Both plain old evil villains and sympathetic villains, but my favorite is when sympathetic villains are done well. In more realistic world settings, the sympathetic villains work more since IRL people who do bad things rarely some I am bad because I am bad person.
The real thing is IRL, the bad guys because they are bad people are utterly convinced they're the good guys even as they destroy lives around them for their own gain.
@@freedantheeternal most people who have commit crimes are not actually bad people but people who have done bad things. Your black and white thinking really shows how myopic your world view is.
@@freedantheeternal nah most criminals are not really bad people, just people who did something bad. The outlier is what you said. Take people who join gangs they are not out here hey I want to hurt people. They are out here without many options in life. Which is shown when you invest in a community such as education, after school programs kids don't join gangs.
I do agree the chatter who said the issue with sympathetic villain is they're too hard to write. Coupled that with the fact that people are very passionate about the good, well written ones and you get a LOT of failed attempts trying to mimic the famous examples. The concept itself is good, it's just the gap between popularity and execution makes them seem lazy and derivative.
@@PotionSmeller it being hard to write is not really the issue. As I said those who are well done are my favorite type of villain. The villain that is evil because they are evil are too cartoonish. And yeah, that is easy to write. But that doesn't mean they are good villains. And get lame no matter how well written. Inserting IRL. Take the people US fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many of those people joined those groups not because they are evil and want to do evil things. Vast majority joined because the collateral damage US cause and they were not happy about their friends and family dying at the hands of the people claiming to help them. And they want to defend their land from the invading force. Signed as US Veteran that played in the sand box who can understand why people fought against us and joined those groups. The world is not black and white. That is why I like sympathetic villains over cartoonish evil villains.
One of the reasons I still love the evil ending of Dark Messiah of Might an Magic. Context: The story has you trying for most of the game to stop an evil cult from releasing an ancient immortal demon lord from a magical prison he was sealed in. But said demon lord also planted a succubus in the protagonist's head, trying to get him to actually release the seal. Also said demon lord is the protagonist's father. Good ending the seal is restored, succubus purged from protag's mind, and he marries a woman he has zero chemistry with and lives happily ever after, or so the fadeout claims. Evil ending breaks the seal, demon lord is released, and you'd expect a typical "You did your job now you're useless to me" kind of betrayal, right? But no, demon dad welcomes the protagonist with open arms, tells him that the succubus planted in his head was also chosen to be the protagonist's future queen, and now you're all going to go conquer the world together as a happy evil family.
@@st.haborym It is, but to be fair, I'm pretty sure the evil ending was meant to be the canon one, to set up new big bads for future Might and Magic games. Unfortunately, the series was pretty much dead already by the time Dark Messiah was made and never recovered.
They were but they were also brother and sister. And 1 was more powerful than the other. I was sad to see hex basically sacrifice herself to end the cron virus vs daemon but it brought a temporary peace to mainframe. I didn’t like how reboot ended on a cliffhanger w/ megabyte taking control. Also they tried to continue or remake reboot and it was not good. At all.
I like both unadulterated evil characters (Joker) and complex villians with motives other than just "I'm evil for the sake of it" (Griffith, Big Boss).
Soul Edge is an evil sword that turned Siegfried into Nightmare by possessing him and using his body to steal thousands of souls by preying on his wish to resurrect his father (who he accidentally killed).
More snarling evil villains that you don't have to sift through a hundred flashbacks to appreciate would be great. Feels like we've been made to look for the only good in them rather than properly appreciate the bad in them.
I mostly agree, but I also like it when they have moments where the "Evil Guy, who is evil for evil's sake" has normal moments. Like... It's a bit cartoonish, but I love it when they show villains on off days or doing their morning routine. Why? I think it's funny. It really reminds you that, while they're not heroes, they also can't be perma-seated in their shadowy throne, ominously turned away from the camera while they pet their obligatory fluffy, white cat. Sometimes they need to get up, take a walk, grab some food and a cup of coffee, do some light reading, and THEN they go do bad guy stuff. Hell, most of the time, they don't even show villains doing research or battle planning. I don't want sympathetic villains, I want properly fleshed out capital EVIL villains. I clicked on this video because I saw Skeletor in the thumbo. Skeletor is hands down one of my favorite characters in animation because he's just a bad dude that make AMAZING noises. "Niiah! Curse you, He-Man!" That being said, I have no issues with sympathetic villains. Cartoonishly evil villains are great, but they're rarely threatening. I don't think they're meant to be. Villains with an agenda, however, are tangible to some extent. A hint of relatable ideology can do a lot to really cement the villain's threat. "I'm going to destroy the world because I'm evil and I can" is very unserious compared to "I will destroy humanity... for we are a blight upon this earth who take... and destroy everything that our greedy fingers can touch. An evolutionary reset is in order, and I shall be the arbiter of the end.". There's this weird affect that happens where the more... intangible something seems, the less threated we are by it and visa versa. That's why sympathetic villains work, and it's why you don't see cartoonishly evil villains as much anymore. However, I still do like a bad bad guy.
Guisarme from 7th prince is a really great villain in that sense. Just pure evilness and really powerful. Like a shadow, the brighter, better, and the more likable Jade is, Guisarme becomes more dislikable to the readers for ruining such a good person.
I like the villain that goes with you throughout your entire party but gradually as he sees all the injustice going around and probably loses a loved one he finally snaps and turns into the final boss thinking they are doing humanity a favor without realizing they are hurting the very world they are trying to save or change for the better. It's a interesting way to write a relatable villain as we all have felt at some point in our lives that society have failed everyone including us and have wanted to change it for the betterment of everyone but the villain in their broken mind when they had no one they could turn to for help is just doing what they think is best for everyone even if it robs them of free will. Like gradually seeing someone who you are journeying with gradually going down a spiral into a despair and eventually becoming the final boss feels way more realistic than how other villains are made. Though the evil for the sake of being evil actually does exist irl
Personaly, I like both kinds of villains. The problem is for every Max "Magneto" Eisenhardt, (Can you guess my favort sympithetic villian?) who is a man who survived a planed extermination of his people once, and will go to *nigh-unreasonable* langths to insure it *never happens again...* We get 100 half baked versions of him with worse attrocities, and far worse reasoning. This is why I love the "Evil for the sake of it" villians. It's hard to screw up Zargothrax, master of nightmares, Keeper of celestial flame of Abernathy. Is their reasoning not great? Yes, but screw you! I cast summon plauge-bear! That said, my favoret pure-evil character would probibly be ether Dr. Hans Volter from Killing Floor 2, for what lore bits we get for him... Or any demonic BBEG, you can't screw-up a litteral being of pure evil!
I'm probably not too good with the whole "sympathetic villain" thing. I've got at least one main villain in my lineup that's more to get the reaction of "Okay, yeah, I understand where you're coming from. ...But you're still an asshole and I'd rather see your bullshit plans fail." Another in my lineup is obnoxious on purpose...but also incredibly dangerous. Obnoxious in attitude and supposed "superiority," acting like a mobster rather than a military general. Dangerous in actions due to having prisoners and death row inmates in his forces as cannon fodder hidden in plain sight...and not being afraid to fuck over his own people on top of people his nation conquered.
My favorite "sympathetic" villain was Oersted from Live A Live. Just a (Probably already flawed) man who had the entire world turn against him, so in turn he turned against the entire world.
I didn't like what MCU did to Thanos. Thanos was super powerful and he wanted to kill because he was evil and he loved death (literally). MCU turned him into someone with evil methods but tried to make it sound like he had a point. No... No, he didn't have a point. At all.
I honestly laughed out loud when they exlained his motivation and tried to make it sound all deep and insightful instead of the silly shit that it is, magneto on the otherhand one of the best symphatetic villains and redemption arcs
Both plain old evil villains and sympathetic villains, but my favorite is when sympathetic villains are done well. In more realistic world settings, the sympathetic villains work more since IRL people who do bad things rarely some I am bad because I am bad person.
The real thing is IRL, the bad guys because they are bad people are utterly convinced they're the good guys even as they destroy lives around them for their own gain.
@@freedantheeternal most people who have commit crimes are not actually bad people but people who have done bad things.
Your black and white thinking really shows how myopic your world view is.
@@freedantheeternal nah most criminals are not really bad people, just people who did something bad. The outlier is what you said.
Take people who join gangs they are not out here hey I want to hurt people. They are out here without many options in life. Which is shown when you invest in a community such as education, after school programs kids don't join gangs.
I do agree the chatter who said the issue with sympathetic villain is they're too hard to write. Coupled that with the fact that people are very passionate about the good, well written ones and you get a LOT of failed attempts trying to mimic the famous examples.
The concept itself is good, it's just the gap between popularity and execution makes them seem lazy and derivative.
@@PotionSmeller it being hard to write is not really the issue. As I said those who are well done are my favorite type of villain.
The villain that is evil because they are evil are too cartoonish. And yeah, that is easy to write. But that doesn't mean they are good villains. And get lame no matter how well written.
Inserting IRL.
Take the people US fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many of those people joined those groups not because they are evil and want to do evil things. Vast majority joined because the collateral damage US cause and they were not happy about their friends and family dying at the hands of the people claiming to help them. And they want to defend their land from the invading force.
Signed as US Veteran that played in the sand box who can understand why people fought against us and joined those groups.
The world is not black and white. That is why I like sympathetic villains over cartoonish evil villains.
One of the reasons I still love the evil ending of Dark Messiah of Might an Magic. Context: The story has you trying for most of the game to stop an evil cult from releasing an ancient immortal demon lord from a magical prison he was sealed in. But said demon lord also planted a succubus in the protagonist's head, trying to get him to actually release the seal. Also said demon lord is the protagonist's father.
Good ending the seal is restored, succubus purged from protag's mind, and he marries a woman he has zero chemistry with and lives happily ever after, or so the fadeout claims.
Evil ending breaks the seal, demon lord is released, and you'd expect a typical "You did your job now you're useless to me" kind of betrayal, right? But no, demon dad welcomes the protagonist with open arms, tells him that the succubus planted in his head was also chosen to be the protagonist's future queen, and now you're all going to go conquer the world together as a happy evil family.
That good ending sounds like hot garbage
@@st.haborym It is, but to be fair, I'm pretty sure the evil ending was meant to be the canon one, to set up new big bads for future Might and Magic games. Unfortunately, the series was pretty much dead already by the time Dark Messiah was made and never recovered.
Hexadecimal and Megabyte from Reboot were fun, traditionally evil villains.
They were but they were also brother and sister. And 1 was more powerful than the other. I was sad to see hex basically sacrifice herself to end the cron virus vs daemon but it brought a temporary peace to mainframe. I didn’t like how reboot ended on a cliffhanger w/ megabyte taking control. Also they tried to continue or remake reboot and it was not good. At all.
I like both unadulterated evil characters (Joker) and complex villians with motives other than just "I'm evil for the sake of it" (Griffith, Big Boss).
Soul Edge is an evil sword that turned Siegfried into Nightmare by possessing him and using his body to steal thousands of souls by preying on his wish to resurrect his father (who he accidentally killed).
More snarling evil villains that you don't have to sift through a hundred flashbacks to appreciate would be great.
Feels like we've been made to look for the only good in them rather than properly appreciate the bad in them.
NYEAH!
I mostly agree, but I also like it when they have moments where the "Evil Guy, who is evil for evil's sake" has normal moments. Like... It's a bit cartoonish, but I love it when they show villains on off days or doing their morning routine. Why? I think it's funny. It really reminds you that, while they're not heroes, they also can't be perma-seated in their shadowy throne, ominously turned away from the camera while they pet their obligatory fluffy, white cat. Sometimes they need to get up, take a walk, grab some food and a cup of coffee, do some light reading, and THEN they go do bad guy stuff. Hell, most of the time, they don't even show villains doing research or battle planning.
I don't want sympathetic villains, I want properly fleshed out capital EVIL villains. I clicked on this video because I saw Skeletor in the thumbo. Skeletor is hands down one of my favorite characters in animation because he's just a bad dude that make AMAZING noises. "Niiah! Curse you, He-Man!"
That being said, I have no issues with sympathetic villains. Cartoonishly evil villains are great, but they're rarely threatening. I don't think they're meant to be. Villains with an agenda, however, are tangible to some extent. A hint of relatable ideology can do a lot to really cement the villain's threat. "I'm going to destroy the world because I'm evil and I can" is very unserious compared to "I will destroy humanity... for we are a blight upon this earth who take... and destroy everything that our greedy fingers can touch. An evolutionary reset is in order, and I shall be the arbiter of the end.".
There's this weird affect that happens where the more... intangible something seems, the less threated we are by it and visa versa. That's why sympathetic villains work, and it's why you don't see cartoonishly evil villains as much anymore. However, I still do like a bad bad guy.
Guisarme from 7th prince is a really great villain in that sense. Just pure evilness and really powerful. Like a shadow, the brighter, better, and the more likable Jade is, Guisarme becomes more dislikable to the readers for ruining such a good person.
I like the villain that goes with you throughout your entire party but gradually as he sees all the injustice going around and probably loses a loved one he finally snaps and turns into the final boss thinking they are doing humanity a favor without realizing they are hurting the very world they are trying to save or change for the better. It's a interesting way to write a relatable villain as we all have felt at some point in our lives that society have failed everyone including us and have wanted to change it for the betterment of everyone but the villain in their broken mind when they had no one they could turn to for help is just doing what they think is best for everyone even if it robs them of free will. Like gradually seeing someone who you are journeying with gradually going down a spiral into a despair and eventually becoming the final boss feels way more realistic than how other villains are made.
Though the evil for the sake of being evil actually does exist irl
They didn't make Skeletor sexy. Skeletor made evil sexy.
Skeletor gang represent.
Personaly, I like both kinds of villains. The problem is for every Max "Magneto" Eisenhardt, (Can you guess my favort sympithetic villian?) who is a man who survived a planed extermination of his people once, and will go to *nigh-unreasonable* langths to insure it *never happens again...* We get 100 half baked versions of him with worse attrocities, and far worse reasoning.
This is why I love the "Evil for the sake of it" villians. It's hard to screw up Zargothrax, master of nightmares, Keeper of celestial flame of Abernathy. Is their reasoning not great? Yes, but screw you! I cast summon plauge-bear!
That said, my favoret pure-evil character would probibly be ether Dr. Hans Volter from Killing Floor 2, for what lore bits we get for him... Or any demonic BBEG, you can't screw-up a litteral being of pure evil!
I'm probably not too good with the whole "sympathetic villain" thing. I've got at least one main villain in my lineup that's more to get the reaction of "Okay, yeah, I understand where you're coming from. ...But you're still an asshole and I'd rather see your bullshit plans fail."
Another in my lineup is obnoxious on purpose...but also incredibly dangerous. Obnoxious in attitude and supposed "superiority," acting like a mobster rather than a military general. Dangerous in actions due to having prisoners and death row inmates in his forces as cannon fodder hidden in plain sight...and not being afraid to fuck over his own people on top of people his nation conquered.
My favorite "sympathetic" villain was Oersted from Live A Live. Just a (Probably already flawed) man who had the entire world turn against him, so in turn he turned against the entire world.
Absolutely dude. His redemption was also really good
I do not care about villains tragic and relatable flashback life backstory. I'm scrolling fast every time it happens in manga.
So THAT'S how you say malevolent...
I see what you did there 😏😏😏😏
I didn't like what MCU did to Thanos. Thanos was super powerful and he wanted to kill because he was evil and he loved death (literally). MCU turned him into someone with evil methods but tried to make it sound like he had a point. No... No, he didn't have a point. At all.
I honestly laughed out loud when they exlained his motivation and tried to make it sound all deep and insightful instead of the silly shit that it is, magneto on the otherhand one of the best symphatetic villains and redemption arcs
Well… at least his eventual demise made sense
Imo, Saikano is prob one of the better written corrupted villain. It's not pretty and won't make you feel good, but its well written.
@kimchiacid More like a romantic horror story, but yes.