Ask a Greek Teacher - Can I Understand Ancient Greek if I Learn Modern Greek?
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
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If the difference between modern Greek and ancient Greek is the same as modern English and old English, then what on earth is the difference between English and Proto-Germanic?
I've read scholars say the best way to learn ancient Greek is by learning live modern Greek and then adding just around 2 more years of study
@Xaris Xeros this. You can try to put the eras in boxes but they're still conmected.
Koine was never common language of Byzantine Empire. It was a common language during Hellenistic period. Koine started to dying out at the very beginning of the Eastern Roman Empire and was dead when Greek replaced Latin as the official language.
W.T.F
@@arbers7271 K.L.M.
Dude, did you watch the video? That's obviously wrong!
On the other hand, studying ancient Greek has improved my modern Greek immensely (everything goes great until I reply in Attic).
whaha! I think my grandmother once tried to ask for the way in Italy, but her Latin was better than her Italian. It didn't get her very far, sadly xD
I am Greek and Learning Ancient Greek, I find it very hard.
😀😀😀.you are learning ancient greek but the ancient greek didn't existed is a fake history manipulated by some priests while modern greek is koine a church language was spoke only by church
because of our education system. Schools do not use the right way for ancient greek teaching.
Speaking for myself as a non native Greek speaking person, studying Modern Greek has helped me get a real feel for Greek that I could not have gotten if I had just studied Koine Greek only. Those who study Koine Greek with Erasmian pronunciation from American educators who are not native Greek speakers are learning from someone who has a butchered pronunciation and is passing this bad pronunciation onto the next generation. It is like Koreans in Korea teaching English to Korean kids with really bad English pronunciation using transliteration charts to memorize how to pronounce English words. The results are a disaster. I spent 6 years in Seoul Korea teaching English and the results of the process is just hilarious. No doubt if there was a native Koine Greek speaker alive today listening to an American instructor of Koine Greek read bible passages they would bust out laughing. If you want to get a true and correct feel for how to pronounce the New Testament in Koine Greek your best bet us to study Greek Orthodox pronunciation and learn Modern Greek from a native Greek speaker.
Did you enjoy your time teaching English abroad in Korea? I'm thinking of that as a potential future career option, as I love foreign cultures and languages
@@rickynoodles2816 yes,, I really enjoyed it and would recommend it to anyone!
No, Modern Greek is too different
@@strongbutthead far better than studying Erasmian pronunciation...
You're right. The modern Greeks can actually pronounce ancient Greek correctly. Now that I'm learning the right way to read and write ancient Greek, I realize how many people who teach it have the pronunciation entirely wrong. People who grew up reading Greek letters as their first language and used it their whole lives know how to change the accent and emphasis on their letters correctly. There has been extensive research on this, and you are absolutely correct.
I’m Italian. I took five years of Latin and Greek in high school, but unfortunately can’t really speak either, since ancient languages were taught just for the sake of translation and cultural enrichment rather than actual linguistic acquisition. Anyway, I learned all the grammatical rigmaroles (I mean ALL) and boy was it hard.
First two years were spent on morphology and simple texts like Aesop and the like.
Year 3 was devoted to the Iliad and the Odyssey, yes in Homeric Greek (which syntactically is far simpler than Classical Attic, believe it or not).
Last two years were dedicated to Hesiod, the tragediographers, the philosophers, the historians (Herodotus was ok, Thucydides was hell), and the great orators like Lysias.
It was HARD.
Never translated New Testament koine while in school, but when I had the chance, I found it ridiculously simple. I mean, nearly simplistic if compared to the Classical stuff. Eighty percent of the grammar is gone, sentences are short and clear, often repetitive, and connected by “and” more often than by subordination, which would be the norm in Classical Attic instead.
The vocabulary of NT koine is obviously linked to the religious sphere, but all in all is still recognizably Ancient Greek.
So here is my response: modern Greek speakers with an excellent command of their own mother tongue CAN understand Ancient Greek texts as long as they conform to the simplified syntax of modern Greek, just like the language of the New Testament.
However, if exposed to more complex texts in classical Attic, they may well pick up some or many isolated words here and there, even some clauses, but the order of the phrase and the super complex grammar will probably puzzle them.
Finally: can’t stand the simplified spelling τώ θεώ (which for me means “the two gods”) instead of the true dative case τῷ θεῷ (to the god/to God). At least please keep the iota: τῳ θεῴ.
Well, it is said that Latin sounds like Italian with older words like Shakespearean to modern English
@Apollo's Gift - Who knows. Archaic Latin must have sounded decidedly odd to Romans in the classical period, if a true master of the language such as Cicero himself stated he could not understand the ancient Carmen Arvale, which he had been forced to memorize as a young student. There were unfamiliar words such as _losna, duenos, iouesat_ for the Classical _luna (moon), bonus (good), iurat (he/she takes an oath)_ plus a lot of orthographic inconsistencies which suggest there were more vowels than in later stages of the language.
Even during the empire there were attempts to introduce extra letters to express certain phonetic nuances, such as the sonitus medius (middle sound), probably something like [ɯ], which does not exist in Italian. Equally non-existent are the nasalized vowels of Classical Latin. Many consonant clusters have been reduced. Nothing is known about intonation.
So, did Latin sound like Italian with older words? Nah. But it may be a decent approximation to the general sound of the language.
I'm happy you know this much about my language. One thing to note though. τῷ θεῷ is dative singular, and means "to (the) god" whereas τῶ θεῶ is dual nominative/accusative meaning "the two gods"
Δόξα is a noun that means glory, so Δόξα τῷ θεῷ means "Glory to God" or in more natural English thank God. Though, both dual and all the diacritics have vanished, because in ancient Greek they signified a phonetic difference that has been lost ever since koine.
killerlightning - Yes, if you read back my comment, I translated τώ θεώ (more correctly: τὼ θεώ) in the dual (nom./acc./voc.). The dative is a very useful case, too bad it got replaced by εἰς plus the accusative. One of the "rigmaroles" and definitely nightmares while translating ancient Greek back then in school was precisely the different meaning of the same preposition with different cases, because yes, they could combine with more than one. Anyway... I had a thing for the dative, probably because it could assume several forms, particularly in Homeric Greek: θεοῖς/θεοῖσι(ν) in the plural, and θεοῖν/θεοῖϊν in the dual. The latter, θεοῖϊν is particularly intriguing because it could imply -οῖ(h)ιν, akin to Sanskrit -bh-, or -ο(ϳϳ)ιν, which would be a uniquely Greek innovation. Then there was the dative plural of personal pronouns, ἡμῖν ὑμῖν, probably akin to Germanic -um, and scattered words exhibiting an instrumental-dative, such as ναυφῖν "by/with/on boats".
Could you help me with recommended materials?
What books and other materials did you use for each year?
Me studying Koine Greek: WAIT THERE'S NO DATIVE CASE OR MIDDLE VOICE ANYMORE?
Hi David, no there are not. Modern Greek's been simplified a lot. Moreover, most diacritic marks have been dropped too. There is pretty much just one left, marking the accented vowel (maybe the diaeresis too, though haven't seen it in years... I think the diphthongs requiring a diaeresis have been also simplified, but not sure).
If there is no middle voice, what about the passive? Had only the active voice survived? (Even considering aorist tense)
@@szilveszterforgo8776 Passive voice has not been dropped, it is still in use. As a general guide, the nominative case ending of passive verbs in singular present tense is "-μαι" (pronounced: meh). In active voice, the corresponding ending is "-ω" (omega, pronounced: oh). Some verbs have a passive or an active voice only, while others have both.
@@hec-hotelegantclothing290 Oh ok. I don't know modern greek, only ancient.
My thoughts exactly!
In a nutshell, learning modern greek can help you UNDERSTAND an ancient text, but not being able to speak the language. Most of us cannot, unless we pay for classes. Ancient Greek in schools in meant to help us understand our own language, so they mostly just teach us grammar or vocabulary.
The Greek Government is paying its best students of the ancient forms of the language, to study for Masters DEgrees and Doctorates in Attic and Koine Greek At Cambridge and University College London. They then go back to Greece to teach Ancient Greek in Greek High Schools.. At UCL in London where I studied Classics from 2001 to 2006. We were taught Modern Greek Pronunciation from Cyprus to read the Ancient forms of the language. . The modern word for boat comes from Turkish as the Turks who occupied Greece for 400 years did a lot of damage to the Greek language. The Greeks have to choose whether to use the almost clean Greek from Cyprus or the Demotic Greek from Athens. This has about 30% Turkish vocabulary , whereas the Greek Cypriots for political reasons prefer to use "" Clean Greek ""
@@sheilanixon913 30% turkish vocabulary in demotic, how on earth did you come up with this 😂😂🤣🤣
Hi Stefania, you forgot to mention that many of the ancient Greek words that have changed, actually live though others and are actually commonly used. Take as example the word you used, , is now in demotic Greek but the word lives through words like which means firefighter, which means fire department and which means pyromaniac. This is the case for many other ancient Greek words that have changed.
Πυροδότηση, πυρόσβεση, πυρασφάλεια, πυρίτιδα, πυριτιδαποθήκη, πυροτέχνημα.
Pirómano/a/s in Spanish
I do not agree with the statement of that video. If you master modern Greek you will get an around 60-70% understanding of Koine Ancient Greek, especially if you are reading it. What you won’t be able to do is to reproduce what Ancient Greek sounds like, as you will pronounce it with modern Greek dimotiki sounding.
As i teach ancient Greek i can insure you that even greek students can not understand ancient Greek only a few words. To learn ancient Greek you must learn the modern an then ancient as another language with some in common. Grammar mostly and the syntactic are quite different from the modern. Therefore greek students at high school with social snd anthropological intrests have 5 houres courses per week for at least 2 years and they already were studying ancient Greek ( 4-6 houres / week for 4 years). Then only with syntaxis can understand basic ancient greek.
@@ΝάνσυΚουτσοθανάση What do you mean by "only with syntaxis"?
@@HansDunkelberg1 what i mean is that the knowledge of the correct compile / syntactic of a sentence is apsolutely necessary for the correct understanding of a text, except from the vocabulary, from wich the meaning could be different depending of the syntactic.
@@ΝάνσυΚουτσοθανάση Is the syntax of classical Greek similarly convoluted like the one of Latin?
To sound authentic a great way is to learn modern greek first. Or else you sound fully ignorant
Just my 2 cents...
If you learn modern Greek in good level you will propably recognise most of the ancient words, Or understand the root of those words and the general meaning.
We may not use the word pir (Πυρ) but we use it as pira (Πυρά) with a simiral meaning, or piro-svestis (Πυροσβέστης) meaning fire fighter.
We rarely use the word idor (Υδωρ) but we use the word idragogio (Υδραγωγείο) aquaduct
Phrases like Doksa to Theo (Thanks God) are used as is, and everyone understand them.
@Orion AlcId So πυρα is used mostly in expressions. Also for a manually ignited fire.
And it has gained an extra meaning, that of shooting, I would assume after the discovery of gunpowder, conveniently named ΠΥΡίτιδα.
In Ancient Greek the upsilon was pronounced as a "u" and not as a iota - so pur instead of pir. Hence why there are three letters for the same sound (upsilon, èta and iota) in modern Greek, in Ancient Greek they used to be different sounds (and hence why in the Latin alphabet - 700BC - the letters that are derived from them still sound similar). Having studied Ancient Greek for 5 years, I could understand simple phrases written on signs, books, maps and such. The language is, apart from the use of the same dialect, oddly similar and oddly different. But the main difference, to me, is the way it sounds. I'm not able to talk Ancient Greek (well, maybe a couple of simple sentences) or understand spoken Ancient Greek (again, maybe a couple simple sentences) as most of it is restricted to reading, but Modern Greek sounds so different. It sounds more feminine (Ancient Greek has lower-pitched, harder and more expressive sounds) and it flows better (probably due to the "v"). I feel conflicted about learning modern Greek, because I love the country, the culture, but especially the history (big surprise there), but the language sounds like heresy; it just feels like Ancient Greek but so "wrong".
@@ewoudalliet1734 Why don't they get a spelling reform already? It sounds nearly as bad as English lol!
A native Greek speaker already knows an enormous Ancient Greek vocabulary. With a little bit of thinking and a little bit of study, a native Greek speaker can easily pick up the Greek of any era. I native Greek speaker learns naturally all the composite words which are our direct connection to our ancestors. For example, We may call a boat βάρκα now days and not the ancient ναυς, but we say ναυτικό, ναύλος, ναυπηγός, ect. But, for someone to learn from scratch the composite words and then using them to discover the ancient roots of words and recognize the ancient words is probably too much work. Therefore, what I am saying is if you are not native Greek concentrate on your objective, and don’t worry about the connection of modern Greek to ancient or koine.
Yes. They are the λόγιες words. Like λεωφορείο.
ua-cam.com/video/lIkDJiZGeWg/v-deo.html
With modern albanian you can understand "old greek'", without special studying.
@@fatonafmedoski7040 This is news to me! Where did you derive such BS? As far as I know, there isn't any connection between Greek and Albanian, other than word borrowing from one to the other during the later part of the Ottoman occupation. If you disagree, give me a single example of Albanian connection with classical or koine Greek.
Don't be so aggressive. Your reaction is BS. There is no reason to be disrespectful...
"Αλς" for "θαλασσα" reminds me of Gauguin's painting Fātata te Miti (Near the Sea). "Miti" means "sea" in Tahitian, but "salt" in some other Polynesian language.
Αλς became Άλας, Αλάτι which means salt in Greek!
I prefer old hellenic language with doric dialect. More of sicily were doric as Akràgas and Syrakousai ( Agrigento e Siracusa). +1👍🇬🇷🇮🇹 have nice day!!!
''The man'' in Ancient Greek (declension) ὁ ἄνθρωπος, ἄνθρωπε, τὸν ἄνθρωπον, τοῦ ἀνθρώπου τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ. ''The man'' in Modern Greek : ο άνθρωπος, , άνθρωπε, τον άνθρωπο, του ανθρώπου. So, many things disappeared, but what remained is just incredible. I know no other language that kept so much ancient stuff and diclensions, conjugations, etc. I'd say ancient Greek is the basement of modern Greek but many words and prepositions disappeared.
50 years ago it was most likely the exact same as the ancient. We were using Katharevousa back then.
@@argentianguis6510 Well, even with katharevousa modern Greeks pronounce the same way ι, η, υ, ει, οι. Many scholars consider that in the past those letters were not pronounced the same way.
@@debo2128 That is true, it was simplified with time during the early Byzantine Years. Iotakismos...its a thing 🤷🏻♂️
I think you hit all the relevant points in the video. I studied Koine Greek first (to read the Bible) and then Modern. Modern was very easy to learn and I felt like I already kind of understood it--definitely not like learning a new language. I still study both and I feel that one reinforces the other, i.e., my Koine is better because I know Modern and vice-versa.
One question is why greek language (and other languages) has been simpified so much. Ancient greek language was a powerful tool to express thoughts and analyze phenomena and situations.
takes less time and and effort to communicate, i suppose
Nobody really knows why but while Indo-European languages tend simplify their inflections over time, this is not true for all language groups, Finno-Ugric languages have a tendency develop more complex inflections over time.
What I want to know is... Would learning modern Greek be useful for later learning Koine Greek, or would it make it more complicated for me?
Πυρ is not used but we use πυρά (fire), πυρκαγιά (natural fire), πυροσβέστης (firefighter), πυρασφάλεια (fire safety)...., same for υδωρ, we use υδραυλικός (plumber), υδρατμός (watering), υδρορροή (gutter), υδρόβιος (aquatic)...
These are all compounds formed by Katharevousa. These words didn't exist in demotic Greek. The entire greek vocabulary for scientific, literary and technical purposes had to be reestablished and standardized by the Katharevousa since the language of the rural Greek population has become too simplistic, poor and unsuitable after the fall of Byzantium. How ironic actually...
@@enyalios316 Whatever the reason, ancient Greek is still present in modern Greek.
@@enyalios316 so what? These are names for modern things. Every language had to come up with a name for them. English is mostly loanwords but it's still a language
This is just the question I've been wondering about!
After 2600 years 70% words remain the same between Greek Homeric and Greek modern. Divergence major are sintactic and grammatic. Homeric poems were written this way , in Ionian-Athenian dialect.
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Start Odysseia - Τext Greek Omeric , 6th cent bc.
1 .ΑΝΔΡΑ ΜΟΙ ΕΝΝΕΠΕ ΜΟΥΣΑ ΠΟΛΥΤΡΟΠΟΝ, ΟΣ ΜΑΛΛΑ ΠΟΛΛΑ ΠΛΑΓΧΘΗ, ΕΠΕΙ ΤΡΟΙΗΣ ΙΕΡΟΝ ΠΤΟΛΙΕΘΡΟΝ ΕΠΕΡΣΕ ΠΟΛΛΩΝ Δ΄ΑΝΘΡΩΠΩΝ ΙΔΕΝ ΑΣΤΕΑ ΚΑΙ ΝΟΩΝ ΕΓΝΩ.
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Odysseia - Traslasion in modern Greek by Constantinos Doukas 2007.
1.ΑΝΔΡΑΝ ΕΙΠΕ ΜΟΥ ΜΟΥΣΑ ΠΟΛΥΤΡΟΠΟΝ ΠΟΥ ΠΑΡΑ ΠΟΛΥ ΠΛΑΝΗΘΗ,ΤΗΣ ΤΡΟΙΑΣ ΙΕΡΗΝ ΠΟΛΙΝ ΠΟΡΘΗΣΕ,ΠΟΛΛΩΝ Δ'ΑΝΘΡΩΠΩΝ ΕΙΔΕ ΑΣΤΕΑ ΚΑΙ ΝΟΥΝ ΕΓΝΩΡΙΣΕ.
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Start Iliade - Text Greek Omeric 6th cent bc.
2.ΜΗΝΙΝ ΑΕΙΔΕ , ΘΕΑ, ΠΗΛΗΙΑΔΕΩ ΑΧΙΛΗΟΣ ΟΥΛΟΜΕΝΗΝ , Η ΜΥΡΙ΄ ΑΧΑΙΟΙΣ ΑΛΓΕ
ΕΘΗΚΕ,ΠΟΛΛΑΣ Δ΄ΙΦΘΙΜΟΥΣ ΨΥΧΑΣ ΑΙΔΙ ΠΡΟΙΑΨΕΝ , ΗΡΩΩΝ.
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Iliade - Traslasion in modern Greek by Constantinos Doukas 2007.
2 .ΜΗΝΙΝ ΑΔΕ ,ΘΕΑ,ΤΟΥ ΠΗΛΕΙΑΔΟΥ ΑΧΙΛΛΕΩΣ,ΟΛΕΘΡΙΑΝ,ΠΟΥ ΜΥΡΙΑ ΣΤΟΥΣ ΑΧΑΙΟΥΣ ΑΛΓΗ ΕΘΕΣΕ,ΠΟΛΛΕΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΙΕΣ ΨΥΧΕΣ ΣΤΟΝ ΑΔΗ ΕΣΤΕΙΛΕ , ΗΡΩΩΝ.
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Homeric words in Italian language.1 .andro-(ide), epico, musa, tropo-(sfera) , poli-(edro) , iero-(monaco) , antropo-(centrico) , (para)-noia.
2 .mania* , dea , myriade , algia , teca , psyche , Ade , eroe.
* L'ILIADE Begin with the word μῆνιν -(menin) , accusative of μῆνις .Homer, wrote in Ionic dialect . Μῆνις in Doric dialect --> μᾶνις (manis , mania).
GOOD ADVICES!
Short answer: You can definitely read it and understand it.
There are different schools of thought about how Ancient Greek used to be pronounced.
But one can only speculate on the topic of right pronunciation.
So by learning modern Greek you might then tend to pronounce Ancient Greek by using the pronounciation of modern Greek.
I've made a decision to start with "classical Greek" which is unusual since I've up to now I've only been interested in modern languages that allow me to watch and read the new as it occurs today. I'm attracted to the idea of being able to read Plato or Euclid in their own words.
As a modern Greek speaker, I must say I am not sure I agree entirely: the description is quite accurate, however, I do believe that learning one definitely helps significantly towards learning the other. It may be a bit similar to how learning Italian would help you learn and understand Spanish. I think that a decently educated Greek could easily understand a good 80% of a Koine Greek text. This might be more difficult, however, if the text was pronounced in the original pronounciation
I'm learning modern Greek as a second language and I disagree with this video entirely. Just from only learning modern Greek, I have read multiple books of the Bible in koine Greek and understood it. So this video is pretty off. Maybe I would agree with Homeric Greek, but not koine, koine is pretty similar to modern.
"Can learning modern Greek help me understand Ancient Greek"
*Well yes, but actually, no.*
Well that's not very ptosi ditiki of you!
You're wrong. Modern Greek is based on Ancient Greek
You guys are malakes
Αφροδίτη Σοφοκλέου what was that? Im sorry im not actually greek hihihi 😊
Αφροδίτη Σοφοκλέου I think it means wanker but is used with friends like the word ‘guys’ and ‘dude’. Am I right? I’m just interested in learning Greek haha :) I knew the word from the game “Assassin’s Creed Odyssey” 😂
This information is not entirely true. I believe if you read Philemon Zacharious's book on the history of Greek, then itll be very easy to understand that modern greek is the ONLY language that can accurately get us to Koine. And it's not a far drive.
the secret to learn ancient greek
is to learn the dialects of ancient greece
....
lacrima --> dakri the "l "became "d "
buenno < bonne deinos = big and good , great
if u play the sounds d,l ,f b, etc .....u find the word
from the koini greek lunguage !!
if u know modern greek u understand koini (2000 years old )
if u know koini u understand ancient greek
but between modern and ancient greek is ....much studing to make the connection ( specially the grammar)
so i suggest ... learn ...and time reward the couregious :)
We may call the Ancient word πυρ in modern Greek as Φωτιά. However all compound words such as fire brigade is Πυρ- οσβεστικη, or fire-proof, Πυρ- ασφάλεια as respectively with the word ύδωρ.
We do have υδρα-γωγιο,water pump station, the word water carrier, υδροφορα.
As a result the modern Greek learner eventually has to come to know the Ancient form for the understanding of the origin of its meaning in the modern version of its usage.
Don't forget to mention the "Καθαρεύουσα" (Katharevousa)....
“It’s all Greek to me!.” 👍🏻🏴🇬🇷
Yes, absolutely! But ONLY if one knows WELL modern Greek and also has do some practice in reading the ancient text. Its more just a matter of practice, if one learns well modern Greek.
I can read and understand ancient Greek from around 50% to 90/100% just with my modern Greek, and no lesson in ancient Greek ever. I only read from time to time a little the texts from the original. Slowly, day by day, one comes to a level to understand all the text naturally.
99% of modern greeks can't even realise that the words they see in an ancient text is the very same they use today.Thats because they are preoccupied with the theory that it's a different language.This combined with the fact that the greeks start learning English before entering the ancient greek lessons, makes the kids adopting the same tactic to learn the same language they speak.I wasn't good at ancient greek , neither I can tell you this is that or this is the other, same as modern greek I've forgotten the 70% of the grammar regardless of my correct speaking, though I've opened the books of Plutarch, with modern greek alongside the ancient text, i could not accept that I can't read it, so I've tried , as much as I could, to avoid words we don't use anymore and I found that I could understand them, I was even able to see the "translation" being wrong, you can't translate a greek world that is still in use into a different greek word, that's no sense.So yes a greek speaking person can understand ancient greek if they are to wake up early from the misguided way of learning something they already know, learning ancient greek won't give you a degree.All I know is that Constantine Palaiologos spoke a tongue my grandparents were learning in their school,and if I give the words of Constantine into a modern greek he will look on them like it's something out of Chinese.The greeks have been guided into ignorance of what they already know.Proof is that many of them hear every week the words of the holy bible and they can't understand the obvious, they may hear over a decade the famous phrase " πλούσιοι πτώχευσαν και πείνασαν, οι δε ζητούντες τον Κύριο", "wealthy men became poor and turned to God", they won't be able to tell you the meaning of the very words they use in everyday life, cause their mind lives in ignorance.And of course, the state as a faithful puppy of the western school, introduced the ancient greek directly into the system(because the westerners did so) overcoming a millenia of medieval greek that brought the language in it's modern form.So you can't read ancient greek texts and also you can't read medieval greek texts, so profit from learning ancient greek in school is zero, go to church every Sunday and ask the priest, you have bigger chances to learn ancient greek from reading the bullshits they teach in school.Antigone and stupidity, Plutarch and again Plutarch.
Well as a native speaker,I don't agree with your answer.Cause for me the reality is,that everything has to do with the teacher you had and if you understand how things have changed.If you understand the changes,it's really easy to understand even Homers period.Yes for sure most of the words Homer used (and during the archaic period) have changed,but we use all of that words in mixed words (i don't know the term in english).For example.You mentioned the word ύδωρ.Water. (by the way that wasn't a good example cause we still use that word in many cases).In modern Greek we use the word νερό mostly.But we use the word ύδωρ as well.The mixed words don't use the word νερό thou.So when we are talking about the profession of a plumber we call him υδραυλικό.The υδρ comes from ύδωρ.If someone checks all the mixed words in modern Greek,he will find all the vocabulary of the ancient language,even from the period of Homer.Another example is the word horse.In ancient Greek it's ίππος.In modern Greek it's άλογο.But when we are talking about horse power,we say ιπποδύναμη.Ίππος and δύναμη power.So my answer is that native speakers,can understand at 80% the classical era.If a foreigner has a good teacher to learn modern Greek,he will understand ancient Greek too after studying a bit (1 or 2 years).There are thousands of Greek words that western languages uses,Like so it's going to help them as well if they are native speakers of those languages.Sorry for my English.
In Romanian, ίππος - ipo / hipo (horse), ipodrom / hipodrom (racecourse), iapă (female horse) and ύδωρ - udos (old word meaning water / liquid), ud / udat (wet), uda / udare (splashing with water).
Excellent video, thank you for sharing your knowledge, God Bless All ❤️
Non Greek here, lived in Greece for 4 years and learned the language fairly well. When I see ancient Greek text I can maybe pick out 10-20% of the words, but the syntax is different and it's almost impossible to work out what the sentence is trying to say. Greeks who have gone on to higher education were, and I believe still are required to study ancient Greek, but from talking to many of them they can't read any more than myself.
Πυρ also means fire in modern greek but is restricted to military use (= to fire a canon)
Υδωρ is still use in the form of the prefix Υδρ- in words like
When you say ancient Greek, what exactly do you mean?
The koine Greek of the Roman times?
Or the attican dialect of the 5th century BC?
I recommend you guys, who set this qestion to learn both.One will help to some degree to complete the knowladge of another.As for me I study both ,started many years ago from ancient greek and last year neaellenika.I highly recommend to start from Modern spoken Greek or you can do it in parallel but starting from Classical Greek needs some patience and even some experience of foreign language learning.Another thing is 8n case of Ancient Greek you concentrate on reading skills because almost the only practical way of using Antient Greek is reading of classical literature.
Also note that even if you learn Ancient Greek ypu will not be able to read Homer's Illiad and Odyssea because Homer used another dialect and the language quite differs from that which is used in the works of Plato ,Aristotle or New Testament.
Συγχαρητήρια στο κανάλι σας κ στην προσπάθεια που καταβάλλεται,ούτως ώστε να διδαχθεί η μοντέρνα Ελληνικη στους αγαπητούς αλλοεθνείς!
Παρ'ολα ταύτα θα μου επιτρέψετε να κάνω μερικές παρατηρήσεις,ενστάσεις αν θέλετε.
Ο λόγος που μπορούμε κ καταλαβαίνουμε την Καινή διαθήκη,την κοινή Ελληνική δηλαδή,δεν είναι διότι διδαχθηκαμε αρχαία Ελληνικά στο σχολείο.Εδω μια μικρή παρένθεση.Στο σχολείο ουδείς Έλλην έμαθε κοινή Ελληνική.
Διδαχθηκαμε μόνο Αττική κ Ομηρική διάλεκτο,Επανέρχομαι λοιπόν λέγοντας πως ο λόγος που οι σημερινοί Έλληνες καταλαβαίνουν την κοινή Ελληνική,είναι λόγω της καθαρεύουσας,η επίσημη γραπτή γλώσσα της Ελλάδος μέχρι την δεκαετία του1970.
Η καθαρεύουσα μπορεί να μην διδάσκεται πλέον,αλλά δεν την απαγορεψαμε.Στην βιβλιοθήκη μου έχω πολλά βιβλία στην καθαρεύουσα,όπως την ιστορία του Παπαρηγοπούλου,αλλά κ νεότερα βιβλία που ακόμα εκδίδονται χρησιμοποιώντας την.
Είναι μια διάλεκτος θα λέγαμε που γίνεται εύκολα κατανοητή σε κάποιον που μιλάει την Δημοτική,εξάλλου μην ξεχνάμε πως καθαρεύουσα διδάχθηκαν οι πατεράδες και οι παππούδες μας!
Ένα λεξικό χρειάζεται μόνο(όπως πάντα!)κ μπορεί να κατανοήσει την γλώσσα ο κάθε μέσος Ελλην με στοιχειώδη μόρφωση.
Οπότε αν κάποιος θα ήθελε να μάθει την κοινή Ελληνική,τότε επιβάλλεται να μάθει νέα Ελληνικά,δημοτική δηλαδή ΚΑΙ καθαρεύουσα κ να πηγαίνει προς τα πίσω σε αρχαιότερες μορφές της γλώσσας, γιατί η γλώσσα είναι μία.
ΥΓ. Γνωρίζω Αγγλικά αλλά όχι τόσο καλά.Γι αυτό το λόγο προτίμησα να γράψω στα Ελληνικά,μιας κ απευθύνομαι σε Ελληνίδα καθηγήτρια!Και τελειώνω με κάποιες λέξεις που αναφέρατε.
Το πυρ ,μπορεί σήμερα να το λέμε φωτιά,αλλά έχουμε τον πυροσβέστη,την πυρκαγιά,την πυρασφάλεια,τον πυρομανη κ άλλα.
Το ύδωρ μπορεί σήμερα να το λέμε νερό,αλλά σήμερα λέμε υδραγωγείο,υδροροη,υδραυλικός κλπ.
Την θάλασσα μπορεί ο Όμηρος να την αποκαλεί και αλς,σήμερα λέμε τον αιγιαλό (παρά της άλως ).
Αυτά τα "ολίγα" από εμένα,με όλο το θάρρος και σεβασμό!
Καλή συνέχεια!
Excellent answer and very helpful. Thanks.
By the way moon in ancient Greek is σελήνη which is female and the lunar month is the womens' cycle of period.
In modern greek moon stands for φεγγάρι which is neutral.
When I pronounce φεγγάρι I say it like there is an n (ν) before the first gama.
More chances with KOINE, and always depending on the level of academic education. I don't think that a Greek layman could understand Homeric verses or Plato dialogues beyond isolated words.
I studied Koine Greek and am aware of some features of Modern Greek. Sometimes I can understand a phrase or a title... but for more details I have to consult a friend or Google Translate!
You should have pointed out that this depends on the person. If your mind is not good with making connections, then all you have said is true. But for people just a bit brighter than that, it's possible. For me personally, koine Greek is 99.9% understandable. I'll only need a translation for some very rare words. Homeric Greek is very difficult yes, but I get 30% of it, if not more, without ever learning ancient greek.
It depends on the person, it's not a general rule for everyone.
For example, me, speaking Bulgarian, trying to communicate with Russians, most of them don't get anything, but with some we can talk and understand each other almost perfectly, and it's not even my native language.
Is the difference comparable between ancient and modern Hebrew? Or Latin and Spanish?
I am a Greek American. I notice that you pronounced the koine Greek as ko-i-ne Greek. How can you pronounce it that way. You must pronounce it keeni. Do you see the double dots over the yuota; No . Don’t tell me modern Greek through out the double dots!
I had learned modern Greek when I was at school prior to the 1978-82 language reforms and I remember reading the entire New Testament (all 4 Gospels) in just two evenings at the age of 10. It was written during Roman times, so I suppose it should count as ancient. Not sure how those educated in Greek after the language reforms would do, but reading New Testament Greek at that time was not much harder than reading from our schoolbooks.
3:14 you lost tme there. Did you mean that this phrase is not understandable by someone who have never studied ancient greek? this is even used in modern greek exactly like that.
I call bs on that. Most foreigners want to learn Koine Greek due to the New Testament. If you know modern Greek good enough you have to be completely stupid not to understand Koine Greek. It's super close. You could understand even ancient Attic Greek if you really put the effort. And of course Homeric Greek is much closer to modern Greek than Old English is to modern English, which is like a different language. At least in Homeric Greek many words are understandable
The teacher in the video mentions two traits that native speakers have: language feel and instinct.
And I totally agree with what she is saying. I am a native Greek speaker, and while I can recognize some words from a passage from Homer, I can hardly understand what he is saying. Things get easier and easier when as we progress to Herodotus and then the Bible.
Also many words from Homer's Greek, might look the same but have changed their meaning
@@troubauk Such cases of words retaining their shape and changing their semantics are especially misleading!
Dang it would be so cool if we could learn Latin and Greek in American Highschools
I'm studying Ancient Greek now and this seems similar to Chinese and Ancient Chinese, being that Ancient Chinese from 3000 years ago is incomprehensible to natives, while that from 2000 years ago is "somewhat" comprehensible.
Hearing Ancient Greek with modern pronunciation always surprises me. I’m so used to Υ sounding like ü that when I hear otherwise I have to actively think “wait, what was that word? How does it sound in classical pronunciation?”
I swear, trying to learn Classical Greek as a spoken second language is so much worse than Latin because there are SO many ways different people pronounce it. You functionally have to pick up listening skills for each one lol
Ancient Greek pronunciation was definitely different from modern greek, and Erasmus gets pretty close to Attic greek, even if not perfect. What actually matters a lot are vowel lengths that got lost in modern greek, but are tremendously important in ancient greek. A compromise to marry ancient greek with some sounds that feel alive may be the Lucian pronunciation (look up videos of ScorpioMartianus).
Ευχαριστο Πολυ, Στεφανια!
Speakers of Modern Greek can understand 80% of Koine Greek!
Funny - pyr and ydor are suggested as secondary translations by Google Translate. I find it hard to fathom that modern Greek would forego these words when pretty much the whole Latin word says stuff like "hydro" and "pyro" all the time
Greek is in South Italy language mixed with latin and Italian. It is not a problem.
Kinda Bullshit! It depends what you consider “Ancient” Greek. Koine can technically be considered “Ancient” as well, and most Fluent Greek Speakers would understand most of Koine from 2,000 Years ago..🤷🏻♂️
she said just that
@@bronzeagecollapse "Not Really" 🤣
Yes. Yes you can.
The phrases EY ZHN , TOIΣ ΜΕΤΡΗΤΟΙΣ , used in modern Greek too
Ευχαριστώ ήταν εξαιρετική, ευχαριστώ. είσαι μία όμορφη γυναίκα!
If you place right off the bat a very complex and philosophical ancient text in front of a Greek, he will obviously struggle. Especially if his vocabulary knowledge is relatively poor. Nevertheless, when I started reading the Athenaze It felt immensely easy to understand exactly what I was reading in Ancient Greek, and it felt to be the appropriate way to learn vocabulary (stems) that we already know and use. As a matter of fact, most of the Ancient Greek vocabulary is still used, it is just not immediately recognizable due to it being located in compound words and idioms. For example, today we might use Φωτιά (Fotia) in order to say "fire", but we still use the ancient word (Πύρ/Pyr) when we say Πυροσβέστης=Πύρ+σβήνω/Pyr+sveno/Firefighter. If one learns really well modern Greek, it will obviously be very easy to learn the Ancient form.
I've just started my Classic Greek journey and I'm well aware that it's just for reading literature from the classic period and that it won't be of much use on an actual trip to Greece. But I'm wondering if it will at least make studying Modern Greek faster/easier if I decide to do so later?
This video is a bit missleading. As a native Greek speaker i can assure everyone that if you know Modern Greek it's very, VERY easy to learn to write and read and understand Ancient Greek. BUT if you want to speak it with the actual ancient (pre-Koine or proto-Koine) pronunciation then you would be better off skipping learning Modern Greek and go straight to Ancient. The problem lies in the fact that you need to pronounce half the letters and most diphthongs in very different ways. That's why the extreme majority of native Greek speakers use the modern pronunciacion when it comes to Ancient Greek.
Αυτο που συνδεει την αρχαια ελληνικη με τη νεα ελληνικη γλωσσα ειναι η ετυμολογια.
Παραδειγμα....τηλε=μακρια.....τηλεοραση .......τηλε + οραση...η συσκευη που μας επιτρεπει να βλεπουμε κατι που βρισκεται μακρια
I was hoping learning Greek would help my English & had a recommendation to start with modern Greek, so...?
Hi can you tell me what would be meant by the modern translation of the word νηφάλιος - Thanks
νηφάλιος is called a person who is not under the influence of alcohol
Sober
Sober/prudent
Sober
Chaire malakes
I would have read that "e koinè fràse" not "i kinì fràsi" ;) for Italians the problem is the opposite: we study Ancient Greek in high school then we wonder how different modern greek is. In Athens I was able to understand most of the signage for example.. many words stayed the same.. no idea what the people said tho.
Im from greece and we are learning ancient greek but for me its very difficult but the grammar is more difficult in ancient greek and it needs a lot of work!
Yup δεν καταλαβαίνω τπτ ιδικά στα κείμενα είναι σαν να διαβάζω άλλη γλώσσα!
How do you translate
“Time brings all things to pass” in Ancient Greek
A quote by Aeschylus
Ἐκδιδάσκει πάνθ’ ὁ γηράσκων χρόνος.
Thanks!
@@ezee5354 My pleasure
@Robert Taylor I thing the quote, when translated literally it means “as time grows old it teaches everything(all things)” I hope it helps.
Good comparison ...between Old English, Middle English and Homeric, clasical Greek and Koine Greek nd modern Greek.
Great question. Thank you for sharing and your honesty on the matter. Interested in learning biblical or Koine Greek. What is the best way to learn it. I'm gradually learning on my own and have been reading or watching videos on the seeming "methods" controversies. What would you say and advise?
If a modern English speaker cannot understand Old English or even Middle English which was spoken until 5 centuries ago, I am pretty sure it is similarly difficult for Greek people to comprehend ancient Greek.
If anyone have such desire then should start with modern, move to katharevousa, then to late medieval greek and in the end to koine greek.It would be very very easy like that since every form is directly attached to the other.
I have always wanted an answer to this question which I could understand. Thank you.
We don't say αλς but we say αλιεύς and αλιεία... We do not say ύδωρ but we say ύδρευση
..,we don't say πυρ but we say πυρκαγιά , πυροσβέστης and more...and ancient Greek it's not much different than the modern Greek
We do say, πυρ και μανία
I have a suggestion. Avoid using all capital letters in your video graphics for English. It makes reading along very difficult as capital letters force the mind to slow down in order to interpret each word. Stick to lower case for legibility.
So grateful for your explanation
It seems to me that if you intend to spend any longer period of time in Greece, learn Modern Greek, and then fill in the blanks with extra study of koine or classical Greek, as the Greeks do. That way you are getting 2+ languages for less effort. Plus, you can't order food in a restaurant by quoting Homer to the waiter.
Well put. When I was a senior in high school, a teacher recited Beowulf to us in the original old English. I know we could not understand much, maybe nothing 🧐🤷🏽♀️
"ef zin" is similar to arabic. ef=??, but zin=good, well.
My yaya was calling salt as alas, with the ancient Greek word, alas is salt and als is sea.
Can I learn the Greek of Plato and Aristotle with your app?
Seria lo mismo que aprender castellano o italiano y tratar de entender latin clasico
He pensado lo mismo
Bueno, pero si eres nativo de Italia o de algún país hispanohablante aprender Latin es mucho más fácil que para un Ruso o un Japonés
@@angelmarquez5153 bue o obviamente,,, a lo que yo iba es, a su la diferencia entre el griego clásico y el griego moderno es igual a la que hay entre el latin y las lenguas latinas modernas
Thanks, you answered all my questions
It is not correct what Stefania says; Greeks can read and understand alot of an ancient script. Don't forget that Koine Greek is still used today in the Orthodox Church, and Koine is close to Ancient Greek. When I go to church and the priest reads the Gospel in Koine, I can understand most of it, and I am not highly educated, having only completed 12 years of school.
most people will disagree.
Τhe words ΠΥΡ and YΔΩΡ used in modern Greek today ..
The Greek Language is the same the last 5000 years
Rabish. Are you kidding? Today s Greeks can understand ancient greek, if they are only highly educated? You used the examples for that 1)"idor"-water. But in synthetic words, even today we say idravlikos. idroplano. idroelectriko.idatino. We still use the idor for watet. 2)"pir"-fire But in synthetic words we say pirosvestis, piravlos, pirimaho, antipiriki. We still use the pir for fire. Another example.3) "thira"-door But in synthetic words we say parathiro, ekparathirose, thira (in football stadiums). We still use the thira for door.
Θαρρώ η Στεφανία μας δεν ξέρει τι της γίνεται.
@@andrem1403 Θαρρώ σας αρέσει να επαίρεστε εθελοτυφλώντας
@@Michail_Chatziasemidis ua-cam.com/video/l5IzIGHWLd0/v-deo.html
Απο Αμερικανο καθηγητη. Η ελληνικη γλωσσα απο την αρχαιοτητα εως σημερα. Αντε και καλη χωνεψη. Και εισαι ασχετος, και το παιζεις εξυπνακιας.
I had friend from Greece. They told that if you graduate high school before 1990 you could understand ko I ne. 100%. These friend even knew Ancient Greek attic version but they were not able fully speak Ancient Greek but they could read and write. It was a mandatory part of your education. What’s more they could Cretan, Cypriot and Italian Greeks as well as Pontianak greek. These present day greek in their opinion were uneducated greeks
True.
Thank you, that helps a lot.
Can you make a video comparing an Ancient Greek v modern green?
What malakies are you saying to the people ... A modern greek of course will understand quite much of ancient athinian of classical age's becouse kini { as koine you say ) have these bases, and modern greek are the evolution of alexandrini kini.
It is very difficult to understand dorian or others dialect s , or Homeric or much more the oldest, but classical athinian it is quite easy!!!
Thank you
Thank you stefania, your teaching and explanatory about greece help me much. I am new to learn greek, i want to visit greece in next time,
Really interesting! Could we affirm that ancient greek (or better the standard ancient greek) is related to modern greek as latin to modern italian? Thank you!
No, that is far from the thruth. Modern Greek is MUCH much closer to Ancient Greek than Italian is to Latin. If you give an ancient text to a child fresh out of primary school (we dont study Ancient Greek till middleschool) it might not recognise all the words, but it will get the general meaning (in the majority of cases). If you give a child that knows Italian a text in Latin it will probably have no idea what the text is about. Dont get confused by any video in youtube. Modern Greek and Ancient Greek is the same language that naturaly evolved (or devolved if you prefer) through thousands of years of use, the main difference is the pronunciacion certain letters and their combinations.
@@lm7_gio Thanks for your explanation!
Im a native Greek spwaker fdom Cyprus but I didnt study ancient because i went to a private english speaking school
Koine is very much intelligible to me I can make out most of it
But anything ancient I do not understand almost at all
And that's he metric I go by when I try to guess which language it is
If it's 100% intelligible but not modern greek it's kathatevousa
If it's almost completely intelligible it's medieval
If it's mostly to somawhat intelligible it's Koine
And if I undsrstans some parts or some words only but the meaning is almost completely lost to me then it's gwneeally ancient
Can't tell between dialects or periods at that point
Thank you..
awsome video as always
I mean if we're being realistic, who would expect a place to retain the same language form over 3000 years and numerous foreign invasions? Even more so, since the 80s, a distinctive attempt to sever modern and Ancient Greek has been made in Greece, in aspects like schools, media and the state. Byzantine psalms from the 3rd century are probably more comprehensible to a Greek than old English of the 12th century to English people. Only Hebrew and probably Arabic have retained older language forms than this.
I do not understand your first sentence. Is there a typing error in it? Also, do you mean _sever,_ in your second sentence?
@@HansDunkelberg1 yes it was kinda wrong due in part to the auto corrector and a bit because I was in a hurry. Thanks for pointing it out
Thank you so much!