If you are stationed up here in Alaska you will learn what each layer is used for. Silks are your lvl 1s and meant for movement. Waffles are lvl 2s and can be meant for movement but will heat up more, also absorbs the sweat from lvl 1s. The Fleece jacket is your lvl 3s and is meant for insulation only, NOT AN OUTDOOR JACKET (leg units.) The Windbreaker is the lvl 4sand is meant for movements but never recommended for some reason. Soft Shell Jacket are your lvl 5s and will be your normal uniform up here, will wear with silks and waffles (meant for places with snow, highly water resistant. ) The Wet Weather System are your lvl 6s and as said in the name, you don't get wet. Your Parka System are your lvl 7s and is meant to keep you warm and heat up your inner layers to get dry. If any more questions, just ask anyone in Alaska and/or with an Arctic tab.
The only thing we where allowed once was the pile cap and the parka. Never wore the trigger mittens or liners. Wet weather pants never came out of the plastic bag. Yeah almost half the stuff we where issued we never used.
Brit here, 2003 Iraq, took a Buffalo shirt, ( non issue at the time self purchase )a made in Sheffield UK very useful cold weather item, worn under waterproof or jacket , wicks sweat away so you dont chill when you stop any thing physical, I brought mine after noticing SNCO"s all had them, in fact wore it on its own walking around the base of the Eiger early spring/late winter, did not need anything else on top of it,
Love how many levels can be omitted and or substituted, this is adaptable for temperature ranges, activity level and humidity( rain, snow, wind). Worked outside 30 years, loose fitting moisture wicking shirt and sock liners keep dampness at bay. 6am - 3:30pm the weather can change 20 degrees and wind, snow turns into rain! Goretex outerwear to stay dry or unzip to vent. Less is always more, unless you are sitting down fishing or hunting. Always have an EXTRA snack in your pocket. That is to share with the lads. Amazing gear.
This is great. In the winter of 1944 my best friend Charlie was with company L of the 318 reg. 80th 318 reg. div. engaged with the German army west of Metz. The were pulled out of the fight in the morning, loaded on trucks and hauled north. Early the next morning, the gathered together in snow with no winter gear to be told the along with elements of an armored div. we’re goin to attack the left flank of the German breach into the Arredens. They had only the gear they were carrying, with no chow or cold weather cover. The ate only what the could scrounge for 4 days. At one point Charlie said, the chewed pine needles to have some “taste” in their mouth. Eventually they reached their objective, on the outskirts of the town called Bastogne. Charlie said it was one hell of a Christmas!
The key to using this gear: start “comfortably cool”, aka cold, before movement, AND more importantly, the 5 Ps!! The puffy suit is strictly for static positions and overland movements, like a snowmobile
Great video Trooper. I will tell you this, you have no idea how good ya'll have it these days! I spent time at FT Carson and Korea back when the M65 Field jacket and liner were the mainstay, never issued any thermal or Goretex, shitty black leather gloves and wool liners. I am glad to see things getting better for our fighting men!
As far as the Poncho, we had a Liner to go with the Poncho bout no one used it. During wet weather, we used the Rain Jacket and Pants. No one really used the Sleeping bag, shelter half and pegs because I was in Armored Calvary so we were always on the move. When we slept it was inside our tracks with the heater on because it was freezing cold outside. No one bothered to bring the bulky sleeping bag except when in Germany at Graf. At Graf the sleeping bag was on top of our cots . 90% of the time we were on the ranges waiting to shoot so we slept on our tracks. When we did return to the barracks at Graf, we slept on our cots. The only time I ever used the Army Mess Kit was in Basic and AIT. No one ever used it at my Duty Stations because in the Field it was C-Rats and once in awhile a hot meal. We used the Canteen Cup to make Hot Chocolate or Coffee. The Vast Majority of TA-50 Gear was never used. Being on Tracks, I wore a CVC Helmet and never used the Steel Pot except on a very, I mean very few occasions. My Steel Pot sat inside my TA-50 Duffle Bag on top of my Wall Locker. The Flack Jacket they issued sat inside my Wall Locker never used
I'm still looking for a set of wet-weather gear in GOOD shape for a reasonable price =/ Shoulda kept mine when I got out, but I didn't have a bike then soooo
I still have my Poly Pro's and Matterhorns issued to me back in 89 and 90 in the 10th mountain Division, we tested the original ECWS gear and also were issued the old M57 equipment including the Mickey mouse boots.
So much has changed from when I was in back in the Seventies. We were issued white t-shirt and either boxer or brief undies, wool long johns that itched like no tomorrow, od green socks, black cruit boots, starch fatigues a baseball cap and a field jacket. Also the green glove liners and black gloves which did not do squat in cold weather. We were issued our TA-50 which included a field jacket liner, pile cap, parker, and liner, og shirt, mittens, field pants and liner, wool scarf. In Alaska we got issued our Artic TA-50 which had the Mickey Mouse Boots. Wearing the Army Cold Weather Gear, you were FREEZING. The Mickey Mouse Boots kept your feet warm but you had to change socks because your feet would sweat and get super cold. In Alasks, We had our sleeping bag and over it was the Artic Bag. We wore the Clothing in layers and it was still COLD and COLD especially wearing the Old Steel Pot Helmet with Pile Cap wrapped around it. The Pile Cap made your Head Itch and Sweat, then turn cold. The Wool Long Johns were a JOKE and did not keep you warm at all. The Army dumped that gear which was from WWII. It was all useless especially the gloves. I bought Black Ski Gloves which kept my hands warm. In Germany most of the Soldiers bought the German Military boots which were insulated. The Army issued Black Cruit Boots were useless.
Depending on your foot size, Coleman's Surplus has Swiss Military Boots (Full Leather/black, A1 Quality/Cold weather). Size 11's normally come brand new. Some will have 1-2 upper loops missing. Loops are available from Weaver Leather, very cheap. Loops come with rivet to fasten into open hole. Boots $65 price tag! Best fitting boot I've ever seen.
I spent 18 months at fort Richardson Alaska in 1972-73 the gear we had was a layer system, the wool blend long johns , wool shirt and pants, poplin field pants with liner and parka and liner , fur trimmed hood (wolf or coyote ) Balaclava with sheet of plastic in between the layers on the face to keep your face from freezing when it’s -45 and your getting off or on a Huey, C 130 , or an occasional chinook , that hood would be snorkeled pretty tight too , Arctic mittens you’d have trigger finger mittens, with wool liners , White VB boots , Norwegian rag wool socks ,web gear ,a ruck , a mountain and an arctic down bag , poplin cover, the mountain went inside the arctic bag and you laced the zippers together with parachute cord waterproof bag ,we’d roll the sleeping bag tight then take some para cord make a slip knot and wind the cord tight, you could get it compressed pretty small , air mattress , poncho,arctic canteen , one extra set of long johns , 3 pairs of socks, 12 foot piece of climbing rope and a carabiner, ,ski’s and poles ,snowshoes a knife ,a fire starting kit , I carried ammo when we went to the field, don’t tell anybody ,the have bears where we went black , brown and white ones, squad leaders carried 12 gauge pumps with slugs and buck shot or a rifle bigger than an 3006, each squad had ahkio toboggan , it had a shovel and an ax and a bow saw, an arctic squad tent , a Yukon multi fuel stove , lantern, 2 Jerry cans of mogas , 1 Jerry can of water, 2 cases of c rations . That was a long time ago, E co 4/23 inf 172nd light arctic infantry BDE airmobile , you have some nice stuff but in Alaska it would be spring and early fall gear , I did have a down vest with hand warmer pockets over my kidneys and I carried solid stick hand warmers ,I’d throw 2 in my sleeping bag at night , 50 below I’d sleep in my boxers and we turned the stove off at night and I never slept cold ,that old gear worked I don’t remember being cold I didn’t think much of VB boots thanks for the video , stay safe
Good video if I might add; The soft shell is to replace the issued uniform during cold weather. The level 5 soft shell has built in ventilation zippers in the chest, arm pits, hips of pants to prevent over heating during increased activity, patrolling etc. It also allows you to quickly adjust the under layers with the high zip legs to take them off quickly with boots still on. Wheras the standard issue uniform does not allow for that. It also doesn't project sound like the goretex will. If wet weather is expected, the goretex is worn over it at which point the sound of the fabric wouldn't be an issue. The boot liner is "supposed" to be swapped out if the boot becomes wet. But yeah, usually the boot is warm enough without them. Agreed wind breaker and fleece are hot garbage. The ECWCS is designed for multi day missions in mind where adjusting layers often may happen. We've just been accustomed to having our FOBs and COPs to go back to instead of old school patrol bases with artic tents far away from the mother unit where we'd be more dependent on the ECWCS. Now also, good luck getting your leadership to agree to some of the techniques I mention.
@@GruntProof I know you don't have to care much about the vanity of camo pattern still getting issued OCP but I've been dying UCP Level 5 and 6 brown/ tan to demonstrate an affordable alternative out there. I even turned the level 7 a nice brown using RIT Tan. Look forward to watching more.
This is a very helping comment, before this I thought the soft shell equipment and fleece and winter boots and booties were useless. I would line my boots with ziplocks that I use for cloathing while in very wet areas
@@zachredline Very cool! So much good equipment gets issued and just tossed aside because no one understood how and when it should be used. Thanks for the feedback!
I'm an Army vet - I got out in 2000 - thank you for telling us what items they replaced - I remember the old goretex was cozy as hell - I was in Alaska with it
Retired from the Army in 94, went in in 72, what a wonderful advancement in cold weather gear since I retired, My first 4 years of service i spent in the field in Germany, simply froze my butt off, it got better, and i got smarter. This was very enjoyable. Thank you and Happy New Year. Thank you for your service
@@GruntProof First of all, Happy New year. I was in Darmstadt from 72-76, but we spent most of our time in the Fulda Gap on the border. Second tour was Heidelberg 80-84, then Tagu, Korea, the back to the Netherlands, 87-92, On to Ft Hauchuca for retirement in 94. A few quick deployments in between. I have been retired 26 years now and miss it every day. I just got off the phone with a guy I was stationed with in the 70,s. I miss it every day, except maybe PT. Just looking at the new PT test, I dont think I could do any of it, let alone pass. Thank you for your service. Enjoy it all while you can, I never got rich, but my experience in the Army made up for that a hundredfold. Take care of yourself.
Good stuff, thanks. I was a Marine grunt 81-85 still wearing WWII issue gear and ALICE packs. I got to like the field jacket with liner for cold, but freezing in Korea just south of the DMZ near rice paddies in winter and in a canyon where wind never stopped, I wish I had that favorite jacket of yours. We were supposed to be issued parkas on ship before the beach landing but something went wrong. A couple of jarheads in our company got frostbite that first night after we did a 25 mile hump, got there just at sunset and our sweat turned to ice almost instantly. Anyway, it's good things were upgraded as the old stuff didn't cut it to well. I volunteered for every night patrol there was just to stay warm moving all the time. I don't regret any of it, though I might have been bitchin under my breath. Training with ROK Marines in mountain warfare training was a great experience. For those of you who have seen combat, thanks for your service. I got lucky, never had to go anywhere as nothing happened while was in, though I really thought we would go to war with the USSR being the height of the cold war.
I’ve actually slept in my car in -42°F here in Wyoming at a truck stop with a wool blanket. I did fine though the night in mid weight clothing. I got off work around midnight and had to be at the recruiting station at 7am. It’s not all that bad as long as you’re out of the wind and no my heater did not work at the time.
a good buddy of mine served as a German Paratrooper, back in the day ... while doing Nato exercise in Norway, (in winter time), he told me they used to bivouac like the Norwegian guys, they dig a fox hole in the snow, and slept on bearskin ... he told me it does the job pretty decently ... I've personally never tried
Best ECWCS video out there! I have watched more than once and you have helped me stay warm and dry with some of this bulletproof gear. Nothing makes going outdoors more enjoyable than having the right clothing that makes it comfortable and this system does that at so many levels. Thank you for the brutally honest review, I am sure many of us have been better than "just surviving" thanks to this review, I know this helped me up my game.
Coastie here (from Michigan LOL). That "patrol" bag works just fine in the upper 20's//low 30's. Took two boys through scouts and got both a MSS setup. Best 4 season bags on the shelf. For me, back in the 80's, our Arctic gear consisted of the bunny boots, N-3B parka, or the Navy Deck Jacket for extreme cold weather (which included a snap in covered foam liner/insert that would float your cold lifeless body from the tropical waters of the Arctic if you fell overboard. This was before GORTEX was a thing so the backside of the pants and coat was coated in rubber. So it did not breath. Oh, and I wish they had the Level 7 suit back in my camping days. I would have never taken a MSS, I'd just sleep in the suit, and I'd have to get the booties from the marines. As far as the BLACK fleece (what replaced the BEAR suit jacket), I've had one for 20 years. Best damn all around jacket for outdoors I've owned. I found if you put a pull over under your fleece jacket, that worked great.
This was really interesting as a non military outdoors enthusiast. In the climbing world, we've kind of come to the same conclusion about the fleece. Puffy mid layers are now way preferred. They're warmer, lighter, and pack down smaller. Fleece is really comfortable for just like kicking around in, but not entirely practical for being in the backcountry. Something you guys might consider... Put a lighter more form fitting mid layer under the marshmallow top, and size your marshmallow top large enough to go over your body armor. In the climbing world, this is known as a belay jacket, and that marshmallow top you have looks to be about the weight and cut of a typical belay jacket. So that way when you start out you can have that on, and be able to quickly take it off when you start to warm up. And then depending on how cold it is, you would have your waffle top and potentially a lighter puffy mid layer under your armor. Then if you stop and get cold again, just throw on the marshmallow top. And of course you can sleep in it, too. BTW, the waffle top is sold on the civilian market as the Patagonia R1, which is like the single most beloved piece of gear for backcountry stuff. Looks like the exact same material. A wool baselayer with that and a shell will keep you crazy warm. Would suggest ditching the ninja suit in favor of wool, though. Kinda pricy, but if you're out in the field a lot then it's probably worth it. Same weight, way better insulation, and it doesn't stink like the synthetic stuff does. P.S. And no, that bag I can guarantee you will not be good down to -50 degrees. Looks like equivalent to about a 20 degree commercial bag, which is about the biggest synthetic bag that's practical to carry. Even at that, they'll pretty much take up your entire pack. A real -50 degree bag is always super high fill down, and is still quite large. And that's saying something because down compresses to a tiny fraction of it's uncompressed size, vs. synthetic that doesn't really compress at all. It's totally a cost thing. A real -50 degree bag could cost around 1k dollars. So obviously they can't afford to issue that to everyone, considering there are only a few places in the habited world that even come close to getting that cold.
Thanks! That's interesting, I didn't know they made wool base layers....I could never stand the feel of wool on my skin. I did a below freezing camp with the ninja top and the old Army wool sweater over that, and that was pretty damn warm.
@@GruntProof Yea old school wool is the way to go. The baselayers are either made from merino or cashmere, so they're not itchy. They move moisture extremely well. Main thing though they don't stink like the synthetic baselayers do. But yea, wool is definitely better than any man made material. Especially for socks. You can kind of get by with synthetic socks, I mean they're obviously a thousand times better than cotton, but wool is the only way to go really. Basically anything that touches your skin should be wool or a wool blend. Oh and sleeping bag liners! You guys need sleeping bag liners for those jungle bags. It will improve the bag by about 10 degrees, and it will prevent dirt and oil from getting into the synthetic fibers, which will keep the bag performing better for longer.
Yeah...I have never seen any of that stuff and I feel the late 90's weren't that long ago. But alas, that was the old BDU system with the good Gortex jackets and bottoms you mentioned. Up at Ft. Drum, we would only use those, the BDU top/bottoms and the Polypropylene tops/bottoms if needed. We had the leather gloves with inserts you mentioned, Trigger-finger gloves and Arctic Bear gloves. Our boots would range from normal leather boots (GI Style Speedlace Combat Boots...from internet searching), a type of black leather Corcoran winter boots and then we all had white Mickey Mouse boots which I never used. We had a brown neck gaitors and the extremely thick green Balaclava. The sleeping bag system seemed thicker than yours but also had a 3-tiered system. Summer, mid-layer and extreme cold. Oh...and I almost forgot, BDU winter caps could fold down to cover your ears/back of head. Then we also had the hat that could come down and cover the whole neck with velcro stays. I had the one on the right. image.cloudcommercepro.com/40591069.png
I’m from tropical country and it’s so boring, nothing but sun and rain. It’s hot all year here, hot enough to get heatstroke everyday even indoor without AC on but in rainy season, it’s rain non stop for days literally. That fleece that you don’t, i see it in surplus stores all the time here, maybe it is true that many people don’t like it😂 i’m here cause i see a lot of different kind of cold weather gears from US army and they look interesting. Very good video sir, thank you
This is very cool to see. I chanced on a military issue ninja top and waffle top at the thrift store and wanted to know how it was used. I didn’t expect to come across such a detail rich video with the whole ECWS system laid out with real life practical uses in the field. Neat!
I'm a medium sized human who buys surplus when possible. I picked up the ECWCS level 7 top and bottom (top in medium long, bottom in medium regular), and the airforce version of the ECWCS level 6 goretex rain gear (top in large regular, bottom in medium long). The Level 7 is actually able to fit under the level 6 well enough cuz the goretex jacket is a size up. I'm gonna have to try out just sleeping in the level 6 and 7 while it's raining, cuz it seems like it should just be a wearable bivy and sleeping bag now. The one downside is it makes you a fricking gigantic cumbersome beast, but it doesn't feel like it pressures you in or weighs to much, just that it feels awkward to move.
Still wear my 'Ninjas' & Waffles in Michigan. Layer other clothing since I keep my home at 50*. This review was good to see again since being out 4 years now. You touch on some key points of Military training that I had forgotten.
I’ve been in extended temps that cold. WOOL! Wool is a godsend! -20 to -40 Fahrenheit you’ll be ok in proper wool. Minus’s 33 base layer, darn tough expedition socks, WeatherWool outer garment and neck gaiter, Canada goose arctic hat, Dachstein extreme warm gloves or mitts with the military ecwcs flyers mitts and I’m good for a long time. Mid layer and pants vary depending on where I am or going. Footwear varies as well, but Steeger Camuks for long treks are a beautiful thing. Finally got an xl mss in updated bags and the woodland bivy, but too warm now to take it outdoors and put it through the ringers. Can’t say enough good things about Kifaru slickbags though.
Nothing beats a 5 button Sweater, you oldtimers like me know it. Old school layering on the coldest days on Ft. Bragg; long underwear, 5 button sweater, BDUs, thick socks and those old issue combat boots you only wore in the field! oh and the OD wool scarf.
I don’t know if ours are different but the “soft shell” my unit was issued that replaced the gortex was completely water proof. I hate using the fleeces too by themselves so I got a smaller size and I just learned to layer it under the soft shell parka and it worked great
The absolute best cold weather system was the one we made back in the 1980’s. We took our Poncho Liner and our Wet Weather Top to the local seamstress and has her sew the liner into the rain top. I wore that for 3 years up in Wildflecken Germany in temperatures as low as -50 degrees and I never got cold. I was a Cavalry Scout.
When the hell is -50 (in this case F/C doesn't really matter) in basically the center of Germany? I live in a neighboring country at pretty much the same latitude and the lowest I've experienced was perhaps -20C. OK, I just checked wiki. In my country, the lowest was -42C in 1929. Germany has the lowest of -46C in 2001 but that was near the mountainous border with Austria. Now, I'm not saying it wasn't close to that temperature, but I'm having hard time believing it.
Germany Aug 2000- March 2004. Had Gore Tex, Poly Pros, Old School Woodland Camo Wet Weather Gear, Matterhorn Cold Weather Boots, Insulated Leather Gloves, Regular weight and Poly Pro neck Gaiters, Wool Balaclavas, Wool Sweaters, Wool Scarves, and White Thermal Underwear. Would wear the long John Bottoms, under the Light Weight BDU (unless it was freezing ass cold then I'd wear the thicker Winter weight BDU) with the Wool Sweater, and the Regular (thinner) neck gaiter. We rarely wore the Gore Tex Pants, just the Jacket. We also had the first generation Flight Gloves, but the only ones allowed to wear them were Armored Security Vehicle crews (I was a POG, a Mike Papa). But people supplemented with their own stuff like Mechanix Gloves and driving gloves...whatever they could find at the PX or locally. We also had a black watch cap but it was itchy af. We would wear Poly Pro when it got really freaking cold, but they made you sweat like crazy. The only time I wore all the layers it was Single digits in Baumholder and we were training up to deploy to Kuwait (Pre-Invasion). We spent 24 hours in JLIS which was nice considering it was colder than a Well Digger's Ass! Ironic isn't it? Training for Hot weather during the coldest week in 2002. I rarely ever used both sleeping bags of ECWS because we were also issued a down sleeping bag. We were also issued a Shelter half and poles. Which didn't make sense because we had the 3 man pop-up tents. I would bring the heavier bag when it was cold, the bivy and my Woobie, and I was set.
Thank you for the system explanation. Nice to see that our services have some nicer options than the historic US warriors had ( a wool shirt to wear under a utility shirt) and the old mummy bags. Thank you also for being at the tip of the spear. Semper fi.
A good mid-layer alternative to the fleece jacket is the liner from the Bundeswehr flecktarn parka. Not applicable for military personnel but for civvies or back home that thing is a jacket in its own right. I love mine. I looked really nutty wearing it through the night I got stuck in Atlanta airport but I wasn't cold. When they shut down the airport at night shit gets cold even in Georgia.
Minnesotan here, I was in the CAV for 5 years before getting picked up. I haven't had to sleep on the ground in -40 F, but I have had to sleep in tin huts in -36 F with no heat or insulation. My advice is sleep in ninjas in the winter bag and throw your clothes and boots for the next day in the bottom of your bag with you. Starting the day out with warm clothing and boots can set you up for success. Putting on -36 boots in the morning sucks.
I live in Northern Minnesota and it gets damn cold. I have to admit though I’ve not been in the military, I love the cold weather items. I actually use my green polar fleece jacket in the winter quite a bit. (with a sleeveless winter vest under it.) it is quite warm, though it isn’t good at keeping the wind out- hence the vest. I love the boots for deer hunting, when it’s still early in the winter. When I winter camp I use the camo bivy along with the old, huge and heavy green ecw down sleeping bag. It’s not ideal to carry but it’s great for stationary camping & warm enough for the negative -24°F or colder, weather we have. I have the marshmallow suit but haven’t had a chance or need to use it yet. I plan on using it to go ice fishing. I also often use the old army green mukluks (I think they are out of circulation now) they are awesome. I have the Mickey/bunny boots too but I only use them for ice fishing because they are so heavy. But warm!!! If I want to be warm- I have to use military surplus- it’s the best and all I can afford! Lol!
I was always grateful that I was in a hotter part of Afghanistan. Even in the winter, it rarely dropped below freezing at night. Day was never cooler than 70-ish. Pain in the ass dealing with that stuff in combat. I’ve been out for a few years now, but I just grabbed some of the Gen 4 surplus ECWCS stuff for use in my civilian job doing static observation at night. Tested it out today in the driving snow and it was great. Thanks for the video. It was a good refresher for how to layer the stuff properly. Stay safe.
I never seen your videos before and this was the first. First, thank you for all you done for this nation. Second, I was infantry long ago and the cold and being wet was the worst. It was why I got out. I’m glad to see the huge improvements.
The ECWCS is a derivitive of the Special Forces Cold Weather system, which was reasearched and developed extensively with Patagonia. The original ones were Patagonia products tags and all. They issued the entire set with a DVD that showed you how to use/wear it all. As S&S said the level 5 is an outer layer. It is water resistant/repellant, but you will get soaked in steady rain, however, it will dry MUCH faster and still keep you warmer than your BDUs. And it is much quieter than the Gore-tex. I wore my level 5 top and bottoms in just about every environment, from wet forests of Germany to the mountains of AK. Plus if you tear it in the field, you can just DX it. Big Puff pants and jacket are also water repellant. The originals weren't. Fleece doesn't block wind. No fleece does, unless it has a semi-permeable layer built into it. It is a thermal layer. You wear it under a shell in cold weather. For that, it's only equal is a thin puff jacket. But fleece keeps you warm when wet. Puff jackets do not. CW Boots have liners so you can pull them out at night and shove them in your bag with you to dry them out and warm them up. Or stop and swap if they are soaked. However, they are meant for VERY cold weather. Also, you do NOT wear thick socks with those. The liner is the insulation. Wear normal socks. Those old issue 80lb boots are hot garbage. Not a single dude who had the option to wear something else actually wore those. As far as layering, you start your patrol cold, so wear as little as necessary to not be hypothermic. Then carry a shell/and thermal layer that you can throw over you (with kit) for extended stops. If you gotta pick one, bring the rain shell, it serves double duty. If you need warmth too, throw in the fleece. It looks like it was made for pregnant FOBBITs because you are supposed to be able to throw it over other layers, or kit. In extreme cold, with no rain possible, I would just carry Puff in a compression sack. You mentioned a similar technique when you go camping. The minimum temperature on the sleep sytem is WITH Big Puffy on (lvl 7s). Not just silkys and waffles. The ECWCS is a badass system. In my time that spanned the mid 90s to 2021, it was the best gear the Army gave me. As a winter SF guy, I used it often. I still keep and use pieces of in my civ life. As S&S said, it is meant for extended use in CW, when you have long dismounted patrols, maybe with sleds, maybe with snow machines, maybe just your ruck. Its not really out and back from the FOB gear.
The ninja suit is your friend. It may not be much insulation, but having a layer directly snug against the skin prevent feeling the draft. Wear it when outside under the fleece or in the sleeping bag. He forgot the socks. In cold weather get thick loose wool sock. They absorb the sweat a lot better than synth, warmer and more comfortable than synth. They also tend to induce less sweat than synth. Simething about plastic against the skin that our bodies do not like. When sleeping in wet gear, leave zippers open a bit. The sweat will build up over night and you will wake up in a puddle especially in a Gortex bag. I prefer a poncho over the Gortex bivy. In damp raining weather, ventilation is important to minimize condensation. Build a proper shelter with a poncho and just use the sleeping bags without a bivy unless it is pouring diwn rain. Avoid the condensation inside a bivy ehich will get your sleeping bag wet.
I was in the Army in the mid 80's, Ft. Bliss, TX. High desert, scorching hot in summer, bitter freezing in the winter, complete with 2 feet of snow. We had NONE of that stuff. Crappy ass cotton blend long underwear (Yes, I swear to god cotton). I always wore my good expensive civilian long underwear. Luckily the gun system I was on was mounted on an APC chassis so I didn't have to carry anything. We were issued a feather filled Extreme Cold Weather bag. Weighed 10 pounds and packed to the size of a small trash can. OMG it was warm but you sure couldn't carry it. No Goretex. No bivy. Had the old rubber wet weather gear. Since it was the cold war we always trained for NBC, so we nearly always had on our chemical suits, which were quite warm in winter, die of heatstroke in summer. Those damn leather gloves with the wool liners were a joke, we had only the simple leather boots so I wore my nice civilian socks. Seems the Army has caught up, whether you get to use it or not still seems to be the issue. My time with the Army I knew was over when I was standing in formation, smugly wearing my wet weather top due to the very rare rain. Top looks out, says We are't in the field, take off that field gear! So I stood in the rain with my issued rain gear draped over my arm. Stupidity level off the chart. Thanks for your service, glad you seem to be ok, hope you ride it out to retirement and enjoy many years of it.
The reason for the order in which you later, especially the sleep system, is all about loft. Insulation with down, or synthetic versions that are equally "puffy" rely on loft for insulation. If it gets squished down it loses insulative value. So you put the lighter bag inside the warmer one because the warmer one's loft is going to be doing the heavy lifting on keeping you warm
Man, I am really glad I came across this channel. I had to sub. Finding this channel made me fell like it feels when you run into an old friend after a long time, and you are genuinely glad to see them. I love your content, and some of it brings back a lot of memories. I think you are squared away, and I just keep watching them. Thank you for making them.
Cool stuff. Things have improved a lot in just the 15 years since I've been in. Of course I would have never got to touch any of this "snivel gear" as a paratrooper.
Living in Oregon I always carry the GoreTex pants and jacket in my truck. Surplus (new) price is a small per cent of its original cost and it's a great value. I've used the sleep system in November tent camping at about 6,000 feet. I'm older now so I have to wear fleece top and bottom with the thin thermals. But with the outside temperature below freezing I do ok. Just have to remember to not breath into the sleeping bag but wear a balaclava so my mouth is outside of the bag. Moist breath can make these bags damp and clammy due to the evaporation.
Your a young fella, my set up was fully woodland. We had gortex which is still the ultimate and woodland Rio stop. Our under layers were polypro we called them. One option of a wool sweater at the PX but it was restricted usually.
the level 5 softshell was supposed to be worn in colder (under 45 degrees) instead of the nylon blend clothing. it would dry quicker when soaked and dump excess heat while still protecting you from the harsh elements. so it's an inbetween of goretex hardshells and whatever everyday warm top. when you stop you were suppoed to done the level 7. if it was hard precip wear your goretex.
Hello my outdoors friend, thank you for sharing this very informative video. I remember the cold weather at at Graffenwehr. This was back in the mid 60's. You have a ton of gear. The very best to for your good health and safety. Stay healthy. 🤗
Stationed in Fort Wainwright, AK; We used the soft-shell as our outer layer all winter. It cuts wind, it is not insulative. Goretex isn't insulative either, it just breathes terrible (and it DOES breath). You layer up your insulation under the soft-shell layer. -20F, mixed inside and outside work? Silk top and bottom, waffle top, soft shells, ECWCS boots since buying the good winter boots was way too damned expensive. Parkas (puffy/marshmallow depending on where you are) only came out on things like static guard duty below -40F. Same with the mickey-mouse boots, though those aren't actually part of the ECWCS system IIRC.
See that's what sucked about regular Army, the retarded rules on snivel gear. I'm a southern MS boy, so I pulled out my puffy jacket all the time in the field.
@@GruntProof If we were static in the cold, we wore the heavy stuff. I actually did my first at-unit 240B qualification at -60ish in the puffy and those stupid trigger-finger mittens. And the gigantic over-mittens when I wasn't shooting. Marching and heavy activity relied on "'comfortably cool", as well as keeping extra layers to add either when what you were wearing soaked through, or you stopped working and needed the extra insulation. The fleece was my LIFELINE on those days, it adds a TON of lofting insulation under the shell layers without adding much bulk. BN layout? I could go from busting my ass unloading connexes to sitting there for an hour in the cold and not a single bit of brasss could say anything about the fleece as long as it was under the softshell.
Early 90's at Ft Wainwright Alaska. Light Infantry carrying 60MM Mortar. During winter Poly Pros, Gortex, Danners or Matterhorn Boots, and Beanie. In the field with snow shoes and skis VB Boots. Field Jacket liner and Woobie. Fresh socks when sleeping in bag with clothes and boots in the bag to keep warm.
You and Mr. Gruntproof are correct that fleece does not stop the wind. You need to wear a windbreaker jacket over it. Me, civilian, wears the good old M65 jacket. I own fleece long sleeve t-shirts under my shirts. Then fleece works well to keep you warm. www.asmc.de/unterwaescheset-thermofleece-oliv-type-ii
I still rock my black polar-tech fleece, that fleece is warm and durable, it's gotta be close to 15 years old now and been to Iraq and back and all the zippers still work and no rips or any damage. The newer ACU green fleece and Tan were trash compared to the OG black one.
Wow this stuff is awesome. I was a Military Police Sergeant E-7 from 1971 to 1991 and after Viet Nam everything in uniforms began to change. I was issued the old white Mickey Boots several times over the years and other than weighing 150 pounds each they were great boots for staying warm even if your foot got wet but avoided water if possible. I have both Black and white Mickeys today but pushing 70 years old they are a bit heavy for everyday use. I loved those old Field jacket liners as well for just an added bit of warmth when warn without the field jacket. The next level of Parkas were okay but bulky and the musty smell always seemed to be there. The old black combat boots were good if you you didn't have to do PT in them and after that all we had were those stupid buckle up rubber boots which were a pain to get on anyways. I still have my original black combat boots that were issued to be at Fort Knox KY in Dec 1971. Thanks for your service young man and remember PTSD never goes away but there is help out there today which almost didn't exist in my time.
I joined in 86. Back then I was stationed in Lewis at 2nd Batt. We were first issued j’ai Shits in wool. Poly pro m65 field pants and parks and liners. Then we also got the light weight woodland gortex tops and bottoms. Which we all wore and the first version of the ECWC parkas and pants. We would were this due to the nasty winter weather at Lewis, Yakama and if we trained in AK. We also had the gortex sleep system. Was really good stuff at the time. Until I left in 96 . The sleeping bag situation was shit. At Division we still only had the 1950 sleeping bag. Used it once at Robin Sage and once at a winter live fire range when Bragg was closed down. But us NCOs stayed out. They brought out or bags. I’ve owned and used the Carinthis Def4 and the Troupen bags. Warm but my large size stretches it and makes it not warm. So I got myself the three piece ECWS sleeping bag system in woodland. For camping. It’s bulky. But damn warm. It rates well. I’m waiting to see if the us army updates the sleeping system. I’ll buy it when they do.
21:36 wearing a larger warm jacket over the vest/armor is not a dumb thing to do - standing guard/post and it keeps you at good combat effectiveness. if you need to reload you open or in worst case rip open the jacket. Swedish Army SOP in the early 2000s were to either ditch the jacket/coat fully and win the fight, or have it open the entire time to access the ammo.
Great stuff! Used to never consider those clunky goretex pants with the suspenders, but when my 1SG found a TM that showed different configurations for the system when we were in Ukraine, I tried it- definitely works! Worn instead of the regular uniform pants. Also sometimes added the old WW2 brown sweater into the mix- kind of felt equivalent to the waffle top. I will definitely try using the marshmallow top as sleeping gear, good advice!
Thanks! I just slept in the marshmallow suit overnight and was fairly cold. That was just above freezing. You will survive, but it definitely wasn't comfortable
As part of 2/30 IN 4/10 MTN, we got the experimental 1st Generation ECWCS. The 1st Gen wind jackets were a lot looser and didn't restrain your movement. We would wear the marshmellow suits on static guard, but never outside the wire. The fleece jackets looked like they were made by hobos, since we got the "rough drafts," but everyone loved them as either in-garrison windbreakers or as an additional layer over grid fleece. Gotta be careful with the marshmellow suits because we had problems with them tearing easily on sharp stuff.
I just discovered your channel a few days ago. You do a darned fine job. With plenty of winter camping and hunting experience, I say....you speak truth.
In the mid-80's, a lot of troops wore "Hawk" Jackets in W. Germany. This jacket was a rain jacket with either a wool army blanket of woobie sewn into the jacket as a liner. It was usually worn by itself or over the M65 field jacket while on FTX's or Graf trips. The local post tailor made/assembled them for a decent fee.
I got all that issued to me in 2006, when I was at Drum. I've never needed more than the silks & grid fleece. I tested my Michelin suit once... I was sweating like hell in that thing.- inside of 30 seconds. I learned in Basic that I didn't need much more than an extra t-shirt & PT shorts under my uniform, anyway.
All the gear he went over with y'all is very expensive. I left the army and never turned in my cold weather gear and the government caught up with me and took what I did not turn in to my unit supply it came out of my taxes in long run . But hey I still own all my ECWS and then some . I'm glade I still own it paid. Some items like the polley pro and silk ninja underwear you keep anyway mine getting a tad tight these days as I was a 29 waist in service.
@@thalanoth yea well Before the War with FOBs > i trained out in the field in the cold and we slept out in tents and on the ground for a month of training atv a time. I was a skinny grunt. so staying warm i warm when not patroling with heavy gear was tough for me. those polly pros Usually would rolled up in my back roll for those many cold occasions. we usaully didnt wear snibble gear because I for one overheated. we didnt have any modern gear and stayed out in elements many hours training from germany to Hood to Colorado to korea I frooze often. I was in 22 years and felt many a misrable day of being cold. I was around for 1st Gen ECWCS we never could wear them during movement but we picked and choose what to carry wrapped up or sometimes it was so cold you needed to wear at least upper. its a trade off, because sweat can turn to ice
You think the same as me. Infantryman no wonder. You can't go on a patrol or do physical exertion with layers of clothes even in freezing weather and not overheat; you can't take it off on the movement because you don't have no place to stuff it and your sweat will freeze after after you stop. It was hard on me being one of the smaller guys. I used to freeze my arse off. What I'd do was bring smallest compact snibble gear I could stuff in a pocket or a buck pack I loved to wear on the older LBE in 90s. Up to 2012 I'd stuff them with all the mission gear In my issued mole II assault pack. Or strap in to the side for quick access with bungee straps. Most infantryman (grunts) did the same thing depending we all froze in winter.
Its that zipper that runs the entire front vs the one that is a partial pull over with a zipper collar. You freeze your balls off in the full zipper front. Wind runs right through it.
@@tacticalministries3508 I've always used a 4 layer system. Under ware, base, mid and outer. If you can't get it done with that, well... you got the wrong gear.
We couldn't stop for more than 5 minutes in Sangin without attracting a suicide IED so you went out in what you deemed necessary and if the weather changed you just sucked it up!
Thanks Randall for making some sense of all the layers. I have a lot of this gear to use when hiking and camping. I’m a 63 year old fart from Saraland Alabama just north of Mobile. Not too far from your part of Mississippi. I love the fleece jacket for cool days but I’m certainly not using it in a tactical environment and I definitely see your points about it. Thanks again for your service and congratulations on your upcoming retirement. Hope to see you around the Gulf Coast sometime.
One thing they NEVER tell anyone with the sleeping bag ratings, is that there's always 2 ratings, the one with, and the one without the puss pad. If the rating is something really fucking awesome, it's almost ALWAYS WITH the puss pad... And Grunt Proof, love your videos man! Though you must be a Mike, because NONE of that shit would have EVER fit in our rucks. The only room we ever had in a ruck for personal items was for a few field stripped MREs, a few pair of socks, and a poncho & poncho liner, period. If it was super cold weather we had to use that extra molle bag that was made specifically to throw the full MSS in (already compressed in it's compression sack that is) and it hung below our rucks, and movement with that thing SUCKED ASS - a click an hour max lol. Dam I don't miss cold weather missions lol. The trick I learned while patrolling in cold weather (we don't wear body armor) was allllways use layers under your BDU tops that had full length zippers; this way I patrolled with all my shit unzipped/unbuttoned so the heat would leak out, then during a long security halt or other pauses like radio checks or flash traffic I would zip it all up then do what I had to do. This way I never soaked my clothes with sweat so I wouldn't freeze during the halts. :)
We Marines called the extreme cold weather parka the Happy jacket. We were issued our cold weather gear for Afghanistan 2012, much lower in elevation, like 3k feet so all I needed was our fleece which apparently is better than the one y'all are issued.
I used to timber cruise in the Rocky Mountains of British Columbia Canada. Some pretty extreme conditions. I now have a pretty ridiculous collection of cold weather gear. Used to go for a walk in -20 C when home from camp
Howling winds at -20 C and I would just laugh at mother nature. Having the right gear makes all the difference in the world. Not sure what the coldest I worked in, but -30 C would be just another day at the office. Thank you for your service, from a Canadian.
Excellent video! Finally from somebody who knows what the hell their talking about, with actual experience. I’ve got the old Gen1 gortex woodland parka and pants, it works very good, keeps me warm and dry when running around in the woods in winter. Some times it’s too warm. And I totally agree, and I say it all the time, you can’t beat Military surplus gear, it’s bomb proof.
The reason the thick sleeping bag is going on the inside of the thin one is:When you sleep you sweat. The moist is mowing outwards to the chell. If it below 0 degrees celsius it will freeze in the top layer and build up moist over time. It's better to lose insulation of the thin one than the thick one.
He is right about the Carinthia bags, (they also make terrific jackets that compress down and bivy bags) i use the defence 1, 4, 6 and tropen. I have been using them here for years now.
0:00 - 2:21 Intro
2:22 - 13:19 Quick overviews of each item:
2:22 Base layer (silk weight)
2:47 Combat shirt
3:11 Waffle top/bottoms (mid weight)
3:47 Wind breaker
4:10 Wet weather top & bottoms
4:38 Lightweight softshell top & bottoms
6:01 Fleece jacket
6:34 Extreme cold weather (ECW) parka "marshmallow jacket" & bottoms
7:53 Balaclava "hoodie"
8:19 ECWCS gloves
9:34 Regular boots
10:21 Winter boots
12:10 Sleep system
13:20 - 30:28 Application of the items:
13:50 Layering
14:10 Why layering in combat environments is impractical
16:23 Cold weather
18:10 Wet weather
20:04 Considering weight/quantity of items
20:20 Sleeping (clothing)
22:08 Fleece jacket
23:45 Sleeping (sleep system)
27:32 - 29:57 ECW parka "Marshmallow jacket"
28:04 Zippers & the emergency exit system
28:43 Pockets
29:58 ECW parka pants
30:29 outro
If you are stationed up here in Alaska you will learn what each layer is used for. Silks are your lvl 1s and meant for movement. Waffles are lvl 2s and can be meant for movement but will heat up more, also absorbs the sweat from lvl 1s. The Fleece jacket is your lvl 3s and is meant for insulation only, NOT AN OUTDOOR JACKET (leg units.) The Windbreaker is the lvl 4sand is meant for movements but never recommended for some reason. Soft Shell Jacket are your lvl 5s and will be your normal uniform up here, will wear with silks and waffles (meant for places with snow, highly water resistant. ) The Wet Weather System are your lvl 6s and as said in the name, you don't get wet. Your Parka System are your lvl 7s and is meant to keep you warm and heat up your inner layers to get dry. If any more questions, just ask anyone in Alaska and/or with an Arctic tab.
Thanks!
@@GruntProof No problem. Just trying to help improve you, your soldiers, and the viewers. Things are different here than Germany.
Ayyyy, another AKer! Wainwright? I was with 1-25 from 2010 to the end of 2014, specifically BTB, D-52nd AT, and then 2-8FA, as a COLT/FIST
Thank you for the awesome system synopsis! Brief, concise, informative and accurate. Maybe you should of written the manual?
Thank you so much, do you have any advice for legs
Love it! "Issued Cold Weather Gear Not Allowed to Wear It." It was the the same back in 1987-1994.
The only thing we where allowed once was the pile cap and the parka. Never wore the trigger mittens or liners. Wet weather pants never came out of the plastic bag. Yeah almost half the stuff we where issued we never used.
Wtf Army, Marines didn't give AS, we used everything we get our hands on, all be it we didn't get much, lol.
Poncho liners... Poncho liners are a gift from DOD.
Man... you guys had poncho liners? We had to cut a hole in a WWII US Army issue Wool Blanket.
Woobies are man's best friend and is a way of life
I never liked it 🤷🏻♂️
ah yes the venerable woobie.. always a must
The fart sack is a gift all infantry soldiers love
Brit here, 2003 Iraq, took a Buffalo shirt, ( non issue at the time self purchase )a made in Sheffield UK very useful cold weather item, worn under waterproof or jacket , wicks sweat away so you dont chill when you stop any thing physical, I brought mine after noticing SNCO"s all had them, in fact wore it on its own walking around the base of the Eiger early spring/late winter, did not need anything else on top of it,
Love how many levels can be omitted and or substituted, this is adaptable for temperature ranges, activity level and humidity( rain, snow, wind). Worked outside 30 years, loose fitting moisture wicking shirt and sock liners keep dampness at bay. 6am - 3:30pm the weather can change 20 degrees and wind, snow turns into rain! Goretex outerwear to stay dry or unzip to vent. Less is always more, unless you are sitting down fishing or hunting. Always have an EXTRA snack in your pocket. That is to share with the lads. Amazing gear.
This is great. In the winter of 1944 my best friend Charlie was with company L of the 318 reg. 80th 318 reg. div. engaged with the German army west of Metz. The were pulled out of the fight in the morning, loaded on trucks and hauled north. Early the next morning, the gathered together in snow with no winter gear to be told the along with elements of an armored div. we’re goin to attack the left flank of the German breach into the Arredens. They had only the gear they were carrying, with no chow or cold weather cover. The ate only what the could scrounge for 4 days. At one point Charlie said, the chewed pine needles to have some “taste” in their mouth. Eventually they reached their objective, on the outskirts of the town called Bastogne. Charlie said it was one hell of a Christmas!
May God bless you and your buddy Charlie.
The key to using this gear: start “comfortably cool”, aka cold, before movement, AND more importantly, the 5 Ps!! The puffy suit is strictly for static positions and overland movements, like a snowmobile
Great tips
Great video Trooper. I will tell you this, you have no idea how good ya'll have it these days! I spent time at FT Carson and Korea back when the M65 Field jacket and liner were the mainstay, never issued any thermal or Goretex, shitty black leather gloves and wool liners. I am glad to see things getting better for our fighting men!
Those old sleeping bags were worthless in Korea, as well as the mickey mouse boots. I swear nothing worked there.
I have a modern Alpha Industries M65. Quite warm and comfortable, probably not good for freezing temperatures. Probably too bulky with the liner.
I still break out mine when it's dry
I was born at an army base no longer around in Korea near the DMZ from what my parents said
As far as the Poncho, we had a Liner to go with the Poncho bout no one used it. During wet weather, we used the Rain Jacket and Pants. No one really used the Sleeping bag, shelter half and pegs because I was in Armored Calvary so we were always on the move. When we slept it was inside our tracks with the heater on because it was freezing cold outside. No one bothered to bring the bulky sleeping bag except when in Germany at Graf. At Graf the sleeping bag was on top of our cots . 90% of the time we were on the ranges waiting to shoot so we slept on our tracks. When we did return to the barracks at Graf, we slept on our cots.
The only time I ever used the Army Mess Kit was in Basic and AIT. No one ever used it at my Duty Stations because in the Field it was C-Rats and once in awhile a hot meal. We used the Canteen Cup to make Hot Chocolate or Coffee. The Vast Majority of TA-50 Gear was never used.
Being on Tracks, I wore a CVC Helmet and never used the Steel Pot except on a very, I mean very few occasions. My Steel Pot sat inside my TA-50 Duffle Bag on top of my Wall Locker. The Flack Jacket they issued sat inside my Wall Locker never used
I love the Marine and Army ECWCS you can find in surplus stores. Great for long distance motorcycle riding in any kind of cold and wet conditions.
I'm still looking for a set of wet-weather gear in GOOD shape for a reasonable price =/ Shoulda kept mine when I got out, but I didn't have a bike then soooo
I still have my Poly Pro's and Matterhorns issued to me back in 89 and 90 in the 10th mountain Division, we tested the original ECWS gear and also were issued the old M57 equipment including the Mickey mouse boots.
So much has changed from when I was in back in the Seventies.
We were issued white t-shirt and either boxer or brief undies, wool long johns that itched like no tomorrow, od green socks, black cruit boots, starch fatigues a baseball cap and a field jacket. Also the green glove liners and black gloves which did not do squat in cold weather.
We were issued our TA-50 which included a field jacket liner, pile cap, parker, and liner, og shirt, mittens, field pants and liner, wool scarf. In Alaska we got issued our Artic TA-50 which had the Mickey Mouse Boots.
Wearing the Army Cold Weather Gear, you were FREEZING. The Mickey Mouse Boots kept your feet warm but you had to change socks because your feet would sweat and get super cold.
In Alasks, We had our sleeping bag and over it was the Artic Bag.
We wore the Clothing in layers and it was still COLD and COLD especially wearing the Old Steel Pot Helmet with Pile Cap wrapped around it.
The Pile Cap made your Head Itch and Sweat, then turn cold. The Wool Long Johns were a JOKE and did not keep you warm at all.
The Army dumped that gear which was from WWII. It was all useless especially the gloves.
I bought Black Ski Gloves which kept my hands warm. In Germany most of the Soldiers bought the German Military boots which were insulated. The Army issued Black Cruit Boots were useless.
Depending on your foot size, Coleman's Surplus has Swiss Military Boots (Full Leather/black, A1 Quality/Cold weather). Size 11's normally come brand new. Some will have 1-2 upper loops missing. Loops are available from Weaver Leather, very cheap. Loops come with rivet to fasten into open hole. Boots $65 price tag! Best fitting boot I've ever seen.
This whole system is one of the things I'm glad I kept during turn in. I use many pieces of this system very often here in central Idaho.
I spent 18 months at fort Richardson Alaska in 1972-73 the gear we had was a layer system, the wool blend long johns , wool shirt and pants, poplin field pants with liner and parka and liner , fur trimmed hood (wolf or coyote ) Balaclava with sheet of plastic in between the layers on the face to keep your face from freezing when it’s -45 and your getting off or on a Huey, C 130 , or an occasional chinook , that hood would be snorkeled pretty tight too , Arctic mittens you’d have trigger finger mittens, with wool liners , White VB boots , Norwegian rag wool socks ,web gear ,a ruck , a mountain and an arctic down bag , poplin cover, the mountain went inside the arctic bag and you laced the zippers together with parachute cord waterproof bag ,we’d roll the sleeping bag tight then take some para cord make a slip knot and wind the cord tight, you could get it compressed pretty small , air mattress , poncho,arctic canteen , one extra set of long johns , 3 pairs of socks, 12 foot piece of climbing rope and a carabiner, ,ski’s and poles ,snowshoes a knife ,a fire starting kit , I carried ammo when we went to the field, don’t tell anybody ,the have bears where we went black , brown and white ones, squad leaders carried 12 gauge pumps with slugs and buck shot or a rifle bigger than an 3006, each squad had ahkio toboggan , it had a shovel and an ax and a bow saw, an arctic squad tent , a Yukon multi fuel stove , lantern, 2 Jerry cans of mogas , 1 Jerry can of water, 2 cases of c rations . That was a long time ago, E co 4/23 inf 172nd light arctic infantry BDE airmobile , you have some nice stuff but in Alaska it would be spring and early fall gear , I did have a down vest with hand warmer pockets over my kidneys and I carried solid stick hand warmers ,I’d throw 2 in my sleeping bag at night , 50 below I’d sleep in my boxers and we turned the stove off at night and I never slept cold ,that old gear worked I don’t remember being cold I didn’t think much of VB boots thanks for the video , stay safe
Good video if I might add;
The soft shell is to replace the issued uniform during cold weather.
The level 5 soft shell has built in ventilation zippers in the chest, arm pits, hips of pants to prevent over heating during increased activity, patrolling etc. It also allows you to quickly adjust the under layers with the high zip legs to take them off quickly with boots still on. Wheras the standard issue uniform does not allow for that.
It also doesn't project sound like the goretex will. If wet weather is expected, the goretex is worn over it at which point the sound of the fabric wouldn't be an issue.
The boot liner is "supposed" to be swapped out if the boot becomes wet. But yeah, usually the boot is warm enough without them.
Agreed wind breaker and fleece are hot garbage.
The ECWCS is designed for multi day missions in mind where adjusting layers often may happen.
We've just been accustomed to having our FOBs and COPs to go back to instead of old school patrol bases with artic tents far away from the mother unit where we'd be more dependent on the ECWCS.
Now also, good luck getting your leadership to agree to some of the techniques I mention.
Cool thanks!
@@GruntProof I know you don't have to care much about the vanity of camo pattern still getting issued OCP but I've been dying UCP Level 5 and 6 brown/ tan to demonstrate an affordable alternative out there. I even turned the level 7 a nice brown using RIT Tan. Look forward to watching more.
@@sstrainingsolutions3832 that's cool as hell
This is a very helping comment, before this I thought the soft shell equipment and fleece and winter boots and booties were useless. I would line my boots with ziplocks that I use for cloathing while in very wet areas
@@zachredline Very cool!
So much good equipment gets issued and just tossed aside because no one understood how and when it should be used. Thanks for the feedback!
Dress in layers...use a silk/polypropylene under a heavy wool/cotton blend sweater, then a coat
I'm an Army vet - I got out in 2000 - thank you for telling us what items they replaced - I remember the old goretex was cozy as hell - I was in Alaska with it
@Ferinir Nice - I remember the old poly pros and those were comfortable. We also wore the "sleeping shirt" which was a green thin poly pro.
I still have a sleeping shirt!
Retired from the Army in 94, went in in 72, what a wonderful advancement in cold weather gear since I retired, My first 4 years of service i spent in the field in Germany, simply froze my butt off, it got better, and i got smarter. This was very enjoyable. Thank you and Happy New Year. Thank you for your service
Cool where at?
@@GruntProof First of all, Happy New year. I was in Darmstadt from 72-76, but we spent most of our time in the Fulda Gap on the border. Second tour was Heidelberg 80-84, then Tagu, Korea, the back to the Netherlands, 87-92, On to Ft Hauchuca for retirement in 94. A few quick deployments in between. I have been retired 26 years now and miss it every day. I just got off the phone with a guy I was stationed with in the 70,s.
I miss it every day, except maybe PT. Just looking at the new PT test, I dont think I could do any of it, let alone pass.
Thank you for your service. Enjoy it all while you can, I never got rich, but my experience in the Army made up for that a hundredfold. Take care of yourself.
Thank you! I was in Baumholder
Good stuff, thanks. I was a Marine grunt 81-85 still wearing WWII issue gear and ALICE packs. I got to like the field jacket with liner for cold, but freezing in Korea just south of the DMZ near rice paddies in winter and in a canyon where wind never stopped, I wish I had that favorite jacket of yours. We were supposed to be issued parkas on ship before the beach landing but something went wrong. A couple of jarheads in our company got frostbite that first night after we did a 25 mile hump, got there just at sunset and our sweat turned to ice almost instantly. Anyway, it's good things were upgraded as the old stuff didn't cut it to well.
I volunteered for every night patrol there was just to stay warm moving all the time.
I don't regret any of it, though I might have been bitchin under my breath.
Training with ROK Marines in mountain warfare training was a great experience.
For those of you who have seen combat, thanks for your service. I got lucky, never had to go anywhere as nothing happened while was in, though I really thought we would go to war with the USSR being the height of the cold war.
Can't imagine what those poor gi's had to put up with in bastogne.
I was just there and it was cold and crappy. Perfect time to visit!
I’ve actually slept in my car in -42°F here in Wyoming at a truck stop with a wool blanket. I did fine though the night in mid weight clothing. I got off work around midnight and had to be at the recruiting station at 7am. It’s not all that bad as long as you’re out of the wind and no my heater did not work at the time.
a good buddy of mine served as a German Paratrooper, back in the day ... while doing Nato exercise in Norway, (in winter time), he told me they used to bivouac like the Norwegian guys, they dig a fox hole in the snow, and slept on bearskin ... he told me it does the job pretty decently ... I've personally never tried
Best ECWCS video out there! I have watched more than once and you have helped me stay warm and dry with some of this bulletproof gear. Nothing makes going outdoors more enjoyable than having the right clothing that makes it comfortable and this system does that at so many levels. Thank you for the brutally honest review, I am sure many of us have been better than "just surviving" thanks to this review, I know this helped me up my game.
thanks!
Thank you for all your years of service, and for sharing all this great information!
Coastie here (from Michigan LOL). That "patrol" bag works just fine in the upper 20's//low 30's. Took two boys through scouts and got both a MSS setup. Best 4 season bags on the shelf. For me, back in the 80's, our Arctic gear consisted of the bunny boots, N-3B parka, or the Navy Deck Jacket for extreme cold weather (which included a snap in covered foam liner/insert that would float your cold lifeless body from the tropical waters of the Arctic if you fell overboard. This was before GORTEX was a thing so the backside of the pants and coat was coated in rubber. So it did not breath. Oh, and I wish they had the Level 7 suit back in my camping days. I would have never taken a MSS, I'd just sleep in the suit, and I'd have to get the booties from the marines. As far as the BLACK fleece (what replaced the BEAR suit jacket), I've had one for 20 years. Best damn all around jacket for outdoors I've owned. I found if you put a pull over under your fleece jacket, that worked great.
This was really interesting as a non military outdoors enthusiast. In the climbing world, we've kind of come to the same conclusion about the fleece. Puffy mid layers are now way preferred. They're warmer, lighter, and pack down smaller. Fleece is really comfortable for just like kicking around in, but not entirely practical for being in the backcountry.
Something you guys might consider...
Put a lighter more form fitting mid layer under the marshmallow top, and size your marshmallow top large enough to go over your body armor. In the climbing world, this is known as a belay jacket, and that marshmallow top you have looks to be about the weight and cut of a typical belay jacket. So that way when you start out you can have that on, and be able to quickly take it off when you start to warm up. And then depending on how cold it is, you would have your waffle top and potentially a lighter puffy mid layer under your armor. Then if you stop and get cold again, just throw on the marshmallow top. And of course you can sleep in it, too.
BTW, the waffle top is sold on the civilian market as the Patagonia R1, which is like the single most beloved piece of gear for backcountry stuff. Looks like the exact same material. A wool baselayer with that and a shell will keep you crazy warm. Would suggest ditching the ninja suit in favor of wool, though. Kinda pricy, but if you're out in the field a lot then it's probably worth it. Same weight, way better insulation, and it doesn't stink like the synthetic stuff does.
P.S. And no, that bag I can guarantee you will not be good down to -50 degrees. Looks like equivalent to about a 20 degree commercial bag, which is about the biggest synthetic bag that's practical to carry. Even at that, they'll pretty much take up your entire pack. A real -50 degree bag is always super high fill down, and is still quite large. And that's saying something because down compresses to a tiny fraction of it's uncompressed size, vs. synthetic that doesn't really compress at all.
It's totally a cost thing. A real -50 degree bag could cost around 1k dollars. So obviously they can't afford to issue that to everyone, considering there are only a few places in the habited world that even come close to getting that cold.
Thanks! That's interesting, I didn't know they made wool base layers....I could never stand the feel of wool on my skin. I did a below freezing camp with the ninja top and the old Army wool sweater over that, and that was pretty damn warm.
@@GruntProof Yea old school wool is the way to go. The baselayers are either made from merino or cashmere, so they're not itchy. They move moisture extremely well. Main thing though they don't stink like the synthetic baselayers do.
But yea, wool is definitely better than any man made material. Especially for socks. You can kind of get by with synthetic socks, I mean they're obviously a thousand times better than cotton, but wool is the only way to go really. Basically anything that touches your skin should be wool or a wool blend.
Oh and sleeping bag liners! You guys need sleeping bag liners for those jungle bags. It will improve the bag by about 10 degrees, and it will prevent dirt and oil from getting into the synthetic fibers, which will keep the bag performing better for longer.
Yeah...I have never seen any of that stuff and I feel the late 90's weren't that long ago. But alas, that was the old BDU system with the good Gortex jackets and bottoms you mentioned. Up at Ft. Drum, we would only use those, the BDU top/bottoms and the Polypropylene tops/bottoms if needed. We had the leather gloves with inserts you mentioned, Trigger-finger gloves and Arctic Bear gloves. Our boots would range from normal leather boots (GI Style Speedlace Combat Boots...from internet searching), a type of black leather Corcoran winter boots and then we all had white Mickey Mouse boots which I never used. We had a brown neck gaitors and the extremely thick green Balaclava. The sleeping bag system seemed thicker than yours but also had a 3-tiered system. Summer, mid-layer and extreme cold.
Oh...and I almost forgot, BDU winter caps could fold down to cover your ears/back of head. Then we also had the hat that could come down and cover the whole neck with velcro stays. I had the one on the right. image.cloudcommercepro.com/40591069.png
Yea the Snoopy hat!! I had that issued to me in Baumholder Germany in 03
I’m from tropical country and it’s so boring, nothing but sun and rain. It’s hot all year here, hot enough to get heatstroke everyday even indoor without AC on but in rainy season, it’s rain non stop for days literally. That fleece that you don’t, i see it in surplus stores all the time here, maybe it is true that many people don’t like it😂 i’m here cause i see a lot of different kind of cold weather gears from US army and they look interesting. Very good video sir, thank you
This is very cool to see. I chanced on a military issue ninja top and waffle top at the thrift store and wanted to know how it was used. I didn’t expect to come across such a detail rich video with the whole ECWS system laid out with real life practical uses in the field. Neat!
I'm a medium sized human who buys surplus when possible. I picked up the ECWCS level 7 top and bottom (top in medium long, bottom in medium regular), and the airforce version of the ECWCS level 6 goretex rain gear (top in large regular, bottom in medium long). The Level 7 is actually able to fit under the level 6 well enough cuz the goretex jacket is a size up.
I'm gonna have to try out just sleeping in the level 6 and 7 while it's raining, cuz it seems like it should just be a wearable bivy and sleeping bag now. The one downside is it makes you a fricking gigantic cumbersome beast, but it doesn't feel like it pressures you in or weighs to much, just that it feels awkward to move.
Still wear my 'Ninjas' & Waffles in Michigan. Layer other clothing since I keep my home at 50*.
This review was good to see again since being out 4 years now. You touch on some key points of Military training that I had forgotten.
I’ve been in extended temps that cold. WOOL! Wool is a godsend! -20 to -40 Fahrenheit you’ll be ok in proper wool. Minus’s 33 base layer, darn tough expedition socks, WeatherWool outer garment and neck gaiter, Canada goose arctic hat, Dachstein extreme warm gloves or mitts with the military ecwcs flyers mitts and I’m good for a long time. Mid layer and pants vary depending on where I am or going. Footwear varies as well, but Steeger Camuks for long treks are a beautiful thing. Finally got an xl mss in updated bags and the woodland bivy, but too warm now to take it outdoors and put it through the ringers. Can’t say enough good things about Kifaru slickbags though.
Nothing beats a 5 button Sweater, you oldtimers like me know it. Old school layering on the coldest days on Ft. Bragg; long underwear, 5 button sweater, BDUs, thick socks and those old issue combat boots you only wore in the field! oh and the OD wool scarf.
Yes sir!
The silkweight underwear and fleece polortec jackets are actually made at a factory in Lansing, MI. I used to work there.
I don’t know if ours are different but the “soft shell” my unit was issued that replaced the gortex was completely water proof. I hate using the fleeces too by themselves so I got a smaller size and I just learned to layer it under the soft shell parka and it worked great
The absolute best cold weather system was the one we made back in the 1980’s. We took our Poncho Liner and our Wet Weather Top to the local seamstress and has her sew the liner into the rain top. I wore that for 3 years up in Wildflecken Germany in temperatures as low as -50 degrees and I never got cold. I was a Cavalry Scout.
When the hell is -50 (in this case F/C doesn't really matter) in basically the center of Germany? I live in a neighboring country at pretty much the same latitude and the lowest I've experienced was perhaps -20C.
OK, I just checked wiki. In my country, the lowest was -42C in 1929. Germany has the lowest of -46C in 2001 but that was near the mountainous border with Austria.
Now, I'm not saying it wasn't close to that temperature, but I'm having hard time believing it.
Germany Aug 2000- March 2004. Had Gore Tex, Poly Pros, Old School Woodland Camo Wet Weather Gear, Matterhorn Cold Weather Boots, Insulated Leather Gloves, Regular weight and Poly Pro neck Gaiters, Wool Balaclavas, Wool Sweaters, Wool Scarves, and White Thermal Underwear.
Would wear the long John Bottoms, under the Light Weight BDU (unless it was freezing ass cold then I'd wear the thicker Winter weight BDU) with the Wool Sweater, and the Regular (thinner) neck gaiter. We rarely wore the Gore Tex Pants, just the Jacket. We also had the first generation Flight Gloves, but the only ones allowed to wear them were Armored Security Vehicle crews (I was a POG, a Mike Papa). But people supplemented with their own stuff like Mechanix Gloves and driving gloves...whatever they could find at the PX or locally. We also had a black watch cap but it was itchy af. We would wear Poly Pro when it got really freaking cold, but they made you sweat like crazy. The only time I wore all the layers it was Single digits in Baumholder and we were training up to deploy to Kuwait (Pre-Invasion). We spent 24 hours in JLIS which was nice considering it was colder than a Well Digger's Ass! Ironic isn't it? Training for Hot weather during the coldest week in 2002.
I rarely ever used both sleeping bags of ECWS because we were also issued a down sleeping bag. We were also issued a Shelter half and poles. Which didn't make sense because we had the 3 man pop-up tents. I would bring the heavier bag when it was cold, the bivy and my Woobie, and I was set.
Thank you for the system explanation. Nice to see that our services have some nicer options than the historic US warriors had ( a wool shirt to wear under a utility shirt) and the old mummy bags. Thank you also for being at the tip of the spear. Semper fi.
Thanks a lot! I got issued the wool sweater and still have it 🤣 That was pretty good
A good mid-layer alternative to the fleece jacket is the liner from the Bundeswehr flecktarn parka. Not applicable for military personnel but for civvies or back home that thing is a jacket in its own right. I love mine. I looked really nutty wearing it through the night I got stuck in Atlanta airport but I wasn't cold. When they shut down the airport at night shit gets cold even in Georgia.
I don't know why this channel hasn't blown up yet, but it deserves to.
Minnesotan here, I was in the CAV for 5 years before getting picked up. I haven't had to sleep on the ground in -40 F, but I have had to sleep in tin huts in -36 F with no heat or insulation. My advice is sleep in ninjas in the winter bag and throw your clothes and boots for the next day in the bottom of your bag with you. Starting the day out with warm clothing and boots can set you up for success. Putting on -36 boots in the morning sucks.
I live in Northern Minnesota and it gets damn cold. I have to admit though I’ve not been in the military, I love the cold weather items. I actually use my green polar fleece jacket in the winter quite a bit. (with a sleeveless winter vest under it.) it is quite warm, though it isn’t good at keeping the wind out- hence the vest.
I love the boots for deer hunting, when it’s still early in the winter.
When I winter camp I use the camo bivy along with the old, huge and heavy green ecw down sleeping bag. It’s not ideal to carry but it’s great for stationary camping & warm enough for the negative -24°F or colder, weather we have. I have the marshmallow suit but haven’t had a chance or need to use it yet. I plan on using it to go ice fishing. I also often use the old army green mukluks (I think they are out of circulation now) they are awesome. I have the Mickey/bunny boots too but I only use them for ice fishing because they are so heavy. But warm!!! If I want to be warm- I have to use military surplus- it’s the best and all I can afford! Lol!
Thanks for sharing. I know a lot of soldiers love it so there has to be something to it. It just never worked for me
I was always grateful that I was in a hotter part of Afghanistan. Even in the winter, it rarely dropped below freezing at night. Day was never cooler than 70-ish. Pain in the ass dealing with that stuff in combat. I’ve been out for a few years now, but I just grabbed some of the Gen 4 surplus ECWCS stuff for use in my civilian job doing static observation at night. Tested it out today in the driving snow and it was great. Thanks for the video. It was a good refresher for how to layer the stuff properly. Stay safe.
It's winter in Colorado while I'm watching this... as luck would have it I'm wearing the old school black fleece top. I agree.
I never seen your videos before and this was the first. First, thank you for all you done for this nation. Second, I was infantry long ago and the cold and being wet was the worst. It was why I got out. I’m glad to see the huge improvements.
Thanks for your service and the kind words!
The ECWCS is a derivitive of the Special Forces Cold Weather system, which was reasearched and developed extensively with Patagonia. The original ones were Patagonia products tags and all. They issued the entire set with a DVD that showed you how to use/wear it all.
As S&S said the level 5 is an outer layer. It is water resistant/repellant, but you will get soaked in steady rain, however, it will dry MUCH faster and still keep you warmer than your BDUs. And it is much quieter than the Gore-tex. I wore my level 5 top and bottoms in just about every environment, from wet forests of Germany to the mountains of AK. Plus if you tear it in the field, you can just DX it.
Big Puff pants and jacket are also water repellant. The originals weren't.
Fleece doesn't block wind. No fleece does, unless it has a semi-permeable layer built into it. It is a thermal layer. You wear it under a shell in cold weather. For that, it's only equal is a thin puff jacket. But fleece keeps you warm when wet. Puff jackets do not.
CW Boots have liners so you can pull them out at night and shove them in your bag with you to dry them out and warm them up. Or stop and swap if they are soaked. However, they are meant for VERY cold weather. Also, you do NOT wear thick socks with those. The liner is the insulation. Wear normal socks. Those old issue 80lb boots are hot garbage. Not a single dude who had the option to wear something else actually wore those.
As far as layering, you start your patrol cold, so wear as little as necessary to not be hypothermic. Then carry a shell/and thermal layer that you can throw over you (with kit) for extended stops. If you gotta pick one, bring the rain shell, it serves double duty. If you need warmth too, throw in the fleece. It looks like it was made for pregnant FOBBITs because you are supposed to be able to throw it over other layers, or kit. In extreme cold, with no rain possible, I would just carry Puff in a compression sack. You mentioned a similar technique when you go camping.
The minimum temperature on the sleep sytem is WITH Big Puffy on (lvl 7s). Not just silkys and waffles.
The ECWCS is a badass system. In my time that spanned the mid 90s to 2021, it was the best gear the Army gave me. As a winter SF guy, I used it often. I still keep and use pieces of in my civ life. As S&S said, it is meant for extended use in CW, when you have long dismounted patrols, maybe with sleds, maybe with snow machines, maybe just your ruck. Its not really out and back from the FOB gear.
GREAT info, I retired back in 2013 and we froze our butts off. Glad to see they FINALLY came out with a good pair of gloves
The ninja suit is your friend. It may not be much insulation, but having a layer directly snug against the skin prevent feeling the draft. Wear it when outside under the fleece or in the sleeping bag.
He forgot the socks. In cold weather get thick loose wool sock. They absorb the sweat a lot better than synth, warmer and more comfortable than synth. They also tend to induce less sweat than synth. Simething about plastic against the skin that our bodies do not like.
When sleeping in wet gear, leave zippers open a bit.
The sweat will build up over night and you will wake up in a puddle especially in a Gortex bag.
I prefer a poncho over the Gortex bivy. In damp raining weather, ventilation is important to minimize condensation. Build a proper shelter with a poncho and just use the sleeping bags without a bivy unless it is pouring diwn rain.
Avoid the condensation inside a bivy ehich will get your sleeping bag wet.
Great video. Just got stationed in Fort Drum. I look forward to using my gear.
Did you get the giant mittens and bunny boots?
@@GruntProof mittens and big ass white boots.
I was in the Army in the mid 80's, Ft. Bliss, TX. High desert, scorching hot in summer, bitter freezing in the winter, complete with 2 feet of snow. We had NONE of that stuff. Crappy ass cotton blend long underwear (Yes, I swear to god cotton). I always wore my good expensive civilian long underwear. Luckily the gun system I was on was mounted on an APC chassis so I didn't have to carry anything. We were issued a feather filled Extreme Cold Weather bag. Weighed 10 pounds and packed to the size of a small trash can. OMG it was warm but you sure couldn't carry it. No Goretex. No bivy. Had the old rubber wet weather gear. Since it was the cold war we always trained for NBC, so we nearly always had on our chemical suits, which were quite warm in winter, die of heatstroke in summer. Those damn leather gloves with the wool liners were a joke, we had only the simple leather boots so I wore my nice civilian socks. Seems the Army has caught up, whether you get to use it or not still seems to be the issue. My time with the Army I knew was over when I was standing in formation, smugly wearing my wet weather top due to the very rare rain. Top looks out, says We are't in the field, take off that field gear! So I stood in the rain with my issued rain gear draped over my arm. Stupidity level off the chart. Thanks for your service, glad you seem to be ok, hope you ride it out to retirement and enjoy many years of it.
Thank you!!
The reason for the order in which you later, especially the sleep system, is all about loft. Insulation with down, or synthetic versions that are equally "puffy" rely on loft for insulation. If it gets squished down it loses insulative value. So you put the lighter bag inside the warmer one because the warmer one's loft is going to be doing the heavy lifting on keeping you warm
Man, I am really glad I came across this channel. I had to sub. Finding this channel made me fell like it feels when you run into an old friend after a long time, and you are genuinely glad to see them. I love your content, and some of it brings back a lot of memories. I think you are squared away, and I just keep watching them. Thank you for making them.
🍻
Cool stuff. Things have improved a lot in just the 15 years since I've been in. Of course I would have never got to touch any of this "snivel gear" as a paratrooper.
Living in Oregon I always carry the GoreTex pants and jacket in my truck. Surplus (new) price is a small per cent of its original cost and it's a great value. I've used the sleep system in November tent camping at about 6,000 feet. I'm older now so I have to wear fleece top and bottom with the thin thermals. But with the outside temperature below freezing I do ok. Just have to remember to not breath into the sleeping bag but wear a balaclava so my mouth is outside of the bag. Moist breath can make these bags damp and clammy due to the evaporation.
Your a young fella, my set up was fully woodland. We had gortex which is still the ultimate and woodland Rio stop. Our under layers were polypro we called them. One option of a wool sweater at the PX but it was restricted usually.
the level 5 softshell was supposed to be worn in colder (under 45 degrees) instead of the nylon blend clothing. it would dry quicker when soaked and dump excess heat while still protecting you from the harsh elements. so it's an inbetween of goretex hardshells and whatever everyday warm top. when you stop you were suppoed to done the level 7. if it was hard precip wear your goretex.
old school MOPP gear was warm in the winter time. FUN TRAVEL & ADVENTURE
Hello my outdoors friend, thank you for sharing this very informative video. I remember the cold weather at at Graffenwehr. This was back in the mid 60's. You have a ton of gear. The very best to for your good health and safety. Stay healthy. 🤗
Spent a lot of time in Grad and hohenfels
I have 3 poncho liners,1 in my car and the other 2 at home, you can’t have too many.
Stationed in Fort Wainwright, AK;
We used the soft-shell as our outer layer all winter. It cuts wind, it is not insulative. Goretex isn't insulative either, it just breathes terrible (and it DOES breath). You layer up your insulation under the soft-shell layer. -20F, mixed inside and outside work? Silk top and bottom, waffle top, soft shells, ECWCS boots since buying the good winter boots was way too damned expensive.
Parkas (puffy/marshmallow depending on where you are) only came out on things like static guard duty below -40F. Same with the mickey-mouse boots, though those aren't actually part of the ECWCS system IIRC.
See that's what sucked about regular Army, the retarded rules on snivel gear. I'm a southern MS boy, so I pulled out my puffy jacket all the time in the field.
@@GruntProof If we were static in the cold, we wore the heavy stuff. I actually did my first at-unit 240B qualification at -60ish in the puffy and those stupid trigger-finger mittens. And the gigantic over-mittens when I wasn't shooting. Marching and heavy activity relied on "'comfortably cool", as well as keeping extra layers to add either when what you were wearing soaked through, or you stopped working and needed the extra insulation. The fleece was my LIFELINE on those days, it adds a TON of lofting insulation under the shell layers without adding much bulk. BN layout? I could go from busting my ass unloading connexes to sitting there for an hour in the cold and not a single bit of brasss could say anything about the fleece as long as it was under the softshell.
Early 90's at Ft Wainwright Alaska. Light Infantry carrying 60MM Mortar. During winter Poly Pros, Gortex, Danners or Matterhorn Boots, and Beanie. In the field with snow shoes and skis VB Boots. Field Jacket liner and Woobie. Fresh socks when sleeping in bag with clothes and boots in the bag to keep warm.
Hes right about the fleece jacket wind cuts right through it. It's only good if it's a bit nippy and no wind.
You and Mr. Gruntproof are correct that fleece does not stop the wind. You need to wear a windbreaker jacket over it. Me, civilian, wears the good old M65 jacket. I own fleece long sleeve t-shirts under my shirts. Then fleece works well to keep you warm.
www.asmc.de/unterwaescheset-thermofleece-oliv-type-ii
Love goretex pants. Most useful piece of clothing in wet snow
I still rock my black polar-tech fleece, that fleece is warm and durable, it's gotta be close to 15 years old now and been to Iraq and back and all the zippers still work and no rips or any damage. The newer ACU green fleece and Tan were trash compared to the OG black one.
yes!
Wow this stuff is awesome. I was a Military Police Sergeant E-7 from 1971 to 1991 and after Viet Nam everything in uniforms began to change. I was issued the old white Mickey Boots several times over the years and other than weighing 150 pounds each they were great boots for staying warm even if your foot got wet but avoided water if possible. I have both Black and white Mickeys today but pushing 70 years old they are a bit heavy for everyday use. I loved those old Field jacket liners as well for just an added bit of warmth when warn without the field jacket. The next level of Parkas were okay but bulky and the musty smell always seemed to be there. The old black combat boots were good if you you didn't have to do PT in them and after that all we had were those stupid buckle up rubber boots which were a pain to get on anyways. I still have my original black combat boots that were issued to be at Fort Knox KY in Dec 1971. Thanks for your service young man and remember PTSD never goes away but there is help out there today which almost didn't exist in my time.
Yea they definitely improved everything in the 20 years of war! Guess what, soldiers still complain
I joined in 86. Back then I was stationed in Lewis at 2nd Batt. We were first issued j’ai Shits in wool. Poly pro m65 field pants and parks and liners. Then we also got the light weight woodland gortex tops and bottoms. Which we all wore and the first version of the ECWC parkas and pants. We would were this due to the nasty winter weather at Lewis, Yakama and if we trained in AK. We also had the gortex sleep system. Was really good stuff at the time. Until I left in 96 . The sleeping bag situation was shit. At Division we still only had the 1950 sleeping bag. Used it once at Robin Sage and once at a winter live fire range when Bragg was closed down. But us NCOs stayed out. They brought out or bags. I’ve owned and used the Carinthis Def4 and the Troupen bags. Warm but my large size stretches it and makes it not warm. So I got myself the three piece ECWS sleeping bag system in woodland. For camping. It’s bulky. But damn warm. It rates well. I’m waiting to see if the us army updates the sleeping system. I’ll buy it when they do.
21:36 wearing a larger warm jacket over the vest/armor is not a dumb thing to do - standing guard/post and it keeps you at good combat effectiveness. if you need to reload you open or in worst case rip open the jacket. Swedish Army SOP in the early 2000s were to either ditch the jacket/coat fully and win the fight, or have it open the entire time to access the ammo.
I actually did use my marshmallow top over my plate carrier once in Afghanny land. 6 hour watch in the rain. Worked well.
I have used this genIII gear in Alaska and it works great.... I think the coldest was -65.... it sucked having so much stuff on but it works great....
In my day we had field jack liners and Micky Mouse boots and we were greatful.
Great stuff!
Used to never consider those clunky goretex pants with the suspenders, but when my 1SG found a TM that showed different configurations for the system when we were in Ukraine, I tried it- definitely works! Worn instead of the regular uniform pants. Also sometimes added the old WW2 brown sweater into the mix- kind of felt equivalent to the waffle top. I will definitely try using the marshmallow top as sleeping gear, good advice!
Thanks! I just slept in the marshmallow suit overnight and was fairly cold. That was just above freezing. You will survive, but it definitely wasn't comfortable
Been using the marine version of this system in Wisconsin winters to do forestry tasks and camping/hunting for a week at a time.
Thanks for the explanation. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing just how wrong I was about this stuff, but no more!
As part of 2/30 IN 4/10 MTN, we got the experimental 1st Generation ECWCS. The 1st Gen wind jackets were a lot looser and didn't restrain your movement. We would wear the marshmellow suits on static guard, but never outside the wire. The fleece jackets looked like they were made by hobos, since we got the "rough drafts," but everyone loved them as either in-garrison windbreakers or as an additional layer over grid fleece. Gotta be careful with the marshmellow suits because we had problems with them tearing easily on sharp stuff.
Look at all those goodies, I used to love getting new issue, it was like Christmas everytime! Very cool, wish I had that back then.
I still like the Grandma pattern, I don't care what anyone says about it. Great video.
The gortex jacket (not the 2nd one) It's not a windbreaker it's to keep you dry over your snibble gear that does get wet.
I just discovered your channel a few days ago. You do a darned fine job. With plenty of winter camping and hunting experience, I say....you speak truth.
Thanks!
In the mid-80's, a lot of troops wore "Hawk" Jackets in W. Germany. This jacket was a rain jacket with either a wool army blanket of woobie sewn into the jacket as a liner. It was usually worn by itself or over the M65 field jacket while on FTX's or Graf trips. The local post tailor made/assembled them for a decent fee.
Cool
I got all that issued to me in 2006, when I was at Drum. I've never needed more than the silks & grid fleece. I tested my Michelin suit once...
I was sweating like hell in that thing.- inside of 30 seconds.
I learned in Basic that I didn't need much more than an extra t-shirt & PT shorts under my uniform, anyway.
😂😂😂
Fuck drum. 2/87 c-co
All the gear he went over with y'all is very expensive. I left the army and never turned in my cold weather gear and the government caught up with me and took what I did not turn in to my unit supply it came out of my taxes in long run . But hey I still own all my ECWS and then some . I'm glade I still own it paid. Some items like the polley pro and silk ninja underwear you keep anyway mine getting a tad tight these days as I was a 29 waist in service.
poly pros and waffles under fleece were a sweat box haha
@@thalanoth yea well Before the War with FOBs > i trained out in the field in the cold and we slept out in tents and on the ground for a month of training atv a time. I was a skinny grunt. so staying warm i warm when not patroling with heavy gear was tough for me. those polly pros Usually would rolled up in my back roll for those many cold occasions. we usaully didnt wear snibble gear because I for one overheated. we didnt have any modern gear and stayed out in elements many hours training from germany to Hood to Colorado to korea I frooze often. I was in 22 years and felt many a misrable day of being cold. I was around for 1st Gen ECWCS we never could wear them during movement but we picked and choose what to carry wrapped up or sometimes it was so cold you needed to wear at least upper. its a trade off, because sweat can turn to ice
Thank you brother keep making the good videos they are very helpful to me and I pass your information on to others
thanks!
Think this is quite fun to watch in sweden we use exactly the same gear no extra boots or anything, just add some extra shirts you will be fine
Great video mate.
Thanks for taking the time to film, edit and upload.
Marines have the OR gore tex Firebrand mitts and gloves. You used to be able to find these on ebay. I picked up 3 years ago.
You think the same as me. Infantryman no wonder. You can't go on a patrol or do physical exertion with layers of clothes even in freezing weather and not overheat; you can't take it off on the movement because you don't have no place to stuff it and your sweat will freeze after after you stop. It was hard on me being one of the smaller guys. I used to freeze my arse off. What I'd do was bring smallest compact snibble gear I could stuff in a pocket or a buck pack I loved to wear on the older LBE in 90s. Up to 2012 I'd stuff them with all the mission gear In my issued mole II assault pack. Or strap in to the side for quick access with bungee straps. Most infantryman (grunts) did the same thing depending we all froze in winter.
Maybe it's just me, but the fleece always felt warm for me
Its that zipper that runs the entire front vs the one that is a partial pull over with a zipper collar. You freeze your balls off in the full zipper front. Wind runs right through it.
@@BillyReed68 I never noticed much of a difference honestly. As long as I had the right thermals on underneath
@@tacticalministries3508 I've always used a 4 layer system. Under ware, base, mid and outer. If you can't get it done with that, well... you got the wrong gear.
We couldn't stop for more than 5 minutes in Sangin without attracting a suicide IED so you went out in what you deemed necessary and if the weather changed you just sucked it up!
Thanks Randall for making some sense of all the layers. I have a lot of this gear to use when hiking and camping. I’m a 63 year old fart from Saraland Alabama just north of Mobile. Not too far from your part of Mississippi. I love the fleece jacket for cool days but I’m certainly not using it in a tactical environment and I definitely see your points about it. Thanks again for your service and congratulations on your upcoming retirement. Hope to see you around the Gulf Coast sometime.
Cool thanks!
One thing they NEVER tell anyone with the sleeping bag ratings, is that there's always 2 ratings, the one with, and the one without the puss pad. If the rating is something really fucking awesome, it's almost ALWAYS WITH the puss pad... And Grunt Proof, love your videos man! Though you must be a Mike, because NONE of that shit would have EVER fit in our rucks. The only room we ever had in a ruck for personal items was for a few field stripped MREs, a few pair of socks, and a poncho & poncho liner, period. If it was super cold weather we had to use that extra molle bag that was made specifically to throw the full MSS in (already compressed in it's compression sack that is) and it hung below our rucks, and movement with that thing SUCKED ASS - a click an hour max lol. Dam I don't miss cold weather missions lol. The trick I learned while patrolling in cold weather (we don't wear body armor) was allllways use layers under your BDU tops that had full length zippers; this way I patrolled with all my shit unzipped/unbuttoned so the heat would leak out, then during a long security halt or other pauses like radio checks or flash traffic I would zip it all up then do what I had to do. This way I never soaked my clothes with sweat so I wouldn't freeze during the halts. :)
We Marines called the extreme cold weather parka the Happy jacket. We were issued our cold weather gear for Afghanistan 2012, much lower in elevation, like 3k feet so all I needed was our fleece which apparently is better than the one y'all are issued.
I used to timber cruise in the Rocky Mountains of British Columbia Canada. Some pretty extreme conditions. I now have a pretty ridiculous collection of cold weather gear. Used to go for a walk in -20 C when home from camp
Howling winds at -20 C and I would just laugh at mother nature. Having the right gear makes all the difference in the world. Not sure what the coldest I worked in, but -30 C would be just another day at the office.
Thank you for your service, from a Canadian.
Excellent video! Finally from somebody who knows what the hell their talking about, with actual experience. I’ve got the old Gen1 gortex woodland parka and pants, it works very good, keeps me warm and dry when running around in the woods in winter. Some times it’s too warm. And I totally agree, and I say it all the time, you can’t beat Military surplus gear, it’s bomb proof.
Thanks broseph! I still have my DCU Goretex and that's my favorite jacket when I'm over in CA
Hey man I really appreciate this video cuz I'm n the market for Gortex and sleep system. This helped me understand a bit more
The reason the thick sleeping bag is going on the inside of the thin one is:When you sleep you sweat. The moist is mowing outwards to the chell. If it below 0 degrees celsius it will freeze in the top layer and build up moist over time. It's better to lose insulation of the thin one than the thick one.
Cool. Thanks!
11-B....I've been out for 8 years and still wear that stuff....even the stuff they NEVER let us wear when I was in.
Reserve POG here.
Thank you so much.
Gratitude to the US military for providing us emergency cold weather clothing supplies perfect for high Himalayas.
From India
He is right about the Carinthia bags, (they also make terrific jackets that compress down and bivy bags) i use the defence 1, 4, 6 and tropen.
I have been using them here for years now.
I love my defence 4!
@@GruntProof Hi have you tried their HIG or MIG jackets and overpants ?
Not yet