The Best Team Bonuses in AOE2:DE | Jan 2023
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TheViper | Professional Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition Player for GamerLegion | Sponsored by Re-Bo
Obviously we need a tier list for the best fish boom on BF civ
oh, that's easy: Japanese is Okay, Malay is SSS, everyone else is trash.
Malay and Japs S tier all the way
@@mohamedelshazly1514 burgundians up there
Italians have cheaper fishing ships. Persians have faster working docks and get their dock built earlier with the extra wood. Celts have more wood.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 dravidians have free wood, malians have cheaper buildings, seargeants can make donjons, donjons can make sargents.
In a following video, you could take about synergy bonuses for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. Some of these bonuses especially shine in combination with others so synergies can be quite powerful.
That would be great
Saracens: "somewhat situational, you has to make ... buildings"
Berbers, such as the vietnamese, have 2 team bonuses with Kasba (+25% working rate of team's castles) which can trigger some synergies with civs relying heavily upon their unic unit
That’s not a team bonus
Kasba is a tech that needs to be researched in the castle.
@@thanzeelhassan yes, but we can say the same regarding imperial skirmisher : "imperial skirmisher is a tech that needs to be researched in the archery range" (of the concerned player)
Should add in Cumans free Kipchaks as well
@@louishodouin8709 wtf? No we can’t say that at all
Love tierlists, this was a good one!
I would probably have the Aztec lower, relics are not as important given the trade and you can end up with games where your team just gets a few of them (if even that).
Many games are over before you even consider taking relics. As a team bonus it doesnt even makes sense since always only one or two players of a team will take them.
In fact its a very situational bonus, e.g. there are some mega random maps with very low natural gold mines but some relics. In these cases it can be useful.
Celts bonus is better than the generic 25% ones. Not just production, but for tech too... when paired with Mongols, it's insane.
id say that britton and hun bonus could be a tier cause cavalry and especially archer numbers are very important and a couple more archers could start snowballing the game, also i would put most line of sight bonuses for units to trash except mongol one and the magyar one
I would say the Bulgarian, Huns and Brittons should be way up. Cavalry and archers are the bread and butter of most major attack so giving your team mate that bonus is significant, unless they only spam infantries and sieges for some reason (extremely unlikely). Bulgarians 80% blacksmith research time is insane when you think about it
If your team has banking the saracen market bonus is also a team bonus :)
i would do some changes
Briton A tier: tgs with archers in the flank are horrible to play that vs, even can help to make HC in imperial to protect cavalry from pockets.
Huns A tier: kinda the same as britons.
Bengalis to A tier or even S: 10% is a lot of food, imagine u have -8 vills to send to farm if u have liek 50 trade carts, thats a lot.
Frank to trash: u wont see monks even with this, is not even a bad one.
Burgundian to Bad: u dont capture too many relics in tg anyway, 30 food per relic is like meh bonus
I think imperial skirms should be a thing by default to encourage different strats, or maybe a bit less speed for archers/a buff of speed to non-eagle infantry
Imagine the importance of the Slavs' team bonus for Norway in the Nations Cup considering the propensity of their two stars to get housed. 11
I'm at the beginning of video but civs like berbers, cumans etc need to be adressed also with their castle unique techs imo (or vietnamese with their showing enemy tc bonus). Kasbah, Cuman Mercenaries, techs like that also affect the team, so why not consider that aswell?
I personally like that this tier-list is just about the team-game bonuses, he'll probably do another tier-list for best team-game civs in general. E.g. sometimes the team bonus doesn't even come into consideration when it comes to the best team-game civs, considering how Franks are often considered the best pocket civ, yet they don't really bring anything that materially improves their teammates' military or economy.
You could also consider the Caravanserei (Hindustanis), which is not a technology but a unique building.
Then there are unique techs like Grank Trunk Road (Hindustanis) and Silk Road (Italians), which do not benefit the team directly, but allow those civs to benefit more from trade in team games.
Feitoria (Portuguese) also don't benefit the team directly but can be incredibly impactful in team games where resources are running out, or where the Portuguese player takes a lot of damage in the early game they can just recover so quickly with Feitoria and go for BBT or sling.
Kasbah is uniquely strong when having a nice composition based on unique units, or trebs (Britons, Japanese, Tatars); but it's quite situational. Not every civ's unique unit is as useful in a team army comp.
Mongols in S tier as first. Bonus for scouting is so huge...
This video should have title "it depends ..." :D Love your polemics !
the only time I've had the berbers jenitour team bonus help was one time playing nomad, had turks and was pushed into a corner without gold so I held with jenitours
Viper, with how much BF you're playing, could you make BF civ tier list? Now that you have all that experience, including that 10% handicap! lol
When talking about berbers shouldn't one include their castle age unique tech, Kasbah, since it applies to all allies?
Btw the Gujara camel also dosent benefit from Mongols TB
I think the byzantine bonus for Spanish missionaries is pretty naughty on your conquistadors...but in also a noob and play in low elo so😆
Only one i really disagree with is the briton one, especially seeing how often flanks use archer units througout the whole game.
Teuton resist conversion, let’s go!!! 😆
Archer civs when the enemy team has Italians. 😐😐😐
Beloved snek: dravidians bonus is OP in BF where you can get a pond or two Kappa
So the whole Iberian peninsula is S tier. Having transports and an alive scout allowed them to get quite much more gold since they went into early scouting of foreign territories, also known as Latin America (guess whom does the gold belong to, KEK). Guess life in colonialism era was a Team Islands game
By the way, Ñ
People are gonna have OPINIONS about the Britons team bonus.
I see how it isn't from Viper's perspective, but at a lower elo I don't see how getting 20% more archers / xbow and also 20% more scouts / knights isn't some of the best team bonuses.
@@niksutliff I think upwards of 90% of players at every skill level would agree. Nations league is coming up with a 40 drafts + 2 bans and honestly would be surprised to see Britons make it past the draft in more than half of the sets. Part of that is that Britons are a good archer civ in general but as most damage in protracted fights comes from the archers in TGs they tend to be valued highly like you say.
Huns bonus is generally considered to be slightly weaker because the higher cost of cavalry makes keeping up with additional production harder compared with archer line and Goths bonus slightly less good again as the knights + archers tend to dominate the TG meta.
I think perhaps Viper's tier list has been somewhat skewed by his recent focus on BF.
@@niksutliff Because outside the early game, you can just build another production building.
When you and the Briton have five ranges each, his bonus is worth 175 wood.
If anything the Britons bonus should be A tier. Archer play can be quite dominant in 3v3 and 4v4. Britons allow both flanks to outmass the opponents, which can lead to snowballing.
Even see this in 1v1's
@@BlueSky-vd6qh Only if you can afford 4 more archers :D
It also helps a lot pushing out defensive skirms to defend from archer/ca raids.
Especially if the other border is mayan.
Those Bulgarian blacksmiths are SO nice when needing to upgrade like 3 lines at once. Plus those imp upgrades take forever normally. Everyone gets blacksmith upgrades. So often units are held back from engaging in a fight until upgrades come in. It’s 80% faster!! That’s so ridiculously good.
Yes for sure, takes 75 secs for armor in imp and attack 100 secs for cavalry line. makes a huge difference to be able to hit that spike a minute earlier in imp
You are probably right men. Bulgarians might deserve A tier at the very least.
THE NUMBER OF TIMES i lost because i forgot to upgrade my troops after a boom 😂
Everytime it happens i am like" if only i had that team bonus"
i honestly think viper underrates britons tg bonus a lot, that bonus makes britons best tg flank on open maps with their range bonus.
That being said, i think S tier bonuses are bonuses that make opponent change their strategy completely or rethink that by just being there. Examples : Saracens, Teutons, Italians.
Not a team bonus, but the Lithuanian relic bonus makes people devote themselves to playing keepaway so they don’t get so powerful.
Yes I was shocked about his placement for Britons. The impact is immense with both flanks making 2 range archers.
Britons bonus is especially good when combined with Mayans on the other flank
Exactly. Most of the ratings seem weird. Bulgarians is "Okay" while Portugese is S-Tier???? Its literally a better bonus.
@@hareshneeraj998Portuguese helps everywhere in the game, between eco techs, unit upgrades timings and especially things like Ballistics and Chemistry
Faster Blacksmiths are amazing in specific situations but besides that the Portuguese bonus is miles better overall
Poor Incas can't catch a break for having the 2 of the weakest team bonuses in the game
Incas team bonus should be changed to: Infantry +2 Line of Sight
Skirmishers getting extra LoS in team games is very underwhelming
Think about the avarage impact of a team bonus..most of them help you in specific situations..if the game goes late..if the army comp is such and such, if you got for this strat or not..Mongols make every single game more consistent for the entire team..woodlines, gold, sheep, enemies, boars - everyone benefits every single game...by far the most influential bonus if we consider the avarage impact over all the maps and games. Portuguese bonus might be the only bonus that gets close to Mongol one.
Especially if you keep the spirit of the law videos in minds, where he shows how much more ground a scout with mongol vision can cover. Especially in dark age the difference is crazy!
@@timhuester7721 Yes, but its the classic "16 inch diameter pizza doesnt have two times as much pizza as an 8 inch pizza but rather 4 times as much".
@@2nightwehunt well it would be true if your scout was teleported away every step it takes. But instead it follow a straight line with the back of the LoS not being used, and the front not changing lot for general scouting. Only the side of that circle change something, so its not the same as the analogy you mentionned.
@jeanmarc6517 It is, because thats how a normal scout works as well. Proportionally it's the exact same as if they both did teleport.
@@2nightwehunt No, because the increase in the back does nothing. What would 1 more Los do in the back beside show you something you already saw. Only the front half of the scout is used to explore.
I consider Hindustian ability to build Caravanserai as team bonus too. With common team bonus could Hindustanis move one step higher.
OMG BENGALIS SHOULD BE S TIER
I think Berbers should definitely get a bump here because they have 2 team bonuses and their second one (not mentioned in the video) is great. With their unique tech in Castle Age, everyone's Castles work faster. This boosts research time, Unique Unit Creation, and Trebs for everyone. No it's not a standard "Team Bonus", but it still is a form of team bonus. They are also the only civ to have a second team bonus besides the Cumans.
Enjoyed the Video though. Thanks Viper!
I would say Berbers is rather situational in a good way. Their team bonus can shine if there's nice combo (as huns discount) or turks who cant build skirms.
Basically any cav archer civ can be greatfull for genitours since it allows better trades against any archer comp in castle age without giving up mobility.
Would you consider making more of this type of videos? Tierlists, top 10 for certain maps or strategies or maybe top 10 strongest death balls...I think your subs yearn for more Vipah theorycrafting
I'm puzzled by Aztecs bonus being so up there because for some other bonus you used the criteria of "X is not really good because it kicks in so late", and that is exactly what happens with relics... and it's even worse in TGs because making trade is kind of a must and it generates way more gold to the point in which relics aren't even a relevant factor in the outcome of the match.
I felt like koreans team bonus is prettymuch useless. At least as game goes on, their siege onagers would kill itself by firing at the reduced minimum range :D
My vote for next tierlist: Best Full Feudal Civs
I think making Byzantines free town watch and town patrol be the team bonus and keeping the monk healing to themselves would be sick.
If I have a vietnamese teamate in 3v3 or 4v4 I'm more likely to pick mayans for the houl'je javaline imperial skirmishers. Imp skirms are cool and they will have a second javelin that they throw.
I agree that incas have the absolute worst TB in the game. You're right. The farm bonus was a lot better even though it was not great.
Chinese should be S tier because realistically speaking, it's the only bonus where you're actually saving resources for the whole team. Delaying farming by 10% has a small but nonetheless existent savings in woods, and upgrades coming in on time with reseeding because of the slight delay.
The Spanish one requires you to invest into trading for it to be good, which isn't universally great; Chinese farms are good in almost all cases because even in team game Nomad, at some point you will have to farm. The biggest thing holding Chinese bonus back is how average the whole civ is on team games.
It's true that it is nerfed, and you only get the former (+45 food) bonus when you research all the farm techs (so civs without crop rotation will have smaller bonuses). Although it is true that 10% delay in wood can rarely be felt in wood savings.
for an exhaustive tier list it'd probably be too long, but a video on best team synergy civs would be really interesting
I had a game where I stomped a archerpush because he had to retreat in early castle and when he came back, I sweeped him with my glorious genitor army. So imho not bad but very situational 🙂
BRs to Leipzig
Genitours might be slightly situational, but they’re exactly the thing you need in those situations. Turks obviously benefit the most considering they don’t have elite skirm. But Genitours can neutralize cav archers and be a tanky, pop-efficient unit vs archer civs. Pop efficient units are super important in team games since there’s the eco to sustain them.
ok, after a lot of thinking, as a guy that has an immense problem with overbooming, the Slav team bonus helps me with combating that and I've seen more and more wins because I can actually use my army reliably, so it's without a doubt, my favorite team bonus
Are we playing the same game Viper? The whole team game meta is scouts/archers into Xbows/kts, yet bonusses like Huns, Britons (depends on your team making archers, like that even is a question) and Persians are just 'OK'. While we never see monks and siege, yet Teutons S-tier and Celts same lvl as Britons & Huns? At some points in the video I thought you were trolling :D
To be fair a bit questionable tier-list. For ex. what a percentage of games effects on impact of trade bonuses? Not more than 20%. Or why vietnamese team bonus so much better then berbers. Defenitely britons , huns and persians deserved higher seed, they have snowball potential and could be used in majority of games.
All of Viper's tier lists/balance stuff are very questionable.
Poor Incas, forever destined to be a B-tier civ in all tier lists except those about Team Bonuses, where they're always alone in the worst. I wish they had some sort of a farming or trade team bonus instead. Trade bonus might make more sense. I've suggested 'Trade units move X % faster' before, but that sort of is taken by Hindustani now, with their Caravanserai. But maybe it could still help out. 😭
Really does feel like the only tier list Incas can be S-tier in is the size of weaponry the UUs use...
New farm team bonus. Farms are 2x2 instead of 3x3! (This is an idea, with how they've changed the farm pathing for vills normally I think it's also more viable (less likely to result in bugs) now as well!)
@@rovsea-3761 Yeah, I've seen that suggested as well. Though I will add that I'm a little hesitant with farming bonuses as... well, the main food users will be Kamayuk and Slinger, neither of which find much use in 1v1s. This becoming a -team bonus- might be a little too impactful as well.
When I've thought of a farming bonus, I felt attracted to some sort of elevation bonus, but now that might feel too similar to Poles, as you'd have to plan out your farming a lot more, and it'd be too situational. Oh well.
@@An1llusion Food is not only for units though. Majority of techs cost alot of food.
Berbers also have Kasbah technology btw. Very important for civ with powerhouse unique Units
I feel like the "very situational" tier should have been placed before bad. Could totally see all of those civs picked specifically for those bonuses on the right map over any of the civs in the bad tier.
franks bonus was great, until shared team vision was a 100% thing.
vipey man, youre not gonna put turks and hindustanis in the same tier as britons and huns now, are you? please say sike
Ethiopians team bonus is actually v good in some nomad games where u can detect a raid quicker because u have the outpost. Also sometimes when u have a player cockroaching then it becomes easier to find him. Ofcourse these r situations where u r quite ahead already.
i think xhina team bonus s tear. everybody make farms in game and food is most difficult res in the game. Bec u need take wood and make farms. 175 food for a farm, with upgrades horse collar and heavy plow it is 375 with xhina bonus it is 412 it means 37 food for per farms and it is great efficency. if u do like 50 farms in castel age it mean 1850 food extra for nothing. And ur villagers will work more efficency bec they reseed farm later. Even think it with sicilians and poles. İf u are poles with crop rotation u will have 550 food in a farm. And if u have xhina too 55 food additionaly. That means 605 food and u will have 5 food extra directly for a building farm.
i’d agree chinese bonus should be S especially for civs with top tier eco bonuses (teutons, slavs, franks, etc.), but for chinese themselves it’s just trading off for them missing crop rotation.
Byzantines must get a downgrade and Burgundians team bonus is also very bad
For me Magyars bonus is very poor, but on ELO lets say 1500+ it is fight deciding factor during whole Feudal age. There is alway at least 1 player going Scouts and at least one player going Archers on the other side, so these microfights between Scouts and Archers are every game and usually many times. In 4v4 games totally deciding bonus for Feudal age.
The only slight upside to the LOS bonusses is that it also increases units' search radius, Incas/Magyars/Tatars don't get much out of that but it makes Frank Pala better at raiding than generic ones.
The Inca team bonus is underrated. It does not take into account the free lama, which is obviusly a good bonus.
Look at the time when this vid was posted
i would put Slavs team bonus on S tier but other than that i agree with you. one note about Team bonuses is that players must remember that these may change the way their civilizations are played a little bit. Incas still need to have a decent team bonus, the previous one they had was almost useless but this one seems even less useful.
I think genitours were quite underrated, apparently they can be even more cost efficient than skirms, and adding in the mobility, they can be quite useful imo
Also, Genitours are HUGE to those few civs without Elite Skirms.
The Imperial skirmisher upgrade definitely need to be more expensive. It is too strong as a team bonus. The Berber team bonus is also not bad at all, it has been buffed a lot
I feel like Britons bonus should be A or S tier no? Especially when considering bohemians bonus is A tier. Why else were Britons auto ban in BOA? On open maps it's completely oppressive
Maybe considering Arena BF nomad TG it's okay or situational, but like chaos pit, Arabia, Collisseum where its S tier?
I would downgrade Bohemians for sure. If you make 3 markets instead of 6 it's only saving 500 wood in early imperial, which is big but doesnt matter every game
A little question at 17:07
When was the last time your opponent did not make buildings? Seems like a very rare case to me
All credit to your Editor .. He has done a very good Job.. I watched it being edited on FB Gaming.
It's nice to know, my next 25 minutes I will see interesting content. 🤤
@TheViperAOE why would you say Berber is a bad tier team bonus but Vietnamese is S-tier? IMO they have the same bonus damage against archers but with extra 20-40 HP depending on bloodlines and extra mobility. Especially when you also consider Berber can also be used in Castle age without the need to tech into elite skirm (for example if you get surprised with spears), which can come in very clutch.... and if you need to tactically "advance to the rear" skirms lower mobility means much high casualties when you need to preserve numbers most.
Genitours are sort of worse than Skirmishers because they're also in a Cavalry class. Sure, it gives them mobility, but also another weakness. In some situational uses like Turks, are Genitours actually great, but otherwise it's not as great as Vietnamese (who also have situational benefits like with Lithuanians, where Tower Shields + Imp Skirm gives them bonkers PA).
Genitour is a skirmisher that dies to halbs. Sure, against anything that's not a halb it'll be better, but not amazing.
Also Genitour only really has its true power when used by civs that have Bloodlines AND Husbandry at least (if not Parthian tactics and even Bracer), and having all of that is rare. Most civs that make Genitours shine also have really good cav archers and in team games, where gold isn't that much of an issue, you prefer to use your pop space with cav archers themselves.
On the other hand, Imperial Skirmisher is cheaper and on par (cost-efficiency wise) with the best Genitours on everything but mobility, and reach their peak potential with a lot more civs.
If to compare genitours with imp skirm - genitours still more tanky vs range units, but cost 15 more food, 1 less range and 2 less bonus damage vs CA. Elite upgrade for genitour cost 500f 450w(+ stables 300f 100g), for imp skirm line - 530w 580g. Overall vietnamese team bonus seems better but they have to be closer to each other.
True that in tg's preferable to use gold units. To deal vs enemy range units - adding skirms is more situatuional, for ex. when player temporarily dont have enough gold income or some other reason. In general genitours are decent unit if player have to use skirm-line. Compare to elite skirm genitours do + 2 more damage vs archers, same dmg vs spears, more than twice tanky and can chase enemy CA. Against mass halbs - elite skirms is simpler, in case player dont want to constantly micro with genitours.
Britons and huns may be more relevant since archers and cavalry are the meta and have impact in more stages on the game than infantry and siege production, right?
dont agree with tutons and saracens,
@theviper just gonna say this, the +2 damags to archers can completely change the game outcome BECAUSE knights kill crossboes in 4 hits with forging, iron casting does nothing. With +2 from this civ bonus and iron casting, knights kill crossbows in 3 hits instead of 4 and i think that would come as a surprise outcome to the xbows player and lose him the game.
Also i promide you, byx team bonus is fking op S++ eith saracen mamelukes "high health ranged units in general"
And ele archers in fsct anything that is countered by skirms, byz counters thrm 100% complete shut down it is a strstegy i ran for a while now. And never failed not even once.
BERBERS IN BAD? They're easy S. Better skirmishers for 15 more food and 25% working castles for everyone is bad? Are you high? xD
So wait, you put Vietnamese as S-tier, but Berbers as "bad"? That doesn't make sense. If anything, Elite Genitours are comparable in strength to Imperial Skirmishers. Imp. Skirms might have more range and pierce armor, but Genitours are way faster and have more HP. Not to mention if the Berbers have a Turk ally, it benefits them perfectly, while Vietnamese can't help the Turks.
Britons is way off imo. The recent arabia TG meta with super aggressive 18 pop 2 archery ranges meta with 20% faster archer prod is HUGE!! If you have 10 vs 12 archers (for example) in your first fight can determine the game, even more the higher the level. Take that x2 as there normally is 2 archer players in a 3v3 or 4v4 open map TG. That must be a straight S tier bonus in open maps for sure
"This is an incredibly good team bonus. I won't put it in S tier though." is like half of this video.
In all seriousness, though, it's so interesting to me that you and SOTL have essentially opposite opinions. SOTL showed (fairly convincingly, in my opinion) that Incas' faster farms bonus in older patches barely increased food gathering over time. I think it came out to be like...0.5% extra food in the best case scenario. Conversely he thought Saracens' archer bonus to be useless and made fun of it in multiple videos. I think you're correct on this, though, because palisades need to go down in an archer rush somehow if a row of them get in their way.
What if you had a 4v4 and Allies which were goths, britons, Huns, and Celt’s? Basically all your units are made faster. This can help in in the beginning in a rush, and making a defensive army quickly. The other good team bonus, the trade ones, only start in middle of game, while the other bonuses I mentioned are helpful in all the game. Basically you can field an army 20% faster and replace it 20% faster. So you will slowly win late game pushes.
I still don't get why Genitours are so undervalued. Sure they might be more expensive than Skirmishers but Genitours are superior in every other way: way more damage, greater mobility, tankier.
I honestly think Berbers should be "S" tier and Vietnamese somewhere in "Okay". Imperial Skirmisher is not that great of an upgrade.
Edit: Ok so Imperial Skirmishers have 1 more pierce armor but honestly that's so insignificant compared to what more the Genitour has to offer.
Just gonna say, while you say byzantine bonus is situation, it actually really is not, at least vs skirmishers. A byzantine monk healing vs 3-5 skirmishers is borderline op . But it does have a very high situational ceiling, cases where it becomes broken.
byzantines healing bonus is s+ tier if your civ have anything tanky with range. I've had mamelukes games where i literally had an immortal army with it, and mamelukes don't even have good range.
So imagine ballista elephants or elephant archers with it. Maybe the korean wagons too?
The Britons, Huns, Celts, and Goth faster production building bonuses are all S-tier, they help virtually ever single game, and the best bonuses are ones that you don't even realize that they're giving you an edge, you just feel like you're playing better because you're out massing your opponents consistently, getting upgrades faster, etc. Especially the stable bonus helping you get Cavalier and Paladin faster.
huns have the edge there because scouts and knight spams are the most common. even helpful for camel/se asia civs.
3:05. Isn't that Burgundians generate 3 food while Aztecs generate 1 gold. 3 food not only is better than 1 gold in early game but also better in late game (1 gold equals 2.5 food in extreme situatons). Bengalis 10% food bonus from trade is funny besides Spanishes 25% gold bonus, it should be at least 33% food.
I'd rate Burgundian team bonus as better than Aztecs. Gold isn't an issue in team games due to trade so I'd rater take the 30 food per minute instead of 10 gold. That's a free 1.25 farmers per relic. The extra 10 gold per minute is the equivalent to ~0.4 trade carts on a long route. Unless you rate gold in team games (where you have infinite gold) at more than 3x the value than food it makes no sense to have Aztecs better than Burgundians.
The Portugese bonus saves 30 seconds on Paladin or Heavy Camel upgrade and about 25 seconds on Chemistry. On almost all the other techs researched in the game, its less than 10 seconds worth of benefits. At the top level, that might be great for 1v1 but why is that so powerful in TG?
Nice Tier list.
But i dont agree with Tatars and Incas bonus. If you will lose scout, you can do Spearman and with +2 LOS its such a great unit for exploring. (Incas) Tatars cavarly archers are available in Castle Age and in this point i think its not so great. I think these are similar.
Technically every team bonus is situational, and I don't think that magyar foot archer plus 2 line of sight is a BAD bonus because it is extremely helpful for archer rushes. Idk what you're smoking
Burgundians should at least be as good as Aztecs. It's 3 times more food than it would be gold. I think even with market prices going as low as 6:1(100:17) it is still good
I know this is a random question, but what happens when turks and vietnamese play together ? Do turks get imp skirm or no ?
22:06 "let me have a quick look here to see if there's anything I would change"
Yeah... maybe change "Very Situational" to "Good on water situation".
Being Lithuanians and having a Vietnamese ally Winged Hussars and Imperial Skirmishers (with extra Pierce Armour) amazing trash units.
Aztec bonus is great in 1v1s, but massively overrated here as a team bonus. Not only is the bonus itself diluted in TGs as maps contain fewer relics per player, but the main utility of the bonus (better late game gold income when mines start to run out) doesn’t really apply to TGs as teams have access to trade. Great civ bonus, bad team bonus.
I kinda think the magyar huzsar should be a shared team unit at stables
Especially with their history of mercenary work
The faction is good but i feel it could use a new unit or something for 1v1 play from castles
Maybe even consider magyar hussars as a tier above normal hussars?
Thank you Viper, wish we have new tier list of all civ on arabia for 2023
I love the fact, that all the "very situational" are bonuses for the docks :D I recently started to love Malay and spam those docks to share everyone more vision since i can upgrade them to Harbors which is a line of defence in the end.
The Berbers / North African peoples have used javelin-armed cavalry for millennia and these Nomadic Bedouins offered their services to numerous larger Empires of the region, Be it Romans, Saracens, Nubians, Byzantines , Persians as well as the Crusader kingdoms. The Team bonus Genitors is brilliant ,fits well to the civ and should 100% never be replaced.
I absolutely love using the Genitours when fighting as the Byzantines or Crusaders with Berber allies , to use as a mobile raiding force / supporting force on the flanks of my professional standing army.
I also love how if you play as the Turks and have historically accurate Berbers as an ally, your genitors become insanely strong . A strong ranged cav that cost no gold compared to all your other units that are so intensely gold dependent. A perfect fit for dessert warfare.
I adore LOS bonuses, for a non pro player like myself whom is not used to ''reading'' the game, battle information by means of LOS is highly important.
Like the Frankish knights / Incan Spear/Skirms that provide you with intel of the battlefields. And again if you play a historically accurate game and you are the Mongols allied to Tatars the Tatar Rangerd cav LOS bonus is beastly.
Civs that do not gain access to Good cavalry,nor gunpowder,nor elephants and a weak navy should instead receive strong bonuses for their infantry, villagers and trash.
African and mezzo civs should only have canoe navies. Able to fire arrows ,fast ,agile and only using 0.5 pop space but they don't have access to Gally line, nor cannon. Gallons. All canoes can carry/transport 3-5 units and are trained twice as fast as regular ships. Don’t have access to fire ships but get fire canoes that shoot fat covered fire arrows (Fat burns intensely hot). Tech in dock:Fat covered fire arrows - +3 attack to canoes.
Canoes transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour,attack and range.
Give the imperial Skirmisher Team bonus (Vietnamese) to a Sub Sahara African civ (Shona people).
Sub Sahara African civs get African huts as Dark age houses. (Already in game.)
Saracen + Berber+Turks dark age houses should be Berber tents (Already in game.)
Lithuanians
‘’Skirmishers and spearmen move 10% faster’’ bonus should go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC.
And the (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armour) should go to the Zaputechs.
In turn Lithuanians towershields tech applies to their crossbows and their sword line. .
Dravidians
I would love to see the Dravidian ‘’Skirmishers attack 25% faster’’ bonus go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC
Tribes of the Tropics DLC
Taíno/Arawak peoples / Carib kingdom/Tupi
Zaputechs
Mapuches/Tarascans.
Toltecs
Polynesians/ Tuʻi Tonga Empire.
In turn the Dravidian Urumi gains the ability to build/repair docks and faster firing hand cannoneers.
whats the point of these comment, at least HERE?
Nicee
The Magyars' team bonus is so stupid. Magyars were known for their cavalry archers, would make way more sense if those got the +LoS.
Vat ? How is Burmese bonus situational - are relics situational ? 😅plus let’s you see if enemey has them plus it kinda gives you position of enemy (i love Burmese so forgive my fanaticism) 😅
Slavs should be S tier, helping the whole team not to be housed in early fights could make the game.
@17:00 “It’s situational that your opponent has to make buildings that you can shoot.”
Those unshootable buildings/no buildings strat are just too good.
Wait a second, i never played team games but does gurjaras and huns bonuses stack for an elephant civ/camrl? 😅
Shared exploration makes mongols worse because availability of scouting so much more.
One thing to point out for the burmese at 3:25 is that the relics can also help find enemies and coastlines/good docking spots for nomad
and Bamboo nothing maps 11
I might be wrong of course, but I suspect youve seen Spirit of the Law's civ overview where he mentions this exact thing. Eemy TC location is easier to guess as relics dont spawn inside a radius around TCs
burmese team bonus more useful for 1vs1 to find enemy location, in tg starting location are fixed and players more or less knows where enemy tc's
@@2nightwehunteven better if you have vietnamese in the team too. but i’d say it would be absolute S if you have lithuanians or aztecs, just too good if there are specific civs that can make the most from relics.
Vipi, I like a lot the way you think the game. Have you ever considered coaching players?
Mayan imp skirms with Vietnamese ally would be insane. Probably a counter to war elephants? Lol
I've seen you play a lot of team games lately where the map is already explored, doesn't that make all the LOS bonuses even more worthless?