2023 Honda Civic Type R: Track Review | 4K
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Is the new £47,000 Honda Civic Type R really worth nearly £15,000 more than the previous generation Type R? Rory Reid and Alex Legouix take to the track to find out which is faster over a drag race and hot laps.
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I have had both cars. Bought the FK8 for £35,000 and sold it after over 2 years for £31,000.
In those two years the price of cars has gone up. Also the FL5 is now made in Japan and so also costs more due to that, taxes etc.
My FK8 I replaced the Conti's with PS4s. Certainly better at a standing start / comfort.
Here is what I think after 2 weeks with the FL5
Styling
I loved the FK8 styling. The wife hated it. I got loads of comments - people either loved it or hated it and used to tell me all the time. People always looked at you at lights and you would get people trying to race you all the time. The FK8 was a nightmare to wash with all the fake vents.
Now I have the FL5 I think I prefer the styling. Perhaps because Im in my 40s now but I like the fact that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb but it still looks amazing. Even more so than the pictures. I haven't had many people ask me about it though. Mostly only people that know about cars. With the FK8 people that didn't have a clue about cars would comment.
Interior
The Interior is a major difference with the FL5. There is no competition. The Infotainment system is night and day better. The FK8 used to crash all the time. The FL5 has not had a single error and Apple Wireless CarPlay is amazing. The wireless charger also actually works. The interior has a lot less rattles and feels a lot more solid. Any FK8 owner that closes the doors in an FL5 will notice straight away. Boot space is slightly smaller. Rear seat is far better with the materials and cup holders which was only a US option for the FK8. Digital dash is amazing especially in R Mode. And the front seats!! Wow.
Ride Quality
I thought that the two cars would be a lot closer in terms of ride quality but they are more different than I thought. The FL5 is better for day to day driving. It can handle the terrible UK roads and if you hit a pothole you don't feel like you have broken an Alloy wheel. During spirited driving the FK8 felt faster but when I look at the speedo on the FL5 it is going just as fast. I felt that the FK8 was crazier and felt like you were maybe more connected to the road. It is hard to be sure as I am still getting used to the FL5 and breaking it in but as it feels more comfortable so you don't feel like you are driving on the edge as much. The FL5 perhaps feels more responsive but I am not 100% sure.
Gear change and clutch are better on the FL5
In the end they are both fantastic cars. I was shocked at the price increase but the better build quality and infotainment system justified it for me.
I find I prefer the FL5 though but it is hard as its my new toy. Maybe give me 6 months (and a couple of repayments...yikes)
where are you and how much did new one cost? I noticed that the doors are more solid on new one around the windows where the old one could be pressed in easily(flimsy). On the seats the old ones on the bottom were too narrow so I modified them and now they look like the new one! On aero you can tell the new one much smoother.
@@jamesmedina2062 Im in the UK. Car cost £49,500 altogether but this included black paint (£695), Illumination kit £1,100, Servicing, Mats. My FK8 had terrible rattly windows. Fine when they were fully up or down but anything in between was awful. Still loved the car though.
Appreciate that comparison. I am on my 2nd FK8 and FL5 is very difficult to come by in BC Canada (at MSRP). I have my name down at a small local dealer and would like red. I felt the FK8 styling was wild but it drives so well and the styling has grown on me. I do hate washing it because it takes so long.
@@touringteg I think we talk ourselves into liking the 10th gen Civics but honestly they are off a bit. The Type R looks better of course than other except 2 door coupes look ok too. The FL5 will look better and wash easier. Its easier on the eyes but not the pocketbook!
@@r33mpc Any update sir? Curious about your thoughts on the FL5 after breaking it in.
Rory/Alex, great review thank you. Shame the Honda "incremental" philosophy wasn't also applied to the price!
well, all cars increased in price
@Gary woaw, what's up with the aggressiveness?
Of course car prices are going to increase. It's logical. But just do some maths. Last version was £32k new. This one is £47k new. That's about a 47% increase in price.
If you ACTUALLY read the original comment, he clearly knows the price should increase. But it would have been nice if it were an incremental increase.
A price increase of £15k clearly boots the car out of most people's price brackets. And very few people will be able to justify nearly £50k for a hatchback.
@Gary oh, so you cannot do simple currency conversions?🤣 Explains a lot about your reasoning and thought process.
£32000 (that is British pounds for you) equates to approximately $38000 (US dollars for you).
So yes, it was not $32000 (US dollars). I completely agree. But if you actually read my comment (like you should have read the original comment), I never said it was $32000 (US dollars). I said it was £32000 (British pounds).
Secondly, you are avoiding the argument that the car now costs 47% more than the previous generation. So for you, that means it will cost $18000 (US dollars) more.
Yes, the car is faster. But for £15000 (British pounds), or $18000 (US dollars), some people say it's not worth the extra money. That is yhe argument. It's not an incremental price increase. It launches the car into a different category of car.
You're the type of guy that the teachers had to tell that you're not supposed to eat paste.
Everything nowadays is more expensive than years ago.
The FK8 in the US was about $38K and this FL5 is now $44K.
What wasn't mentioned is that the new one has 5% longer gearing (actually +7%-2% smaller tire circumference), which is a disadvantage at a slower track, unless the number of upshifts differs. On the road, especially in Germany, a little less rpm and higher top speed is a good thing.
Longer gears make the car slower at all speeds so the extra power is likely negated, wheel torque is likely the same (no I'm not doing the maths lol)
@@stefanroseEP3 That's exactly how it feels: My FK8, fully run in, accelerates better above 200
Are we talking top speed or how long it takes to get to speed?
New one looks so damn good, especially that front 3/4s shot, grows on me every time.
You can notice how much more FL5 is bouncing around compared to FK8....rebound setting must have been way more stiff....
£15k more for the new one simply isn't worth it. The old one is out landish but It helps identify it in a sea of hot hatches and prefer the look. New one looks very bland imo. Interesting to see what happens when putting ps4s tyres on the old car
I think the new one is rocking the latest Pilot Sport 5 tyre. It’s great to see how just a difference in tyres can contribute to track times. Tyres are such an over looked item with most people out there.
It is worth it for the looks / interior upgrade alone. Then add a second of laptime and you're laughing.
These are selling for above rrp used, so it's free driving too.
The FK8 is a great buy and brilliant car, but the new one is better.
I think the old car is over styled i love the new simpler look
It’s hilarious that the old one was destroyed by the press regarding exterior styling especially the British media. Now it suddenly stands out? Lol
15k is a fair increase as the Fk8 was very underpriced there still 30k 5 years old 🤣
Both great cars, Fk8 is a beast in the flesh, Fl5 not so, but Fl5 looks slightly better from certain angles although not really a hatch.
Not keen on the screen sticking right in the way.
Phenomenal video; love the chemistry in the video too, well done both!
So basically, just get a FK8 and put better tires on it.
If you're just interested in lap times. Don't forget there have been many changes/improvements including most importantly better cooling. Much less juvenile styling as well
@@UmarTheGreat10 and who want oldman styling , to be nice and aggressive it has to be juvenile styling , have you ever seen an agressive car that doesnt look juvenile ?
@@cielo20 it's a matter of opinion I guess. The majority over the age of 35 or wtvr seem to prefer the more mature look. And to answer your question, many cars look agressive without looking juvenile. Porsches GT3s among others.
@@UmarTheGreat10 im 49 and prefer the fk2/8 aggressiveness but each to their own. dont tell me gt3 is any difference of aggressiveness than fk2/8 all 3 look like a track car the new fl5 doesnt.
@@cielo20 it looks agressive. But juvenile and agressive aren't the same thing lol
People don’t know what they want. When the FK8 debuted they complained that looked too ricey and now they released the FL5 which is good looking and they complain it’s too bland as if they were gonna buy it anyways.
Exactly
Totally true😮😮
There were other issues that you overlooked, such as the differences in terms of transmission and engine temperatures over several laps (and the same thing for brakes and tires). Other tests have suggested that cooling in the FK8 was a bit of a challenge over sustained track use. Nonetheless, job well done. Thank you for this entertaining review.
At first I didn't like the new Type R but it grew on me with the look! I actually like it a bit now!
I would still love the new type r but with the old type r wing. That's the coolest. But i still love the old one more😁
So pleased Alex is back on the block - makes a great team complete.
Fantastic video - thank you.
So ultimately 47k for 0.8 seconds advantage over the old car, its cheaper to buy a set of new tyres and wheels if you like plus modify the suspension and tune the engine and still have change.
Thats a tough sell
It's cheaper to buy many things and mod them to be faster but that's a pointless comparison.
The changes are more than just tyres, the conti 6s are great. It's beat the FK8 LE on Cup 2s around a track too.
@alsayedfakhri4597 but the point is the new car is 15k more expensive, is it 15k better? Personally give me 15k to spend on the older car and I'm sure it'll give you more than a second difference
Its not 15k more expensive its a thing called inflation, unless you've been asleep for 3 years, a base focus is 30k lol a M3/4 is over 100k a can of coke is 1.20p not 50p.
@@markrhoden68 yes it is. It's the best drivers car available under 50k and probably the best drivers car until you hit a Cayman GTS / GT4.
It's absolutely worth it for an enthusiast. If you'd prefer a heavy M3 / auto 4wd car, this isn't for you.
@@seansimmons5071 In 2023 a 330ml can of coke is not £1.20. That's for a 500ml bottle. And a Focus actually starts from £27,000 (literally just googled it).
It sounds like the difference is tires. So seems simple to me. Test them both on the same rubber and get rid of that variable.
I am waiting on my Golf R20, but wanted to watch this because your reviews and comparison vids are on another level. Great job man.
That wheel hop is primarily the reason why I don’t want a FWD vehicle. Inside of the car it sounds like you’re destroying it or having an accident. It also negatively impacts your ability to get out of the way in a hurry. It feels unsafe. If it shakes and shudders like that when it’s dry out just imagine what it feels like to accelerate in a hurry under less than ideal conditions. I know there’s a ton of love out there for these but it’s just not for me. Great video though 🍻
Let me know your assessment after you race a Type-R
I could probably build Out my FK8 with that extra $15k and get more power and a better Setup while still keeping the weight down as well - WIN WIN 😊 Sorry FL5 love the shape but I fell in Love the the FK8 boy racer look the Only thing I would change would be the fake vents and fake side body panels that they added on vs the wide body look of the FL5 which I think the FK8 would look Aamazing with if Swapped Out 😊😁👍🏿
You chose that camera angle for the onboard race why? WTH guys.
I like her swagger a lot
I am going to put those lap times differences down to superior tyres for the new type R.
I like what they have done with the FL5, but the higher price and huge mark ups are ridiculous. I will be keeping my FK8.
It appears as if there’s a reason why Honda hasn’t done a recorded lap at the Nurburgring with the FL5…
FL5 seems faster around shorter circuits, FK8 may be faster over the long haul.
Yeah even on that short run the Fl5 gets ahead in the chicane, but the Fk8 catches it up again down the next straight.
I also wonder why no testing the new car around the green monster. I have a fk8 I do like the fl5 but for me the mark ups I want do. My 2018 was marked up 10k but got it for msrp dealer said it wasn't going to sell for that price. Looks like they should have went for the record good marketing. I will say this fk8 first type r in the states and did hold the record at the ring.
Always lovely to look at. Keep it up Rory!!
Looking forward to your Civic Type R vs Integra Type S comparison video!
Don’t think it will happen unless they travel away from the UK. In our market we don’t even get the Accord, let alone the Integra. 😢
Love the new type r more than the old. I’m not really sold with the design of the old but this one is so much better. Too bad I’m too poor buy one.
The new CTR looks so good. I want it but theres one in Vancouver asking $80,000 which is not reasonable.
Not my type of car but loved the review something to connect with my civic loving nephew on 😀👍
Its a lot of money for not a lot of difference...... That being said I do like the looks on the new car more. The old one just screams "person in hoodie racer" whilst the new one has a little more mature look about it. Still do a Golf R though.....
Parabéns pelo conteúdo!
Carro incrível!
Vale cada centavo!
"Turbo has been kaizen'd"
Build quality on the new type r will be better because it will be built in Japan. Also the old type r brakes will overheat with excessive track time. I believe they have corrected that issue on the new one.
The design of the new one is such an upgrade! The front gives me Charger vibes 👌
How does the front end of the FL even remotely give off Charger vibes? lol
"You got the Type R badge, to let the foos know" Ok good enough for me
I like the new design. Does not like look a gaming mouse, like the previous one. Looks a bit like Kia Stringer from the back. That wing looks a bit out of place though. The front looks more mature as well. I am going risk upsetting Type-R owners and ask, maybe it would have been better with all-wheel drive?
Love them both but the fk8 is my fav type r
I was super intrigued by the FK8 and how good the reviews were. But the looks were too wild for me. I said to myself if the new one is pretty much the same but has a more refined interior / exterior then I would buy it. They delivered exactly what I wanted (more so than I imagined) and so I bought one. I honestly don’t mind at thats it’s no faster than the old car. It’s still plenty fast enough for UK roads. Price wise I think it’s justified relative to the current competition on sale today, the quality, and it’s rarity.
You can actually put newer and better tyres on the old...stage 1 and it would be contest! 10k+ left for a good holiday...
Rory, I gather the gearbox is good, but there were reports of an intermittent gear-grind in fast 1-2 shifts. Actually this can be heard when the Stig is on the TG airfield.
That’s the reason latest Type R has heavier gear knob in effort to increase inertia of stick.
Reckon?
Just buy the old one and spend a couple of k making it faster and better handling
thats why i got myself the fk2 and im over the moon with it , aggressive looking , amazingly fast (stage 2 ) would never sell that car it is a keeper
7:04 That's such a sick shot props to the camera man
So I‘m buying a FK8. Thanks for this video 😁
I just hope the fl5 doesn’t overheat like the fk8 and then I’ll have something to upgrade to from my i30n in 3 years time
i don't think they increased the front grill for nothing tbh
So tyres are the major improvement? Not exactly worth 15K more I suspect. I did notice that you had the FK8 in sport mode (white surround around the tach) and the FL5 in R mode. TBH, the FK8 is far better looking than the Camryesque/ebay wing styling of the FL5. The best thing about the FL5 though: The instrument cluster and LogR.
I think I like the older gen Type R, it LOOKS like a Type R, if that makes sense
Sure does, same for me I don't care too much about technology or a slight improvement in comfort where you might gain in the old car by going to 19s maybe 18s.
@volkz too big
1:48 "To let the fools know" 🤣🤣.
I love the new Type R. It doesnt look as boy-racerish as the old one, has a way better infotainment system, better interior material and is overall a bit more premium. But lets be real, if it only equals the old one performance, that is fine. The old one was still top of its class by some margin. Is it worth the difference in price? Hard to put a dollar figure on those improvements, but rest assured, the FL5 will be a collectors item in the near future.
I think still FK8's design is better than FL5 design.
If you already have an iPhone 13, keep it, iPhone 14 upgrade is not worth it.
All jokes aside, I suspect it the FK8 had the same tires as the FL5, they would be dead even.
I like the old design better.. People say it might be a bit loud on the design but it looks amazing
I love the new lower key styling. Except for the wing, looks like it was picked up from the discounted section.
First thing I did when I got my fk8 was went down to 18” rims and wider grippier tires 265/40 to be exact best investment so the new fl5 never really caught my eyes especially with the ridiculous price tag.
The price isnt justified but the look to the FL5 is brilliant
It’s the wider tires and lighter wheels that make the difference, however many fl5 owners are cheering about the faster lap time because they think they got a overall superior car😂
Pretty sure the fl5 was faster on track than the upgraded limited edition fk8 on cup 2 tyres 🤷.... I reckon honda did a little more than just change the tyres 🧐
The FL5 is no longer built in the UK. That’s why it’s expensive for you guys. Import fees etc.
I never loved the old Type R,but this new one am loving it big time!!,Woo!!
Rory/Alex, what a great team. PERRRRFECT! Well done. We've not had a properly talented female car journalist on tele since VBH on Fifth Gear. It's so great to have Alex.
People always talked about the exterior of FK8. For me the inside was even worse than outside. The steering wheel alone put me off for a start. Let alone other components.
great review, and as a new porsche owner as well, the grip in the type r is scary good!!
The old Civic was so good that the new one was always going to struggle to completely dominate, but it looks like Honda has perfected the craft and managed it. Almost a second is ridiculously good with a minor power boost and whilst being heavier.
Those complaining about tyres don't know how good the stock conti 6s actually are.
Nice looking car but what I don't like about it that they changed the VTEC system but they had there reasons but in my opinion the ek9,ep3 are the best type R models in the Honda lineup.
I did not know it was much more expensive. Now I am not so excited about the new one. Not that I could afford any of these Civics, but still…
That Rolex makes the FL5 way much better❤
“It’s about driver skill now…unless I lose. Then I am 100% blaming the car.” 😂😂😂😂
15K more for basically the same as the FK8 but a tiny bit more power which in the rolling race as shown is no different. Only hardcore Honda fans will be silly to buy it at that price, there are plenty of other cars out there for the money. Making little changes here and there doesn’t need that price difference. Ridiculous. There is also a tyre light on the FK8 during the lap times, that would have affected the time, either way, I wouldn’t buy either of them.
@AutoTraderTV There was a video of Rory killin' it on a race track with the 50th anniversary Honda Civic Type-R, published before this one, but I can't find it anywhere on your channel, could you please check if you accidentally deleted it and put it back on? Thank you very much in advance.
5th Gear got the FK8 around Combe in 1.17.5. Maybe Rory was more comfortable pushing the FL or had more seat time at that point? I’d have expected the FL to be about 1.16.x.
I got my i30N round there in 1.19.6 and every review says they are way slower than Type Rs
Hard to compare across different days, given the time of year I'm guessing these laps were in ambient temperatures below 0. Heating up the fronts shouldn't be too hard even then, but the rear tyres may have just been like hockey pucks.
5th gear has racing drivers, you cannot compare
@@rdmz135 I suppose you then get to the question of should you be putting out the info that x is quicker than y if you are not capable of properly showing the difference between the two
Love the video. Love y'all.
I agree that the new Type-R isn't that much better. In fact $10,000 better? I don't know but I guess it's the last of this car. Honda will go out with a bang.
I will add that I prefer the look of the new car a lot. I'd rather pay for the new cars looks to be coming out of my garage. 😊😅
i believe Fk8 will be on par with FL5 in terms of lap time if they were on the same tires.
FL5 costs equivalent of £31k in Japan, so why does it cost over 50% more in the UK?
That’s a rip-off, especially when you consider the UK has a new post-Brexit trade agreement with Japan.
Surely lap times are inconclusive if one car has superior new Michelins and t’other is on old school Continentals?
Less than a second. Put the PS4S on the old one and it would be a dead heat. While I like the looks of the newer one better, it's not worth an additional 15 grand in my opinion.
New one looks cleaner but was hoping to be little faster to justify the increase in price
Great video Rory an Alex
You can't even get these at msrp. All dealerships have a huge mark up. They are definitely going for over 50k.
Honda killed hot hatch with this, the whole point is your 30K car could perform like the 50K cars. Now just buy a 50K car
Exactly. The FL5 is the same price as a Cayman now (ok, a base 718 is technically £5 more), the point of hot hatches is to annoy rich dickhead Porsche drivers, not be one!
As someone who bought a 981CS over a 718 because it's just better (even if it wasn't cheaper), I feel like Honda made the same mistake here as Porsche- why buy an FL5 when you can get an FK8? That said, the 718 has sold as well as the 981, even if used values are noticeably worse, so the FL5 is probably already fully allocated.
"to let fools know" - lol epic car and love the take on it Rory
Enjoyed that. Thanks
I've worked for multiple Japanese car manufacturer's. The concept of Kaizen originated from an American.
Id love to see the FK8 on the same wheels with the SportContact7 on them. I bet it would beat the FL5.
This new Civic looks good! Can't wait for them to launch the Type R version, with that agressive look!
🤣🤣🤣😆😆
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 thats gone with the wind , but you get a rear spoiler with it lol
From the front prefer the new one. But I like the look of the old one from every other angle
Love the "look" of the new Type R but hate the price increase. Way too expensive.
I'm with you on that!!
very good review team
Compared/comparison most powerful 2023 Hyundai i30 N Performance (with DCT transmission)
vs
this 2023 Honda Civic Type R?. 🤔
New one looks much better, which was the main issue with the old one. 50k though...Jesus
main issue for a percentage of car guys
General public on other hand seems to prefer boy racer fk8 looks, fl5 seems to blend in well.
⚫Old/Xgen civic also won North American Car Of the Year Award for styling among other features.
The same formula, from the oldest book, used time and time again, Honda should make the Type R all wheel drive
This comparison is like a Samsung S23 and S22.....but honestly i prefer the older version
I've been waiting for this match-up, but I wish they had the same tires. The new car looks way better as well
In reality the only weakness of the new model is that price hike... It's a real shame...
For me the new model in white shown here is my ideal little sports car...
I don't know its just me or not but I still like the old design,
I don't get it. The FL5 has yet to break the FK8s Nurburgring record. The longer gears, more power and slightly improved suspension should have given it an advantage but it didn't. Not worth 15g more
I'm sure I'm of the minority, but I actually prefer and always liked the look of the FK, even the non Type R models. I'm not really feeling the outward appareance of the FL, but I do prefer it's interior layout better.
The sheila was awesome, she could lead a reboot of Gone in 60 seconds with that attitude XD
Be honest....who's watching this video for the car, who's watching it for Rory, and who's watching it for Alex?
So save your money and get the Elantra N which is also more fun
The price is absurd, Honda are out of their minds. That said, people will still buy it, unfortunately, so I suppose that satisfies the business imperative.
FL5 FL5 FL5. Maybe because im an Accord guy so to me the FL5 looks amazing.
The new car is great on paper, but the price increase is too much for the relatively narrow scope of improvements.
If it was only about £5k more (instead of £15k more), these would have been really attractive proposition.
Nice and profesional. You only missed to mention if there is posible to instal ps4, 265 mm wide tyres on those original rims of fk8 and how much îs this, maybe some 1000 pounds.
most people switched wheels and tires anyways on FK8. Went shorter wheel and fatter rubber.