Traps: Should They Be Removed? | League of Legends
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- Опубліковано 17 лис 2021
- For today's video we're gonna be talking about traps in League of Legends, and why I think despite seeming like they belong in the game, they should be removed.
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#LoL #Traps - Ігри
"Vision is important, but not if it takes a full ability slot"
Ashe:
i miss the extra gold
Quinn (sitting in bottom tier for some years now):
@@guest_zzroman2076 or kalista
@@nacl7991 the sad part is, That unlike Quinn and Ashe... Kalista w does not even provide reliable vision
@@D3rWischmop oh no a ward that can't see me
"Just about everyone in League has that one mechanic that they absolutely cannot stand."
Listing them all, I absolutely expected Vars to finish it up with Yone.
So are we going to ignore that viego is in three of those
@@TrapTrax yeah he does have all 3 but comparing him to others who have them he's pretty tame
his stealth is minimal because he just goes HEY BE CAREFUL IM SNEAKING UP ON YOU, same goes for pyke but at least pyke doesn't also tell you where he's coming from and where he's going
his w makes him slow himself before dashing which kinda defeats the purpose of having a dash and his ult makes him wind up before using it so it can't efficiently be used as a dash unless it's used for a wall hop meaning galeforce catlin is more mobile than viego
and his untargetability on the other hand isn't a underwhelming as the other two but even then it requires him to score a kill to be used so if he's behind he might as well not have it
viego's power comes from his ungodly ability to melt anything he touches and to heal back too full in the blink of an eye, not from his dashes or stealth
@@TrapTraxyou took the words right out of my mouth
I definitely feel like traps have gotten better and more balanced with time. Shacos boxes imo are the only traps that still feel overwhelming sometimes because they can’t be countered at all by melee champs. But other than that I think they serve their purpose pretty well without being too stupid.
...which is why it'd be effective to take a support like Morgana, or an ADC like Sivir. When I play Shaco Support I always ban Morgan.
There's *always* room for countering - you just need the knowledge and/or skill to do it. Or buy anti-CC shields. Or use a CC-preventing ultimate before going to highly-contested area when you're about to engage like with Mundo or Olaf.
As a Shaco-Teemo main I know those counters and play around them/outplay them/not take the fight.
@@galgrunfeld9954 not to mention the red trinket plus umbral glaive, shaco boxes aren’t that hard for melee champs to deal with
@@thebreadfetish2370 melee can't clear shaco traps even with red trincket
I think the fear effect should only happen if they are invisible, that's the tamest nerf I can think of not to anger Shaco mains.
Essentially once revealed they lose their fear effect and either just do damage or get destroyed by attacks or abilities. God knows how many times a Shaco box is put in the middle of a team fight and there's nothing to do to counter it, taking a control ward or sweeper makes them useless for the period of time that the reveal is active.
@@cherno8336 this just isn't true. Just don't walk into the trap and u can still auto attack it
As a cait main
Placing a trap between you and a Garen and then dancing around it in circles as he tries to hit you is the greatest thing ever
I freaking do not enjoy this because I am the Garen :/
Or placing them on people sitting in zonyas lol.
The toxic thing is placing them behind turrets so they are invisible
then he presses W, Q walks to you, and you die
idk, using your own tower to cuck a graves is pretty fkn hilarious
Me the garen main that goes legend tenacity, unflinching and Merc treads and pressed w :
what trap?
Keep the traps, but remove Yone pls.
i agree, i perma ban him every game
A guy missed every single ability, and dived tower without wave just autoing in my game. And he has just 1 kill of advantage
Just play sett
Polish vars’ tip more bro. Yone isn’t that good lol
Jill Stingray pfp with such a based take ? That is the biggest W
I like how Viego has three of the five hated elements at the beginning but they're all an arguably mediocre version of each of them
Traps are an interesting mechanic with clear strengths and weaknesses. They provide area control but can be circumvented with Oracle Lens and a bit of time
But the thing is, some feel fair to play around and some don't, imo
Jhin's traps, for example, slow you and will damage you upon explosion but there is more than enough time to get out
And on the other side, there are Shaco's traps which cannot be cleared without being activated if you're a melee champion
N' there's Teemo, like mines that still buried around middle east, all unknown
@@notfrenchvanillaicecream shaco boxes become untargetable when they are invisible so you can't clear them with an aoe ability without seeing them first
Cait's traps cant be cleared but has the smallest area effectivity. You either go around it or not.
@@corndog7813 Cait traps specifically to setup for her passive on cc'ed enemies so calling it traps is not really that much
@@notfrenchvanillaicecream the hek shaco boxes are the strongest traps in the game losing only for teemo
The special thing about Caitlyn's traps is, that an experienced player can nuke an enemy, by placing these traps under enemies in a teamfight. Byt giving the root, it not only procs your headshot mechanic, but it also gives you time to get in place or escape, that's why Caitlyn's traps need to be visible and have a small hitbox, because the YST can be argued to be the strongest in the game
i like to consider cait trap more like old swain nevermove in active tf use. a delayed ability which gives u setup by forcing ppl to walk around or can be setup by others for guaranted effect + the trap part is another versitile way of use
To me, Jhin’s traps are an essential part of his kit, and I wouldn’t trade them out for anything.
Most people make the mistake that the traps should actually hit and deal damage, when actually, their true power is the utility they provide.
The threat of dealing damage to ward enemies off, the slow that gives the peel needed for your team to retreat, these uses of his traps makes Jhin so interesting to play, as you choreograph and influence how the fight will go before it even starts. As opposed to other champs that have kits to revolve around their attack speed.
If Jhin isn’t perfectly designed I don’t know what is.
he doesn't have 4 traps tho
Best feeling when you place 2 traps in a Bush someone walks in (normaly the supp) you root and engage on him with your supp and one shot him because of double trap damage
And of course no trap = no ap jhin
So yeah sad
true. Vars also kinda contradict himself when he put jhin into this video cuz he had another video saying Jhin is the perfect champion. So I guess he doesn't actually think Jhin is perfect at all?
F O U R !!!!
"Traps don't feel rewarding to use" Wait what? Vars put some time into Teemo or Shaco and you'll feel the reward.
I see vars has never tried out the delicacy known as AP Jhin
@@cokecan6169 Ap Jhin is for sure the most rewarding trapper in the game, each kill, a masterpiece.
You can remove them with a 0 dollar trinket or a 75 dollar totem.
A trinket that's up once every 90 seconds while Teemo drops 250-600 damage mushrooms every 20 seconds that are undetectable without it.
@@fortheloveofgodlaugh2981 And on top of that, if Teemo is nearby he can disable you from clearing them for up to 3 seconds
@@fortheloveofgodlaugh2981 Item haste (which ingenious hunter give alot) and multiple oracles solved the issue. And it's not like you can only clear 1 shrooms per trinket.
@@NXE212 Oh yeah let me take the least popular rune just to deal with one ability of the opposing team. And if the mushrooms are spread out (and they usually are) you're gonna have a fun time in the jungle or crossroads
@@drthop That rune is currently the best one especially with how good predator is right now, what you on about?
Traps are an implementation of a variegated and anticonventional playstyle with its own kind of skill expression. In instances where they are properly balanced they're not shown to be overly oppressive, so no: totally against removal of traps from the game. We've already had a full two years of boring, mechanically samey champions with no interesting quirks at all except Rell, let's at least keep the weird quirky ones we already have intact.
His entire speech about traps being "useless" is SO wrong, The entire point of a trap is to buy you time, either they step in it and trigger it, giving you knowledge and some damage, or they destroy/circumvent it, which buys you time. And temp vision is 1000% worth an entire ability slot. Fucking ASHE has LITERALLY THAT AS AN ABILITY. Dude has no idea what he is talking about in regards to the proper use and power of traps.
rell is fun
I think that shaco is the worst ofender in how bad traps are: Damage, hard cc, AoE and for some reason cannot be taken down with oracle ir you are melee, so there is pretty much nothing healthy about them.
Teemo gets damage, some cc with the slow and AoE, but at least it can be removed with oracle so even ir they can be annoying there is actual counter play to it.
The rest of traps are actually fine as they are
Nidalee can only hit one person at a time so its fine
Cait gets hard cc with her traps and can deal a lot of damage if she is in range, but she dosent get traps that are invisible, so you can just not step on them (unless they are on a bush) so they are not that bad
Jhin may get all of what Teemo gets, but he dosent get the damage inmediatly, and there is almost always more than enough time to just walk out of the trap area, so they are pretty healthy
Yeah, Jhin’s traps mostly are used to proc his W or as anti-gank measure
I'm 99% sure shaco's boxes are disabled by oracles unless they changed it
Why are there so many people saying melee can't destroy shaco boxes. This isn't true at all
@@Sxrew they can't,you get feared,only 200 years melee have enough range to actually clear them
@@Sxrew They are more saying you cant destroy them without getting feared and losing like 5-10% of your hp just to remove it. That also depends on if you have a ranged ability or not like Olaf can Q them down. but its annoying in its own right.
"Vision is important, but not so much that you need to dedicate an ability slot for it."
Meanwhile Kalistas W: "OH, really?"
kalista w is a joke... pretty easy to avoid and often gives a false sense of security. idk what the devs were thinking of that one.
And Ashe E
@@steffenaltmeier6602 i mean, the real w is the passive in it, vision is just the bonus i guess
@@kittyluneko true, tho the real problem is that even the passive is shit. So when the two halfs of a ability are bad, its hard to say that said ability is good
I'd say Cait's traps are the most interactive, ironically. You can see them, enemy can see them, and it is a bigger threat than most of the others. As an adc, anything that helps keep distance and any form of hard cc is gold.
Also Teemo shrooms would be more tilting if there weren't so many different builds he can go, not all are Nuke shroom builds so for him it's more about the build plus the ability rather then just the shrooms themselves
i think its fair cause going nuke shroom brings other disadvantages for him + i think teemo shroom are the weakest next to nida. They serve as better wards but have little to no other use when he is not ahead.
+ the nuke shroom builds are arguably weaker in lane, so it's harder to get ahead
As a shaco main I have to disagree with the first point, you can definitely influence people's movement and get them to run into traps.
He meant as a skill, not by purely existing LMAO
"Remotely detonated traps" imagine the cancer if there was a techies like character in League
I agree with this because Techies in DOTA was too frustating with his remotely detonating bombs
90mins games are fun
As a Techies one trick I'm still waiting for a champ like him uwu
Explosions!
i never want to see techies in league
Hey! Nidalee main here. I wanted to say that the real strength of her traps come from the absolute ridiculous range you can place them in and the really low cooldown. The range, plus her long spear range, allow her to NEVER have to facecheck anything whatsoever and track junglers (mostly in their own jungle). I admit it's relatively difficult to get the best out of Nidalee traps, but I think people underestimate the power of control that comes with those traps.
I actually think it's a great ability and FAR from underwhelming.
also the passive effect is nice
Also using cait as a example of short range trap is a bit weird too
its also quite nice cos since u never really need to max it it stays at quite a low mana cost so if u wasted all ur mana and desperately need a chance at dmg u can try w
@@kuliosw4815 Cait getting in range to place a trap is more than enough for any assassin to kill her, sure she still has one of the highest ranges in the game but most engage abilities either have the same range or are higher range.
As insanely frustrating as most of the traps are, none are so overtuned that they feel broken or overwhelming. There are definitely bigger problems then teemo shrooms even tho it still hurts my feelings 🥲
I just don't think getting killed from 2 teemo shrooms and nothing else is a fair or fun way to play
@@SaintSoba in that case your team already fed Teemo to the extent that the game should be over... or you have 0 Mres
@@staren1991 yeah I guess, but every other champ you can lay macro around to win if they have bad macro, or if teemo is the only one fed. But with teemo you can't step into jungle without dying. He can have upwards of 15 shrooms out, that is way too much map control for one player
@@SaintSoba fifteen shrooms is enough to entirely cover a corner portion of the map with a few remaining elsewhere.
So if you’re about to go into top red buff jg and you step on a shroom don’t follow. Because they’ll use themselves as bait to trick you into their shrooms then engage.
always coordinate with another person when engaging unless you have enough CC and damage to counter him.
An example is Jhin, Teemo has a hard time countering him because of his flower blossom trap, W, and fourth shot.
@@SaintSoba I consider that fair given he's absolute garbage in a teamfight setting if he's unable to set up those traps or his team can't fight around them. As a former main of him, most of Teemo's problems have to do with his lopsided laning matchups, not his map control. And they're not exactly unique to him apart from the Blind on his Q, which I would prefer if it was changed to use Nearsight like Quinn's Q so it has use against everyone but isn't a hard counter to certain champions.
I like the trap mechanic, it's really nice and it's a classic. I don't think they need to be buffed to be like a Anivia ult or a Gragas barrel. If they try to make Traps like that they are missing the whole point, why make it a trap and not make it a control ability anyway? The whole point of control mages is to control, the whole point of a trap is to be a trap.
If adding more traps would remove Irelia, Yone, Viego and other Burstassasins with sustained damage, cc, sustain and 2-3 longer dashes, so be it.
"Sitting entities that are to be stepped on" You described me pretty well.
Oh my god. Cait's trap has a *cupcake* in it.
Its why theyre indestructible, itd be a shame to waste good food
Besides, how else would you catch Yordles?
Edp
My opinion on traps are surprisingly not big, but there are hidden ways traps are used in game. Area denial and Damage, maybe for vision idk, but sappers that have these improvised for abilities have a bad reputation record of being annoying and mostly used for guerilla approach which in a map that provokes concealment is a viable way of combat.
Short answer: No
Long answer: I really disagree with your arguments Vars, I never felt like traps are weaker than other spells, they serve as they are intended to, the only trap I think is bad designed are the shaco boxes, but teemo, nidda and cait all have their own reason to exist. Caitlyn can use them to combo or siege, Jhin can use his traps as a safe way to slow down enemy ganks, teemo can play the mindgame when ahead, or use them as a defensive tool to discourage people from inavade your jg when behind, yes they can disable traps with oracle, but that's not a bad thing, if you put a trap in the enemy jg you will track the enemy jg, he doesn't need to activate it, him disabling it gives you vision and information.
I also don't think that they being not interactive is a problem, of course the aren't good to combat, but as real life, they can be used for setup. Ori ball can control things in battle, but what it does the rest of the game? It gives you vision? It covers your escape route? I believe the problem is that we never had a character designed especific for traps, every charater just has then in the kit, but I really beleive that traps can be useful in the game.
What I feel like is missing is the indirect zone control it creates.
Because being creative with traps and also using them defensively is half the battle, as offensive tools they are very inconsistent, but if they weren't they would be absurdly overtunned.
Teemo can setup a defensive route, so chasing him or his team can be extremely dangerous, I think it's more about how they can feel extremely suffercating and they can actively deter you from interacting with the enemy.
TBH all traps are designed very well and fit into a characters kit/design... None of them are really useless or even bad.. Nidalee traps are one of the reasons she's an incredibly fast jungler and can even do her camps low levels. The resets with the rest on her 2 abilities (w and R) make it worth it. not to mention the range it has so it's basically a shorter blue ward for checking bushes/not face checking from far away. Jhins traps give him the extra burst he needs to 1 shot someone lower level if he catches them in it with his W. Caitlyn's trap gives her extra chase / run away potential.
not 20 seconds in and I'm already noticing the hidden joke in Viego being in all 3 of the first mentioned mechanics
There are a bunch of active effect "traps" that you can detonate remotely. (Gragas Barrel, Lux E, Ziggs Satchel Charge, etc.)
The issue comes in that you can only have one instance of that ability active at anytime because the way to trigger them is through recasting the same ability. It comes down to button availability.
The other issue is that all of these active effect traps are visible to the enemy making the standard response to instantly trigger them and rarely to set them up for zone control.
a good implementation of a trap abillity would be Templar Assassin's traps from DOTA, where they don't deal any damage, but instead need to be manually activated to slow a huge area, kind of like Nidalee, since the trap ins't good by itself, but offer great utility to the rest of the kit.
Just let melee champs clear any trap when it is disabled (like Teemo R)
I think of them as stall mechanics. The idea of them is to stall the enemy, whether its shoving waves or approaching an objective. Even when revealed by oracles, they still need to be cleared. Also, they make defending towers much easier as there is now more risk in diving and can help manage multiple lanes as you dont have to be there for them to work
Don’t please… there is nothing more satisfying then seeing someone get to one tic by a shroom just to walk into another as they waste a redemption and a yummi trying to keep the kayle from dying right before drake only to see on the last tick… summon airy Comin in clutch with the cross map shut down.
I love the subtle jab at Viego in the first 15 seconds lol
I feel like your "negatives" are actually just highlighting different types of playstyles which I think is good for the game. As a teemo main I'd say traps are much more useful when you're losing. They get triggered a lot more as the opponents are advancing on you. Gives you time to scale up and get back.
Vars, is this Battle Network Transmission music I hear????
Your Music choice is always great.
Great Video yet again. Keep it up.
"vision is important but not if it takes up an ability slot" *Quinn sweating*
"oh a new video!"
"In 11 hours..."
A really neat trick with teemo schrooms that I rarely see people use, js to place them in late to farm creeps for you or slow down enemy advancement in case you lose a team fight
Hi Vars, I would like to point to a mechanic that I feel went undermentioned in your video. True, it's hard to go into the offensive when using traps (i would not agree with the phrasing: "hard to be proactive with...") the thing is, zone control does play an important role whenever your team gets to an objective first, as well as it being a primary tool to manipulate adversaries movements, especially when "kiting" or extending fights.
It is true that traps can work as a win-more mechanic, but they also comprise a vital part of the psychological warfare / playstyle of most champs that possess them.
He said that
Even in team fights you can exert pressure with some of the traps. Toss down a couple mushrooms or boxes as the enemy engages and they can split their team as the back line tries to dodge them.
Another well made video, I personally think traps are fine and balanced the way they are. May I ask, what music did you use of for the video?
I don't think that they should be removed. They make game more intresting and unique. Yes they might not be best things in the world but at the end of the day they make champions unique and in some cases can change a lot
You using the ost from Megaman network transmission on the GameCube made me very happy
One thing I'm gonna say its far easier to use Shaco's traps when he is behind because the enemy is more likely to engage on you. AP Shaco is really good into dive comps for a reason. The "Pink Ward deals more damage when he is low health" meme also exists for a reason. In addition, the boxes are the very thing that allows Shaco to turn around against a stronger opponent. Even AD Shaco for that matter.
This isn't something I see many people use, but unless the enemy team is very squishy (which don't happen very often), I max boxes second on AD Shaco to get not only the fear duration, but the high base damage people never expect from a Shaco that's not building AP. With that, I'm allowed to win almost any 1v1 against the likes of Fiora as long as I have a box ready and another off cooldown. This isn't as difficult to setup as it sounds. Scattering boxes along choke points, sometimes even the middle of a lane, get an opponent to chase you and into that box. If they bait the bite, without tenacity they get feared for as long as it takes for the second box, which you'll place down to arm. With 4 seconds of CC (a little less with tenacity, but still rarely less than 3) your opponent will eat your DPS and that of double boxes (which again, have a high base damage when maxed). Alternatively, making the opponent think the clon is the real Shaco and bait him into killing the clon will give free CC which you can place a box and reduce the enemy's time to react to it.
It is very easy to just slam the hammer and claim traps are hit or miss, but if Shaco were to be reworked and the boxes went away with it, I'd drop the champion on the spot. The boxes are very, VERY rewarding.
Maybe I have a different view on the matter because the champion has many tools to manipulate his opponent to do what you want them to, but even then, that just reinforces my point that, at least for Shaco, boxes aren't just a hit or miss mechanic that's just kinda there. They're a core component of his playstyle.
This. Its pretty easy to spot the "Meta only" players. They always tell you that mechanics that introduce thought into the game are useless.
I think it's also important to look at how traps can be used reactively. If I'm getting chased, the slow and potential root that his E gives me are useful for running away
I find that Teemo's mushrooms work well him in lane as an extra defences against ganks as well as helping him kite or chase enemies who step into them. It works well with his on-hit play style. Then they also do quite a but of damage with his ap build.
Shaco traps as bad as they are. Would be the only one I'd ever complain about. It's guaranteed to effect a melee champion and has the most annoying cc in the game. I'd rather be slow than feared.
Also great great great work on the video man. The design and visual details are honestly what set you apart from other information lol tubers.
My two biggest issues with these traps are:
1 Shaco's box not being able to NOT be triggered by melee champs.
2 Teemo's slow lasting for 4 whole seconds. (And the kinda huge explosion radius, where a minion or teammate walks on one, and you're going straight back to your base)
Now this might sound super toxic, but here's one random idea I had for an ultimate trap.
Invis, long windup, super tiny hitbox teleport trap. If you step on it, you get stunned and the champion can recast to teleport right next to you. The champion would be a jungler designed entirely around placing traps and bursting enemies to corral them to the trap, then teleporting next to them to finish the job (and maybe finish off any other allies in the area).
I think Vars is underestimating the value and presure of traps because his trapper capabilities are worse than his others game-related capabilities.
Two example : the presure of seeing one teamate activating a trap. You are on edge no matter if there are others traps. And the placement of traps, they don't need to be "optimised". They even work better if you place them "unoptimised"
"Riot wants the focus to be on the champion itself, not the summon"
Me: look at Heimerdinger spawning a turret and running away as it deals 2k damage on 2 seconds, and Yorick spawning a ghost that literally deals a champions equivalent of damage while he backs away.
Pretty cool.
If u run through a heimer turret field u deserve to take 2k damage
@@Sxrew He can spawn the super-turret and keep his distance, which alone does 2k damage veery quickly.
Traps should be explored more. I feel like they can be revolutionary in controlling terrain, just like how traps were used in war in the past.
Honestly, I gotta disagree with you on this one, i think that when you place down a trap especially in the enemies face they know that they have to go over it and their indecision can get get you somewhere while they are all not wanting to spring it, so while it might not be as interactive as some mechanics I think traps are a good addition and would like to see more traps added in the future.
-Just not 200 years traps, I really don't want that.
In dota 2 there is a champ called techies who place down traps that do different things like one stuns and the other two do flat damage one being his q and the other his r but the other part of his ult is an aoe detonate on all traps
Yes, and remove shaco while you are at it. And just in general clones and invis pls
Manual trap detonation could be achieved by changing the ability icon when hovering over a primed trap so instead of placing your exploding it. However that does mean no more trap stacking.
ive always wanted to see a champion with traps that interact with the terrain. like a stealth gate that activates when someone passes through it that acts like a karthus w between two walls
One change I would like them to make for Shaco is making it so if you hit the boxes before they prime their invisibility, they don't go invis. It would make fighting Shaco as a support far less annoying since you really can't counter his boxes in any other way.
Vars, I think you are missing a point here. Like a crucial one. Traps are present mostly on champions that are either immobile, or have limited mobility. Take Jhin, Caitlyn and Teemo. All of them have very little to escape a gank during laning phase. Two other champions are junglers, but even so, Nidalee's mobility is only good if she is jumping at an enemy, not away. That's where traps come in handy. I think Caitlyn is the worst of the bunch, but other two work just fine. What I'm trying to say is that traps are not only "win more" mechanic, or hit or miss ability. It is a crucial zone control tool for laning phase, that can allow them to do something, that other champions really can't. Take jhin's lotuses for example. They are extremely good at allowing Jhin to kite enemy bruisers. Traps are not just a boring floppy mechanic. I think they are cool and completely alter gameplay and your tactic.
I think Teemo's Shrooms, Jhin's Lotuses and Cait cupcake beartraps are one of the best ability designs in the game.
Completely unrelated to the vid but i was curious to know why u dont have a hardest champs vid and was hoping you could make one soon
Dota has an interesting Hero, which is all about traps. Techies. His Q is a trap that deals a chunk of damage instantly in an AOE and can not be detected or stacked. His W is a stasis trap that stuns enemies in a large radius. His Ult however is the most interesting. It is a trap that you can stack and most importantly: Does not detonate when you walk over it. You activate it instead. Meaning if the enemy team walks over it, you can activate it manulally to hit as many as possible.
Not to mention: He can place a visible sign which grants nearby mines (About Flash-Range) Perfect stealth (Meaning you can not detect them). This grants another level of mindgames where you can also place the sign so people avoid a location, despite the fact that it is not filled with mines.
THAT is how you do a Trap character. But adding traps onto another characters Kit either results in an underpowered champ or a trap that has no impact.
Honestly, this is why I love playing Neeko. Her decoy can make the Shaco box activate as well as activate Caitlin traps. I haven't checked for Teemo or Jhin, but I'd assume it would work. Really entertaining ever since I took her as a support with predator and I can hard counter a Nunu encounter if he isn't being patient
I think a use for traps that people don't think about all that much is the ability to push a lane you aren't in. Jhin and Teemo have incredible roaming potential because they can have their traps catch minion waves making it impossible to take tower plates while they're gone making your lane opponents have to sit around and catch waves under tower while you do whatever you want.
I wish there were more interesting types of traps. It would be cool if you could place a hidden taliyah E that triggers when stepped on and unexpectedly launches an enemy over a wall, for instance.
Wow, Vars finally made a vid on Sneaky, great work!
The missed opportunity to put a picture of sneaky the first time you said "lets talk about traps in league of legends" 😭
I love the new edit and the portraits and abilities of the champions
I _love_ traps and wish there were more! Riot has seemed to forget about them recently though.
Speaking of forgotten mechanics would be cool if you did a video about tethers and the underused potential they have while explaining why they're not used anymore. Just saying.
basically because now everyone one shots everyone, waiting 2 seconds for an ability to take effect is too much for pro pay it seems, i liked when they reworked assassins to make them take more time to kill, it was basically the only time i played fizz and leblanc, i find instakilling really boring
@@devforfun5618 True. Tethers and traps are _really_ interesting to me. So much potential. It is easier to give any champ a dash, a skillshot and an onhit passive though so I doubt we will be seeing much variety for a long time.
Original champion idea from me,
Zsvatu, the envenomed shaman.
W - feet snatcher
Zsvatu places down a massive snap jaw trap, invincible but visible to enemies which lasts indefinitely. Enemies who step on it recive 100/200/300/400/500(+200% AP) physical damage and are rooted for 3/3.5/4/4.5/5 seconds.
Zsvatu can place only one feet snatcher at a time. After triggering or placing in new location it turns into feet snatcher remains, casting feet snatcher on the remains refunds 25-75%(champion level) mana cost.
Idea is. This trap is literaly meant to block paths. It is very powerful but its also very in the face. Its bigger than the river's pixel Bush so only place you can maybe hide it is tribush on side lanes.
I think I like trap because they indirectly make your enemy team have less vision than your team because the enemy will invest in Oracle Lens than Stealth Ward or Farsight Alteration.
Something that could be cool is more powerful traps, but with an activation requirement. Kind of like Taliyah's mines. Perhaps with multiple effects depending on if it's met or not.
A long range turret that only activates if you're in range of several of them, so it actually leads to significant damage.
A trap that activates when a ward is placed nearby, destroying it. An anti-ward if you will.
A trap that activates when a nearby ally is low health and heals them, but can be disabled by enemies stepping on it and taking damage.
Could you imagine if Zigg’s satchel charges were actually able to stick around longer and detonated at any time? It’s be like your average FPS game with everyone throwing C4’s around
Something to note with traps (At least the invisible ones): you can bluff their existence, even if the person isn't fed, typically a trap is going to do something, like slow, root, or reveal a champion and nobody wants to step on a trap, even an AD teemo's trap
Templar Assassin from Dota has the kind of traps that are discussed towards the end of the video: they can be detonated remotely and even teleported to, which synergizes nicely with the rest of her kit. In fact, I think LoL could carefully pilfer a few more concepts from Dota; after all, Yorick's circular wall already got taken from HOTS Nazeebo, and people got over it pretty quickly. Just my five cents ~O~
Teemo's mushrooms and Shaco's boxes should be active on cast. That is, the shrooms should still explode if they touch a valid target and the boxes should start shooting without the fear part if detecting an enemy before stealth kicks in.
Another important use of trap is during a siege, both defensive and offensive. On the defensive side, teemo traps make sure that enemies will most likely have to dive towers without minions and getting slowed or cc in the turret range is very unhealthy. Caitlyn traps however is more interesting when used offensively during a siege. People are now forced to walk through the field of traps to kill Caitlyn or she will kill the turret eventually with her long range shots.
I do believe there needs to be more ways to detect traps, an exaple I can think of is changing Umbral Glaive so it detects traps in its range instead of the traps having to detect you, cos by the time a Teemo shroom gives the enemy vision of you u already stepped in it
But it does exactly that?
I love traps as a concept because unlike most kits they offer reward for macro planning and less so for micro play, which is rare in an ability, but the champ has to be weird for em to stick.
I'll always stand by nidalee as the best traps. They serve her kit well as a jungling tool and as vision tool. Their DOT synergies with burn builds if you wanna shave some HP before encounters or are fighting a tanky team. They grant her vision and mobility, and their far cast range means you can toss one into a team fight as a suprise option for squishies who are a lil too comfortable in the back line. If I had my way, I'd give it some missing health damage to further push the burn synergy and to reward kills for trapping behind the enemy line before or after a fight
I remember a time when building rilai plus liandry on nidalee made her traps shred through tanks like butter, and teemo traps would just mean any affected champion had to return to base or die
I like how Viego is shown as an example for 3 of the 5 hated mechanics you gave us as examples.
teemo shrooms can be used defensively to lock down the advance of lane minions in order to stall a game and get a chance to scale/increase the window of opportunity for the enemy team to make mistakes
mejais is relatively common used in high elo when super behind as a mage (atleast in times when mages are not litteraly garbage) since it is cheap and gives you extra value on every takedown in addition to giving you a way to become a threat again that way
As someone who specifically enjoys champs with traps, COUNTERPOINTS!
1. Hitting or missing isn't always the point, see 2
2. They're incredibly great for pressure, because of that psychological warfare element. They're very intuitive for a player who thinks in terms of keeping an enemy behind and limiting their options (as compared to someone who thinks in terms of getting ahead, like hyper carries). The potential of threats require use of valuable resources like sweepers and pink wards, or, repathing. Traps functionally give your team more options for resources and pathways than the opponents team.
3. I disagree, see back to what I said in number 2 about them functioning greatly for limiting options. It's not just win-more, but can also slow down enemy progress while your team attempts to catch up. Especially in the case of someone like Teemo who can use their traps for strong objective control. I've had it happen multiple times where traps were a huge element in delaying an ahead enemy team enough for us to secure objectives or get a teammate off death cooldown and back into the regroup.
4. That one I'll give you. They're uninteractive and that's kinda the point. Set n forget.
5. Also disagree, sorta. The zone control is different in nature, but not really better or worse. If you're using the traps for objective control, then chances are you're present at the objective to capitalize on the traps going off. If I had 10 RP for every time I've hid in a bush as teemo with a river I've spent the last 3 minutes flooding with shrooms, just to pop out and demolish someone who (a) stepped on a trap face checking or (b) just started sweeping I would have half the skins in League. Active ability zoning is generally limited to a single pathway and very resource demanding, and generally always require you be present at that specific spot. Whereas with traps, you can have at ~least~ one path corked and it doesn't require you tending to that particular path.
"Remote detonate traps"
>flashbacks to Techies
Uhhhhhhhhh nothankyougoodsir, lol.
I think this is one of those cases where League probably shouldn't take any pages from DotA. Traps being as underwhelming as they are now is... fine. Regrettable but fine.
If we were dead set on trying to make traps better (in the sense of more interactive), I think we'd need to revamp the vision system and that's... not something I think League players would be pleased with. We'd probably need to go the route of old Umbral Glaive, and make trap detection something you need to buy into, rather than just automatic, while simultaneously removing ward stealth and... it'd just be a whole thing, and I'm not sure it's a good idea.
remote detonation would be pretty cool, kind of like Templar Assassin in DoTA but then i dont think League will introduce a new key binding just to detonate traps
I don't think traps are unbalanced because the enemies can miss it. It's just a part of the powerbudget, and that's why Riot like small traps and not big ones (Yes, there are big ones like Teemo or Shaco, but they have been a lot of powerbudget removed in that ones compared to old days). The thing are Trap-Builds, like Teemo Liandry's Anguish + Demonic Embrace; but well, Trap-Builds are a choice so stop doing that or embrace it lol. Or maybe give Shaco more build versatility than full Ap trap or Ad Assasin, like Teemo can go other Ap items without making mushrooms useless in damage.
Shaco initself is a champ thats a pain to deal with. Shrooms are effektive if the enemy is too stupid to get vision removal or if you barricade yourself somwhere like the enemy jungle or if you switch styles mid game multiple times (territory creation, objective control and push.
As a Jhin top player i assure you that the traps are usefull. In fact they are the reason why this pick is viable. You need way more vision to avoid ganks with the lane being so large and you absolutly need their enormous damage to kill a melee champion. It's an additionnal challenge to figure out a way to make the enemy walk into your trap but it's so rewarding when clever positionning and thinking ahead allow you to turn a gank and sometimes get two kills. It's also the most fun ever I had in this game.
whenever i lose my soul and play teemo, the most rewarding thing is by far placing traps
i also played a lot of caitlyn and play shaco often in urf
placing traps is always rewarding and it feels great watching the enemy fall into the trap
in my opinion we need more of them with some interesting mechanic/interaction like Jhin's
I was waiting for you to make a video about traps !
As someone enjoying to play jhin quite a lot i personaly really like his traps. It's very helpful to be able to block of possible entry routes the enemy Assassin might take to blast me form 100 to 0 in a second and instead routing him down and Yelling 4 right in his face or you know just run away.
I also think that for most of those Champions traps are a very useful part of their kit. As you already said traps are hit or miss but as you mentioned thats true for all skill shots and a bunch of other abilities as well. in the end that comes down to game knowledge and skill expression.
Maybe i just dont play high enough but in my games traps can be used very effectively.
The aspect that is most undervalued about traps is that they buy you time. Setting up a spread out minefield before a baron play forces the enemy team to slowly clear the mushrooms or risk losing half of their hp before an important fight. What balances the noxious trap in that regard is that Teemo is a bad meme champion without a real place and what amounts to basically 2 spells. If you want to check out some useful implementations of traps, maybe look at Dotas Templar Assassin or Techies heroes. Also having both Shaco and Teemo on a team can get really annoying for the enemy team, forcing them to get 2-3 sweepers and using lots of gold on pinks to compensate for the lack of active vision. Overall I have always been a fan of good trapping gameplay. Good trapping can make you feel like a genius.
Teemo main (NA SwaggyMcFlabby) here and gotta say it is always sad when the enemy team has 4 sweepers and someone buys a pink ward before dragon rendering my setup practically useless.
It happens in the vast majority of my Diamond games.
Love the triple Viego at the beginning lol
."Imagine if vex's personal space had a 2 second charge up time"
-Looks over at Neeko ult. 1.25 second charge, 1.25 second stun = same time has entire zonyas, meaning if you zonyas just before you stun, enemy team will just wait and one shot you once zonyas ends.
There was / is ? a champion with manually activated traps in DOTA the WCIII map mod Defense of the Ancients / All stars. They are the Goblin Techies and I loved them. In that format however you had to hotkey every 'batch' of traps (in this case explosives that can not be seen by the enemy). I'd do like 1 2 3 for the first lane or the closest in top, mid bot and then 4 5 6 , 7 8 9 and you had to press like 4,D .... It would be hard to put that into Leagues format. Zyra seeds are somewhere between a Trap and an ability and are also inert unless activated. Maybe something like that with a much larger activation range.
Imo the most broken "traps" are maokai's saplings. Especially when it was ap Mao support meta. You couldn't basically disarm it without getting to 0 HP and at the same time fast enough to get to the objective. And the fact that in the time you were disarming the sapling he could just throw another was just impossible to deal with.
Sapling has huge manacost, to do semi decent damage u have to throw it into the bush, and he has to build AP to make them function somewhat. If he goes AP he is as fragile as a nidda. His ccs are slow and short range. Only redeeming quality is the passive heal and the saplings (that are turbonerfed constantly)
Honestly it is great for when as Teemo someone steps on a shroom you placed long ago and forgotten about and dies then you tell in all chat how you forgot about that shroom being there and watch them get salty over random chance
Jhin's traps are imo the best in the game and the most balanced, and that's because their damage is completely avoidable, enemies have plenty of time to avoid the explosion so they aren't taking damage for free. The traps are used for way more valuable things than dealing damage, if they do get to hit an enemy it's just a bonus.
1. They are mainly used to provide vision in key spots, and also alert when invisible enemies walk on them.
2. They can be thrown to reset your reload timer, so you can walk with your 4th shot ready for action.
3. They mark enemies who step on it allowing you to root them with W.
4. They slow down enemies, giving you extra time to escape, chase or assist your teammates.