The Trials and Tribulations of the Coyotes Franchise From 1996 Until Now
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2023
- I wanted to make a video with this timeline to show that this team has been in trouble from the day they moved operations to the desert.
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Basically, the takeaway messages:
1. Make sure there is an owner with a couple hundred million a year in loose change (who isn't a Lalo Salamanca type as well)
2. Make sure there is a suitable building located somewhere downtown near a public transit stop.
Also, the on-ice product has to have success. The Coyotes making a few more deep runs into the playoffs could have made a lot of difference.
You forgot the most important thing: CONSISTENCY WINNING!!!!! The reason the Coyotes attendance is so bad over the years is because they have almost never been good. Never had an elite offensive talent to put butts in seats. That is NOT how you build a stable fanbase in a non-traditional market.
Phoenix is literally starving for a championship caliber team in any sport. If the Coyotes find extended success, the city will 100% rally around them again.
@@ICU-812 That more or less comes with stable ownership, I guess.
If the owner is ready and willing to spend, he'll also be interested in the on-ice product and winning.
Long time Winnipeg Jets fan here since the 80s. I remember when we lost the team the first time, got them back one last year, and then they were really gone. I went to the "funeral" in the old barn. To a young man and a young fan this was devastating and left a mark for years on the soul of the province.
I know there are Coyotes fans who would have the same reaction if the worst happens and I sympathize with them.
We have our Jets back now, and while that has been exhilarating, we count ourselves very lucky.
To the Coyotes fans, we are pulling for you, we know what it is to lose your team, and would not wish that on anyone.
I wish every hockey fan thought like this.
i lost my team the Minnesota North Stars then got em back in the WILD.
Stick-tap for James
The Wild aren't the same. I am Minnesotan but now I like the OIlers@@davidkuhlman8004
Man I feel terrible for their fans no one deserves to lose their favorite team
Why did you pluralize fan.
I don't mind them moving
Yeah, it's pretty shitty. I feel bad for their fans too. And with so many ignorant people saying who cares; but they don't have fans, and other idiotic comments it makes it so much worse for them. I'm hoping something comes through for them soon otherwise the move will happen.
Tell that to Winnipeg
Go and say that to Quebec City and Atlanta...
It's crazy how there are so many problems with this franchise before it even became a team. It's not even mentioned in the video as it's not necessarily relevant, but 2006 Coyotes coch, Rick Tocchet, was also involved in a scandal, accused of organizing bets on games that involved players in the NHL.
As an Islanders fan I absolutely sympathize with the Coyotes fans having gone through decades of our own arena trials and tribulations and arena moves. But we have been fortunate to finally have it resolved. I feel so bad for the Coyotes fans that their story looks unlikely to have the same happy ending.
Bruh, they are going to move the team.
The Islanders were bogged down with garbage LI politics and then moved to dreaded Brooklyn arena.
But it wasn't out if state man.
There is nothing WORSE than your beloved home team actually moving away
Gretzky as coach: Just keep in your mind a constant running visualization of where all 11 other players are on the ice, predicting their every move and effect on one another.
Coyotes: ... ... wat
That is a common problem with all time great players as coaches in any sport. When they are used to just being way better and more talented than anyone else, it is sometimes hard to think in terms of organizing a group of merely average players to play as a team.
According to Curtis Joseph's autobiography Gretzky was still vastly better in practice than most of the team. Must have been awkward on both sides. 🤔
@@1bert719considering he was still in his early-mid 40s at the time it's not surprising.
@@XaviRonaldo0 I think he was still light years ahead. Like your dad still beating you on a pond. Whatever it was I don't think he was a poor coach but with his name everyone expected him to be great.
@@1bert719 great players rarely make great coaches. You'll notice the best coaches were at best mediocre players with maybe the exception of Brind'amour
I've been watching Shannon for years now. And he's always very optimistic about the Yotes. So to see him say that it is looking like it could be the end of the road for this team...I know Arizona is in deep deep trouble.
This is why you are my #1 source for NHL related stuff. Excellent video.
SPONGEBOB TITLE CARD:
*Ten months later*
As a former Coyotes season ticket holder, I’d love to say thank you - THANK YOU - For your fair and accurate assessment of everything that happened. A lot of people want to pretend that the market was given everything and still failed when the fans received sporadic playoff success along with decades of instability. A far-flung corner of Glendale that borders Peoria isn’t the answer. If they can’t get a new arena downtown with the Suns or a suitable arena in either Mesa or South Scottsdale, then the best thing to do is to just move the team.
You can put a basketball court in a hockey arena. You can't put a hockey rink in a basketball arena.
As an Arizona native this situation is incredibly sad.
I know numbers don’t show it but the years that they made the playoffs (yes the bubble year included) all of greater Phoenix and or the whole State was rooting for them, especially when they made that deep run back in 2012.
I understand from a financial standpoint that the NHL might want to finally pull the plug but I think the Coyotes have never had a real chance to succeed in terms of having a stable home and having stable ownership/front office.
If they relocate, it will definitely be a big blow to the state as most most of the AZ teams we currently have seem to be on the decline and seeing a Coyotes group grow and have that potential to contend in 2026 (if they had a new building) would’ve been a sight to see.
But at the same time, being voted NO by over a 10% margin just shows that at this point the state and it’s legislatures don’t care for hockey here. And there are other locations they could try like the Old Coliseum downtown but again, that’d be resources that I don’t think the state wants to allocate.
Hockey can survive in Arizona. The Coyotes cannot.
i think the NO vote is more of a "no to a billionaire having the gov to extort money from us via the barrel of a gun to build something, he can build it himself" thing.
@@Dratchev241 the cleanup would have cost taxpayer money, the arena itself wouldn’t have. And given it’s the state of Arizona we’re talking about here, I think they were totally fine with being soaked by billionaires.
@tehbeernerd problem is majority of turn out was 65 + Easy to be manipulated, easier to sway, easier to lie too. Also doesn't help that Tempe1st had more funding. In the end sadly American elections are won by who has the most money. And it's eaiser to to do that a local level as well
@@tehbeernerd those nimbys will have to pay for it in a few years anyway.
And the tempe1st people won't pay it for them.
They got lied to big time and beliefed BS.
And while the coyotes did Not start Marketing from the get go to be on the offense and determine the narrative, you could believe that people would think longer or think in General.
Basically we as fans got screwed by a Karen.
And i don't Like being screwed by a Karen and i don't want to Date a Karen. No thank you.
The Footprint Center (formerly America West) was renovated several years back and literally couldn't even fit a NHL rink anymore. So that is out. Every bridge that can be burned in the Glendale situation has been burned. It is hard to imagine that is even possible. Any brand new arena would be AT LEAST 5 years out before a place could be found then the building planned and financed and then actually constructed. So they are stuck in Mullett for the foreseeable future and that is just impossible. Other owners are not going to accept the loss in revenue, players are not going to sign there unless they have no other options, and fans are probably going to trickle away since the prospects are so bleak. The Coyotes have said they are staying. I suppose they can hang on next season while settling new ownership and picking a location, but I have to think it is over.
I'm a new-ish NHL fan (8 years now) and don't know much of the history, especially teams outside my home team. I was trying to explain this to my husband and he was asking all these questions about the history that I didn't know so this is MUCH APPRECIATED!
Additional comment, I live in MN and we have coyotes here so they may have just kept the name
The team was the Winnipeg Jets before so if they moved to Minny and kept the name it would have been the Minnesota Jets@@BlueDoes93
Im really sorry Yotes fans, i hope this is resolved and your insane prospect pool blossoms in a couple years. Gotta be the toughest fanbase in the league at this point.
We are a very loyal bunch. Fans of the other 31 teams would’ve probably given up a long time ago. If you’re not a Coyotes fan and cheer for literally any other team, you have NO idea how good you have it… I would trade the past 27 years with any other team in a heartbeat.
I don't feel a damn bit of sympathy for a market which didn't deserve a team in the first place. Stole the Jets just like the Cardinals were stolen from St. Louis.
@@DNSKansas You nailed it. The Jets should've NEVER moved to AZ. I feel more sorry for Québec who has been beyond ready since 2009 to have their Nordiques back.
Even the Sabres?@@huntercopeland9371
An expansion team, brought into the market with 2-3 years advance notice and reviving the legacy branding of the "Phoenix Roadrunners?" Would work. But from even before the Jets were relocated the NHL's sojourn into Arizona has been done on the fly, with nothing planned in concrete. Jerry Colangelo was seen as a pillar of stability that'd make the team work, only to see him get into a bind with the Diamondbacks that forced him to put the Coyotes essentially to the back burner. It's been downhill since. Let them move. If the NHL really wants to, they can get an arena deal in place and then expand again, a la Seattle/Vegas.
True hockey fans would never place the blame on the Arizona fans, which are some of the most loyal in the league. The blame would have to be on the owners and the NHL. If the team does get moved, it'll be a sad day.
I honestly believe that if the arena project (not the whole entertainment district) was 100% privately funded it would have passed. The whole entertainment district could come later with a smaller hit to tax payer's wallets if tax money was used for that. People need to see results for the money they pay in taxes and not just money in billionaires pockets which is the perception.
Wow such a great video Shannon, you are encyclopedic on these things
I was a Coyotes fan right before the Bankruptcy. It has been a long rough road. These last two years have had the best feelings of turning the team around, then Tempe. The only thing the Coyotes need right now is an Arena in a good location. If they don’t have a proposal by the end of the summer then the next year will be the last. And that is sad because Phoenix is a good market, it just never had a good arena.
Three arenas and two indoor stadiums but... "What's another billion dollar arena, huh?"
It all started to go downhill when Gretzky was coaching with Tochett and Tochett was running a gambling ring and taking bets placed by Gretzkys wife.
The credibility of the organization was ruined.
And now Gretzky is doing commercials to promote betting on sports and Tochett is coaching in Vancouver 🤔
Uh OH!!! SSSSSSSSH the league doesn't want you to remember that.
😂😂😂😂😂
You make a good point about players desire to sign with uncertainty looming. Not only could free agents be difficult to sway, but what's a guy like Logan Cooley thinking when he can just wait out his college eligibility like so many others before him have? Tough situation for sure, feel for the diehard Yotes fans
I must say it has been tough and rough watching the Coyotes go through all this chaos. I've been a fan since 96' and even played hockey in AZ because of them. Whatever the outcome is, I'll still cherish and root for them to the end. If Salt Lake City is an option for a move, I'll be okay with it. I live in Idaho and am surrounded by Golden Knights & Kraken & Avalanche fans. Yes, Coyote fans are real, lol!
I'm in Wyoming... Similar personal history with the team. I think I'd prolly follow the team if it moved to SLC, but otherwise not sure what I'm gonna end up doing.
To me there are a few things that make Phoenix a tricky pro sports market. 1. Many people who live in the southern half of Arizona are transplants from other states and they root for the teams from those other states. 2. Arizona has two big colleges in Tempe and Tucson and people are fans of college teams more than pro. 3. The coyotes didn't come up with a plan for a new building after America West Arena didn't work as an NHL arena.
Remember our influx and exodus of snowbirds every year, too...
Another nice job by The Man to keep us informed
One thing that often gets conveniently forgotten about the Coyotes is the City of Glendale paying $25 million to cover the team's losses and keep them in Arizona back in 2011. It bought them enough time to avoid getting moved to Winnipeg (goodbye Thrashers as a result) and has kept this soap opera going for another decade. So whenever I listen to Alex Meruelo or anyone else from the Coyotes complain about Glendale, it's just amazing to me because without that vote 12 years ago, this team may very well have ended up in Winnipeg. I have to imagine that they have exhausted all their options in the Phoenix metro at this point and that relocation is the only option now
We all know if Meruelo gets nothing done, the league will hold Suns owner at gunpoint so he'll buy the team. Bettman is gonna kill this league.
I just came back from the Phoenix/Tempe/Mesa area while on vacation and it just happened to be the week of the vote. The most I heard about the Coyotes was on the news and radio was that the team might finally be done here in Arizona with an emphasis on the finally, as in they are sick of the fiasco and consider the team a sideshow to the other Phoenix area teams like the Suns, Cardinals, Diamondbacks, and college teams.
The most advertising I saw for the team was at the Phoenix Zoo where the team had apparently funded the Coyote habitat. A couple of faded logos on the floor and wall and a standee of the mascot that was being overgrown by bushes was all that consisted of.
When I called the team to see if they had a team store I could visit they told me all they had was a small kiosk they'd roll out for games, and I would be better served going to a sporting goods store.
So much for the sporting goods stores. A visit to Big 5 Sports, Dick's, and Just Sports and all they had was just a handful of discounted youth jerseys, a way overpriced replica "medium" jersey, and just the usual tshirts. There were more stuff in stock for visiting teams than the Coyotes!
Apart from the very few die hards that actually do go to games that I deeply sympathize with, the area just seems to have general apathy or outright disgust for the team based entirely on it's revolving door of ownership which seem to be an endless parade of cheapos, crooks, and entitled fools that can't or won't pay the bills who see NHL ownership as a stepping stool to better business opportunity connections because former major league team owner looks great on a resume.
At least two and half hours south in Tucson the Roadrunners are trying to make a name for themselves. Even though the season was over you still could find ads and places with souvenirs around town. Even then they don't seem to be drawing all that well with attendance in the low 3,000s. At least it looks like they are trying.
Part of me wonders if the attendance issues are because the hockey season is actually played during Arizona's "nice" time of the year? Right now the temperature is in the mid 90s and in the summer it's going up to the 110s to 120s. While the Coyotes are playing the temperature is in the mid 80s, that's when everyone seems to want to be out and about rather than cooped up indoors.
Jerry Colangelo asked Gary Bettman before building America West Arena now Foot Print Center if there was any plans for the NHL to come to Phoenix. Bettman had at the time said no.
The other location I feel an arena could be built although the old building would have to be torn down is The Veterans Memorial Coliseum at 19th Ave and McDowell in Phoenix.
I’m a Bruin fan in LA area. I loved going to see them in Glendale, I liked the arena and I could get a ticket for cheap. I went to the game in Mullett arena and that was fun to see so close up but man was it expensive. Hope they stay but not holding out much hope
Great video thank you
It seems to me that all those years of instability and lies, even if the current owners weren't involved then, is what really sunk the Coyotes. I feel bad for the fan base, especially the ones that have been diehard since the expansion(I know you're out there)
I am devastated by the entire situation. I really don’t want to lose my team.
As always I think you nailed it.
Great video. Sad for Yotes fans ❤ Shane Doan must be devastated too he dedicated his career to the Yotes and Arizona his home. I feel bad for the fans, the employees and for the kids who love Hockey. Sad all around❤
I was the FedEx dispatcher from 2003 to 2014 for the area that covers the Gila Bend Arena area in Glendale and the rest of the valley heading further west from there .The timing of the Coyotes move to Glendale could not have been worse .The Great Recession started to hit in that area before anywhere .In 2005 and early 2006 there were plans to build a few hundred thousand more new homes in the western valley ,In western Glendale,Avondale,Sun City West ,Surprise and even all the way out in Wickenburg .I was able to see some of the blueprints of the projects because we were going to need to add numerous routes to cover these areas which were already exploding in population since the early 2000s. Then 2007 came and so did the cancellations of all the new construction and we all know what happened in 2008 and 2009 everywhere else around the State , Country and the World .Arizona and the Las Vegas were probably the two areas hardest hit in the Country at that time, possibly Florida also .The western valley here would of added another million people to the population of Arizona by today easily .Maybe its a good thing looking back that it stopped the growth when it did , but there was a lot of pain inflicted to so many people of which the majority did things correctly by saving their money to purchase a new home with normal fixed rate mortgages that were not subprime junk ,many of them also had their home values cut 70,80 and even 90 percent and almost immediately ..from there the snowball of problems only continued to grow with sketchy owners dealing with sketchy city governments .Their only true chance would of been a state of the art hockey arena in Phoenix from the get go in the late 1990s that held 17 thousand or more with corporate suites ..Its a shame this state and its fans get the bad rap that they do .the fans in AZ are fine ,most of them are transplants from the Mid West ,East Coast and also Canada and know the game inside and out ..I came from Queens myself and have been a Islanders fan since day one in 1972 and we went through many of the same problems with governments ,owners and arenas, but fortunately the Isles are in a great place now and will be fine for decades to come ,but they were very close to the same outcome as what the Coyotes now are looking at ,personally i think a move to Utah would work ,even better would be Quebec of which ive always had a soft spot for since the Nordiques left ..either way the end is just about here now in Arizona which is sad , because we now have a solid base being built for youth hockey and a few players are making a very nice impact in the NHL ..but life goes on as they say and this is still a wonderful State to live in .
Our weather is only 5-7 degrees lower than Phoenix where we live here Shannon. Good time for you to be talking Phoenix so much :)
Thank goodness I'm still a kid, I still have time.
Thanks again man!
Arizona is that old dog you have that is clearly suffering but you don't have the heart to put it down.
Nobody can say that the NHL hasn't gone above and beyond in trying to keep a team in Arizona. BUT, enough is enough. Houston is the 4th largest city (population) in the USA. It's time!
I went and saw the islanders play in Brooklyn.. such a weird setup for a hockey rink
Thanks for doing this. Overall I don't think an NHL team is ever going to work in Arizona. There's too much baggage and negativity surrounding the history of the team in that state. How many 100's of millions has been pissed into the wind so far already?
A new arena is a billion dollars minimum.
A team can work in Arizona, just not the Coyotes
Hockey is beloved here in Arizona. The youth movement has exploded, we already have a big name who's from our state in the NHL, we have a D1 college team. The problem has always been poor management. A city is not going to show up when the team sucks. And if you go back and look when the Coyotes went to the playoffs people came out. Support was everywhere. Fans are here. But they want a winning product.
And that's not just hockey, look at the Dimondbacks. Powerhouse when they first arrived. BOB was practically always sold out or close to it. 2005 and onward attendance slowly whittled down. Team wasn't have success. And now Chase fields is practically empty most of the time.
The suns, the attendance is based on how well the teams doing. So their are sports fans here. They just don't want to put up with mediocrity. I can't say I blame them though.
@@devinaschenbrenner2683 What's that famous Marilyn Monroe quote? "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best."
Sorry you might lose your team, but what you said is not an excuse.
@@devinaschenbrenner2683
I get what you're saying. It looks pretty dismal as it is right now. A rebuild of the team could take 5 years at least. How is a team going to attract new players with the arena they're playing in? If the trust is broken with years of bad management and bad ownership, I don't see how the fan base would be patient enough to go through 5 years of rebuilding for a chance at a winning team.
@@lojzek91 To be fair again with poor management being around for basically the team's entire existence is there a reason to watch the team when you know it's never going to get good?? Like sure a team like Montreal or Colorado you know they'll draw because they usually have solid management or a team like Toronto with terrible management for the past 30 years you know they'll be half decent eventually so you can watch them when they're bad but with Arizona they've had one real successful season in 2012 and that's it. There's no reason to watch the team and it sucks that's the case. Using the "if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" as an excuse to try and combat the team having never been good that's not fair because it's not as simple as that.
Who’s here after the Utah relocation?
Towards the end of the video you asked "How far can this go."
"Houston." was my response.
Shannon the bottom line honestly is Arizona never had a fair shake. We havent had an Ownership group that put money into the team or just used them as a tax write off. Theres no city in North America that could stand this mess. I dont care how "Diehard" you are a fan. I grew up in St Louis where Hockey is a staple and had the benefit of 50 yrs of history. Most haters come from fanbases 50 - 70 years old. With I might ad where cups were won. That endears you to a team the Coyotes other than the first eight years was a failure. Tickets arent cheap for a team thats never even whiffed a cup but one season. Most haters that keep screaming move arebwhat I call NHL snobs mostly Canadian. Im glad you did this video Thank You Shannon and Thank You for being fair and not hating Arizona . Also the Tempe issue was idiotic a Liberal college town was never going to vote their way. Not to mention outside forces including unions came put against the team.
Why did they want Tempe and why did the league allow that to happen if it was so obvious that it would fail ? It's a question to ask.
The people who voted in that election were older and more right wing
@@phightinphil25 it was by far their best option: completely new building with little public funding (no public funding except for a few years of tax exemption). It wasn’t that obvious it would fail until the past few months when the plan was already in place.
I feel for Arizona fans. Hopefully the team moves and the NHL can give it 10-15 yrs to cool down before trying in Phoenix again. It’s too big a city, they won’t ever completely give up on it.
@@bradenwebb7307 To me it did seem to be headed this way when they went with the Tempe plan as well, in hindsight they should have paid their rent if possible in Glendale. I do feel for the fans that are left, but I feel the same for those in Quebec. No true sports fan should ever want a team to be relocated even if the team to be relocated is there rival.
Sub Zero911 your a typical Ignorant American
The Coyotes get hate for good reasons
The way you map this out Shannon...man, what a sad saga...there's "blood" on the NHL's/Bettman's hands...
It will be great for who ever buys this team, because they will get something that's up and coming.
Imagine moving a franchise to a place where after 27 years you still don't have a proper place to play.
My #4 reason you can't blame the fan base for the Coyotes leaving Arizona
Yup, 2 tickets were $500 (USD) a piece this past year, which made it $1400 Canadian
Dang, I will miss those beautiful kachina jerseys though. Best jersey in the league.
When it takes over 27 years to find out if it's going to work, then it's not going to work.
Elliotte Friedman basically saying that owners are big mad about the Coyotes situation is fun. This just gets juicier and juicier!
Saw a Coyotes game when they played in the Suns' basketball arena - lots of obstructed-view seats.
THG: "...There was a Simple Plan."
Bettman: "I"D DO ANY THIIIIIIING"
And Trials and Tribble-ations was a great DS9 episode!
Thanks for the insight, and putting it in a timeline for better context. I understand the Glendale county council being salty for getting had all these years. They probably bought into that this would be one of the driving forces to grow the area substantially, and it's sad that the synergies haven't panned out.
Potentially, it could've been what Arlington or even Fort Worth have become for Dallas, thus helping the Phoenix-metro area grow as a whole, and not put all the strain on just one city when it comes to population density and housing costs.
Bytw, great choice to put the front of the arena displaying the most über-douchy kind of event with the duplicitous message, in this instance to the Glendale legislature and voters: only you will ultimately be held accountable for greenlighting all this mess.
What basically happened with Glendale is they built the arena with the expectation an entertainment and shopping resort district would be built around it. Right after it was built and opened the real estate and housing market crashed killing the rest of the project.
The city was now in a hole with an arena in the middle of nowhere with a solitary tenant(The Coyotes) hellbent on fleecing them for everything they could and a city council that enabled it believing in a sunk cost fallacy that if they threw enough good money after bad they would see a profit.
A few years and special tax levies later the citizens voted out the entire city council for people who ran on entire platform of not putting up with the teams antics.
The team who was owned by a billionaire at this point decided he didn't have to pay his bills so the city all but locked him out of the arena in favor of brining in more concerts and other acts which has been much more lucrative.
This history is pretty much why Tempe said hell no than any union/teamster ad campaign. It's a bit too much of history repeating itself for it to be acceptable no matter how "fair" the deal in Tempe appeared to be.
On point reiteration! That too, is a well known fact, and sadly also a formula for failure, given that in terms of conservative risk assessment, the probability will very seldom point in favour of the entrepreneur.
A very gloomy outlook for any county council whose tax payers ultimately have to bear the burden for years to come, and probably sways a considerable amount of the population to ultimately move to neighboring counties with lower local taxes, at least in the short sight.
This video is basically a prelude and prediction for everything happening now. I feel so bad for all coyotes fans rn!
The Arizona Cardinals (who haven’t been great either) are located very close to Gila River Arena and they’ve been able to draw. The failure of the Coyotes has been ownership instability up until now. And they had pissed off their home city before they got a legitimate owner to invest in them.
It's much easier when the games are once a week & on a Sunday. Hitting a 6:30 pm game on a Tuesday in Glendale was never easy for the large chunk of the fan base who live in the East Valley.
You're overlooking that they don't play 42 home games a year. It's just a few trips and this is a state packed with people that love their football. Ask people to suffer through rush hour traffic on the 10 or 101 to get to a game on time and you're going to get looks like people think you're nuts.
@@parkerburns1528 I've never been in Arizona and I've known that for years. So many people don't understand those logistics. If that planned venue in Scottsdale had been approved and built a while back, there's no way the Coyotes are in this mess today.
Nice job. I would add this too. The NHL had sanctioned the Arizona Coyotes for violating the NHL's Combine Testing Policy during the 2019-20 season, directing the forfeiture of the Club's 2nd-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft and 1st-round pick in the 2021 NHL Draft.... The Mitchell Miller selection, players wanting out and the buying of LTIR contracts almost 30 million in dead money. Expect the unexpected were the ways of the Coyotes, always something going on there.
And that’s a wrap
When Ed Jovanoski says pull the plug. I'd say that's good advice. Houston is a bigger TV market. They got better support than The NBA with the Vancouver Grizzlies.
It’d be a shame if they left Arizona, Matthews was up next year
It'd be great if they leave that money pit and move to a place that'll actually care.
There's no guarantee he'd go there just because he was born there. If Matthews leaves Toronto I expect it to be for a market like LA not Arizona. But hey, I like your thinking though. It means McDavid goes to the Leafs when he's a free agent just because he's from there. 😉
Maybe matthews can save Arizona if they can survive
@@owenposer6720 Lmao. Ain't no 1 player saving that franchise. They'd already be dead if they weren't subsidized financially by the NHL teams that turn a profit. The Coyotes have never turned a profit in their entire existence.
Ultimate chaos would be if Matthews went home then they moved. Can you imagine?
The Tempe stuff came across the news here around KC. Patrick Mahomes stated that he wants the Coyotes here in KC. We have the T-Mobile center which was built initially for NHL/NBA teams.
I watched the Sabres play in Arizona on TV in 2021-202season I believe, and there was an enthusiastic happy crowd watching. As a Sabres fan since the 70's I noticed it right away. I feel sorry for the hockey fans in Arizona.
Honestly Hamilton is a $ maker idea. It has its own small market similar to Winnipeg and Quebec, but it also has the giant bleed over market with Toronto. Big GTA sales will happen since they can't get enough of the Leafs. It would even help Buffalo a bit with fans going to watch them play against Buffalo. Both Leafs and Sabres may not WANT Hamilton in, but it would make the league pretty good $. If the league ever goes beyond 32 teams and grows to 36 for the future, then you will likely see Hamilton and possibly Quebec added in the East.
Hamilton is not getting an NHL team. Not because I or you like the idea, but the NHL owners do not want Hamilton, or Quebec.
If the NHL goes to 36 teams, Quebec has a slim chance. Not at 34.
Thank you for this video. This is such a depressing time to be a Yotes fan. Will we even have a team after a year?
Nope
Remember former Sharks president Greg Jamison? He was supposed to buy the Coyotes when they were under league ownership. All the Coyotes fans looked at him as a savior, and he spoke to the media like he already owned the team. Bettman finally imposed Jamison a deadline to buy the Coyotes, only to find out that Jamison didn't have any money! The NHL dodged a bullet, or should I say, dodged a John Spano.
You could do the same video on the hartford whalers
After leaving Winnipeg, America West Arena (now the Footprint Center) wasn't built with hockey in mind, Gila River Arena (now Desert Diamond Arena) is all the way across the Valley from where the hockey fans and money reside and while Mullet Arena is in the right location, it's too small to be a long-term option, especially with revenue sharing and hockey-related revenue likely causing the ticket prices to be higher than usual. I hope they can get a building anywhere from Phoenix to the East Valley so they can be stable in the Valley.
Stop it. Quit making Phoenix seem like the New York.
If the team was any good it wouldn't matter how far away they are, the fans would come. Your city is in a damn desert surrounded by dirt & sun. You're the only thing for 100 miles.
Three arenas aren't enough?... ✋🏾🗿
Hockey news:
-You have ESPN, a behemoth in the media industry with billions of dollars to throw around
-Shannon, a guy with a white board and a lot of hockey jerseys
David crushes Goliath
I had actually forgot how messed up the Coyotes have been for such a long time. And since you didn't mention it during the last phase I had completely forgotten about the extremely bad pr of a hostile work environment and not paying bills etc. That's the current owner. Of course people would have serious doubts about them even making good on their promises due to their very recent bad press.
Sadly I think it has soured the market in Arizona considerably.
Whatever city gets the formally known as team is getting a pretty stacked prospect pool and a few established players. Better than an expansion team
Katie Strang's article in 2021 is really interesting to read to know how the organisation works now.
I disagree with Shannon when he says that he thinks they were acting in good faith with the Tempe project. They’re delinquent on paying vendors and municipalities.
@@tehbeernerd Yep, never trusted them after the article and they even tried going after her! Despicable.
As i recall scottsdale wanted the parking revenue at the los arcos site and was terminated. On that site is skysong a mixed use innovation center partnered with ASU housing 50+ companies and is today a major investment engine
If a team needs an absolutely perfect setup to basically break even after almost 30 years they were never gonna work in the first place
I remember in the 1960’s the Victoria Maple Leafs of the western league when the moved to Phoenix and that didn’t last long.
Man the 2012 playoffs was crazy, the building was packed over 100% easily with the whiteouts
There also was a tweet from Keller's dad too.
Moved to AZ when they started. Moved around since then yet they’re still my team.
ive been watching your boards for years now but wow... this one is... vg
Shannon, could you do a video of which teams reside in ownership owned buildings and which ones lease/rent a building that's used for concerts, conventions and what have you?
Excellent idea. I would thoroughly enjoy that.
It can still work!
I think going to SLC is the best move for the franchise and then doing expansion in Quebec City and Houston
excellent summation shannon as usual,it has been a 26 year money losing pipe dream compliments of gary bettman! any buziness man in his right mind would stay away from this club send them to hamilton or quebec we have lots of fans up here and we have ice and snow not a sandy desert!
Yeah, the ice and snow explain the empty seats at the Senators playoff games back in 2017.
@@penguinsfan251 you must be the new gm of hockey operations in Pittsburgh since they cleaned house at the end of a terrible season👺
Come on San Antonio Yotes!!
Oh!!
The best and most stable ownership the Coyotes have had was the NHL. They made the playoffs three straight years and reached WCF in 2012.
Going to Glendale was a massive mistake and helped kill the Coyotes. Geographically it's a PIA to get there from Mesa, Scottsdale and Gilbert, where your most likely hockey fans are. Sure people drive out there for the Cardinals but you can't compare any sport to football.
As an az resident I’m sad. Az sports needs some love
This is going to be a quabec/ colorado type of relocation. Once they move they make a cup run a lot of young stars on the team and in the system
Given how Reinsdorf runs the Bulls and White Sox, I'm not sure it would have turned out differently if he was owner.
At America West, they wanted to remodel so it there would no longer be ‘obstructed view’ seats. The Suns - Jerry Colangelo was ok with that but would not let them in on the Arena’s ad and concession revenue.
The Hockey Guy should relocate to Vancouver, WA
The Vegas Golden Knights are what the NHL wants the Arizona Coyotes to be. The NHL hit the jackpot with at least one team from the desert.
Yes, by learning from previous expansion failures. Bad ownership combined with a terrible player pool will kill many a team. One of the few things in recent years the NHL has done right were the expansion drafts allowing for a semi or very competitive team to be constructed from the off.
The talk surrounding hockey in Arizona is kind of frustrating for me to listen to. I'm not a Coyotes fan, I'm a Red Wings fan. But I feel almost like I'm judged with all other Arizonans when I hear people talk about the lack of fans or simply ridicule the idea of hockey in the desert. The idea of a "traditional market" doesn't make much sense to me. I get where it comes from. Obviously in a hotter climate, hockey probably won't be as popular. But a major sport is a major sport. People will pay to see it if it's entertaining. The arena was full when they were in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks the team couldn't make money probably doesn't understand how big Phoenix is. Glendale and Tempe are part of Phoenix. It's all one massive city. It could support this team if things just went right for a little while. And all of the fans of other teams, who are diehard hockey fans like in any other city, would be able to go to those games too.
There has been so much instability with this team and it is a miracle that they have been in Arizona for so many years. The Phoenix market is certainly big enough, but the people have voted and it doesn't sound like the Coyotes will exist too much longer and it is a shame.
It's not so much a miracle the Coyotes stayed, so much it's that Bettman and the NHL owners needed a team in the South West region to secure a massively lucrative billion dollar nationwide TV contract from the likes of ESPN etc that they were willing to take relative short term losses.
Now with the tv contract in place and a more successful South West region team anchoring in Las Vegas the whole reason the Coyotes were allowed to exist is gone.
This Tempe arena project failing was the last attempt at making good on the Coyotes. Now they can move without losing face and leave the market unburnt for a future expansion team by claiming it was arena issues that made the team fail, not anything else
@@renegadeleader1 You made a very good point about the NHL wanting a team in the South West because of a billion dollar tv contract and I did not realize that at first, but it makes sense. I actually really liked the renderings I saw online of the Coyotes' proposed Tempe Area and surrounding development plan, but it will never come to fruition now, unfortunately.
The ownership changing hand so many times probably didn't help either. No stability of ownership and not paying bills made it easy for Tempe residents to at least be hesitant of the arena.
I know it's a fair way out of Phoenix but I'm just throwing stuff out there. Would Tucson work? It still baffles me that Glendale was too far out of downtown Phoenix. It's still in the Phoenix metro area.
Tucson is, at minimum, two hours away from the Phoenix metro. The good news is that Tuscon peeps LOVE the Roadrunners.
Is there anything as a fan we can do to help keep our franchise or any support group suggestions for losing your favorite sports franchise?
I lived in the valley for 4 years during college and my uncle was season ticket holder for many years. The sight lines at America West were awful but the location of the stadium was primo. We lived in Chandler and getting out to Glendale after the move was such a pain in the ass. I don’t live in AZ anymore but the thought of the Coyotes moving to the east valley was very intriguing. I was disappointed to hear that the city voted no. I’d just like people who always cry to move the team to know I think hockey can work in the desert and that even though I don’t live there anymore, Coyotes fans do exist.
My thoughts on the Yotes:
1. Move the team to either Houston or Kansas City
2. The next round of NHL Expansion sees Quebec and the city that didn’t get the Coyotes get a team.
3. Current Coyote owner sells Team to facilitate move, with the understanding he needs to secure a building for when the NHL expands from 34 to 36 teams.
4. NHL second expansion sees Arizona return to the NHL alongside a second Greater Toronto Area team.
Arizona has been the biggest failure in league history. Why would they go back?
Screw further expansion
@@ElmerFudd16 this has been Bettman’s baby for 25 years. If they leave you damn well he will do whatever he can to get a team back there. Maybe having an arena already in place and a brand new history to make it could work
@@MrBlazemaster525 sadly like it or not the NHL is going to hit 40 teams at some point, and maybe even more. I’d like to see the NHL sit at 32 for at least 10 years before expanding
@@purewrestlingfansite lol like it or not it ain't happening 😂😂😂😂 if the NFL won't go past 32 the NHL has no leg to stand on going past 32
Playing Like Ghosts