PRR Centipedes Extended History: Baldwin's biggest blunder
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- **Note: Only the audio in this video is mine, the pictures are not**
This is my first episode on a locomotive from one of the more unique railroads from America, the Pennsylvania Railroad (aka PRR or Pennsy) Baldwin Centipede locomotives from 1947. These were the first diesel locomotives from the famous steam builder, Baldwin Locomotive Works and highlighted how they were not able to adapt to the new type of engines with these being a dismal failure right from the get go.
They were also a "basic maintenance" headache with all of those brake shoes that had to be replaced every few thousand miles.
Epic failure. The Baldwin Centipede was (as Trains Magazine memorably called it) "The Big Diesel That Didn't" (a play on "The Little Engine That Could."). Great video!
The Pennsy was the Union Pacific of the East when it came to wanting oversized, oddball locomotives that turned out to be complete crap. The UP oddities C855, U50 and U50C come to mind.
Also the 9000 series steam loco's/ dd's / turbines
And don't forget UP had Centipedes on order, but Baldwin couldn't deliver them on time, so UP cancelled the order.
Exactly.
The success of the GG-1 electric led PRR management to abandon its old policy of maximum weight on driven wheels for smoother-tracking locomotives with more wheels and lower driver axle weight, which is why the PRR chose the T and Q Duplexes instead of Northerns and Challengers, starting in 1942. Up through the M1a class of 4-8-2's in 1930, PRR's steam fleet maximized weight on the drivers, like the 102,000 pound tractive effort I1sa 2-10-0's of 1916. That's pretty amazing for an engine weighing just 386,000 pounds (without tender).
Pennsy was extremely conservative throughout it's history, but in the late '30's went a bit off the rails with it's new designs, possibly due to the east coast lines having been electrified.
Baldwin road units survived into the early 1970s on CP Rail lines in BC.
Where were the fuel tanks, and how much did they hold? Looks like the capacity had to be in the hundreds of gallons.
Blows me away that you never mentioned the Seaboard Air Line’s centipedes! Very sharp looking units on the SAL!
I must've missed them in my research, if I do an updated video I'll make sure to mention them
The Pennsylvania Railroad GG1 in Tuscan red (with the five gold stripes and keystone, as shown in your video) was my favorite locomotive growing up. Art Deco powered by pantograph. It doesn't get any better.
My favorite too. On October 29, 1983, I rode behind a GG1 in its last in-service run from Matawan, NJ.
Three of NdeM's lasted until 1971. As much as I like them, it was a doomed design. Baldwin was trying to design diesel locomotives like steam locomotives, and it showed. EMC/EMD made the leap to offering just a couple of basic, mass-produced designs with a few basic options, and did the research to ensure they would be good designs, and this is why they beat out Alco and Baldwin.
Amazing as per usual 🪃🐨🦘🇦🇺🤠
The Centipedes had the same wheel arrangement as the Great Northern Ry. Class W-1 electric locomotives, which were graduates of General Electric's Erie Works in 1947. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the W-1 and the Baldwin Centipedes have some connection, even though the Centipede's electrical parts came from PRR online customer Westinghouse. Fun Fact: The double-ended GN W-1 class (2 units) were the largest electric locomotives to ever operate in the U.S., and that includes the E60s used by Amtrak. They fit like wadding down a musket barrel in Cascade Tunnel.
Pennsy was trying to help out it's long-time builder, Baldwin. Unfortunately Baldwin wasn't up to the job.
In an alt-universe where WWII didn't depricate the steam railroad manpower and maintenance infrastructure, the Baldwin/Lima/ALCO/ and even minor builders would've dominated. They failed the transition to diesel-electric not because railroads didn't want powerful locos or weren't willing to maintain them, but because the railroads actually couldn't!!! Something about having every man under 45 drafted and then everything being run (efficiently) literally into the ground by the ODT and wartime shortages. But ever steam machinist and maintainer left would be retired by 1965 -- and anyone else left with skill in repair or fabrication would be working in defense/aerospace for much more than the railroads could afford. I wrote a 50 page thesis on this once but really this 1 paragraph comment on YT about covers it X-)
Something either is unique, or isn't.
You can't have 'more' or 'less' unique.
Too true
Unique is a very specific word, from the Latin, literally meaning 'one only'. It needs no modification and any attempt to do so will be grammatically incorrect.
EMD would have never designed something like this.. They were totally committed to diesels and had no legacy steam business to draw from or to influence design. All of the legacy steam builders failed at the diesel business.
Which is a shame because it would've been interesting to still have companies like Baldwin and ALCO still around
Uh, what about their DD40AXs for Union Pacific? Two motors, 16 wheels.
@@Greatdome99- EMD built other dual-engine units, the entire "E" series, 2 engines in a single carbody riding on A-1-A trucks. The DD series was based on standard components and practice. The Centipede's 2-D-D-2 running gear is straight out of steam and early electric locomotive practice.
It's ironic how emd ended up like alco. A dead-end company in the shadow of ge and probably won't be long till emd is added to the builder grave yard.
There were no B units. The locos--all A units with cabs--were intended to be run in pairs.
Ah right thanks for the information
No this turkey was never going to fly.
Very true
Seaboard Airline used these as well and I believe had them longer
NdeM had them too.
If only they were built in a Production line method rather than how Baldwin Did it. Then they may have lasted into Amtrak Era.
I doubt they would've made it that far but definitely a few more years
@@TSRFilms1014 Ironically, 3 of NdeM's Centipedes did last until 1971.
Why all the wheels?
Electric traction motors in those days couldn't produce enough power as today, so more were added to handle the diesel power.
They had similar running gear compared to the GG1 and were intended to handle heavy passenger trains west of the wires in Harrisburg. They were not the first BLW road units and were also owned by Seaboard Air line and N de M in Mexico.
closely grouped together wheels = less axle load = less weight compression to rails = smooth ride to both the engineer and the passenger
Was it 'leema' or 'lyema' . . . ?
You mean Lima locomotive works?
If Baldwin were Smart and they made sure the Centipedes were good to begin with, some of them may have survived to this day, but unfortunately, that is not the case.