and now you have a new subscriber.
Very cool. Absolutely common sense but I never would have thought of it on my own. Thanks for posting.
Did you just say you have no common sense? 😁
@@daviddonaghy4723 - Common sense can be rather uncommon.
I'm not so arrogant that I can't admit when I don't know something.
Really reminds me of the fantastic work that Ionel Dinu is doing with his work with electrigen. I think we're moving towards a renaissance of seeing physics actually mature now.
Best animation I’ve ever seen! Looks so lifelike!
Thank You sir for that amazing demonstration of physics. Education can be fun and entertaining. Have A Great Day! 👍🏼
Experimento maravilhoso!
I never thought of a flame beeing "charged" in that sense of containing positive and negative ion's. Interesting that you can prove it using this setup.
potential new tool for fireman to fight fires!!
Ten years later we will return to this
Mr. Daniel Powell I remember your class! This teacher gave me the learning I needed!!!
Super thanks
Me: extinguish a flame by blowing on it
A professor: push metal plates with 24kV close to flame
Ah, the joy of seeing what goes on in a capacitor!
THIS IS AMAZING! I've never seen ions moving due to electric fields in real life before.
Excellent demonstration! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Belo experimento !! ! !!
Obrigado por postar.
Me:
UA-cam: Wanna see a candle?
Me: Sure, go ahead.
I no a little about elec but never thought about this happening
Good show old fellow did subscribe look forward to being dazzled in the future
Very cool video. I really enjoyed it, keep them up!
This proves that Fire type should be weak to Electric type in Pokemon.
The ionized plasma in a the pilot light of a heating system ignition system is used as a safety feature in gas fired appliances. When the tip of the pilot light flame enveleops the flame detector it creates a current path through the plasma that enables the gas valve to open.
@Bruce_Honnigford nope, thats a thermocouple. 2 dissimilar metals in electrical contact in a temperature gradient causes electrical current flow, which is enough to energize a tiny solenoid coil that opens the safety cutoff valve.
@@baronvonfritz in furnaces there's always a flame detector that works as described by measuring an electrical current when flame is present.
@@baronvonfritz This is a roughly 90VAC system that uses flame rectification to pass a DC millivolt signal back to the control board when flame is present. Different than a thermocouple. At least if we're talking about the flame sensor on a typical furnace.
@@baronvonfritz A gas burner 'safety valve' works the other way around. i.e. A thermopile (battery of thermocouples), located in a burner flame, generates sufficient voltage and current flow through a solenoid to hold a 'normally closed' (fail safe) valve mechanism open, allowing gas flow to a burner.
Just wanted to let you know I undumbed myself, and say you're right. I had to go figure out who was right, and got to learn about a new (to me) sensor I had always just assumed was a thermocouple.
I love the early point made
"for the grown-up physics stuff",...
And the candle is cemented to a seemingly brittle wooden structure with blue tac.
Brings a smile to the face.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video
I understood the setup immediately - way to think outside the box! I've never considered candles in electric fields - but it's plasma, of course!!
Can anybody suggest where I might buy the equipment for this in the Toronto, Canada area?
I have a PhD in Electrochemistry and didn't know this awesome bit of science! Thanks so much for sharing!
what did you bother to learn there in all that time and money wasted in college then?
I wish my school did stuff like this more often. This looks like fun!
Why it was recommended I didn't know but it was soooo cooooool 👍🏼
This recommendation worth a like and share 👌🏽
Fantastic
If you REALLY want to see something amazing get a high voltage power supply and instead of producing arcs in air, do it in helium. A 10kV power supply that produces 1 inch arcs in air will suddenly produce MASSIVELY WIDE 1 foot long arcs in helium. Just helium at atmospheric pressure, we're not even talking about low pressures.
Dear sir excellent news.
And what happend if its in vacuum.
@@alexlo7708 No arc.
Helium is non electron attaching. That's why you can get long arcs / sparks.
@@crusinscamp I don't think so. e help in bridging the electric arc. So noble gas make long arc because they don't create oxide on electrode surface which it accumulate resistance to current passing.
The positive ions would tend to be of smaller sizes than the negative ones. This would tend to give them move ability to move through the air. Also, H+ would be very light and tiny, so those would move fast and far. If you used AC, you could likely setup so interesting resonances with the flame.
Except that in reality, free electrons barely attach to air molecules to give negative ions and the few created are short lived, hence free electrons are the main electric (electronic in this case) current flowing. In plasma physics, the electronic current is always greater than the ionic one and free electrons make the streamers for example. Although here, we don't have a plasma admittedly. In any case, free electrons are much more mobile than positive ions and their mean free path is much longer. Also, there is no hydrogen in the air (infinitesimal traces).
what? protons are way heavier than electrons
@@fluxcapacitor the candle has lots of hydrogen in it, its a hydrocarbon.
@@Metal_Master_YT Exact, it's a source.
The burn is on the plate that would receive the positive charges. But, I would speculate that free electrons colliding with the positively charged plate could be causing no damage. It puzzles me as to what the ions are. I wonder how we could test such a question.
Finally a safe way to put out candles. Thanks!
The candle went out. Subscribed!!
"as I increase it gets shorter and fatter"
Sounds like McDonald's talking to the American public.
In blue flames like a Bunsen burner the light comes from ions recombining, but in yellow flames like candles, most of the light comes from incandescing soot particles. In a clean yellow flame the soot particles are quickly burned when they reach the higher oxygen regions away from the center of the flame.
Overall the flame is expected to have a neutral charge, with equal numbers of positive and negative charges. You can see from the spot of soot on the negative plate on the left that the soot has been attracted to the negative plate. Therefore the soot particles are positively charged. A reasonable conjecture is that the negative charges are electrons, which would be attracted to the positive plate on the right, and the atomic ions, like the soot particles, are positively charged.
It certainly would be a good idea to try the experiment with a soot free flame. Bunsen burners have metal parts which would be prone to sparking in the strong electric field. candles easily flicker, and are likely to extinguish when they are flickering. It would be easier to claim that a flame was extinguished by the separation of charges if the flame was not flickering.
The important variable is the electric field gradient, which depends on the voltage difference between the plates of course, but also is greater when the plates are closer together. At the end of the video, when the plates were brought together, the gradient was raised.
A Van de Graaff generator could easily generate the 25 kilovolts, but this experiment needs more current. If you had access to only a 5 kilovolt power supply, you might be able to run the experiment with a smaller plate separation and a very small ceramic burner. As far as I know, sufficiently small burners are not easily available.
Awesome comment.
I like your funny words magic man
Thank you for making this a short 3 minute video, it made me want to watch, other people make an hour and half video saying the exact same thing you just said, it's exhausting.
Yes, agreed I try and keep them short, as they are all demos from in class. Children of don't have a great attention span.
2:10 that flicker! 😯This demonstration is fascinating and portrayed a very unexpected phenomenon!
It was pretty cool. Thanks
наглядный пример взаимодействия магнитного поля с плазмой а так же ответ как солнечная энергия попадает к нам на землю.
Большое спасибо, очень интересно!
What a fun thing! I would never suspect. In 1968 or ‘69 I followed an electronic hobby magazine project for science fair that is slightly similar. (No original thought on my part.) It used the flame envelope to push air AKA a speaker. I got a 400V DC power supply from my pastor (who was also an electrical engineer/HAM operator) and modulated it with a signal from a cassette player. The weakest part of the setup was the electrodes which needed to be placed inside the flame. I used nails, but they deteriorated pretty quickly. Trumpet sounds were so crystal clear (BS&T of course). It was good enough to win first place!
This explains Franz Bardon's explanation in his IIH (Initiation into Hermetics) regarding the hermetic fire element (tejas) incredibly well.
So the Tim the Tool Man power supply. Nice. Hopefully the usual hospital visit can be avoided. ;)
Norm had Cheers, Tim had the Hospital.
A very interesting demonstration, thanks. Now in my education in electronics, etc. the negative electropotential is the actual source of electrons in a circuit. So basically in the flame, positive ions (plasma) was being drawn largely towards the negative electrode. Yes?
sir this is truly fascinating
Absolutely fascinating!
Could you do this again with both a high speed camera and a lower white balance?
I wonder what would happen if you did this same experiment while also having a sonic resonator vibrating the dielectric of the capacitor at various frequencies.
1.21 GW flux capacitor?
@@Toryboy1807 What I am basically saying is have the air in between the capacitor plates resonate at various sound frequencies and see how it effects the results. It has already been shown that sound resonance affects the flames. I would like to know what the compound effects are under various frequency and em field strength conditions are.
@@wesbaumguardner8829 I thought you were trying to go back to 1955 in a DeLorean. Thanks for clarifying.
@@Toryboy1807 lol!
What about a light source through it into some optics prism.
Fascinating. Thank you.
This was very interesting -- thank you for posting this information 👍🏼.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hello, Can you try to put more candels in line , maybe you will see a pattern !
So does the electric field cause a disturbance or force upon the air medium? Or does the electric field have a direct effect on the flame regardless of medium composition?
imagine getting this recommended to you on a Tuesday and thinking this guy is Nostradamus
Thank you. Very interesting demonstration. Presents several story plots for short stories.
DJP I LOVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!
lmao
When I learned that your basic furnace uses the flame to complete the circuit and activate the blower, I was very surprised. Never knew before that a flame carried enough charge to do that…
It doesn't. It carries enough current to amplify with a transistor.
Your videos remind me of elementary school. I love watching these. Also, reminds me of Science Fair experiences.
when i was little, like 6th grade, of course our school had science fairs and wanted the students to participate.
I wasnt very smart but was happily interested in science and effects of physics on mass / objects of different masses and material makeup. my project was on effects of gravity on objects, when underwater. had seen a lot of movies at that time during the 80's , and was fascinated with metals and weightlessness.
I attached different paperclips , 2 sizes the big ones and small ones, to a magnet at the top of a fish tank full of water, and tested how many the magnet could hold while dangling underwater, and then tested the same outcome outside of water to see the difference. i dunno... something about it made sense to me as a kid lol ....
It wasnt a great project... however presented well. but i feel like i never grasped the concept that was teasing my brain into the desire to create the test in the first place....
😂 ... laughing now.
Visual of electrons going from positive to negative, cool!
Interesting demonstration.
The flame is electrically isolated from ground. Most candle wicks contain a fine metal wire to keep the wick standing straight in the flame. It would be interesting to ground this wire at the base of the candle to ground the flame, thereby providing a source of electrons to the flame of the candle. The flame may develop an electrical bias due to the difference of ion mobility in the electric field.
I'd like to understand why intensifying the electric field puts the flame out.
Try running a small stream of water in a unipolar electric field (you can use a charged piece of plastic ). I had a physics teacher do that once to surprise the class.
Grounding the candle would not provide a flow of electrons to the candle.
Pressure mediation within the electrical field is what puts the candle out.
Hey, that's a really interesting phenomenon. Electric throttling of flame. I wonder if it could be useful for aerospace engines?
You are right. Productivity of classicengines are less than %60. We need develop superconductuvity than ve can create a coil consist of plasma using a magnetic field. This coil can push the superconductors and this motor can power an aircraft
Fantastic! Please make again about this experiments! Thank you ^^
Nice explaination ...it seems u are an amazing teacher... 🙏
Very interesting!
My question is... does this "ion wind" have any effect on the burn rate of the candle?
a side-by-side time lapse comparison would make for an interesting pt2, no?
Hmm maybe, but what is happening is the energy from the flame is being joined with the energy in the circuit, you can see this cause the candles flame is moving towards the negative which is how the energy is also flowing. I assume it will have a effect on the rate of which the candle burns due to a few factors.
@@DJxSGGxNeo that's what I said!, lol
but seriously. if you have ion flow in 2 directions, does it more or less cancel out/balance ion flow (leaving only ion size as significant factor) or does this "joining" you speak of act like a bellows and increase burn/+O2?
also... if there is dual ion flow- pos ion flow to positive and neg to negative, then why do we see the soot accumulate seemingly on only one side? does the char get charged? (incidental pun!) even crediting ion size, there would still be some soot on the other terminal, no?
since this is basically a capacitor do you have to discharge the plates after demonstration before they are safe to touch? this is so cool thank you for this.
Yes, but the charge leaks away pretty fast too
You can calculate the approximate capacitance fairly easily. The plates seem to be about 100 mm in diameter, and are about 100 mm apart (my guesses). C = epsilon_0 * Area / distance_between_plates The permeability of air is about the same as for vacuum, so epsilon_0 is about 8.854e-12 Farads/meter so.... 8.854 Farads/meter * pi * (diameter/2)^2 / 0.1 meter = 0.695 picofarads. You can now compute using the capacitor discharge equation V(t) = 25 kV * e (-t/RC). R is given in air about 10e9 ohm-meters. (but varies with temp, humidity, etc) with .1 meters, we have R= about 10e8. So, after 1 second after removing the 25 kV source (that is, t=1), we compute V(t) to be .... a very tiny number ( so small, my calculator returns 0.0). Now, Capacitance = Charge / Voltage; in this case, then, Q (amount of charge) = 0.695 picofarads * 25 kV = 17.4 nanoCouloumbs. The Energy stored in this capacitor = 1/2 * C * V^2 ; in this case 217e-6 Joules. Now, if you get the plates 'too close', you can ionize the air itself, and there will be a nice spark between the plates. You need about 3 kV per mm to do that; so in this case, being 100 mm apart, you would need about 300 kV to get a spark between the plates. Still: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME unless you understand this sort of thing COLD. Always be safe, wear insulating gloves, rubber-soled shoes, eye goggles, protect all skin --- and use proven instruments (not your fingers!) to verify your calculations on the real apparatus.
I'm no scientist, but this was interesting!
The only time I remember ever hearing the word capacitor was in Back to the Future. Thanks again, from a 74 year old great grandmother. Peace and blessings to all!
@@annarodriguez9868 lol ah yes the flux capacitor what a good movie that was
@@cheponis Everything good, but the calculation of the extimated resistance of the air between the plates. You forgot the area of the plates, R=rho*L/A which would give R of about 3e9 ohm, so the tau of the decay is actually RC ~ 2e-2 s, which is still extremely low.
Wow! Splendid.
Awesome video
I know that in a closed circuit electrons move from the negative side to the positive side.
So what is it that moves from 5he positive side to the negative?
I heard that they are "Ions". I am guessing Ions are charged particles.
If yes, what kind of particles are they? Abd where do they come from?
Ions are charged atoms (positiv or negative). The heat of the flame strips electrons off of the atoms
I wonder if this effect can actually be used to extinguish actual fires. Might take dangerously strong electric fields to work against something greater than a mere candlelight, but maybe not?
Rather yes, than not.
The problem is (based on my understanding) it wouldn't really stop the combustion, it would just pull away the "flame". So it would be ineffective against anything that burns without a flame e.g. coal.
Also, it only puts out the candle is because the combustible matter is concentrated in a small area (the wick). If you had more fuel to the left and the right you might in fact increase the spread of the fire.
As an energy worker, this is so awesome, I am able to not get burned using some kind of electric technique in my body. Now I understand more of how I am doing this.
I can put my whole body in fire and it does nothing to me. I demonstrated this to a group of people that kept trying to stop me because they thought I was mad. I finally convinced them to stop grabbing me to stop me, and to show them. I somehow allow the fire to pass right through me.
Mindblowing. I learned so much from this video. I'm now applying for jobs in the physics industry. Just having 'Watches UA-cam videos' on my resume should get me a job at any company of my choosing.
I'm wondering if an increase in burning efficiency can be obtained by means of an electric field like the one shown here
Goos idea
a candle seems to consume all of the fuel and oxygen?
If whatever is happening to cause the flame to go out like that, if anything I would think it would probably be the opposite, maybe? Because the flame needs 3 things to survive, fuel, heat and oxygen and if any it loses any one of those it will die so the electric field has to be disrupting one or more of those elements, so maybe its displacing the oxygen somehow? Im not sure, but whatever its doing its starving the flame of something which means its efficiency would have to decrease?
Im just guessing.
Good idea, I'm wondering if the net energy input by comparison would be positive. You should PhD and stuff...
If it's the transfer of ions that's making the flame move, I guess the burn efficiency would depend on the fuel source.
I wonder if an electric field could be used to stabilize the burn. We could test by introducing a steady cross wind
My immediate question is how does the electric field influence the air currents (independently from the candle)? I would be really interested to see if the strong electric field would also blow a light piece of crate paper or a feather or something. Then the effect on the flame due to the ions could be disentangled from the effect due to the air currents. Thanks.
It would, you could even feel a slight breeze on your hand. If the electric field is strong enough it ionises the gas particles and they physically move between the plates.
To answer your question ask yourself exactly what is a flame. It is largely hot gas. The effect seen here is just the effect the ions have on air which the flame is mostly made of.
@@user-cy2iq1gl1t Yeah, it seems like it's basically just air. Years ago I read that flame was a plasma, but on thinking about it, that doesn't make much sense!
Um... Silly question but does that mean with a few million volts you could put out a small bush fire? Or would it just start more fires?
It needs to be ionised and more like a plasma
Ahhh... very satisfying... Thank you !
This 2 min video is more informative than my 40-50 pages textbook lesson
And what could happen if you induce a hign frequency oscillation or pulsation. Is there a resonnace frequency that could enhance the rate of combustion?
the high frquency high voltage oscillations willl suck in the whole lab and the contents in the room into the 2 metal polarities to another portal possibly time travel!
@@fidelcatsro6948 time travel is only possible if the candle is tourning around the earth at the speed of light, in a sphere, burning the omicron variant!!!
@@louisleblanc2972 i see..thank you
Neat! Everyday is a good day for physics! I infer this is a DC power supply. What about an AC power supply? What happens as the power fully frequency increases? Different waveforms?
first to get knocked out is the cam being used to record the video, we wont have a video to see this if it was in AC!!
That’s so wicked. I understand why it works but intuition says it wouldn’t, always cool to see.
Excellent ion wind visualisation
Thanks
Is there a build up of soot on the negative plate because the soot particles are positively charged?
not sure but most likely because he put the candle flame on it for some reason, probably if what you think is true the soot would have spread all over the plate, and likely not visible
EDIT:
done the experiment, you're right, it blackens on a spot of the negative plate like in the video, it's not spread
In my mind, I can imagine that only the electrons flying through the flame are picking up soot and embedding it in the negative plate, and that's why you only see the black spot where the flame generally is.
@@LuisMartinez-zd2vl The electrons are negative, so attracted to and therefore traveling to the positive plate. The soot is either positive itself (most likely) or is being dragged along by the flow of positive ions.
@@davekni The flame touches it once in this video in one frame, 2:32, comma/period are frame-by-frame after pause
@@davekni Maybe formed by charged ions carbons?
When did electricity at electrical Fields move from positive to negative when they've always move from negative to positive before?
Was going to ask the same question.
It's because there are positively and negatively charged ions, while in a solid only electrons, which are negatively charged, can move
@@bene5431And that is the reason they move from negative to positive.
@@IAMNOSLEEP Yes, positive particles move from + to - and negative charges from - to+
That was beautiful thank you
Cool experiment
Humidity in the air (H2O) goes doink, aligning itself with the electric field surely since it is a polar (non-symmetrical) molecule, slightly negative on the oxygen side (pointing toward the positive plate) slightly positive between the hydrogens pointing toward the negative plate. CO2 is not polar, it's straight across. In water, it only takes 2.3 volts per molecule (if I remember right) to line 'em up and strip them apart during electrolysis to make hydrogen and oxygen gases when they recombine in like pairs. (Lots of current though, unless pulses/frequencies might help).
Just have to wonder if they ever separate in a strong electric field in air, first time it ever crossed my mind. If so, would we be losing some hydrogen floating upward with our 100 lightning strikes on earth per second?
To break apart a water molecule using only an electric field, you need the potential difference across the molecule to be at about the same order of magnitude as the internal field. This is certainly possible to achieve (e.g. using a laser) but not at "macro" scale.
dang it
Yes. Lightning definitely creates hydrogen, but i think most of it recombines with the oxygen that is produced because of the heat generated by the bolt. I would be interested to know the quantities involved.
So in other words making hydrogen to power cars isn't a very energy efficient way of powering cars and would lead to releasing more carbon than if we just burn gasoline in today's highly efficient engine's?
@@dukecraig2402 It actually comes pretty close in round trip energy efficiency, but you are correct that it is less efficient in pure energy than the most efficient gasoline... When you compare them in terms of CO2e per kwh of energy spent doing work though even with just a large percentage of lower emission renewable energy driving the mix hydrogen smashes gasoline and that's without considering ability to trade energy on the grid/market utilizing negative energy from excess generation and helping to stabilize the grid with much, much more capability than all forms of battery storage...... There seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation around this side of it... Only semi good piece I have seen that covers it in some depth is over on the channel Engineering With Rosie "Batteries in the Electricity Grid | Engineering with Rosie Live Episode 6" one look at the graph of where hydrogen sits with pumped hydro will give you an idea of its role to play in future energy ;) it blows many people's minds.
Could this be implemented on a scope large enough to stop a raging house fire? I’m sure the answer isn’t feasible but my imagination runs with it.
Nice idea but you'd need to ensure there's nobody inside the house when you switch it on!
Welcome to another episode of "i don't get anything but it's cool"
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Good content sir...Love from Nepal 🇳🇵
I need help
why are the positive ions moving more to the negative pole than the negative ions?
some say it has a bigger size and mass
some say negative ions are just elections and weigh nothing compared to positive ion
but this doesn't answer my question, why is the positive ion more reactive to the negative pole?
I think my description is correct, I took out one line to be really clear. I am just talking about speed being slower and mass larger for positive ions. The effect of the field must be more on a lighter electron.
@@animatedsci Thanks alot, sorry for not reading the description :P
But I am just curious, why is positive ion heavier? If it's referring to density the shell of positive ion should be one shell lesser than atom
Thus following the d = mass/volume formula, its density is increased as the ion volume (shell layer) decreases
Is my understanding close to the real thing?
The positive ion will be carbon, H2O any products really of the burning. Heavy atoms really who have lost an electron. Hence massive difference.
@@animatedsci sorry maybe it's because of typo
Do you mean the positive ions is C and H2O, which lost an electron so it's heavier than the negative ions (electron)?
@@electronx5594 99% of the mass of the atom is in the nucleus. That means the following:
1) assume an extreme case - ALL the electrons of whatever atoms are in the air between the electrode plates get stripped off and collected on the positive electrode, and ALL the positive ions - e.g. the nuclei in this extreme case - get collected on the negative electrode
2) keeping in mind that 99% of the mass of any atom is in the nucleus.....
3) which plate collects the largest, and slower-to-accelerate, particles?
THE NEGATIVE ELECTRODE PLATE.
- 99% of the mass of the atoms is in the positively-charged nucleus
- which is collected on the negative electrode
Since F = ma, you can assume that, with the increase in 'm', the 'a' acceleration is lower for the same amount of attractive force created by the electric field between the plates.
.
Does this explains that the direction of the flow of current is actually from positive to negative?
But that's not true. That's conventional electron theory. Electrons flow toward the positive......Am I wrong??
Think theres still some doubt about that,maybe just human need to explain/visualize theories?
I believe electron flow is - to +. With a large enough voltage, electrons will flow through the air (e.g. lightning). As the electrons leave an atom in an air molecule, an ion is formed. So the ion flow is from + to - because it is in the opposite direction of electron travel. A search on "hole current flow" should provide info on the idea of positive current flow.
@@claesmansson9070 There is no doubt at all. Electrons are the real charge carrier in any bulk conductor. It is the electrons that flow, and they flow toward positive.
What you heard was a reference to what's either called conventional current, or sometimes 'physics current', called 'conventional' because at the time that electrical theory was first being characterized, we had no idea that the electron itself existed. We only knew that _something_ with many characteristics of a fluid was discovered which could flow through certain solids(conductors), and it seemed sensible to assume that if it(electricity) were fluid like it's probably 'pumped' through the solid by positive pressure rather than being 'drawn' through it by negative pressure.
It's sometimes referred as physics current simply because positive charges, even theoretical ones, are a bit easier to deal with than negative ones. Take the right hand rule for instances. If youre conceptualizing a flow of positive charges from positive to negative then the right hand rule will tell you exactly what direction force is applied to the charges if they pass through a magnetic field. If you use the right hand rule for electrons flowing from negative to positive, then the answer provided for the same condition must be flipped 180° to be accurate.
@@timstill152 You are not wrong.
This makes me think of plasma confinement, really cool experiment
great video!