POS ump at the LSU UC Irvine game was not even looking at the play when he calls LSU out on a hidden ball play.... If you don't see the play you don't make the call
I love the hidden ball trick. My team actually did it several times during a scrimmage in practice. Twice I got my teammates with the hidden ball trick successfully.
@jefft022 youre right the pitcher cant take the rubber without the ball, but you cant do a hidden ball trick unless the pitcher is off the mound completely. so yeah, if you stay on the bag till the pitcher is on the rubber youll be fine
@StinksOnIce22 It's not a balk here because the pitcher is on the grass. The key to it NOT being a balk is that the pitch not be on the mound at all. If the pitcher is even standing on the edge of the mound clearly not on the rubber it's still considered a balk.
As an umpire, this call just makes me sick. It actually pisses me off. There are 3 other umps on the field and they are all oblivious to the ball. 1st rule of umpiring is NEVER EVER take your eye off the ball. No umpire is perfect, but in the field they MUST be. I try to give myself 3 to 4 pitches per game behind the place where I am off, but wow! No conference or anything. This is just horrible crew action.
@StinksOnIce22 You might want to watch the video again. The pitcher wasn't on the mound. Keep in mind, that in Little League, high school, and pro rules the pitcher can be on the mound.
The hidden ball trick is one of the toughest to call--the umpire was caught off guard just like the runner was. It was a split-second call, and the umpire doesn't have instant replay. If nothing else, always know where the ball is. The umpire should have been watching the second baseman like a hawk.
i was umping triple A in 2007 and one of the teams used the hidden ball trick, a very shifty trick. but to be honest, there is nothing you can do if you are the victim, just dont let it shake you.
I really wish someone would post the video where you can see the ref clearly looking in the opposite direction while the play happens. That really was a pitiful call.
He wasn't fooled though. That's why he got back in time. However when runners are taught to lead off, they are told never to lead off until the pitcher steps on the rubber. If they do this they will never happen to you since it would be a bulk.
he wasnt on the dirt. he was off if u check it out. so no balk. so it comes down to the tag. OMGITSANOREO was right in saying that the second baseman sold it. The umpire should have been watching where the ball was, but much like the rest of the field, he didnt know where it was! its called the HIDDEN ball trick. good play and unfortunately the runner was safe, but called out. thats baseball for ya.
The definition of the mound varies in rulebooks, and often gets changed every couple of years. I'm an umpire for little league and in our rulebook the mound is defined as the rubber and a one foot in diameter circle as judged by the umpire. So from what I saw, that should not have been called a balk. However, he was safe and the umpire should have been watching; what else does the middle infield umpire need to watch?
Sure the umpires can change their call. Heres how it works, if an umpire is 100% certain in his call, he will not solicit help. if he has doubt, he will. Typical example is a throw that pulls firstbaseman off the bag. Maybe a possible swipe tag, or pulled foot. The umpire tries to adjust the best he can, but because the way the play develops/finishes, may not have the ideal view. So he makes a call. If one team argues, the umpire MAY go for help, if he feels he may have been blocked, etc..
@jefft022 yea good point, i got so any people as a pitcher with the ball in my hand an threw it to the 2nd baseman or center fielder and have been on the recieving end of a pick off move when the runner wasnt even paying attention
umps usually dont overrule each other unless he was 100% certain the incorrect call was made. now the 2nd base ump wasnt even looking at the play and how can he make a call...he should've been reprimanded for this.
I have a hard time believing the home plate umpire didn't see the play. He was looking right at second base when it went down. I'm guessing the coach appealed and he was shot down. Isn't that why they have an appeal to another umpire in the books?
It's all about looking like you got the man out. Like they said "they sold it" if you look like you did it right then you'll get the call. Nothing wrong with that.
He was safe, but...if you never take a lead until the pitcher is on the rubber, you will never be a victim of the hidden ball. The pitcher cannot take the rubber without the ball.
the runner should be safe and awarded third base because the pitcher without the ball can not be on the mound(or any dirt part) this is intent to deceive the runner which results in a balk being called and if he wasnt on the mound then the ump cant make a call if he doesnt see it
you never take your lead until the picther is on the mound, period. especially if the hidden ball trick has hapened earlier in the tournament!! but these old umpires need to wake up and pay attention, i dont think they have the attention span of a younger umpire.
@jefft022 Technically speaking he can't even touch the mound...I've been called for a balk when i just walked around the edge. If I was that coach I would've pulled out the rule book and shoved it right in that umps face.
What the infielder did was low...but only to a point. The spirit of the game would dictate that we wouldn't do such a thing...to "sell" a play to the umpire when the runner was obviously safe. However, the age old rule in baseball when taking a lead-off is fundamental: NEVER leave the bag unless the pitcher is on the mound/on the pitching rubber. (exception is a granted time out from the base umpire) There wouldn't have been a problem if the runner would've abided by that rule. Bad call.
that was not close at all. he was way safe. and what's the point of replay. i mean they have a 40 foot screen in center field that couldn't make the play mor obvious. just look at that screen.
it's kind of a dilemma, if baseball should review every play like this. obviously if every play is reviewed, there would be less arguments, but if every close play was reviewed then it could potentially make the games go on forever as if they aren't long enough
i have two things. at what point is it so obvious that the umpire didnt see the play? i dont think its ever clear. second, a team at this level should never fall for that. i realize he was safe but it wasn't as obvious as it should have been. he had no business being of the bag.
The pitcher has to be in the stretch with his foot OFF of the mound, people usually keep their foot behind the plate so it looks like they are ready to throw but that is when the holding player does his thing :)
Not supposed to call time after a play is over. Calling time after every play, the game would be even longer. Just because they dont call time, doesnt mean the umps are favoring. Thats just fans perception. Coaches and players at this level are smart enough to know that. Yes the umpires miss calls, but not because of favoritism. We are instructed to keep the game moving. Call time only in certain situations. What, are umps supposed to call time so the SS can throw the ball back to the pitcher?
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not a balk...he is off the mound
Give the umpire a break, who would expect a little league play like that in the CWS?
baseball needs replays like this...
NEVER take the lead until the pitcher is in the rubber
I love the hidden ball trick. My team actually did it several times during a scrimmage in practice. Twice I got my teammates with the hidden ball trick successfully.
@jefft022 youre right the pitcher cant take the rubber without the ball, but you cant do a hidden ball trick unless the pitcher is off the mound completely. so yeah, if you stay on the bag till the pitcher is on the rubber youll be fine
@StinksOnIce22
It's not a balk here because the pitcher is on the grass. The key to it NOT being a balk is that the pitch not be on the mound at all. If the pitcher is even standing on the edge of the mound clearly not on the rubber it's still considered a balk.
@StinksOnIce22 clearly he's behind the mound, not a balk... a blown call, yes, but not a balk.
Pitcher puts his foot on rubber...you take lead.
I was 5 when I learned that. Good sell by UCI.
One of many blown calls in the series. I sure am glad the Bayou Bengals whooped UCI's ass in the final game!
As an umpire, this call just makes me sick. It actually pisses me off. There are 3 other umps on the field and they are all oblivious to the ball. 1st rule of umpiring is NEVER EVER take your eye off the ball.
No umpire is perfect, but in the field they MUST be. I try to give myself 3 to 4 pitches per game behind the place where I am off, but wow!
No conference or anything. This is just horrible crew action.
he was safe, what umpire made the call is the question i would like to know
@StinksOnIce22 the pitcher was not on the mound. He was on the grass behind the dirt circle.
@StinksOnIce22 You might want to watch the video again. The pitcher wasn't on the mound. Keep in mind, that in Little League, high school, and pro rules the pitcher can be on the mound.
@StinksOnIce22 He was in the grass so it was legal coaches always say take your lead when he steps onto the rubber
@MrRCOLA ...the pitcher can't be on the dirt period without the ball. If he is, it's a balk.
@StinksOnIce22 Just saw this one - you might look at the replay again, the pitcher had not toed the rubber, he wasn't even on the mound.
he was safe
that ump really likes uc irvine
@StinksOnIce22 u can see that the pitcher is still on the dirt so it cant be a balk yet
wow definitely safe
You can clearly see that the pitcher was no where near the rubber. He was standing on the back side of the mound!
The hidden ball trick is one of the toughest to call--the umpire was caught off guard just like the runner was. It was a split-second call, and the umpire doesn't have instant replay. If nothing else, always know where the ball is. The umpire should have been watching the second baseman like a hawk.
He is safe,his foot is on the bag before the tag is aplied.
@jefft022 correction- the pitcher cant be on the dirt of the mound without the ball
i was umping triple A in 2007 and one of the teams used the hidden ball trick, a very shifty trick. but to be honest, there is nothing you can do if you are the victim, just dont let it shake you.
I really wish someone would post the video where you can see the ref clearly looking in the opposite direction while the play happens. That really was a pitiful call.
@StinksOnIce22 actually balk mean when the pitcher takes the mound even with the ball and steps off. its balk
thats bullshit, the umpire was to busy focusing on what he would be eating for his 14th mid afternoon snack
Who's the ump? Jim Joyce?
He wasn't fooled though. That's why he got back in time. However when runners are taught to lead off, they are told never to lead off until the pitcher steps on the rubber. If they do this they will never happen to you since it would be a bulk.
That was the second time in the SAME tournament.
he wasnt on the dirt. he was off if u check it out. so no balk. so it comes down to the tag. OMGITSANOREO was right in saying that the second baseman sold it. The umpire should have been watching where the ball was, but much like the rest of the field, he didnt know where it was! its called the HIDDEN ball trick. good play and unfortunately the runner was safe, but called out. thats baseball for ya.
Dude ... SCOTT GORGEN (UC Irvine pitcher) ... kid's with the Cards now. Great kid.
So's his twin brother, Matt, who's with the Rays.
Even if DJ was out the ump wasnt even looking at the play..he turned around and the kid playing second base sold it to the ump
The definition of the mound varies in rulebooks, and often gets changed every couple of years. I'm an umpire for little league and in our rulebook the mound is defined as the rubber and a one foot in diameter circle as judged by the umpire. So from what I saw, that should not have been called a balk. However, he was safe and the umpire should have been watching; what else does the middle infield umpire need to watch?
@StinksOnIce22 THe pitcher isn't on the mound.
I agree, he wasnt on the dirt. I think he got back, Bad call but just the way it goes.
DJ LMahieu is a great baseball player...played against him multiple times
@StinksOnIce22 he wasnt on the mound...
He was safe. He got to the base before the glove touched his hip.
Not a fan of LSU or the SEC, but that was a bad call.
ON the other hand, in 6 run game, it is hard to blame the loss just on that.
Sure the umpires can change their call. Heres how it works, if an umpire is 100% certain in his call, he will not solicit help. if he has doubt, he will. Typical example is a throw that pulls firstbaseman off the bag. Maybe a possible swipe tag, or pulled foot. The umpire tries to adjust the best he can, but because the way the play develops/finishes, may not have the ideal view. So he makes a call. If one team argues, the umpire MAY go for help, if he feels he may have been blocked, etc..
Clearly he was safe that was pathetic
at :52 he is clearly safe
But in this situation he was actually safe. That's why it shook them so bad.
you should know that anyway, but even if you don't they mention that it's not a balk in the video
safee
Uhh...safe by a freaking mile, I would say.
they should do instant replay
Time wasn't called before the trick.
@jefft022 yea good point, i got so any people as a pitcher with the ball in my hand an threw it to the 2nd baseman or center fielder and have been on the recieving end of a pick off move when the runner wasnt even paying attention
umps usually dont overrule each other unless he was 100% certain the incorrect call was made. now the 2nd base ump wasnt even looking at the play and how can he make a call...he should've been reprimanded for this.
He was on the mound. His feet were on the dirt. It's a balk in H.S. Like I said, I don't do NCAA.
Doesn't matter. His foot was on before the tag.
I have a hard time believing the home plate umpire didn't see the play. He was looking right at second base when it went down. I'm guessing the coach appealed and he was shot down. Isn't that why they have an appeal to another umpire in the books?
this is why baseball needs replay
Not sure about the NCAA rule, but in H.S., that's a balk. And the runner was obviously safe.
what call, ump wasn't looking! Great sell tho by UCI!
ur right but they got the pleasure of blowing calls and not giving a shit
It's all about looking like you got the man out. Like they said "they sold it" if you look like you did it right then you'll get the call. Nothing wrong with that.
He was safe, but...if you never take a lead until the pitcher is on the rubber, you will never be a victim of the hidden ball. The pitcher cannot take the rubber without the ball.
the runner should be safe and awarded third base because the pitcher without the ball can not be on the mound(or any dirt part) this is intent to deceive the runner which results in a balk being called and if he wasnt on the mound then the ump cant make a call if he doesnt see it
you never take your lead until the picther is on the mound, period. especially if the hidden ball trick has hapened earlier in the tournament!! but these old umpires need to wake up and pay attention, i dont think they have the attention span of a younger umpire.
@usteeler81 the human element is part of the game, hence the saying, "thats baseball"
@StinksOnIce22 he didnt he was standing BEHIND the mound
I'm surprised some umpires do not get attacked, lol
im a umpire aswell and i guess the ump waiting too long on the play so he let the players sold em the play ..... suck to be him dough ...
That's dirty
It shouldn't have been that close. It is the runner's fault.
THAT WAS SAFE
never ever ever leave a base before a bitcher gets to the mound
thats why
He was safe
Yeah, he was Safe.
everybody is wrong it is a balk if you get on the mound without the ball not the rubber, believe me evryteam i have been on made that mistake.....
@jefft022 Technically speaking he can't even touch the mound...I've been called for a balk when i just walked around the edge. If I was that coach I would've pulled out the rule book and shoved it right in that umps face.
What the infielder did was low...but only to a point. The spirit of the game would dictate that we wouldn't do such a thing...to "sell" a play to the umpire when the runner was obviously safe. However, the age old rule in baseball when taking a lead-off is fundamental: NEVER leave the bag unless the pitcher is on the mound/on the pitching rubber. (exception is a granted time out from the base umpire)
There wouldn't have been a problem if the runner would've abided by that rule. Bad call.
@StinksOnIce22 . . . no balk, pitcher is clearly on the grass off the mound.
nice
that was not close at all. he was way safe. and what's the point of replay. i mean they have a 40 foot screen in center field that couldn't make the play mor obvious. just look at that screen.
it's kind of a dilemma, if baseball should review every play like this. obviously if every play is reviewed, there would be less arguments, but if every close play was reviewed then it could potentially make the games go on forever as if they aren't long enough
for real
@MarinesSemperFi100 he was safe, but i wouldnt call it a mile.
i have two things. at what point is it so obvious that the umpire didnt see the play? i dont think its ever clear. second, a team at this level should never fall for that. i realize he was safe but it wasn't as obvious as it should have been. he had no business being of the bag.
The second base umpire got picked off. hahaha
It happens.
safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the person at fault here is the player who celebrated when he didnt get the man out. that was low.
2:12 looks like fenway park
@redverter umm no its the mound in every league haha i play in the ncaa
The pitcher has to be in the stretch with his foot OFF of the mound, people usually keep their foot behind the plate so it looks like they are ready to throw but that is when the holding player does his thing :)
Not supposed to call time after a play is over. Calling time after every play, the game would be even longer. Just because they dont call time, doesnt mean the umps are favoring. Thats just fans perception. Coaches and players at this level are smart enough to know that. Yes the umpires miss calls, but not because of favoritism. We are instructed to keep the game moving. Call time only in certain situations. What, are umps supposed to call time so the SS can throw the ball back to the pitcher?
SAFE!!!!
@dave0mary ok but you guys possibly decide who wins. You would rather lose a game because off ur own mistake that an umpires mistake.
umps love to think when in doubt call him out its such garbage
safe
lol bad umps can change a game but you know what, baseball will always have these kinds of plays until there are no umpires
Horrible call. It wasn't close. Evidently the umpire wasn't paying attention either. Absolutely horrendous call.
Irvine isn't the cheaters here. They tried to do something that has been done many times. The fault lies on the umpires for totally blowing the call.
SAFE
stupid umpire he was safe