Hi Tom & team, thank you for putting this series together. My partner and I are in the process of purchasing a smallholding in North Wales which has 13 acres of grazing land which we intend plant with trees. We are trying to do as much research as we can to figure out how we can do it in an effective way that will be resilient, bio-diverse and create as much habitat for nature as possible. It's a little overwhelming as newcomers. Your series is both informative and inspiring! Looking forward to seeing more. Rick
Thanks Rick, and good luck with your planting project. Our next film will be about sycamore seed selection and progeny trials with the Future Trees Trust. We hope to release it this month.
Producers note: We're reposting a comment that Rob Paton made on an earlier upload of this film: "There are also surprisingly efficient methods of integrating regular width “conventional” arable or grazed alleys between rows or belts of trees, keeps the big machinery boys and girls happy if they must carry on with annual crops AND putting trees into the agricultural landscape, rather than putting them around the edges. We have realigned all of our fields on-contour to capture and store rainfall. We have 28m grass alleys for sheep grazing and hay production between 7m wide tree belts, mainly comprising nut and fruit producing trees. See “Mark Shepard” Restoration agriculture for our inspiration! My concern with ELMS is that it will still force people to fit into certain boxes to qualify for support, letting anyone doing anything different fall between the cracks, no matter how environmentally good they are...
This video was quite insightful, although there were some statements I would take issue with in regards to certain policies like carbon taxes, although I do agree that the CAP has been a disaster for the countryside in general in the way that it has directed land use policy through grants and taxation, rather than market forces (I give you milk lakes and butter mountains, valuable food production land given over to energy crops to feed biodigesters etc.). I am a bit of a fan of agroforestry from a permaculture point of view although I studied and worked in forestry. From a biodiversity POV agroforestry creates a lot of boundary areas between one ecosystem type and another. These boundaries are often the most biodiversity areas and produce the habitats for a wider range of flora and fauna, although balance needs to be maintained artificially if you want to keep any crops. The very nature of increased biodiversity would suggest that we need a policy and incentives to encourage more people into the countryside who are prepared to work the land and add value to the bounty of produce available, balanced with the need to feed over 60 million people. I think we also need to re-evaluate the role of traditional economics over time. In my experience from a forestry (and neighbouring agriculture) point of view, although I haven’t been in the forestry game for over twenty years so it may have changed, was that it is very difficult to assign or achieve a monetary value to landscape and biodiversity when you have to meet annual budgets and are in competition with much cheaper imports from countries where resources and land are more plentiful and labour much cheaper or heavily subsidised. To get the most out of the available land, you would need to micro manage for multiple products to maximise your income, hence the need for more people to work and produce locally. The current model for arable agriculture in particular is becoming more based on big machines, chemicals and contract labour and monocultures to maximise the yield per hectare. Over the years I have seen the confusing impacts of grants and policy, in particular the CAP, which by its very nature is a more or less one size fits all policy, that has had us rip up hedgerows to create bigger fields for bigger, more expensive machines, and then replant those hedgerows, grants to fill in ponds and then grants dig new ones, draining uplands and then wondering why we have increased flooding downstream when we have heavy rainfall. Now we’ve got re-wilding, which sounds very quaint and lovely but which will eventually destroy any meaningful pastoral agriculture with the current and planned reintroduction and protection of top predators, with fisheries decimated by otters and mink and many red book vertebrates significantly predated on by the reintroduction of red kites etc. Goodness only knows what will happen if they want to introduce wolves and bears! Happy camping and hiking. I don’t think carbon taxes are an effective measure, they only really benefit big business and hedge funds (‘scuse the pun) and are very easily manipulated. A friend of mine had an uncle who had a successful business refurbishing domestic appliances. This firm was bought out by a large multinational who were awarded ‘green’ credits for investing in a ‘green’ company, they then liquidated the business and laid everyone off. I have seen local to me a reed bed ecosystem, managed by local Reed cutters for local thatching materials, taken over by the RSPB because of the wildfowl and other birds (reed warblers) it attracted, only for the ecosystem to go into decline as they kicked out the guys who worked the reed beds, as they became more overgrown, the early feeding grounds of the cut reed were no longer viable to support the populations of wild birds they had previously attracted. They eventually had to rely on contractors and volunteers to cut the reeds and burn them, while a friend of mine, who lived less than a mile away from the reed beds had his roof rethatched with imported thatching material from Poland. I know much of this is off the topic of agroforestry but the whole system of policy and change over the last fifty years or so has led to much confusion and discord, there are way too many armchair ‘environmentalists’ in positions of influence who have never made a living from the countryside and think that because they have a qualification in environmental management or whatever, they know what is best, and what is more disturbing is the promoted concept that humanity is a blight on the land, when in reality the British countryside and the biodiversity that promoted, has evolved over thousands of years of constant management by people who were much more in tune with the countryside. We now are in a position where farmers are paid not to farm (throughout Europe) and a looming energy crisis which will impact imports and food production at home and unless you want to live on farmed insects and other highly processed slop, in a national safari park only accessible by the very wealthy.
A guy working for a timber company talking about the environment? haha. "Hey, I work for a cigarette company. Let me talk about the importance of good health"
Chris Smaje ..one of the great wisdom keepers ..
It was a very interesting discussion, thanks for your comment.
Hi Tom & team, thank you for putting this series together. My partner and I are in the process of purchasing a smallholding in North Wales which has 13 acres of grazing land which we intend plant with trees. We are trying to do as much research as we can to figure out how we can do it in an effective way that will be resilient, bio-diverse and create as much habitat for nature as possible. It's a little overwhelming as newcomers. Your series is both informative and inspiring! Looking forward to seeing more. Rick
Thanks Rick, and good luck with your planting project. Our next film will be about sycamore seed selection and progeny trials with the Future Trees Trust. We hope to release it this month.
Hallow Mr Dennis.am.very.happy.to.lean more.about trees now kindly can you bring a nursury at kenya
.
Great conversation … agroforestry and edible gardens are the future ❤
Liar
Sorry for your advice 🙏 but it's not a good idea
@@eshaali8961 what's not a good idea?
Producers note: We're reposting a comment that Rob Paton made on an earlier upload of this film:
"There are also surprisingly efficient methods of integrating regular width “conventional” arable or grazed alleys between rows or belts of trees, keeps the big machinery boys and girls happy if they must carry on with annual crops AND putting trees into the agricultural landscape, rather than putting them around the edges. We have realigned all of our fields on-contour to capture and store rainfall. We have 28m grass alleys for sheep grazing and hay production between 7m wide tree belts, mainly comprising nut and fruit producing trees. See “Mark Shepard” Restoration agriculture for our inspiration!
My concern with ELMS is that it will still force people to fit into certain boxes to qualify for support, letting anyone doing anything different fall between the cracks, no matter how environmentally good they are...
This video was quite insightful, although there were some statements I would take issue with in regards to certain policies like carbon taxes, although I do agree that the CAP has been a disaster for the countryside in general in the way that it has directed land use policy through grants and taxation, rather than market forces (I give you milk lakes and butter mountains, valuable food production land given over to energy crops to feed biodigesters etc.). I am a bit of a fan of agroforestry from a permaculture point of view although I studied and worked in forestry. From a biodiversity POV agroforestry creates a lot of boundary areas between one ecosystem type and another. These boundaries are often the most biodiversity areas and produce the habitats for a wider range of flora and fauna, although balance needs to be maintained artificially if you want to keep any crops. The very nature of increased biodiversity would suggest that we need a policy and incentives to encourage more people into the countryside who are prepared to work the land and add value to the bounty of produce available, balanced with the need to feed over 60 million people. I think we also need to re-evaluate the role of traditional economics over time. In my experience from a forestry (and neighbouring agriculture) point of view, although I haven’t been in the forestry game for over twenty years so it may have changed, was that it is very difficult to assign or achieve a monetary value to landscape and biodiversity when you have to meet annual budgets and are in competition with much cheaper imports from countries where resources and land are more plentiful and labour much cheaper or heavily subsidised. To get the most out of the available land, you would need to micro manage for multiple products to maximise your income, hence the need for more people to work and produce locally. The current model for arable agriculture in particular is becoming more based on big machines, chemicals and contract labour and monocultures to maximise the yield per hectare. Over the years I have seen the confusing impacts of grants and policy, in particular the CAP, which by its very nature is a more or less one size fits all policy, that has had us rip up hedgerows to create bigger fields for bigger, more expensive machines, and then replant those hedgerows, grants to fill in ponds and then grants dig new ones, draining uplands and then wondering why we have increased flooding downstream when we have heavy rainfall. Now we’ve got re-wilding, which sounds very quaint and lovely but which will eventually destroy any meaningful pastoral agriculture with the current and planned reintroduction and protection of top predators, with fisheries decimated by otters and mink and many red book vertebrates significantly predated on by the reintroduction of red kites etc. Goodness only knows what will happen if they want to introduce wolves and bears! Happy camping and hiking.
I don’t think carbon taxes are an effective measure, they only really benefit big business and hedge funds (‘scuse the pun) and are very easily manipulated. A friend of mine had an uncle who had a successful business refurbishing domestic appliances. This firm was bought out by a large multinational who were awarded ‘green’ credits for investing in a ‘green’ company, they then liquidated the business and laid everyone off. I have seen local to me a reed bed ecosystem, managed by local Reed cutters for local thatching materials, taken over by the RSPB because of the wildfowl and other birds (reed warblers) it attracted, only for the ecosystem to go into decline as they kicked out the guys who worked the reed beds, as they became more overgrown, the early feeding grounds of the cut reed were no longer viable to support the populations of wild birds they had previously attracted. They eventually had to rely on contractors and volunteers to cut the reeds and burn them, while a friend of mine, who lived less than a mile away from the reed beds had his roof rethatched with imported thatching material from Poland.
I know much of this is off the topic of agroforestry but the whole system of policy and change over the last fifty years or so has led to much confusion and discord, there are way too many armchair ‘environmentalists’ in positions of influence who have never made a living from the countryside and think that because they have a qualification in environmental management or whatever, they know what is best, and what is more disturbing is the promoted concept that humanity is a blight on the land, when in reality the British countryside and the biodiversity that promoted, has evolved over thousands of years of constant management by people who were much more in tune with the countryside. We now are in a position where farmers are paid not to farm (throughout Europe) and a looming energy crisis which will impact imports and food production at home and unless you want to live on farmed insects and other highly processed slop, in a national safari park only accessible by the very wealthy.
Thank you for providing subtitles. Very helpful. Also found this an interesting podcast
Thanks for your feedback, glad you found it interesting.
Great video. Thank you.
Thanks!
Really interesting interview, thanks! Just found your channel, love it. subscribed!
❤❤😊😊
Inspiring
A guy working for a timber company talking about the environment? haha. "Hey, I work for a cigarette company. Let me talk about the importance of good health"
Very short sighted comment. People who own large timber companies are exactly the sort of people we need talking about the environment.
@@FiddlesticksWorkshop A very naive and ill thought comment.
@@michaelairley2015 i'm pleased you admit it. life is about learning isnt it.
@@FiddlesticksWorkshop Oh dear. You used all day for that comment. Your head is as empty as your Workshop
@@michaelairley2015 plant more trees