I have pretty much the same build, 5600x, 32 gb 3200mhz ram, but 6700xt and i'm getting higher frames at 1080p max, is something bottlenecking your system? Also at places, game is using about 10gb VRAM, so could that be causing the stutter as well?
@@basabbag7714 higher the settings you run, the more hdd is gonna become a issue, I first tried to run it off my 2*2tb raid 0 hdd but it stutters even on that, no issues after shifting it to 970 evo plus.
People that have their operating system installed on the HDD have to take note that their experience will be way worse as the OS will have read and write interrupts and calls randomly during gameplay. Similar setup with OS installed on a ssd and the game on a HDD, but some newish faster and bigger HDD with more cache will have a better experience.
People who still use HDD for their OS should buy a cheap SSD for their OS immediately instead of buying a $60 game, let alone playing the game with a HDD with the OS inside.
@@dustojnikhummer I picked up a (albeit, DRAM-less) 1 TB NVMe SSD capable of 5 GB/s for $45 USD about two months ago. If you're not writing to it heavily, the speeds are fine, and even when the speeds do inevitably fall it's never to unacceptable levels - at worst, I've seen it perform similarly to a SATA III SSD, which for my uses is still just fine. Silicon Power UD90
The stuttering which is observable even with an SSD seems to be down to the game's texture setting. I was getting awful stuttering and frametime variation with the textures on high or very high, despite using an 11GB card at 1440p and having the game installed on a 990 Pro. Turning the textures down to medium completely solved it and it's been buttery smooth ever since. I've seen similar reports from other people on Reddit.
I tried it with RTX 2080Ti 11GB at 4K60 DLSS Quality (1440p internal) with RT. High Textures work but you need at least SATA SSD and turning down all other settings to High (Very High has only little perceivable difference really). This way you will spare some VRAM room for it to stream high quality assets, remember that the game is built around constant asset streaming to PS5 GPU. Also try restarting the game and close any capturing software (or anything else that uses the GPU) if it still stutters, the game will eat any VRAM it sees.
It's amazing to that hard drives are now "spinning rust." Its a wonder of technology, if now outdated, with massive technical and scientific achievements powering them. Its amazing how precise it has to be, if the head of a spinning drive was the size of a 747, it would have to be flying at 5 feet off the platter to read the magnetic 1s and 0s to get your data. That's a marvel not to be sneezed at. Not that solid state isn't better, but sometimes its useful to look down and see the giant you're standing on too.
Those cutscene stutters are wild on a hard drive. Nice work on testing this game. Given how inexpensive SSDs are currently, now's a good time as any to buy one.
I knew you'd post this! So glad you did... this is my favourite game series of all time. I was playing this yesterday after it released, with the FPS uncapped, I saw 200FPS, which I never thought I’d see a R & C game ever run at.
Given that the PS5 runs 60 FPS at 1600-1800p with 16 gigs of shared memory, I don't think your memory usage is that rare (for 2160p or 1440p, if that's at 1080p it's certainly worrying). It makes sense that games developed for consoles with 16 GB will certainly aim for more than 8 GB...
@@J_Echoes you’re absolutely right, I’d expect it to use that much at 1440p or 4k… but I have a 1080p monitor. hence my surprise at the high utilisation
@@beanbag8020 Oh here we go again... I hope it's allocating 14 GB it does not actually need just because it has them, which wouldn't be that bad. If it can't run at 1080p Ultra with 10-12 GB or so I'm wondering what people will need for 2160p lol.
@@J_Echoes oh yeah I think you’re right, it was probably only utilising that. I was just going off of the MSI afterburner overlay, thanks for correcting me
The term "spinning rust" definitely describes my experience before getting a sata ssd early this year. It was so bad that I downgraded to Windows 7 in 2022 just for the sake of my pc booting up in less than 10 minutes. It... only went down to 6 or so, but it was more usable. Once I got my ssd, I upgraded to Windows 10 and, eventually, 11, and the experience is superb. I'm not using anything crazy either. While it's true that I don't play any of the latest games (mostly because I have intel HD syndrome), I have seen genuine improvements in both loading and stuttering, with the latter being less present than with the spinning rust. Also, rivatuner is the best thing ever. I use it to cap games to 30fps (again, intel HD syndrome) and that helps a lot when I can't get 60 (99% of the time). Those who don't have it on their pc should know that it comes with msi afterburner and, they should go download it right now. Anyways. This was a great pain showcase.
@@LTNetjak I don't even wanna imagine the fortune it must've costed back then. Still, the 1TB backup is a genius idea. At the very least when I upgraded it was affordable enough for me to get a 512 GB drive, which is the same as the ever spinning rust platter. Just like you, I never looked back since, now only using it to store random stuff like backups or something. I'm even thinking of unplugging it outright because of how intermitent its operation is. The idea of my pc sometimes making more noise out of absolutely nowhere at any given time is starting to get a little annoying. I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be harmful to any extent, but could it be that my pc still ises it for stuff like a page file or temp files, hence it spinning up sometimes? Or is it just consuming power for no good reason? Regardless, 慣性ドリフト for ya. Keep loading maps in 2 seconds XD.
Definitely some early day wobbles, and I’ve been playing at 1440p with RT on and a 75FPS cap set in Nvidia settings (12600k, 3070, 2x16GB DDR5-5200, 980 Pro SSD). But i also trust Nixxes and Insomniac to be able to improve it, and am just so thrilled to see a childhood favorite series get a PC native port.
@@imo098765 im playing with 3070. Vrma isn't problem dude. Optimize your settings. As per ur needs. Im on high and very high settings. Im fucking enjoying this game. Its so good looking 😊
@@saricubra2867 it depends on the use case For cheap general purpose storage (including legacy games), it's fantastic Where I live, internet is so bad that downloading GTA V for example takes 2 days. Playing it off the HDD aint perfect but it works. Worst case scenario I can shimmy games around between my HDD and SSD far faster than I could if I would just download it
I'm so used to using HDDs, that I still use them as drives for all my games to this day, I don't mind waiting a few more seconds for a game to load, with maybe a few exceptions in games having real issues.
@@roqeyt3566 Even playing older games, that hard disk will die with the amount of times those platters and head&write heads work. CSGO is like dozens of GB and it's a night&day difference between a hard drive and a SATA SSD.
most likely because it wasnt using 100% of the gpu or cpu and directstorage uses them to pull from storage but they arent as busy when its capped at 60fps
I've given up on hard drives for daily use as I got tired of the lack of performance and the once in a blue moon bit rot. A big plus is that SSDs don't need to be replaced every 15k to 20k hours unlike most hard drives.
As much as i appreciate dedicated HDD testing for this game, i have to point out one thing. Your tested HDD was, to put it bluntly, a complete garbage tier. The emphasis goes to its cache size (or "buffer size"). Most HDD's in past 5+ years have at least 64mb of cache and your HDD had only 16mb, most common amount is 128mb for ~2TB hard disks and many good HDD's has 256mb at 4TB+ of storage. Not saying that testing old and slow hdd is bad, but i think you should have specified it in your tittle. PS. for anyone wondering whats cache or buffer for HDD's, its basically RAM for HDD, the bigger it is the less data hdd has to access and switch around using its actual platter, mechanical storage. Obviously using decent HDD wont make as big of a difference as using any SSD, but im sure Iceberg tech and many others would be surprised how playable and how comparable games runs on decent HDD (ofc using as dedicated drive while running windows on ssd).
The ST500DM002-1BD142 was released in 2011 so it's quite old. At least it predates SMR so it should still be CMR and not SMR garbage like most Barracuda's have been for years, including later ST500DM002 models according to some sources.
@@Pasi123 I personally never trusted Seagate because of their known reliability issues. You can find that all western digital Gold drives are CMR and have great amounts of cache with other goodies like 7200RPM, then there is WD red 7200rpm CMR lineup which is another decent choice something like 4tb WD4003FFBX 117€ or 2tb WD2002FFSX 77€ although that one has "only" 64mb of cache, where's 4TB variant packs 256mb. While ST500DM002-1BD142 is CMR it is really an outdated and slow drive, which is inferior in almost every way comparing to good today's options and does not reflect modern hdd capabilities, at least in my opinion.
they did a great job with optimisation, Insomniac and Nixxes are pretty great obviously a hard drive isn't recommended but it's not like they were completely ignored
I recently downloaded Detroit Become Human, had stutters on HDD. Moving the game to the SSD resulted in a smooth 60fps experience. I think age of the HDD is fading.
it's not that the game can't run on anything other than the ps5's ssd. it's that the transition animations were made to match the loading times of the ps5.
your SN770 could be faster B550 doesnt have Gen 4 lanes so yours is running at Gen 3 speeds. that's why its capping out around 3000mb/s instead of getting closer to the rated 5000mb/s your OS drive is Gen3. put it in an m.2 slot wired to the chipset. put the SN770 in the top slot for Gen4 lanes straight from the CPU
Been using a single rusty drive for 10 years and i learned 1 thing - cache can never compensate for rotation speed. Being limited to sata for the near future i did upgrade to an ssd for games (OS has been stored on a 850 evo since 2017). GTA 4 still has loading issues though, but other games improved at least a bit.
Got a free 1tb 7200rpm hdd from my neighbors pc and I put it into my brother's computer so he could play more games. After wiping and re-formatting, it has surprisingly worked fantasticly on any game thrown at it. For a free hdd, that's awesome.
my family members think its a waste of money that paid for a SSD for my ps5 and SSD for my gaming pc, reasons like this i dont think i wasted it. my mother and sister and i play gta online on separate consoles and sadly they are still on ps4 since they either dont have enough money or is not interesting in upgrading so i still play the ps4 version of gta 5 with them in invite only and i notice i pop in quick and it takes them almost a damn 3 minutes to load, i think the SSD investments were worth it.
If you have the RAM, I feel it'd be nice if the game anticipates what's coming next and pre-loads as much as it can into RAM ahead of time. Say if you have 64gb or more RAM, you could have entire areas data already in RAM. It can load the data from the HDD in the background during gameplay. Like a sort of HDD mode. As it sits in reality however, at least you can play it on a HDD.
This smells much more to totally unoptimized game, and the HDD "problem" is kinda a excuse to that laziness of developers, tested on a 256GB 3500/1500 NVME, on a 512GB 5500/3500 NVME, and a 1TB Sata SSD 550/450, and all of them have same stutter issue, also tested on a 3TB 256MB cache HDD, and well, it gets really bad, but after some time the game got stable...
i wonder how is it that putting a cap on framerate, which should normally be a metric given by the performance of other components suddently makes a loading faster where it's clear that the bottleneck is the hdd
your ssd can go faster than that the sn770 can do upto 5150mb/s but as it looks liek you have it in the second m.2 slot it will be limited to pcie 3.0 which tops out at the speeds you showed maybe swap around your ssds so the pcie 4 drive can get its full speed.
@@JBrinx18 yeah his speeds are just the limit of a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection and the crystal disk mark screen shows its running in PCIe 3.0 speeds. I had the same problem with my SN850 as I was running a ryzen 5 2600 so no PCIe 4 but I have now upgraded to a 5700x and a B550 board and get the full speeds now and I know my board and every b550 board I looked at the second slot only every does 3.0 speeds.
@@brett9000 you both are wrong about NVMe SSD Surely you have watched a comparison video of Loading Time of Open World game like GTA V in SATA SSD vs NVMe SSD, they both almost identical. Because video game assets loading are always loaded in fixed amount of Chunks, so it doesn't matter if you use SATA SSD or NVMe SSD PCIe Gen 3 or 4 or 5, the loading time almost the same. That is, until PlayStation 5 introduced DirectStorage API which allows the GPU to communicate directly with SSD without waiting for request from CPU or RAM. And Microsoft also released DirectStorage but as stand-alone download. Which means you might not see it in Windows update. Download it by yourself. This game however, make use of that DirectStorage API and this channel simply didn't have it installed in the system. And then -Only Then, you will eventually see the difference between loading time of NVMe SSD in PCIe Gen 3, 4, 5 This entire video will be a joke if you have RTX 4090 & PCIe Gen 5 SSD and NOT installing Microsoft DirectStorage in comparison to PlayStation 5 which has it permanently enabled by default.
@@ClayWheeler You. Don't. Install. DirectStorage! It's already bundled with DX12. Please, give a link to where someone could download the DS redistributable. DirectStorage is ALREADY being used here since he's using a 3070 and the correct version of Windows. Also your comment has nothing to do with theirs. They're right, his SSD is limited by PCIe 3.0 x4 speeds by his cristal disk mark benchmark.
Though I'm still using my HDD for games 4:11 have you taken a look at NVMe drive prices, there was a decent drop in May and yet again beginning of the month. Many 2TB NVMe drives now have a price of 100-130€.
yep, ssd storage is finally affordable to the point hdds lost all their meaning. i bought a 2tb sata ssd the other day to replace an old HDD and it was something like 70 dollars. nvme is a bit more expensive, but not that far off either. iirc my last 2tb nvme i bought was around 110 bucks.
@@GraveUypo Just for external media I'm not sure if it's the go-to option. What I read was, though I don't remember when and where, you should plugin an SSD into power at least once a year?
@@GraveUypo Yep bought a 2TB samsung 9800 Pro on prime day for $98. Also don't forget about usb 3.2 external SSD which run at about 1050mb/s which is double the speed of sata SSD. Those runs games really well.
1:05 That's the psuedo SLC _buffer_ filling up and has nothing to do with any RAM _cache_ , thats for storing lookup data. You write to a _buffer_ and read from a _cache_
It's always insane to see how "cheaper" m.2 drives just suck after time, if you view the cheap kingston m.2s they literally go down to ssd speeds once filled over 90%
I'd generally recommend that you over provision any ssd to make 10% of the drive just unusable. It prevents stuff like that. It'll also help keep the drive in good shape. While a hard drive at 100% capacity might be slow, it doesn't damage the drive like an ssd does
Bought an SSD for this and few other games like upcoming Baldur's Gate 3 and Cyperpunk 2077 and since many other games are gonna utilize SSDs better than HDDs, it was time for an upgrade. Note: My HDD is oooooold. From 2014 if not older.
dude I think your SN770 WD SSD is be bottlenecked in a GEN 3 Slot... or something else restricting it... Even without the DRAM Cache the HBM should still allow for faster speeds than your benchmarks show
the HDD you use is really old, the newer HDD can reach 200MB/s, although ofc its slow compared to even an SATA SSD. Anyway, i dont think anyone crazy enough to try this game on a RAID HDD lol
I think this just shows that there is nothing special about the SSD on the PS5 apart from it being used. you can see on the hard drive where a Loading screen is that is basically reduced down
@@WayStedYou PS5 is variable resolution and the game is hard coded. It's also using lower textures and settings. No matter which way they try and spin it. The works flawlessly on a hdd
@@mgDuckyyy🤦🏾♂️ Did you not just see the damn frame dips and stutter the game just had. You guys keep spewing this nonsense but the video basically shows pcs right now aren't even capable of loading textures, the world, and etc seem less like the ps5.
Ratchet & Clank is over 2 years old now on ps5! Not only that, but pc is using DirectStorage. Also, Ps5 is 4k30fps/40fps with ray tracing, 1620p - 1800p 60fps, 1080p - 1440p 60fps with ray tracing! Try having those settings on a pc with no directstorage and a HDD! This is what Insomniac meant!
Generally there's 3 types of gamers on PC. The PC Elitists and rich kids, who will spend an absolute fortune on flashy PC parts and components. They will grab 2x 4TB NVMe Gen 4/Gen5 SSD's, to go alongside that $1500 GPU they've just bought (entirely for thier ego and posing purposes). They will also flaunt all of that overly expensive gear that they bought, whenever possible. Then there are the typical and common PC gamers, that will likely have a fairly modest gaming setup. Which will in all likely good, be specced relatively close to the performance of the current consoles. Storage wise they will likely to have in their system a 500GB to 2TB SSD (lGen 3 NVMe and/or a SATA III SSD ) and may also have a moderately sized HDD or two in thier system (500MB - 2TB).They'll use that HDD space for bulk storage and possibly for some of the lesser demanding titles (Older games, Indie titles and AA games). Then there are the tightfisted skinflints and the "too poor for PC" gamers that really should either switch over to console or delve into thier pockets more frequently. They often will try to hang on to any old antiquated old tech that they own and for as long as they humanly can. They likely bought most of thier cheap ass unbranded parts off of EBay and will highly likely just have a crusty old HDD in thier system for gaming. I guarantee they'll also will be gaming in just 1080p/720p (med/low settings) on an equally crusty old unbranded 1080p 60Hz display. It's really damn hard to get them to actually budge and delve into thier pocket, even for a $40 SSD. It's this set of guys that just hold back gaming (alongside the equally stubborn last gen console hanger on's).
@@fafski1199 That last group of PC gamers dont hold back gaming. Its always consoles and the money it makes. PC you get left behind, consoles manufacturers and publishers arent going to give up 100s of millions in revenue by not supporting last gen with big titles until they can make up enough money on current gen machines If a $60 game sells to 2mil last gen consoles of which there are over 160mil units sold. Thats $120mil from only 1.25% of units
I wonder if there would be an improvement on a newer HDD. My Hard Drive transfers data much faster... About twice the speed. Gold 12TB Release date 2017. 1gb transfer 5 paces. SEQ1M Q8TW Read: 220.87 MB/s Write: 223.42 MB/s SEQ1M Q1T1 Read: 218.21 MB/s Write 220.52 MB/s RND4k Q32T1: Read: 2.96 MB/s Write: 5.12 MB/s RND4k Q1T1: 1.22 MB/s Write: 4.46 MB/S
im running at 1440p high on a RTX 3060 ti, 32 gb of ram and a sabrent nvme, and i5 12400 and the game will freeze for several minutes during cutscenes.
1:50 - you can thank nvidia for making you pay £500 for the privilege of stuttery gameplay two years after release by being stingy with VRAM , and making you pay £500 now for the card they should have released back then (4060ti 16GB) /tangent Looking forwards to playing this in a few months time , when the obligatory patches have been made and released - I must admit nixxes have done well to have the game running on a hard drive as well as it does. I'd have expected much worse loading times and even crashes!
not really. the only reason it can be done now on HDD is because of new technology called Direct Storage. and they said the seamless loading was only possible on the pS5 at the time (2 years ago). obviously thats still true as the hdd still struggles by comparison and would be awful without Direct Storage
there is support, you have to plug a ps5 controller in and it will do all the special features it did on ps5. been using it myself and it is wonderful.
I mean at this point if you are able to buy a 60$ game, then you should be able to buy an SSD. I bought my 1TB nvme SDD for less than the price of a AAA game. SSDs are getting cheaper by the day
First, it's _last of us_ making it impossible to run with less than 16gb vram. Now, rift apart is basically unplayable if you dont give it its own ssd. Sure seems like sony is trying to push ps5 sales by making their pc ports as trash as possible.
For starters most PC players nowadays use SSD. And it seems to run fine with either M.2 or Sata SSD's. And from the video HDD actually works fine for the most part aswell. Those few 5 seconds you save from that one scene in the game isn't that big of a deal. It shows you that Sony was overhyping the need for the SSD and that most games still run fine on HDD if your willing to wait a few extra seconds for the game to load. Last of US that was just a horrible port.
Bah! My bad, I forgot that the second M.2 slot is Gen 3 only.
Also forgot to mention, the game is running at 1080 High with no RT.
I have pretty much the same build, 5600x, 32 gb 3200mhz ram, but 6700xt and i'm getting higher frames at 1080p max, is something bottlenecking your system? Also at places, game is using about 10gb VRAM, so could that be causing the stutter as well?
Is it possible to test with a sata ssd?
@@ManuSaraswat , yes this game does demands high VRAM to run smoothly. I am using a 3070 and a mechanical drive and its a stutter mess for me.
@@basabbag7714 higher the settings you run, the more hdd is gonna become a issue, I first tried to run it off my 2*2tb raid 0 hdd but it stutters even on that, no issues after shifting it to 970 evo plus.
Get yourself a 6800
love that somebody tested this and i really love that you kept it short and sweet. truly one of my fav tech/gaming channels on YT
I mean df did this as well, it's not great and clearly not a good option.
People that have their operating system installed on the HDD have to take note that their experience will be way worse as the OS will have read and write interrupts and calls randomly during gameplay.
Similar setup with OS installed on a ssd and the game on a HDD, but some newish faster and bigger HDD with more cache will have a better experience.
People who still use HDD for their OS should buy a cheap SSD for their OS immediately instead of buying a $60 game, let alone playing the game with a HDD with the OS inside.
@@Javier64691 Yeah 240GB SSDs are what, 15 bucks?
@@dustojnikhummer I picked up a (albeit, DRAM-less) 1 TB NVMe SSD capable of 5 GB/s for $45 USD about two months ago. If you're not writing to it heavily, the speeds are fine, and even when the speeds do inevitably fall it's never to unacceptable levels - at worst, I've seen it perform similarly to a SATA III SSD, which for my uses is still just fine. Silicon Power UD90
@@Javier64691 Yeah man, priorities. The days of OS being stored on HDDs are way overdue, I literally thought everyone felt the same since like 2016.
most games stutter for me even on Windows on SSD and games on hdd, soo now i dont even use an hdd for gaming at all
The stuttering which is observable even with an SSD seems to be down to the game's texture setting. I was getting awful stuttering and frametime variation with the textures on high or very high, despite using an 11GB card at 1440p and having the game installed on a 990 Pro. Turning the textures down to medium completely solved it and it's been buttery smooth ever since. I've seen similar reports from other people on Reddit.
looks like game needs some tweaking
11gbs? So an old gpu at a resolution that’s too high for it?
I tried it with RTX 2080Ti 11GB at 4K60 DLSS Quality (1440p internal) with RT. High Textures work but you need at least SATA SSD and turning down all other settings to High (Very High has only little perceivable difference really). This way you will spare some VRAM room for it to stream high quality assets, remember that the game is built around constant asset streaming to PS5 GPU. Also try restarting the game and close any capturing software (or anything else that uses the GPU) if it still stutters, the game will eat any VRAM it sees.
Also, the game looks to be software limited in purpose
@@salsa83 bruh
Keep up the great work good sir!
It's amazing to that hard drives are now "spinning rust." Its a wonder of technology, if now outdated, with massive technical and scientific achievements powering them. Its amazing how precise it has to be, if the head of a spinning drive was the size of a 747, it would have to be flying at 5 feet off the platter to read the magnetic 1s and 0s to get your data. That's a marvel not to be sneezed at.
Not that solid state isn't better, but sometimes its useful to look down and see the giant you're standing on too.
Those cutscene stutters are wild on a hard drive. Nice work on testing this game. Given how inexpensive SSDs are currently, now's a good time as any to buy one.
Mine freezes for several minutes on NVME
SSD is now for gaming next gen games
Ratchet switching dimensions on an SSD: That was fast!
Ratchet switching dimensions on an HDD: Are we there yet? I'm gonna be sick!
I knew you'd post this! So glad you did... this is my favourite game series of all time. I was playing this yesterday after it released, with the FPS uncapped, I saw 200FPS, which I never thought I’d see a R & C game ever run at.
Given that the PS5 runs 60 FPS at 1600-1800p with 16 gigs of shared memory, I don't think your memory usage is that rare (for 2160p or 1440p, if that's at 1080p it's certainly worrying).
It makes sense that games developed for consoles with 16 GB will certainly aim for more than 8 GB...
@@J_Echoes you’re absolutely right, I’d expect it to use that much at 1440p or 4k… but I have a 1080p monitor. hence my surprise at the high utilisation
@@beanbag8020 Oh here we go again... I hope it's allocating 14 GB it does not actually need just because it has them, which wouldn't be that bad. If it can't run at 1080p Ultra with 10-12 GB or so I'm wondering what people will need for 2160p lol.
@@J_Echoes oh yeah I think you’re right, it was probably only utilising that. I was just going off of the MSI afterburner overlay, thanks for correcting me
@@beanbag8020 NP, enjoy your game! It'll be a while until I get it but it looks like it'll be awesome :D
The term "spinning rust" definitely describes my experience before getting a sata ssd early this year. It was so bad that I downgraded to Windows 7 in 2022 just for the sake of my pc booting up in less than 10 minutes. It... only went down to 6 or so, but it was more usable. Once I got my ssd, I upgraded to Windows 10 and, eventually, 11, and the experience is superb. I'm not using anything crazy either. While it's true that I don't play any of the latest games (mostly because I have intel HD syndrome), I have seen genuine improvements in both loading and stuttering, with the latter being less present than with the spinning rust. Also, rivatuner is the best thing ever. I use it to cap games to 30fps (again, intel HD syndrome) and that helps a lot when I can't get 60 (99% of the time). Those who don't have it on their pc should know that it comes with msi afterburner and, they should go download it right now. Anyways. This was a great pain showcase.
@@LTNetjak I don't even wanna imagine the fortune it must've costed back then. Still, the 1TB backup is a genius idea. At the very least when I upgraded it was affordable enough for me to get a 512 GB drive, which is the same as the ever spinning rust platter. Just like you, I never looked back since, now only using it to store random stuff like backups or something. I'm even thinking of unplugging it outright because of how intermitent its operation is. The idea of my pc sometimes making more noise out of absolutely nowhere at any given time is starting to get a little annoying.
I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be harmful to any extent, but could it be that my pc still ises it for stuff like a page file or temp files, hence it spinning up sometimes? Or is it just consuming power for no good reason?
Regardless, 慣性ドリフト for ya. Keep loading maps in 2 seconds XD.
3:09 interesting to see that this is indeed a hidden loading screen
that's fairly obvious though. the whole animation is a hidden loading screen.
The same when hitting the crystals and the screen flashes, so you cant see the rest of the world loading in
Definitely some early day wobbles, and I’ve been playing at 1440p with RT on and a 75FPS cap set in Nvidia settings (12600k, 3070, 2x16GB DDR5-5200, 980 Pro SSD). But i also trust Nixxes and Insomniac to be able to improve it, and am just so thrilled to see a childhood favorite series get a PC native port.
Are you using dlss because I noticed the 3070 runs out of VRAM during the transition sequence and caused some horrible stutter playing it
@@imo098765 im playing with 3070. Vrma isn't problem dude. Optimize your settings. As per ur needs. Im on high and very high settings. Im fucking enjoying this game. Its so good looking 😊
It's like the one thing from my childhood that hasn't been ruined or simply gone away
Spinny boys getting some well deserved love!
They still suck (unless you use them for a lot of backup files).
@@saricubra2867 it depends on the use case
For cheap general purpose storage (including legacy games), it's fantastic
Where I live, internet is so bad that downloading GTA V for example takes 2 days. Playing it off the HDD aint perfect but it works. Worst case scenario I can shimmy games around between my HDD and SSD far faster than I could if I would just download it
I'm so used to using HDDs, that I still use them as drives for all my games to this day, I don't mind waiting a few more seconds for a game to load, with maybe a few exceptions in games having real issues.
@@roqeyt3566 Even playing older games, that hard disk will die with the amount of times those platters and head&write heads work.
CSGO is like dozens of GB and it's a night&day difference between a hard drive and a SATA SSD.
*SSD/NVMe with valuable data on it after a year:* _"My time has come."_
*Old spinning rust with a backup:* _["sarcastically surprised Kirk" meme]_
Wonder if it ran better with vsync because you were already running the game before and data was in memory.
No, the game was exited between test runs, and the RTSS footage was captured the day after the rest.
most likely because it wasnt using 100% of the gpu or cpu and directstorage uses them to pull from storage but they arent as busy when its capped at 60fps
most likely more frames = more stuff to load in quicker time, so locking fps from 100+ to 60 is very helpful for slower drives
I've given up on hard drives for daily use as I got tired of the lack of performance and the once in a blue moon bit rot. A big plus is that SSDs don't need to be replaced every 15k to 20k hours unlike most hard drives.
As much as i appreciate dedicated HDD testing for this game, i have to point out one thing. Your tested HDD was, to put it bluntly, a complete garbage tier. The emphasis goes to its cache size (or "buffer size"). Most HDD's in past 5+ years have at least 64mb of cache and your HDD had only 16mb, most common amount is 128mb for ~2TB hard disks and many good HDD's has 256mb at 4TB+ of storage.
Not saying that testing old and slow hdd is bad, but i think you should have specified it in your tittle.
PS. for anyone wondering whats cache or buffer for HDD's, its basically RAM for HDD, the bigger it is the less data hdd has to access and switch around using its actual platter, mechanical storage. Obviously using decent HDD wont make as big of a difference as using any SSD, but im sure Iceberg tech and many others would be surprised how playable and how comparable games runs on decent HDD (ofc using as dedicated drive while running windows on ssd).
The ST500DM002-1BD142 was released in 2011 so it's quite old. At least it predates SMR so it should still be CMR and not SMR garbage like most Barracuda's have been for years, including later ST500DM002 models according to some sources.
@@Pasi123 I personally never trusted Seagate because of their known reliability issues.
You can find that all western digital Gold drives are CMR and have great amounts of cache with other goodies like 7200RPM, then there is WD red 7200rpm CMR lineup which is another decent choice something like 4tb WD4003FFBX 117€ or 2tb WD2002FFSX 77€ although that one has "only" 64mb of cache, where's 4TB variant packs 256mb.
While ST500DM002-1BD142 is CMR it is really an outdated and slow drive, which is inferior in almost every way comparing to good today's options and does not reflect modern hdd capabilities, at least in my opinion.
3:16 Wow, the loading screen where the HDD goes in is hidden very well so it doesn't affect the cinematics.
they did a great job with optimisation, Insomniac and Nixxes are pretty great
obviously a hard drive isn't recommended but it's not like they were completely ignored
I recently downloaded Detroit Become Human, had stutters on HDD. Moving the game to the SSD resulted in a smooth 60fps experience. I think age of the HDD is fading.
it's not that the game can't run on anything other than the ps5's ssd. it's that the transition animations were made to match the loading times of the ps5.
Damn you're early, i'm about to try this myself haha. Love the videos mate, keep it up.
Very impressive breakdown! This is very interesting. Thank you for all your hard work.
5 Min not-shorts are well better than "shorts"✌
your SN770 could be faster
B550 doesnt have Gen 4 lanes so yours is running at Gen 3 speeds. that's why its capping out around 3000mb/s instead of getting closer to the rated 5000mb/s
your OS drive is Gen3. put it in an m.2 slot wired to the chipset. put the SN770 in the top slot for Gen4 lanes straight from the CPU
However the game uses around 1 to 1.7 GB/s so which is why a gen 3,4 and 5 SSD loads the game at the same time on a AM5 board
Thank you for making the video I didn't know I wanted
Something interesting is that the game HDD consumes more ram + more vram than the ssd in similar scenes
ah yes, the 500gb seagate barracuda drive, the same kind still spinning away in my PC. I have a few SSD's, but the HDD still kicking it
Been using a single rusty drive for 10 years and i learned 1 thing - cache can never compensate for rotation speed. Being limited to sata for the near future i did upgrade to an ssd for games (OS has been stored on a 850 evo since 2017). GTA 4 still has loading issues though, but other games improved at least a bit.
Got a free 1tb 7200rpm hdd from my neighbors pc and I put it into my brother's computer so he could play more games. After wiping and re-formatting, it has surprisingly worked fantasticly on any game thrown at it. For a free hdd, that's awesome.
my family members think its a waste of money that paid for a SSD for my ps5 and SSD for my gaming pc, reasons like this i dont think i wasted it. my mother and sister and i play gta online on separate consoles and sadly they are still on ps4 since they either dont have enough money or is not interesting in upgrading so i still play the ps4 version of gta 5 with them in invite only and i notice i pop in quick and it takes them almost a damn 3 minutes to load, i think the SSD investments were worth it.
If you have the RAM, I feel it'd be nice if the game anticipates what's coming next and pre-loads as much as it can into RAM ahead of time. Say if you have 64gb or more RAM, you could have entire areas data already in RAM. It can load the data from the HDD in the background during gameplay. Like a sort of HDD mode. As it sits in reality however, at least you can play it on a HDD.
This smells much more to totally unoptimized game, and the HDD "problem" is kinda a excuse to that laziness of developers, tested on a 256GB 3500/1500 NVME, on a 512GB 5500/3500 NVME, and a 1TB Sata SSD 550/450, and all of them have same stutter issue, also tested on a 3TB 256MB cache HDD, and well, it gets really bad, but after some time the game got stable...
I'd wait for patches before testing this. I bet they'll optimize it a bit further.
i wonder how is it that putting a cap on framerate, which should normally be a metric given by the performance of other components suddently makes a loading faster where it's clear that the bottleneck is the hdd
It runs smoothly on my rig and it's installed on my 7200rpm WD HDD
Man I had totally forgotten I was supposed to be hyped for this release and play it on launch 💀
your ssd can go faster than that the sn770 can do upto 5150mb/s but as it looks liek you have it in the second m.2 slot it will be limited to pcie 3.0 which tops out at the speeds you showed maybe swap around your ssds so the pcie 4 drive can get its full speed.
Yep, your speeds a little low, even without the DRAM cache
@@JBrinx18 yeah his speeds are just the limit of a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection and the crystal disk mark screen shows its running in PCIe 3.0 speeds. I had the same problem with my SN850 as I was running a ryzen 5 2600 so no PCIe 4 but I have now upgraded to a 5700x and a B550 board and get the full speeds now and I know my board and every b550 board I looked at the second slot only every does 3.0 speeds.
@@brett9000 you both are wrong about NVMe SSD
Surely you have watched a comparison video of Loading Time of Open World game like GTA V in SATA SSD vs NVMe SSD, they both almost identical.
Because video game assets loading are always loaded in fixed amount of Chunks, so it doesn't matter if you use SATA SSD or NVMe SSD PCIe Gen 3 or 4 or 5, the loading time almost the same.
That is, until PlayStation 5 introduced DirectStorage API which allows the GPU to communicate directly with SSD without waiting for request from CPU or RAM.
And Microsoft also released DirectStorage but as stand-alone download. Which means you might not see it in Windows update. Download it by yourself.
This game however, make use of that DirectStorage API and this channel simply didn't have it installed in the system. And then -Only Then, you will eventually see the difference between loading time of NVMe SSD in PCIe Gen 3, 4, 5
This entire video will be a joke if you have RTX 4090 & PCIe Gen 5 SSD and NOT installing Microsoft DirectStorage in comparison to PlayStation 5 which has it permanently enabled by default.
@@ClayWheeler You. Don't. Install. DirectStorage!
It's already bundled with DX12. Please, give a link to where someone could download the DS redistributable. DirectStorage is ALREADY being used here since he's using a 3070 and the correct version of Windows.
Also your comment has nothing to do with theirs. They're right, his SSD is limited by PCIe 3.0 x4 speeds by his cristal disk mark benchmark.
Though I'm still using my HDD for games 4:11 have you taken a look at NVMe drive prices, there was a decent drop in May and yet again beginning of the month. Many 2TB NVMe drives now have a price of 100-130€.
yep, ssd storage is finally affordable to the point hdds lost all their meaning. i bought a 2tb sata ssd the other day to replace an old HDD and it was something like 70 dollars. nvme is a bit more expensive, but not that far off either. iirc my last 2tb nvme i bought was around 110 bucks.
@@GraveUypo Just for external media I'm not sure if it's the go-to option.
What I read was, though I don't remember when and where, you should plugin an SSD into power at least once a year?
@@GraveUypo Yep bought a 2TB samsung 9800 Pro on prime day for $98. Also don't forget about usb 3.2 external SSD which run at about 1050mb/s which is double the speed of sata SSD. Those runs games really well.
Nice!! Thanks! Sata SSD would be interesting too!
god damn it that's so cool
Clank is the sound of the HDD struggling to load the game.
1:05 That's the psuedo SLC _buffer_ filling up and has nothing to do with any RAM _cache_ , thats for storing lookup data. You write to a _buffer_ and read from a _cache_
That's still extremely impressive for Hard drives
Amazing game structure!
that game looks amazing. i wonder why we don't get sci-fi graphics instead of hyper realistic garbage anymore.
lmao i cant even play 5 minutes without a crash
Cool video:)
Been playing it on a sdcard on my steamdeck games fine
Even when i'm playing world of warships and warthunder on hardisk, i still get stutter and dip, basically poor performance that can cause a headache
It's always insane to see how "cheaper" m.2 drives just suck after time, if you view the cheap kingston m.2s they literally go down to ssd speeds once filled over 90%
kingston has some really good ssds like kc3000
I'd generally recommend that you over provision any ssd to make 10% of the drive just unusable. It prevents stuff like that. It'll also help keep the drive in good shape. While a hard drive at 100% capacity might be slow, it doesn't damage the drive like an ssd does
@@loganricherson pretty sure ssds do that by default, my 1TB 970 evo plus has 930GB usable while the rest is over provisioned
@@ThunderingRoar I know samsung ones do, unless you disable it, but I don't think all of them do by default
isnt your sn770 in the pcie 3.0 slot?
1:17 it says its running at pcie 3.0 x4
Bought an SSD for this and few other games like upcoming Baldur's Gate 3 and Cyperpunk 2077 and since many other games are gonna utilize SSDs better than HDDs, it was time for an upgrade. Note: My HDD is oooooold. From 2014 if not older.
dude I think your SN770 WD SSD is be bottlenecked in a GEN 3 Slot... or something else restricting it... Even without the DRAM Cache the HBM should still allow for faster speeds than your benchmarks show
i still use hard drives for gameing, only my OS drive is a ssd.
i'll just add more ram since DDR4 is gettin' much cheaper now
5 minutes!? No no this won't do...
I use an NVME for the OS, a 2TB SSD for games I play all the time, and then I have 4x4TB external USB3.0's for storage.
the HDD you use is really old, the newer HDD can reach 200MB/s, although ofc its slow compared to even an SATA SSD.
Anyway, i dont think anyone crazy enough to try this game on a RAID HDD lol
I think this just shows that there is nothing special about the SSD on the PS5 apart from it being used. you can see on the hard drive where a Loading screen is that is basically reduced down
Yup. Just a straight up lie that this game is only possible because of ps5 SSD.
really? because the 4090 and 12900k is dropping frames in the loading sections and load slower than the ps5
@@WayStedYou PS5 is variable resolution and the game is hard coded. It's also using lower textures and settings.
No matter which way they try and spin it. The works flawlessly on a hdd
@@mgDuckyyy🤦🏾♂️ Did you not just see the damn frame dips and stutter the game just had. You guys keep spewing this nonsense but the video basically shows pcs right now aren't even capable of loading textures, the world, and etc seem less like the ps5.
Ratchet & Clank is over 2 years old now on ps5!
Not only that, but pc is using DirectStorage.
Also, Ps5 is 4k30fps/40fps with ray tracing, 1620p - 1800p 60fps, 1080p - 1440p 60fps with ray tracing! Try having those settings on a pc with no directstorage and a HDD!
This is what Insomniac meant!
My PC will be in dual driver.
Seagate HDD with M.2 SSD.
i should try this with an old 4200 rpm hard drive pulled out of a 2008 macbook air
So the problem for players is to get an SSD which can be found for as cheap as 20-30$ with 500+GB but it's not a problem to get a 500-1000$ GPU
Generally there's 3 types of gamers on PC. The PC Elitists and rich kids, who will spend an absolute fortune on flashy PC parts and components. They will grab 2x 4TB NVMe Gen 4/Gen5 SSD's, to go alongside that $1500 GPU they've just bought (entirely for thier ego and posing purposes). They will also flaunt all of that overly expensive gear that they bought, whenever possible.
Then there are the typical and common PC gamers, that will likely have a fairly modest gaming setup. Which will in all likely good, be specced relatively close to the performance of the current consoles. Storage wise they will likely to have in their system a 500GB to 2TB SSD (lGen 3 NVMe and/or a SATA III SSD ) and may also have a moderately sized HDD or two in thier system (500MB - 2TB).They'll use that HDD space for bulk storage and possibly for some of the lesser demanding titles (Older games, Indie titles and AA games).
Then there are the tightfisted skinflints and the "too poor for PC" gamers that really should either switch over to console or delve into thier pockets more frequently. They often will try to hang on to any old antiquated old tech that they own and for as long as they humanly can. They likely bought most of thier cheap ass unbranded parts off of EBay and will highly likely just have a crusty old HDD in thier system for gaming. I guarantee they'll also will be gaming in just 1080p/720p (med/low settings) on an equally crusty old unbranded 1080p 60Hz display. It's really damn hard to get them to actually budge and delve into thier pocket, even for a $40 SSD. It's this set of guys that just hold back gaming (alongside the equally stubborn last gen console hanger on's).
@@fafski1199 That last group of PC gamers dont hold back gaming. Its always consoles and the money it makes.
PC you get left behind, consoles manufacturers and publishers arent going to give up 100s of millions in revenue by not supporting last gen with big titles until they can make up enough money on current gen machines
If a $60 game sells to 2mil last gen consoles of which there are over 160mil units sold. Thats $120mil from only 1.25% of units
I HAVE HDD, SO I SHOULD USE VSYNC AND CAP FRAMERATE WITH RIVATUNNER TO BE SMOOTHER, IS THAT WHAT U MEANT AT THE END??
My g is still playing on a HDD
pls make resistance games.. I waiting what next in series..😢
I wonder if there would be an improvement on a newer HDD. My Hard Drive transfers data much faster... About twice the speed.
Gold 12TB Release date 2017.
1gb transfer 5 paces.
SEQ1M Q8TW Read: 220.87 MB/s Write: 223.42 MB/s
SEQ1M Q1T1 Read: 218.21 MB/s Write 220.52 MB/s
RND4k Q32T1: Read: 2.96 MB/s Write: 5.12 MB/s
RND4k Q1T1: 1.22 MB/s Write: 4.46 MB/S
Now try this on floppy drive
i hope you test starfield on an HDD when that comes out D:
You read my mind 🙂
the stutters ruin the point of this game, I'll wait for a patch
I pity people still using HDDs for games and especially OS
im running at 1440p high on a RTX 3060 ti, 32 gb of ram and a sabrent nvme, and i5 12400 and the game will freeze for several minutes during cutscenes.
What about it running in raid 0 on 5 7200RPM hard drives?
that's optimisation
1:50 - you can thank nvidia for making you pay £500 for the privilege of stuttery gameplay two years after release by being stingy with VRAM , and making you pay £500 now for the card they should have released back then (4060ti 16GB) /tangent
Looking forwards to playing this in a few months time , when the obligatory patches have been made and released - I must admit nixxes have done well to have the game running on a hard drive as well as it does. I'd have expected much worse loading times and even crashes!
It's absolutely wild that my 1080ti 11gb has more or comparable vram to modern cards
It's pretty wild also that my 2080ti with an overclock from 2018 beats or trades blows with every Nvidia card under the £600 4070 in 2023
This really makes those fanboy claims about the game only being possible at all on the PS5 SSD look like clownery doesn't it
not really. the only reason it can be done now on HDD is because of new technology called Direct Storage. and they said the seamless loading was only possible on the pS5 at the time (2 years ago). obviously thats still true as the hdd still struggles by comparison and would be awful without Direct Storage
А как же SSD Sata?
No DualSense PS5 controller support either on PC :(
there is support, you have to plug a ps5 controller in and it will do all the special features it did on ps5. been using it myself and it is wonderful.
@@vinylscratch9261 Does it have the DualSense features like haptic feedback and the adaptive triggers? I guess I should have been specific.
@@casedistorted yes, it does. Bit sad about my 3070 struggling
Only works if you connect it by a USB cable
Great game
I wonder how it does on a SSHD. (Does anyone besides me have one? Lol)
Sony Ripped a Fart ()
I mean at this point if you are able to buy a 60$ game, then you should be able to buy an SSD. I bought my 1TB nvme SDD for less than the price of a AAA game. SSDs are getting cheaper by the day
its like $120 for a 2TB 980pro, there is no reason not to get a 1TB nvme at this point
Sata ssd?
it's 2023, there's no excuse not to have an ssd, they're cheap now
First, it's _last of us_ making it impossible to run with less than 16gb vram. Now, rift apart is basically unplayable if you dont give it its own ssd.
Sure seems like sony is trying to push ps5 sales by making their pc ports as trash as possible.
For starters most PC players nowadays use SSD. And it seems to run fine with either M.2 or Sata SSD's. And from the video HDD actually works fine for the most part aswell. Those few 5 seconds you save from that one scene in the game isn't that big of a deal. It shows you that Sony was overhyping the need for the SSD and that most games still run fine on HDD if your willing to wait a few extra seconds for the game to load. Last of US that was just a horrible port.
So PS5 assassdic wasn't magical and unique 😂
Oh oh 🥶 having some similar test, playing Callisto recently.
It’s horrible of HDD 🫤
If you can play recent AAA from SSD, even SATA, do it.