Every time I see a "what the Force Awakens or the sequel trilogy could have been" video, I get kind of angry. Thanks for helping me start my day off right.
I agree that EP 7-9 should have continued the Skywalker saga, but I also wish that Finn's character arc had been more central to the story. A lot of great potential was wasted imo.
Yeah! Isn't he really Kyle Katarn in the same way the Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is Darth Caedus? He should've blowing up Imperial Dreadnaughts by pointing his finger like a gun and saying "Pew"
I always felt Finn could’ve been the main character. Having a stormtrooper defect from the Order was a interesting arc and I think they didn’t flesh it out enough
I think the biggest failure of the Sequel Trilogy is that it wasn't about anything beyond Star Wars itself. Lucas drew on the Vietnam War, but he was also pulling from Joseph Campbell and Samurai films and theological studies. I didn't need the Disney films to be trying to do all of that, but some degree of awareness in where these stories come from and what they're leaving behind would've, I dunno, left me with some impression. Thankfully, Andor came along.
@@kdusel1991 So I've heard but I couldn't get into it.i wasn't interested in a prequel to a prequel. Only watched the pilot and wasn't compelled to see more.
These nostalgia-bait cash grabs need to stop. If it's a story worth telling, by all means, go for it. Unfortunately, this sequel trilogy was a huge waste of potential. Skeptical that Disney actually learned their lesson.
Badly, as they did with the prequels. Cinema history revisionism made him a great filmmaker and also made the prequels better than they are, not actual filmmaking skills
I have nothing against Daisy Ridley as Rey, but I actually thought Poe Dameron and Finn were the more interesting characters and should have been the lead
Agreed, and they totally could've still had Rey be a cool character, but shift the focus slightly, cause a STORMTROOPER becoming a JEDI is fucking new and exciting. We've already had a space orphan become a Jedi twice, we wanted something new, and thought we would get something new when that trailer dropped. I wasn't disappointed with TFA, and I actually enjoyed elements of TLJ, but boy do I fucking hate TROS...
Maul being a prominent villain in the sequels could've been cool, but Kenobi being the one to slain him on Tattooine was a far better idea. I feel like what they could've done is have an Inquisitor that was groomed to replace Vader once he killed Luke, but since Luke saved Vader and Vader killed Palpatine, that Inquisitor had a burning hatred towards Luke for ruining his destiny, which would lead to him adopting force sensitive orphans into his cult, and eventually manipulate Ben into betraying Luke, burning down the temple and joining his cult. I mean they had the blueprint there with the Knights of Ren, and Snoke.
It's such a shame that each of the sequels was rushed out and not given the proper time to plan. They had so many talented people involved but just didn't have the time to work together to make a satisfying narrative
Great video! I love that you really did your research on the original George Lucas treatments, even getting Thea and Skylar’s names right, and the basic plot of 7 with Talon corrupting the Solo kid. You summed up the info from Paul Duncan’s interview with Lucas and The Art of Force Awakens book, pretty well. Pablo Hidalgo has also released some additional info on the original plans if anyone’s interested, but they’re scattered across tweets and one of his books.
VERY close to the original quote from the Tolkein's Legendarium. The quote goes, “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”
The concept of Leia's true parentage being outed to the galaxy would be used for the Bloodline novel which released as a sort of prequel to The Force Awakens. Absolutely fantastic book. I highly recommend it along with any other Star Wars books written by Claudia Gray.
@@Fuzhou nah, Return of the Jedi was still a good conclusion. It's a shame we didn't end up getting Wookies instead of Ewoks though, that would've been cool, and made Chewbacca a bit more important to the story.
Yes, I weep for the poor man who sold his IP willingly for billions of dollars. You cry babies act like he was held at gun point lol he doesn't give a shit about Star Wars he wanted MONEY
Ick, I really enjoy Force Awakens, but this sounds spectacular. I really wish they would have went with more of Lucas's ideas and let him have more say. Especially having ONE PERSON write the whole trilogy 😂. The biggest issue with the Sequels was that they had no continuous through line.
@@jasonelliott7977 Agree. They went with a repeat nostalgic kick. If they had done something new then it still would have made 2 billion, but if they actually had a plan for three then those might have made 2 billion each and helped pay Disney back for spending too much on Lucasfilm.
The sequel trilogy is the biggest missed opportunity in movie history. The prequels were pretty bad but to mess up the Star Wars sequel trilogy is unforgivable. Getting Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher back and to not give them a scene together is criminal. There is literally nothing Disney can now do to fix it. The Last Jedi killed the golden goose and there's no way to fix it. If they had got it right Disney could have released a billion dollar film every 5 or 6 years. Now it's just a series of terrible Disney+ shows.
I love how the writer had such confidence in Rey that he was terrified to include an older Luke, speaks volumes of how bad Rey was set up to be hollow.
Originally fans believed almost anyone could open themselves to the Force like Luke. Then it became an inheritance thing. In Harry Potter, there are some witches and wizards who are Muggle-born (have non-magical parents). But apparently J.K.R. said they had a squib in their ancestry that allowed the "magic gene" to be passed down. Personally I think it's more likely that wizards used their powers to "take advantage" of non-magical women, creating these Muggle-borns.
It's a shame to an extent, because I love well-done "Pass The Torch" stories, like Bruce to Terry in Batman Beyond, or Peter to Miles in Into The Spider-Verse. Better characterisation could have made Rey a better and likable character.
@@sandal_thong8631 I actually like what they did with Luke! I didn't like that he was a bit of an asshole at first, but his idea of having the Jedi end was fascinating.
I never had a problem with Luke being a failed, cowardly asshole if they would have actually executed the idea better. Actually featuring Luke in Episode 7 and seeing his failure that led to his exile. Then having him come to his senses halfway through Episode 8 to rejoin the battle to either perish in Episode 9 or ride off into the sunset leaving the Jedi Order in someone else's hands to rebuild.
Georges Sequel Trilogy was very similar to the Legacy comics, and also breaks the canon of Legacy of the Force/ Hand of the Jedi. It's very safe to say George was definitly planning on decanonising at least a lot of the EU
He was already doing that constantly. The prequels did it. The Clone Wars did it. He was always very clear about the EU not being his Star Wars. The EU was it's own tier of canon.
I feel like the sequel trilogy is what exposed the "mystery box" style for what it really was, smoke and mirrors. It's great up until the point you actually have to execute on all the intrigue, only to find the box is empty, or worse someone left a big curling steamer. It works great in a single contained story where the answer doesn't really matter to the overall plot, because all it actually does is give the impression of a deeper story, the moment you actually need to have something of substance there is the moment it all falls apart.
I like to call it "a mystery without the worldbuilding to let people build to theoretical answers". Theories in fandoms exist for a reason. Because there's enough material guiding an audience to make their own conclusions in a story. Looking in the gaming medium, Souls games are built on being incredibly vague, but offer enough worldbuilding for people to make headcanons. You can't do that with the "mystery box" setup because you didn't plan for answers.
If he had escaped alive the end of _The Phantom Menace,_ then Obi-Wan would have been obsessed with hunting him down in the next movie, risking the dark side of the Force corrupting him. But bringing him back from the dead because of fans, is stupid.
Eh. I think his character arc in The Clone Wars and conclusion in Rebels is one of the more well-received stories of the modern age amongst fans and critics. I think they made the right choice on that front.
12:16 the story for Lucas' Underworld show sounds so awesome someone did a deep dive into it and it sounded so cool would've been amazing I just know it, could've taken the series to a new level! 😊
Finn & Rey should've became Jedi *together* and grew from having strong bonds of friendship between each other, to being a couple that finds the strength to over come anything standing in their way due to the deep bonds of love they had for each other. Both of them as jedi would've brought a lot to the table in terms of where the story could've gone and the challenges and issues they could've faced and over came together. And it would've been something that we've never seen in the movies before, Finn would've been Rey's Obi Wan-Kenobi to her Anakin Skywalker, but we didn't get that.😔 In short, we were robbed of a wholesome relationship between these two, and of seeing a black jedi being one of the co leads in a Star Wars trilogy and I'll never forgive Disney for it.
Leia becoming supreme chancellor would’ve been so freaking poetic. It’s like when Padme lost hope “democracy dies quote” but peace would be properly restored through Leia, Padme’s literal daughter.
It sounds like the biggest issue was that it needed that extra year in the oven so they could plan filling in those gaps and smoothing out the many wrinkles. Instead, it turned into "Let's make this up as we go along" because someone wanted their paycheck immediately. I understand taking Maul off the table. I think it was a mistake merging Ben Solo/Darth Talon into one character, as even after he killed Snoke, nobody was convinced he could be the main villain after already losing to Rey (and I still can't understand why he turned to the Dark Side in the first place). It would've become a love triangle situation over which woman could literally seduce him more, but that would've worked better than him suddenly turning back because of Leia dying when he clearly doubled down on killing her in the previous movie. The other massive mistake was cutting Luke off from the Force. Him isolating himself to train the Jedi in secret and dying only after his task was done makes a lot more sense and would've been worth not seeing him in the first movie.
I like the idea that Luke had a sister (not Leia) that was hidden somewhere in the galaxy, perhaps watched over by a failed Jedi, similar to how Obi-Wan watched over Luke. And that if Luke had failed in _The Empire Strikes Back_ or _Return of the Jedi,_ Yoda would have sent for her to be trained. Of course after the Soviet Union dissolved, there were ideas for what might have happened after the Empire was left without the Emperor, like what happened in Yugoslavia, and eventually in Russia itself. Until _Revenge of the Sith,_ there was always the chance that Luke was wrong, and Obi-Wan just let him believe Leia was his sister. "Leia is my sister!" "Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor." Or Obi-Wan slept with Padme too, so the twin sister was Obi-Wan's daughter!
Watching this and the other BTS stuff ive read about the production on TFA and the other two movies, its very obviously that there were too many cooks in the kitchen, no one really being on the same page, and trying to make tight deadlines to meet a 2015 release date.
@kaboose111 I was under the impression that it was the other way around. There are interviews where he mentioned telling Johnson that he disagreed with his treatment for the character. And it's not about figure fights. The problem is that Johnson tried to deconstruct the character without building up to that state.
@@RaulMéndez-s9n And in those same interviews he goes on to say that he ended up liking those decisions. No buildup? Do you need everything spoonfed to you?
The more you hear about the different iterations of the sequel trilogy it becomes more obvious that they were always bound to be hated. There's a long list of things that are easy to imagine fans hating. It's also amazing how many things that people did end up hating in the final product were George's original ideas anyways. lol
"Every time Luke entered the movie he basically took it over, and [the audience] didn't care about Rey anymore." Crazy thought, but maybe, just maybe, that should have been taken as an indicator of where the focus of the story ought to have been, rather than an inconvenience that needed to be overcome so the audience's attention could be forced onto a less interesting character. But hey, what do I know? I'm not in charge of a billion dollar movie studio; I would have done things like mapping out the entire trilogy before I started shooting, and making damn sure my still very popular legacy characters shared at least a few scenes together before I killed them off. But like I said, what do I know? I'm sure the people who've been making films all their adult lives would know better than me.
I’m sorry Mark Hamill was right. Star Wars already had a perfect ending. All this stuff sounds like fan fiction and ridiculous. You can tell Lucas and Disney were grasping at straws on how to keep the story going.
Yeah to be fair, a lot of us loved The Force Awakens when it came out, even if I was aware of the similarities with A New Hope, but if the story ended in Episode 7, then maybe I wouldn't mind, just saying.
3:00 What is the source of this information? The fact that it was Lucas' idea specifically. Lucas himself talked about how in his version Luke would establish a New Jedi Order.
The way they wasted the character of Luke was the biggest mistake made in the sequels. You had one of the greatest heroic characters in movie history and decided to exclude him almost entirely from Episode VII and then emasculated and killed him in VIII.
I don’t hate the sequels like most do, but the sequels are a lesson in writing being fundamental. Each movie felt different than the other and I felt like they were juggling ideas which gave us a half inspired trilogy that just feel like 3 years in the greater Star Wars galaxy. However we got some cool characters and moments so I’m not all the way mad like most people. I just hope they have a solid plan before chasing box office & toy sales next time around
Jeez. Most of these ideas are FAR superior than the crapfest we got. When I originally heard about this film being made, I was really hoping for a "Let's get the band back together" storyline, where the original gang have to find each other to help Han and Leia's kids and their associates defeat the villians. We never even got one scene with Luke, Han and Leia together. .. let alone one including them with Lando, Chewbacca, C3P0 and R2D2. I did like the FIN character. Rey could have been a bit more badass though. And somehow... Palpitine returned!
I think the plan Lucas sent off initially sounded better. The Underworld show sounded great, but too expensive to do on his own. Armchair quarterback me says, more time to figure stuff out and long term figure out that ROI.
The biggest shock from me after watching this video is just how miniscule Finn's role ended up being ever since his conception. I mean, come on! A former Stormtrooper who discovers the Force and becomes a Jedi and starts his own resistance comprised of other former Stormtroopers? There's your new movie, if not Sequel Trilogy, right there! What a waste of a character and especially a waste of John Boyega! Also, why hasn't the Warhammer been a thing yet. The good guys get their own super weapon for once and they never use it? Biggest fumble if you ask me.
“The Force Awakens” is a great movie, despite its ending being too similar to “A New Hope”. Their obsession with giant globes that shoot lasers is ridiculous… This trilogy had so much potential, that’s why it’s such a disappointment. Is it too hard to have an unified vision? Yes, a movie should stand on its own, but if the plan was to make a story arch, why not have, at least, an overall plot locked in for the whole trilogy BEFORE making the second and the third one? Maybe it comes down to the people in charge thinking: “it’s Star Wars, people will show up to watch it anyway, why worry about consistency?”. Guess the track record isn’t in the franchise’s favor, since the original trilogy had similar issues, with one movie being completely different from the other and major plot points being changed between installments. Rey, Finn, Poe (and even Kylo Ren) are such good characters, wasted by a messy production.
It's the least trilogiest trilogy that every trilogied. Episode 7 is just a fan tribute film. Episode 8 is the first movie in a new trilogy. Episode 9 is like the Q&A panel at comic con where they just wrap up lose ends to a canceled tv show.
Reconstruction would've been a much better political setting. Bands of Imperial holdouts attacking anywhere, anytime -- lots of potential for tension. That said... looks like a lot of bad ideas were in the mix long before JJ got involved.
I'm not a writer at all, let me be clear from the start, but I don't feel any of these plans for The Force Awakens felt super interesting besides the idea of dealing with the chaos of a lawless, post-empire galaxy. The problem with the sequel trilogy from the start was that there wasn't a clear vision to follow. It didn't feel like there was a need for these stories to exist or add interesting worldbuilding in the first place. Several directors were sought after with the hope they could pitch together something cohesive and salvage the plans. JJ Abrahams just wanted to create a mystery that he was never going to answer (his biggest drawback as a writer is that his worldbuilding is nonexistent and too reliant on the audience), and Ryan Johnson just wanted to do his own thing. I feel like the writing was on the wall regarding how an existent fanbase was going to feel about the whole ordeal. And it's kinda why I stay away from the IP and fanbase in general. They spend most of their time talking about something they hate.
They only got the easy part right in bringing back the warm fuzzies of seeing less complicated black-and-white style conflict along with nostalgic character appearances. The little original material they had was undercooked and clearly angling to be saved down the line, and we saw what ended up happening when nostalgia alone could not longer carry things and they had to try and write new stuff: we ended up finding out there was never a properly formatted plan beyond the nostalgia key-jingle of the first film.
I was approaching 8 years old when the Force Awakens came out, and seeing it as my very first Star Wars movie, it was a hell of a time, also got me invested into the franchise. That is, until the Acolyte series made my investment miserable. 😭 But suddenly, that recent Lego Star Wars series called Rebuild the Galaxy helped bring my Star Wars experience to a fitting conclusion. S’all gone to me. (Until Andor season 2 and the Mandalorian movie comes out)
I knew the franchise was in trouble the moment a Stormtrooper(who apparently suffered PTSD from seeing his buddies getting killed), to jailbreaking the very dude who wasted them, only to join sides and murder dozens more of his colleagues in a Tie Fighter, while high fiving a complete stranger who left him for dead in a barren desert??? Brilliant writing 😂
It was Harrison Ford that wanted Han killed off in JEDI not the director *Richard Marquand* because he wanted a permanent out of the series due to fan annoyance. And it was in his agreement that they kill him off in AWAKENS in order to get him to agree to it (no idea about the othre INDY movie < great idea for a plot, terrible execution)
after hearing Rey's initial character described as a 'hothead' i feel like Daisy Ridley was the wrong choice for casting that character. i never really saw her as that renegade kind of personality, in fact it seemed they gave that to Poe and to some extent even Finn. i'n sure a lot of it has to do with the writing but Daisy Ridley never seemed to nail down a fleshed out persona for her character. it seemed like the events of the movies were just coming at her rather than her being a meaningfully developed character with her own motivations, hopes and dreams
The plot reminds me a lot of the Thrawn trilogy with Grand Admiral Thrawn uniting the fractions of the Empire and using unconventional methods to combat the Republic.
The Force Awakens as it is stands as a good movie, a bit of a rehash but that's ok to get new fans. HOWEVER, everything for this trilogy mentioned up till 3:30 is perfect 🔥 it's still got a bit of what TFA is with some actual new ideas. And the plans for Skylar is so much better than what we got with Ren
I appreciate how clearly this sets the record on the development and the forces that came up with certain divisive plot beats. TFA being a retro remake style threw me so hard because I thought there was something wrong with me not liking it more. I'm a TLJ apologist and think that's closest to a SW that GL would have made. TROS is just worst of all worlds. What could have been though I imagine the original plan could have been messy in a different way but I'll always appreciate GL looking at SW as carte blanche to just experiment and push whats possible things. The glories of sole ownership
So they worked on a script for months and months and had input from numerous accomplished directors including Steven Spielberg...and "this" was the best they could come up with. Right. Star Wars should not be that hard to do, especially when they had 2,000 expanded universe books, comics, cartoons and video games to draw from. Fans just wanted to see the New Republic and New Jedi Order but one was hampered and the other was wiped out. Also, didn't Lucas want to do something about the origin of the Force in the sequel series?
8:34 I saw an Instagram post that of the concept art of Jakku by artist Erik Tiemens, that Jakku was originally supposed to be a planet full of junk rather than a desert planet. 8:54 wasn’t there concept art from Michael Arndt of Maaz giving the lightsaber to the envisioned white Finn? 10:05 Finn’s Duel against Kylo Ren is better than Rey’s Duel. 10:51 Because Rian Johnson say I don’t want to rehash the Vader and Palpatine relationship. Yet Rian Johnson rehashed the end of Vader and Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. 10:56 It was explore better in the Bloodline boom, comics and Star Wars Resistance cartoon. Which I do like. I have no shame. I like Star Wars Resistance cartoon. 11:30 Shame The Last Jedi wasted Phasma. Phasma would have a Bigger role, If DJ Never existed. I read Phasma comic by Kelly Thompson. It would be better if Phasma remain in her Bounty Hunter disguise, so she tricks Finn into going to the first order just to Sabotage him. It would fit perfectly for there Whomp Hog delete scene. But no Rian Johnson say he has a big cast, so he gave Phasma no big role and he said the reason he brought back Phasma because he solely want to hangout with Gwendoline Christie. As I writer myself, I am insulted. 11:39 They should let Luke to be Connected to The Force. 11:50 Guess Lucas doesn’t appreciate Finn, his character arc and the concept that he and other children are taken away from their families are forces to become Child Soldiers. At least that is something to worth be different from New Hope. Finn is main reason why Force Awakens is different from New Hope. Even though Pirates and tentacles alien are different, but they’re just filler. Shame it is all wasted in the next movie. And movie after, that because of Rush production. You left out Episode 7 original plans/ Concept of Force Ghost Anakin by Iain McCaig. As Anakin flows back and forth between himself and Darth Vader. As a character with dark and light side of the Force. That concept was use in Ahsoka show though.
Kennedy, Abrams & Johnson should be exiled to Antarctica, never to be seen or heard from again. There are no words for the damage that was done. They ruined something beautiful.
I don't like Po dying b/c Oscar Isaac is That Dude. Harrison Ford did die, even though he also is That Dude, but it made sense b/c Adam Driver is _also_ That Dude, and the Ben Solo thing worked. Other than that, any of these ideas would've been better
Every time I see a "what the Force Awakens or the sequel trilogy could have been" video, I get kind of angry. Thanks for helping me start my day off right.
Hahaha
@@Bulletsandblockbusters can you do the original plan but we could’ve been Power Rangers 2017
I agree that EP 7-9 should have continued the Skywalker saga, but I also wish that Finn's character arc had been more central to the story. A lot of great potential was wasted imo.
Yeah! Isn't he really Kyle Katarn in the same way the Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is Darth Caedus? He should've blowing up Imperial Dreadnaughts by pointing his finger like a gun and saying "Pew"
I always felt Finn could’ve been the main character. Having a stormtrooper defect from the Order was a interesting arc and I think they didn’t flesh it out enough
@@Leonardo-oq2qf agree 👍
I think the biggest failure of the Sequel Trilogy is that it wasn't about anything beyond Star Wars itself. Lucas drew on the Vietnam War, but he was also pulling from Joseph Campbell and Samurai films and theological studies. I didn't need the Disney films to be trying to do all of that, but some degree of awareness in where these stories come from and what they're leaving behind would've, I dunno, left me with some impression.
Thankfully, Andor came along.
And Mandalorian understood this, too. It was like a spaghetti western.
@@MrM-u3h Andor is a masterpiece and Mando's pretty good too
@@kdusel1991 So I've heard but I couldn't get into it.i wasn't interested in a prequel to a prequel. Only watched the pilot and wasn't compelled to see more.
@@MrM-u3h First two seasons did. But then Grogu became popular and had to insist on bringing back the mechanic.
These nostalgia-bait cash grabs need to stop. If it's a story worth telling, by all means, go for it. Unfortunately, this sequel trilogy was a huge waste of potential. Skeptical that Disney actually learned their lesson.
Nostalgia is a strong drug
And Disney became the biggest dealer of all
They got addicted to it, too. Never get high on your own supply
They gave everyone a bad trip with TLJ.
Indeed they did, and now they're struggling with selling Star Wars to the general audience because they're running out of nostalgia bait.
@@4fingazAnd don't understimate the other one's greed
If Poe died in force awakens then we’d never get the gem of a line that is: “somehow Palpatine returned.”
A small price to pay for salvation
It was originally written as " dudes back."
They fly now
he almost rolled his eyes when he said that 😂
Something, something dark side
I've always wondered about how will people react if Lucas continued with his plans. Great vid as always.
Tbh I actually think the Sequels would've been polarizing from the start and likely doomed from the beginning
People would hate him again.
Badly, as they did with the prequels. Cinema history revisionism made him a great filmmaker and also made the prequels better than they are, not actual filmmaking skills
Yeah, bad as the sequels are to my generation, -the Emperor's- Lucas's ideas aren't much better.
@@alexdamaceno"Not actual filmmaking skills", ever seen his independent shorts, or even THX-1138 or American Graffiti?
I have nothing against Daisy Ridley as Rey, but I actually thought Poe Dameron and Finn were the more interesting characters and should have been the lead
I feel bad for Daisy Ridley. She seems like a nice person, has always been kind to people, and got so absolutely SHAFTED at every turn
Agreed. The idea of a storm trooper becoming force sensitive and defecting is a way more interesting story than another space orphan finding themself.
@@rachelknightonlineit’s because Star Wars fans are toxic and don’t know how to separate reality from fiction.
Agreed, and they totally could've still had Rey be a cool character, but shift the focus slightly, cause a STORMTROOPER becoming a JEDI is fucking new and exciting. We've already had a space orphan become a Jedi twice, we wanted something new, and thought we would get something new when that trailer dropped.
I wasn't disappointed with TFA, and I actually enjoyed elements of TLJ, but boy do I fucking hate TROS...
@@willrunriotI agree 100%. So disappointed
Maul being a prominent villain in the sequels could've been cool, but Kenobi being the one to slain him on Tattooine was a far better idea. I feel like what they could've done is have an Inquisitor that was groomed to replace Vader once he killed Luke, but since Luke saved Vader and Vader killed Palpatine, that Inquisitor had a burning hatred towards Luke for ruining his destiny, which would lead to him adopting force sensitive orphans into his cult, and eventually manipulate Ben into betraying Luke, burning down the temple and joining his cult. I mean they had the blueprint there with the Knights of Ren, and Snoke.
I always thought that the flashbacks should've been part of the main story
The more we learn about the sequel trilogy, the more we realize Disney REALLY didn’t think it through.
It's such a shame that each of the sequels was rushed out and not given the proper time to plan. They had so many talented people involved but just didn't have the time to work together to make a satisfying narrative
Great video! I love that you really did your research on the original George Lucas treatments, even getting Thea and Skylar’s names right, and the basic plot of 7 with Talon corrupting the Solo kid.
You summed up the info from Paul Duncan’s interview with Lucas and The Art of Force Awakens book, pretty well.
Pablo Hidalgo has also released some additional info on the original plans if anyone’s interested, but they’re scattered across tweets and one of his books.
Bullets and Blockbusters still carrying
"Evil cannot create anything new. It can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made."
- JRR Tolkien (I think)
Yall are so fucking dramatic with this shit
VERY close to the original quote from the Tolkein's Legendarium. The quote goes, “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”
The concept of Leia's true parentage being outed to the galaxy would be used for the Bloodline novel which released as a sort of prequel to The Force Awakens. Absolutely fantastic book. I highly recommend it along with any other Star Wars books written by Claudia Gray.
The biggest misstake Lucas did was selling he's life work to Disney and having Kathleen Kennedy in charge of it.
That didn’t happen during Return of the Jedi. That’s the biggest mistake Lucas did.
@@Fuzhou nah, Return of the Jedi was still a good conclusion. It's a shame we didn't end up getting Wookies instead of Ewoks though, that would've been cool, and made Chewbacca a bit more important to the story.
Exactly!!!! That’s what I’m saying!!!
Yes, I weep for the poor man who sold his IP willingly for billions of dollars.
You cry babies act like he was held at gun point lol he doesn't give a shit about Star Wars he wanted MONEY
@@AbridgimationI think they didn't end up using wookies it's because they couldn't hire a lot of tall actors at the time.
Ick, I really enjoy Force Awakens, but this sounds spectacular. I really wish they would have went with more of Lucas's ideas and let him have more say. Especially having ONE PERSON write the whole trilogy 😂. The biggest issue with the Sequels was that they had no continuous through line.
They didn’t have the story fully fleshed out for the trilogy and that’s why it feels disjointed.
@@jasonelliott7977 Agree. They went with a repeat nostalgic kick. If they had done something new then it still would have made 2 billion, but if they actually had a plan for three then those might have made 2 billion each and helped pay Disney back for spending too much on Lucasfilm.
J. J. Abrahms and Lawrece Kasdan wrote some treatments for Episode 8, they included Luke having a wife in the exile.
The sequel trilogy is the biggest missed opportunity in movie history. The prequels were pretty bad but to mess up the Star Wars sequel trilogy is unforgivable. Getting Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher back and to not give them a scene together is criminal. There is literally nothing Disney can now do to fix it. The Last Jedi killed the golden goose and there's no way to fix it. If they had got it right Disney could have released a billion dollar film every 5 or 6 years. Now it's just a series of terrible Disney+ shows.
🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣
I love how the writer had such confidence in Rey that he was terrified to include an older Luke, speaks volumes of how bad Rey was set up to be hollow.
Originally fans believed almost anyone could open themselves to the Force like Luke. Then it became an inheritance thing.
In Harry Potter, there are some witches and wizards who are Muggle-born (have non-magical parents). But apparently J.K.R. said they had a squib in their ancestry that allowed the "magic gene" to be passed down. Personally I think it's more likely that wizards used their powers to "take advantage" of non-magical women, creating these Muggle-borns.
It's a shame to an extent, because I love well-done "Pass The Torch" stories, like Bruce to Terry in Batman Beyond, or Peter to Miles in Into The Spider-Verse. Better characterisation could have made Rey a better and likable character.
@@leithaziz2716 Not setting her up to be a copy of Luke could have done wonders.
@@sandal_thong8631 I actually like what they did with Luke! I didn't like that he was a bit of an asshole at first, but his idea of having the Jedi end was fascinating.
@@JoeChillton Not setting her up to be Palpatine's granddaughter would be even better.
I never had a problem with Luke being a failed, cowardly asshole if they would have actually executed the idea better. Actually featuring Luke in Episode 7 and seeing his failure that led to his exile. Then having him come to his senses halfway through Episode 8 to rejoin the battle to either perish in Episode 9 or ride off into the sunset leaving the Jedi Order in someone else's hands to rebuild.
nah they gotta humiliate every male character and replace them with strong independent wahmen
Georges Sequel Trilogy was very similar to the Legacy comics, and also breaks the canon of Legacy of the Force/ Hand of the Jedi. It's very safe to say George was definitly planning on decanonising at least a lot of the EU
He was already doing that constantly. The prequels did it. The Clone Wars did it. He was always very clear about the EU not being his Star Wars. The EU was it's own tier of canon.
I feel like the sequel trilogy is what exposed the "mystery box" style for what it really was, smoke and mirrors. It's great up until the point you actually have to execute on all the intrigue, only to find the box is empty, or worse someone left a big curling steamer. It works great in a single contained story where the answer doesn't really matter to the overall plot, because all it actually does is give the impression of a deeper story, the moment you actually need to have something of substance there is the moment it all falls apart.
Well said.
I like to call it "a mystery without the worldbuilding to let people build to theoretical answers".
Theories in fandoms exist for a reason. Because there's enough material guiding an audience to make their own conclusions in a story.
Looking in the gaming medium, Souls games are built on being incredibly vague, but offer enough worldbuilding for people to make headcanons. You can't do that with the "mystery box" setup because you didn't plan for answers.
"let's rush a script to make money for the shareholders as soon as possible" isn't a great way to start a movie.
Love your videos. Please do more of movies from the 90s
I am glad we didn't get Maul. I am so over seeing all these recurring characters.
Having Maul be the big bad of the sequel trilogy would have been epic!!!
If he had escaped alive the end of _The Phantom Menace,_ then Obi-Wan would have been obsessed with hunting him down in the next movie, risking the dark side of the Force corrupting him. But bringing him back from the dead because of fans, is stupid.
Eh.
I think his character arc in The Clone Wars and conclusion in Rebels is one of the more well-received stories of the modern age amongst fans and critics. I think they made the right choice on that front.
12:16 the story for Lucas' Underworld show sounds so awesome someone did a deep dive into it and it sounded so cool would've been amazing I just know it, could've taken the series to a new level! 😊
In their first battle, Rey CLOSES HER EYES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE... for MULTIPLE seconds...and this is supposed to be the new Chosen one?
I wish George never gave Lucasfilm to Disney
The trilogy could have been good if Disney chose to use George Lucas’ story treatments with Lawrence Kasdan writing the scripts for them
Nah. They're not much better than Disney's versions.
THIS, just rewrites here and there, if The Force Awakens ended up being somewhat "decent", I think it's because of Kasdan's writing.
Once again, the original vision sounds so much better than what we actually got!
Finn & Rey should've became Jedi *together* and grew from having strong bonds of friendship between each other, to being a couple that finds the strength to over come anything standing in their way due to the deep bonds of love they had for each other.
Both of them as jedi would've brought a lot to the table in terms of where the story could've gone and the challenges and issues they could've faced and over came together. And it would've been something that we've never seen in the movies before, Finn would've been Rey's Obi Wan-Kenobi to her Anakin Skywalker, but we didn't get that.😔
In short, we were robbed of a wholesome relationship between these two, and of seeing a black jedi being one of the co leads in a Star Wars trilogy and I'll never forgive Disney for it.
Leia becoming supreme chancellor would’ve been so freaking poetic. It’s like when Padme lost hope “democracy dies quote” but peace would be properly restored through Leia, Padme’s literal daughter.
Luke going into exile wasn’t the problem. It was the writing and how it was handled is what irritated many
It sounds like the biggest issue was that it needed that extra year in the oven so they could plan filling in those gaps and smoothing out the many wrinkles. Instead, it turned into "Let's make this up as we go along" because someone wanted their paycheck immediately.
I understand taking Maul off the table. I think it was a mistake merging Ben Solo/Darth Talon into one character, as even after he killed Snoke, nobody was convinced he could be the main villain after already losing to Rey (and I still can't understand why he turned to the Dark Side in the first place). It would've become a love triangle situation over which woman could literally seduce him more, but that would've worked better than him suddenly turning back because of Leia dying when he clearly doubled down on killing her in the previous movie.
The other massive mistake was cutting Luke off from the Force. Him isolating himself to train the Jedi in secret and dying only after his task was done makes a lot more sense and would've been worth not seeing him in the first movie.
I like the idea that Luke had a sister (not Leia) that was hidden somewhere in the galaxy, perhaps watched over by a failed Jedi, similar to how Obi-Wan watched over Luke. And that if Luke had failed in _The Empire Strikes Back_ or _Return of the Jedi,_ Yoda would have sent for her to be trained. Of course after the Soviet Union dissolved, there were ideas for what might have happened after the Empire was left without the Emperor, like what happened in Yugoslavia, and eventually in Russia itself.
Until _Revenge of the Sith,_ there was always the chance that Luke was wrong, and Obi-Wan just let him believe Leia was his sister.
"Leia is my sister!"
"Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."
Or Obi-Wan slept with Padme too, so the twin sister was Obi-Wan's daughter!
Lucas made a deal with the devil and then got upset when the devil betrayed him.
Watching this and the other BTS stuff ive read about the production on TFA and the other two movies, its very obviously that there were too many cooks in the kitchen, no one really being on the same page, and trying to make tight deadlines to meet a 2015 release date.
I kinda feel bad for Hamill. He wanted to give Luke a proper send off, but it seems that everyone else on board wanted to f*** up the character.
You know Hamill liked Luke's treatment in Episode 8, right? I'm sorry you didn't get your cool action figure fights.
@kaboose111 I was under the impression that it was the other way around. There are interviews where he mentioned telling Johnson that he disagreed with his treatment for the character. And it's not about figure fights. The problem is that Johnson tried to deconstruct the character without building up to that state.
@@RaulMéndez-s9n And in those same interviews he goes on to say that he ended up liking those decisions.
No buildup? Do you need everything spoonfed to you?
@@kaboose111that’s a complete lie
@@kaboose111absolutely false
The more you hear about the different iterations of the sequel trilogy it becomes more obvious that they were always bound to be hated. There's a long list of things that are easy to imagine fans hating. It's also amazing how many things that people did end up hating in the final product were George's original ideas anyways. lol
"Every time Luke entered the movie he basically took it over, and [the audience] didn't care about Rey anymore." Crazy thought, but maybe, just maybe, that should have been taken as an indicator of where the focus of the story ought to have been, rather than an inconvenience that needed to be overcome so the audience's attention could be forced onto a less interesting character. But hey, what do I know? I'm not in charge of a billion dollar movie studio; I would have done things like mapping out the entire trilogy before I started shooting, and making damn sure my still very popular legacy characters shared at least a few scenes together before I killed them off. But like I said, what do I know? I'm sure the people who've been making films all their adult lives would know better than me.
I like The Force Awakens we got, but seeing Darth Maul & Darth Talon in a big-screen movie again would have been wicked dope... maybe someday
I’m sorry Mark Hamill was right. Star Wars already had a perfect ending. All this stuff sounds like fan fiction and ridiculous. You can tell Lucas and Disney were grasping at straws on how to keep the story going.
Many original ideas sound much better than what we've got!
The Force Awakens is my favorite Star Wars movie which makes 8 & 9 even more puzzling for me with how bad they are.
Yeah to be fair, a lot of us loved The Force Awakens when it came out, even if I was aware of the similarities with A New Hope, but if the story ended in Episode 7, then maybe I wouldn't mind, just saying.
3:00 What is the source of this information? The fact that it was Lucas' idea specifically. Lucas himself talked about how in his version Luke would establish a New Jedi Order.
The way they wasted the character of Luke was the biggest mistake made in the sequels. You had one of the greatest heroic characters in movie history and decided to exclude him almost entirely from Episode VII and then emasculated and killed him in VIII.
it impossible to not feel like disney just botched everything
I don’t hate the sequels like most do, but the sequels are a lesson in writing being fundamental. Each movie felt different than the other and I felt like they were juggling ideas which gave us a half inspired trilogy that just feel like 3 years in the greater Star Wars galaxy. However we got some cool characters and moments so I’m not all the way mad like most people. I just hope they have a solid plan before chasing box office & toy sales next time around
Michael Fassbender And Hugo Weaving Were Both Considered For The Role Of Kylo Ren Before Adam Driver Was Cast
They honestly don't fit! They'd fit better as villains
@@kdusel1991 I think they were considered for Hux. Which physically and voice, I can see that.
If only they gave a fuck about what they were doing…
Jeez. Most of these ideas are FAR superior than the crapfest we got. When I originally heard about this film being made, I was really hoping for a "Let's get the band back together" storyline, where the original gang have to find each other to help Han and Leia's kids and their associates defeat the villians. We never even got one scene with Luke, Han and Leia together. .. let alone one including them with Lando, Chewbacca, C3P0 and R2D2. I did like the FIN character. Rey could have been a bit more badass though. And somehow... Palpitine returned!
Nothing against daisy ridley but finn had so much wasted potential. It would've been so much better if he teamed up with Poe instead of Rose.
I think the plan Lucas sent off initially sounded better. The Underworld show sounded great, but too expensive to do on his own.
Armchair quarterback me says, more time to figure stuff out and long term figure out that ROI.
The biggest shock from me after watching this video is just how miniscule Finn's role ended up being ever since his conception.
I mean, come on! A former Stormtrooper who discovers the Force and becomes a Jedi and starts his own resistance comprised of other former Stormtroopers? There's your new movie, if not Sequel Trilogy, right there! What a waste of a character and especially a waste of John Boyega!
Also, why hasn't the Warhammer been a thing yet. The good guys get their own super weapon for once and they never use it? Biggest fumble if you ask me.
I got the impression that he didn't know his parentage, so that could have been the second movie: both going to look for their parents.
“The Force Awakens” is a great movie, despite its ending being too similar to “A New Hope”.
Their obsession with giant globes that shoot lasers is ridiculous… This trilogy had so much potential, that’s why it’s such a disappointment. Is it too hard to have an unified vision? Yes, a movie should stand on its own, but if the plan was to make a story arch, why not have, at least, an overall plot locked in for the whole trilogy BEFORE making the second and the third one?
Maybe it comes down to the people in charge thinking: “it’s Star Wars, people will show up to watch it anyway, why worry about consistency?”. Guess the track record isn’t in the franchise’s favor, since the original trilogy had similar issues, with one movie being completely different from the other and major plot points being changed between installments.
Rey, Finn, Poe (and even Kylo Ren) are such good characters, wasted by a messy production.
What Could Have Been Kong: Skull Island.
7:28 we might get that in Final Reckoning with a theory is Rabbit's Foot is the digital Entity in Dead Reckoning.
Interesting timing with the fact that the force awakens teaser turned 10 years old two days ago.
0:42 It’s been downhill since this decision was made
LOVE STAR WARS AND MCU VIDEOS !!!
It's the least trilogiest trilogy that every trilogied.
Episode 7 is just a fan tribute film.
Episode 8 is the first movie in a new trilogy.
Episode 9 is like the Q&A panel at comic con where they just wrap up lose ends to a canceled tv show.
Original plans for Spider-Man no way home plzz
have you done a video on episode 4??
Not yet
Hearing Lucas’s plans it really makes me realize how epic the new trilogy could have been. 😢
Not showing Kylos turn to the darkside was a BIG MISTAKE
Not Enough was shown in TLJ to rectify the problem
New episode 🍻 On this Beautiful Saturday
This is great 😎
Reconstruction would've been a much better political setting. Bands of Imperial holdouts attacking anywhere, anytime -- lots of potential for tension. That said... looks like a lot of bad ideas were in the mix long before JJ got involved.
I'm not a writer at all, let me be clear from the start, but I don't feel any of these plans for The Force Awakens felt super interesting besides the idea of dealing with the chaos of a lawless, post-empire galaxy.
The problem with the sequel trilogy from the start was that there wasn't a clear vision to follow. It didn't feel like there was a need for these stories to exist or add interesting worldbuilding in the first place. Several directors were sought after with the hope they could pitch together something cohesive and salvage the plans.
JJ Abrahams just wanted to create a mystery that he was never going to answer (his biggest drawback as a writer is that his worldbuilding is nonexistent and too reliant on the audience), and Ryan Johnson just wanted to do his own thing. I feel like the writing was on the wall regarding how an existent fanbase was going to feel about the whole ordeal. And it's kinda why I stay away from the IP and fanbase in general. They spend most of their time talking about something they hate.
They only got the easy part right in bringing back the warm fuzzies of seeing less complicated black-and-white style conflict along with nostalgic character appearances. The little original material they had was undercooked and clearly angling to be saved down the line, and we saw what ended up happening when nostalgia alone could not longer carry things and they had to try and write new stuff: we ended up finding out there was never a properly formatted plan beyond the nostalgia key-jingle of the first film.
It’s a damn shame what they did to the Star Wars movies.
Disney: "Let's do the Lucas' version, but poorly."
Thanks for the amazing video ❤️
Imagine being early and not pretending you're in a race "first, second, third"
I was approaching 8 years old when the Force Awakens came out, and seeing it as my very first Star Wars movie, it was a hell of a time, also got me invested into the franchise. That is, until the Acolyte series made my investment miserable. 😭
But suddenly, that recent Lego Star Wars series called Rebuild the Galaxy helped bring my Star Wars experience to a fitting conclusion. S’all gone to me.
(Until Andor season 2 and the Mandalorian movie comes out)
Instead of the prequels, Lucas should have adapted Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.
Yes!
No
Could you do a video on the 24 Die Hard crossover
Great idea
The force awakens went from an original movie to just a rehash of a new hope... pain.
Disney had opportunity after opportunity to make the sequels right, so much source material and they blew it.
Man, if only Jon Favreau had done the trilogy from the jump. JJ was a bad choice
The moment fans will regret forever is at 1:47.
James McAvoy, Chiwetel Ejiofor And Miles Teller Were All Considered For The Role Of Poe Dameron Before Oscar Issac Was Cast
Love all three, definitely would have love to see them in Star Wars.
I think Christian Slater could’ve played him in the 90’s!
I knew the franchise was in trouble the moment a Stormtrooper(who apparently suffered PTSD from seeing his buddies getting killed), to jailbreaking the very dude who wasted them, only to join sides and murder dozens more of his colleagues in a Tie Fighter, while high fiving a complete stranger who left him for dead in a barren desert??? Brilliant writing 😂
It was Harrison Ford that wanted Han killed off in JEDI not the director *Richard Marquand* because he wanted a permanent out of the series due to fan annoyance. And it was in his agreement that they kill him off in AWAKENS in order to get him to agree to it (no idea about the othre INDY movie < great idea for a plot, terrible execution)
after hearing Rey's initial character described as a 'hothead' i feel like Daisy Ridley was the wrong choice for casting that character. i never really saw her as that renegade kind of personality, in fact it seemed they gave that to Poe and to some extent even Finn. i'n sure a lot of it has to do with the writing but Daisy Ridley never seemed to nail down a fleshed out persona for her character. it seemed like the events of the movies were just coming at her rather than her being a meaningfully developed character with her own motivations, hopes and dreams
If they were going to cast a Brit, it would have to be someone from Northern England or a Scottish actor. She's too posh sounding for that role
4:43 wow, how right he was
The plot reminds me a lot of the Thrawn trilogy with Grand Admiral Thrawn uniting the fractions of the Empire and using unconventional methods to combat the Republic.
The Force Awakens as it is stands as a good movie, a bit of a rehash but that's ok to get new fans.
HOWEVER, everything for this trilogy mentioned up till 3:30 is perfect 🔥 it's still got a bit of what TFA is with some actual new ideas. And the plans for Skylar is so much better than what we got with Ren
cutting off luke from the film was a stupid idea. they shouldve just used lucas has a creative consultant and used his treatments.
HAPPY TURKEY-DAY BOSS_MAN! hope the family and you had a beautiful day. RESPECT! NOW LFG LOL COFFEES READY
You too! Happy Thanksgiving brother
I appreciate how clearly this sets the record on the development and the forces that came up with certain divisive plot beats. TFA being a retro remake style threw me so hard because I thought there was something wrong with me not liking it more. I'm a TLJ apologist and think that's closest to a SW that GL would have made. TROS is just worst of all worlds. What could have been though I imagine the original plan could have been messy in a different way but I'll always appreciate GL looking at SW as carte blanche to just experiment and push whats possible things. The glories of sole ownership
So they worked on a script for months and months and had input from numerous accomplished directors including Steven Spielberg...and "this" was the best they could come up with. Right.
Star Wars should not be that hard to do, especially when they had 2,000 expanded universe books, comics, cartoons and video games to draw from. Fans just wanted to see the New Republic and New Jedi Order but one was hampered and the other was wiped out.
Also, didn't Lucas want to do something about the origin of the Force in the sequel series?
8:34 I saw an Instagram post that of the concept art of Jakku by artist Erik Tiemens, that Jakku was originally supposed to be a planet full of junk rather than a desert planet.
8:54 wasn’t there concept art from Michael Arndt of Maaz giving the lightsaber to the envisioned white Finn?
10:05 Finn’s Duel against Kylo Ren is better than Rey’s Duel.
10:51 Because Rian Johnson say I don’t want to rehash the Vader and Palpatine relationship. Yet Rian Johnson rehashed the end of Vader and Palpatine in Return of the Jedi.
10:56 It was explore better in the Bloodline boom, comics and Star Wars Resistance cartoon. Which I do like. I have no shame. I like Star Wars Resistance cartoon.
11:30 Shame The Last Jedi wasted Phasma. Phasma would have a Bigger role, If DJ Never existed. I read Phasma comic by Kelly Thompson. It would be better if Phasma remain in her Bounty Hunter disguise, so she tricks Finn into going to the first order just to Sabotage him.
It would fit perfectly for there Whomp Hog delete scene.
But no Rian Johnson say he has a big cast, so he gave Phasma no big role and he said the reason he brought back Phasma because he solely want to hangout with Gwendoline Christie.
As I writer myself, I am insulted.
11:39 They should let Luke to be Connected to The Force.
11:50 Guess Lucas doesn’t appreciate Finn, his character arc and the concept that he and other children are taken away from their families are forces to become Child Soldiers. At least that is something to worth be different from New Hope.
Finn is main reason why Force Awakens is different from New Hope.
Even though Pirates and tentacles alien are different, but they’re just filler.
Shame it is all wasted in the next movie. And movie after, that because of Rush production.
You left out Episode 7 original plans/ Concept of Force Ghost Anakin by Iain McCaig. As Anakin flows back and forth between himself and Darth Vader. As a character with dark and light side of the Force.
That concept was use in Ahsoka show though.
The Mystery Box is so dumb.
Kennedy, Abrams & Johnson should be exiled to Antarctica, never to be seen or heard from again. There are no words for the damage that was done. They ruined something beautiful.
Everything that could've been, would've been better than we actually got. 😢
Wow we were robbed of Darth Talon on the big screen…nice
It would’ve been better to be more original over derivative
As the saying goes
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it
This may not have been as epic as the original trilogy, but it would have a lot been better than the hot steaming pile that Disney put out.
Are there plans to do one for the Last Jedi what could've been?
If JJs treatments leak
@@BulletsandblockbustersI thought JJ had nothing to do writing wise
I don't like Po dying b/c Oscar Isaac is That Dude. Harrison Ford did die, even though he also is That Dude, but it made sense b/c Adam Driver is _also_ That Dude, and the Ben Solo thing worked. Other than that, any of these ideas would've been better