Thanks for an even and enlightening survey of the topic, Carole. It caught my eye because of the juxtaposition of "Gurdjieff" and "health." (Mr. G or perhaps Madame de Salzmann has said "The body is built for destruction.") The question naturally arises - how does it fit in with our proper role in the world, the most authentic version of our life? A whole cosmology supports a particular perspective and the actions that can in coordination produce effective results. But much is wrong with the "machine" - not only physically, but mentally and emotionally. All this can be described intellectually, after a fashion, but it can't be understood except by a more fully integrated individual. Hence, it is "the work." The movements are much less about physical development and health than they are an investigative tool for the practitioner to see into himself something of the nature and characteristics of his inner workings -- and of course they are also invigorating and aesthetic visually. But they are secondary to a more fundamental aim. Likewise the gardening and elaborate meals -- all of these activities and the ordinary reactions of people in such focused and often unaccustomed work . . . you can't buy that kind of opportunity to see what the "machine" is really like, and come to terms with what you're really willing to do about it. (The story is told about one of the original Russians who emigrated with Gurdjieff, who seemed to have a gift for rubbing everybody the wrong way, who decided he must leave - and how Mr. G had to persuade him to stay!) Fritz Peters, whose infected leg wound was healed during his wartime visit with Mr. G, also tells of a curious healing from his boyhood at Gurdjieff's Institute. Working in the kitchen, a very large pot of boiling hot water was upset on the stove and spilled on one of his arms. Mr. G was passing by and witnessed the accident, and even before Fritz could react himself, Gurdjieff had his bare arm firmly in his grasp and held close to the fire for several seconds -- of course it probably seemed a much longer time to the boy. Evidently no ordinary consequences of such a mishap developed at all.
@@peterlloyd5285 Hi Peter, thank you for your reply. Though I appreciate Carole's research as a professor of religion, there's no short/easy way to untangle comparative "thinking about" the Gurdjieff work by way of those who "profess" to know about the Gurdjieff ideas but are not engaged in the work practice itself. If you'd like to contact me for further dialogue, please write to me: sunprint@earthlink.net . For an introduction to the whole cosmology of Gurdjieff, I recommend P.D.Ouspensky "In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching"
Thanks for an even and enlightening survey of the topic, Carole. It caught my eye because of the juxtaposition of "Gurdjieff" and "health." (Mr. G or perhaps Madame de Salzmann has said "The body is built for destruction.")
The question naturally arises - how does it fit in with our proper role in the world, the most authentic version of our life? A whole cosmology supports a particular perspective and the actions that can in coordination produce effective results. But much is wrong with the "machine" - not only physically, but mentally and emotionally. All this can be described intellectually, after a fashion, but it can't be understood except by a more fully integrated individual. Hence, it is "the work."
The movements are much less about physical development and health than they are an investigative tool for the practitioner to see into himself something of the nature and characteristics of his inner workings -- and of course they are also invigorating and aesthetic visually. But they are secondary to a more fundamental aim.
Likewise the gardening and elaborate meals -- all of these activities and the ordinary reactions of people in such focused and often unaccustomed work . . . you can't buy that kind of opportunity to see what the "machine" is really like, and come to terms with what you're really willing to do about it. (The story is told about one of the original Russians who emigrated with Gurdjieff, who seemed to have a gift for rubbing everybody the wrong way, who decided he must leave - and how Mr. G had to persuade him to stay!)
Fritz Peters, whose infected leg wound was healed during his wartime visit with Mr. G, also tells of a curious healing from his boyhood at Gurdjieff's Institute. Working in the kitchen, a very large pot of boiling hot water was upset on the stove and spilled on one of his arms. Mr. G was passing by and witnessed the accident, and even before Fritz could react himself, Gurdjieff had his bare arm firmly in his grasp and held close to the fire for several seconds -- of course it probably seemed a much longer time to the boy. Evidently no ordinary consequences of such a mishap developed at all.
thanks...if we may have list of books and Gurdjieff's associates who worked on movements.
For an introduction to the whole cosmology of Gurdjieff, P.D.Ouspensky "In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching"
@@Fishpond8 thanks
The point of your program is to add to the tangle? There is much incomplete and in some cases absolutely wrong interpretation here.
You have made an assertion, but not backed it up in any way.
@@peterlloyd5285 Hi Peter, thank you for your reply. Though I appreciate Carole's research as a professor of religion, there's no short/easy way to untangle comparative "thinking about" the Gurdjieff work by way of those who "profess" to know about the Gurdjieff ideas but are not engaged in the work practice itself. If you'd like to contact me for further dialogue, please write to me: sunprint@earthlink.net . For an introduction to the whole cosmology of Gurdjieff, I recommend P.D.Ouspensky "In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching"
Dear Carole, congratulations for your fluent answers. I enjoyed listening to you. Thanks a lot. Reijo Oksanen