Correction: I am JUBILATED to find out that Right Said Fred ARE actually credited on lwymmd! Go Taylor. One more on the plus side of this weird little parasocial tally we're all trying to keep up with ;)
Also she never sued Olivia rodrigo, Olivia said she wanted the bridge of deja vu to sound like cruel summer in an interview, Taylor’s team asked for credit and Olivia’s team gave it, no law suit. Still a shitty move.
@@diaz9rox yeah I think she added Paramore to Good For You after the interenet made the comparison - which to be fair does have a looot of similarities to misery business. But in the same conversation Elvis Costello said he didn't give s-- about Brutal sounding like his song, and that art inspires art! So I think olivia was just trying to save her ass just in case. But taylor and her camp shouldn't have asked imo
i nipped round the wicked streaming shop to have a listen to lwymmd. perhaps it is me being an old fogie, but it does not belong in the same galaxy as itsfms
in general i don't think it's right for artists to have to give credit and pay royalties over rhythmic and melodic similarities though. there's only so many notes and intervals in western music theory, leaving *so much* possibility of that being coincidental.
As an avid swifty, my biggest issue with her is the consumerism. The multitude of CDs/Vinyls she releases with each album (that are only different in colour/one track) really rubs me the wrong way. I heard someone say that it's people's decisions on what they spend their money on, but Taylor is very aware of the obsessive nature of her fans and how a lot of us with buy anything she puts out, so it feels a little exploitative, like "I know my fans will buy multiple copies of a £20 album so I'm going to make four different versions!"
@@lorenam8028 Yeah I understand that. I feel the urge a lot as well, and I have bought her CDs more as a collector's item than something that I use, but I think it's more so when you have a bunch of CDs or Vinyls that have the same songs, but they come in 4 different colours. It feels like a waste of resources to me and like she's only doing it for money - which I guess just shatters the thought, as a fan, that she's only doing it for the art which is unlikely when someone is that successful 😅
i dont think taylor is a match against the suits that own her, we know she fought them and her dad to openly be a lib, but thats different than convincing them to not sell stuff.
I don’t know why fans like to separate her music from her business from her “personality” when it’s clear from her documentary that everything we see from her is part of building her brand, that would be music, her feeding the parasocial relationships her fans have and her girl boss business decisions. It’s incredible how good at being a pop star she is, that she’s now become the most sympathetic billionaire. She’s clearly a brand, I think it’s a good exercise to critique our faves though
The argument "its not her, its her label/manager/etc" reminds me of an interview of Zendaya where shes telling a story of an photoshoot for a cover of a magazine. She didnt like her hair and make up and her publicists said "You should just be happy with it - they haven’t had a black girl on the cover since forever." And Z said her reaction to that was to fire the publicist. The celebrity has the power, especially someone as Taylor Swift, she has all the power you can possibly get
As a former BTS fan (I still think they’re great, just not a self-defined “fan”), I find the Swiftie fandom so familiar to kpop dynamics: foster a pseudo-personal relationship with fans and then milk them relentlessly. When this was done by Koreans, the media coverage always pointed this out - but I rarely see it mentioned in Swift coverage.
Are you talking about media coverage in English or in Korean? I'm wondering if the Korean news/media industry is more sensitive to the systems that underlie famous people
@sarahwatts7152 I meant western media - Korean/Japanese media seemed (from my narrow view) very aware & okay with the profit-driven nature of the industry.
You could boil down any artist/fan relationship to that if you're cynical enough. There's a world of difference between how kpop runs its business and how Taylor grew her fanbase, although I can understand how people can look at her in the present day and make assumptions. But when you look at the whole picture it's clear that she, at the bare minimum, genuinely gives a shit about her fans more than most. If Taylor's fanbase gets milked by anyone it's her label with their awful approach to merch (which is exactly like every other major label's awful approach to merch)--she had to give up control over her merch in order to own her music in 2019, the before and after difference in merch tactics is HUGE.
@@missmusic4951 So do many kpop artists. With bts specifically, their rise to popularity was somewhat of an anomaly in kpop and different to "how kpop (generally) runs its business" and it took years of growing their fanbase. Yes, there is a world of difference of how kpop works as an industry and Taylor Swift specifically, but there are also a lot of similarities in how they (currently, in the current day) work and interact with their fanbases. And I think pointing out these similarities (or rather, pointing out how different the media seems to treat them!) is very necessary in order to question what underlying biases might be at play here.
There are few people out there who I'd want to hear from on the subject of Taylor Swift, but Leena is definitely one of them 🎉 this is the video I needed but didn't even know 😂
Also here to say VERY THIS! I've had complicated feelings for a while, and so for someone who has a very "all or nothing" mindset, it's refreshing to know it can be nuanced.
I’m very much in favor of the notion that liking someone famous and also feeling conflicted about them is not only valid, but it’s pretty normal actually and means you’re paying attention. ❤
23:25 I get what you're going for in this section, and agree that we should raise awareness of how awful governments are with greenlighting new projects/regulating company's emissions. However, in my opinion, "she could be worse" and "she's not as bad as companies & countries" hold *no* water whatsoever as arguments.
I'm more concerned with people who pick and choose when these individual arguments apply. As someone else said, it makes more sense to compare her to individuals with similar power to her than to companies or countries.
Exactly. Comparatively better isn't objectively good. Wealthy people like her are the primary cause of climate change, period - as well as it being hypocritical that she once said she cared about climate change.
As an Aussie, want to mention the flight example with Swifties travelling wasn't great. She only did Eras tour dates in Sydney and Melbourne, causing so many domestic flights to go there. I know of people who flew from Sydney to Melbourne to see it cos they couldn't get tickets to it in their city. Also international flights from here are very expensive. So I just don't think its stands up as an argument from an international standpoint re: flights. But the fossil fuel plants is a very good point (rip our govt keeps approving them).
No tour dates in New Zealand really contributed to this! I heard of so many people flying for the tour. But yeah the fossil fuel projects is a great comparison to put things in perspective!
Here to say the same thing, I live in Singapore and was unable to get tickets to Eras here (and most of my local friends were too) because I was competing with 2+ million people across Asia. It was apparently estimated that 70% of attendees had flown in from surrounding countries! And some people from Singapore couldn't get tickets locally so they flew to Australia lol
I agree whole heartedly but I also think that travelling for concerts has maybe become the norm? Not that that's a good thing I mean I had to fly to see Taylor I would have much rather her have more tour dates around the country but I think many artists have issues planning tour dates around their availability, health schedules of places and the cost? I'd be really interested to have more insight on why artists are deciding to do multiple shows in one place instead of flying to more locations to understand it better. Like Coldplay only did shows in perth for climate change reasons but I really don't think that paid off as again many people travelled from over east to attend.
So glad you mentioned this! I live in Perth, which is a capital city that often misses out on concerts because of our distance from other capitals. I personally listen to a lot of smaller/less well known bands and artists due to my genre preferences , and I completely understand why they would struggle to afford to come to my area. But Taylor? I was surprised to see basically no annoyance or disappointment on social media from people I know who love her music. She could have managed to come to some more places surely? The Perth fans I know who travelled across our large country to see her expressed their absolute joy about the experience they had, which is wonderful, but no criticism of the additional cost and time they had to spend to have that experience. I don't know, I just found it odd I suppose!
I think comparing Swift's flights doesn't necessarily hold up when you compare her to countries or fossil fuel projects; she's an individual, and I think she should be compared to other individuals. It would be more useful to know what percentage of her trips could have feasibly been done in cars, trains, tour buses, etc, how many of her trips took less than an hour, how many were for personal reasons. I can understand that she wouldn't want to travel on commercial airliners as each trip would be substantially interrupted by fans, so there's a reasonability metric here. How many of these private plane trips are really warranted or reasonable? How does she compare to other musicians of the same caliber/popularity? This would be quite the undertaking to do (and sounds to me like the research for a masters or phd), but it would be comparing apples to apples, rather than apples to Tuvalu. (I also just finished rereading The Sex Lives of Cannibals, everyone should read it, it's a great time and happens to be about Tarawa, another of these pacific equatorial islands)
Here are the comparisons with her peers (i.e., celebrities): Despite the eras tour, she didn't even crack the top 30 for private jet carbon emissions in 2023. A study named her the #1 emitter for 2022 but was then revealed to actually have a methodological flaw. They assumed all flights emitted the same amount per km flown, which wasn't true. She uses a pretty efficient plane, and so with updated calculations, she was no longer in that spot. Thus, I think she became the poster child of this problem simply bc using her name leads to much more engagement than other celebs do.
I don't know this for sure, but I can't imagine super busy celebrities wanting to take plane flights that are hours long just for fun. And a manager is the one often booking the flights and scheduling things, not the celebrity.
Have you heard about the climate seniors from Switzerland? The European Court of Human Rights judged that their human rights had been violated by the Swiss government not doing enough to fight climate change. So at least we are moving in the direction of climate crime being a thing.
I believe the flying with privacy dilemma can be resolved by outlawing the ownership of private jets, make these rich people rent a private jet to fly, and they will fly less!
Kim Namjoon from BTS goes to work on a bicycle. A PUBLIC city bicycle, that he pays a yearly subscription to the city of Seoul to use. Taylor can get into a fucking car.
Great video. I used to be a HUGE swiftie and definitely fed into that parasocial relationship dynamic that I believe she enables. But after really looking at how she only speaks about social justice issues when it directly affects or benefits her something shifted for me. I began to view her as profiting off of a white and non-intersectional feminism which is something I could not look past. And then when she collaborated with Ice Spice after musty Healy made racist remarks about her that really did not sit with me right at all. It felt like a strategy to avoid accountability. So I stopped listening to her music and engaging with the swiftie fandom. However, I will always love her music. It got me through some really awful times and I won't deny that. I also won't deny that she is incredibly talented. I just can not (and don't wish to) separate the art from the artist.
One thing to add context to the cease and desist of Etsy sellers is that legally speaking you HAVE to defend your trademark or you lose it. The issue with this is that if she allows small, independent fans to sell items with her trademarks, she then doesn't have a leg to stand on when big fast fashion brands use her trademarks to sell shirts. This is an ongoing issue with trademark and copyright law where there is no easy way to license things to small creators without giving H&M and Amazon and Forever 21 the right to slap her trademarks on a shirt and both denying Taylor the money but also pushing small independent artists out of the market anyway. It's more a flaw with the legal system than a knock against Taylor imo
I absolutely loved the EXTREMELY inportant point 'people wouldnt be doing some things, if only they were not allowed.' We tend to get stuck with the opossite side (things that are illegal yet people do them, like dr*gs) but the reality is thay the vast vast majority of the population is NOT doing the illegal thing and particularly BIG figures (either in fame or richness) are more careful not only as a personal trait but also because they experience more scrutiny. It would be extremely effective if for example, a federal law made flights under 45 min restricted to medical emergencies only - surprise! Taylor, Elon, Kylie Jenner or whoever, they just wouldn't do it. Oh the gains!
17:46 except she’s a rich white girl, she’s more than protected if she ever said anything substantial. Also note the documentary is controlled by her so she’s just looking like she’s oh so torn about the struggle of being quiet. Frankly Taylor isn’t even a feminist she’s a Taylorist
it's giving billionaire apologist. "should we tell her how to live her life, no". people with her amount of money and influence, and therefore power to make significant change in the world (and this extends to all celebrity billionaires) absolutely should be held to account for their actions, for the amount they consume, the amount they fly, the sheer volume of crap merchandise and products they pump into the world. not questioning wealth accumulation like this is just free market liberalism at its worst. re carbon emissions: if swifties in the us earn on average under 50k, then how would fans be able to afford to fly to see her on top of the cost of an eras ticket if she didn't fly to other countries? the math ain't mathing. if she didn't fly to other countries, the average fan simply would not be able to afford to fly to see her (flight, hotel, concert ticket, time off work etc etc) and so wouldn't. she flies to other countries to perform for her own financial gain. you also don't have to be a qualified politician or climate scientist to have a valid opinion on climate change or politics in general. i wouldn't listen to half of the politicians in the uk about important issues because they are all power hungry lunatics.
(disclaimer that i love taylor’s music but have complicated feelings about being a fan and about her) appreciate you did bring nuance to this topic. the bit about “using private life for financial gain” seemed to debate an argument that isn’t (i don’t think?) there. i don’t think the concern is her creating art for financial gain. the issue is more playing into the speculation about her personal life sometimes. people like to forget she intentionally put easter egg codes in her liner notes that referred to her personal life. and far more recently she made those “denial / bargaining etc” playlists for her own songs, and it would be naive to suggest she didn’t know the kind of speculation that would lead to. it was an unnecessary move. so i’m not at all surprised swifties play those games when she’s made Easter Eggs such a thing in her work and encouraged that way of looking at her work. and she (ik ik among many others) plays on fans love by releasing variants, not just different artwork but to own specific songs. (there’s a chart that shows there’s still no one comprehensive midnights cd). which would have been an interesting thing to discuss in terms of capitalism and waste. anyway idk how much faith i have in swifties because honestly they usually seem so focused on defence at all costs that they refuse to hear any valid concerns or criticisms. so even if i’m a fan i’ve never really wanted to be associated with the fandom because the online presence puts such a bad taste in my mouth.
I really liked what you said. I’ve been a swiftie for over a decade and being part of the fandom has given me friends and joy. But recently it’s been a struggle to deal with some fans. Maybe it’s because I am 31 years old so I see Taylor as a person not a goddess that can do no wrong, therefore should be held responsible for her actions or lack there of when it comes to using her platform to bring awareness on global issues, for example. I’m with you on all the variants (something that many artists are doing now) - please just release the full album and let us enjoy it 😅
She did the liner note thing from her teen years into her early twenties, when she was a young and admittedly more self-righteous, but she hasn't done it since. And the denial/bargaining playlists was a response to a fan theory that the album had something to do with the five stages of grief, and even though the theory was wrong she still took inspiration from it and made the playlists as a way to talk about the album and engage with what fans were talking about. It's a bit impossible to talk about your art without indicating your personal life when your art is *about* your personal life, and I think she's long since grown up and found a pretty good balance in what she chooses to reveal and what she keeps private. She doesn't have control over merch or variants, and hasn't since 2019. Her merch situation before then was markedly better before her label got control. Vinyl variants etc does bring up a good convo about waste, but to lay it at Taylor's feet when every label pulls the same crap isn't totally fair. Having watched the situation for years, it definitely seems like the label says "hey we're gonna do vinyl variants for the album" and at best Taylor gets input on what they look like. In this day and age I'm kinda stunned putting exclusive songs on each variant even works considering it'll all be posted online about five seconds after people get their hands on them. In general she's always tried to strike the right balance between treating fans well and navigating the capitalist hellscape in what ways she can
On the topic of Taylor being nice, I wanted to adress her behavior in Brazil. I'm from Brazil and went to two of the shows in São Paulo. In the first show in Rio (a week before mine) a girl died and the only acknowledgement that Taylor made was singing Bigger Than the Whole Sky. She didn't even say the girl's name, so if you didn't know what happened you would just think it's a regular surprise song. Yes, it wasn't her fault that the stadium organizers were greed dickheads and provided terrible first aid. But it felt like a slap in the face for many Brazilians that Taylor who is known for being loving of her fans wouldn't say or do anything. And the biggest pop star in the world couldn't press the organizers to have a better structure? We have also seen pictures of Taylor's mom with girls that passed out on shows in the US and was there to give them a ticket for the next day. But when a Brazilian girl dies, her family has to open a crowd funding to pay for the body to be taken home? Sure, on the last day of tour in Brazil the family posted a photo backstage and with Taylor. A cousin of the girl later said that Taylor's team told them they can't say anything about the help she gave them. So, it sits very weird with me that someone so beloved by her public show of affection to fans carry out this tragic event like she did. It does make us feel like that our lives are worth less than an american's life. Not to metion the atrocious things American/European swifties say about Taylor's security when she comes to Latin America.
She made a post on instagram when it happened expressing her grief and condolences, and she specifically mentioned in the post that she wouldn't be capable of talking about it on stage. She essentially wept through Bigger than the Whole Sky and didn't just snap out of it when the song was over, either. After everything she's done for fans for almost twenty years I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt, and you said yourself the family isn't allowed to talk about how Taylor helped them, meaning that she did help but we can't know the details for whatever reason. Again, a little benefit of the doubt goes a long way.
I was so disappointed too. I went to the first show in Rio. Since then I can't look at the photos or videos I took there, I don't feel good when I listen to her songs. A girl died while we were singing Cruel Summer. Taylor posted that she died before the show: she did not, she died during the show. She never mentioned or posted her name. It took her a long time to offer help. We don't know how she really felt, but the way she handled it was cold in my opinion.
Is it possible she doesn’t want to be too generous (or for it to be publicly known) in case people try to take advantage? E.g. by purposely harming themselves or family at a show so they can meet her or get compensation
@@vithoriaferreira4718 - We don't know how long it took for her to offer help, we know how long it was before the help became *public.* Things happen in private, especially when there's a potential legal mess with something like a stadium. But we do know that Taylor helped, she released a statement, she played a song as tribute, etc. We know she cares, it's not on her to adequately perform her grief and help for the public as much as it's on us to trust her for half a second.
She also signed a deal to not play in other SE Asian countries in exchange for money she doesn't even need. Thus screwing over fans in those countries. She is very much a white feminist, too.
I think even if she spoke up we might not like what she says. I think to get to that level of popularity one has to have wide appeal and like the royal family she won't say anything that would move her out of that position. She would have to then sacrifice something I think she wouldn't ever be willing to. I don't think anyone can accumulate that much wealth without wage theft and exploitation and/or not paying a suitable amount of tax. But I'm just not a swiftie and I'm apathetic to most celebrities which makes me outside the norm and I can appreciate her being a good artist and also not think too much about her as a person.
I guess because you're not her fan that fine but if I'm a fan of an artist and have a place in his wealth by buying his art i would prefer to know a little bit about the value of this person. I personnaly usually don't seperate the art of the artist. For example an extreme case but i would absolutely not giving money to a predator by supporting his art.
@@MinieAnne I would tend to agree. More that she has a vested interest in maintaining mass appeal so likely won't reveal much about herself that would jeopardise that or would lose her money. So like her sending the cease and desist letter to the guy tracking her private jet, I imagine anything she says publicly will be carefully curated. Her true values will be very difficult to discover
Taylor is known for paying her employees incredibly well and taking care of them. She's the only billionaire artist who got there from just music saless, touring, and the value of her catalogue without a side hustle like a clothing brand or something else easily exploitable, for whatever it's worth.
I think there are four ways to billionaire wealth: innovation, scam, exploitation and extreme luck. With artists who have a dedicated fandom it's mostly scam. Somehow the fans are made to believe that they need to spend all that money to make their idol a "rich queen/king" instead of spending it on stuff that spreads the wealth more equally. Touring helps with that though because a lot of money goes into travel/tourism & food.
Whilst I see what you're saying about carbon production, isn't saying that her's aren't really that important on the grand scheme of things also applicable to us? Of we're not going to focus on her carbon emissions then why bother about our own? (I don't think we shouldn't bother about our own btw but I'm curious about the logic)
It's the same logic that applies to any other eco-conscious choice. Like, buying fast fashion is generally more acceptable if you're low income than high income, with the implication being that higher income people have more wiggle room in their budgets to support better brands. It's not the same thing if you're flying once every year or two to compare to short celebrity flights that could pretty easily and safely be drives sometimes.
@@Victori.A1It's wild that you're so indoctrinated into the idea that money is the be all and end all of modern life that you are literally incapable of understanding that not everyone wants to be a billionaire.
I just started the video but I hope you at least briefly mentioned that time Taylor made Victoria Secret fire one of their Angels for simply answering an interview question honestly, not even in a hateful tone. (She was asked if Taylor could be a VS Angel and she said something along the lines of "it takes more than just height and beauty to be a model")
Thank god someone else has made the Taylor Swift - Princess Diana comparison!!!!! I've been saying this to people because of how unhinged people are about her and how the attention seems genuinely dangerous sometimes. (Mass fans descending on a wedding she was at reminded me so much of paparazzi chasing Diana on bikes). Whenever I bring it up, people act like I'm crazy for saying it and I truly worry we are never going to learn our lessons from history.
Yeah thank you I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the parallels- whether the feeling is positive or negative, just that volume of emotion directed at one person has historically lead to disaster.
@@leenanorms And TS is doing it in the era of social media, which Diana didn't. Does that make it better or worse? We feel like we have behind the scenes, personal, insider access with social media, so does that let some of the pressure off by demystifying her and robbing traditional media of impetus, or does it just feed the beast? She's a one woman global experiment with no idea of where all this is leading and that's pretty scary.
Diana was someone who was abused and ultimately assasinated and spent her entire life doing charity and helping others. Swift is a white payola baby. Please do not compare the two
@@aidanthejester345This, so much. Have been genuinely worried about the spiraling and the multitudes of possible dangerous outcomes. Too many historical instances to list where similar deadly disasters resulted from this psychological phenomenon.
I want Taylor Swift to speak up precisely because I don't know how she feels so that if she has beliefs I feel are truly heinous, I can stop giving her any of my time, attention, or money. I want people with influence to not be able to hide behind polite neutrality while commanding our attention, and especially in cases of artists, I don't want to consume or encourage the art of those I find politically vehement.
She's already made her political stances known. She's a pro-queer, pro-abortion, pro-human rights, anti-racist, feminist Democrat, and all of that is available to find online. She's not going to comment on every big news story because if she started commenting on the important things she would be expected to comment on *everything,* and people have been jumping down her throat about every single word she utters for over a decade now. When you can't even say hello without all of Twitter melting down about what you should have said instead, it's no surprise that she's made her general stances known yet keeps her mouth shut most of the time. (Also, at this point she's so huge that literally anything she says makes headlines. If she spoke up regularly the entire internet would be constantly reporting it and she'd be even more overexposed than she already is.)
This is exactly how I feel as well - in a way I feel as though my choice is being taken away to choose who I support with my money. We can trace back most businesses by where they spend their monies and use our purchasing power to support or not support their ideologies, we cannot do the same with a person without them speaking out. Recent genocide really opened my eyes with a lot of people and I wish I could know her stance.
I may have mentioned this in another comment, but when we heard that Taylor is now a billionaire, my husband got sad and was like, "I think I like her a little less now." So he chooses not to think about it. Lol. I think it's funny that you mention the sheer amount of brain power Swifties use to figure things out, it reminds me of this post that was like, "How long do you think it would take the Swifties to solve who the Zodiac Killer is if it meant they get a new song? I say about 5-7 business days." And I always think about that. Just lives rent free in my brain because the person was not wrong.
@@nodrvgs (to me) the person is saying that Swifties pick and choose what they pay attention to regarding their fave. they will pour days-worth of their focus into uncracking the codes taylor gives them through her music, but when it comes to her billionaire status (it's outrageous that anyone on this planet is a billionaire) they don't give a shit lmao.
@@nodrvgs He was an American serial killer that taunted the police and has technically never been caught. It's considered one of those impossible cases to solve.
Speaking of carbon offsets - they are mostly a scam, or they don't actually work. Sad but true. (For example: companies buy a patch of green land and they "protect it" from being cut down as a carbon offset for the company, but in reality that specific land was already protected (by the government or sth) anyway, and the whole transaction for just for show to make the company look better)
It depends on who you're buying them from. None of them are The Answer to climate change on their own, but some are more useful than others. Some do things like just plant a bunch of tree seedlings but then not even continue caring for those trees afterward to ensure that they don't all die, which does next to nothing. I get my own carbon offsets from Go Climate. They fund a lot of different projects around the world with renewable energy production, landfill gas capture, efficient cookstoves, etc., things that actually help somewhat. So yeah, it's really important when buying offsets to look at what they're actually using the money for so you're not completely throwing your money away.
And it’s really just a bandage solution anyway. It’s stupid to praise someone for buying carbon offsets instead of just expecting better of them to begin with.
To the point that there are other (richer) billionaires: yes, but i think she's the only/most prominent one to have such devoted fans and be somewhat relatable. That's why I think there's such a debate around her and what she does. With most other billionaires i guess we can just agree that they suck and move on
8:27 Taylor *does* credit them in LWYMMD. And for Deja Vu, I don't think it ever got to the point of a lawsuit, Taylor's legal team asked for credits, and Olivia's team gave them. As Olivia said 'I don't think I'd personally ever do that.' I think that a small amount of credit for similarities is fair, but 50% royalities for one similarity in the bridge is insane, and Taylor should've talked down her people to something like 10%.
another thing about the Olivia credit is, Olivia was a Taylor DIE HARD. really explicitly. so whilst we can’t ever know what went down cause neither of them will say, i feel like the behind the scenes can’t have been great if it caused Olivia to now be avoiding all mention of Taylor/ being a fan 😕
There's a lot of misunderstanding about this situation bc it seems like Taylor and her team were surprised when they got credit, at least Jack was. Based on all the info I've seen around it it seems like Olivia's team took the initiative to credit Taylor and other artists as a precaution after fans online started pointing out similarities in many of her songs on SOUR to other artists (Miley was another for ex). However, you can definitely say that Taylor and her team could have refused the credit, but that's another argument.
@@brodyhobart251 correct me if i’m wrong but cruel summer / deja vu isn’t about melody similarity but cause they both do a shouty thing vocally for the bridge?
Generally I agree with everything you said about celebrities speaking about poIitical issues but I also think when you refuse to acknowledge and stay silent about something, that that is saying something as well. I think when there are things as big as the genocide happening in Palestine, when you stay silent, and stay silent for this long, it speaks volumes as to where you stand and what you value.
Agreed. Because being "apolitical" isn't actually a thing. It's a privilege of people who's existance is the norm, isn't threatened. Minorities ans/or threatened groups simply don't have this privilege.
I don't listen to Taylor Swift and I don't really know anything about her personal life, but I think she's a mastermind for the fact that literally no one can pinpoint whether she's a good or bad person. She's purposefully neutral because that's the most marketable place to be. And for that reason, I don't trust that she's the type of goddess that her fans see her as.
You just put my uneasy feelings about her perfectly into words. I feel like she’s always had a very calculated “nice, neutral, and relatable” persona but I see certain things that don’t align with that. Add in the complete inaction where it really counts (and doesn’t publicly benefit her in some way) and it just makes me wary.
Exactly. I don't mind her music at all (some of it, anyway), but I don't like Swifties, and I don't really trust her? (But then you'd have to be kind of an idiot to blindly trust a celebrity). She's still playing the role of the sweet, innocent, naive, cutesy girl-next-door... and for me, that doesn't really wash when you're over 30 years old, the biggest artist on the planet, and a billionaire. Her fans just mollycoddle her and it's pretty disturbing to me. She's not Disney princess, she's a marketing genius, and I respect the hustle. But people need to wake up.
Apologies for the incoming novel, I tried to edit and failed. Totally agree that what Taylor does with her money is more important than what she says her politics are. As a self- labeled feminist, she could be using her resources to more permanently help people in her community (at least) in the long term. Or, if she's unsure what needs to happen to support feminist political causes, she can ask feminist scholars and leaders and pour her money into that. That would be the feminist thing to do. She calls herself one, but leaves the actual politics of feminism behind, utilizing the label for marketing only. bell hooks calls out reformist "feminists" like Taylor and their white, classist feminism out in her books. Also, I know people are past caring about COVID, but as a previously healthy young person disabled by it, Taylor could have made an effort to protect her fans (and everyone they know) during her tour. So many people got covid at her events, meanwhile backstage there were covid precautions to protect her vulnerable mother. It's giving "sickness for thee, not for me". Swifties would've masked up to see her in person. Covid surged massively during her tour, and I can't help but see the connection and think of all the people who were disabled due to it. Feminism (intersectionally, at least) is supposed to consider ableism as well. She shouldn't take on the label of feminism if she's not going to follow through in any meaningful way.
I don't think masking at the concerts could have been effectively enforced, to be honest. Yeah, you can make people wear them to get in the doors, but you can't realistically monitor and enforce whether an entire stadium of people is masking throughout a three hour concert. The best protection at this point is vaccination and early treatment, same as many other respiratory infections.
@@thatjillgirl unfortunately vaccination rates are dropping and only have around a 50% efficacy. And they don’t prevent long covid. Also, you’re not wrong that enforcement would be nearly impossible but her asking/expecting fans to keep each other safe would likely lead to much more masking than what happened without any policy/expectations. She has a lot of influence over her fans, and if she offered eras branded respirators to each ticket holder which would be easy to provide within the cost of the tickets (imagine all the different ones for different eras?) I think it could have greatly decreased the spread. Anything is better than nothing. Also no Covid precautions aren’t a complaint I have about just Taylor, but it’s something I think about more with her considering how it aligns with her previous political statements.
Taylor Swift is a performer! If she donates to certain causes people should be happy she does that. It seems, from what I read. any organization that she supports. seems like they think she should married to it and if she doesn’t act like that, she’s just used them! It’s absurd! TS doesn’t need to use any organization or show support for any organization for any reason other than the fact she wanted to ! People were making ridiculous demands of her when she started her tour. Actually telling a 34 year old woman she needed to be promoting the LBGTQ community more in her concerts! Some of her fans, some Swifties , writing an ope. letter to her regarding the Matty Healy deal telling her what they expected of her and what she needed to do to accomplish that was whacko! Some journalist demanding and saying it’s her responsibility to talk more on LBGTQ issues at her concerts, People are completely off their rocker demanding things of the biggest pop star in the planet during her TOUR! People buy tickets to see her perform and sing. That’s it!!! Do people realize how many different organizations are out there that her fans are involved in. If she started to cater to just specific groups she would soon be bombarded with who knows how many request to also help their organizations. We would be here for who knows how long trying to list all the different types of NGO’s out their people are involved in. The LBGTQ fans saying she hit more popular off the backs of the LBGTQ community!! News flash…. TS was already huge before she ever started being verbal about anything . TS already had one of the most diverse team from dancers, truck drivers in her crew period years before she became verbal about anything !!! It’s her responsibility and her mother’s responsibility, to do what they have to because she is in the high risk category! It’s everyone else’s responsibility to do the same and make their personal decisions accordingly just like it should have been from the beginning of Covid. Not lock down everyone who wasn’t high risk!!! There’s different levels of feminism! Maybe all involved in feminism aren’t extreme feminists that this Bell Hooks is. So if you believe in aspects of feminism you have d to be extreme. Ic you are t you are a reformist feminist? White Classic Feminism? What does being white have to do with it? Sounds like Bell Hooks is an extreme activist who drags race into labeling people if they aren’t t acting like she thinks they should. People need to get a grip!!!
In terms of Taylor Swift speaking out about current events/human rights/world conflicts, etc: I've heard a lot of discourse specifically around silence being just as dangerous as opinion. So by saying nothing, she is complicit, she DOES hold these beliefs. Even IF, say, she's pro choice. If she said nothing, it's as good as being pro life. Regardless of how much we don't like it, her fans look to her for guidance. If a fan looks at Taylor and sees that she is staying silent about an issue they're questioning (or even playing her film in a country that is committing war crimes *cough cough*) what does that tell them? She's making a clear choice. I agree that it's best if she keeps the worst thoughts to herself, but regardless of what she does, as a public figure and a powerful white person, she has a huge impact.
Largely I agree with you and I think that staying silent on things is a privileged choice that is actively made. As a counter point, she also has the potential and power to effectively dump a ton of grease onto a burning school if she is misinformed or wrong about something. At her level of influence, I think staying quiet about things you don’t understand at that point is the most responsible thing you can do.
@@Dancinglemon I see what you mean but staying quiet about things you don't understand should not be a permanent solution when you have all the resources to educate yourself and immense influence over millions.
when the eras tour was in brazil, there was a heat wave and a fan of hers died during her concert. people were not allowed to bring any water, even when the temperature was really high. there was another concert settled in the same city the next day, and she postponed the concert only one hour before it was supposed to start. the girl's family didn't get any financial support from taylor - they even had to ask for money from other fans to bring their daughter's body to her home city. she was 23 :(
I don't want to discount her responsibility for what happened in Brazil. Regardless of the venues responsibilty her business should and does hold the overall responsibility for the loss of Benevides Machado's life, but from what I have read she did donate and reach out to and met the family. No clue how much see donated, but it seems clear that she did I don't even mean this as a defence for Taylor, and it doesn't say anything about her morals or her as a person (it would be very bad press if she did nothing and her/her brand are smarter than that) but there was a level of action. It can never be enough, but something did happen
A video that makes me proud to be part of the Gumption Club. Ever since Leena said "I wish Taylor Swift was a band" (in either a video or podcast, I don't remember), I've been thinking about that. I think that's the sentiment that best summarizes how I feel. Band names give you an easy and quick indicator to separate musicians' bodies of musical work and public facing actions from the individual people walking around and living lives that we don't actually know much about.
One of my frustrations about Taylor Swift is the whole backlash against "being a pick me girl". Like sure, "I'm not like other girls" is maybe not the healthiest mindset to have, but this backlash is just steamrolling over all the girls who have actively been hurt by other girls (who are hurt themselves by patriarcal standards but also have a part in enforcing those standards against others). Anyways, I find all the Taylor Swift stuff overwhelmingly white and not particularly appealing, personally, and while I think it's find and great if others find meaning it it, it's frustrating when there's a climate where someone can't even say they don't like a certain billionaire musician without being accused of being a "pick me" and of hating teenage girls and their interests. It's like choice feminism and eyeliner sharp enough to kill a man and if you criticise makeup well that just means you're ugly and your eyebrows aren't done, all over again.
It‘s completely normal that not everybody will like certain things. Although Swift has many international fans. She writes from her own perspective most of the time (and she’s white of course ). But many people only criticise her (but not other billionaires), probably because she has such a big fanbase
It depends on how you’re stating your opinion. There is a difference between politely saying her music just doesn’t work for you personally and going out of your way to “yuck someone’s yum.”
@@mikaylaeager7942 True, but I also feel like there's a difference between being critical of an artist and "yucking someone's yum". You wouldn't be attacked for saying, idk, that Balzac just goes on and on to the point of boredom and maybe shouldn't have been paid for his writing by word count. Like if I said that no one would say I'm yucking Balzac's fan's yums. But I feel like we should be able to go beyond "it doesn't work for me personally", and still be allowed to have critical opinions? Like for example a thing I saw recently, people should be able to say that tortured poets department is clunky phrasing and sounds like a knock off dead poet's society, without it being taken as a personal attack, for instance? idk if that makes sense?
@@Blue-pb7kz The question you have to ask yourself is ‘Does it need to be said here and now?’ Would you say that to someone who is talking about how much they love Balzac with no context? No, you might say “I’m not really a fan of Balzac” and then they might ask you “oh really why?” Then you would explain, or they might say “oh I know he’s not for everyone but I love him so much.” That would be your queue to either let them express their joy or change the subject. You don’t need to express your opinion to everyone every time. Sometimes it’s appropriate and sometimes it’s not. I personally get this a lot as a fan of Marvel (mostly the comics but also the movies.) It’s something I like to talk about but people frequently feel the need to immediately tell me why they don’t like it. It’s always the same reasons too. “It’s juvenile” “it’s unoriginal” “it’s a soulless franchise responsible for the death of cinema and culture as we know it.” Ok… We can move on to something else, that’s fine. I don’t need to hear about how much you hate what I enjoy. I was a little brat once when someone did that to me and then gave me an example of “real cinema” (Lord of the Rings) and I tore into all the ways LotR was juvenile and unoriginal even though I totally agree the LotR is a masterpiece of our generation. I was just really tired of being told I’m an idiot for enjoying something.
People stay quiet about many things because they made themselves dependent on others liking them and being part of the herd at almost any cost, and also due to their own internal need for validation, vanity and similar. There are so many more options for women then there ever were in the past but what do most of them do a whole lot of? - Obsessing over their image and pop stars and drowning in consumerism (fast fashion, fast make up, fast home goods etc).
for me i want ppl to speak up about a certain topic because i want to know weather or not i would still fell comfortable supporting them. i can’t separate art from artist cause i don’t think it’s possible in a world where we vote with our money, every day, by choosing who to make richer. reason why i feel very uncomfortable currently listening to her music cause she hasn’t spoken up about palestine. which makes me angry and disappointed. cause there are cases where money make a big fucking difference and choosing not to use them for good sends a clear message. ironically, she has so much money and fame that she has nothing to lose. ppl will support her no matter what she says or do.
i don’t want everyone to be a “politician”, an expert in global politics, an environmental activist. i just want them to care and realize that their actions have an impact (esp with that level of fame). literally begging them to care. and honestly that’s a low fucking bar.
@@jessm96297 did u not see the part where i say that the money and fame those ppl have would actually make a big fucking difference? don’t put words into my mouth. also, if they don’t speak up then they don’t care, if they don’t care about a genocide then i’d rather give my money to someone else
Has she ever spoken up about international issues? And does she have a lot of fans in the Middle East? Especially in Israel? To me she mainly seems to have political influence in the US. And ain't nobody is suddenly going to vote for Voldemort just because she didn't speak up about Palestine. But I've heard the right-wing media is already framing her in some kind of conspiracy story. So, I think she doesn't want to risk anything in that kind of situation. And I doubt that she's well enough informed to feel like she has to speak up about it. That kind of news consumption is bad for people's mental health.
@@nehalilisays it would be really sad if she needed to have fans somewhere to care about the ppl there. and in this case, you dont need to know years of history to know that what's going on is horrible beyond words. you just need a little compassion. you see the numbers and you should realize that carpet bombing a populated area and every hospital is bad. lastly, yes it's hard on mental health to see the news but you know whats harder? being killed or tortured.
Want to push back on some of your point about her being nice in terms of hanging out with fans and inviting them to her house. Does a celebrity owe that to her fans? Is not being an asshole enough or, to be a "nice celebrity," do those celebrities have to go above and beyond with those fan interactions? When are boundaries crossed? It all depends
18:31 I think celebrity worship needs to end before we're ready to hear them discuss politics or if they do talk politics, people will blindly listen to them.
Just here to say that I’m too Sexy is actually credited on Look What you made me do co-writers, I remember reading or watching a video of them thanking her because it made them so much money lol.
yes, there were lawyers from both teams involved in determining the royalties. the difference though for Olivia is that Right said fred came out and give good PR to acknowledge Taylor. Taylor never did that for Olivia and let the media ran with she’s a copier.
@@vgolf10@vgolf10 Probably bc Taylor gave credit right from the start, whereas Olivia and her team did so retroactively for multiple songs on SOUR (credit was given to Taylor, Paramore, and Miley, I believe, and all was done retroactively, after online discourse has started about the similarities.
@@theoriginal4ever7 that’s a fair point on the credit was give in retro, after release. There is no credit given to Miley, no songs sound like hers. only one song retro to Taylor for deja Vu, and only one song retro to Paramore for good 4 u. Still though, LWYMMD is much closer interpolation to I’m too sexy then deja vu is to Cruel summer - it’s just vocal delivery similarity. good 4 u does sound closer to Misery business tho in chord and melody.
"Yes, and" regarding flying: what I really want to see is a change in aerospace and our laws to push for the development, production, AND use of greener fuels and planes.
Really great video Leena! You made a great point that if she tours more cities, fewer people will make flights far from their hometown. The Swiftologist on youtube also made an excellent video about her billionaire status - pointing out the lack of philanthropic efforts, especially in the issues she publicly cares about (ex. Scholarships for young independent artists, Abortion funds, etc)
There is research about the "being part of a crowd" benefit. Basically one of the things that make people most happy and content is collective joy and collective sorrow. Mourning ceremonies, sports, fandom are all examples where we feel our togetherness our not aloneness and it helps our monkey brains feel safe and good. I also think this is why religion is so powerful for many people. Built in community and support and collective sharing of pains and pleasures.
Hi leena! Richard and Fred Fairbrass and Rob Manzoli are all credited as writers on lwymmd, I think it was all an intentional, fully above board as an interpolation from the get go (no back tracking or in retrospect crediting) but I'm still on the fence about her sueing Olivia, there's speculation credit was given voluntarily in a panic, jack antonoff said it came as a surprise to him, but that doesn't mean it didn't still come from taylor herself behind the scenes, so who really knows. Hayley Williams also was surprised about getting credit for the misery business inspo, but the cowriter josh farro was on a podcast/radio show kinda bragging about it, so perhaps he initiated, and the cruel summer credit followed as a precaution? I fear we'll never know, but the radio silence from Olivia ever since is certainly something which is sad 😔
WOoo that's actually a relief to hear, I had no idea, don't know how I missed that! Yes, agreed, I do think it was after some pressure, I've linked a video in the description breaking it down x
@@leenanorms you also missed that there's no evidence that taylor sued olivia like not to attack you but many of the taylor 'crimes' you were assessing weren't actually substantiated by anything other than narrative by people who don't like her
I think it's important to note that we don't know whether Taylor knew about or initiated the Olivia credits. It's really easy to feel strongly about it one way or the other, but we just don't know. I will say that Taylor making a point of looking really into/supportive of Olivia's grammy performance is meaningful though. It doesn't look like either camp wants a feud.
@@nk0314 That's so true. For instance, Taylor only sent the cease-and-desist letter to the college student tracking her flights after she sold her second plane, and the account was still tracking it as if it were her. I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners asked her to take care of this.
Leena, this is the first time I'm seeing your content and I'm so happy I've found it! This was such a well-thought-out video that acknowledged the nuances of these issues. I'm so curious to see what else you have to say!
I generally agree with most of what you've said here. The one thing I will say is that she sent legal stuff to that twitter account right after someone was arrested multiple times in a row for stalking her and got pretty close to her to my understanding. I think it's fair to have a twitter account that tracks her jet usage/etc, but I do not think they should be publicizing her location. I know it's publicly available information, but there's no need to further publicize locations, and I'm sure it's pretty terrifying to have someone sharing your location widely when you have dangerous and persistent stalkers. Some people say in response that she has tons of security and tons of money and she'll be fine. And yes, she probably will, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend no celebrity with security and money has ever been physically attacked or k*lled by a stalker. TL;DR: Track people's emissions if you want, but don't publicize their location if you can help it, especially if it's known they have stalkers.
from "dear reader" i interpret: she will never be our queer icon or the political activist we want her to be, she will never give up the safety of hiding in plain sight. or not for a long time. we readers may find meaning in and behind the words she writes, but we shouldn't use her as our "guiding light" because she can never be fully and truly herself in the public eye, nor can she be the beacon we look to
"you wouldn't take my word for it if you knew who was talking": she has so much guilt and shame and fear around who she is, what she does, the secrets she keeps. and we know how carefully she constructs her public persona, we know she's a people pleaser to death. speaking up about her beliefs or living authentically (not just in loving cats and being generally nice) would expose her to even more scrutiny and criticism. anything taylor does always presents her in a way, and i don't think she would ever put herself in the line of fire at the cost of her self-worth. so she hides in ambiguity and certainty. she can have the conservative moms AND the queer kids, so long as she doesn't pick a side, so long as she doesn't throw her innermost secrets and insecurities and shame to the wolves. she won't ever try to aim at the devil anymore, because there is always the chance that she'll miss. she will always miss to someone. and it's sad but i've found my peace with it. i try to not put her on a pedestal anymore and i try to fight my own battles. i will still be her reader, but she won't be my guiding light. i can be my own
@@luabeth7520I think you make a really good point and so did Leena in the video. She’s well within her right to not be outspoken on things, I think the fact she plays the centre on a lot of the stuff gives her that universal commercial appeal (and why I’m not a fan of hers) but as was said, we don’t actually know her or what she believes. We aren’t her friends, we know what’s put out there and the parasocial relationship that people have with her but nothing about HER. I’m willing to give her some grace for seemingly being a decent person and I imagine at her astronomical level of fame, speaking out about some topics could do so much more harm than good.
@@DancinglemonI personally don't think that people should have an inherent right to profit off the suffering of others and then decline to even comment on that suffering.
I get where you are coming from when you say she didn't have a huge impact on politics even when she spoke out and encouraged people to vote. But as we know, Swifties are very dedicated to her. They find the easter eggs and read into everything she says. Its all fun and games- however...as an ethical person, she should be speaking out against things that are wrong in politics or in the world. We have a Gen0cide that is being committed right in our faces. And honestly, Ive loved Taylor Swift for years but it is so disheartening to know she hasnt said a word about it. People do listen to her. She has so many young fans and some fans that might not know whats happening overseas/what the USA is funding. Imagine if she condemned the killing of innocent people.....is that really so controversial? and you might be thinking "Oh people know that"-- no they don't. The government is literally trying to shut TikTok down because of how many people are getting educated on whats happening in Palestine. So why can't she use her influence to LITERALLY save people? Is it her job to save people? No. but will it cost her anything to save them? maybe some sponsors, but as a billionaire, does that matter?
I have been a massive Swiftie for ten years and I love this! I would be fascinated to hear your thoughts on Taylor vs. the public eye now TTPD is out. Other thoughts: - Her parents are investment bankers. While the capitalism is the thing I feel worst about, it feels sometimes like She Was Always Going To Be This Way, because her family influenced her to equate money as success. - The cease and desist she sent about her jet useage was for instant-tracking. Her publicist put out a statement along the lines of "Taylor is happy to have her carbon emissions and flights published, however due to the very real threat of stalking she faces we request a 3 days delay in this data being published." - which I can understand more.
I loved the video the only part I would disagree with however is what you said about it not being the fans place to make her do better. Especially if we go by the logic that she is the elected by her fans person with power. That's just the democracy. Also the fandom is the only way to make celebrities take better actions that they normally wouldn't like lower their carbon emission as an example and in grand skim of things it impacts the whole planet. Also well yeah fans and their money make the celebrities the people with power, so in the way of expecting somebody to then not spend the money on a cause that's just anti-human imo fandom should police what their faves openly support and the actions that are just wrong for environment. I am not talking about things like sb's private life or what they are wearing or what their private political beliefs are as long as they aren't harming people of course. Just unfair business practices and such. Especially if you build your brand on being aware, kind and conscious and not taking actions towards these goals. If your selling point for fans is that then it would only be natural for your fans to hold you up to that standard. Not in a toxic way of course, but there are ways to do it like speaking about it and raising awareness. ❤ Edit: Just wanted to add that what you said about the concert and the sense of community concerts give us reminded me a lot of going to church? I was catholic and the masses kind of have the same psychological effect I suppose and here again believing in something shouldn't make us unable to criticise is like being a part of church shouldn't make us unable to judge what it's doing, because then we end up with people abusing the power we give them as a community and betraying the trust they crafted in out minds. 😅
i don’t really agree with the democracy idea for celebrities though. it’s not like taylor promised to be a an ethical anti-capitalist and people bought her music on that condition and got betrayed. people like her and her music and that made her successful. of course not supporting her is voting with your coin but i think “policing” her maybe is too far? depends how you do it i guess. critiquing her use of private jets or merch ethics is super fair but is that policing? just wondering out loud. also i do fear of fans fee entitled to tell her what to do the line where it is and isn’t appropriate is blurry. like the backlash from her dating matty healy extended to wanting her to be put in a conservator ship. what does policing entail and when is it appropriate?
Hmm. Fascinating to see your take on this. Her music doesn't interest me (not my taste - and how frustrating is it that I always have to add this), but I am always interested in fandoms, the artists they follow and the stories and questions they raise. So, thank you for the thoughts!
I remember when she came to Amsterdam I saw people buy tickets for €800 or more. It was so outrageously expensive that it was on the news and it started questions on how ethical those ticket prices were. Even people who couldn't really afford it could've bought those tickets, because they were (potentially delusional) fans... And I don't think the local areas in the NL benefitted from that... I think it caused more people to be in debt to be honest...
Lately I keep saying Taylor Swift is like McDonalds. Successful business. Yummy burgers, constantly updating, not necessarily innovating. Impossible not to know. In every city. Impossible to avoid. Not all that nutritious or carefully made. Guilty pleasure. She's an excellent business woman. She has this many hits just by the law of averages because her output is so overwhelmingly everywhere.
I've been listening to Taylor Swift's music since her first album. We are about the same age and, like a lot of young women, I always found her songs relatable and feel like I grew up with her music. Despite that, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of coverage she gets now and the weird obsession her fans/the media have with her and her personal life. Despite liking her songs all these years, I never followed or cared about her personal life, never knew who she dated, etc. The idolization is weird, too.
I've never bought merch from her because with those prices her clothing should be cotton or wool but they're literally 100% acrylic and polyester. Also cheap looking notebooks and knicknack for so much is ridiculous
Leena I almost certainly agree with whatever you’re about to say about this private jet billionaire but I’m also addicted to those lyrics so I’m not ready
On the "suing Olivia Rodrigo" front - Rodrigo actually got called out/sued for copying Paramore in a song on 'Sour', and then Rodrigo's team essentially seem to have decided it would be easier if they gave credits to everyone who Rodrigo pulled influence from to make a song to avoid potentially more suing e.g. Swift and Antonoff for 'Cruel Summer' as that bridge was an inspiration for the bridge in 'Deja Vu'. Think the whole music crediting/suing stuff in recent decades has become really difficult because everything influences everything else, so where do you draw the line - it's really interesting to get into the minutiae of haha
Paramore actually didn’t sue Olivia! I remember when Hayley found out they were being credited, she was surprised but very flattered. I remember her posting about it on her story. There is also no evidence of Taylor suing Olivia. But of course, we can’t know what happened behind the scenes and if Taylor asked for credit in private
There's inspiration and there's direct interpolation. Olivia straight up copied the piano chords from one of Taylor's songs and then her team (not necessarily Olivia herself) was stupid enough to think no one would take issue in this era of music labels and their paranoid chokehold for credit/permission.
@@missmusic4951 ? if you’re talking about the interpolation from NYD that was credited from the start though, i’m not aware of any direct interpolation in DV
All I know is that my local Whole Foods had to install a lock on their toilets because so many Swifties descended on the place to pee when TS was in town, they overran the place and used up all the toilet paper and soap, including the surplus in the janitor closet. And they did not buy anything in the store before or after. What's the old saw? "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans"
Thank you for such a balanced, nuanced take! A lot of takes I constantly see in the comments sections about TS always remind me of your video from a while ago about people using blanket statements to make kinda weak political points. Like just spam commenting "There’s no such thing as an ethical billionaire 😤" under anything about Taylor Swift is kinda useless when... most big celebrities are billionaires. Shes barely even the richest, Rhianna is richer than her. One thing I have found fascinating is how she's (complicatedly) the first to become a billionaire through her music career alone. In that, she doesn’t have a Skims or a Fenty or celebrity perfume (she did once decades ago but its been long since discontinued). And her owning the full rights to her masters undoubtedly played a huge part in that- it didn't surprise me at all that she ticked over into the billionaire club the moment 1989 (TV) was released. And if a mass proportion of her wealth is on the popularity and success of her music, in an age when the majority of music is consumed through streaming (which artists get a fairer split on Spotify, thanks to Taylor way back) It surely becomes profit generated through a product (her music) that... doesnt need to be physically produced, there are (in this particular respect) no factory workers to exploit to produce her millions. Her songs can be streamed infinitely. All of that to say, I think she's a really interesting case study for what happens within this capitilistic hellhole when artists fully own the rights to their work, and puts an economic metric on the extent people and society actually really fucking does value art in a world where many in power (Torys) will try and tell you that art "doesnt make money".
Wonderfully nuanced video ! Could you link that study about syncing heartbeats in a theater because that's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. Again, great video ! ❤
I feel like we can both be angry about the collosal scale of fossil fuel fields, and also at how irresponsible Taylor is being with her flights. I understand you were trying to put the amount into context, but I think that the comparison between her flights and fossil fuel fields is irrelevant as she is partly the reason for them going ahead. Frequent flyers are the market that demands the product. I think we should be aware and care about both things, rather than use one to dismiss the other? Though I do understand that being someone as famous as Taylor swift does mean flights, or private jets are somewhat necessary due to the frenzy her being creates just existing. Can you imagine trying to drive anywhere or go anywhere with that many people flocking around you constantly. So I do feel that's a valid reasons for flying, however the amount she does fly is very irresponsible. And I think sending a ceasefire and desist to the person tracking her flight records maybe demonstrates that she doesn't want to be called out or criticised for this? I don't know, I'm not sold 🤷♀️
Part of US trademark law is that you have to protect the trademark- you cannot allow anyone to use it if you want to keep it. That’s why taylor has to shut down people profiting off her trademarks like etsy accounts.
Yes! Olivia flat out said that she wanted the bridge of Deja vu to sound like cruel summer. If Taylor/her team didn’t uphold that copyright than anyone else could make a blatant rip-off and get away with it.
I learned that from John and Hank Green. They chose not to trademark DFTBA because to stop Hobby Lobby from using it would also mean they'd have to stop Emma With An Etsy Shop from using it. I don't think most people like that the law is that way, but that's how it is.
Your experience working at that right winged newspaper is spot on, like I've met so many people who will smile at you, be nice to you in person, and then later on find out they have horrible beliefs that oppress others, thwart equality, and drive hatred in this world. It's disorienting, but the most valid thing - because after some time, those beliefs show up in their behavior, and you find out, they're really not that nice at all
I have SO MUCH to say as a longterm Swiftia and anticapitalist climate advocate, thank you for making this nuanced video! A few points for discussion: her wealth (as described by Forbes) is basically half the worth of catalogue ($500 mil), half from streaming and touring ($500 mil), and a bit from real estate ($125 mil). The worth of her music catalogue, I would probably end up saying is one of the more ethical ways to achieve this evaluation. Real estate seems excessive, but mostly she actually spends time at these houses, as do her family and friends and it is hard to sell places of this value, so while it's not ethical, it's not exploitative specifically. Streaming and touring is full of much more ethical problems, from many vinyl album variants, to ridiculous tour prices, to the MERCH (we need more transparency and after that ethical production), these sources of wealth are based on a lot of exploitation, though it is good that she isn't hoarding all of the wealth from the tour, she pays everyone on tour well above industry standards.
FWIW, vinyl variants and merch aren't under her control, it's her label being just as bad as every other major label. Short of starting her own label (which will prob happen eventually, but I think she has her hands full running her own tours), there are areas where she really doesn't have much pull, especially if she wants to own her music (which indicates how fucked up the industry is). She used to have much more control over merch until she had to give it away in 2019 to own her masters. Her real ticket prices were reasonable for getting to see the biggest music act on the planet, in her prime, for a three hour show. Ticketmaster and scalpers are what make the prices skyrocket to truly heinous numbers. Nobody is going to see The Beatles in the '60s, Michael Jackson in the '80s, Madonna in the early '90s, or Britney Spears in 2002 without paying a hefty price.
That's a great point about half her net worth consisting of her music catalog. People pay millions for famous paintings, but we would never criticise the artist for making something that people consider so valuable. What I'd love to know more about, and I think this is where a lot of the recent controversies (e.g. suing people) come from, is who is responsible for what? What's the label's doing and what is hers? What is she legally/contractually obliged to do and say, and what is she choosing freely? We'll never know some of those distinctions I'm sure, but more transparency would be great.
Thanks for breaking that down. I hadn't even considered that her music itself (as opposed to the sales of the music/tours/merch) was part of the valuation, although in retrospect it seems obvious.
I still cant understand what makes her so popular. Among the top pop female artists, she just seems perfectly basic. She never does something groundbraking or really artistic or risky. Maybe that's the thing. The thing that is the most average in every way is the one with the widest appeal
Really interested to hear your views- i def think ts is someone who should be critiqued, but that largely the criticisms will be drowned out by her supporters. Her art is worthy of love & fandom, but celebs have to understand the power of a fanbase, esp one that big
I disagree we don't know "the person". She is very unaware of how self-aware she actually is. People present their 'true selves' via their behaviours and words. She tries to hide it with a veneer of charm/charity. If you watch enough interviews/videos, and really assess the patterns/motivations of her behaviour, business practices and words (and really *listen* to what she is saying) it reveals A LOT about who she is as a person - e.g. even when complimenting others, she compliments herself through her association with them.
Would recommend the guardian podcast on Swift called 'Why do so many Americans believe the Taylor Swift and Joe Boden conspiracy?'. I think in the past I'd dismissed her potential political influence, maybe because I'm not a fan and so can't quite comprehend the enormity of her following, but the purported stats for how many voters would base their vote on her's is astounding. I feel like she has such a large fanbase now that, if she did hold liberal/leftist views, she could state that and still be incredibly successful, so it's interesting that she doesn't. I think it's worth stating just how much bigger a deal she is now than during the previous election cycle, even though she was huge then. The Eras tour and everything that goes along with it has brought her to ridiculous and, as you rightly say, 'Elvis level' heights.
I want to push back on the stadiums comment. A lot of stadiums in the US are built using bonds that are basically debt for the urban centers, and urban centers in this country 1) are disproportionately comprised of lower income and vulnerable folks and 2) struggle to pay for basic infrastructure that their residents need to survive. Having huge crowds come out to the stadiums help cities recoup their massive investments. Now do I think stadiums are a good land use as an urban planner? No. But the investments have already been made. Love your perspectives but this falls short from the American context.
Also, our stadiums that host concerts are usually sports stadiums that *are* used year round and regularly to host major artists and concerts. Ie in New Orleans, we use the SuperDome all the time for Saints games, Beyoncé came last fall, and Bad Bunny is coming next month. Taylor Swift is part of that consistent seasonal rotation that is very very very unlike your Olympics example.
19:41 unrelated, but I'd love a video about working with people whose politics strongly oppose yours. Currently in that situation myself and I'm not always sure what to do, so I'd love some insight on how to handle it!
Maybe I'm in too deep but factual errors about what Taylor Swift has or has not done make it hard for me to really engage with communities that try to criticize her, even though I'm very open to using her actions/her ability to command all of our attention as a springboard for discussing systemic issues. Like, she never sued Olivia Rodrigo. I don't agree with her recieving writing credits on Olivia's song deja vu, but we don't know whether those credits were requested or proactively offered, let alone whether there was any real threat of legal action motivating those writing credits. And if commentors on this video don't know where she stands on abortion rights, I feel like they very obviously haven't been paying attention. None of this is to say that she's a perfect person or should be discussed as if she's above any and all critique, or that we as leftists shouldn't question and challenge any loyalty or allegiance we feel to a woman who cannot offer us the same to us as individuals due to the sheer scale of her business enterprise and whose class interests are diametrically opposed to ours, but don't we care about the truth? Do we need to invent reasons why she might secretly be nastier than her track record of public statements and behavior indicates? I personally think it's enough to understand that she's a flawed and fallible human being who is deeply embedded in and invested in the maintenance of systems I find unjust. I hold that truth at the same time as I hold the truth that her art has meant a lot to me throughout my life and that I find her personal narrative as a public figure by and large charming and sympathetic. Caring deeply about Taylor Swift's art, having empathy for her as a human, and enjoying some celebrity gossip from time to time while being a radical leftist is part of what makes *me* a flawed and fallible human being and I think that's fine.
I'm not familiar with her music, but i don't think you can become a billionaire and be a nice person and that is it. Most of us can't even imagine how much money that is, you could live a good life without working another day with maybe 10 millions and that in US/EU, here in the third world you could do it with one a and still have to share.
I think Taylor knows that involving politics isn't necessarily a good business thing for her and that she doesn't have the influence on politics that you might expect her to have.
@@anawsomehuman3064 AHAHAHAHA OH NOOOOO 😂 my adhd is showing 🙃 I was so over excited for the video I mashed up leena’s name 😂 and I was so proud of myself and everything!! I was like oh that’s chaotic but cute, sure why not.. and now.. now I realise my error 😅 I am a twat 😂
Love this video. I used to be a Swifty, but I stopped putting celebs on a pedestal tbh. I feel like having expectations from celebs is just setting yourself up for dissapointment.
@@aidanraine13 Taylor speaks about feminism and LGBTQ rights etc. through her art or in interviews often. She has portrayed herself as someone who cares about these issues. It's one of the reasons I liked her. But I now realize that her activism extends only to the point where it makes her look good in the mainstream. For instance, she remains silent on the ongoing Gaza massacre. She didn't even sign her name in the Artists4Ceasefire letter that many celebs signed and it's the least she could have done. I see this as a lack of humanity. We constantly say that "celebs are human" so why can't we expect them to have a humane response to historic tragedies? And if I wanted to hear music from someone without humanity, I'd just listen to A.I. generated music. Now, I'd much rather listen to artists like Hozier, Declan McKenna, etc. who have shown their humanity during one of our age's biggest atrocity.
you can't be serious the private jets don't have an impact. people are out there eating less meat, showering shorter. trying everything we can to cut our carbon footprint and someone's personal jet doesn't matter??!
Comparing how Taylor treats her fans to how a new boyfriend treats you is a super weird comparison. She creates music, we enjoy it and purchase it. That's our whole relationship
I think it's an interesting comparison. It's obviously referring to the parasocial part that's beyond the music.... plenty of artists make music that we enjoy. But she's fostered a real relationship with thousands of fans that involves real-life actions like having them over, having one-on-one conversations, baking cookies together, etc. I get the comparison to a "new boyfriend" because it's real, and it's not only music, but it is a bit shallow when compared with deeper real-life relationships.
Not really when a portion of her fans harasses her exes, speculates about them seeded by Taylor lyrics and ambiguity, feel animosity towards other artists or celebrities who are supposed "enemies" of Taylor... for many people it goes way beyond listening to music you like
I also think that people believe that Taylor should speak up nowadays and judge her for not doing so out of frustration that a person with so much power does not use their position to speak against the systems that be that are literally causing g3nocide in other countries with their tax dollars…. But she obviously won’t or can’t, maybe because she isn’t “knowledgeable” in these subjects but I suspect more because she herself is a High Priestess of Capitalism and Liberalism. Speaking out against these values would be her personal downfall and honestly probably won’t make much of a difference.
Hey, unrelated to the video but I really want to tell you about a book I read about climate change recently and don't have any other social media. So just in case you see this and are looking for books for your book club it's called "The weight of nature" by Clayton Page Aldern and is about the neurological effect that climate change has on our minds from the way memory affects our perception of climate to how heat interacts with our emotions and direct effect of specific neurotoxins on our brains becoming more common with climate change.
I’ve seen people say she could get a ceasefire to happen with one instagram post - I think people overestimate her political power. Yes it would be brilliant if she spoke up, and yes she is a tad cowardly for not doing so, but I don’t think she can bring about the consequences people think she can
As someone who is NOT a Taylor Swift fan, I just sat through 43 minutes of this video because I AM a fan of yours and I knew you would pose some good non-biased points. Loved that. My husband and I (both in our 30s) love to hate on Taylor but we also have to admit that she is a bit of a phenomenon for our generation. For what reasons, we may all disagree. I feel as though she does write songs that she knows will resonate with a wide audience but in my opinion her lyrics do not have a lot of depth. I do not think of her as a poet at all. She writes to sell records. An example of a singer/song writer who I believe is writing for the art and love and soul, is Marie Siou. She, I believe is a true poet. If you give her a listen, I am sure you’ll sense the difference. But look, I get it. I get the love for the community built around her music. I also think that people should be able to enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy. Personally, I don’t like her music, so it’s easy for me to not support her and her lifestyle. Which, I do believe is detrimental to the environment and just because she seems like a “nice person” does not give her a pass. Like you said, no one accidentally becomes a billionaire. You have to actively step on people to do so. And honestly, anyone who charges that much money for their concert tickets is an asshole. I also have to push back on the poet laureate comparison. Taylor swift is to lyric writing as Rupi Kaur is to poetry, in my opinion.
The actual ticket prices were reasonable when you're talking about seeing the biggest music act in the world for three hours (expensive, obviously, but not insane given the size of the show and the ridiculous level of demand), the ones who jacked up prices to like tens of thousands of dollars were scalpers largely enabled by Ticketmaster. They say people don't accidentally become a billionaire, which is largely true, but she's the only one who's done it on the value of her discography and touring alone, and she's known for paying her employees incredibly well. On the list of which billionaires need to pay for their crimes against humanity, she's at the bottom tbh.
@@missmusic4951 I just checked current ticket prices and I would not call them reasonable. In Miami, Florida ticket prices are between 1,000 and 6,000 per ticket. Absolutely not reasonable. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter how she became a billionaire. What matters is that she is one and what is she going to do with that. I do not believe that anyone deserves that amount of money. No matter how “nice” or “hard working” they are. Sure, she pays it forward to those who work for her and some of her fans….those who have helped her amass her wealth. I would love my fans too, if they made me a billionaire. Just another way to craft that beloved public image. Remember, she is a business woman. What about the rest of the world, though? Now, she has a responsibility to give that money to those who can truly benefit. You can be a fan of hers and still admit that no one should be a billionaire. Also, where is the outrage over the fact that her merch is made in sweat factories and of low quality material which will most likely end up in the landfill? We should still be holding her to a higher standard and not giving her a pass simply because you like her music and think she is a nice person.
Correction: I am JUBILATED to find out that Right Said Fred ARE actually credited on lwymmd! Go Taylor. One more on the plus side of this weird little parasocial tally we're all trying to keep up with ;)
Also she never sued Olivia rodrigo, Olivia said she wanted the bridge of deja vu to sound like cruel summer in an interview, Taylor’s team asked for credit and Olivia’s team gave it, no law suit. Still a shitty move.
@@diaz9rox yeah I think she added Paramore to Good For You after the interenet made the comparison - which to be fair does have a looot of similarities to misery business. But in the same conversation Elvis Costello said he didn't give s-- about Brutal sounding like his song, and that art inspires art! So I think olivia was just trying to save her ass just in case. But taylor and her camp shouldn't have asked imo
i nipped round the wicked streaming shop to have a listen to lwymmd. perhaps it is me being an old fogie, but it does not belong in the same galaxy as itsfms
in general i don't think it's right for artists to have to give credit and pay royalties over rhythmic and melodic similarities though. there's only so many notes and intervals in western music theory, leaving *so much* possibility of that being coincidental.
I must have missed the Right Said Fred in that song. I've only heard "I'm Too Sexy" though. Not sure they made other songs.
As an avid swifty, my biggest issue with her is the consumerism. The multitude of CDs/Vinyls she releases with each album (that are only different in colour/one track) really rubs me the wrong way. I heard someone say that it's people's decisions on what they spend their money on, but Taylor is very aware of the obsessive nature of her fans and how a lot of us with buy anything she puts out, so it feels a little exploitative, like "I know my fans will buy multiple copies of a £20 album so I'm going to make four different versions!"
But don't the fans kinda like it...?
I neither like her, not dislike her. Just saying that enjoying collecting stuff is like... Very human.
@@lorenam8028 Yeah I understand that. I feel the urge a lot as well, and I have bought her CDs more as a collector's item than something that I use, but I think it's more so when you have a bunch of CDs or Vinyls that have the same songs, but they come in 4 different colours. It feels like a waste of resources to me and like she's only doing it for money - which I guess just shatters the thought, as a fan, that she's only doing it for the art which is unlikely when someone is that successful 😅
i feel the same way, just don’t get it- especially because most people now stream music
i dont think taylor is a match against the suits that own her, we know she fought them and her dad to openly be a lib, but thats different than convincing them to not sell stuff.
@@thejoyintrying Yeah, just like bo burnham said: art is dead; nobody's doing it just for the sake of it anymore, they just want to make money
I don’t know why fans like to separate her music from her business from her “personality” when it’s clear from her documentary that everything we see from her is part of building her brand, that would be music, her feeding the parasocial relationships her fans have and her girl boss business decisions. It’s incredible how good at being a pop star she is, that she’s now become the most sympathetic billionaire. She’s clearly a brand, I think it’s a good exercise to critique our faves though
Buying carbon offsets feels like modern day Indulgences
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH i love ur comment
The argument "its not her, its her label/manager/etc" reminds me of an interview of Zendaya where shes telling a story of an photoshoot for a cover of a magazine. She didnt like her hair and make up and her publicists said "You should just be happy with it - they haven’t had a black girl on the cover since forever." And Z said her reaction to that was to fire the publicist. The celebrity has the power, especially someone as Taylor Swift, she has all the power you can possibly get
As a former BTS fan (I still think they’re great, just not a self-defined “fan”), I find the Swiftie fandom so familiar to kpop dynamics: foster a pseudo-personal relationship with fans and then milk them relentlessly. When this was done by Koreans, the media coverage always pointed this out - but I rarely see it mentioned in Swift coverage.
Are you talking about media coverage in English or in Korean? I'm wondering if the Korean news/media industry is more sensitive to the systems that underlie famous people
@sarahwatts7152 I meant western media - Korean/Japanese media seemed (from my narrow view) very aware & okay with the profit-driven nature of the industry.
😅p😊0
You could boil down any artist/fan relationship to that if you're cynical enough. There's a world of difference between how kpop runs its business and how Taylor grew her fanbase, although I can understand how people can look at her in the present day and make assumptions. But when you look at the whole picture it's clear that she, at the bare minimum, genuinely gives a shit about her fans more than most.
If Taylor's fanbase gets milked by anyone it's her label with their awful approach to merch (which is exactly like every other major label's awful approach to merch)--she had to give up control over her merch in order to own her music in 2019, the before and after difference in merch tactics is HUGE.
@@missmusic4951 So do many kpop artists. With bts specifically, their rise to popularity was somewhat of an anomaly in kpop and different to "how kpop (generally) runs its business" and it took years of growing their fanbase. Yes, there is a world of difference of how kpop works as an industry and Taylor Swift specifically, but there are also a lot of similarities in how they (currently, in the current day) work and interact with their fanbases. And I think pointing out these similarities (or rather, pointing out how different the media seems to treat them!) is very necessary in order to question what underlying biases might be at play here.
A 45 minute leena video on the ethics of Taylor swift… sign me up!
There are few people out there who I'd want to hear from on the subject of Taylor Swift, but Leena is definitely one of them 🎉 this is the video I needed but didn't even know 😂
Thank you sooooo much for creating this space where I can both love her and not love her at the same time 😭😭❤️❤️
VERY THIS
Also here to say VERY THIS! I've had complicated feelings for a while, and so for someone who has a very "all or nothing" mindset, it's refreshing to know it can be nuanced.
just say you hate her and move on.
@@Emilnananaxo oops, complicated feelings aren't allowed now?
I’m very much in favor of the notion that liking someone famous and also feeling conflicted about them is not only valid, but it’s pretty normal actually and means you’re paying attention. ❤
23:25
I get what you're going for in this section, and agree that we should raise awareness of how awful governments are with greenlighting new projects/regulating company's emissions.
However, in my opinion, "she could be worse" and "she's not as bad as companies & countries" hold *no* water whatsoever as arguments.
I'm more concerned with people who pick and choose when these individual arguments apply.
As someone else said, it makes more sense to compare her to individuals with similar power to her than to companies or countries.
Exactly. Comparatively better isn't objectively good. Wealthy people like her are the primary cause of climate change, period - as well as it being hypocritical that she once said she cared about climate change.
As an Aussie, want to mention the flight example with Swifties travelling wasn't great. She only did Eras tour dates in Sydney and Melbourne, causing so many domestic flights to go there. I know of people who flew from Sydney to Melbourne to see it cos they couldn't get tickets to it in their city. Also international flights from here are very expensive. So I just don't think its stands up as an argument from an international standpoint re: flights.
But the fossil fuel plants is a very good point (rip our govt keeps approving them).
No tour dates in New Zealand really contributed to this! I heard of so many people flying for the tour. But yeah the fossil fuel projects is a great comparison to put things in perspective!
Same! I live in one of the other Aussie capital cities, and so many people were travelling to go see TSwift.
Here to say the same thing, I live in Singapore and was unable to get tickets to Eras here (and most of my local friends were too) because I was competing with 2+ million people across Asia. It was apparently estimated that 70% of attendees had flown in from surrounding countries! And some people from Singapore couldn't get tickets locally so they flew to Australia lol
I agree whole heartedly but I also think that travelling for concerts has maybe become the norm? Not that that's a good thing I mean I had to fly to see Taylor I would have much rather her have more tour dates around the country but I think many artists have issues planning tour dates around their availability, health schedules of places and the cost? I'd be really interested to have more insight on why artists are deciding to do multiple shows in one place instead of flying to more locations to understand it better. Like Coldplay only did shows in perth for climate change reasons but I really don't think that paid off as again many people travelled from over east to attend.
So glad you mentioned this! I live in Perth, which is a capital city that often misses out on concerts because of our distance from other capitals. I personally listen to a lot of smaller/less well known bands and artists due to my genre preferences , and I completely understand why they would struggle to afford to come to my area. But Taylor? I was surprised to see basically no annoyance or disappointment on social media from people I know who love her music. She could have managed to come to some more places surely? The Perth fans I know who travelled across our large country to see her expressed their absolute joy about the experience they had, which is wonderful, but no criticism of the additional cost and time they had to spend to have that experience.
I don't know, I just found it odd I suppose!
I think comparing Swift's flights doesn't necessarily hold up when you compare her to countries or fossil fuel projects; she's an individual, and I think she should be compared to other individuals. It would be more useful to know what percentage of her trips could have feasibly been done in cars, trains, tour buses, etc, how many of her trips took less than an hour, how many were for personal reasons. I can understand that she wouldn't want to travel on commercial airliners as each trip would be substantially interrupted by fans, so there's a reasonability metric here. How many of these private plane trips are really warranted or reasonable? How does she compare to other musicians of the same caliber/popularity? This would be quite the undertaking to do (and sounds to me like the research for a masters or phd), but it would be comparing apples to apples, rather than apples to Tuvalu.
(I also just finished rereading The Sex Lives of Cannibals, everyone should read it, it's a great time and happens to be about Tarawa, another of these pacific equatorial islands)
Here are the comparisons with her peers (i.e., celebrities): Despite the eras tour, she didn't even crack the top 30 for private jet carbon emissions in 2023. A study named her the #1 emitter for 2022 but was then revealed to actually have a methodological flaw. They assumed all flights emitted the same amount per km flown, which wasn't true. She uses a pretty efficient plane, and so with updated calculations, she was no longer in that spot. Thus, I think she became the poster child of this problem simply bc using her name leads to much more engagement than other celebs do.
@@theoriginal4ever7 Thats quite interesting, I should look into this
I don't know this for sure, but I can't imagine super busy celebrities wanting to take plane flights that are hours long just for fun. And a manager is the one often booking the flights and scheduling things, not the celebrity.
@@sarahberkner rich people can do anything for fun. You give them too much credit
Have you heard about the climate seniors from Switzerland? The European Court of Human Rights judged that their human rights had been violated by the Swiss government not doing enough to fight climate change. So at least we are moving in the direction of climate crime being a thing.
Thanks for bringing up the climate seniors, I hadn’t heard of that case and am curious to see the wider impacts.
Sigh the problem with the fight against climate change is the repair can't keep up with the destruction.
Ecocide is being committed and many people don't even realise it
I believe the flying with privacy dilemma can be resolved by outlawing the ownership of private jets, make these rich people rent a private jet to fly, and they will fly less!
I kind of agree with this, but considering how capitalism works, I think people would inflate the rent way too much
@@9Nikko8well that would not be a problem for the uber rich anyway👀
@@9Nikko8 Haha well then they'll be flying even less! 😄
Kim Namjoon from BTS goes to work on a bicycle. A PUBLIC city bicycle, that he pays a yearly subscription to the city of Seoul to use. Taylor can get into a fucking car.
ok but someone would still have to own them. when you rent something you rent it from someone
Great video. I used to be a HUGE swiftie and definitely fed into that parasocial relationship dynamic that I believe she enables. But after really looking at how she only speaks about social justice issues when it directly affects or benefits her something shifted for me. I began to view her as profiting off of a white and non-intersectional feminism which is something I could not look past. And then when she collaborated with Ice Spice after musty Healy made racist remarks about her that really did not sit with me right at all. It felt like a strategy to avoid accountability. So I stopped listening to her music and engaging with the swiftie fandom. However, I will always love her music. It got me through some really awful times and I won't deny that. I also won't deny that she is incredibly talented. I just can not (and don't wish to) separate the art from the artist.
One thing to add context to the cease and desist of Etsy sellers is that legally speaking you HAVE to defend your trademark or you lose it. The issue with this is that if she allows small, independent fans to sell items with her trademarks, she then doesn't have a leg to stand on when big fast fashion brands use her trademarks to sell shirts. This is an ongoing issue with trademark and copyright law where there is no easy way to license things to small creators without giving H&M and Amazon and Forever 21 the right to slap her trademarks on a shirt and both denying Taylor the money but also pushing small independent artists out of the market anyway. It's more a flaw with the legal system than a knock against Taylor imo
I absolutely loved the EXTREMELY inportant point 'people wouldnt be doing some things, if only they were not allowed.' We tend to get stuck with the opossite side (things that are illegal yet people do them, like dr*gs) but the reality is thay the vast vast majority of the population is NOT doing the illegal thing and particularly BIG figures (either in fame or richness) are more careful not only as a personal trait but also because they experience more scrutiny. It would be extremely effective if for example, a federal law made flights under 45 min restricted to medical emergencies only - surprise! Taylor, Elon, Kylie Jenner or whoever, they just wouldn't do it. Oh the gains!
"If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class"
@@meli-belli👏
I feel this discussion needs the distinction between "nice" and "kind"
Lots of positively foul people are "nice" but they aren't kind
💯
17:46 except she’s a rich white girl, she’s more than protected if she ever said anything substantial. Also note the documentary is controlled by her so she’s just looking like she’s oh so torn about the struggle of being quiet. Frankly Taylor isn’t even a feminist she’s a Taylorist
it's giving billionaire apologist. "should we tell her how to live her life, no". people with her amount of money and influence, and therefore power to make significant change in the world (and this extends to all celebrity billionaires) absolutely should be held to account for their actions, for the amount they consume, the amount they fly, the sheer volume of crap merchandise and products they pump into the world. not questioning wealth accumulation like this is just free market liberalism at its worst.
re carbon emissions: if swifties in the us earn on average under 50k, then how would fans be able to afford to fly to see her on top of the cost of an eras ticket if she didn't fly to other countries? the math ain't mathing. if she didn't fly to other countries, the average fan simply would not be able to afford to fly to see her (flight, hotel, concert ticket, time off work etc etc) and so wouldn't. she flies to other countries to perform for her own financial gain.
you also don't have to be a qualified politician or climate scientist to have a valid opinion on climate change or politics in general. i wouldn't listen to half of the politicians in the uk about important issues because they are all power hungry lunatics.
Yep
(disclaimer that i love taylor’s music but have complicated feelings about being a fan and about her) appreciate you did bring nuance to this topic. the bit about “using private life for financial gain” seemed to debate an argument that isn’t (i don’t think?) there. i don’t think the concern is her creating art for financial gain. the issue is more playing into the speculation about her personal life sometimes. people like to forget she intentionally put easter egg codes in her liner notes that referred to her personal life. and far more recently she made those “denial / bargaining etc” playlists for her own songs, and it would be naive to suggest she didn’t know the kind of speculation that would lead to. it was an unnecessary move. so i’m not at all surprised swifties play those games when she’s made Easter Eggs such a thing in her work and encouraged that way of looking at her work. and she (ik ik among many others) plays on fans love by releasing variants, not just different artwork but to own specific songs. (there’s a chart that shows there’s still no one comprehensive midnights cd). which would have been an interesting thing to discuss in terms of capitalism and waste. anyway idk how much faith i have in swifties because honestly they usually seem so focused on defence at all costs that they refuse to hear any valid concerns or criticisms. so even if i’m a fan i’ve never really wanted to be associated with the fandom because the online presence puts such a bad taste in my mouth.
r/SwiftlyNeutral
I really liked what you said. I’ve been a swiftie for over a decade and being part of the fandom has given me friends and joy. But recently it’s been a struggle to deal with some fans. Maybe it’s because I am 31 years old so I see Taylor as a person not a goddess that can do no wrong, therefore should be held responsible for her actions or lack there of when it comes to using her platform to bring awareness on global issues, for example. I’m with you on all the variants (something that many artists are doing now) - please just release the full album and let us enjoy it 😅
This! 👍🏻
I am a new swiftie and I agree
She did the liner note thing from her teen years into her early twenties, when she was a young and admittedly more self-righteous, but she hasn't done it since. And the denial/bargaining playlists was a response to a fan theory that the album had something to do with the five stages of grief, and even though the theory was wrong she still took inspiration from it and made the playlists as a way to talk about the album and engage with what fans were talking about. It's a bit impossible to talk about your art without indicating your personal life when your art is *about* your personal life, and I think she's long since grown up and found a pretty good balance in what she chooses to reveal and what she keeps private.
She doesn't have control over merch or variants, and hasn't since 2019. Her merch situation before then was markedly better before her label got control. Vinyl variants etc does bring up a good convo about waste, but to lay it at Taylor's feet when every label pulls the same crap isn't totally fair. Having watched the situation for years, it definitely seems like the label says "hey we're gonna do vinyl variants for the album" and at best Taylor gets input on what they look like. In this day and age I'm kinda stunned putting exclusive songs on each variant even works considering it'll all be posted online about five seconds after people get their hands on them. In general she's always tried to strike the right balance between treating fans well and navigating the capitalist hellscape in what ways she can
Leena in her speak now era
❤
On the topic of Taylor being nice, I wanted to adress her behavior in Brazil.
I'm from Brazil and went to two of the shows in São Paulo.
In the first show in Rio (a week before mine) a girl died and the only acknowledgement that Taylor made was singing Bigger Than the Whole Sky. She didn't even say the girl's name, so if you didn't know what happened you would just think it's a regular surprise song. Yes, it wasn't her fault that the stadium organizers were greed dickheads and provided terrible first aid. But it felt like a slap in the face for many Brazilians that Taylor who is known for being loving of her fans wouldn't say or do anything. And the biggest pop star in the world couldn't press the organizers to have a better structure?
We have also seen pictures of Taylor's mom with girls that passed out on shows in the US and was there to give them a ticket for the next day. But when a Brazilian girl dies, her family has to open a crowd funding to pay for the body to be taken home?
Sure, on the last day of tour in Brazil the family posted a photo backstage and with Taylor. A cousin of the girl later said that Taylor's team told them they can't say anything about the help she gave them. So, it sits very weird with me that someone so beloved by her public show of affection to fans carry out this tragic event like she did. It does make us feel like that our lives are worth less than an american's life.
Not to metion the atrocious things American/European swifties say about Taylor's security when she comes to Latin America.
She made a post on instagram when it happened expressing her grief and condolences, and she specifically mentioned in the post that she wouldn't be capable of talking about it on stage. She essentially wept through Bigger than the Whole Sky and didn't just snap out of it when the song was over, either. After everything she's done for fans for almost twenty years I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt, and you said yourself the family isn't allowed to talk about how Taylor helped them, meaning that she did help but we can't know the details for whatever reason. Again, a little benefit of the doubt goes a long way.
I was so disappointed too. I went to the first show in Rio. Since then I can't look at the photos or videos I took there, I don't feel good when I listen to her songs. A girl died while we were singing Cruel Summer. Taylor posted that she died before the show: she did not, she died during the show. She never mentioned or posted her name. It took her a long time to offer help. We don't know how she really felt, but the way she handled it was cold in my opinion.
Is it possible she doesn’t want to be too generous (or for it to be publicly known) in case people try to take advantage? E.g. by purposely harming themselves or family at a show so they can meet her or get compensation
@@vithoriaferreira4718 - We don't know how long it took for her to offer help, we know how long it was before the help became *public.* Things happen in private, especially when there's a potential legal mess with something like a stadium. But we do know that Taylor helped, she released a statement, she played a song as tribute, etc. We know she cares, it's not on her to adequately perform her grief and help for the public as much as it's on us to trust her for half a second.
She also signed a deal to not play in other SE Asian countries in exchange for money she doesn't even need. Thus screwing over fans in those countries. She is very much a white feminist, too.
I think even if she spoke up we might not like what she says. I think to get to that level of popularity one has to have wide appeal and like the royal family she won't say anything that would move her out of that position. She would have to then sacrifice something I think she wouldn't ever be willing to. I don't think anyone can accumulate that much wealth without wage theft and exploitation and/or not paying a suitable amount of tax. But I'm just not a swiftie and I'm apathetic to most celebrities which makes me outside the norm and I can appreciate her being a good artist and also not think too much about her as a person.
I guess because you're not her fan that fine but if I'm a fan of an artist and have a place in his wealth by buying his art i would prefer to know a little bit about the value of this person.
I personnaly usually don't seperate the art of the artist. For example an extreme case but i would absolutely not giving money to a predator by supporting his art.
@@MinieAnne I would tend to agree. More that she has a vested interest in maintaining mass appeal so likely won't reveal much about herself that would jeopardise that or would lose her money. So like her sending the cease and desist letter to the guy tracking her private jet, I imagine anything she says publicly will be carefully curated. Her true values will be very difficult to discover
Taylor is known for paying her employees incredibly well and taking care of them. She's the only billionaire artist who got there from just music saless, touring, and the value of her catalogue without a side hustle like a clothing brand or something else easily exploitable, for whatever it's worth.
I think there are four ways to billionaire wealth: innovation, scam, exploitation and extreme luck. With artists who have a dedicated fandom it's mostly scam. Somehow the fans are made to believe that they need to spend all that money to make their idol a "rich queen/king" instead of spending it on stuff that spreads the wealth more equally. Touring helps with that though because a lot of money goes into travel/tourism & food.
@@missmusic4951 well yeah because she has 50 versions of every album with overpriced merch that's just a grey jumper with no details??
Whilst I see what you're saying about carbon production, isn't saying that her's aren't really that important on the grand scheme of things also applicable to us? Of we're not going to focus on her carbon emissions then why bother about our own? (I don't think we shouldn't bother about our own btw but I'm curious about the logic)
The way she speaks about her private jet consumption, I think Leena didn't say we can ignore it. But maybe I missed that.
It's the same logic that applies to any other eco-conscious choice. Like, buying fast fashion is generally more acceptable if you're low income than high income, with the implication being that higher income people have more wiggle room in their budgets to support better brands. It's not the same thing if you're flying once every year or two to compare to short celebrity flights that could pretty easily and safely be drives sometimes.
Before watching the video: I cannot support anybody with that amount of money. I don't care if their name is Taylor, Beyonce, Elon or Jeff.
jealousy
@@Victori.A1Supporting billionaires isn't gonna make you any richer
womp womp
@@Victori.A1It's wild that you're so indoctrinated into the idea that money is the be all and end all of modern life that you are literally incapable of understanding that not everyone wants to be a billionaire.
@@AbKhaos hating on them won't either
I just started the video but I hope you at least briefly mentioned that time Taylor made Victoria Secret fire one of their Angels for simply answering an interview question honestly, not even in a hateful tone. (She was asked if Taylor could be a VS Angel and she said something along the lines of "it takes more than just height and beauty to be a model")
Thank god someone else has made the Taylor Swift - Princess Diana comparison!!!!! I've been saying this to people because of how unhinged people are about her and how the attention seems genuinely dangerous sometimes. (Mass fans descending on a wedding she was at reminded me so much of paparazzi chasing Diana on bikes). Whenever I bring it up, people act like I'm crazy for saying it and I truly worry we are never going to learn our lessons from history.
Yeah thank you I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the parallels- whether the feeling is positive or negative, just that volume of emotion directed at one person has historically lead to disaster.
@@leenanorms absolutely!
@@leenanorms And TS is doing it in the era of social media, which Diana didn't. Does that make it better or worse? We feel like we have behind the scenes, personal, insider access with social media, so does that let some of the pressure off by demystifying her and robbing traditional media of impetus, or does it just feed the beast? She's a one woman global experiment with no idea of where all this is leading and that's pretty scary.
Diana was someone who was abused and ultimately assasinated and spent her entire life doing charity and helping others. Swift is a white payola baby. Please do not compare the two
@@aidanthejester345This, so much. Have been genuinely worried about the spiraling and the multitudes of possible dangerous outcomes. Too many historical instances to list where similar deadly disasters resulted from this psychological phenomenon.
I want Taylor Swift to speak up precisely because I don't know how she feels so that if she has beliefs I feel are truly heinous, I can stop giving her any of my time, attention, or money. I want people with influence to not be able to hide behind polite neutrality while commanding our attention, and especially in cases of artists, I don't want to consume or encourage the art of those I find politically vehement.
She's already made her political stances known. She's a pro-queer, pro-abortion, pro-human rights, anti-racist, feminist Democrat, and all of that is available to find online. She's not going to comment on every big news story because if she started commenting on the important things she would be expected to comment on *everything,* and people have been jumping down her throat about every single word she utters for over a decade now. When you can't even say hello without all of Twitter melting down about what you should have said instead, it's no surprise that she's made her general stances known yet keeps her mouth shut most of the time. (Also, at this point she's so huge that literally anything she says makes headlines. If she spoke up regularly the entire internet would be constantly reporting it and she'd be even more overexposed than she already is.)
Just look at her actions instead of what she says or not. They are what matters most anyway.
This is exactly how I feel as well - in a way I feel as though my choice is being taken away to choose who I support with my money. We can trace back most businesses by where they spend their monies and use our purchasing power to support or not support their ideologies, we cannot do the same with a person without them speaking out. Recent genocide really opened my eyes with a lot of people and I wish I could know her stance.
Her actions say she'd rather be "all sides" so that she can avoid backlash/loss of income. I think that tells you all you need to know.
Well aren't you entitled
I may have mentioned this in another comment, but when we heard that Taylor is now a billionaire, my husband got sad and was like, "I think I like her a little less now." So he chooses not to think about it. Lol. I think it's funny that you mention the sheer amount of brain power Swifties use to figure things out, it reminds me of this post that was like, "How long do you think it would take the Swifties to solve who the Zodiac Killer is if it meant they get a new song? I say about 5-7 business days." And I always think about that. Just lives rent free in my brain because the person was not wrong.
who was the zodiac killer
im not a swiftie but i dont think i understand this comment
@@nodrvgs (to me) the person is saying that Swifties pick and choose what they pay attention to regarding their fave. they will pour days-worth of their focus into uncracking the codes taylor gives them through her music, but when it comes to her billionaire status (it's outrageous that anyone on this planet is a billionaire) they don't give a shit lmao.
@@nodrvgs He was an American serial killer that taunted the police and has technically never been caught. It's considered one of those impossible cases to solve.
ohh okay lmao, thanks for explaining, it makes way more sense now 🤣🤣 that person was not wrong at all
Speaking of carbon offsets - they are mostly a scam, or they don't actually work. Sad but true. (For example: companies buy a patch of green land and they "protect it" from being cut down as a carbon offset for the company, but in reality that specific land was already protected (by the government or sth) anyway, and the whole transaction for just for show to make the company look better)
It depends on who you're buying them from. None of them are The Answer to climate change on their own, but some are more useful than others. Some do things like just plant a bunch of tree seedlings but then not even continue caring for those trees afterward to ensure that they don't all die, which does next to nothing. I get my own carbon offsets from Go Climate. They fund a lot of different projects around the world with renewable energy production, landfill gas capture, efficient cookstoves, etc., things that actually help somewhat. So yeah, it's really important when buying offsets to look at what they're actually using the money for so you're not completely throwing your money away.
They are an excuse for the rich and indulgent to continue their bad behaviour.
And it’s really just a bandage solution anyway. It’s stupid to praise someone for buying carbon offsets instead of just expecting better of them to begin with.
To the point that there are other (richer) billionaires: yes, but i think she's the only/most prominent one to have such devoted fans and be somewhat relatable. That's why I think there's such a debate around her and what she does. With most other billionaires i guess we can just agree that they suck and move on
8:27 Taylor *does* credit them in LWYMMD. And for Deja Vu, I don't think it ever got to the point of a lawsuit, Taylor's legal team asked for credits, and Olivia's team gave them. As Olivia said 'I don't think I'd personally ever do that.' I think that a small amount of credit for similarities is fair, but 50% royalities for one similarity in the bridge is insane, and Taylor should've talked down her people to something like 10%.
Yes! 50% is too much. Tay, you’re rich as hell already. Why are you tripping off 1 song you didn’t write lol
another thing about the Olivia credit is, Olivia was a Taylor DIE HARD. really explicitly. so whilst we can’t ever know what went down cause neither of them will say, i feel like the behind the scenes can’t have been great if it caused Olivia to now be avoiding all mention of Taylor/ being a fan 😕
iirc Olivia had stopped talking about Taylor all the time way before the credit thing
There's a lot of misunderstanding about this situation bc it seems like Taylor and her team were surprised when they got credit, at least Jack was. Based on all the info I've seen around it it seems like Olivia's team took the initiative to credit Taylor and other artists as a precaution after fans online started pointing out similarities in many of her songs on SOUR to other artists (Miley was another for ex). However, you can definitely say that Taylor and her team could have refused the credit, but that's another argument.
@@theoriginal4ever7 taylor seems pretty money-hungry to me. doubt she was all that surprised
You can't convince me Olivia would let other artists recreate her melodies without a credit. Business is business
@@brodyhobart251 correct me if i’m wrong but cruel summer / deja vu isn’t about melody similarity but cause they both do a shouty thing vocally for the bridge?
Generally I agree with everything you said about celebrities speaking about poIitical issues but I also think when you refuse to acknowledge and stay silent about something, that that is saying something as well. I think when there are things as big as the genocide happening in Palestine, when you stay silent, and stay silent for this long, it speaks volumes as to where you stand and what you value.
I don’t think it speaks to where you stand cause only you they know that but yes to what you value
Agreed. Because being "apolitical" isn't actually a thing. It's a privilege of people who's existance is the norm, isn't threatened. Minorities ans/or threatened groups simply don't have this privilege.
Commenting to boost this!
THIS!! 💯
Commenting to boost as well!
I don't listen to Taylor Swift and I don't really know anything about her personal life, but I think she's a mastermind for the fact that literally no one can pinpoint whether she's a good or bad person. She's purposefully neutral because that's the most marketable place to be. And for that reason, I don't trust that she's the type of goddess that her fans see her as.
You just put my uneasy feelings about her perfectly into words. I feel like she’s always had a very calculated “nice, neutral, and relatable” persona but I see certain things that don’t align with that. Add in the complete inaction where it really counts (and doesn’t publicly benefit her in some way) and it just makes me wary.
Exactly. I don't mind her music at all (some of it, anyway), but I don't like Swifties, and I don't really trust her? (But then you'd have to be kind of an idiot to blindly trust a celebrity). She's still playing the role of the sweet, innocent, naive, cutesy girl-next-door... and for me, that doesn't really wash when you're over 30 years old, the biggest artist on the planet, and a billionaire. Her fans just mollycoddle her and it's pretty disturbing to me. She's not Disney princess, she's a marketing genius, and I respect the hustle. But people need to wake up.
7:15 yeah that’s more parasocial cultivation and dangling the prospect of being her friend
its so weird… the fake intimacy
Apologies for the incoming novel, I tried to edit and failed.
Totally agree that what Taylor does with her money is more important than what she says her politics are. As a self- labeled feminist, she could be using her resources to more permanently help people in her community (at least) in the long term. Or, if she's unsure what needs to happen to support feminist political causes, she can ask feminist scholars and leaders and pour her money into that. That would be the feminist thing to do. She calls herself one, but leaves the actual politics of feminism behind, utilizing the label for marketing only. bell hooks calls out reformist "feminists" like Taylor and their white, classist feminism out in her books.
Also, I know people are past caring about COVID, but as a previously healthy young person disabled by it, Taylor could have made an effort to protect her fans (and everyone they know) during her tour. So many people got covid at her events, meanwhile backstage there were covid precautions to protect her vulnerable mother. It's giving "sickness for thee, not for me". Swifties would've masked up to see her in person. Covid surged massively during her tour, and I can't help but see the connection and think of all the people who were disabled due to it. Feminism (intersectionally, at least) is supposed to consider ableism as well. She shouldn't take on the label of feminism if she's not going to follow through in any meaningful way.
I don't think masking at the concerts could have been effectively enforced, to be honest. Yeah, you can make people wear them to get in the doors, but you can't realistically monitor and enforce whether an entire stadium of people is masking throughout a three hour concert. The best protection at this point is vaccination and early treatment, same as many other respiratory infections.
@@thatjillgirl unfortunately vaccination rates are dropping and only have around a 50% efficacy. And they don’t prevent long covid. Also, you’re not wrong that enforcement would be nearly impossible but her asking/expecting fans to keep each other safe would likely lead to much more masking than what happened without any policy/expectations. She has a lot of influence over her fans, and if she offered eras branded respirators to each ticket holder which would be easy to provide within the cost of the tickets (imagine all the different ones for different eras?) I think it could have greatly decreased the spread. Anything is better than nothing.
Also no Covid precautions aren’t a complaint I have about just Taylor, but it’s something I think about more with her considering how it aligns with her previous political statements.
Taylor Swift is a performer! If she donates to certain causes people should be happy she does that.
It seems, from what I read. any organization that she supports. seems like they think she should married to it and if she doesn’t act like that, she’s just used them!
It’s absurd! TS doesn’t need to use any organization or show support for any organization for any reason other than the fact she wanted to !
People were making ridiculous demands of her when she started her tour.
Actually telling a 34 year old woman she needed to be promoting the LBGTQ community more in her concerts!
Some of her fans, some Swifties , writing an ope. letter to her regarding the Matty Healy deal telling her what they expected of her and what she needed to do to accomplish that was whacko!
Some journalist demanding and saying it’s her responsibility to talk more on LBGTQ issues at her concerts,
People are completely off their rocker demanding things of the biggest pop star in the planet during her TOUR!
People buy tickets to see her perform and sing.
That’s it!!!
Do people realize how many different organizations are out there that her fans are involved in. If she started to cater to just specific groups she would soon be bombarded with who knows how many request to also help their organizations. We would be here for who knows how long trying to list all the different types of NGO’s out their people are involved in.
The LBGTQ fans saying she hit more popular off the backs of the LBGTQ community!!
News flash…. TS was already huge before she ever started being verbal about anything . TS already had one of the most diverse team from dancers, truck drivers in her crew period years before she became verbal about anything !!!
It’s her responsibility and her mother’s responsibility, to do what they have to because she is in the high risk category!
It’s everyone else’s responsibility to do the same and make their personal decisions accordingly just like it should have been from the beginning of Covid. Not lock down everyone who wasn’t high risk!!!
There’s different levels of feminism!
Maybe all involved in feminism aren’t extreme feminists that this Bell Hooks is.
So if you believe in aspects of feminism you have d to be extreme. Ic you are t you are a reformist feminist?
White Classic Feminism? What does being white have to do with it? Sounds like Bell Hooks is an extreme activist who drags race into labeling people if they aren’t t acting like she thinks they should.
People need to get a grip!!!
Didn't protect Ana Benevides or the burn victims in Brazil, either.
Not huge fan of her but where she should donate it is not our business. And I don't see how her being white has to do with anything.
In terms of Taylor Swift speaking out about current events/human rights/world conflicts, etc: I've heard a lot of discourse specifically around silence being just as dangerous as opinion. So by saying nothing, she is complicit, she DOES hold these beliefs. Even IF, say, she's pro choice. If she said nothing, it's as good as being pro life. Regardless of how much we don't like it, her fans look to her for guidance. If a fan looks at Taylor and sees that she is staying silent about an issue they're questioning (or even playing her film in a country that is committing war crimes *cough cough*) what does that tell them? She's making a clear choice. I agree that it's best if she keeps the worst thoughts to herself, but regardless of what she does, as a public figure and a powerful white person, she has a huge impact.
Just as a note, she did speak up as pro-choice when Roe v Wade was overturned.
Largely I agree with you and I think that staying silent on things is a privileged choice that is actively made. As a counter point, she also has the potential and power to effectively dump a ton of grease onto a burning school if she is misinformed or wrong about something. At her level of influence, I think staying quiet about things you don’t understand at that point is the most responsible thing you can do.
@@missmusic4951 I know! Just using the example the Leena used
SAY ITTTT🇵🇸
@@Dancinglemon I see what you mean but staying quiet about things you don't understand should not be a permanent solution when you have all the resources to educate yourself and immense influence over millions.
when the eras tour was in brazil, there was a heat wave and a fan of hers died during her concert. people were not allowed to bring any water, even when the temperature was really high. there was another concert settled in the same city the next day, and she postponed the concert only one hour before it was supposed to start. the girl's family didn't get any financial support from taylor - they even had to ask for money from other fans to bring their daughter's body to her home city. she was 23 :(
one of the craziest days of my life. i was there with my 3 teenage nieces. i honestly don’t know how we all survived that day.
Oh my god :(
I don't want to discount her responsibility for what happened in Brazil. Regardless of the venues responsibilty her business should and does hold the overall responsibility for the loss of Benevides Machado's life, but from what I have read she did donate and reach out to and met the family. No clue how much see donated, but it seems clear that she did
I don't even mean this as a defence for Taylor, and it doesn't say anything about her morals or her as a person (it would be very bad press if she did nothing and her/her brand are smarter than that) but there was a level of action. It can never be enough, but something did happen
@@karol-xavier it was reallly that bad? what happened? How was the show in the end?
Its horrid. I cant believe she didnt give them any money.......at least publically?
imo, popstars and culture icons should lead by example not comments
A video that makes me proud to be part of the Gumption Club. Ever since Leena said "I wish Taylor Swift was a band" (in either a video or podcast, I don't remember), I've been thinking about that. I think that's the sentiment that best summarizes how I feel. Band names give you an easy and quick indicator to separate musicians' bodies of musical work and public facing actions from the individual people walking around and living lives that we don't actually know much about.
One of my frustrations about Taylor Swift is the whole backlash against "being a pick me girl". Like sure, "I'm not like other girls" is maybe not the healthiest mindset to have, but this backlash is just steamrolling over all the girls who have actively been hurt by other girls (who are hurt themselves by patriarcal standards but also have a part in enforcing those standards against others). Anyways, I find all the Taylor Swift stuff overwhelmingly white and not particularly appealing, personally, and while I think it's find and great if others find meaning it it, it's frustrating when there's a climate where someone can't even say they don't like a certain billionaire musician without being accused of being a "pick me" and of hating teenage girls and their interests. It's like choice feminism and eyeliner sharp enough to kill a man and if you criticise makeup well that just means you're ugly and your eyebrows aren't done, all over again.
Good point!! It seems like just another way femme ppl aren't allowed to be diverse and unique even within a feminist push for letting us exist
It‘s completely normal that not everybody will like certain things. Although Swift has many international fans. She writes from her own perspective most of the time (and she’s white of course ). But many people only criticise her (but not other billionaires), probably because she has such a big fanbase
It depends on how you’re stating your opinion. There is a difference between politely saying her music just doesn’t work for you personally and going out of your way to “yuck someone’s yum.”
@@mikaylaeager7942 True, but I also feel like there's a difference between being critical of an artist and "yucking someone's yum". You wouldn't be attacked for saying, idk, that Balzac just goes on and on to the point of boredom and maybe shouldn't have been paid for his writing by word count. Like if I said that no one would say I'm yucking Balzac's fan's yums. But I feel like we should be able to go beyond "it doesn't work for me personally", and still be allowed to have critical opinions? Like for example a thing I saw recently, people should be able to say that tortured poets department is clunky phrasing and sounds like a knock off dead poet's society, without it being taken as a personal attack, for instance? idk if that makes sense?
@@Blue-pb7kz The question you have to ask yourself is ‘Does it need to be said here and now?’
Would you say that to someone who is talking about how much they love Balzac with no context? No, you might say “I’m not really a fan of Balzac” and then they might ask you “oh really why?” Then you would explain, or they might say “oh I know he’s not for everyone but I love him so much.” That would be your queue to either let them express their joy or change the subject.
You don’t need to express your opinion to everyone every time. Sometimes it’s appropriate and sometimes it’s not.
I personally get this a lot as a fan of Marvel (mostly the comics but also the movies.) It’s something I like to talk about but people frequently feel the need to immediately tell me why they don’t like it. It’s always the same reasons too. “It’s juvenile” “it’s unoriginal” “it’s a soulless franchise responsible for the death of cinema and culture as we know it.” Ok… We can move on to something else, that’s fine. I don’t need to hear about how much you hate what I enjoy.
I was a little brat once when someone did that to me and then gave me an example of “real cinema” (Lord of the Rings) and I tore into all the ways LotR was juvenile and unoriginal even though I totally agree the LotR is a masterpiece of our generation. I was just really tired of being told I’m an idiot for enjoying something.
People stay quiet about many things because they made themselves dependent on others liking them and being part of the herd at almost any cost, and also due to their own internal need for validation, vanity and similar. There are so many more options for women then there ever were in the past but what do most of them do a whole lot of? - Obsessing over their image and pop stars and drowning in consumerism (fast fashion, fast make up, fast home goods etc).
for me i want ppl to speak up about a certain topic because i want to know weather or not i would still fell comfortable supporting them. i can’t separate art from artist cause i don’t think it’s possible in a world where we vote with our money, every day, by choosing who to make richer. reason why i feel very uncomfortable currently listening to her music cause she hasn’t spoken up about palestine. which makes me angry and disappointed. cause there are cases where money make a big fucking difference and choosing not to use them for good sends a clear message. ironically, she has so much money and fame that she has nothing to lose. ppl will support her no matter what she says or do.
i don’t want everyone to be a “politician”, an expert in global politics, an environmental activist. i just want them to care and realize that their actions have an impact (esp with that level of fame). literally begging them to care. and honestly that’s a low fucking bar.
So they have to speak up for your benefit and to assuage your feelings of guilt not for the sake of the actual cause?? What 😂
@@jessm96297 did u not see the part where i say that the money and fame those ppl have would actually make a big fucking difference? don’t put words into my mouth. also, if they don’t speak up then they don’t care, if they don’t care about a genocide then i’d rather give my money to someone else
Has she ever spoken up about international issues? And does she have a lot of fans in the Middle East? Especially in Israel? To me she mainly seems to have political influence in the US. And ain't nobody is suddenly going to vote for Voldemort just because she didn't speak up about Palestine. But I've heard the right-wing media is already framing her in some kind of conspiracy story. So, I think she doesn't want to risk anything in that kind of situation. And I doubt that she's well enough informed to feel like she has to speak up about it. That kind of news consumption is bad for people's mental health.
@@nehalilisays it would be really sad if she needed to have fans somewhere to care about the ppl there.
and in this case, you dont need to know years of history to know that what's going on is horrible beyond words. you just need a little compassion. you see the numbers and you should realize that carpet bombing a populated area and every hospital is bad. lastly, yes it's hard on mental health to see the news but you know whats harder? being killed or tortured.
Want to push back on some of your point about her being nice in terms of hanging out with fans and inviting them to her house. Does a celebrity owe that to her fans? Is not being an asshole enough or, to be a "nice celebrity," do those celebrities have to go above and beyond with those fan interactions? When are boundaries crossed? It all depends
100% agree
18:31 I think celebrity worship needs to end before we're ready to hear them discuss politics or if they do talk politics, people will blindly listen to them.
This has been happening for many decades
i have nothing against taylor, but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth the way she handled the death of a fan at her show in Brazil
excited but also bit apprehensive for this?!
Just here to say that I’m too Sexy is actually credited on Look What you made me do co-writers, I remember reading or watching a video of them thanking her because it made them so much money lol.
yes, there were lawyers from both teams involved in determining the royalties. the difference though for Olivia is that Right said fred came out and give good PR to acknowledge Taylor. Taylor never did that for Olivia and let the media ran with she’s a copier.
@@vgolf10@vgolf10 Probably bc Taylor gave credit right from the start, whereas Olivia and her team did so retroactively for multiple songs on SOUR (credit was given to Taylor, Paramore, and Miley, I believe, and all was done retroactively, after online discourse has started about the similarities.
@@theoriginal4ever7 that’s a fair point on the credit was give in retro, after release. There is no credit given to Miley, no songs sound like hers. only one song retro to Taylor for deja Vu, and only one song retro to Paramore for good 4 u. Still though, LWYMMD is much closer interpolation to I’m too sexy then deja vu is to Cruel summer - it’s just vocal delivery similarity. good 4 u does sound closer to Misery business tho in chord and melody.
"Yes, and" regarding flying: what I really want to see is a change in aerospace and our laws to push for the development, production, AND use of greener fuels and planes.
On a side note, can we talk about how stunning Leena's outfit is?
I am SO excited for this video. Also, loved the thumbnail art choice 😂
Really great video Leena! You made a great point that if she tours more cities, fewer people will make flights far from their hometown. The Swiftologist on youtube also made an excellent video about her billionaire status - pointing out the lack of philanthropic efforts, especially in the issues she publicly cares about (ex. Scholarships for young independent artists, Abortion funds, etc)
There is research about the "being part of a crowd" benefit. Basically one of the things that make people most happy and content is collective joy and collective sorrow. Mourning ceremonies, sports, fandom are all examples where we feel our togetherness our not aloneness and it helps our monkey brains feel safe and good. I also think this is why religion is so powerful for many people. Built in community and support and collective sharing of pains and pleasures.
Do you watch the swiftologist? Good thoughtful content there from a fans perspective but also criticism
Hi leena! Richard and Fred Fairbrass and Rob Manzoli are all credited as writers on lwymmd, I think it was all an intentional, fully above board as an interpolation from the get go (no back tracking or in retrospect crediting) but I'm still on the fence about her sueing Olivia, there's speculation credit was given voluntarily in a panic, jack antonoff said it came as a surprise to him, but that doesn't mean it didn't still come from taylor herself behind the scenes, so who really knows. Hayley Williams also was surprised about getting credit for the misery business inspo, but the cowriter josh farro was on a podcast/radio show kinda bragging about it, so perhaps he initiated, and the cruel summer credit followed as a precaution? I fear we'll never know, but the radio silence from Olivia ever since is certainly something which is sad 😔
WOoo that's actually a relief to hear, I had no idea, don't know how I missed that! Yes, agreed, I do think it was after some pressure, I've linked a video in the description breaking it down x
@@leenanorms you also missed that there's no evidence that taylor sued olivia like not to attack you but many of the taylor 'crimes' you were assessing weren't actually substantiated by anything other than narrative by people who don't like her
@@nk0314this! Would love to see some actual proof and references… court cases are public record
I think it's important to note that we don't know whether Taylor knew about or initiated the Olivia credits. It's really easy to feel strongly about it one way or the other, but we just don't know. I will say that Taylor making a point of looking really into/supportive of Olivia's grammy performance is meaningful though. It doesn't look like either camp wants a feud.
@@nk0314 That's so true. For instance, Taylor only sent the cease-and-desist letter to the college student tracking her flights after she sold her second plane, and the account was still tracking it as if it were her. I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners asked her to take care of this.
Leena, this is the first time I'm seeing your content and I'm so happy I've found it! This was such a well-thought-out video that acknowledged the nuances of these issues. I'm so curious to see what else you have to say!
I generally agree with most of what you've said here. The one thing I will say is that she sent legal stuff to that twitter account right after someone was arrested multiple times in a row for stalking her and got pretty close to her to my understanding. I think it's fair to have a twitter account that tracks her jet usage/etc, but I do not think they should be publicizing her location. I know it's publicly available information, but there's no need to further publicize locations, and I'm sure it's pretty terrifying to have someone sharing your location widely when you have dangerous and persistent stalkers. Some people say in response that she has tons of security and tons of money and she'll be fine. And yes, she probably will, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend no celebrity with security and money has ever been physically attacked or k*lled by a stalker.
TL;DR: Track people's emissions if you want, but don't publicize their location if you can help it, especially if it's known they have stalkers.
from "dear reader" i interpret: she will never be our queer icon or the political activist we want her to be, she will never give up the safety of hiding in plain sight. or not for a long time. we readers may find meaning in and behind the words she writes, but we shouldn't use her as our "guiding light" because she can never be fully and truly herself in the public eye, nor can she be the beacon we look to
"you wouldn't take my word for it if you knew who was talking": she has so much guilt and shame and fear around who she is, what she does, the secrets she keeps. and we know how carefully she constructs her public persona, we know she's a people pleaser to death. speaking up about her beliefs or living authentically (not just in loving cats and being generally nice) would expose her to even more scrutiny and criticism. anything taylor does always presents her in a way, and i don't think she would ever put herself in the line of fire at the cost of her self-worth. so she hides in ambiguity and certainty. she can have the conservative moms AND the queer kids, so long as she doesn't pick a side, so long as she doesn't throw her innermost secrets and insecurities and shame to the wolves. she won't ever try to aim at the devil anymore, because there is always the chance that she'll miss. she will always miss to someone.
and it's sad but i've found my peace with it. i try to not put her on a pedestal anymore and i try to fight my own battles. i will still be her reader, but she won't be my guiding light. i can be my own
good joab
@@luabeth7520I think you make a really good point and so did Leena in the video. She’s well within her right to not be outspoken on things, I think the fact she plays the centre on a lot of the stuff gives her that universal commercial appeal (and why I’m not a fan of hers) but as was said, we don’t actually know her or what she believes. We aren’t her friends, we know what’s put out there and the parasocial relationship that people have with her but nothing about HER. I’m willing to give her some grace for seemingly being a decent person and I imagine at her astronomical level of fame, speaking out about some topics could do so much more harm than good.
shes not queer tho, why would she be a queer icon in the first place, and exactly its dangerous for her to speak about certain things
@@DancinglemonI personally don't think that people should have an inherent right to profit off the suffering of others and then decline to even comment on that suffering.
I get where you are coming from when you say she didn't have a huge impact on politics even when she spoke out and encouraged people to vote. But as we know, Swifties are very dedicated to her. They find the easter eggs and read into everything she says. Its all fun and games- however...as an ethical person, she should be speaking out against things that are wrong in politics or in the world. We have a Gen0cide that is being committed right in our faces. And honestly, Ive loved Taylor Swift for years but it is so disheartening to know she hasnt said a word about it. People do listen to her. She has so many young fans and some fans that might not know whats happening overseas/what the USA is funding. Imagine if she condemned the killing of innocent people.....is that really so controversial? and you might be thinking "Oh people know that"-- no they don't. The government is literally trying to shut TikTok down because of how many people are getting educated on whats happening in Palestine. So why can't she use her influence to LITERALLY save people? Is it her job to save people? No. but will it cost her anything to save them? maybe some sponsors, but as a billionaire, does that matter?
knowing shes anti trump and a Democrat is enough information for me re her politics. She has Palestinian and Jewish friends, not just fans
I have been a massive Swiftie for ten years and I love this! I would be fascinated to hear your thoughts on Taylor vs. the public eye now TTPD is out. Other thoughts:
- Her parents are investment bankers. While the capitalism is the thing I feel worst about, it feels sometimes like She Was Always Going To Be This Way, because her family influenced her to equate money as success.
- The cease and desist she sent about her jet useage was for instant-tracking. Her publicist put out a statement along the lines of "Taylor is happy to have her carbon emissions and flights published, however due to the very real threat of stalking she faces we request a 3 days delay in this data being published." - which I can understand more.
I loved the video the only part I would disagree with however is what you said about it not being the fans place to make her do better. Especially if we go by the logic that she is the elected by her fans person with power. That's just the democracy. Also the fandom is the only way to make celebrities take better actions that they normally wouldn't like lower their carbon emission as an example and in grand skim of things it impacts the whole planet. Also well yeah fans and their money make the celebrities the people with power, so in the way of expecting somebody to then not spend the money on a cause that's just anti-human imo fandom should police what their faves openly support and the actions that are just wrong for environment. I am not talking about things like sb's private life or what they are wearing or what their private political beliefs are as long as they aren't harming people of course. Just unfair business practices and such. Especially if you build your brand on being aware, kind and conscious and not taking actions towards these goals. If your selling point for fans is that then it would only be natural for your fans to hold you up to that standard. Not in a toxic way of course, but there are ways to do it like speaking about it and raising awareness. ❤
Edit: Just wanted to add that what you said about the concert and the sense of community concerts give us reminded me a lot of going to church? I was catholic and the masses kind of have the same psychological effect I suppose and here again believing in something shouldn't make us unable to criticise is like being a part of church shouldn't make us unable to judge what it's doing, because then we end up with people abusing the power we give them as a community and betraying the trust they crafted in out minds. 😅
i don’t really agree with the democracy idea for celebrities though. it’s not like taylor promised to be a an ethical anti-capitalist and people bought her music on that condition and got betrayed. people like her and her music and that made her successful. of course not supporting her is voting with your coin but i think “policing” her maybe is too far? depends how you do it i guess. critiquing her use of private jets or merch ethics is super fair but is that policing? just wondering out loud. also i do
fear of fans fee entitled to tell her what to do the line where it is and isn’t appropriate is blurry. like the backlash from her dating matty healy extended to wanting her to be put in a conservator ship. what does policing entail and when is it appropriate?
Hmm. Fascinating to see your take on this. Her music doesn't interest me (not my taste - and how frustrating is it that I always have to add this), but I am always interested in fandoms, the artists they follow and the stories and questions they raise. So, thank you for the thoughts!
I remember when she came to Amsterdam I saw people buy tickets for €800 or more. It was so outrageously expensive that it was on the news and it started questions on how ethical those ticket prices were. Even people who couldn't really afford it could've bought those tickets, because they were (potentially delusional) fans... And I don't think the local areas in the NL benefitted from that... I think it caused more people to be in debt to be honest...
Lately I keep saying Taylor Swift is like McDonalds. Successful business. Yummy burgers, constantly updating, not necessarily innovating. Impossible not to know. In every city. Impossible to avoid. Not all that nutritious or carefully made. Guilty pleasure. She's an excellent business woman. She has this many hits just by the law of averages because her output is so overwhelmingly everywhere.
Wait that’s so accurate lmao
I've been listening to Taylor Swift's music since her first album. We are about the same age and, like a lot of young women, I always found her songs relatable and feel like I grew up with her music. Despite that, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of coverage she gets now and the weird obsession her fans/the media have with her and her personal life. Despite liking her songs all these years, I never followed or cared about her personal life, never knew who she dated, etc. The idolization is weird, too.
I've never bought merch from her because with those prices her clothing should be cotton or wool but they're literally 100% acrylic and polyester. Also cheap looking notebooks and knicknack for so much is ridiculous
Leena I almost certainly agree with whatever you’re about to say about this private jet billionaire but I’m also addicted to those lyrics so I’m not ready
I love it when I know Leena is going to singlehandedly change my mind about something 😂
mood
On the "suing Olivia Rodrigo" front - Rodrigo actually got called out/sued for copying Paramore in a song on 'Sour', and then Rodrigo's team essentially seem to have decided it would be easier if they gave credits to everyone who Rodrigo pulled influence from to make a song to avoid potentially more suing e.g. Swift and Antonoff for 'Cruel Summer' as that bridge was an inspiration for the bridge in 'Deja Vu'. Think the whole music crediting/suing stuff in recent decades has become really difficult because everything influences everything else, so where do you draw the line - it's really interesting to get into the minutiae of haha
the cruel summer credit happened first, before the paramore credit though? (i remember from the time but wiki has it for verification)
Perhaps but it's not like they spontaneously gave her the credit she was suing Olivia her team...
Paramore actually didn’t sue Olivia! I remember when Hayley found out they were being credited, she was surprised but very flattered. I remember her posting about it on her story. There is also no evidence of Taylor suing Olivia. But of course, we can’t know what happened behind the scenes and if Taylor asked for credit in private
There's inspiration and there's direct interpolation. Olivia straight up copied the piano chords from one of Taylor's songs and then her team (not necessarily Olivia herself) was stupid enough to think no one would take issue in this era of music labels and their paranoid chokehold for credit/permission.
@@missmusic4951 ? if you’re talking about the interpolation from NYD that was credited from the start though, i’m not aware of any direct interpolation in DV
All I know is that my local Whole Foods had to install a lock on their toilets because so many Swifties descended on the place to pee when TS was in town, they overran the place and used up all the toilet paper and soap, including the surplus in the janitor closet. And they did not buy anything in the store before or after. What's the old saw? "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans"
50 minutes of deeply interesting, nuanced thoughts on someone I’m positively fed up with. And I enjoyed it! Quite an accomplishment Leena 😊
Hahah aw thank you tht means a lot
Thank you for such a balanced, nuanced take! A lot of takes I constantly see in the comments sections about TS always remind me of your video from a while ago about people using blanket statements to make kinda weak political points. Like just spam commenting "There’s no such thing as an ethical billionaire 😤" under anything about Taylor Swift is kinda useless when... most big celebrities are billionaires. Shes barely even the richest, Rhianna is richer than her.
One thing I have found fascinating is how she's (complicatedly) the first to become a billionaire through her music career alone. In that, she doesn’t have a Skims or a Fenty or celebrity perfume (she did once decades ago but its been long since discontinued). And her owning the full rights to her masters undoubtedly played a huge part in that- it didn't surprise me at all that she ticked over into the billionaire club the moment 1989 (TV) was released. And if a mass proportion of her wealth is on the popularity and success of her music, in an age when the majority of music is consumed through streaming (which artists get a fairer split on Spotify, thanks to Taylor way back) It surely becomes profit generated through a product (her music) that... doesnt need to be physically produced, there are (in this particular respect) no factory workers to exploit to produce her millions. Her songs can be streamed infinitely.
All of that to say, I think she's a really interesting case study for what happens within this capitilistic hellhole when artists fully own the rights to their work, and puts an economic metric on the extent people and society actually really fucking does value art in a world where many in power (Torys) will try and tell you that art "doesnt make money".
Wonderfully nuanced video !
Could you link that study about syncing heartbeats in a theater because that's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. Again, great video ! ❤
I feel like we can both be angry about the collosal scale of fossil fuel fields, and also at how irresponsible Taylor is being with her flights. I understand you were trying to put the amount into context, but I think that the comparison between her flights and fossil fuel fields is irrelevant as she is partly the reason for them going ahead. Frequent flyers are the market that demands the product. I think we should be aware and care about both things, rather than use one to dismiss the other? Though I do understand that being someone as famous as Taylor swift does mean flights, or private jets are somewhat necessary due to the frenzy her being creates just existing. Can you imagine trying to drive anywhere or go anywhere with that many people flocking around you constantly. So I do feel that's a valid reasons for flying, however the amount she does fly is very irresponsible. And I think sending a ceasefire and desist to the person tracking her flight records maybe demonstrates that she doesn't want to be called out or criticised for this? I don't know, I'm not sold 🤷♀️
Part of US trademark law is that you have to protect the trademark- you cannot allow anyone to use it if you want to keep it. That’s why taylor has to shut down people profiting off her trademarks like etsy accounts.
True!!
I was going to say the same thing
Yes! Olivia flat out said that she wanted the bridge of Deja vu to sound like cruel summer. If Taylor/her team didn’t uphold that copyright than anyone else could make a blatant rip-off and get away with it.
I learned that from John and Hank Green. They chose not to trademark DFTBA because to stop Hobby Lobby from using it would also mean they'd have to stop Emma With An Etsy Shop from using it. I don't think most people like that the law is that way, but that's how it is.
Commenting to push this up, because it's an important point that many people don't know about.
Thank you Leena for making this video for me specifically 😂 (just as TS surely writes songs just for me specifically)
Your experience working at that right winged newspaper is spot on, like I've met so many people who will smile at you, be nice to you in person, and then later on find out they have horrible beliefs that oppress others, thwart equality, and drive hatred in this world. It's disorienting, but the most valid thing - because after some time, those beliefs show up in their behavior, and you find out, they're really not that nice at all
I have SO MUCH to say as a longterm Swiftia and anticapitalist climate advocate, thank you for making this nuanced video! A few points for discussion:
her wealth (as described by Forbes) is basically half the worth of catalogue ($500 mil), half from streaming and touring ($500 mil), and a bit from real estate ($125 mil). The worth of her music catalogue, I would probably end up saying is one of the more ethical ways to achieve this evaluation. Real estate seems excessive, but mostly she actually spends time at these houses, as do her family and friends and it is hard to sell places of this value, so while it's not ethical, it's not exploitative specifically. Streaming and touring is full of much more ethical problems, from many vinyl album variants, to ridiculous tour prices, to the MERCH (we need more transparency and after that ethical production), these sources of wealth are based on a lot of exploitation, though it is good that she isn't hoarding all of the wealth from the tour, she pays everyone on tour well above industry standards.
FWIW, vinyl variants and merch aren't under her control, it's her label being just as bad as every other major label. Short of starting her own label (which will prob happen eventually, but I think she has her hands full running her own tours), there are areas where she really doesn't have much pull, especially if she wants to own her music (which indicates how fucked up the industry is). She used to have much more control over merch until she had to give it away in 2019 to own her masters.
Her real ticket prices were reasonable for getting to see the biggest music act on the planet, in her prime, for a three hour show. Ticketmaster and scalpers are what make the prices skyrocket to truly heinous numbers. Nobody is going to see The Beatles in the '60s, Michael Jackson in the '80s, Madonna in the early '90s, or Britney Spears in 2002 without paying a hefty price.
That's a great point about half her net worth consisting of her music catalog. People pay millions for famous paintings, but we would never criticise the artist for making something that people consider so valuable.
What I'd love to know more about, and I think this is where a lot of the recent controversies (e.g. suing people) come from, is who is responsible for what? What's the label's doing and what is hers? What is she legally/contractually obliged to do and say, and what is she choosing freely?
We'll never know some of those distinctions I'm sure, but more transparency would be great.
Thanks for breaking that down. I hadn't even considered that her music itself (as opposed to the sales of the music/tours/merch) was part of the valuation, although in retrospect it seems obvious.
best taylor take i've seen on the internet thus far
r/SwiftlyNeutral type beat
I still cant understand what makes her so popular. Among the top pop female artists, she just seems perfectly basic. She never does something groundbraking or really artistic or risky.
Maybe that's the thing. The thing that is the most average in every way is the one with the widest appeal
or maybe people enjoy something specific about her and her music, say the same way there has been mass appeal for any artist
Really interested to hear your views- i def think ts is someone who should be critiqued, but that largely the criticisms will be drowned out by her supporters. Her art is worthy of love & fandom, but celebs have to understand the power of a fanbase, esp one that big
I disagree we don't know "the person". She is very unaware of how self-aware she actually is. People present their 'true selves' via their behaviours and words. She tries to hide it with a veneer of charm/charity.
If you watch enough interviews/videos, and really assess the patterns/motivations of her behaviour, business practices and words (and really *listen* to what she is saying) it reveals A LOT about who she is as a person - e.g. even when complimenting others, she compliments herself through her association with them.
Would recommend the guardian podcast on Swift called 'Why do so many Americans believe the Taylor Swift and Joe Boden conspiracy?'. I think in the past I'd dismissed her potential political influence, maybe because I'm not a fan and so can't quite comprehend the enormity of her following, but the purported stats for how many voters would base their vote on her's is astounding. I feel like she has such a large fanbase now that, if she did hold liberal/leftist views, she could state that and still be incredibly successful, so it's interesting that she doesn't. I think it's worth stating just how much bigger a deal she is now than during the previous election cycle, even though she was huge then. The Eras tour and everything that goes along with it has brought her to ridiculous and, as you rightly say, 'Elvis level' heights.
I want to push back on the stadiums comment. A lot of stadiums in the US are built using bonds that are basically debt for the urban centers, and urban centers in this country 1) are disproportionately comprised of lower income and vulnerable folks and 2) struggle to pay for basic infrastructure that their residents need to survive. Having huge crowds come out to the stadiums help cities recoup their massive investments. Now do I think stadiums are a good land use as an urban planner? No. But the investments have already been made. Love your perspectives but this falls short from the American context.
Also, our stadiums that host concerts are usually sports stadiums that *are* used year round and regularly to host major artists and concerts. Ie in New Orleans, we use the SuperDome all the time for Saints games, Beyoncé came last fall, and Bad Bunny is coming next month. Taylor Swift is part of that consistent seasonal rotation that is very very very unlike your Olympics example.
19:41 unrelated, but I'd love a video about working with people whose politics strongly oppose yours. Currently in that situation myself and I'm not always sure what to do, so I'd love some insight on how to handle it!
Maybe I'm in too deep but factual errors about what Taylor Swift has or has not done make it hard for me to really engage with communities that try to criticize her, even though I'm very open to using her actions/her ability to command all of our attention as a springboard for discussing systemic issues. Like, she never sued Olivia Rodrigo. I don't agree with her recieving writing credits on Olivia's song deja vu, but we don't know whether those credits were requested or proactively offered, let alone whether there was any real threat of legal action motivating those writing credits. And if commentors on this video don't know where she stands on abortion rights, I feel like they very obviously haven't been paying attention. None of this is to say that she's a perfect person or should be discussed as if she's above any and all critique, or that we as leftists shouldn't question and challenge any loyalty or allegiance we feel to a woman who cannot offer us the same to us as individuals due to the sheer scale of her business enterprise and whose class interests are diametrically opposed to ours, but don't we care about the truth? Do we need to invent reasons why she might secretly be nastier than her track record of public statements and behavior indicates? I personally think it's enough to understand that she's a flawed and fallible human being who is deeply embedded in and invested in the maintenance of systems I find unjust. I hold that truth at the same time as I hold the truth that her art has meant a lot to me throughout my life and that I find her personal narrative as a public figure by and large charming and sympathetic. Caring deeply about Taylor Swift's art, having empathy for her as a human, and enjoying some celebrity gossip from time to time while being a radical leftist is part of what makes *me* a flawed and fallible human being and I think that's fine.
I'm not familiar with her music, but i don't think you can become a billionaire and be a nice person and that is it. Most of us can't even imagine how much money that is, you could live a good life without working another day with maybe 10 millions and that in US/EU, here in the third world you could do it with one a
and still have to share.
I think Taylor knows that involving politics isn't necessarily a good business thing for her and that she doesn't have the influence on politics that you might expect her to have.
AS A SWIFTIE AND NEENIE (??!) I’VE NEVER CLICKED SO FAST
NEENIE!!!!! (???)
@@anawsomehuman3064 AHAHAHAHA OH NOOOOO 😂 my adhd is showing 🙃 I was so over excited for the video I mashed up leena’s name 😂 and I was so proud of myself and everything!! I was like oh that’s chaotic but cute, sure why not.. and now.. now I realise my error 😅 I am a twat 😂
@@anawsomehuman3064We're the Gumption Club. Sorry, there's no one word for us.
@@KAIMAOFFICIAL NOnoNONOonNO don't apologise i love it i was just confused 😭
What do you think about the new album?
Love this video. I used to be a Swifty, but I stopped putting celebs on a pedestal tbh. I feel like having expectations from celebs is just setting yourself up for dissapointment.
that doesnt mean you have to dislike her music bro, you can still be a casual listener, like me
@@aidanraine13 Taylor speaks about feminism and LGBTQ rights etc. through her art or in interviews often. She has portrayed herself as someone who cares about these issues. It's one of the reasons I liked her. But I now realize that her activism extends only to the point where it makes her look good in the mainstream. For instance, she remains silent on the ongoing Gaza massacre. She didn't even sign her name in the Artists4Ceasefire letter that many celebs signed and it's the least she could have done.
I see this as a lack of humanity.
We constantly say that "celebs are human" so why can't we expect them to have a humane response to historic tragedies?
And if I wanted to hear music from someone without humanity, I'd just listen to A.I. generated music.
Now, I'd much rather listen to artists like Hozier, Declan McKenna, etc. who have shown their humanity during one of our age's biggest atrocity.
@@aidanraine13sorry, got a bit long winded but that's how I feel about Taylor now.
It's easier to imagine our musicians becoming politicians than it is to imagine our politicians becoming musicians
you can't be serious the private jets don't have an impact. people are out there eating less meat, showering shorter. trying everything we can to cut our carbon footprint and someone's personal jet doesn't matter??!
Comparing how Taylor treats her fans to how a new boyfriend treats you is a super weird comparison. She creates music, we enjoy it and purchase it. That's our whole relationship
I think it's an interesting comparison. It's obviously referring to the parasocial part that's beyond the music.... plenty of artists make music that we enjoy. But she's fostered a real relationship with thousands of fans that involves real-life actions like having them over, having one-on-one conversations, baking cookies together, etc. I get the comparison to a "new boyfriend" because it's real, and it's not only music, but it is a bit shallow when compared with deeper real-life relationships.
Not really when a portion of her fans harasses her exes, speculates about them seeded by Taylor lyrics and ambiguity, feel animosity towards other artists or celebrities who are supposed "enemies" of Taylor... for many people it goes way beyond listening to music you like
I also think that people believe that Taylor should speak up nowadays and judge her for not doing so out of frustration that a person with so much power does not use their position to speak against the systems that be that are literally causing g3nocide in other countries with their tax dollars…. But she obviously won’t or can’t, maybe because she isn’t “knowledgeable” in these subjects but I suspect more because she herself is a High Priestess of Capitalism and Liberalism. Speaking out against these values would be her personal downfall and honestly probably won’t make much of a difference.
Hey, unrelated to the video but I really want to tell you about a book I read about climate change recently and don't have any other social media. So just in case you see this and are looking for books for your book club it's called "The weight of nature" by Clayton Page Aldern and is about the neurological effect that climate change has on our minds from the way memory affects our perception of climate to how heat interacts with our emotions and direct effect of specific neurotoxins on our brains becoming more common with climate change.
I’ve seen people say she could get a ceasefire to happen with one instagram post - I think people overestimate her political power. Yes it would be brilliant if she spoke up, and yes she is a tad cowardly for not doing so, but I don’t think she can bring about the consequences people think she can
She's the nicest of the narcissistic psychopaths 👉🥺👈 🎀💁🏼♀️
As someone who is NOT a Taylor Swift fan, I just sat through 43 minutes of this video because I AM a fan of yours and I knew you would pose some good non-biased points. Loved that. My husband and I (both in our 30s) love to hate on Taylor but we also have to admit that she is a bit of a phenomenon for our generation. For what reasons, we may all disagree. I feel as though she does write songs that she knows will resonate with a wide audience but in my opinion her lyrics do not have a lot of depth. I do not think of her as a poet at all. She writes to sell records. An example of a singer/song writer who I believe is writing for the art and love and soul, is Marie Siou. She, I believe is a true poet. If you give her a listen, I am sure you’ll sense the difference. But look, I get it. I get the love for the community built around her music. I also think that people should be able to enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy. Personally, I don’t like her music, so it’s easy for me to not support her and her lifestyle. Which, I do believe is detrimental to the environment and just because she seems like a “nice person” does not give her a pass. Like you said, no one accidentally becomes a billionaire. You have to actively step on people to do so. And honestly, anyone who charges that much money for their concert tickets is an asshole. I also have to push back on the poet laureate comparison. Taylor swift is to lyric writing as Rupi Kaur is to poetry, in my opinion.
The actual ticket prices were reasonable when you're talking about seeing the biggest music act in the world for three hours (expensive, obviously, but not insane given the size of the show and the ridiculous level of demand), the ones who jacked up prices to like tens of thousands of dollars were scalpers largely enabled by Ticketmaster. They say people don't accidentally become a billionaire, which is largely true, but she's the only one who's done it on the value of her discography and touring alone, and she's known for paying her employees incredibly well. On the list of which billionaires need to pay for their crimes against humanity, she's at the bottom tbh.
@@missmusic4951 I just checked current ticket prices and I would not call them reasonable. In Miami, Florida ticket prices are between 1,000 and 6,000 per ticket. Absolutely not reasonable. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter how she became a billionaire. What matters is that she is one and what is she going to do with that. I do not believe that anyone deserves that amount of money. No matter how “nice” or “hard working” they are. Sure, she pays it forward to those who work for her and some of her fans….those who have helped her amass her wealth. I would love my fans too, if they made me a billionaire. Just another way to craft that beloved public image. Remember, she is a business woman. What about the rest of the world, though? Now, she has a responsibility to give that money to those who can truly benefit. You can be a fan of hers and still admit that no one should be a billionaire. Also, where is the outrage over the fact that her merch is made in sweat factories and of low quality material which will most likely end up in the landfill? We should still be holding her to a higher standard and not giving her a pass simply because you like her music and think she is a nice person.
45 minute Taylor Swift video?!! What a treat! Also amazing pictures all throughout the video!