My grandfather lived through the great famine in China, he told me that there were no birds in the sky and you won’t hear any crickets, frogs or cicadas during summer nights because people ate all of them or else they’d starve to death. There were also dead trees everywhere since people started eating the tree barks when they run out of stuff like rats and bugs to eat, those were some harrowing times.
The fact that Mao blamed the famine on an overpopulation of sparrows to disguise his own mistakes led to sparrow hunt events, where millions of birds were killed. That, in turn, created a plague of locusts in the following season that killed the rest of the crops and eradicated other healthy insect populations. So that might also be a factor why your grandfather said he didn't hear any birds or crickets in that time.
@@marcpym5251 Not just sparrows people back then were eating any wild birds they could catch, if they can’t get the birds they’ll just look for nests and eat the eggs, that’s how bad it was. My grandfather said he saw people falling to their death because they were climbing the tallest trees in his town in hopes of finding eggs in the bird’s nest that are too tall for others to reach.
I am CERTAINLY NOT an authority on China, I vacationed there once and saw or heard almost no wildlife, I saw a few wild birds once other than that, nothing
Unfortunately China has a long history of poor farming methods as a result of its late industrialization. Tens of millions died during the Taiping Rebellion during the 19th century due to famines. Even during the Republican era, there were cases of villages fighting against each other, bandits and warlords stealing food, families having more children that they could feed etc that led to several regional famines. Famines come in cycles, and while there are natural influences behind the Great Famine, it is no doubt exacerbated by Mao's policies. While he was a good at planning military struggles, he really had no business managing the economy with ridiculous ideas like planning seeds together and deeper, melting household metals to produce steel etc in a deluded effort to industrialize, but only produced failed harvests and worthless iron. While the USSR abandoned Lysenkoism under Khrushchev, it remained influential in China for a few more years due to the Sino-Soviet Split.
My father *was* a starving kid - he barely survived the Hunger Winter in the Netherlands during WWII, so when we didn't want to eat what was placed before us, we would get a lecture about his rickets and eating nothing but the cores of cabbages and tulip bulbs. There was literally no way to compromise - dinner stayed on the plate until you finished it.
@c.j.nyssen6987 ... Holland and Europe/England to Russia, went thru horrible due to that war ... So many in today's society have no idea how lucky they are ... The farmers in the Netherlands, are currently under fire from the Deep State, that is trying to take their land, kill their herds, prevent the planting of crops ... They are TRYING to create another starvation event without a war ... Support the farmers of ALL countries ... Without them there is no food!!!!
you bet it did, my father would do that, try to make me eat food that I detested and made me sick but when I refused to eat it, that old demon would say then it will be here in the morning when you get up, that was the start of the BATTLE ROYAL UNTIL THAT BASTARD DIED !!
@@hellohello2582wrong choice of words but it is abuse. Eating when not hungry can cause all sorts of problems. All that does is perpetuate eating disorders
Lysenko was a pseudo scientist. An example of the kind of horror that ideological rigidity enforced by violence will produce. Stalin liked him. That’s all that mattered
If his ideas now get pushed cause Putin likes the cut of his jib, maybe we'll see the world's bread basket turn out a massive crop failure in the near future. Only in that case, it'll be tens of millions starving across the globe, mostly in poor nations in Asia and Africa, given that they import a lot of their food from russia.
It is an example of what happens when academia is run by ideology rather than empiricism. There are some worrying parallels to American academia and the current scandals you are seeing in the social sciences. A lot of those “scientists” are ideologues without the first clue what science actually is
@@ElectronFieldPulse I agree it’s worrisome and I don’t consider myself on the right side of the political spectrum in the U.S. as it stands today (a subject unto itself!). You might say I’m a moderate pragmatist. But I abhor any manner of “correct” thinking, whether demanded by political ideology, religion or other manner of enforced herd mentality. I applaud those who point out examples of what you describe, when done without dog-whistle, wink wink, hidden agendas. There was a piece in The Atlantic, I think, some years back that exposed the existence of biased group think in the world of peer-reviewed, hard science academic journals. The point being that even in that world, which tends not to get involved in overt political/ideological battles, there is a human tendency toward herd thinking that can fail to question fudged data. It’s important to be vigilant and question authority of whatever kind. All that said, I’ve seen some good faith, intelligent observers on the left and right (now considered moderate, I suppose) who point out dangerously rigid thinking that’s intolerant of intelligent, critical discourse. The “canceling” going on these days (and, yes, it occurs on the left and right) is dangerously creepy. Don’t get me started on the social sciences. While some of it may be worthwhile to ponder and might even advance understanding of complex human interactions, it’s definitely not science.
They called it the Holodomor in Ukraine. It hit Kazakhstan a few years earlier I think, it was called the Goloshchyokin genocide, named after the Communist party leader in Kazakhstan at the time.
And now the famine creators are on the move again it seems,farmers under restrictions, supply chain disfunction, plans to feed people bugs,the suppression of livestock production, created malnutrition etc etc.
Ukraine is an agricultural country and produced grain for the entire USSR, and the USSR was a major grain escort abroad Even with an inefficient farming system, there was enough food in Ukraine to support itself The USSR created repressive laws such as the "Law of Spikelets" which prohibited the use of available grain and required food coupons Even before the famine, as of May 17, 1932, there were no flour reserves in Ukraine, as evidenced by the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "On Measures to Implement the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on Food Aid to Ukraine": out of 6.5 million poods of grain released to Ukraine, the Politburo requested that 1.5 million be imported in flour, "in view of the complete absence of flour reserves in Ukraine." it was taken away from ukraine Not only grain, but also other foodstuffs, including food surrogates that were of little use and unfit for consumption. Not all peasants died of starvation when the procurement agencies pumped out all the bread, as even the poorest peasant households had other foodstuffs left over. The picture changed when the state resorted to confiscating food from all "debtors," i.e., the authorities carried out a terror of starvation against the "debtors." It was the confiscation of all food that caused the famine to turn into the Holodomor. Stalin had an obsessive idea that Ukrainians were hiding grain or living too richly, and he decided to kill them. (or he was a Ukrainophobe) The NKVD army surrounded the border along Russia and Belarus to restrict people from traveling, because the famine was only in the Hetnic lands of Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Timothy Snyder, an American historian and professor at Yale University, talks about this in the 15th lecture of his course on Ukraine ua-cam.com/video/1dy7Mrqy1AY/v-deo.html. Of course, such repressive laws were passed not in Ukraine, but in the capital of the USSR, Moscow. You can also see more details in the Ukrainian video. UA-cam Channel - Toronto TV ua-cam.com/video/SnvR7HeyzTA/v-deo.html
I read about the chinese famine in the book Wild Swans. The author was a child in china at the time. She talks about the horrific things her parents witnessed and how even though they were well off for the time, her parents still starved themselves to keep the children full. The things that happened during that famine were appalling
The truly horrible part is that's only the tiny part we know about. There were repeated famines and crop shortages throughout the 20th and 21st century, but it never gets reported. The average height dropped by 2 to 3 centimeters in height for multiple generations. That doesn't occur from one short 2 year problem. It's a systematic means of control through denial of resources. There have been some truly horrific tales coming from the Muslim minority population.
This is an amazing three-generation account from one family-grandmother, mother and then the author herself. Because of this multi-generation linear account, we get a much more full idea of the way this chunk of China's history came about and why it is the way it is today. One of the saddest things mentioned (among many, many others) was the amount of China's written history that was destroyed at that time (the 1960's) by Red Guards under Mao's dictatorship.
I saw her give a reading at Prairie Lights bookstore in Iowa City. amazing stories and an impressive woman...she didn't seem to be bitter or resentful an was generally well grounded for a writer 😋. it was hard to listen to because she was there and experienced it this emoted the experience as she read. ✌🏻
The fact that Lysenko is popular again demonstrates the extent to which Russia has fallen victim to its own propaganda. He demonstrably set back Soviet agriculture decades, caused it to become a net importer of food when it could have been either food secure or an exporter. We know that because Russia right now is a net exporter of food, or at least they were prior to the Invasion of Ukraine, I dunno if they still are. It goes without saying that they benefited enormously from that. Thus there is no rational political reason for trying to rehabilitate Lysenko. Not even as a means of destabilizing the west, since he was always ignored there.
I thought the notion of Russian propaganda infecting the West was exaggerated until I saw non-Russians using Russian flag emojis throughout Xter or whatever it's called now, Tucker Carlson going there and openly praising Putin's society, and serious efforts to prop up one of the deadliest men of the previous century.
He isnt popular though the videos gives you a false notion that he is becoming popular again. Like how do you think russia has become the number 1 exporter of grain in the world despite having less arable land than many other nations ? Russia was steadily becoming not just a big player in terms of food and grian export but a unbeatable behemoth especially after sanctions began in 2014, the country saw massive effort from the leadership to cut any economic reliance on the west that can be cut loose. They told themselves why rely on others when we can make a lot of the stuff we import on our own and thus a process to make the country more sovereign and free strengthen the rigidity and endurance of the economy began.The results well we can see for ourselves, growth, positive industrialisation and the ability to take hits and repair. This isnt autarky as russia still relies heavily on trade like any other country instead they focused on trading only with reliable partners countries which would not give a rats a*s about your politics or whether you are in a war or not.
Sadly there were times when Lysenko was popular in the west. And Russia still is one of the biggest producers of food in the world. I don't know why someone would bring back Lysenko's terrible ideas though.
My mother used the 'Starving children in Africa' version. It wasn't that I didn't like the food she made, it was the quantity she put on the plate, starting the threats when I was so full I felt sick. It didn't matter how much I told her I was full, she would threaten to backhand me - her ringed fingers like knuckledusters. (I bet many a person on this comments section knows exactly what it's like to get a sharp engagement ring slapped across the cheek). Looking around at the high number of partly finished kids meals in my local café, I would say that 90% of people just don't understand that a child can get by on a lot less food than they generally put on their plates. As a consequence of my mother's bullying tactics, I decided to parent 'differently.' From the beginning, I would put just a small amount of food on my son's plate and instructed him to 'tell' me 'if' he wanted some more. He has never had any food issues during his life so far (age 28), maintaining a good, steady average weight throughout - unlike me who has zipped up and down the scales due to crash diets and binges.
That's terrible. Both your mother's abuse (yes, that is abuse), and your weight fluctuation. Being fat is bad for the body, but is actually preferable to changing weight frequently. It puts more stress in your body than being overweight, so you might consider settling for being overweight instead of that, although ideally a slow but steady diet would be best.
I was always beaten severely and forced to stay at the table until I finished. If I didn't, beaten again. I was shamed and ridiculed by my family for being skinny and forcefed mysekf until skinny fat, so still a size zero just very unhealthy fat percentage. At 18 I accepted myself and stopped. Still a size 0 but I don't hate my body or food. Thank you for treating your child so wonderfully
As a nutritionist I am so glad you learned from your childhood and gave your child a good foundation for healthy eating. If you give a good variety of healthy (and of course indulgent) foods, you'll be able to self-manage and eat responsibly. A lot of people have quite messed up hunger cues because they're taught that bloat=full which causes stomachs to stretch out over the years needing more and more food. My husband had to relearn when he met me and now is able to eat much happier and even say no when more food is offered if it'll make him feel sick :)
Your parenting is a lot better. I grew up with a sort of mixture of the two. Like your son, I was served a little, I would have to ask for more myself. But I was obliged to eat whatever I put on my plate. And if I did change my mind, the response could be that in other places children were starving, so I shouldn't waste my own food. And certainly there was no desert for me if I didn't finish the main dish. I couldn't ditch 3 potatoes in favour of having room for icecream. Then I shouldn't have taken so many potatoes in the first place. I can only remember twice that I had no room for desert. I learned to take on my plate only what I needed, when it was needed. My childhood, and on occasion having tried to starve during long travels, has taught me always to eat my food, on my plate as well as in my home. Food I can't eat now, I keep for later. I never throw away good food. And I hardly have any food disposals at all. I only have, and prepare, what I eat.
If my dad was out of town and I didn't eat fast enough, my food was put in the blender and I had to drink that or tabasco sauce. If he was in town, I was allowed to toss it once I'd eaten enough. I thought he was aware, but he found out just a couple of years ago and was PISSED. If he still spoke to my mom or had her phone number, shit would've hit the fan even though I'm in my 30s. My sisters and I have all had to reassess our relationships with food over the years. Even now, I feel awful if I don't eat every last scrap of food on my plate. With my sisters' kids, "take another bite of the veggies, then you can be done" is pretty much it when they want to stop eating.
@@HighOnPoint412*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER* in the John Lennon song “Nobody Told Me” he says “they’re starving back in china” the song is about him raising his youngest son, so it can be assumed that the line is him talking to Sean
One thing to remember about the "wealthier farmers" is that they were just that, "wealthier" not wealthy. Maybe their small house was made of something fancy like brick or plastered wood rather than compacted earth or plain wood, roof tiles instead of straw, maybe an extra room. Excesses like that.
A few more cows than average. Being able to pay one person to help get the crop in at harvest time. As you say,any small differential of wealth was enough to make one's family a target.
the Kulaks were essentially the most successful farmers. no farmer in the soviet union was "rich" in fact none of them had anything approaching generational wealth, until the 1919 revolution the farms were essentially owned by the nobility and the peasants leased the land at rates that effectively made them slaves of the landed nobility. so by the late 20s and early 30s the "wealthy" farmers were generally the best farmer in the area. the industrious, hard working, disciplined, skilled and intelligent ones. So when the soviets rounded them up and killed them all (usually being denounced as enemies of the people/state buy their jealous less industrious neighbors) they effectively killed all the farmers who knew how to... you know farm. and handed thier land over to people who were lazy drunks who mostly were failures at life and never worked a day in thier life.
Africa. My mom always said kids in Africa. And there are still lots of people starving in Africa today. OT: Can't believe I never heard of this famine before!
Exactly. Kind of tripped me out he went China when 1000% everything was starving kids in Africa. All over the TV. Flies buzzing around the starving kids. Sally Struthers, everything....
Well, you are not from the US is my guess, let's remember the US had the 'red scare' which probably really, euh.. convinced, people communist country bad, thus also China bad.
Depends on age I would assume. My parents said China and Africa. But Africa was starving in the 80s and 90s. So anybody younger than 50 probably heard Africa. African famines were also similar in collectivization and state control of agriculture caused famine.
Interesting, I live in post Warsaw Pact country, and I have never heard about "eat your food because kids in China are starving". I heard it, but not about China, but about Africa. Maybe since China was/ is communist, saying that kids are starving in China was politically dangerous, so our parents were saying it about Africa instead. And about main topic, it is crazy, that people try to rehabilitate him. And parallels between him and current anti science/ pseudo science movement is terrifying.
Saying starving children in Africa is pretty common in the US as well. My parents said children in Haiti, but I think that was because our church worked with a charity in Haiti.
I'm American, my parents also used the starving kids in Africa line, when I was growing up also was around the time of the Somali food crisis and the failed us intervention in Somalia.. So I imagine Africa was more topical at that time. These days I still use that phrase, but instead of saying Africa, China I say the name of a local town as I feel that has more impact. Instead of some far away place.
The parallels that are terrifying is not that pseudoscience and anti science is a thing in society. It always has been. The terrifying thing is that we have state sanctioned scientists that can not be questioned, and artificial consensus by means of silencing any opposition. Just take a look at Anthony "I am the science" Fauchi. Take a look at the mRNA vaccines and the attempts to silence and shame anyone with concerns. The danger comes not from the individuals with different ideas, but from individuals given state power to force those ideas on others.
that's right... if you throw your food away, the same amount of food will be forcefully removed from the mouths of hungry kids on the other side of the world. and you will be directly responsible for that. now force yourself to eat that can of spaghetti-o's even though you are full from the preservatives
Cows treated well do give more milk, in addition to having to have good genes and good food and clean water. About planting crops too close together, there is a farmer saying: "A given crop is its own worst weed."
Another point about planting to close, is it would work; on a small scale, *if you selected seed from the few plants that thrived* which would literally be selecting the few plants that genetically were capable of thriving in a over crowded reduced nutrient environment. But of course, that is not what they were doing.
@@Vikingwerk Effectively, that's what millennia of agriculture has done, compared to the wild types that our crops have come from. But ultimately there's no free lunch--the plants must have a minimum of everything they need to thrive, and members of the same species are competing for the same nutrients. Photosynthesis allows them to "cheat" by getting carbon from the air, and legumes "cheat" by getting bacteria in their roots to wrestle nitrogen from the air. Everything else must come from the soil.
True, but this is one of those things that is just coincidentally true rather than correlating with his ideas. I think it's important to say "Cows treated well do give more milk, because hormones control milk production and a healthy, well treated cow can create more of the required hormones to produce milk. Not because their genetics are being changed."
@@Tawleyn No one with any biologic knowledge would associate good treatment in life with changing genes. There's no mechanism for that. The good genes I'm referring to are from a century of selective breeding facilitated by the first AI, artificial insemination. Meticulous record keeping about which cows give more milk and who their calves are, plus frozen bull semen of those calves when mature, allow the genetic heritage of high milking cows to be artificially selected for. Milk production in the US went from 30 lbs per cow per day to about 90 lbs per cow per day during the 20th Century, partly from better nutrition, but in large part because of selective breeding. Lysenko would deny this obvious fact.
That's because their bodies need nutrients to produce milk. Cells can't make new molecules out of nothing. And if the cow gets sick she stops producing milk because the body prioritizes fighting off an infection than spending resources on producing milk which is not a priority
In the UK my mum used the “starving children in Africa” line. But there were actually children starving in Biafra at the time, so she kind of had a point.
Heard that all the time too, and used to tell my own children the same thing when they wouldn't eat their greens. The Sahel Belt has been an on-and-off humanitarian crisis for decades though, so "starving children in Africa"-line is sadly correct.
Ukraine is an agricultural country and produced grain for the entire USSR, and the USSR was a major grain escort abroad Even with an inefficient farming system, there was enough food in Ukraine to support itself The USSR created repressive laws such as the "Law of Spikelets" which prohibited the use of available grain and required food coupons Even before the famine, as of May 17, 1932, there were no flour reserves in Ukraine, as evidenced by the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "On Measures to Implement the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on Food Aid to Ukraine": out of 6.5 million poods of grain released to Ukraine, the Politburo requested that 1.5 million be imported in flour, "in view of the complete absence of flour reserves in Ukraine." it was taken away from ukraine Not only grain, but also other foodstuffs, including food surrogates that were of little use and unfit for consumption. Not all peasants died of starvation when the procurement agencies pumped out all the bread, as even the poorest peasant households had other foodstuffs left over. The picture changed when the state resorted to confiscating food from all "debtors," i.e., the authorities carried out a terror of starvation against the "debtors." It was the confiscation of all food that caused the famine to turn into the Holodomor. Stalin had an obsessive idea that Ukrainians were hiding grain or living too richly, and he decided to kill them. (or he was a Ukrainophobe) The NKVD army surrounded the border along Russia and Belarus to restrict people from traveling, because the famine was only in the Hetnic lands of Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Timothy Snyder, an American historian and professor at Yale University, talks about this in the 15th lecture of his course on Ukraine ua-cam.com/video/1dy7Mrqy1AY/v-deo.html. Of course, such repressive laws were passed not in Ukraine, but in the capital of the USSR, Moscow. You can also see more details in the Ukrainian video. UA-cam Channel - Toronto TV ua-cam.com/video/SnvR7HeyzTA/v-deo.html
Yeah, I remember my mum using the Africa line, it was because we all knew about places like Ethiopia thanks to charity telethons. The "starving children in Africa" line then gave birth to dozens of politically incorrect jokes like "What's the fastest thing on Earth? .. an Ethiopian with a can of beans. What's the second fastest? The other Ethiopian chasing him with a can opener."
Love ya Joe. The background music however is distracting, not working for me. Especially ominous Stalin music. I like the idea but it's better just letting us here you speak man! Thanks appreciate all your vids!
Many, many years ago, while I was earning my MBA, I had a roommate from China. She spent Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc, with my family. She was shocked at what many things cost here. After she returned home, I received a box from China filled with new clothes she bought for me and some trinkets she thought I might enjoy. Having also heard the "starving children in China" comment frequently as a child plus seeing the TV commercials for sending Care packages to China. So, I was both touched by her thoughfulness in sending me her gifts from China, but I was very aware I'd been sent a Care package from China to help me here in the US. Diane, using Joe's tablet.
Lysenko was used in my horticulture classes as an example of how science and politics did not mix. We were told that he had set agriculture production in Russia back decades.
But but but politicians have guaranteed that MRNA "vaccines" are safe and effective. The media agreed and celebrated the push. They gave immunity for sure, but not for the people that took the "vaccine" but the politicians gave legal immunity to these creators/distributors. Luckily the MSM and politicians give a fair look at the research not (in)directly funded by the manufacturers right? right?
There is a legend about Lysenko and Landau (a Soviet physicist). Landau asked "if we cut off the right ear of a horse for many generations, at some point we'll get a breed of horses born without the right ear?" Lysenko answered that was true. "And how does your theory explain virgins?" Landau replied
@@AnglephileSwedenGermanLysenko basically was against the concept of genetics and believed that characteristics can be passed down to offspring as long as it has been acquired during the lifetime. Landau brings up the fallacy with the argument. The act of cutting off the ear doesn’t affect the next generation bc that’s not how genetics get passed down. It doesn’t cause the further generations to have clipped ears and cutting them off doesn’t increase the chances of a breed being born without the right ear. landau is calling out this logic as it would imply that being a virgin is “inherited” which obviously does not make sense and is not genetic
@@Mommyofmeats lol ok the guy is such a crack pot that I didn't even bother to pay attention to his ridiculous ideas, it seems he is the stubborn type to never change his mind no matter what
When I was a kid it was "starving children in Africa" and I more than once asked "so why don't you send this to them?" No useful answer, just more bad parenting and shaming.
Vavilov was an absolute hero, he knew that Lysenko's theories would lead to starvation so he argued against them even though going against stalin was a death sentence. He also came up with the idea for the seed bank and set one up in st Petersburg.
Вавилов катался по миру и собирал семена, мечтая о всякой ерунде, а надо было как Лысенко - работать и давать результат, сейчас, немедленно, что Лысенко и делал. Болтовня для вас важнее людей.
"Going against" Stalin was not a death sentence. Stalin did not have the power to simply murder anyone he didn't like. There are multiple examples of people going against his wishes. Not only people, but multiple examples of the entire government of the USSR going against/voting against his proposals.
@@DonHaka I think you don't know what you're talking about. Sure "going against Stalin" is a simplification in this case. But Stalin could murder basically anyone he wanted.
@@EEX97623 Unfortunately, there is no evidence that anyone was ever killed purely because Stalin wanted them dead. Again, he didn't even have the power to do that. Stalin didn't control the NKVD, in fact the NKVD did alot of things completely on their own accord. Now I am not saying that Stalin was an innocent little baby. All I am saying is that because of how the power structure of the USSR WORKED, it would have been impossible for him to just have people killed like that. Stalin didn't have universal, absolute power.
Hi Joe, this is a great video. A bit of feedback, the background music is so loud that it's hard to know what you say several times in the video. I hope it's an easy fix that will improve its enjoyment. It's great information that deserves to be heard! I love your videos!!!
I don't remember it having been distracting before this video, but I didn't even finish listening to this one. It isn't just people who have some hearing loss or older people who have trouble with certain tones, it's also difficult a lot of neurodiverse people who can feel like their attention is being pulled in different directions.
Maybe it's cuz I was watching on my TV but it was actually too quiet for me, and not in a good way either. I kept pausing the video because I couldn't figure out where the distant ominous music was coming from and thinking I was going crazy. I don't remember any other of his videos having bg music and i feel that it better matches the style of the videos.
I came here to say this. It's a combination of several things: Joe's voice volume is too dynamic, the music is too loud, and the script goes too fast to understand the generated subtitles with the picture. I have conductive hearing loss, which means speech is difficult to hear if there is other noise present. I'm listening on good headphones. This is the first video from Joe that has given me these issues though. Thank you!
My mother’s father my grandpa,who was Ukrainian escaped Soviet Union 1936 after surviving the Holodomor couple of years before.Much of his family died.Made it to America in 1938.Anyway I remember as a kid the adults talking about the Holodomor and horrific other events back then. 🇺🇸✊🇺🇦
The so-called "holodomor" is a complete fabrication. There is literally zero evidence that ethnic ukrainians were purposefully targeted in any way. Even more damning for ukrainian nationalists is the fact that the famine (which was supposedly targeted specifically at the ukrainians) affected the entire Soviet Union! That's crazy! Not to mention that the origins of the myth of the so-called "holodomor" comes from literal Nazis and fascist media such as the OUN, William Randolph Hearst and other fascist-sympathizers.
When I was brought up, the "starving children in China" line was the attack vector used by most parents. Then I come here and my wife was told *in the same time frame* that *she* had to eat up because there were "starving children in capitalist countries" who wished they could have it.
@@ytcensorhack1876 He said "but when I came here". Since here isnt a specific place, it's subjective, it was a valid question. BTW, Kim Jung Il also invented the planet, so we should all be thanking him.
You only touched on Nikolai Vavilov, who was Lysenko's teacher, and actually a very good biologist. Vavilov set up seed banks, and one was in Leningrad, where biologists fought to save the seeds from starving citizens. He died because of Lysenko, his own student. It took years for his legacy to be recognized by the Soviet State. Thanks to Khrushchev, he's now recognized as a hero of the Soviet Union.
Speaking of which, several Soviet soldiers gave their lives to defend the seed bank during the Siege of Leningrad, refusing to eat the seeds even when the city faced starvation.
@@richardfan7157 Not just soldiers, but the actual seed bank scientists and researchers starved while surrounded by and protecting huge amounts of things like rice.
Interestingly, there are some crops that actually DO grow best when crowded, like wheat and corn. If you try to plant your corn in rows too far apart, you won't get any heads because they are only pollinated by wind, but not very well. They have to be grown in clusters to get properly fertilized. And of course, the famous "Three Sisters" polyculture is very crowded, because each hole has three seeds in it: Corn, bean, and squash. It's amazingly effective, keeps the soil from drying out (squash leaves cover the bare soil, preventing water and CO2 loss), the beans add nitrogen to the soil (when the plants died back, they were often left to rot in situ, which is how atmospheric N2 gets reincorporated into the soil), and fruits from the three plants provided almost a complete protein profile (add some wild game, and you've got your missing B12). That sort of polyculture also reduced the need for weeding, as its harder for weeds to grow when almost all the available sun space was taken up. It also reduced some insect pests, as it's harder for them to locate squash and beans amidst the corn. But some fungal diseases could spread more rapidly if there was too much rain late in the season. However, this sort of careful polyculture was not a part of Lysenko's repertoire, and he likely would have rejected them, as they came from "The West" (Courtesy of many Eastern Woodlands nations in North America).
It's the same with the cows, treating them better will net you some gains regarding milk production and weight for meat. They aren't unlimited and they don't pass down genetically. You just get a modest, limited gain for your efforts and it makes you a more ethical producer when you treat your animals better.
@@emilala9049 Very true! Paying attention to the ecological niche and behavioral ecology of the organism you're trying to raise - be it plant or animal - often times increases your gains. But the key thing is, YOU have to make an effort to adapt to THEM. Some stress is good and can increase adaptability, but overstressing the organism (like keeping cows in overcrowded CAFOs, or planting seeds too deep) is generally bad for the organism and reduces gains.
@@karlwithak. Ignoring ecology has never worked out for very long in agriculture. The gains we made in production during the "green revolution" are now almost entirely mitigated by evolutionary adaptation by various crop pests, and fertilizer is getting more expensive because we may be running out of phosphorus - which, unlike oil, we have no alternatives to. It's the second most limiting nutrient for plants after nitrogen, and our current methods of industrial agriculture may mean that we hit peak phosphorus by around 2030. And the phosphorus cycle is slow, as it gets deposited into rocks that we then mine.
@@rachelwebber3605 Not to mention the state of the aquifers around the US (can't speak for anywhere else, but I bet we're not the only country with depleted aquifers). In a great many places that we used to consider prime farming land the wells are beginning to pump less water or run dry altogether. It took thousands of years to fill these aquifers, we're maybe a decade or 15 years before we'll be pumping the lot of them dry, and those will just be the ones that didn't collapse sooner. We should be looking for hardier varietals now. Going back into the heirloom seeds, looking for something that puts down deeper roots and has some resistance to drought. You could cross pollinate to enhance the qualities you wanted, like tolerance to temperature variations, higher yield, whatever. The problem is you can really only adapt, if you start adapting right now and a lot of people are really set in their ways.
@@emilala9049 A lot of countries that underwent colonialism have depleted reservoirs and soils due to colonists importing agricultural processes that are not adapted to the specific region. What we should be doing is looking at what the practices of last culture in the area was before colonization, determine if it was sustainable practice (not all cultures in a given area had sustainable practices), and then reincorporating the best practices and using technology to augment and improve on them.
@@JewTube001 and what do you think what blue bloods were before they became blue bloods? Their ancestors if you go back long enough were just simple peasents too, until one of them achieved something in their life which made the family achieve its rank and status... so, you are right BUT also wrong about Lysenko not beeing some kind of blue blood... he wasnt when he born, but he BECAME a blue blooded member of the nomenclature, who never touched a shovel after that... Out with the Old Nobility, in with the New Nobility, a story which happened countless times in history... but unlike countless other times in history the Soviets and communist dont even have the intelectual honesty to admit it
My folks never used the 'starving children elsewhere ' guilt trip. They just said, " Eat it, or you will wish that you had!"😊No guilt trips, just straight-up threats of violence 😂
My mom always told me that if I didn’t eat, I’d end up in the hospital with horribly low blood sugars. Which was accurate. Diabetes backed up Mom’s statements. And that’s why I don’t like eating and kind of have to be bullied into eating now. At 32!
As a child growing up in a family of eight other siblings, you ate or you missed out because one of the other kids would eat the food off your plate. I chose to have one child and because I knew that they didn't like cooked carrots, I gave her raw carrots. She didn't like boiled veges, so I stir fried them. I tried to never make an issue of food in any way because I was concerned about eating disorders that were prevalent as she was growing up in the 1990s. And still are.
@@annakeye I mainly went by the very-wise Dr. Spock's book of baby and childcare -- if the kid doesn't want to eat whatever, just go on to the next thing. Then ask them to try it again some time later, etc. It worked well in most cases. But he still hates broccoli, damn it. 🤣
When my parents told me about the starving kids in Africa I always thought “how does me eating this help? Give it to them then!”. I still believe that’s the most logical answer
Well, first you've got to transport it thousands of miles away, probably across an ocean, into a country with very few refrigerated trucks and terrible infrastructure. Then you've got to avoid it being stolen by local watlords or organized crime. And even if you succeed at that, you haven't fixed the underlying problem that people in that region can't sustain thenselves and will immediately start starving again the moment people from another continent stop shipping them food at enormous expense. If you actually want to help people, better to ask "why were they starving in the first place and how might I fix THAT" rather than giving them food. That's why, after hundreds of billions of dollars thrown at the problem, there are still starving children. If it was so simple as "well give them some food then, idiots!" it would have been solved ages ago. I think it's actually a lot less scary and depressing to assume people in wealthier countries are just greedy and heartless and don't care. Acknowledging that the problem is actually difficult enough that people have tried everything that's commonly suggested and failed is a lot scarier.
@@loganwolfram4216Basically the issue with most government handouts, they don't solve the fundamental issues, just address the symptoms at an extreme cost.
I did the same - repeatedly, and never understood why it always resulted in a smack. I wonder when the China-Africa switch happened, and if it was the same everywhere. (I don't remember my grandparents ever referencing starving children in China, though they did occasionally use outdated versions of other phrases...)
For me it was my maternal grandmother and it was Ethiopia. I also believe this verbal abuse led directly to eating more than my fill and ignoring my body's signals that it was full and done eating and that uncomfortably-overfull feeling was normal which led to me being at least 100lbs overweight as a teen and Type-II Diabetes as early as my 30s and me struggling to manage my A1C and loose weight in my 40s.
I've just added a similar comment. I developed food issues and went on crazy diets with punishing exercise routines that ended up helping to further damage my joints (since I was already a gardener and didn't need the extra exercise).
The great famine in China largely happened because Mao would require unrealistic productivity (like in yhe USSR) but since China is a face-saving culture, the local government leaders would lie about their numbers. Then Mao, thinking there was a surplus of food, exported huge amounts to other countries. It was a classic example of how disasterous centralized planning can be.
I think the main problem described has to do with lies, rather than centralized planning. Non-centralized planning based systems also have the potential to fail spectacularly in various ways when relying on lies. Garbage in = garbage out. Basically, lies destabilize the future. When someone relies on a lie to make decisions that will effect the future, those decisions are inevitably sub-optimal when based on trashy and/or intentionally incorrect input data. This typically results in sub-optimal outcomes, sometimes spectacularly so. At the moment, it would appear that the US government is probably lying about employment numbers and economic health. Some of the economic numbers that they are publishing do not make sense anymore and are not self consistent. If one pays attention to Joe Biden's speeches and Twitter account postings, he would basically have you believe that "Bidenomics" is working great, the economy is in excellent health, the economic future of the US is bright, unemployment is low, jobs creation is strong, everything about Biden's handling of things is profoundly awesome, etc. In actual reality, the US government most likely is lying about economic numbers, and the economy is not as strong as they claim, due to the natural consequences of high inflation due to COVID-19 policy associated money printing, followed by high interest rates. Consequently, many people are being squeezed and are having a hard time paying their bills, largely due to eroded purchasing power due to major inflation, and partly because of general economic weakness. Such conclusions would not be obvious if one trusts and believes the US government's "official" economic numbers and narrative, which paints an abnormally rosy picture. Meanwhile, the US Federal Reserve (the "Fed") is seemingly relying on the lying US government economic narrative (of a strong economy, with high employment, and good future outlook), and they appear to be trusting this false narrative, so much so that they have jacked up the interest rates very rapidly and quite far. The Fed appears to be assuming that the economy actually is strong and can handle the increased headwinds associated with high interest rates. In practice, this is likely a very wrong conclusion, based on trusting the economic and labor statistic lies of the US government. It may be that the high interest rates, combined with the weak overall economy, combined with already distressed banks (due to the Fed also removing money from the M2 money supply by way of shrinking its "balance sheet"), combined with other actions (like turning back on student loan repayments), could lead to widespread debt defaults and possible banking failure. The Fed may be setting the US up for major economic instability and probable catastrophe, and they are either doing it due to profound incompetence, unintentional but still major incompetence (due to relying on economic number lies of the US government), and/or intentional malfeasance. It may be that the US government and the US Fed actively and intentionally want people to be poor, so that they consume less energy, so as to reduce CO2 emissions, in an effort to try to help "solve" looming climate change related problems. Joe Biden has claimed in at least one speech that he considers climate change to be a bigger overall concern, than nuclear war.
Mao caused the famine. Selling the food was incidental to all the other causes. Mao pushed agricultural collectivization and placed military leaders in charge. These leaders had little to no knowledge of agriculture. Mao pushed the farmers to plant more than one rice crop a year, even when he was told the weather didn’t support it. Mao ordered deeper plowing of the soil, which destroyed the topsoil. Mao ordered farmers to plant seeds closer together - not allowing them the breathing space they needed. Mao ordered the killing of birds (sparrows) because they ate grain seeds. According to FEE, “In what is one of the most bizarre and ecologically damaging episodes of the Great Leap Forward, the country was mobilized in an all-out war against the birds. Banging on drums, clashing pots or beating gongs, a giant din was raised to keep the sparrows flying till they were so exhausted that they simply dropped from the sky. Eggs were broken and nestlings destroyed; the birds were also shot out of the air.” Without birds, the locusts and grasshoppers were free to devour crops. Mao militarized agriculture with forced military-like routines for farming. Human waste was used as fertilizer. Farming tools were melted down for steel, disabling production.
@@jamesp3902 Amazing how much these things sound like Lysenko's ideas. Isnt it funny how two people can come to the same conclusion? It's almost like Mao was basing these choices on the ideas of Lysenko. Coincidence, right?
Feedback for the audio: The threatening soundtrack used when Stalin was presented was too loud compared to your voice. Later the optimistic audio track when presenting the scientist felt misplaced, because of the context of this scientist causing so much death. The first point is about audio mastering, the second is about audio track choice...
To Joe: There wasn't any problem with your videos without the music. IMO the music is just disturbing. Still, apart from the melodic bit your vids are great.😊
To be clear about the cows, they do produce more milk when they are treated well, but the effect is not nearly as big as genetics and hormone levels. If you have a low milk-producing cow, and she isn't sick or underfed, pampering her isn't really going to make a big enough difference to validate keeping her in the herd.
If the Soviets had been told that starving & beating cows would increase milk yield, they would have done that, so the cows had something to be grateful for.
I'm 62 years old. I was born and raised in West Virginia with three siblings. My mother never told us there were starving kids in other countries to convince us to eat our food. She was too busy trying to take care of us and making sure we had enough to eat. She raised a garden and she had chickens. Sometimes I think she was worried there was a mother somewhere in Africa standing over her kids with her arms crossed telling them they better clean their plates because there are starving kids in America who would be happy to have that. She didn't want to be the one they were talking about. Sometimes I know she didn't eat to make sure we did.
I think Thomas Midgley, of leaded gas and CFCs fame, is a strong contender for being worse. Some estimates put his death toll as high as 100 million. And who knows what else he may have come up with if he didn't end up being done in by another of his own inventions, a pulley system designed to help him get out of bed.
Yeah, I don't want to defend either Midgley or Lysenko, but I think it's worth pointing out that neither of them were in such a position of power that they can be held up as the singular cause of the mass deaths. For Lysenko, it's Stalin, Mao, and Communism in general. For Midgley, it's the various industry execs and politicians who greenlit his inventions. But even if you only allocate them 1% of the responsibility for the impact, being personally responsible for 1M deaths is a hell of a thing.
@@jon_j__I was going to say this exact thing, but probably less eloquently. We shouldn’t say they weren’t terrible, they were, just that it’s only partially their fault. You need poor leadership and poor ideas to get these types of tragedies.
One of my grade school teachers used the "starving children" argument on me once. My response was, "So they'll starve if we eat all the food?" She didn't use it again after that.
Loved the video, but the music was very loud at times which made it more difficult to follow what was being said. Not sure if that was just me but wanted to let you know!
I first learned of Lysenko just over 50 years ago in my mid teens while in High School. I've come to find that there are two broad categories of people. Those who are good examples and those who are bad. Much can be learned from the study of each type. Needless to say, the study of Lysenko's example tells us to beware when politics and science bed down together.
There’s a story from Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago, where a worker was given a Communist party award for his hard labor. When asked how he felt about his award, he joked that a little more food would be better than an award. He was immediately charged with an Article 58 violation and given a 10 year sentence of hard labor.
@@deptusmechanikus7362 The main things about his works that've been debunked with a high degree of certainty are the wildly exaggerated numbers. Everything else is anybody's game as Soviet Russia, especially of those times, is not very well documented -- as far as anyone without access to Russia's historical archives could possibly know. Also, the Gulag Archipelago resonated with former Gulag inmates immensely, to the point where they couldn't distinguish their lives from what was written there. If *even* a fraction of what Solzhenitsyn wrote is true it is still enough to condemn the barbarity of the Soviet judicial system, the Gulags, the mentally that led to them, and much more.
@@deptusmechanikus7362 Because you saw a snarky youtube video saying just that. So now it's your unqualified retort to whoever brings it up. Well done. I think most people who talk about it haven't read it, and admittedly it's a bit of a slog and it's easy to put down and not pick up again. Much easier to pretend. Cut and paste opinions, can't beat em. Cheers.
I'm pretty sure the phrase "starving kids in africa" was more popular. My parents said that all the time but it was also said a lot in movies and tv shows. This is the first time ive ever heard of the phrase "starving kids from china"
China was the typical trope for alleged starvation until the 1980s when popular culture shifted attention to the struggles of Africa. For those of us who grew up at a certain time, China was more commonly used as an example of government gone wrong. So while Africa was probably used more during your generation, it was more common to mention China from the 50s through the mid 1980s.
Me too. However, barring a progressive change, I forsee a day soon when the appropriate idiom will be "Eat your dinner, there are starving kids in Britain who would kill for that". I wish that was just a humourous exaggeration.
I still think Thomas Midgley Jr. was worse. His body count might be harder to track, but the damage he caused to all living organisms on the planet should be unparalleled.
@@russelltaylor535 Ehhh. Unlike these other examples, though, Haber is *also* responsible for the enormous uptick in food production. Haber was an excellent scientist, he was just also amoral.
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My parents would always say there were starving kids in Africa. I actually found out about China's Great Famine earlier this year. I made a video about it, focusing on the killing, and near extinction, of the sparrows, which was another contributing factor. And, because I'm a wildlife guy, I liked that angle. Awesome video, Joe.
Thank you for your comment. I just watched it and it was really interesting. I am looking forward to see the rest of your videos aout happier topics :)
Allan Sherman did a funny spoken-word piece about the "clean your plate because there are starving people in China" exhortation. He said words to the effect of, "So I cleaned my plate. Four, five, six times a day. But the people kept starving and I got fat." He finished up with, "Hail to thee, fat person! You kept us out of war!"
Neither Lysenko himself, nor his ideas are in any way popularized, all his works are considered anti-scientific in Russia. These stories about "Lysenko's popularity in Russia" are not new, they did not appear after the start of the war, they are already more than 6-7 years old, but I still have not seen a single example proving any popularity of his ideas among anyone in scientific circles or among the Russian authorities. The last article about Lysenko in the Russian media, dated December 4, 2022, calls Lysenko a "charlatan and obscurantist".
Yes, i was very confused by this. Could not find anything related myself either. My guess is he is trying to sprinkle some "juicy" misinformation related to the current events in an attempt to increase the perceived appeal of the video.
@@JamesChurchill no, he said that lysenko "is presented as a hero to the russians" and that russia wants to shake science as the "bedrock of the western culture". This claim is at best a delusion and is honestly borderline dehumanizing. With his rhethoric and the putins picture attached, his implication, whether intentional or not, is that it is a state agenda. And even if i were to assume your point corresponds to what he said in the video, i could not even find any fringe source. He should have provided one in the description like educational channels do, otherwise i have to assume he invented it.
@@Vova__ In Joe's defense, such articles about Lysenko have appeared many times in the press over the past 5 years, mainly in Radio Liberty and its affiliated media, so he just might have stumbled upon them.
Started watching your channel after the Byford Dolphin incident video. subscribed as a result of your thorough breakdown and non sensationalist coverage of that. I'm glad to see that is a trend and not a one off. glad i subscribed. enjoying your videos and they method in which you present them. i know these are older videos, but i still look forward to viewing more.
My parents never used the "Starving children" line on us. They would just say, "Okay. Don't eat it. It will be your breakfast in the morning." It didn't take us long to just shut up and eat - except my oldest sister.. She was always a bit hard headed.
This is the way. My mom tried the “starving kids in Africa” line once… I told her she could send my food to Africa then. After that, she would just cover what we didn’t eat and have us eat it at the next meal and the next meal until it was gone. For my own kids, I just don’t make them eat foods they don’t want. They eat pretty much everything, but sometimes they’re just not in the mood for some foods… and I get that. If they specifically ask for a special food, they have to eat most of it though. I’m not about to cook a special thing and then have it not eaten 🤨 Normal days get them a choice between two meals. For example: Breakfast: oatmeal or cereal Lunch: grilled cheese or pbj Dinner: noodles and red sauce or mac n cheese Changed up every day of course, but 99/100 times if they pick what they want, they eat it all.
My grandmother was not satisfied unless you accepted something to eat. “What’s wrong? Why aren’t you hungry?” And then she’d list a dozen things she could either serve or cook for me, until finally I’d agree to something
I’m a longtime fan of your channel from Azerbaijan, a former Soviet Union country. Frankly speaking, I am impressed by the level of research and insights you got on Stalin-era Soviet Union. Very well done!
Many important details were omitted: 1) during Stalin even such scarce made wheat not even used for bread, it was exported worldwide to get foreign currency (wheat was oil before oil) for buying Ford factories tech which was a cornerstone of all USSR industry, Ford likes bloody money and adored Stalin with Hitler(Adolf publicly liked soviet agriculture model of forced labor and peasant strict community which planned for new german territories, ironically Israel adopted this model with kibbutz and now can't survive without cheap labor from Asia, it's really for robots not for people, way ahead of its time), all soviet industrial giants was made by american engineers (history repeating again with China today, where even firewall made by americans). 2) After Stalin during Khrushchev the USSR got in such agricultural problems that it's officially started importing foreign wheat and it was basically golden bread. New soviet leader with Kennedy and short friendship period very liked corn production in USA, that's why in Russia he called a "corn leader" and forcefully corn adapted in soviet agriculture everywhere. American farmers which invited in Soviet union to consult with corn adaption was shocked how soviet agriculture not using fertiliser at all (presumably to save on it in planning economics) and by that destroying fertile layers of soil. Agriculture in USSR during all it's 70 years of existence was a mess, till USSR collapse it was forced to import foreign bread because of such mistakes during huge harvests which rotten in warehouses or lost in transit, at the same time subsidising Africa with aid by political reasons, which soviet people still can't regret (unity in hunger). It's really getting bankrupt as a project.
I never heard of this guy before, but I do remember my mother saying "Think of the starving kids in China". Never knew that there was such a horrible famine there. I grew up hearing of the communist purges, but not the famines. The only famine I ever heard spoken of was the Potato Famine in Ireland.
@thomascreeden9650 The famines in Asia were overwhelmingly the result of Western and of British policy. In India alone, Dr. Gideon Polya in Countercurrents estimates that from 1765 through 1938 the British killed 1.8 billion (with a "b") Indians while reducing India's share of global GDP from 25% to 4%.
@@johnstrawb3521 Weird that you're claiming billions of people died when the world population at the time was barely 3 billion. It didn't start ballooning until the discovery of penicillin and the invention of Vaccines. Not disputing that the British killed millions of people during colonialization.... just that you're hyper inflating the facts to make a what-aboutism. To answer Thomas' question. You don't hear about it because the current Government in China intentionally downplays the communist famines as it hurts their feel goods to admit that Communism failed its own people that hard. They still celebrate Mao in China and any failings that man made are downplayed or censored outright. As China extended its influence overseas it actively sought to minimize these facts and histories from being recounted. As a result its not taught with any major depth or detail in a lot of places. Rather it gets glossed over if it's mentioned at all. In much the same way the US massacres in the Philippines, Koreas and even at home against black and Native Americans, tends to get lost in the education system. It's not that any of these events are denied. It's just not looked at or scrutinized strongly to protect those individuals and power structures that ultimately depend on people not looking too deeply at things.
Love how your intro music is 4 times louder than your mic volume so it absolutely blows my eardrums out because I have my volume up trying to understand what you're saying
I’m from Brazil and my parents would say this about starving children in Africa. But what is more sad is that there were children in food insecurity back home. :(
My sister sometimes poured milk down the sink, because in her 5 year old mind, the drains were going downward and china was on the other side of the earth, so she was sending milk to the starving children in china 😂 None of us knew this till a few years ago, btw. She was never caught in the act.
reminds of how I used to drop pieces of string cheese into my family's house's floor vents. i wanted to feed the mice because I was obsessed with mouse books at that age- the one with the motorcycle, the schoolhouse one, Redwall especially... probably doesn't help that my uncle was encouraging me, lol
My parents used Africa. I use Arkansas, because that's where I'm from. I actually feel guilty about the amount I'm eating. The dishes I make now would have been split 6 ways as a child, and now it's just the two of us eating the entire thing.
Here in South Africa my parents used "world hunger - there are hungry kids out there somewhere in the world" after a bunch of charities started popping up here asking for donation for the world's children, feeding them world over in the early 2000's.
His approach to science seems very like that of Ancel Keys. And yeah, growing up in England in the 60's, we had to eat everything on our plate because children were starving in Africa. I told my parents they could send what I didn't eat to Africa, but I got a smack on the head and got sent to bed for suggesting it. I suspect I only suggested it once.
Thanks for the Keys reference. Arguably, Keys' negative impact on nutrition persists to this day. 12 servings of grain a day = diabetes, obesity, mental illness, and cancer galore.
Great video as always but as some of the others commented the music is a little bit too loud. There is a good technique called ducking in the audio engineering that remedies that thing. And again great video!
This is why we need international research collaboration and peer review of research articles. Maybe it is time to make a video about the two weeks everyone thought the South Korean researchers had found a room temperature superconductor, which, after the experiments had been repeated by multiple international research groups, turned out to be a result of magnetism due to iron pollution in the sample.
Yes, and as your example makes clear, it’s just as needed in the so-called “hard” or “objective” fields of science. Errors, falsehoods, oversights, misinterpretations etc can always happen
Born in 2004, lived in Hawaii, my mom decided to tell me there were kids who didn’t have a single grain of rice so I should always finish my rice. Now I know it’s because she didn’t want me filling up on crazy expensive meat since living on a small island meant the groceries in the stores had to be shipped in.
We see food deprivation here, but it doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Part of the reason some people are obese does not mean they are eating well. It’s because cheap, filling prepared foods are cheaper than fruits and vegetables in the US. In Europe, it’s exactly the opposite.
After reading a bunch of the comments, and knowing WHEN the Chinese famine occurred, I would suggest that the reason more people in modern times say "in Africa" is simple - the famine in Ethiopia was very public and much more recent. The scary thing is that Trofum could become popular with people in the west and other areas as well; simply because of the distrust in good science that is growing again.
Yes, the famine in China was almost unknown in the West until 20 years or so later. I first heard of it on some TV show where one or two Americans were asking why so many truckloads of food were being sent to South China. Lysenkoism is alive and well in the West but it no longer has a name and is not talked about. It's an assumption that's one of the bases of some political systems. Assumptions are never questioned or acknowledged in politics. It is no longer considered science - it's a tenet of faith. Yes, I know I'm conflating science, religion, and politics. That's what it looks like to me: They're converging.
Coincidentally, Ethiopia in the 80s was also an ally of the Soviet Union, as it was run by a communist military junta. One/The ONLY key difference between far-right policy and far-left policy is that the far-right mould their ideology around an idea(ie the Nazis moulded their beliefs around Eugenics and the idea of an intellectual elite ruling the land via direct rule, the politics of the land are only governed by the ideas of the elite and the traditionally-minded, so to speak), whereas the far-left mould an idea around their ideology(ie Lysenkoism and the Great Leap Forward, where communists and socialists would mould any idea around their ideology, under the mindset, approach and premise that EVERYTHING must be and to that end, IS politicised and political). Furthermore, the reason why people distrust Science is thanks to its corporatisation and hyper-industrialisation. This has led to the rise of the Sackler Family and the greater Opioid Epidemic that began in the 1990s, as well as the ironically government-managed botching of COVID-19 in 2020. The rise of Social Justice and greater Far-Left beliefs within younger people especially online has led to a lot of Lysenkoist-adjacent beliefs and applications. It's why you hear idiots say "but Science DOES care about your feelings" and "Body Language is not reliable" or "x is a Social Construct".
@@DR3ADER1 Your comment was almost insightful but didn't quite get there. The political distortions of science in the USSR pretty much began and ended with Stalinism. Once he was out of the picture science mostly got back to normal. So, your "theories" about ideologies and science are not based on good information. Almost like you're moulding your idea around your ideology.
Really interesting stuff. I had no idea about the Chinese famine. The audio was borked on this one Joe, background music too loud and your voice really echoed (with respect and admiration).
The unsaid part of the adage was, you should be grateful you have enough food to eat, because there are children starving elsewhere and you are not one of them.
Pretty much. Fauci was also hilariously wrong about the origin of AIDS among other subjects - didn't stop him from gaining more and more powerful political positions, and being more and more blindly worshipped by people who claim to "follow science".
Early on understood our parents and grand parents knew how scarce food had been because of the depression and also how they learned a child would in thirty minutes be complaining how they were hungry because the parent didn't encourage them to eat what was in front of them.
Very interesting video. A follow up on epigenetics would be amazing ! As a quick little CC, the background music was quite distracting, came in a bit abruptly and covered your voice quite a bit. I think 3/4 db less would be good and also, doing an EQ on the track to create a dip of frequence where your voice sits would help spread out and get more clarity. The track was nice otherwise but being so present made it harder to hear you clearly and a little too dramatic. I tried listening both on my macbook pro M1 (decent speakers for videos), and Bose headset. Same issue. Hope that can be useful. Cheers and thx for the video !
Specially on YT audio is hit and miss, having said that my aural experience of this video was quite good as I run an EQ and I am constantly adjusting for different videos. This one of Joe's as per normal was good as I didn't have to touch my EQ and remained on a preset. I don't have flash sound just an old laptop and a 2000s Sony wiz bang stereo via a headphone amp for a bit of gain. My speakers are bass heavy so anything under 60hz is cut by my EQ.
During my young childhood, my Mother frequently employed the name of the currently starving nation of Biafra. "Eat your dinner. Children are starving in Biafra." One night, my 8-year-old mind and mouth responded to that by saying, "Then send this to them." I was sent to my room. Just as well. 😂
With my parents (I'm 67 now) it was "Eat it. Or don't. You get nothing else until breakfast." That tended to be pretty effective most nights. It didn't help that after one or two coaxings my dad, who worked all day to support the family, would take the plate of the child who didn't want to eat, and gobble it down himself. He wasn't trying to prove a point, though -- he was just REALLY hungry and didn't care a whiff if one of us willingly starved. Ahhh.... precious childhood memories.
I think your dad was awesome. He obviously needed more food but he made sure his children got enough. If you weren’t hungry enough to appreciate the food then it went to the one that needed it more.
Superb explanation of Lamarckism. I remember learning about this in JHS. Supposedly the story goes, he was getting his horse reshoed when he noticed the 4-5 year old son of the blacksmith was very muscular. Rather than realising that this was the result of the boy working the forge with his father, Lamarck came up with his "theory".
There are lots of stories bumping around about Lamarck and his theories, but it doesn't actually seem like Lamarckism was actually HIS theory. As in, he's not the one who came up with it. It now looks like that the basic premise was developed by someone else, whose name is now lost to history. Lamarck heard about it, liked it, and added it to a book he was writing, and maybe included a few additional speculations of his own to flesh out the idea. That book, which was targeted at lay audiences, became something of a fad at the time, almost like Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" which resulted in the theory getting popularized, and Lamarck's name getting attached to it.
The thing is, Lamarck isn't totally wrong. We know about eqigenetics now. We also know individual specimen actually do adapt in certain ways to external stimuli, like food supply. But going from there to assumig how you can force those changes onto plants without going through the research of finding out if and how they will react to the specific stimuli you want to expose them to? Not to speak of the narrow-mindedness with which Lysenko assumed it could be only the one or the other. Two things can be true at the same time. And then you'd have an even harder job figuring out which effect, if any, is the dominant one.
I think you've got this backwards. It's the Left that promote the policies of Central Planning that cause these massive ways of starvation in Socialist Countries. This is one of the main points of this video. Every time Socialism has been tried, it has resulted in many forms of disaster. Starvation, police states, loss of freedom, reeducation camps, or all of the above.The USSR, Cuba, North Korea, China, Nicaragua, etc. Capitalism, despite its unequal sharing of blessings, has raised more people out of poverty than any form of political order ever tried throughout history. The Left doesn't promote education, it promotes indoctrination, and low or no standards of accomplishment at all education levels.
My parents got married as soon as my father got home to the UK from WW2. Rationing was stric, and getting worse, as my two older sibling were born. Although rationing was just coming to an end by the time I was born I well remember my mother sometime becoming almost hysterical if we did not eat every last bit of food that was put before us.
Did they have anyway to keep it if you didn't eat it? A refrigerator? My mother grew up in a city. My father in the rural Southern US. I'm not sure my Dad had a refrigerator all the time as a kid. They did live in a small town, so I think they may have had an ice box rather than a propane refrigerator. Because he didn't have electricity until the Rural Electrification Act, 1936. When he was a teenager.
@@kitefan1 I think it has more to do with rationing being a "use it or loose it" system. if you didn't consume what was allocated to you then your allotment was decreased next time.
My grandma told me the story about Chinese people killing all the sparrows to stop sparrows eating the crops. That was the year 1977, and it was in Siberia when I have heard that story. A few years later I had first-hand experience participating in ongoing process of "Яровизация" ("vernalization") of potatoes. That was near the town Kolpashevo at the north of the Tomsk region, not far from Narim where Joseph Zhugashvili was once a prisoner before he became "stalin". Then we had a collapse of the state... My understanding is, there are hardly any people left in the area of Narim Government Selection Station ("НГСС") where the work on vernalization of potatoes used to be conducted. Many left, many died. Very sad picture indeed.
As a decendant of one of those 'kulaks', I still remember my grandfather tell the story of how he and his siblings ate grass and stole eggs to survive after their farm was taken away and they became homeless. Since we're of german decent, we were then declared 'enemy of the state' and banned to gulags in central asia.
There's also the part about "science" becoming so politicized that nobody believes anything that a scientist says just like we can't believe anything a politician says. Since so much of "science" is funded by the state, it has become an arm of political parties. The only way to regain trust is to stop taking money from the sciencist-politicians who control the funding. We know that's not going to happen so "science" will not be trusted.
Political regression as well. Takes a horrendous worldview to glorify Lysenko as a defier of “Western” science rather than who he really was: a killer of colleagues and fellow countrymen.
@@_nebulousthoughts The ironic fact about that is that the only reason why we know this point about people choosing comfort over truth is thanks to Science and the findings produced by various psychological studies.
I am from India and fortunately me and my generation living in the 2nd tier cities never faced acute food crisis but my parents’ generation has literally seen people ending up dead as well as riots being instigated because of acute food shortage. So growing up, my generation, who were born in the ‘90s have always been warned of the “Karma” that follows, if we waste food by their parents. It’s still a misery to see even on the 76th Independence day of my country, so many people getting preventable diseases like Tuberculosis and Rickettsia because of poor nutrition.
As a kid in the late 60s and all through the 70s USSR, my mom never said anything about kids starving anywhere, it was either "Do you know how long I/your sister/your brothers had to stand on a queue to buy that?" - OR "Do you remember how YOU had to stand on a queue for 6 hours to buy this?" The only thing we were allowed to gripe about was tinned seaweed salad - in our city the shops were overflowing with it, so the shop managers demanded you buy 2 or 3 tins of the vile stuff in order to buy something GOOD (for every tin of beef - when it was available - you had to also buy 3 tins of seaweed salad). We all hated it, and YES, it WAS just a few Kopeks a tin, but mum only forced us to eat it during winter when fresh veg was hard to obtain.
I also used to get the “kids in china would love that food” lecture when I was little. But the thing is, my undiagnosed autistic 5yr old self didn’t get it and would always respond with “Then why don’t you sent the food to china since I don’t want it?” lmao.
Love your content, and I like all the changes you've been making, but I wanted to chime in and say that the music is way overpowering starting in the Great Purge section. I don't separate audio channels very well, and it was very hard for me to hear what you were saying.
100% hope Joe sees this. The music was ABSOLUTELY overpowering at times. And frankly... that's not something that should be able to happen with a team as professional as what Joe presumably has. As a recreational editor... syncing audio is one of the last things I do in all of my work... and it's something that I *never* skip. I'm not a big fan of the changes that took place a few months ago (I DESPISE unmotivated zooms... with a passion... but I understand why he made those changes. Honestly, I'd love if there was a "here's the same video with absolutely no zooms" option, but I'm realistic about that not being an option. People like the unmotivated zooms for... WHATEVER reason... so be it. But the audio? That's inexcusable. *IF* this was intentional... I may have to go elsewhere. And that will make me friggin sad.
The generational trauma of food scarcity is a massive factor in the obesity epidemic that I really don't think gets enough attention. Being raised to think that you're doing something wrong if you don't finish everything on your plate is bad for everyone.
That coinciding with pushing the ass backwards food pyramid in the 80s. Also it's easier for corporations to mass produce the foods that cause obesity.
You should, generally, finish everything on your plate. The problem is in ordering or cooking more than is good for you in the first place. And also the establishments that encourage that behavior.
I get what you're saying, but corporate corruption around the world is more to blame...and our primal nature. The US is obviously the worst case scenario where political bribery is legal. Have a hard look at Monsanto and their history of influencing the food pyramid and the FDA. Pure evil. There's a reason they get sued continually and always lose. So much land wasted on corn, soy, and canola...all useless, empty calories.
That's makes no sense from a US perspective, which is where the obesity crisis is centered. The last Americans to suffer food scarcity grew up in the 30's, and are dead or extremely old. Their children are the baby boomers, who are all getting older. Boomers endured little to no such food scarcities, and they raised the millennials in an environment of indulgence. Obesity amongst the youngest generations of Americans is truly at an epidemic level, and they were raised by millennials and gen Zers, who've only experienced an abundance of food.
A few years back I read a book called The Lysenko Affair by David Joravsky. It went into some more detail of Lysenko and his ideas. I'd def give it a read if you're intrigued by this chapter of history. :D
See also Chapter 13 of 'Nine Lives - the Autobiography of a Yorkshire Scientist' by Sydney Harland ed by his Californian nephew Max Millard - published only online - google it and download for free. Harland, a REAL scientist and world expert in plant genetics, visited Vavilov in the USSR in 1933-4 and while there was introduced to Lysenko - and saw right through the wretch. Harland also however witnessed the effects of the widespread famine which was already raging, well before Lysenko got into a position of real power and influence.
Him and half the researchers at Dow Chemical for having invented PFAS and fucked up practically all water everywhere. Across the whole of the United States, rainwater is considered unsafe to drink due to PFAS contamination. All so eggs won't stick to a frying pan. The people behind PFAS ought to go to prison for a very long time if you ask me.
A good video thanks. You mentioned there were other factors contributing to the famines in the Soviet Union and China. Certainly under Mao, he used food and industrial products as currency to pay for imports from outside China. Consequently food was seized to the level where local producers, who in the past would have kept some aside for local and home use, had everything taken under pain of death in his desperate need to boost imports and I believe this was a major cause for them to resort to their below subsistence diets and death to eat anything at hand. I am also sure the Soviets acted in a similar way.
How many times have I read about modern famines that weren't caused by stupidity and hubris and the squandering and denial of resources? The last 5 minutes really reminded me of how the further distance society gets away from a horrible tragedy, or person, the more you see weird fringe people start to make statements about how "it actually wasn't as bad as they want you to think" or "there were some good parts". NO! There are no good parts! Shout that down every time.
Hi Joe! I got that same admonishment from my parents, and one day I replied: "Why do you just ship it to them?" I got my ass beat and sent to my room for sassing. Now I always finish what I am served whether I am still hungry or not. All hail Zoe!
And while that attitude is understandable, it also contributes to the obesity epidemic. When food is scarce, it makes sense to eat as much as you can, but with abundant food that's extremely unhealthy.
Haha I was about 10 years old when my mom said "There are starving kids in Africa" and my response was "Yeah? Well why don't you ship this meal to them". She laughed and never used that guilt trip again.
i used to force myself to eat everything whenever i went out to eat because i overpaid for it directly. then i started realizing that it's not benefiting me at all and just making me miserable over something i should be enjoying. whether i throw it away or force myself to eat it and it turns to poop later, it doesn't affect ANYBODY but me
As a sort of sarcastic riff on that phrase my brother and I used to just say, "You better eat that. There's kids in China!" Leaving out whether they are or are not starving.
Gullible kids? When my gen was told there were starving children in Ethiopia they brought the receipts; They had pictures, news stories and video of the famine. Nowadays they would not be lying if they said there were starving children in XX city or state.
My Mom used the starving people in Africa line once, I asked her to name two of them and got my ass beat. Good times.
I always asked for an envelope so I could send food
Dang you were a sharp sassy one haha
ROFL.
😂
@@stargatis My mom would've gotten a box and sent me instead
My grandfather lived through the great famine in China, he told me that there were no birds in the sky and you won’t hear any crickets, frogs or cicadas during summer nights because people ate all of them or else they’d starve to death. There were also dead trees everywhere since people started eating the tree barks when they run out of stuff like rats and bugs to eat, those were some harrowing times.
Mao ordered all the birds killed so they wouldn’t eat any crops..result? Insect pests proliferated.
The fact that Mao blamed the famine on an overpopulation of sparrows to disguise his own mistakes led to sparrow hunt events, where millions of birds were killed. That, in turn, created a plague of locusts in the following season that killed the rest of the crops and eradicated other healthy insect populations. So that might also be a factor why your grandfather said he didn't hear any birds or crickets in that time.
@@marcpym5251 Not just sparrows people back then were eating any wild birds they could catch, if they can’t get the birds they’ll just look for nests and eat the eggs, that’s how bad it was. My grandfather said he saw people falling to their death because they were climbing the tallest trees in his town in hopes of finding eggs in the bird’s nest that are too tall for others to reach.
I am CERTAINLY NOT an authority on China, I vacationed there once and saw or heard almost no wildlife, I saw a few wild birds once other than that, nothing
Unfortunately China has a long history of poor farming methods as a result of its late industrialization. Tens of millions died during the Taiping Rebellion during the 19th century due to famines. Even during the Republican era, there were cases of villages fighting against each other, bandits and warlords stealing food, families having more children that they could feed etc that led to several regional famines. Famines come in cycles, and while there are natural influences behind the Great Famine, it is no doubt exacerbated by Mao's policies. While he was a good at planning military struggles, he really had no business managing the economy with ridiculous ideas like planning seeds together and deeper, melting household metals to produce steel etc in a deluded effort to industrialize, but only produced failed harvests and worthless iron. While the USSR abandoned Lysenkoism under Khrushchev, it remained influential in China for a few more years due to the Sino-Soviet Split.
My father *was* a starving kid - he barely survived the Hunger Winter in the Netherlands during WWII, so when we didn't want to eat what was placed before us, we would get a lecture about his rickets and eating nothing but the cores of cabbages and tulip bulbs. There was literally no way to compromise - dinner stayed on the plate until you finished it.
@c.j.nyssen6987 ... Holland and Europe/England to Russia, went thru horrible due to that war ... So many in today's society have no idea how lucky they are ... The farmers in the Netherlands, are currently under fire from the Deep State, that is trying to take their land, kill their herds, prevent the planting of crops ... They are TRYING to create another starvation event without a war ... Support the farmers of ALL countries ... Without them there is no food!!!!
you bet it did, my father would do that, try to make me eat food that I detested and made me sick but when I refused to eat it, that old demon would say then it will be here in the morning when you get up, that was the start of the BATTLE ROYAL UNTIL THAT BASTARD DIED !!
That's the horrible form of domestic violence.
@@im_pianono
@@hellohello2582wrong choice of words but it is abuse. Eating when not hungry can cause all sorts of problems. All that does is perpetuate eating disorders
Lysenko was a pseudo scientist. An example of the kind of horror that ideological rigidity enforced by violence will produce. Stalin liked him. That’s all that mattered
"Mendelian Genetics is too bougie. We need a proletarian genetic theory."
If his ideas now get pushed cause Putin likes the cut of his jib, maybe we'll see the world's bread basket turn out a massive crop failure in the near future.
Only in that case, it'll be tens of millions starving across the globe, mostly in poor nations in Asia and Africa, given that they import a lot of their food from russia.
It is an example of what happens when academia is run by ideology rather than empiricism. There are some worrying parallels to American academia and the current scandals you are seeing in the social sciences. A lot of those “scientists” are ideologues without the first clue what science actually is
@@ElectronFieldPulse I agree it’s worrisome and I don’t consider myself on the right side of the political spectrum in the U.S. as it stands today (a subject unto itself!). You might say I’m a moderate pragmatist. But I abhor any manner of “correct” thinking, whether demanded by political ideology, religion or other manner of enforced herd mentality. I applaud those who point out examples of what you describe, when done without dog-whistle, wink wink, hidden agendas. There was a piece in The Atlantic, I think, some years back that exposed the existence of biased group think in the world of peer-reviewed, hard science academic journals. The point being that even in that world, which tends not to get involved in overt political/ideological battles, there is a human tendency toward herd thinking that can fail to question fudged data. It’s important to be vigilant and question authority of whatever kind. All that said, I’ve seen some good faith, intelligent observers on the left and right (now considered moderate, I suppose) who point out dangerously rigid thinking that’s intolerant of intelligent, critical discourse. The “canceling” going on these days (and, yes, it occurs on the left and right) is dangerously creepy. Don’t get me started on the social sciences. While some of it may be worthwhile to ponder and might even advance understanding of complex human interactions, it’s definitely not science.
non of which matters, but what matters is the entire west is run EXACTLY this way today in EVERY field & discipline
I live in Kazakhstan, it's refreshing to hear someone even mention the tragedy of famine in post Soviet counties. Thanks for spreading the word
They called it the Holodomor in Ukraine. It hit Kazakhstan a few years earlier I think, it was called the Goloshchyokin genocide, named after the Communist party leader in Kazakhstan at the time.
The way he worded felt like Holodomor was "natural" or "fucky wucky" by communists and not a deliberate genocide like in Kazakhstan too.
@@MrDaol23the word holocaust was first used by Karl Marx I’m pretty sure
And now the famine creators are on the move again it seems,farmers under restrictions, supply chain disfunction, plans to feed people bugs,the suppression of livestock production, created malnutrition etc etc.
Ukraine is an agricultural country and produced grain for the entire USSR, and the USSR was a major grain escort abroad
Even with an inefficient farming system, there was enough food in Ukraine to support itself
The USSR created repressive laws such as the "Law of Spikelets" which prohibited the use of available grain and required food coupons
Even before the famine, as of May 17, 1932, there were no flour reserves in Ukraine, as evidenced by the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "On Measures to Implement the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on Food Aid to Ukraine": out of 6.5 million poods of grain released to Ukraine, the Politburo requested that 1.5 million be imported in flour, "in view of the complete absence of flour reserves in Ukraine."
it was taken away from ukraine
Not only grain, but also other foodstuffs, including food surrogates that were of little use and unfit for consumption. Not all peasants died of starvation when the procurement agencies pumped out all the bread, as even the poorest peasant households had other foodstuffs left over. The picture changed when the state resorted to confiscating food from all "debtors," i.e., the authorities carried out a terror of starvation against the "debtors." It was the confiscation of all food that caused the famine to turn into the Holodomor.
Stalin had an obsessive idea that Ukrainians were hiding grain or living too richly, and he decided to kill them.
(or he was a Ukrainophobe)
The NKVD army surrounded the border along Russia and Belarus to restrict people from traveling, because the famine was only in the Hetnic lands of Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
Timothy Snyder, an American historian and professor at Yale University, talks about this in the 15th lecture of his course on Ukraine ua-cam.com/video/1dy7Mrqy1AY/v-deo.html.
Of course, such repressive laws were passed not in Ukraine, but in the capital of the USSR, Moscow.
You can also see more details in the Ukrainian video. UA-cam Channel - Toronto TV
ua-cam.com/video/SnvR7HeyzTA/v-deo.html
A friend of mine used to say "Drink up, there are children sober in Europe!"
Even in France?
Here in the UK most of 'em are on the booze.
And the better for it
@@Wulfyr Judging by how some of the streets I've walked down recently have smelled, it ain't booze anymore...
That was me. I was a bouncer
I read about the chinese famine in the book Wild Swans. The author was a child in china at the time. She talks about the horrific things her parents witnessed and how even though they were well off for the time, her parents still starved themselves to keep the children full. The things that happened during that famine were appalling
The truly horrible part is that's only the tiny part we know about. There were repeated famines and crop shortages throughout the 20th and 21st century, but it never gets reported. The average height dropped by 2 to 3 centimeters in height for multiple generations. That doesn't occur from one short 2 year problem. It's a systematic means of control through denial of resources. There have been some truly horrific tales coming from the Muslim minority population.
This is an amazing three-generation account from one family-grandmother, mother and then the author herself. Because of this multi-generation linear account, we get a much more full idea of the way this chunk of China's history came about and why it is the way it is today. One of the saddest things mentioned (among many, many others) was the amount of China's written history that was destroyed at that time (the 1960's) by Red Guards under Mao's dictatorship.
"All that is a lie fabricated by capitalists." - American Schools
I saw her give a reading at Prairie Lights bookstore in Iowa City. amazing stories and an impressive woman...she didn't seem to be bitter or resentful an was generally well grounded for a writer 😋. it was hard to listen to because she was there and experienced it this emoted the experience as she read.
✌🏻
I thought of that book too.
The fact that Lysenko is popular again demonstrates the extent to which Russia has fallen victim to its own propaganda. He demonstrably set back Soviet agriculture decades, caused it to become a net importer of food when it could have been either food secure or an exporter. We know that because Russia right now is a net exporter of food, or at least they were prior to the Invasion of Ukraine, I dunno if they still are. It goes without saying that they benefited enormously from that. Thus there is no rational political reason for trying to rehabilitate Lysenko. Not even as a means of destabilizing the west, since he was always ignored there.
I thought the notion of Russian propaganda infecting the West was exaggerated until I saw non-Russians using Russian flag emojis throughout Xter or whatever it's called now, Tucker Carlson going there and openly praising Putin's society, and serious efforts to prop up one of the deadliest men of the previous century.
He isnt popular though the videos gives you a false notion that he is becoming popular again. Like how do you think russia has become the number 1 exporter of grain in the world despite having less arable land than many other nations ?
Russia was steadily becoming not just a big player in terms of food and grian export but a unbeatable behemoth especially after sanctions began in 2014, the country saw massive effort from the leadership to cut any economic reliance on the west that can be cut loose.
They told themselves why rely on others when we can make a lot of the stuff we import on our own and thus a process to make the country more sovereign and free strengthen the rigidity and endurance of the economy began.The results well we can see for ourselves, growth, positive industrialisation and the ability to take hits and repair. This isnt autarky as russia still relies heavily on trade like any other country instead they focused on trading only with reliable partners countries which would not give a rats a*s about your politics or whether you are in a war or not.
btw , 'Lysenko' - is ukranian name.
Sadly there were times when Lysenko was popular in the west.
And Russia still is one of the biggest producers of food in the world. I don't know why someone would bring back Lysenko's terrible ideas though.
@@dmitry4c996 surname not name. His name is Trofim
My mother used the 'Starving children in Africa' version.
It wasn't that I didn't like the food she made, it was the quantity she put on the plate, starting the threats when I was so full I felt sick.
It didn't matter how much I told her I was full, she would threaten to backhand me - her ringed fingers like knuckledusters. (I bet many a person on this comments section knows exactly what it's like to get a sharp engagement ring slapped across the cheek).
Looking around at the high number of partly finished kids meals in my local café, I would say that 90% of people just don't understand that a child can get by on a lot less food than they generally put on their plates.
As a consequence of my mother's bullying tactics, I decided to parent 'differently.' From the beginning, I would put just a small amount of food on my son's plate and instructed him to 'tell' me 'if' he wanted some more.
He has never had any food issues during his life so far (age 28), maintaining a good, steady average weight throughout - unlike me who has zipped up and down the scales due to crash diets and binges.
That's terrible. Both your mother's abuse (yes, that is abuse), and your weight fluctuation. Being fat is bad for the body, but is actually preferable to changing weight frequently. It puts more stress in your body than being overweight, so you might consider settling for being overweight instead of that, although ideally a slow but steady diet would be best.
I was always beaten severely and forced to stay at the table until I finished. If I didn't, beaten again. I was shamed and ridiculed by my family for being skinny and forcefed mysekf until skinny fat, so still a size zero just very unhealthy fat percentage. At 18 I accepted myself and stopped. Still a size 0 but I don't hate my body or food. Thank you for treating your child so wonderfully
As a nutritionist I am so glad you learned from your childhood and gave your child a good foundation for healthy eating. If you give a good variety of healthy (and of course indulgent) foods, you'll be able to self-manage and eat responsibly. A lot of people have quite messed up hunger cues because they're taught that bloat=full which causes stomachs to stretch out over the years needing more and more food. My husband had to relearn when he met me and now is able to eat much happier and even say no when more food is offered if it'll make him feel sick :)
Your parenting is a lot better. I grew up with a sort of mixture of the two. Like your son, I was served a little, I would have to ask for more myself. But I was obliged to eat whatever I put on my plate. And if I did change my mind, the response could be that in other places children were starving, so I shouldn't waste my own food. And certainly there was no desert for me if I didn't finish the main dish. I couldn't ditch 3 potatoes in favour of having room for icecream. Then I shouldn't have taken so many potatoes in the first place. I can only remember twice that I had no room for desert. I learned to take on my plate only what I needed, when it was needed.
My childhood, and on occasion having tried to starve during long travels, has taught me always to eat my food, on my plate as well as in my home. Food I can't eat now, I keep for later. I never throw away good food. And I hardly have any food disposals at all. I only have, and prepare, what I eat.
If my dad was out of town and I didn't eat fast enough, my food was put in the blender and I had to drink that or tabasco sauce. If he was in town, I was allowed to toss it once I'd eaten enough. I thought he was aware, but he found out just a couple of years ago and was PISSED. If he still spoke to my mom or had her phone number, shit would've hit the fan even though I'm in my 30s. My sisters and I have all had to reassess our relationships with food over the years. Even now, I feel awful if I don't eat every last scrap of food on my plate. With my sisters' kids, "take another bite of the veggies, then you can be done" is pretty much it when they want to stop eating.
The unexpected generational gap of “there are starving kids in Africa” and “there are starving kids in China.”
Lol I thought it was a Mandela effect till I came to the comments 😂😂😂
@@pettykittyfam It's just him being PC it's always been starving kids in Africa
@@HighOnPoint412how is it more pc that the starving kids be in China??? It's starving kids, it's not pc either way lol
@@HighOnPoint412*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER* in the John Lennon song “Nobody Told Me” he says “they’re starving back in china”
the song is about him raising his youngest son, so it can be assumed that the line is him talking to Sean
Right?! I was born in 96 and I always heard starving kids in Africa! For reference my parents were born in 63 and 65.
One thing to remember about the "wealthier farmers" is that they were just that, "wealthier" not wealthy. Maybe their small house was made of something fancy like brick or plastered wood rather than compacted earth or plain wood, roof tiles instead of straw, maybe an extra room. Excesses like that.
Communism ran like a marine boot camp. Break down the individual and then rebuild him as a marine.
A few more cows than average. Being able to pay one person to help get the crop in at harvest time. As you say,any small differential of wealth was enough to make one's family a target.
the Kulaks were essentially the most successful farmers. no farmer in the soviet union was "rich" in fact none of them had anything approaching generational wealth, until the 1919 revolution the farms were essentially owned by the nobility and the peasants leased the land at rates that effectively made them slaves of the landed nobility. so by the late 20s and early 30s the "wealthy" farmers were generally the best farmer in the area. the industrious, hard working, disciplined, skilled and intelligent ones. So when the soviets rounded them up and killed them all (usually being denounced as enemies of the people/state buy their jealous less industrious neighbors) they effectively killed all the farmers who knew how to... you know farm. and handed thier land over to people who were lazy drunks who mostly were failures at life and never worked a day in thier life.
@@arizona_anime_fanA certain Mr Gates would seem to prefer the soviet model.
@@alihenderson5910 Along with many Republicans, I mean reactionaries, which is what Republicans are.
1:29 the graph is literally sadam husseins hiding spot
😂
Africa. My mom always said kids in Africa. And there are still lots of people starving in Africa today.
OT: Can't believe I never heard of this famine before!
Exactly. Kind of tripped me out he went China when 1000% everything was starving kids in Africa. All over the TV. Flies buzzing around the starving kids. Sally Struthers, everything....
@@carltuckerson7718 100% I remember those Ethopian children. But if Joe said Africa, there's a good chance that a mob would form.
Same here, my parents always said starving children in Africa
Well, you are not from the US is my guess, let's remember the US had the 'red scare' which probably really, euh.. convinced, people communist country bad, thus also China bad.
Depends on age I would assume. My parents said China and Africa. But Africa was starving in the 80s and 90s. So anybody younger than 50 probably heard Africa. African famines were also similar in collectivization and state control of agriculture caused famine.
Interesting, I live in post Warsaw Pact country, and I have never heard about "eat your food because kids in China are starving". I heard it, but not about China, but about Africa. Maybe since China was/ is communist, saying that kids are starving in China was politically dangerous, so our parents were saying it about Africa instead.
And about main topic, it is crazy, that people try to rehabilitate him. And parallels between him and current anti science/ pseudo science movement is terrifying.
Saying starving children in Africa is pretty common in the US as well. My parents said children in Haiti, but I think that was because our church worked with a charity in Haiti.
I'm American, my parents also used the starving kids in Africa line, when I was growing up also was around the time of the Somali food crisis and the failed us intervention in Somalia.. So I imagine Africa was more topical at that time.
These days I still use that phrase, but instead of saying Africa, China I say the name of a local town as I feel that has more impact. Instead of some far away place.
Pseudo science movements today like gender ideology are very concerning.
The parallels that are terrifying is not that pseudoscience and anti science is a thing in society. It always has been.
The terrifying thing is that we have state sanctioned scientists that can not be questioned, and artificial consensus by means of silencing any opposition.
Just take a look at Anthony "I am the science" Fauchi. Take a look at the mRNA vaccines and the attempts to silence and shame anyone with concerns.
The danger comes not from the individuals with different ideas, but from individuals given state power to force those ideas on others.
that's right... if you throw your food away, the same amount of food will be forcefully removed from the mouths of hungry kids on the other side of the world. and you will be directly responsible for that. now force yourself to eat that can of spaghetti-o's even though you are full from the preservatives
To the editor: The background music makes it so that i can hardly understand Joe at times.
It is kinda on top isn't it 👂🏻👍🏻
Just wrote the same, sorry, didn’t see your post… 😂
On my phone it isn't that bad... If your on a computer turn down your bass maybe.... But yeah it's just the worst when videos are like that.
Also discussing a crazy amount of deaths with background elevator music makes my soul itch.
Sorry Joe, I really don't like the background music. Super distracting.
Cows treated well do give more milk, in addition to having to have good genes and good food and clean water. About planting crops too close together, there is a farmer saying: "A given crop is its own worst weed."
Another point about planting to close, is it would work; on a small scale, *if you selected seed from the few plants that thrived* which would literally be selecting the few plants that genetically were capable of thriving in a over crowded reduced nutrient environment.
But of course, that is not what they were doing.
@@Vikingwerk Effectively, that's what millennia of agriculture has done, compared to the wild types that our crops have come from. But ultimately there's no free lunch--the plants must have a minimum of everything they need to thrive, and members of the same species are competing for the same nutrients. Photosynthesis allows them to "cheat" by getting carbon from the air, and legumes "cheat" by getting bacteria in their roots to wrestle nitrogen from the air. Everything else must come from the soil.
True, but this is one of those things that is just coincidentally true rather than correlating with his ideas. I think it's important to say "Cows treated well do give more milk, because hormones control milk production and a healthy, well treated cow can create more of the required hormones to produce milk. Not because their genetics are being changed."
@@Tawleyn No one with any biologic knowledge would associate good treatment in life with changing genes. There's no mechanism for that. The good genes I'm referring to are from a century of selective breeding facilitated by the first AI, artificial insemination. Meticulous record keeping about which cows give more milk and who their calves are, plus frozen bull semen of those calves when mature, allow the genetic heritage of high milking cows to be artificially selected for. Milk production in the US went from 30 lbs per cow per day to about 90 lbs per cow per day during the 20th Century, partly from better nutrition, but in large part because of selective breeding. Lysenko would deny this obvious fact.
That's because their bodies need nutrients to produce milk. Cells can't make new molecules out of nothing. And if the cow gets sick she stops producing milk because the body prioritizes fighting off an infection than spending resources on producing milk which is not a priority
In the UK my mum used the “starving children in Africa” line. But there were actually children starving in Biafra at the time, so she kind of had a point.
Heard that all the time too, and used to tell my own children the same thing when they wouldn't eat their greens. The Sahel Belt has been an on-and-off humanitarian crisis for decades though, so "starving children in Africa"-line is sadly correct.
Ukraine is an agricultural country and produced grain for the entire USSR, and the USSR was a major grain escort abroad
Even with an inefficient farming system, there was enough food in Ukraine to support itself
The USSR created repressive laws such as the "Law of Spikelets" which prohibited the use of available grain and required food coupons
Even before the famine, as of May 17, 1932, there were no flour reserves in Ukraine, as evidenced by the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "On Measures to Implement the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on Food Aid to Ukraine": out of 6.5 million poods of grain released to Ukraine, the Politburo requested that 1.5 million be imported in flour, "in view of the complete absence of flour reserves in Ukraine."
it was taken away from ukraine
Not only grain, but also other foodstuffs, including food surrogates that were of little use and unfit for consumption. Not all peasants died of starvation when the procurement agencies pumped out all the bread, as even the poorest peasant households had other foodstuffs left over. The picture changed when the state resorted to confiscating food from all "debtors," i.e., the authorities carried out a terror of starvation against the "debtors." It was the confiscation of all food that caused the famine to turn into the Holodomor.
Stalin had an obsessive idea that Ukrainians were hiding grain or living too richly, and he decided to kill them.
(or he was a Ukrainophobe)
The NKVD army surrounded the border along Russia and Belarus to restrict people from traveling, because the famine was only in the Hetnic lands of Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
Timothy Snyder, an American historian and professor at Yale University, talks about this in the 15th lecture of his course on Ukraine ua-cam.com/video/1dy7Mrqy1AY/v-deo.html.
Of course, such repressive laws were passed not in Ukraine, but in the capital of the USSR, Moscow.
You can also see more details in the Ukrainian video. UA-cam Channel - Toronto TV
ua-cam.com/video/SnvR7HeyzTA/v-deo.html
Yeah, I remember my mum using the Africa line, it was because we all knew about places like Ethiopia thanks to charity telethons. The "starving children in Africa" line then gave birth to dozens of politically incorrect jokes like "What's the fastest thing on Earth? .. an Ethiopian with a can of beans. What's the second fastest? The other Ethiopian chasing him with a can opener."
pretty sure somalia is going through a famine right now so it's still relevant
these days I mostly keep hearing a "starving pensioners in the UK" line.
This is one of your best in awhile.
Nice
Nice
👍
Super
Hello
Love ya Joe.
The background music however is distracting, not working for me. Especially ominous Stalin music. I like the idea but it's better just letting us here you speak man!
Thanks appreciate all your vids!
Many, many years ago, while I was earning my MBA, I had a roommate from China. She spent Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc, with my family. She was shocked at what many things cost here. After she returned home, I received a box from China filled with new clothes she bought for me and some trinkets she thought I might enjoy. Having also heard the "starving children in China" comment frequently as a child plus seeing the TV commercials for sending Care packages to China. So, I was both touched by her thoughfulness in sending me her gifts from China, but I was very aware I'd been sent a Care package from China to help me here in the US. Diane, using Joe's tablet.
"to be fair to Lysenko" I don't think anyone owes that guy a single thing, my dude. you're good.
Lysenko was used in my horticulture classes as an example of how science and politics did not mix. We were told that he had set agriculture production in Russia back decades.
And yet we mix politics with science in the US and never give it a thought.
Not just agriculture. Medical genetics and a lot of other areas of applied biology.
But but but politicians have guaranteed that MRNA "vaccines" are safe and effective. The media agreed and celebrated the push. They gave immunity for sure, but not for the people that took the "vaccine" but the politicians gave legal immunity to these creators/distributors. Luckily the MSM and politicians give a fair look at the research not (in)directly funded by the manufacturers right? right?
politics is a science
@@RichOrElse It’s a social science, not a hard science.
There is a legend about Lysenko and Landau (a Soviet physicist). Landau asked "if we cut off the right ear of a horse for many generations, at some point we'll get a breed of horses born without the right ear?" Lysenko answered that was true. "And how does your theory explain virgins?" Landau replied
I don't get it
@@AnglephileSwedenGermanLysenko basically was against the concept of genetics and believed that characteristics can be passed down to offspring as long as it has been acquired during the lifetime.
Landau brings up the fallacy with the argument. The act of cutting off the ear doesn’t affect the next generation bc that’s not how genetics get passed down. It doesn’t cause the further generations to have clipped ears and cutting them off doesn’t increase the chances of a breed being born without the right ear.
landau is calling out this logic as it would imply that being a virgin is “inherited” which obviously does not make sense and is not genetic
@@Mommyofmeats lol ok the guy is such a crack pot that I didn't even bother to pay attention to his ridiculous ideas, it seems he is the stubborn type to never change his mind no matter what
Somehow that sounds exactly like something Billy gates would say.
@@Libertybabe he would but also looking at the ponies
When I was a kid it was "starving children in Africa" and I more than once asked "so why don't you send this to them?"
No useful answer, just more bad parenting and shaming.
Vavilov was an absolute hero, he knew that Lysenko's theories would lead to starvation so he argued against them even though going against stalin was a death sentence. He also came up with the idea for the seed bank and set one up in st Petersburg.
Вавилов катался по миру и собирал семена, мечтая о всякой ерунде, а надо было как Лысенко - работать и давать результат, сейчас, немедленно, что Лысенко и делал.
Болтовня для вас важнее людей.
"Going against" Stalin was not a death sentence. Stalin did not have the power to simply murder anyone he didn't like. There are multiple examples of people going against his wishes. Not only people, but multiple examples of the entire government of the USSR going against/voting against his proposals.
@@DonHaka I think you don't know what you're talking about. Sure "going against Stalin" is a simplification in this case. But Stalin could murder basically anyone he wanted.
@@DonHaka yeah NKVD absolutely didn't execute and disappear lists of people for Stalin
@@EEX97623 Unfortunately, there is no evidence that anyone was ever killed purely because Stalin wanted them dead. Again, he didn't even have the power to do that. Stalin didn't control the NKVD, in fact the NKVD did alot of things completely on their own accord.
Now I am not saying that Stalin was an innocent little baby. All I am saying is that because of how the power structure of the USSR WORKED, it would have been impossible for him to just have people killed like that. Stalin didn't have universal, absolute power.
Hi Joe, this is a great video. A bit of feedback, the background music is so loud that it's hard to know what you say several times in the video. I hope it's an easy fix that will improve its enjoyment. It's great information that deserves to be heard! I love your videos!!!
I don't remember it having been distracting before this video, but I didn't even finish listening to this one. It isn't just people who have some hearing loss or older people who have trouble with certain tones, it's also difficult a lot of neurodiverse people who can feel like their attention is being pulled in different directions.
Probably AI generated vid they are more often than you realize
Maybe it's cuz I was watching on my TV but it was actually too quiet for me, and not in a good way either. I kept pausing the video because I couldn't figure out where the distant ominous music was coming from and thinking I was going crazy. I don't remember any other of his videos having bg music and i feel that it better matches the style of the videos.
also came here to say this, the intro music was also weirdly mixed loud
I came here to say this. It's a combination of several things: Joe's voice volume is too dynamic, the music is too loud, and the script goes too fast to understand the generated subtitles with the picture. I have conductive hearing loss, which means speech is difficult to hear if there is other noise present. I'm listening on good headphones. This is the first video from Joe that has given me these issues though. Thank you!
What the Hell is this cheerful music of sheer dread overpowering your voice Joe?
My mother’s father my grandpa,who was Ukrainian escaped Soviet Union 1936 after surviving the Holodomor couple of years before.Much of his family died.Made it to America in 1938.Anyway I remember as a kid the adults talking about the Holodomor and horrific other events back then.
🇺🇸✊🇺🇦
stand with Ukraine from China
The so-called "holodomor" is a complete fabrication. There is literally zero evidence that ethnic ukrainians were purposefully targeted in any way. Even more damning for ukrainian nationalists is the fact that the famine (which was supposedly targeted specifically at the ukrainians) affected the entire Soviet Union! That's crazy!
Not to mention that the origins of the myth of the so-called "holodomor" comes from literal Nazis and fascist media such as the OUN, William Randolph Hearst and other fascist-sympathizers.
When I was brought up, the "starving children in China" line was the attack vector used by most parents. Then I come here and my wife was told *in the same time frame* that *she* had to eat up because there were "starving children in capitalist countries" who wished they could have it.
Yeah but what capitalist county had a great famine that killed tens of millions
Where is here? North Korea?
North korea, home of such foods as coffee (b4 this americans just drank cups of snow) or hamburgers (invented by kim jung il personally)
@@ytcensorhack1876 He said "but when I came here". Since here isnt a specific place, it's subjective, it was a valid question. BTW, Kim Jung Il also invented the planet, so we should all be thanking him.
Here in Europe we say 'Africa'. You know, where there are actually a bunch of starving children, not just due to propaganda
You only touched on Nikolai Vavilov, who was Lysenko's teacher, and actually a very good biologist.
Vavilov set up seed banks, and one was in Leningrad, where biologists fought to save the seeds from starving citizens.
He died because of Lysenko, his own student. It took years for his legacy to be recognized by the Soviet State. Thanks to Khrushchev, he's now recognized as a hero of the Soviet Union.
Speaking of which, several Soviet soldiers gave their lives to defend the seed bank during the Siege of Leningrad, refusing to eat the seeds even when the city faced starvation.
Wasn't Lysenko a disciple of Ivan Michurin, the guy who invented the best apple species in the world?
@@richardfan7157 Not just soldiers, but the actual seed bank scientists and researchers starved while surrounded by and protecting huge amounts of things like rice.
Interestingly, there are some crops that actually DO grow best when crowded, like wheat and corn. If you try to plant your corn in rows too far apart, you won't get any heads because they are only pollinated by wind, but not very well. They have to be grown in clusters to get properly fertilized. And of course, the famous "Three Sisters" polyculture is very crowded, because each hole has three seeds in it: Corn, bean, and squash. It's amazingly effective, keeps the soil from drying out (squash leaves cover the bare soil, preventing water and CO2 loss), the beans add nitrogen to the soil (when the plants died back, they were often left to rot in situ, which is how atmospheric N2 gets reincorporated into the soil), and fruits from the three plants provided almost a complete protein profile (add some wild game, and you've got your missing B12). That sort of polyculture also reduced the need for weeding, as its harder for weeds to grow when almost all the available sun space was taken up. It also reduced some insect pests, as it's harder for them to locate squash and beans amidst the corn. But some fungal diseases could spread more rapidly if there was too much rain late in the season. However, this sort of careful polyculture was not a part of Lysenko's repertoire, and he likely would have rejected them, as they came from "The West" (Courtesy of many Eastern Woodlands nations in North America).
It's the same with the cows, treating them better will net you some gains regarding milk production and weight for meat. They aren't unlimited and they don't pass down genetically. You just get a modest, limited gain for your efforts and it makes you a more ethical producer when you treat your animals better.
@@emilala9049 Very true! Paying attention to the ecological niche and behavioral ecology of the organism you're trying to raise - be it plant or animal - often times increases your gains. But the key thing is, YOU have to make an effort to adapt to THEM. Some stress is good and can increase adaptability, but overstressing the organism (like keeping cows in overcrowded CAFOs, or planting seeds too deep) is generally bad for the organism and reduces gains.
@@karlwithak. Ignoring ecology has never worked out for very long in agriculture. The gains we made in production during the "green revolution" are now almost entirely mitigated by evolutionary adaptation by various crop pests, and fertilizer is getting more expensive because we may be running out of phosphorus - which, unlike oil, we have no alternatives to. It's the second most limiting nutrient for plants after nitrogen, and our current methods of industrial agriculture may mean that we hit peak phosphorus by around 2030. And the phosphorus cycle is slow, as it gets deposited into rocks that we then mine.
@@rachelwebber3605 Not to mention the state of the aquifers around the US (can't speak for anywhere else, but I bet we're not the only country with depleted aquifers). In a great many places that we used to consider prime farming land the wells are beginning to pump less water or run dry altogether. It took thousands of years to fill these aquifers, we're maybe a decade or 15 years before we'll be pumping the lot of them dry, and those will just be the ones that didn't collapse sooner.
We should be looking for hardier varietals now. Going back into the heirloom seeds, looking for something that puts down deeper roots and has some resistance to drought. You could cross pollinate to enhance the qualities you wanted, like tolerance to temperature variations, higher yield, whatever. The problem is you can really only adapt, if you start adapting right now and a lot of people are really set in their ways.
@@emilala9049 A lot of countries that underwent colonialism have depleted reservoirs and soils due to colonists importing agricultural processes that are not adapted to the specific region. What we should be doing is looking at what the practices of last culture in the area was before colonization, determine if it was sustainable practice (not all cultures in a given area had sustainable practices), and then reincorporating the best practices and using technology to augment and improve on them.
Only a government could imagine that the government knows more about productive farming than farmers.
I mean that happens today in africa where efficient methods are ignored because if a farmer does better than the others it gets robbed as vengeance
Stalin and the party elevated Lysenko specifically because he was a farmer and not some ivory tower intellectual.
government is the people. it's not like Lysenko was some kind of blue blood who never touched a shovel.
@@JewTube001 and what do you think what blue bloods were before they became blue bloods? Their ancestors if you go back long enough were just simple peasents too, until one of them achieved something in their life which made the family achieve its rank and status... so, you are right BUT also wrong about Lysenko not beeing some kind of blue blood... he wasnt when he born, but he BECAME a blue blooded member of the nomenclature, who never touched a shovel after that... Out with the Old Nobility, in with the New Nobility, a story which happened countless times in history... but unlike countless other times in history the Soviets and communist dont even have the intelectual honesty to admit it
Nope @@attilaedem101
My folks never used the 'starving children elsewhere ' guilt trip. They just said, " Eat it, or you will wish that you had!"😊No guilt trips, just straight-up threats of violence 😂
My mom always told me that if I didn’t eat, I’d end up in the hospital with horribly low blood sugars.
Which was accurate. Diabetes backed up Mom’s statements.
And that’s why I don’t like eating and kind of have to be bullied into eating now. At 32!
@stizelswik3694 only one?
I didn’t use any… I’m a one-man hurricane when set loose in a kitchen
LOL. I just told my son, "this is what's for dinner. Eat it or go hungry!" He generally ate it. 🤣
As a child growing up in a family of eight other siblings, you ate or you missed out because one of the other kids would eat the food off your plate. I chose to have one child and because I knew that they didn't like cooked carrots, I gave her raw carrots. She didn't like boiled veges, so I stir fried them. I tried to never make an issue of food in any way because
I was concerned about eating disorders that were prevalent as she was growing up in the 1990s. And still are.
@@annakeye I mainly went by the very-wise Dr. Spock's book of baby and childcare -- if the kid doesn't want to eat whatever, just go on to the next thing. Then ask them to try it again some time later, etc. It worked well in most cases. But he still hates broccoli, damn it. 🤣
When my parents told me about the starving kids in Africa I always thought “how does me eating this help? Give it to them then!”. I still believe that’s the most logical answer
Well, first you've got to transport it thousands of miles away, probably across an ocean, into a country with very few refrigerated trucks and terrible infrastructure. Then you've got to avoid it being stolen by local watlords or organized crime. And even if you succeed at that, you haven't fixed the underlying problem that people in that region can't sustain thenselves and will immediately start starving again the moment people from another continent stop shipping them food at enormous expense. If you actually want to help people, better to ask "why were they starving in the first place and how might I fix THAT" rather than giving them food. That's why, after hundreds of billions of dollars thrown at the problem, there are still starving children. If it was so simple as "well give them some food then, idiots!" it would have been solved ages ago.
I think it's actually a lot less scary and depressing to assume people in wealthier countries are just greedy and heartless and don't care. Acknowledging that the problem is actually difficult enough that people have tried everything that's commonly suggested and failed is a lot scarier.
@@loganwolfram4216Basically the issue with most government handouts, they don't solve the fundamental issues, just address the symptoms at an extreme cost.
@@holy3979 Which is still better than doing nothing, if solving the fundamental issues is not an option.
okay can you cover my rent from now on then?@@lonestarr1490
I did the same - repeatedly, and never understood why it always resulted in a smack.
I wonder when the China-Africa switch happened, and if it was the same everywhere. (I don't remember my grandparents ever referencing starving children in China, though they did occasionally use outdated versions of other phrases...)
For me it was my maternal grandmother and it was Ethiopia.
I also believe this verbal abuse led directly to eating more than my fill and ignoring my body's signals that it was full and done eating and that uncomfortably-overfull feeling was normal which led to me being at least 100lbs overweight as a teen and Type-II Diabetes as early as my 30s and me struggling to manage my A1C and loose weight in my 40s.
I've just added a similar comment. I developed food issues and went on crazy diets with punishing exercise routines that ended up helping to further damage my joints (since I was already a gardener and didn't need the extra exercise).
If he didn't follow the Scientific Method, he was never a scientist. Calling him one undermines science.
“I am the science”
@@kathrineici9811not yet
"dr" fauxi
Murder itself is not science.
Scientific Method as defined by who?
The great famine in China largely happened because Mao would require unrealistic productivity (like in yhe USSR) but since China is a face-saving culture, the local government leaders would lie about their numbers. Then Mao, thinking there was a surplus of food, exported huge amounts to other countries. It was a classic example of how disasterous centralized planning can be.
I think the main problem described has to do with lies, rather than centralized planning. Non-centralized planning based systems also have the potential to fail spectacularly in various ways when relying on lies. Garbage in = garbage out.
Basically, lies destabilize the future. When someone relies on a lie to make decisions that will effect the future, those decisions are inevitably sub-optimal when based on trashy and/or intentionally incorrect input data. This typically results in sub-optimal outcomes, sometimes spectacularly so.
At the moment, it would appear that the US government is probably lying about employment numbers and economic health. Some of the economic numbers that they are publishing do not make sense anymore and are not self consistent. If one pays attention to Joe Biden's speeches and Twitter account postings, he would basically have you believe that "Bidenomics" is working great, the economy is in excellent health, the economic future of the US is bright, unemployment is low, jobs creation is strong, everything about Biden's handling of things is profoundly awesome, etc.
In actual reality, the US government most likely is lying about economic numbers, and the economy is not as strong as they claim, due to the natural consequences of high inflation due to COVID-19 policy associated money printing, followed by high interest rates. Consequently, many people are being squeezed and are having a hard time paying their bills, largely due to eroded purchasing power due to major inflation, and partly because of general economic weakness. Such conclusions would not be obvious if one trusts and believes the US government's "official" economic numbers and narrative, which paints an abnormally rosy picture.
Meanwhile, the US Federal Reserve (the "Fed") is seemingly relying on the lying US government economic narrative (of a strong economy, with high employment, and good future outlook), and they appear to be trusting this false narrative, so much so that they have jacked up the interest rates very rapidly and quite far. The Fed appears to be assuming that the economy actually is strong and can handle the increased headwinds associated with high interest rates.
In practice, this is likely a very wrong conclusion, based on trusting the economic and labor statistic lies of the US government. It may be that the high interest rates, combined with the weak overall economy, combined with already distressed banks (due to the Fed also removing money from the M2 money supply by way of shrinking its "balance sheet"), combined with other actions (like turning back on student loan repayments), could lead to widespread debt defaults and possible banking failure. The Fed may be setting the US up for major economic instability and probable catastrophe, and they are either doing it due to profound incompetence, unintentional but still major incompetence (due to relying on economic number lies of the US government), and/or intentional malfeasance.
It may be that the US government and the US Fed actively and intentionally want people to be poor, so that they consume less energy, so as to reduce CO2 emissions, in an effort to try to help "solve" looming climate change related problems. Joe Biden has claimed in at least one speech that he considers climate change to be a bigger overall concern, than nuclear war.
But the problem isn't necessarily centralized planning, but the face-saving culture!
China just like the USSR didn't and doesn't give a damn about people. North Korea doesn't either. Their leaders all have food.
Mao caused the famine. Selling the food was incidental to all the other causes.
Mao pushed agricultural collectivization and placed military leaders in charge. These leaders had little to no knowledge of agriculture.
Mao pushed the farmers to plant more than one rice crop a year, even when he was told the weather didn’t support it.
Mao ordered deeper plowing of the soil, which destroyed the topsoil.
Mao ordered farmers to plant seeds closer together - not allowing them the breathing space they needed.
Mao ordered the killing of birds (sparrows) because they ate grain seeds. According to FEE, “In what is one of the most bizarre and ecologically damaging episodes of the Great Leap Forward, the country was mobilized in an all-out war against the birds. Banging on drums, clashing pots or beating gongs, a giant din was raised to keep the sparrows flying till they were so exhausted that they simply dropped from the sky. Eggs were broken and nestlings destroyed; the birds were also shot out of the air.” Without birds, the locusts and grasshoppers were free to devour crops.
Mao militarized agriculture with forced military-like routines for farming.
Human waste was used as fertilizer.
Farming tools were melted down for steel, disabling production.
@@jamesp3902 Amazing how much these things sound like Lysenko's ideas. Isnt it funny how two people can come to the same conclusion? It's almost like Mao was basing these choices on the ideas of Lysenko. Coincidence, right?
Feedback for the audio:
The threatening soundtrack used when Stalin was presented was too loud compared to your voice. Later the optimistic audio track when presenting the scientist felt misplaced, because of the context of this scientist causing so much death. The first point is about audio mastering, the second is about audio track choice...
I fully agree, it was distracting both times. Other than that I love the video as with all your content!
I also noticed the past few videos Joe’s voice has been kinda echoey or something. Not a dealbreaker but definitely distracting.
turn that atmospheric track during Stalin down like 4db LMFAO
To Joe: There wasn't any problem with your videos without the music. IMO the music is just disturbing. Still, apart from the melodic bit your vids are great.😊
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Doesn't really need the music at all.
To be clear about the cows, they do produce more milk when they are treated well, but the effect is not nearly as big as genetics and hormone levels. If you have a low milk-producing cow, and she isn't sick or underfed, pampering her isn't really going to make a big enough difference to validate keeping her in the herd.
But pampering your cow is fun
@@kiltedcripple absolutely still pamper your cows!!! They're so cute and they deserve it 🥰
Yes, but it will make her happy. And a happy cow is ... well ... a happy cow. ;)
Don't you dare talk about eating Peppa
If the Soviets had been told that starving & beating cows would increase milk yield, they would have done that, so the cows had something to be grateful for.
I'm 62 years old. I was born and raised in West Virginia with three siblings. My mother never told us there were starving kids in other countries to convince us to eat our food.
She was too busy trying to take care of us and making sure we had enough to eat. She raised a garden and she had chickens.
Sometimes I think she was worried there was a mother somewhere in Africa standing over her kids with her arms crossed telling them they better clean their plates because there are starving kids in America who would be happy to have that. She didn't want to be the one they were talking about.
Sometimes I know she didn't eat to make sure we did.
I think Thomas Midgley, of leaded gas and CFCs fame, is a strong contender for being worse. Some estimates put his death toll as high as 100 million. And who knows what else he may have come up with if he didn't end up being done in by another of his own inventions, a pulley system designed to help him get out of bed.
Yeah, I don't want to defend either Midgley or Lysenko, but I think it's worth pointing out that neither of them were in such a position of power that they can be held up as the singular cause of the mass deaths. For Lysenko, it's Stalin, Mao, and Communism in general. For Midgley, it's the various industry execs and politicians who greenlit his inventions. But even if you only allocate them 1% of the responsibility for the impact, being personally responsible for 1M deaths is a hell of a thing.
At least his inventions worked.
I was going to say exactly the same thing. I wasn't sure of the estimated deaths but know it will be high 👍
Veristasium video right? And it was also a great video on the same topic
@@jon_j__I was going to say this exact thing, but probably less eloquently. We shouldn’t say they weren’t terrible, they were, just that it’s only partially their fault. You need poor leadership and poor ideas to get these types of tragedies.
One of my grade school teachers used the "starving children" argument on me once. My response was, "So they'll starve if we eat all the food?" She didn't use it again after that.
Loved the video, but the music was very loud at times which made it more difficult to follow what was being said. Not sure if that was just me but wanted to let you know!
Not just you. Sounds wrong.
Yeah, very off putting.
You're right. The background music was unnecessary.
Yeah, the music was very distracting in this video. Didn't fit and was often too loud.
Yeah, music was far too loud.
Of all the people Behind the Bastards has covered, Lysenko has one of the highest kill counts as he shares most of both Stalin and Mao's kill counts.
I first learned of Lysenko just over 50 years ago in my mid teens while in High School. I've come to find that there are two broad categories of people. Those who are good examples and those who are bad. Much can be learned from the study of each type. Needless to say, the study of Lysenko's example tells us to beware when politics and science bed down together.
Yes- climate hysterics, wu-flu hysterics, lying gender hysterics etc. etc. they form what one might call "The Beast" system.
We didn't put them in bed together, we fund science through politics. It's basically the same system that the Soviets had.
@@neilreynolds3858 If by "we" you mean "Americans", then yes. Breaking news: America is not the only country in the world!
@@neilreynolds3858 Its not politics if a private company pays for it.
This was a case of BAD science though. But yes I agree, learn from both good and bad examples.
There’s a story from Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago, where a worker was given a Communist party award for his hard labor. When asked how he felt about his award, he joked that a little more food would be better than an award.
He was immediately charged with an Article 58 violation and given a 10 year sentence of hard labor.
you don’t make jokes to guards if you’re in the gulag, even if they give you an award
Lmao "Archipelago" was proven to be a collection of fictional tales time and time again.
@@deptusmechanikus7362 The main things about his works that've been debunked with a high degree of certainty are the wildly exaggerated numbers.
Everything else is anybody's game as Soviet Russia, especially of those times, is not very well documented -- as far as anyone without access to Russia's historical archives could possibly know. Also, the Gulag Archipelago resonated with former Gulag inmates immensely, to the point where they couldn't distinguish their lives from what was written there.
If *even* a fraction of what Solzhenitsyn wrote is true it is still enough to condemn the barbarity of the Soviet judicial system, the Gulags, the mentally that led to them, and much more.
@@deptusmechanikus7362 Because you saw a snarky youtube video saying just that. So now it's your unqualified retort to whoever brings it up. Well done. I think most people who talk about it haven't read it, and admittedly it's a bit of a slog and it's easy to put down and not pick up again. Much easier to pretend. Cut and paste opinions, can't beat em. Cheers.
@@deptusmechanikus7362what do you mean by that?
I'm pretty sure the phrase "starving kids in africa" was more popular. My parents said that all the time but it was also said a lot in movies and tv shows. This is the first time ive ever heard of the phrase "starving kids from china"
Yeah, don't let my UA-cam name fool you, it was always starving in Africa for me growing up :)
China was the typical trope for alleged starvation until the 1980s when popular culture shifted attention to the struggles of Africa. For those of us who grew up at a certain time, China was more commonly used as an example of government gone wrong. So while Africa was probably used more during your generation, it was more common to mention China from the 50s through the mid 1980s.
@@VoodooCosmonaut yup. For me it was always China. I grew up in the 70s.
Grew up in the 70s, it was always China. @@VoodooCosmonaut
Me too. However, barring a progressive change, I forsee a day soon when the appropriate idiom will be "Eat your dinner, there are starving kids in Britain who would kill for that". I wish that was just a humourous exaggeration.
I still think Thomas Midgley Jr. was worse. His body count might be harder to track, but the damage he caused to all living organisms on the planet should be unparalleled.
Fritz Haber is up there too for basically inventing chemical warfare.
No dude, stop protecting the commie.
@@russelltaylor535 Ehhh. Unlike these other examples, though, Haber is *also* responsible for the enormous uptick in food production. Haber was an excellent scientist, he was just also amoral.
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Romans 6.23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
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@@RaptorJesus i think ammonii made more lifes than takenth away
My parents would always say there were starving kids in Africa. I actually found out about China's Great Famine earlier this year. I made a video about it, focusing on the killing, and near extinction, of the sparrows, which was another contributing factor. And, because I'm a wildlife guy, I liked that angle.
Awesome video, Joe.
Thank you for your comment. I just watched it and it was really interesting. I am looking forward to see the rest of your videos aout happier topics :)
@@hafor2846 Thank you so much! I really appreciate that.
Allan Sherman did a funny spoken-word piece about the "clean your plate because there are starving people in China" exhortation. He said words to the effect of, "So I cleaned my plate. Four, five, six times a day. But the people kept starving and I got fat."
He finished up with, "Hail to thee, fat person! You kept us out of war!"
Neither Lysenko himself, nor his ideas are in any way popularized, all his works are considered anti-scientific in Russia.
These stories about "Lysenko's popularity in Russia" are not new, they did not appear after the start of the war, they are already more than 6-7 years old, but I still have not seen a single example proving any popularity of his ideas among anyone in scientific circles or among the Russian authorities.
The last article about Lysenko in the Russian media, dated December 4, 2022, calls Lysenko a "charlatan and obscurantist".
Yes, i was very confused by this. Could not find anything related myself either. My guess is he is trying to sprinkle some "juicy" misinformation related to the current events in an attempt to increase the perceived appeal of the video.
That's a sin... I'd love to see orcs starving. Again.
He didn't say "All russians are Lysenko fans now", it's just what the lunatic fringe is doing.
@@JamesChurchill no, he said that lysenko "is presented as a hero to the russians" and that russia wants to shake science as the "bedrock of the western culture". This claim is at best a delusion and is honestly borderline dehumanizing. With his rhethoric and the putins picture attached, his implication, whether intentional or not, is that it is a state agenda.
And even if i were to assume your point corresponds to what he said in the video, i could not even find any fringe source. He should have provided one in the description like educational channels do, otherwise i have to assume he invented it.
@@Vova__ In Joe's defense, such articles about Lysenko have appeared many times in the press over the past 5 years, mainly in Radio Liberty and its affiliated media, so he just might have stumbled upon them.
Started watching your channel after the Byford Dolphin incident video. subscribed as a result of your thorough breakdown and non sensationalist coverage of that. I'm glad to see that is a trend and not a one off. glad i subscribed. enjoying your videos and they method in which you present them. i know these are older videos, but i still look forward to viewing more.
My parents never used the "Starving children" line on us. They would just say, "Okay. Don't eat it. It will be your breakfast in the morning." It didn't take us long to just shut up and eat - except my oldest sister.. She was always a bit hard headed.
Instead of using guilt they just used outright threats! 😂
This is the way. My mom tried the “starving kids in Africa” line once… I told her she could send my food to Africa then.
After that, she would just cover what we didn’t eat and have us eat it at the next meal and the next meal until it was gone.
For my own kids, I just don’t make them eat foods they don’t want. They eat pretty much everything, but sometimes they’re just not in the mood for some foods… and I get that. If they specifically ask for a special food, they have to eat most of it though. I’m not about to cook a special thing and then have it not eaten 🤨
Normal days get them a choice between two meals. For example:
Breakfast: oatmeal or cereal
Lunch: grilled cheese or pbj
Dinner: noodles and red sauce or mac n cheese
Changed up every day of course, but 99/100 times if they pick what they want, they eat it all.
My grand parents would never ask "how are you?" And they'd always ask "have you eaten?"
My grandmother was not satisfied unless you accepted something to eat. “What’s wrong? Why aren’t you hungry?” And then she’d list a dozen things she could either serve or cook for me, until finally I’d agree to something
"Sec fan?" (Eat rice?)
@@TheWatchernator 不，肯定是英語. No, definitely English.
@@redwingsbaby 🤗
This is common in a lot of Eastern countries from what I know. In Thai it's กินข้าวยัง "have you eaten yet?
I’m a longtime fan of your channel from Azerbaijan, a former Soviet Union country. Frankly speaking, I am impressed by the level of research and insights you got on Stalin-era Soviet Union. Very well done!
So are farmers allowed private farm ownership in Azerbaijan?
Will say, I wish you'd mentioned the part where, while stealing from the Kulaks, Stalin was exporting their grain.
I'm a biologist, and this video was clearly precise and relevant. Thank You!
Я психолог, вы психически больной человек :)))
Many important details were omitted: 1) during Stalin even such scarce made wheat not even used for bread, it was exported worldwide to get foreign currency (wheat was oil before oil) for buying Ford factories tech which was a cornerstone of all USSR industry, Ford likes bloody money and adored Stalin with Hitler(Adolf publicly liked soviet agriculture model of forced labor and peasant strict community which planned for new german territories, ironically Israel adopted this model with kibbutz and now can't survive without cheap labor from Asia, it's really for robots not for people, way ahead of its time), all soviet industrial giants was made by american engineers (history repeating again with China today, where even firewall made by americans). 2) After Stalin during Khrushchev the USSR got in such agricultural problems that it's officially started importing foreign wheat and it was basically golden bread. New soviet leader with Kennedy and short friendship period very liked corn production in USA, that's why in Russia he called a "corn leader" and forcefully corn adapted in soviet agriculture everywhere. American farmers which invited in Soviet union to consult with corn adaption was shocked how soviet agriculture not using fertiliser at all (presumably to save on it in planning economics) and by that destroying fertile layers of soil.
Agriculture in USSR during all it's 70 years of existence was a mess, till USSR collapse it was forced to import foreign bread because of such mistakes during huge harvests which rotten in warehouses or lost in transit, at the same time subsidising Africa with aid by political reasons, which soviet people still can't regret (unity in hunger). It's really getting bankrupt as a project.
I never heard of this guy before, but I do remember my mother saying "Think of the starving kids in China". Never knew that there was such a horrible famine there. I grew up hearing of the communist purges, but not the famines. The only famine I ever heard spoken of was the Potato Famine in Ireland.
@thomascreeden9650 The famines in Asia were overwhelmingly the result of Western and of British policy. In India alone, Dr. Gideon Polya in Countercurrents estimates that from 1765 through 1938 the British killed 1.8 billion (with a "b") Indians while reducing India's share of global GDP from 25% to 4%.
If you're GenX or elder Millennial maybe your parents got the line from "A Christmas Story?"
@@johnstrawb3521 Weird that you're claiming billions of people died when the world population at the time was barely 3 billion. It didn't start ballooning until the discovery of penicillin and the invention of Vaccines. Not disputing that the British killed millions of people during colonialization.... just that you're hyper inflating the facts to make a what-aboutism.
To answer Thomas' question. You don't hear about it because the current Government in China intentionally downplays the communist famines as it hurts their feel goods to admit that Communism failed its own people that hard. They still celebrate Mao in China and any failings that man made are downplayed or censored outright. As China extended its influence overseas it actively sought to minimize these facts and histories from being recounted. As a result its not taught with any major depth or detail in a lot of places. Rather it gets glossed over if it's mentioned at all. In much the same way the US massacres in the Philippines, Koreas and even at home against black and Native Americans, tends to get lost in the education system. It's not that any of these events are denied. It's just not looked at or scrutinized strongly to protect those individuals and power structures that ultimately depend on people not looking too deeply at things.
@@johnstrawb3521the Chinese famine was entirely China's fault.
We're fixing to learn a lot about famine.
Love how your intro music is 4 times louder than your mic volume so it absolutely blows my eardrums out because I have my volume up trying to understand what you're saying
0:30 My answer to that was "ok, so how do I send this food to the starving children in China?"
If I said that I'd wake up in a daze later....
I’m from Brazil and my parents would say this about starving children in Africa. But what is more sad is that there were children in food insecurity back home. :(
Yes and there were and still are areas with food insecurity in the US. I will say I've had Brazilian food and I think it's delicious.
My sister sometimes poured milk down the sink, because in her 5 year old mind, the drains were going downward and china was on the other side of the earth, so she was sending milk to the starving children in china 😂 None of us knew this till a few years ago, btw. She was never caught in the act.
reminds of how I used to drop pieces of string cheese into my family's house's floor vents. i wanted to feed the mice because I was obsessed with mouse books at that age- the one with the motorcycle, the schoolhouse one, Redwall especially... probably doesn't help that my uncle was encouraging me, lol
@@mellow_mallowhaha, some uncles are just like that
My parents used Africa. I use Arkansas, because that's where I'm from. I actually feel guilty about the amount I'm eating. The dishes I make now would have been split 6 ways as a child, and now it's just the two of us eating the entire thing.
Here in South Africa my parents used "world hunger - there are hungry kids out there somewhere in the world" after a bunch of charities started popping up here asking for donation for the world's children, feeding them world over in the early 2000's.
His approach to science seems very like that of Ancel Keys. And yeah, growing up in England in the 60's, we had to eat everything on our plate because children were starving in Africa. I told my parents they could send what I didn't eat to Africa, but I got a smack on the head and got sent to bed for suggesting it. I suspect I only suggested it once.
Thanks for the Keys reference. Arguably, Keys' negative impact on nutrition persists to this day. 12 servings of grain a day = diabetes, obesity, mental illness, and cancer galore.
@@henrytang2203 Unfortunately, that appears to be the case.
Great video as always but as some of the others commented the music is a little bit too loud. There is a good technique called ducking in the audio engineering that remedies that thing. And again great video!
Ducking is done with a compressor. I think it's built into AE
This is why we need international research collaboration and peer review of research articles. Maybe it is time to make a video about the two weeks everyone thought the South Korean researchers had found a room temperature superconductor, which, after the experiments had been repeated by multiple international research groups, turned out to be a result of magnetism due to iron pollution in the sample.
Peer reviewed research-that’s how science works
Yes, and as your example makes clear, it’s just as needed in the so-called “hard” or “objective” fields of science. Errors, falsehoods, oversights, misinterpretations etc can always happen
Born in 2004, lived in Hawaii, my mom decided to tell me there were kids who didn’t have a single grain of rice so I should always finish my rice. Now I know it’s because she didn’t want me filling up on crazy expensive meat since living on a small island meant the groceries in the stores had to be shipped in.
That’s actually pretty smart
We see food deprivation here, but it doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Part of the reason some people are obese does not mean they are eating well. It’s because cheap, filling prepared foods are cheaper than fruits and vegetables in the US. In Europe, it’s exactly the opposite.
Great video as always. Not sure about the decision to add loud dramatic music though
After reading a bunch of the comments, and knowing WHEN the Chinese famine occurred, I would suggest that the reason more people in modern times say "in Africa" is simple - the famine in Ethiopia was very public and much more recent.
The scary thing is that Trofum could become popular with people in the west and other areas as well; simply because of the distrust in good science that is growing again.
Was going to say the same thing, yeah. Later generations after that it was always 'africa'
Yes, the famine in China was almost unknown in the West until 20 years or so later. I first heard of it on some TV show where one or two Americans were asking why so many truckloads of food were being sent to South China.
Lysenkoism is alive and well in the West but it no longer has a name and is not talked about. It's an assumption that's one of the bases of some political systems. Assumptions are never questioned or acknowledged in politics. It is no longer considered science - it's a tenet of faith.
Yes, I know I'm conflating science, religion, and politics. That's what it looks like to me: They're converging.
@@neilreynolds3858 Conflate away. To try and separate the three in the mind of the average individual is a fools errand.
Coincidentally, Ethiopia in the 80s was also an ally of the Soviet Union, as it was run by a communist military junta. One/The ONLY key difference between far-right policy and far-left policy is that the far-right mould their ideology around an idea(ie the Nazis moulded their beliefs around Eugenics and the idea of an intellectual elite ruling the land via direct rule, the politics of the land are only governed by the ideas of the elite and the traditionally-minded, so to speak), whereas the far-left mould an idea around their ideology(ie Lysenkoism and the Great Leap Forward, where communists and socialists would mould any idea around their ideology, under the mindset, approach and premise that EVERYTHING must be and to that end, IS politicised and political). Furthermore, the reason why people distrust Science is thanks to its corporatisation and hyper-industrialisation. This has led to the rise of the Sackler Family and the greater Opioid Epidemic that began in the 1990s, as well as the ironically government-managed botching of COVID-19 in 2020. The rise of Social Justice and greater Far-Left beliefs within younger people especially online has led to a lot of Lysenkoist-adjacent beliefs and applications. It's why you hear idiots say "but Science DOES care about your feelings" and "Body Language is not reliable" or "x is a Social Construct".
@@DR3ADER1 Your comment was almost insightful but didn't quite get there. The political distortions of science in the USSR pretty much began and ended with Stalinism. Once he was out of the picture science mostly got back to normal. So, your "theories" about ideologies and science are not based on good information. Almost like you're moulding your idea around your ideology.
Really interesting stuff. I had no idea about the Chinese famine.
The audio was borked on this one Joe, background music too loud and your voice really echoed (with respect and admiration).
Yeah Dude, pay a little more attention to your audio mix
Background music was very distracting and completely unnecessary
that graph is giving saddam hussein hiding spot 1:26
Starving children in
Still starving if I eat the food.
The unsaid part of the adage was, you should be grateful you have enough food to eat, because there are children starving elsewhere and you are not one of them.
Mom also whipped out the "starving kids in Africa" phrase and I honestly couldn't figure out why she wasn't giving my food to them instead of me.
Lysenko sounds like the kind of guy who would proudly proclaim to others "I am science!"
Pretty much. Fauci was also hilariously wrong about the origin of AIDS among other subjects - didn't stop him from gaining more and more powerful political positions, and being more and more blindly worshipped by people who claim to "follow science".
And then he scienced all over the place.
Yep.. parallels to Fauci for sure.
Fauci's predecessor. Remember, it was Fauci who bungled the AIDS crisis in the 80s.
Trust the science!
Early on understood our parents and grand parents knew how scarce food had been because of the depression and also how they learned a child would in thirty minutes be complaining how they were hungry because the parent didn't encourage them to eat what was in front of them.
Very interesting video. A follow up on epigenetics would be amazing ! As a quick little CC, the background music was quite distracting, came in a bit abruptly and covered your voice quite a bit. I think 3/4 db less would be good and also, doing an EQ on the track to create a dip of frequence where your voice sits would help spread out and get more clarity. The track was nice otherwise but being so present made it harder to hear you clearly and a little too dramatic. I tried listening both on my macbook pro M1 (decent speakers for videos), and Bose headset. Same issue. Hope that can be useful. Cheers and thx for the video !
Agreed on all points
Also agree. Especially the too loud background sound
I agree. The bgm was distracting.
Agreed on the unnecessary music.
Specially on YT audio is hit and miss, having said that my aural experience of this video was quite good as I run an EQ and I am constantly adjusting for different videos. This one of Joe's as per normal was good as I didn't have to touch my EQ and remained on a preset. I don't have flash sound just an old laptop and a 2000s Sony wiz bang stereo via a headphone amp for a bit of gain. My speakers are bass heavy so anything under 60hz is cut by my EQ.
During my young childhood, my Mother frequently employed the name of the currently starving nation of Biafra. "Eat your dinner. Children are starving in Biafra." One night, my 8-year-old mind and mouth responded to that by saying, "Then send this to them." I was sent to my room. Just as well. 😂
My brother-in-law packed up his green beans in a box addressed to starving children, China.
I think his mom gave up then.
With my parents (I'm 67 now) it was "Eat it. Or don't. You get nothing else until breakfast."
That tended to be pretty effective most nights. It didn't help that after one or two coaxings my dad, who worked all day to support the family, would take the plate of the child who didn't want to eat, and gobble it down himself. He wasn't trying to prove a point, though -- he was just REALLY hungry and didn't care a whiff if one of us willingly starved. Ahhh.... precious childhood memories.
My mother grew up during post-WW2 UK, where things like meat became a luxury. So not eating our food wasn't an option in my house.
Your parents actually seem pretty reasonable...
I think your dad was awesome. He obviously needed more food but he made sure his children got enough. If you weren’t hungry enough to appreciate the food then it went to the one that needed it more.
Thank you for mentioning Nikolai Vavilov. A great example.
Superb explanation of Lamarckism. I remember learning about this in JHS. Supposedly the story goes, he was getting his horse reshoed when he noticed the 4-5 year old son of the blacksmith was very muscular. Rather than realising that this was the result of the boy working the forge with his father, Lamarck came up with his "theory".
There are lots of stories bumping around about Lamarck and his theories, but it doesn't actually seem like Lamarckism was actually HIS theory. As in, he's not the one who came up with it. It now looks like that the basic premise was developed by someone else, whose name is now lost to history. Lamarck heard about it, liked it, and added it to a book he was writing, and maybe included a few additional speculations of his own to flesh out the idea. That book, which was targeted at lay audiences, became something of a fad at the time, almost like Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" which resulted in the theory getting popularized, and Lamarck's name getting attached to it.
The thing is, Lamarck isn't totally wrong. We know about eqigenetics now. We also know individual specimen actually do adapt in certain ways to external stimuli, like food supply. But going from there to assumig how you can force those changes onto plants without going through the research of finding out if and how they will react to the specific stimuli you want to expose them to? Not to speak of the narrow-mindedness with which Lysenko assumed it could be only the one or the other. Two things can be true at the same time. And then you'd have an even harder job figuring out which effect, if any, is the dominant one.
@@Volkbrecht That would be ePigenetics...
He seems like a hero figure to the uneducated promoting non-education right here in the States. Idiocracy is growing extremely close. ☮
We are post Idiocracy.
@@JoshuaTootellMillions of republicans are planning to vote for trump in the primaries. I think we’re still in peak idiocracy.
So true!!
I think you've got this backwards. It's the Left that promote the policies of Central Planning that cause these massive ways of starvation in Socialist Countries. This is one of the main points of this video. Every time Socialism has been tried, it has resulted in many forms of disaster. Starvation, police states, loss of freedom, reeducation camps, or all of the above.The USSR, Cuba, North Korea, China, Nicaragua, etc. Capitalism, despite its unequal sharing of blessings, has raised more people out of poverty than any form of political order ever tried throughout history. The Left doesn't promote education, it promotes indoctrination, and low or no standards of accomplishment at all education levels.
@@hazyhalfmoon Thank god for that. Trump would have completely destroyed the country by now had he managed to win in 2020.
My parents got married as soon as my father got home to the UK from WW2. Rationing was stric, and getting worse, as my two older sibling were born. Although rationing was just coming to an end by the time I was born I well remember my mother sometime becoming almost hysterical if we did not eat every last bit of food that was put before us.
Did they have anyway to keep it if you didn't eat it? A refrigerator? My mother grew up in a city. My father in the rural Southern US. I'm not sure my Dad had a refrigerator all the time as a kid. They did live in a small town, so I think they may have had an ice box rather than a propane refrigerator. Because he didn't have electricity until the Rural Electrification Act, 1936. When he was a teenager.
@@kitefan1 I think it has more to do with rationing being a "use it or loose it" system. if you didn't consume what was allocated to you then your allotment was decreased next time.
@@ckl9390 Makes sense, thanks.
My grandma told me the story about Chinese people killing all the sparrows to stop sparrows eating the crops. That was the year 1977, and it was in Siberia when I have heard that story. A few years later I had first-hand experience participating in ongoing process of "Яровизация" ("vernalization") of potatoes. That was near the town Kolpashevo at the north of the Tomsk region, not far from Narim where Joseph Zhugashvili was once a prisoner before he became "stalin". Then we had a collapse of the state...
My understanding is, there are hardly any people left in the area of Narim Government Selection Station ("НГСС") where the work on vernalization of potatoes used to be conducted. Many left, many died. Very sad picture indeed.
As a decendant of one of those 'kulaks', I still remember my grandfather tell the story of how he and his siblings ate grass and stole eggs to survive after their farm was taken away and they became homeless. Since we're of german decent, we were then declared 'enemy of the state' and banned to gulags in central asia.
His rehabilitation is just another sign that the world is regressing when it comes to the general populations understanding and acceptance of science.
There's also the part about "science" becoming so politicized that nobody believes anything that a scientist says just like we can't believe anything a politician says. Since so much of "science" is funded by the state, it has become an arm of political parties. The only way to regain trust is to stop taking money from the sciencist-politicians who control the funding. We know that's not going to happen so "science" will not be trusted.
Political regression as well. Takes a horrendous worldview to glorify Lysenko as a defier of “Western” science rather than who he really was: a killer of colleagues and fellow countrymen.
It's not just the sciences where the world is regressing.
It's because people like comforting lies more than they like harsh truths.
The earth is in desperate need of some tough love.
@@_nebulousthoughts The ironic fact about that is that the only reason why we know this point about people choosing comfort over truth is thanks to Science and the findings produced by various psychological studies.
I am from India and fortunately me and my generation living in the 2nd tier cities never faced acute food crisis but my parents’ generation has literally seen people ending up dead as well as riots being instigated because of acute food shortage.
So growing up, my generation, who were born in the ‘90s have always been warned of the “Karma” that follows, if we waste food by their parents.
It’s still a misery to see even on the 76th Independence day of my country, so many people getting preventable diseases like Tuberculosis and Rickettsia because of poor nutrition.
As a kid in the late 60s and all through the 70s USSR, my mom never said anything about kids starving anywhere, it was either "Do you know how long I/your sister/your brothers had to stand on a queue to buy that?" - OR "Do you remember how YOU had to stand on a queue for 6 hours to buy this?" The only thing we were allowed to gripe about was tinned seaweed salad - in our city the shops were overflowing with it, so the shop managers demanded you buy 2 or 3 tins of the vile stuff in order to buy something GOOD (for every tin of beef - when it was available - you had to also buy 3 tins of seaweed salad). We all hated it, and YES, it WAS just a few Kopeks a tin, but mum only forced us to eat it during winter when fresh veg was hard to obtain.
I also used to get the “kids in china would love that food” lecture when I was little. But the thing is, my undiagnosed autistic 5yr old self didn’t get it and would always respond with “Then why don’t you sent the food to china since I don’t want it?” lmao.
What is it with UA-camrs who set their voice levels to 1 and their intro music to 11?
Seems to happen everywhere.
FFS equalise your sound levels.
Yeah, I found that really jarring, too.
Lol, yeah, intro music was really loud compared to his talking on this one
Relax, I have been watching this channel for years and this is the first time I noticed this. Must be a simple editing mistake, it happens.
Love your content, and I like all the changes you've been making, but I wanted to chime in and say that the music is way overpowering starting in the Great Purge section. I don't separate audio channels very well, and it was very hard for me to hear what you were saying.
100% hope Joe sees this. The music was ABSOLUTELY overpowering at times.
And frankly... that's not something that should be able to happen with a team as professional as what Joe presumably has.
As a recreational editor... syncing audio is one of the last things I do in all of my work... and it's something that I *never* skip.
I'm not a big fan of the changes that took place a few months ago (I DESPISE unmotivated zooms... with a passion... but I understand why he made those changes. Honestly, I'd love if there was a "here's the same video with absolutely no zooms" option, but I'm realistic about that not being an option. People like the unmotivated zooms for... WHATEVER reason... so be it.
But the audio? That's inexcusable. *IF* this was intentional... I may have to go elsewhere. And that will make me friggin sad.
i now tell my kids there are starving kids right outside the door. hits home a little more than china
... Have you tried feeding some of them?
The generational trauma of food scarcity is a massive factor in the obesity epidemic that I really don't think gets enough attention. Being raised to think that you're doing something wrong if you don't finish everything on your plate is bad for everyone.
That coinciding with pushing the ass backwards food pyramid in the 80s. Also it's easier for corporations to mass produce the foods that cause obesity.
You should, generally, finish everything on your plate. The problem is in ordering or cooking more than is good for you in the first place. And also the establishments that encourage that behavior.
I get what you're saying, but corporate corruption around the world is more to blame...and our primal nature. The US is obviously the worst case scenario where political bribery is legal. Have a hard look at Monsanto and their history of influencing the food pyramid and the FDA. Pure evil. There's a reason they get sued continually and always lose. So much land wasted on corn, soy, and canola...all useless, empty calories.
That's makes no sense from a US perspective, which is where the obesity crisis is centered. The last Americans to suffer food scarcity grew up in the 30's, and are dead or extremely old. Their children are the baby boomers, who are all getting older. Boomers endured little to no such food scarcities, and they raised the millennials in an environment of indulgence. Obesity amongst the youngest generations of Americans is truly at an epidemic level, and they were raised by millennials and gen Zers, who've only experienced an abundance of food.
I kinda agree actually. But once you're an adult you know whats good for you and not good for you.
A few years back I read a book called The Lysenko Affair by David Joravsky. It went into some more detail of Lysenko and his ideas. I'd def give it a read if you're intrigued by this chapter of history. :D
See also Chapter 13 of 'Nine Lives - the Autobiography of a Yorkshire Scientist' by Sydney Harland ed by his Californian nephew Max Millard - published only online - google it and download for free. Harland, a REAL scientist and world expert in plant genetics, visited Vavilov in the USSR in 1933-4 and while there was introduced to Lysenko - and saw right through the wretch. Harland also however witnessed the effects of the widespread famine which was already raging, well before Lysenko got into a position of real power and influence.
Thomas Midgely has to be up there in terms of scientists whos discoveries caused a lot of harm (tetraethyl lead, CFCs).
Him and half the researchers at Dow Chemical for having invented PFAS and fucked up practically all water everywhere. Across the whole of the United States, rainwater is considered unsafe to drink due to PFAS contamination. All so eggs won't stick to a frying pan. The people behind PFAS ought to go to prison for a very long time if you ask me.
I was thinking the same, strong competition.
First one that jumped to mind. Hasn't Joe already done a vid on him?
We have a whole new class of fluorocarbons now PFAS that are potent endocrine disruptors and carcinogens and everywhere.
A good video thanks. You mentioned there were other factors contributing to the famines in the Soviet Union and China. Certainly under Mao, he used food and industrial products as currency to pay for imports from outside China. Consequently food was seized to the level where local producers, who in the past would have kept some aside for local and home use, had everything taken under pain of death in his desperate need to boost imports and I believe this was a major cause for them to resort to their below subsistence diets and death to eat anything at hand. I am also sure the Soviets acted in a similar way.
How many times have I read about modern famines that weren't caused by stupidity and hubris and the squandering and denial of resources? The last 5 minutes really reminded me of how the further distance society gets away from a horrible tragedy, or person, the more you see weird fringe people start to make statements about how "it actually wasn't as bad as they want you to think" or "there were some good parts". NO! There are no good parts! Shout that down every time.
Starvation is good for the planet! Real communism hasn't been tried! Lol
Hi Joe!
I got that same admonishment from my parents, and one day I replied: "Why do you just ship it to them?"
I got my ass beat and sent to my room for sassing.
Now I always finish what I am served whether I am still hungry or not.
All hail Zoe!
And while that attitude is understandable, it also contributes to the obesity epidemic. When food is scarce, it makes sense to eat as much as you can, but with abundant food that's extremely unhealthy.
Clean your plate culture directly fuels our obesity epidemic
Haha I was about 10 years old when my mom said "There are starving kids in Africa" and my response was "Yeah? Well why don't you ship this meal to them". She laughed and never used that guilt trip again.
i used to force myself to eat everything whenever i went out to eat because i overpaid for it directly. then i started realizing that it's not benefiting me at all and just making me miserable over something i should be enjoying. whether i throw it away or force myself to eat it and it turns to poop later, it doesn't affect ANYBODY but me
they actually got violent at your suggestion to help them.. because they arent europeans and we only help europeans....
As a sort of sarcastic riff on that phrase my brother and I used to just say, "You better eat that. There's kids in China!" Leaving out whether they are or are not starving.
The Schrödinger's Chinese kids, who are in a superposition of starving and not starving
@@smoguli you'll never know unless you check. let's install surveillance cameras everywhere to make sure
Every time I see a friend waste food I tell them "kids in Africa could've eaten that plate"
There are still starving kids in China.
The government doesn't really look after people not in the cities.
Gullible kids? When my gen was told there were starving children in Ethiopia they brought the receipts; They had pictures, news stories and video of the famine. Nowadays they would not be lying if they said there were starving children in XX city or state.