"Any ship that sees combat has the potential to become a more-or-less voluntary submarine. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with my 13,000ton, 600' long *submarine* with a 4.7'' main belt and 8 8' guns in 4 twin turrets. On an unrelated note, our heavy cruiser "Algerie" has suddenly disappeared and we ask to be allowed to build a replacement." - French Naval Architect that had come up with a cunning plan (ca. 1936)
Surcouf, The only sub to ever shoot an albatross, sail under a ladder, cross the path of a black cat (ships cat presumably) and break the captains mirror all on the same night. ;-(
Well it will be more like one then the other and the next and then what finally kill it was a merchant ship not all at the same time maybe let's say like 2 hour apart
@@cvproj They are unlikely to be reporting at the same time. Its more the idea that a damaged surcouf from one incident is dead in the water/forced to remain on the surface. It's then attacked in one or more of the following incidents..
“How should we improve range on this sub?” “Why not a long pole, we could just take it down when not is use.” “No, too complicated, how about a plane?”
🤔 Look, the designers of this sub made an obvious mistake. Sure, it was a good idea to add a twin 8" gun turret, and a pretty good idea to add a single float plane and launcher. But they missed out on a PERFECT opportunity to install a large floating flight deck to the rear of the sub! It should've been at least 500 feet long, with a lower hanger to stow at least 32 various planes, and 2-3 large plane elevators. The planes would be water-tight. 😀👍 Ballast tanks underneath would've been quickly filled with water in times of air or surface attack, so that both the sub AND the 500 foot long flight deck could submerge and hide under water. It would've been attached to the sub via an extendable cable.
I don't think it was that the long pole would be complicated or impractical, they probably realized right from the beginning that anyone stationed up there would probably get a headache within 5 minutes due to the excessively violent sway that a sub undergoes when it's on the surface.
@@the_undead Exactly. Not only that, even if they had just placed a very long telescope sight so nobody had to be up there, whoever would be watching through the sights from down in the conning tower would het a headache trying to aim though a sight that moves six meters to each side every few seconds.
@@HighlanderNorth1 - hooked on strong chains... the planes follow-floated the whole construct while it struggled through the high seas - where the engines burned the year produce of diesel and oil - great choice !
My theory is that the Surcouf went into a time vortex and travelled back around a century, and became the inspiration for the Nautilus in 20,000 leagues under the sea.
@@hevendor958 Well, the Thompson Lykes hit _something._ No one else's submarines went missing. It probably plowed through a French submarine. If it wasn't the Thompson Lykes, the 6th Heavy Bomber Squadron based out of Panama reported sinking a large submarine, but there's no record of any German activity in that area at that time. Those are the two most likely fates.
You can imagine the meeting when they came up with it. A dark, smoke-filled room with bored looking French naval officers. One says 'ow about a submarine... zat is also a cruiser?' The others shrug and nod before all of them set off for a three hour lunch.
Pretty sure somebody over there stumbled across an image of it. The base in the second game is a massive submarine and I'm pretty sure that has turrets
I need to look up how deep the water is where she might of gone down and if there have been any serious efforts to find her. Probably a pretty hard/expensive job.
We found Titanic, Bismark, Yorktown, Lexington, both Yamatos etc. So, it should be fairly easy to find a mass as large as Surcouf in the Gulf of Mexico. The magnetic signature,alone, would be a hint. But, the Hunley was missing over a century, right off the beach from Charleston, SC.
Man if only I had the resources to dedicate to searching for this gorgeous french monster. I could have meant to find the Godzilla too, but I mean this boat.
A shame it didn't make it to the Pacific, imagine how surprised a Japanese Battleship would have been if this surfaced beside it at night and began to fire 8" shells into it's side at a range of 30 meters!
I would be rather surprised if the Japanese battleship would not make at least some threatening gestures against an unknown warship preparing her guns for firing for several minutes 30 meters away.
@William Signs Good point. Surcouf could carry a lot of supplies for guerrilla units, evacuate refugees, land raiding parties and provide gunfire support and perform surprise bombardment raids on Japanese outposts. Lets' not forget Narwhal SS-167's spec ops, with 15 Battle Stars. Also, these three large 'V' boats were 2700 tons surfaced/4000 submerged. I requested a video on them a while back.
Forget battleships...imagine surfacing 12km from Kure and lobbing 203mm shell at the drydocks...or surfacing near truk and shelling that...or in a slightly augmented reality using her to bombard New York or DC in 1941...that's what she be best at...
So, that's actually a turret, not just two casemated guns with minimal traverse? Hats off to the engineer who got that thing water tight... Also, how much rolling would firing the guns off to one side cause?
I wonder if he did. Given the size of the structure behind, it's possible they just released a latch, and rolled the guns into a non-swivelling shed, somewhat like how carrier-subs store planes.
I imagine they used the same pressurized air subs use to displace water ballast, inside the turret. There hence needn't be much pressure differential between the inside and outside of the rubber gun mantles or turret ring seal. When surfacing they could just vent the pressurised air with pressure valves (like those on pressure cookers). Presumably, they also had sealed non-rotating hatches on the turret's floor for crew access and ammo hoisting.
As a kid looking over my Dad's full-color illustrated submarine book, this was always my favorite sub, for obvious reasons. Thanks for giving a more satisfactory overview compared to the dismissive treatment given by that book. You've ended up raising new questions! Particularly about its role in the capture if the islands, and specifics about its mechanics and gun firing procedures.
There is a novel titled „Strike from the Sea“ which tells the tale of a fictional sister ship of the Surcouf, the Soufriere. Interesting read, if very old-fashioned by today‘s standards. The point of view is very different to „Das Boot“, so the contrast is especially noteworthy.
An excellent episode. I've seen bits & pieces of Surcouf's career in various references. This brought them all together rather nicely. The fine cutaway scale model at the 2:14 mark helps a great deal. Models can provide very good detail, often better than photos of the actual vessel. I would suggest you to include similar models whenever possible. Since we cannot expand the photo, perhaps you could include several zoomed-in shots of the overall picture.
I have a feeling that designing something to meet needs in all three categories resulted in a vessel which didn't do an adequate job fulfilling in any of the categories.
@@lewisdoherty7621 It was designed for two categories, not three. But yeah, that is another experiment showing how dual role ships are nigh impossible to pull off. Still a fascinating design though. It kinda looks like a corsair's grandson fever dream. "I shall rule le waves with my corsair submarine! Hon hon hon!"
Surcouf could have been a fairly successful cruiser submarine if she had survived long enough to actually reach the Pacific. Her nominal diving depth wasn't exceeded until the much later nuclear attack submarines of the USN. She would have been useful for attacking merchant shipping while operating as a normal sub and warships on the surface using her main battery. She was relatively immune to depth charge attack since her great diving depth of almost 600 feet (183 meters) exceeded the capability of Japanese depth charges in early 1942, and she probably could have gone to 900-1000 feet (274-305 meters) without serious risk to the hull, making her effectively immune to underwater attack, at least from the surface. With the addition of some radars and additional night fighting equipment, she could have done a good job of shore bombardment on the many small Japanese outposts in the Pacific, as well as landing raiding and reconnaissance parties using her small boats. All that potential came to nought on the night of February 18 or early morning of the 19th, 1942, while enroute from Halifax to transit the Panama Canal and on to the Pacific. About all we know for sure is the last thing heard of her was a routine position message sent at 1600 on the 18th. The SS Thompson Lykes reported colliding with and running over an underwater object. Unfortunately, this was very early in the war for the US, and there was an unreasonable fear of U-Boats infesting the Caribbean. The crew of the Lykes reported men in the water yelling for help, some in English. Assuming she had hit a U-Boat and not wanting to fall prey to the other German subs assumed to be in the area, she continued on, sending a signal to the Panama Defense Frontier base at Panama City on the night of the 18th. The actual time of the message is still a little murky, but it seems to have been at about 2200. What the Lykes actually hit is still a point of much debate. The damage to the Lykes was described as being not serious enough to have hit a sub the size of Surcouf, and the crew described the object as much smaller than the Surcouf. Postwar records proved no German sub was within hundreds of miles of the point of the collision. Merchant ship crews had virtually no training in warship recognition at that time, and how accurately the crew could have estimated the size of what she hit on a moonless night is open to considerable doubt. Even if Surcouf's main radio antenna had been damaged by the collision, she would have only been about 80 miles (130 km) north of Cristobal, Panama at the time of the collision. Assuming she could remain on the surface, the crew could have rigged up an emergency antenna carried for just such a purpose. She was plenty close enough to Panama that a mayday sent on any of the several longwave and HF emergency channels of the time should have been picked up by someone. In particular, the HF emergency frequencies at night could have been picked up hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Hams and shortwave buffs on the East and Gulf Coasts avidly monitored these bands at night, yet not one reported receiving a mayday that night. Theories abound as to what happened to the Surcouf, and they are easily found on the net. They range from the possible to completely fanciful. I won't get into them here or another book will result. The most likely fate of the boat was she was jumped by a PBY Catalina on routine patrol over the Gulf of Panama. Tropical waters are noted for ships leaving bright luminous wakes, the result of the billions of photo flash plankton that abound in the warm waters. A boat the size of the Surcouf would have left a long, bright, and attractive wake to any patrolling bomber. The crew of the Surcouf was probably maintaining an active surface watch, but there were no enemy aircraft reported anywhere in the Caribbean, so an aerial watch was either not maintained or was very relaxed. The PBY, seeing the wake from many miles off, came in low to attack what it believed to be a large Japanese sub. Stories were current at the time of Japanese subs that exceeded 400 feet (122 meters) and 5,000 tons. While the I-400 class was indeed in this size range, construction didn't even begin until 1943, so none were in the Caribbean. Some ideas of what the Japanese had then came more from "Popular Science" than any official naval briefings. The huge wingspan of the PBY allowed it to cut back power and approach a sub at 100 feet (30 meters) above the surface. The crew of the Surcouf probably never saw or heard the Catalina until is was on its attack run. There were no internationally agreed to recognition signals at the time, and IFF systems were still in the future. The boat's only hope was to dive quickly enough that the PBY would lose it. Diving time for the Surcouf was about three minutes, actually quite fast for a boat of her size and top hamper, but nowhere near fast enough to escape the incoming attack. The PBY was probably carrying four 500 pound (227 kilogram) depth charges and several 100 pound (45 kilogram) bombs. The usual method of attack was to drop the depth charges set to 25 feet (8 meters) first to keep the sub on the surface. If the depth charges didn't sink the boat, the plane would return to attack with bombs. The depth charges would have been devastating to the Surcouf if the attack was accurate, exploding just below the hull of the boat as she attempted to dive. Many German and Japanese subs were sunk during just such attacks. and my guess is the PBY crew, with the Surcouf not taking evasive action on the surface and not having the time to fight back with antiaircraft fire, was the victim of just such an accurate attack, and sank quickly as she was attempting a dive. Many such attacks were reported in the early months of 1942. The PBY, seeing nothing on the surface after she circled back, and seeing no wreckage, probably patrolled the area for a short while, then resumed her patrol after reporting the attack by radio. The vast majority of such attacks in the Caribbean turned out to be schools of dolphins, a whale basking on the surface, and even vast schools of anchovies being herded by predators. I imagine the report was written off to just such an occurrence, one of many logged but never further investigated. The Surcouf was never heard from again, even after a fairly extensive sea and aerial search. The wreck site has never been identified, so all we have left is the theories and the lost souls of about 120 sailors. The wreck would lie below about 9,000 feet (2743 meters). Perhaps, as our underwater detection and exploration improves, we may yet have answers as to what happened to the Surcouf.
@@gloworms3592 I'm hoping that they or some other crew of deep sea mappers will find the wreck. The loss of the Surcouf has been the subject of so many really bizarre conspiracy theories, perhaps second only the the sinking of the Sydney. The location of the wrecks of the Sydney and Kormoran have finally put many of the crazy theories about the loss of both ships to rest. Maybe the location and exploration of the Surcouf can do the same.
@@gloworms3592 Indeed. I will be long gone when that happens, but I hope the young historians now will have the chance to put paid to yet another of the great naval mysteries of our time.
As always, a well-researched, detailed overview of another unique vessel, this time done with British humor (in a jugular vein) take on the thought processes of those daffy French types. Thank you, sir.
love your submarine content would you consider making a guide about kms deutschland she was a world war one blockade runner later converted for commerce raiding the german milch cows of world war 2 would also make a good guide
The Milk-cows are an absolutely neglected niche and i wish so for more information about them. Only once did i mange to get my hands on a book about them and it was written in German. Back then (in 1990ies) my German was very "basic" so i still know nothing about them, apart from being possibly the most boring thing a sailor can serve on.
@@paulwoodman5131 If you could find a Milch Cow, you generally found other U-boats waiting to refuel, rearm and reprovision, so you had a much greater chance of multiple kills
@@klobiforpresident2254 you would think you'd need some pretty good drugs to come up with or sign off on this design. It must have been an epic "roaring 20's" party.
Hello, I live in Ouistreham, Sword Beach. Here resides a French veteran, Leon Gauthier, he sailed on Surcouf then was send to Courbet, wo was interned in England. Leon debarked and helped liberate Ouistreham with the 4th commando. Surcouf was sunk as wave breaker in front of Hermanville-sur-Mer. A section of his mast ws used to make a monument in the port of Ouistreham. Great video. Thanks!
this looks like a logical progression of the Tumblehome hull...a semi sub armored hull with medium heavy guns....i wonder if large deep sea trawler stabilizers on arms would have worked or perhaps as a short fin tri with pod stabilizers etc
Sadly I found that the reports of the ship Thompson Lykes suggested that the submarine may already have been damaged as they heard voices in the water as they hit the sub merged object (unknown submarine) at night. Earlier there was a report by a consolidated PBY (seaplane). Great book Circle of Bones by Christine klinger ???
@@derkrampus9986 And it is FRENCH, imagine the galley stores and wine cellar. In my career, I encountered the French equivalent of both C-Rations and MRE's. Quite good, I thought. The absolute dregs was the German "Cheeseburger In a Can". I won't subject you to a description, you can look it up on line. Although it was gone before my time, the French also had Vinogel - jellied concentrated red wine. You added it to your canteen, added water and voila! At Dien Bien Phu, the French made an airdrop that landed behind Viet Minh lines. The Legion ferociously attacked and recaptured the Vinogel, so every legionnaire could have wine to drink the next day, which was Camerone Day, the holiest day of the year in the Legion. It is celebrated with a formal ceremony followed by what has been described as "a sort of orderly military orgy". I have seen a former Viet Minh officer say that, with enough sugar, Vinogel wasn't bad.
It is not HMS X1, as she had 2 open-topped turrets, and it's not HMS M1, who only had one gun in her turret, so I'm confused as to what submarine that could be if it were not surcouf
@@saynomore8795 Its fictional I-507 submarine from Japanese movie Lorelei I-507:Witch of the pacific. Its meant to be one of prototype brought from Nazi germany during the war and has 2x203mm gun 2x37mm Flak, and at least 12 torpedo launchers + 2 extra torpedoes in mini submarine that you can see even in pic behind tower.
If this poor thing was in multiple battles in the end, I can see them after the first two saying... "...'tis only a scratch!". Well done and informative. Making a model of this machine right now...
I remember reading in a book on the British cruiser submarine X-1 that the French version had to jack up the turret after surfacing before it could be used. In addition, due to the guns, she had a high meta centric height which gave her an excessive roll.
Yes!!!! I get to be one of the first to watch Drach’s new video!!! Your videos are some of my favorites. Excellent research + dry-sarcastic humor= the best history channel on UA-cam. Thank you sir. -Okie from Muskogee (home of The USS Batfish)
I covered the Free French naval forces a bit in this past weeks special, but I could schedule a more in-depth discussion on the French Navy in WW2 for a later special?
Nice episode thanks! Id always read that she was accidentally rammed by a freighter, but it sounds like her number was well and truly up by then. That gyroplane looks amazing, right out of an Orwell novel/Film!
I don’t know why, but have always had a soft spot in my heart for the weird submarine projects. Surcouf, I-400, Typhoon, Hunley (lol), N1(I think that was the name?). I think it would have been interesting if cruiser submarines had been successful in WW2, as it would be hilarious to see modern day subs armed with 5-7 Railgun turrets. Or hell maybe the Japanese would have made an I-500 with a Yamato turret! Well, wishful thinking at least...
My Father was in the Sonar / Radar/ Radio room on a various HMCS Corvettes and is pretty sure that the Surcouf went Vichy and was sunk by Allies near St. Pierre Miquelon. He remembered being in a group hunting a huge signal underwater. They evidently chased it for sometime after some ships were hit right outside the St. Lawrence... He also stated that there was a very hush hush about the chase at the time as well.
@@me67galaxylife would we? Would America be all ready to roll into Europe if the People they were liberating were Nazi sympathisers? All I know is what my dad said, and you dont sink something with a huge sonar signal and then arrive at harbour and be told it was "just and exercise"
Twin 8" and three different torp racks on the surface, plus a spotter plane, AA and possibly the hallmark French cruiser 20% speed boosts and main battery reload booster. She'd be a freaky boat but a fun one.
HMS Hermes (R12)? It might make for a well timed ship review as the ship in question still exists but is currently at risk of going to the scrapyard, though I am aware of a rich former crew member launching an appeal to save the ship, and who knows this channel might be the ideal platform to help do just that. Even without the current relevance HMS Hermes is a worthy ship to review as she has gone on to be the longest serving aircraft carrier in history, one of if the first vetol carrier in history (Thank you Hawker Sidley Harrier Jump Jet) and was the flagship of the Falklands fleet in 1982 and is thus an integral part to one of Britians proudest moments in recent history.
Yeah. Ask the Russians they' also had submersible plane. No joke. No touche. The flying tank and submersible plane are real Russian military projects during WW2.
"Ask Russian, they have flying tank (an A-40)" They really did have a "Flying Tank", and it is of legend! (Should be a UA-cam on it somewhere...) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2
Thanks for this. I've always been interested in this vessel. What does it mean at 10:12 when the vlog creator says "these are just reports for which some confirmation of the activities of the attacking or accidentally ramming ships can actually be made"? I'm not sure what this sentence actually means. I think it's to indicate that there are even more, unconfirmed, reports from other ships in the area, either striking or attacking a submarine that night (he mentions "all four", but only two reports were from other ships). Instead, it may also imply that the aerial claims and sighting were unconfirmed?
The cruiser submarine is such a cool concept, really would have wished that naval treaty wouldn't have gone trough to see what other cruiser-subs would have emerged from it. Also i had known of the Sourcouf for a long time, it hugely inspired my submarine designs in from the depths, but i never knew it's story or what happened to it, thanks for sharing it!
Ahh From the Depths, where I can slap jets underneath a BB and make an epic airship. At least when your comment was written I could. They've changed the game so much in the past few years *none* of my old flying BB designs work any more at ALL. 😅
I always wondered what happened to her after the st Pierre incident ...I’m surprised there has been no great quest like titanic or Bismarck to find such a unique naval piece of history ....now I wonder !!!! What a great mystery
because for the bismark or the titanic, their route was more or less known, and there were reports confirming the identity of the ship and the general area where they sank as said for the surcouf, it didn't follow a precise route and there are 4 different instances of someone encountering a "possible submarine" that "may or may not be the surcouf"
"Le Surcouf disparut corps et biens dans la nuit du 18 au 19 février 1942 au nord du canal de Panama, par 11° nord et 79° ouest, peu après son appareillage des Bermudes, le 12 février." fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surcouf_(sous-marin)
Well, the Marine Nationale has over the years shown an interest in the unusual. One has to wonder at the engineering required to make such a vessel actually function. That said though, I would hate to think of such a large ungainly ship having to engage another submarine. And ultimately, one has to think of the crew that took her out on that final voyage. At one point, I did fall to the temptation to get snarky about "Surcouf", but we shouldn't forget that brave men manned this ship, and met their end when she was lost, men that the government in Vichy probably called traitors. She was a flawed ship, but she was fighting the good fight. That should count for something.
Yes, her long range and room for ample stores were tailor made for the Pacific. I imagine she would have been based in French Polynesia and fallen under the operational control of COMSUBSOWESTPAC in Australia, possibly refueling and resupplying there before going on patrol, the same way Pearl based boats used Midway. Also, her passenger compartment would have made her ideal for smuggling agents and supplies for guerillas into the Philippines. You could ditch the seaplane and use her hanger for even more supplies and use the boat to land both them and the agents
It's not a helicopter. Autogyros (where propulsion is due to the propeller, not the rotating 'wing' or rotor) were sort of common in the 30s, until a reliable method of actually powering and controlling the rotor was devised. Uncommon today, they live on as small 'gyrocopters'. One landed on the White House lawn a few years ago and caused a pretty big stink until it was established to not have been a threat.
@@jamestheotherone742 it's not as bad as all that. it is not the actual submarine i'm talking about it is the concept a sub that is bigger than a attack sub but smaller than a ballistic sub something that has a good land attack capability as well as anti ship role
Drachinfel , has anybody told you your voice sounds like a early 60’s cartoon character Mr Peabody from Peabody’s Improbable Adventures lol . Love your show ,keep up the great work !
judges at british trial : "You French people fight for money. While we English fight for honor!" Surcouf replied, "Everyone fights for what they lack."
It would be quite a find to know where she rests. I have to wonder if there is some back burner research going on. Maybe some amateur sleuths will locate the area the sub went down.
My father saw this submarine come up the Thames River in Groton, CT. He said everyone stopped what they where doing and stared. It was huge and stunningly different than the boats he helped build. He worked at Electric Boat for the duration of the war. The French crew was hosted by local families while the boat was in for repairs. Now I start the rumors as they where relayed to me by my father years ago before he passed. The Surcouf took on fuel in Groton and went out on patrol. When they returned to refuel some did some calculating and got the idea that the boat used far more fuel than it could of burned for the time it was away. One or two US subs tailed the Surcouf when it went on patrol again and they caught them refueling a German sub. Torpedoes fired. That is how I remember him telling the story. Keep in mind these are shipyard rumors, not hard and fast facts.
I clearly don't see how they could get into contact with german subs, nor how they could set up this kind of operation while being in allied territory. Also there was british officers in board, you're telling that out of the 130 men inside the submarine, not a single one would have inform higher ranks ?
Submarine come cruiser come carrier. It's a one ship navy. One theory is she was sunk by one of her crew who was a Vichy supporter. Though how you would prove that without any proof I don't know. And no one has put forward any evidence, such as one of the crew telling his loved ones what he intended, it will just remain a 'man in the pub' claim.
Big Blue another theory without any proof is that the whole crew was loyal to Vichy and while supplied by the allies at sea they were sinking allied merchants (I think I remember to have read that the reason for this theory were quite a number of unexplained losses when the Surcouf was in the certain area). I think, it’s rather far fetched but it could make a great movie
@@Trantor Or given the known design flaws, maybe something catastrophic overwhelmed the sub as we do know there was a underwater explosion most likely the Surcouf imploding after sinking beyond her crush depth of 1600 feet
She went into the Bermuda Triangle, and is fighting zombie Nazis to this very day, hoping from wormhole to wormhole till she finds their base. - that's my head canon, anyway.
I would love to see you do an episode on the interwar British 'K-Boats'... A submarine powered by STEAM! (and curiously armed somewhat similarly to the subject of this video.)
" Go away or shall have to taunt you a second time." Nice Monty python drop man.
Favorite part of the video
Monty Python is the best
He's already got one
@@tonybennett1306 He's already got one?!?!?!
Mr. Pants And it’s very nice
French: "We put a plane into a submarine"
Japan: *takes notes*
Can you say I-400?
But who was first ?
@@herauthon Britain with HMS M2 at 1927.
@@BattleshipWarspitewrong it was USS S-1 With martin MS floatplane 1923
"Any ship that sees combat has the potential to become a more-or-less voluntary submarine. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with my 13,000ton, 600' long *submarine* with a 4.7'' main belt and 8 8' guns in 4 twin turrets.
On an unrelated note, our heavy cruiser "Algerie" has suddenly disappeared and we ask to be allowed to build a replacement."
- French Naval Architect that had come up with a cunning plan (ca. 1936)
Imagine if all four DID happen to that sub in a single night. That was a bad night to be a Free French Submariner.
So uncivilised.
Surcouf, The only sub to ever shoot an albatross, sail under a ladder, cross the path of a black cat (ships cat presumably) and break the captains mirror all on the same night. ;-(
And no reports of any of the four seeing any others of the four? Hmm... That's pushing coincidence just a bit...
Well it will be more like one then the other and the next and then what finally kill it was a merchant ship not all at the same time maybe let's say like 2 hour apart
@@cvproj They are unlikely to be reporting at the same time. Its more the idea that a damaged surcouf from one incident is dead in the water/forced to remain on the surface. It's then attacked in one or more of the following incidents..
“How should we improve range on this sub?”
“Why not a long pole, we could just take it down when not is use.”
“No, too complicated, how about a plane?”
🤔 Look, the designers of this sub made an obvious mistake. Sure, it was a good idea to add a twin 8" gun turret, and a pretty good idea to add a single float plane and launcher. But they missed out on a PERFECT opportunity to install a large floating flight deck to the rear of the sub! It should've been at least 500 feet long, with a lower hanger to stow at least 32 various planes, and 2-3 large plane elevators. The planes would be water-tight.
😀👍 Ballast tanks underneath would've been quickly filled with water in times of air or surface attack, so that both the sub AND the 500 foot long flight deck could submerge and hide under water. It would've been attached to the sub via an extendable cable.
I don't think it was that the long pole would be complicated or impractical, they probably realized right from the beginning that anyone stationed up there would probably get a headache within 5 minutes due to the excessively violent sway that a sub undergoes when it's on the surface.
@@the_undead Exactly. Not only that, even if they had just placed a very long telescope sight so nobody had to be up there, whoever would be watching through the sights from down in the conning tower would het a headache trying to aim though a sight that moves six meters to each side every few seconds.
@@HighlanderNorth1 - hooked on strong chains... the planes follow-floated the whole construct while it struggled through the high seas -
where the engines burned the year produce of diesel and oil - great choice !
My theory is that the Surcouf went into a time vortex and travelled back around a century, and became the inspiration for the Nautilus in 20,000 leagues under the sea.
Surcouf: Sails into Bermuda Triangle
Aliens: I've _got_ to get me one of these!
well it didn't really sailed into the Bermuda Triangle
its obvious that it was sunk by another ship or submarine
@@hevendor958 it was sunk in an accidental collision, rammed by a us ship commercial one if i remember correctly.
well those are theories that we may never know what happened to Surcouf
@@hevendor958 Well, the Thompson Lykes hit _something._ No one else's submarines went missing. It probably plowed through a French submarine. If it wasn't the Thompson Lykes, the 6th Heavy Bomber Squadron based out of Panama reported sinking a large submarine, but there's no record of any German activity in that area at that time. Those are the two most likely fates.
@@magisterrleth3129 yeah but the submarine the Thompson Lykes hit was described as being smaller than Surcouf
Engineer: do you want Cruiser or Submarine?
French navy: yes
Result was a very very happy Engineer
@@Lintary Who proceeded to design an aircraft carrier in there just for the fun of it.
@@benbaselet2026 Cause you know I am an Engineer he said.
A: We don’t care as long as it has a 3⭐️Michelin Restaurant and a well stocked Wine cellar.
You can imagine the meeting when they came up with it. A dark, smoke-filled room with bored looking French naval officers. One says 'ow about a submarine... zat is also a cruiser?' The others shrug and nod before all of them set off for a three hour lunch.
Looks like it should be in one of the newer wolfenstien games.
it does have that certain sort of retro-future-y look to it.
@@dndboy13 The interwar French stuff all seems too.
Pretty sure somebody over there stumbled across an image of it. The base in the second game is a massive submarine and I'm pretty sure that has turrets
Now do one on the MN Souffle!
It certainly has an Indiana Jones look to it. Can you imagine an action sequence with the Surcouf? It's be awesome.
What a gorgeous ship, I love these (slightly) insane monstrosities :D
The French Navy have always had a liking for slightly insane monstrosities, checkout the French pre-dreadnoughts
psst they need to make great great gradchildren to surcouf its to dumb an idea to make only 1 of.
I can't believe it was only 3500tons, it looks much bigger.
Never mind how impractical it is, that's one badass looking submarine!
I really do hope the wreck of the Surcouf is found soon. Shes one of the great mysteries from WW2 that's still unsolved.
I need to look up how deep the water is where she might of gone down and if there have been any serious efforts to find her. Probably a pretty hard/expensive job.
@@Swarm509 it'd be wonderful to find her, hopefully in deep water, so she could be safe from scrappers.
ALWAYS wondered bout her, such a shame,she NEEDS to be be found
We found Titanic, Bismark, Yorktown, Lexington, both Yamatos etc. So, it should be fairly easy to find a mass as large as Surcouf in the Gulf of Mexico. The magnetic signature,alone, would be a hint. But, the Hunley was missing over a century, right off the beach from Charleston, SC.
@Stuart Aaron That, and the fact that the ocean is big. Really, really big. And the fact that Surcouf AFAIK was not following a precise set course.
We haven’t found the Kido Butai carriers and a ton of other major warships.....
Edit: we have found CarDiv1 now.
😳 yeah..... easy......
@@bkjeong4302 Not to mention all the Bermuda Triangle stuff never found. Easy to find? We still have not found MH 370.😑
Man if only I had the resources to dedicate to searching for this gorgeous french monster. I could have meant to find the Godzilla too, but I mean this boat.
A shame it didn't make it to the Pacific, imagine how surprised a Japanese Battleship would have been if this surfaced beside it at night and began to fire 8" shells into it's side at a range of 30 meters!
I would be rather surprised if the Japanese battleship would not make at least some threatening gestures against an unknown warship preparing her guns for firing for several minutes 30 meters away.
I'm not sure 30 meters was inside the range of those guns.
@@Thirdbase9 Not the main ones, but I'm sure they had something to deal hurts to a cardboard box :-)
@William Signs Good point. Surcouf could carry a lot of supplies for guerrilla units, evacuate refugees, land raiding parties and provide gunfire support and perform surprise bombardment raids on Japanese outposts.
Lets' not forget Narwhal SS-167's spec ops, with 15 Battle Stars. Also, these three large 'V' boats were 2700 tons surfaced/4000 submerged.
I requested a video on them a while back.
Forget battleships...imagine surfacing 12km from Kure and lobbing 203mm shell at the drydocks...or surfacing near truk and shelling that...or in a slightly augmented reality using her to bombard New York or DC in 1941...that's what she be best at...
So, that's actually a turret, not just two casemated guns with minimal traverse?
Hats off to the engineer who got that thing water tight...
Also, how much rolling would firing the guns off to one side cause?
I wonder if he did. Given the size of the structure behind, it's possible they just released a latch, and rolled the guns into a non-swivelling shed, somewhat like how carrier-subs store planes.
It is a turret, it looks like it has a (270) degree arc of fire in pictures with the turret traversed.
It is a fantastic beast.
I imagine they used the same pressurized air subs use to displace water ballast, inside the turret. There hence needn't be much pressure differential between the inside and outside of the rubber gun mantles or turret ring seal. When surfacing they could just vent the pressurised air with pressure valves (like those on pressure cookers).
Presumably, they also had sealed non-rotating hatches on the turret's floor for crew access and ammo hoisting.
@@BeKindToBirds Looking at the blueprints suggests a 270 degree arc of fire.
Firing forward dramatically increased it's reverse speed I'm sure.
The Surcouf is one of my favourite naval dead ends.
cruiser-carrier-submarine
so it carries whole cruisers?
NoName And lunches destroyers with it's destroyer like armament.
Its also a submarine carrier, so it can carry submarines
Instead of launching torpedoes she launches cruiser sized french Destroyers at the enemy.
1/1200 scale ones should be no problem.....(Any old style war gamers here?)
Avalon Hill Board Gamer!
Confirmation that the French Navy never disappoints with it's bringing WTF designs to fruition!
Partially inspired by British M class submarines
All of the weaknesses of a cruiser and a submarine!
As a kid looking over my Dad's full-color illustrated submarine book, this was always my favorite sub, for obvious reasons.
Thanks for giving a more satisfactory overview compared to the dismissive treatment given by that book.
You've ended up raising new questions! Particularly about its role in the capture if the islands, and specifics about its mechanics and gun firing procedures.
I can see someone popping up from the top of the conning tower and saying, “Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!”
With a John Cleese outrageous accent?
Feiora is there any other way?
A film of the ramming and the 3 attacks would be epic in a "French Ending" kind of way...
When it comes to serious Naval matters, the French have such a delightful sense of humor.
Gotta love that blueprint with the service boat .
The monty python reference made me happy.
Submarine, Cruiser, Carrier.
Why not add a 15inch gun and some depth charges and call the thing "Bingo!"
Would Sir like a 14" gun on that crushing hand of God?
I would like to present you sir, the M-class submarine of the RN
Now all we have to do is work out how to make it a trimarang and the USN can use it as a frigate... How hard can it be?
There is a novel titled „Strike from the Sea“ which tells the tale of a fictional sister ship of the Surcouf, the Soufriere. Interesting read, if very old-fashioned by today‘s standards. The point of view is very different to „Das Boot“, so the contrast is especially noteworthy.
By Douglas Reeman.....😉 on my book shelf.
A good read. Description of the fall of Singapore is very well done.
I have it too. I thought it was a great book and in the book, it is capable of doing what the French intended when it was built. Very fun.
@@WALTERBROADDUS mine too.
Top tier recommendation. Thanks!
An excellent episode. I've seen bits & pieces of Surcouf's career in various references. This brought them all together rather nicely.
The fine cutaway scale model at the 2:14 mark helps a great deal. Models can provide very good detail, often better than photos of the actual vessel. I would suggest you to include similar models whenever possible. Since we cannot expand the photo, perhaps you could include several zoomed-in shots of the overall picture.
A very interesting and hard to catch Commerce Raider.
The world- Do you want an Aircraft Carrier, Cruiser, or Submarine?
France- "Yes"
we
I have a feeling that designing something to meet needs in all three categories resulted in a vessel which didn't do an adequate job fulfilling in any of the categories.
@@lewisdoherty7621 It was designed for two categories, not three. But yeah, that is another experiment showing how dual role ships are nigh impossible to pull off. Still a fascinating design though. It kinda looks like a corsair's grandson fever dream. "I shall rule le waves with my corsair submarine! Hon hon hon!"
Sad we never got battleship/submarine hybrids.
Surcouf could have been a fairly successful cruiser submarine if she had survived long enough to actually reach the Pacific. Her nominal diving depth wasn't exceeded until the much later nuclear attack submarines of the USN. She would have been useful for attacking merchant shipping while operating as a normal sub and warships on the surface using her main battery. She was relatively immune to depth charge attack since her great diving depth of almost 600 feet (183 meters) exceeded the capability of Japanese depth charges in early 1942, and she probably could have gone to 900-1000 feet (274-305 meters) without serious risk to the hull, making her effectively immune to underwater attack, at least from the surface. With the addition of some radars and additional night fighting equipment, she could have done a good job of shore bombardment on the many small Japanese outposts in the Pacific, as well as landing raiding and reconnaissance parties using her small boats.
All that potential came to nought on the night of February 18 or early morning of the 19th, 1942, while enroute from Halifax to transit the Panama Canal and on to the Pacific. About all we know for sure is the last thing heard of her was a routine position message sent at 1600 on the 18th. The SS Thompson Lykes reported colliding with and running over an underwater object. Unfortunately, this was very early in the war for the US, and there was an unreasonable fear of U-Boats infesting the Caribbean. The crew of the Lykes reported men in the water yelling for help, some in English. Assuming she had hit a U-Boat and not wanting to fall prey to the other German subs assumed to be in the area, she continued on, sending a signal to the Panama Defense Frontier base at Panama City on the night of the 18th. The actual time of the message is still a little murky, but it seems to have been at about 2200. What the Lykes actually hit is still a point of much debate. The damage to the Lykes was described as being not serious enough to have hit a sub the size of Surcouf, and the crew described the object as much smaller than the Surcouf. Postwar records proved no German sub was within hundreds of miles of the point of the collision. Merchant ship crews had virtually no training in warship recognition at that time, and how accurately the crew could have estimated the size of what she hit on a moonless night is open to considerable doubt. Even if Surcouf's main radio antenna had been damaged by the collision, she would have only been about 80 miles (130 km) north of Cristobal, Panama at the time of the collision. Assuming she could remain on the surface, the crew could have rigged up an emergency antenna carried for just such a purpose. She was plenty close enough to Panama that a mayday sent on any of the several longwave and HF emergency channels of the time should have been picked up by someone. In particular, the HF emergency frequencies at night could have been picked up hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Hams and shortwave buffs on the East and Gulf Coasts avidly monitored these bands at night, yet not one reported receiving a mayday that night.
Theories abound as to what happened to the Surcouf, and they are easily found on the net. They range from the possible to completely fanciful. I won't get into them here or another book will result. The most likely fate of the boat was she was jumped by a PBY Catalina on routine patrol over the Gulf of Panama. Tropical waters are noted for ships leaving bright luminous wakes, the result of the billions of photo flash plankton that abound in the warm waters. A boat the size of the Surcouf would have left a long, bright, and attractive wake to any patrolling bomber. The crew of the Surcouf was probably maintaining an active surface watch, but there were no enemy aircraft reported anywhere in the Caribbean, so an aerial watch was either not maintained or was very relaxed. The PBY, seeing the wake from many miles off, came in low to attack what it believed to be a large Japanese sub. Stories were current at the time of Japanese subs that exceeded 400 feet (122 meters) and 5,000 tons. While the I-400 class was indeed in this size range, construction didn't even begin until 1943, so none were in the Caribbean. Some ideas of what the Japanese had then came more from "Popular Science" than any official naval briefings.
The huge wingspan of the PBY allowed it to cut back power and approach a sub at 100 feet (30 meters) above the surface. The crew of the Surcouf probably never saw or heard the Catalina until is was on its attack run. There were no internationally agreed to recognition signals at the time, and IFF systems were still in the future. The boat's only hope was to dive quickly enough that the PBY would lose it. Diving time for the Surcouf was about three minutes, actually quite fast for a boat of her size and top hamper, but nowhere near fast enough to escape the incoming attack. The PBY was probably carrying four 500 pound (227 kilogram) depth charges and several 100 pound (45 kilogram) bombs. The usual method of attack was to drop the depth charges set to 25 feet (8 meters) first to keep the sub on the surface. If the depth charges didn't sink the boat, the plane would return to attack with bombs. The depth charges would have been devastating to the Surcouf if the attack was accurate, exploding just below the hull of the boat as she attempted to dive. Many German and Japanese subs were sunk during just such attacks. and my guess is the PBY crew, with the Surcouf not taking evasive action on the surface and not having the time to fight back with antiaircraft fire, was the victim of just such an accurate attack, and sank quickly as she was attempting a dive.
Many such attacks were reported in the early months of 1942. The PBY, seeing nothing on the surface after she circled back, and seeing no wreckage, probably patrolled the area for a short while, then resumed her patrol after reporting the attack by radio. The vast majority of such attacks in the Caribbean turned out to be schools of dolphins, a whale basking on the surface, and even vast schools of anchovies being herded by predators. I imagine the report was written off to just such an occurrence, one of many logged but never further investigated. The Surcouf was never heard from again, even after a fairly extensive sea and aerial search. The wreck site has never been identified, so all we have left is the theories and the lost souls of about 120 sailors. The wreck would lie below about 9,000 feet (2743 meters). Perhaps, as our underwater detection and exploration improves, we may yet have answers as to what happened to the Surcouf.
Interesting speculation, perhaps the crew that found the Musashi should have a go and see what they can find.
@@gloworms3592 I'm hoping that they or some other crew of deep sea mappers will find the wreck. The loss of the Surcouf has been the subject of so many really bizarre conspiracy theories, perhaps second only the the sinking of the Sydney. The location of the wrecks of the Sydney and Kormoran have finally put many of the crazy theories about the loss of both ships to rest. Maybe the location and exploration of the Surcouf can do the same.
Sar Jim Hell, any new wreck found adds to history, so I’m all for it.
@@gloworms3592 Indeed. I will be long gone when that happens, but I hope the young historians now will have the chance to put paid to yet another of the great naval mysteries of our time.
Maybe you can help Drach with research and writing? Would take a load off his shoulders.
As always, a well-researched, detailed overview of another unique vessel, this time done with British humor (in a jugular vein) take on the thought processes of those daffy French types. Thank you, sir.
This ship would make a great setting for the 3rd season of The Terror.
love your submarine content would you consider making a guide about kms deutschland she was a world war one blockade runner later converted for commerce raiding the german milch cows of world war 2 would also make a good guide
The Milk-cows are an absolutely neglected niche and i wish so for more information about them.
Only once did i mange to get my hands on a book about them and it was written in German. Back then (in 1990ies) my German was very "basic" so i still know nothing about them, apart from being possibly the most boring thing a sailor can serve on.
@@estoyaqui5386 dangerous also as they were hunted down relentlessly.
@@paulwoodman5131 If you could find a Milch Cow, you generally found other U-boats waiting to refuel, rearm and reprovision, so you had a much greater chance of multiple kills
As an aside, Kuf in Swedish is dialect for someone a bit odd, making it sound like Sir Weird.
Lives up to its name.
Ahaha, thanks for this hint, this is gold :D
Named for famed French privateer Robert Surcouf.
Odd is a common first name in Norway :P
Here we don't say privateer. We say corsair 😉. But yeah, this was that one guy. Also good at taunting.
So it wasn't just "go home Marine Nationale, you're drunk" but gaming the naval treaty system?
crimfan And then the next naval treaty said “Go home Surcouf(and other cruiser subs), your drunk”
Both.
Everyone was doing it.
@@jamestheotherone742
Ridiculous submarines or coke? Or was one just the product of the other?
@@klobiforpresident2254 you would think you'd need some pretty good drugs to come up with or sign off on this design. It must have been an epic "roaring 20's" party.
Hello, I live in Ouistreham, Sword Beach. Here resides a French veteran, Leon Gauthier, he sailed on Surcouf then was send to Courbet, wo was interned in England. Leon debarked and helped liberate Ouistreham with the 4th commando. Surcouf was sunk as wave breaker in front of Hermanville-sur-Mer. A section of his mast ws used to make a monument in the port of Ouistreham. Great video. Thanks!
Pinned post for Q&A :)
EDIT: the picture at 8:20 is not Surcouf, it slipped into the image collection at some unknown date. Apologies
In the second world war, which German surface ship would least like to have served on and why?
Oh my fucking god imagine if all you 4 happened to it! Jesus christ face palms
when comes meme ships
Could the MN Surcouf have benefited from pneumatic guns like the USS Vesuvius and then be used for stealth shore bombardment?
How about a short bit on USS McKeesport, part of the Baltimore-class heavy cruisers?
Geez Louise. Just when you think you've seen it all, this thing comes steaming out of the mist. Bizarre.
thats when you turn guns and fire, clearly its some nightmarish abomination born from the depths from the hulks of subs, cruisers and carriers!
this looks like a logical progression of the Tumblehome hull...a semi sub armored hull with medium heavy guns....i wonder if large deep sea trawler stabilizers on arms would have worked or perhaps as a short fin tri with pod stabilizers etc
That's one slick-looking vessel.
Beau travail chers ancêtres.
Beautiful Submarine. A lot of flair and great design. My grandfather served in american subs in the pacific in WW2.
Sadly I found that the reports of the ship Thompson Lykes suggested that the submarine may already have been damaged as they heard voices in the water as they hit the sub merged object (unknown submarine) at night. Earlier there was a report by a consolidated PBY (seaplane). Great book Circle of Bones by Christine klinger ???
I love your information, but tell us more about habitation.
Ex-Navy here.
I think that Douglas Reeman wrote a fictional story about this behemoth, "Strike from the sea".
I imagine crew accommodations must have been uncomfortable.
@@derkrampus9986 You may be right. I missed the extra-accomodations before I made my first post.
@@derkrampus9986 And it is FRENCH, imagine the galley stores and wine cellar. In my career, I encountered the French equivalent of both C-Rations and MRE's. Quite good, I thought. The absolute dregs was the German "Cheeseburger In a Can". I won't subject you to a description, you can look it up on line. Although it was gone before my time, the French also had Vinogel - jellied concentrated red wine. You added it to your canteen, added water and voila! At Dien Bien Phu, the French made an airdrop that landed behind Viet Minh lines. The Legion ferociously attacked and recaptured the Vinogel, so every legionnaire could have wine to drink the next day, which was Camerone Day, the holiest day of the year in the Legion. It is celebrated with a formal ceremony followed by what has been described as "a sort of orderly military orgy". I have seen a former Viet Minh officer say that, with enough sugar, Vinogel wasn't bad.
At 8:16, that is not the Sourcouf. One other interwar submarine to consider would be the HMS X1which was commissioned in 1925 and scrapped in 1936.
I'm sure pics of the Sorcouf are pretty hard to come by.
It is not HMS X1, as she had 2 open-topped turrets, and it's not HMS M1, who only had one gun in her turret, so I'm confused as to what submarine that could be if it were not surcouf
@@saynomore8795 Its fictional I-507 submarine from Japanese movie Lorelei I-507:Witch of the pacific.
Its meant to be one of prototype brought from Nazi germany during the war and has 2x203mm gun 2x37mm Flak, and at least 12 torpedo launchers + 2 extra torpedoes in mini submarine that you can see even in pic behind tower.
HMS X-1 was the only RN vessel commissioned AND scrapped between the world wars
It is a very cool looking ship, and I think it shows some imaginative thinking. Would love to find a model kit of this one.
Doubt we'll see Tamiya, etc making a kit any time soon, but who knows. Trumpeter or someone may already have one.
If this poor thing was in multiple battles in the end, I can see them after the first two saying...
"...'tis only a scratch!". Well done and informative. Making a model of this machine right now...
I hope they find her someday, I always liked the Surcouf.
I remember reading in a book on the British cruiser submarine X-1 that the French version had to jack up the turret after surfacing before it could be used. In addition, due to the guns, she had a high meta centric height which gave her an excessive roll.
International committee: So, what are you building?
Marine Nationale: Oui.
MN: "Everything"
If we told you, you wouldn't believe anyway. *twirls moustache*
Yes!!!! I get to be one of the first to watch Drach’s new video!!! Your videos are some of my favorites. Excellent research + dry-sarcastic humor= the best history channel on UA-cam. Thank you sir.
-Okie from Muskogee (home of The USS Batfish)
In the future could you speak on the details of the status of the French navy after the surrender? Your short anecdote was not enough!
I covered the Free French naval forces a bit in this past weeks special, but I could schedule a more in-depth discussion on the French Navy in WW2 for a later special?
@@Drachinifel Sounds particularly awesome!
hope some diving expedition discovers this ship someday soon....would love to see that
You make super good video's, love em!
Nice episode thanks! Id always read that she was accidentally rammed by a freighter, but it sounds like her number was well and truly up by then. That gyroplane looks amazing, right out of an Orwell novel/Film!
If Leiji Matsumoto wanted a Cosmo Navy subspace submarine he should look at this sub.
"Rules Lawyer"? Hah!!! I new it, you are a Grognard!
I don’t know why, but have always had a soft spot in my heart for the weird submarine projects. Surcouf, I-400, Typhoon, Hunley (lol), N1(I think that was the name?). I think it would have been interesting if cruiser submarines had been successful in WW2, as it would be hilarious to see modern day subs armed with 5-7 Railgun turrets. Or hell maybe the Japanese would have made an I-500 with a Yamato turret! Well, wishful thinking at least...
My Father was in the Sonar / Radar/ Radio room on a various HMCS Corvettes and is pretty sure that the Surcouf went Vichy and was sunk by Allies near St. Pierre Miquelon. He remembered being in a group hunting a huge signal underwater. They evidently chased it for sometime after some ships were hit right outside the St. Lawrence... He also stated that there was a very hush hush about the chase at the time as well.
I’m not sure it would go vichy in *1942*, and if it was the case we would know
@@me67galaxylife would we? Would America be all ready to roll into Europe if the People they were liberating were Nazi sympathisers? All I know is what my dad said, and you dont sink something with a huge sonar signal and then arrive at harbour and be told it was "just and exercise"
Well at least we know what the future tier 10 french premium sub will be in WoW.
Imagine it having the "feature" of being removed without a trace one minute before the game ends.
Twin 8" and three different torp racks on the surface, plus a spotter plane, AA and possibly the hallmark French cruiser 20% speed boosts and main battery reload booster. She'd be a freaky boat but a fun one.
woah, this is some Blake and Mortimer design if I ever seen one. Good stuff, was completely oblivious to the existence of this submarine. Thank you!
HMS Hermes (R12)? It might make for a well timed ship review as the ship in question still exists but is currently at risk of going to the scrapyard, though I am aware of a rich former crew member launching an appeal to save the ship, and who knows this channel might be the ideal platform to help do just that.
Even without the current relevance HMS Hermes is a worthy ship to review as she has gone on to be the longest serving aircraft carrier in history, one of if the first vetol carrier in history (Thank you Hawker Sidley Harrier Jump Jet) and was the flagship of the Falklands fleet in 1982 and is thus an integral part to one of Britians proudest moments in recent history.
Like so much of life. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Also, could the MN Sorcouf had benefited from pneumatic guns like the USS Vesuvius and then be used for stealth shore bombardment?
That's too much. Even for the French.
Ask Russian, they have flying tank (an A-40)
Touché, of course I’m a little disappointed they didn’t try in either case.
Yeah. Ask the Russians they' also had submersible plane.
No joke. No touche. The flying tank and submersible plane are real Russian military projects during WW2.
"Ask Russian, they have flying tank (an A-40)"
They really did have a "Flying Tank", and it is of legend! (Should be a UA-cam on it somewhere...)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2
You get eleven out of ten on your sense (cents) of humor. Cheers mate.
Thanks for this. I've always been interested in this vessel. What does it mean at 10:12 when the vlog creator says "these are just reports for which some confirmation of the activities of the attacking or accidentally ramming ships can actually be made"? I'm not sure what this sentence actually means. I think it's to indicate that there are even more, unconfirmed, reports from other ships in the area, either striking or attacking a submarine that night (he mentions "all four", but only two reports were from other ships). Instead, it may also imply that the aerial claims and sighting were unconfirmed?
"Surcouf was the embodiment of rules lawyering."
I have found my spirit animal.
Have you thought about doing a video on the USS Nautilus-not the nuclear sub but the semi-cruiser sub?
The cruiser submarine is such a cool concept, really would have wished that naval treaty wouldn't have gone trough to see what other cruiser-subs would have emerged from it.
Also i had known of the Sourcouf for a long time, it hugely inspired my submarine designs in from the depths, but i never knew it's story or what happened to it, thanks for sharing it!
Ahh From the Depths, where I can slap jets underneath a BB and make an epic airship.
At least when your comment was written I could. They've changed the game so much in the past few years *none* of my old flying BB designs work any more at ALL. 😅
I always wondered what happened to her after the st Pierre incident ...I’m surprised there has been no great quest like titanic or Bismarck to find such a unique naval piece of history ....now I wonder !!!! What a great mystery
because for the bismark or the titanic, their route was more or less known, and there were reports confirming the identity of the ship and the general area where they sank
as said for the surcouf, it didn't follow a precise route and there are 4 different instances of someone encountering a "possible submarine" that "may or may not be the surcouf"
"Le Surcouf disparut corps et biens dans la nuit du 18 au 19 février 1942 au nord du canal de Panama, par 11° nord et 79° ouest, peu après son appareillage des Bermudes, le 12 février." fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surcouf_(sous-marin)
Been looking forwards to this one for a long time, Drach! THANK YOU!!!
Well, the Marine Nationale has over the years shown an interest in the unusual. One has to wonder at the engineering required to make such a vessel actually function. That said though, I would hate to think of such a large ungainly ship having to engage another submarine. And ultimately, one has to think of the crew that took her out on that final voyage. At one point, I did fall to the temptation to get snarky about "Surcouf", but we shouldn't forget that brave men manned this ship, and met their end when she was lost, men that the government in Vichy probably called traitors. She was a flawed ship, but she was fighting the good fight. That should count for something.
It would be interesting to see how Surcouf would perform on a war patrol in the Formosa Strait or off the Japanese home islands.
Yes, her long range and room for ample stores were tailor made for the Pacific. I imagine she would have been based in French Polynesia and fallen under the operational control of COMSUBSOWESTPAC in Australia, possibly refueling and resupplying there before going on patrol, the same way Pearl based boats used Midway. Also, her passenger compartment would have made her ideal for smuggling agents and supplies for guerillas into the Philippines. You could ditch the seaplane and use her hanger for even more supplies and use the boat to land both them and the agents
6:53 Somebody had obviously made a trip to the future. This design of the helicopter is about 50 years ahead of its time !
"Things to Come" (1936) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_to_Come
It's not a helicopter. Autogyros (where propulsion is due to the propeller, not the rotating 'wing' or rotor) were sort of common in the 30s, until a reliable method of actually powering and controlling the rotor was devised. Uncommon today, they live on as small 'gyrocopters'. One landed on the White House lawn a few years ago and caused a pretty big stink until it was established to not have been a threat.
@@jackdedert2945 But this one _is_ a helicopter, not an autogyro, as it has no propeller but a powered double rotor. It is a Dorand G20 Gyroplane.
i am just blow away there has not been more effort to find this remarkable sub
So if the original treaty was vague about submarines, my thought is to argue that any ship is technically a submersible -though only once.
I would argue abit further that as long as its shallow, any ship can be a submersible but only if you allow for long surfacing times ;P
@@Feiora And allow outside help for resurfacing.
At 7.01 an aircraft is shown and identified as a gryro. It's actually a helicopter, a Dorand G.20 Gyroplane. Both rotors were powered.
genuinely one of my favourite ships of the French Navy. I think in the future we could see a return off submarine cruisers
Don't hold your breath.
@@jamestheotherone742 i don't I I I don't have to it's a submarine
@@GI.Jared1984 haha. You would if it worked as well as Surcouf.
@@jamestheotherone742 it's not as bad as all that. it is not the actual submarine i'm talking about it is the concept a sub that is bigger than a attack sub but smaller than a ballistic sub something that has a good land attack capability as well as anti ship role
@@GI.Jared1984 That would be some of the subs that have been modified for SOCOM work.
Great work Sir thank you
Drachinfel , has anybody told you your voice sounds like a early 60’s cartoon character Mr Peabody from Peabody’s Improbable Adventures lol . Love your show ,keep up the great work !
Another imperfect example of ‘decision by committee ‘...
A great birthday present, a video on the silliest of submarines.
Naw, the British version of this was even more useless.
The Python reference was gold!
For the little history, Surcouf was a Corsaire of Napoléon the first. He was born in brittany but his name is norman and of scandinavian origin.
And his finest ship, Le Revenant, was said to be the fastest frigate in the early 19th century.
judges at british trial : "You French people fight for money. While we English fight for honor!"
Surcouf replied, "Everyone fights for what they lack."
Sounds like a job for Dr Ballard.
or R.V Petrel
Or James Cameron
It would be quite a find to know where she rests. I have to wonder if there is some back burner research going on. Maybe some amateur sleuths will locate the area the sub went down.
I fully understand how useless this submarine is….but holy shit it’s so cool!
My father saw this submarine come up the Thames River in Groton, CT. He said everyone stopped what they where doing and stared. It was huge and stunningly different than the boats he helped build. He worked at Electric Boat for the duration of the war. The French crew was hosted by local families while the boat was in for repairs. Now I start the rumors as they where relayed to me by my father years ago before he passed. The Surcouf took on fuel in Groton and went out on patrol. When they returned to refuel some did some calculating and got the idea that the boat used far more fuel than it could of burned for the time it was away. One or two US subs tailed the Surcouf when it went on patrol again and they caught them refueling a German sub. Torpedoes fired. That is how I remember him telling the story. Keep in mind these are shipyard rumors, not hard and fast facts.
nobody special Interesting conspiracy theory. 🤔
I clearly don't see how they could get into contact with german subs, nor how they could set up this kind of operation while being in allied territory. Also there was british officers in board, you're telling that out of the 130 men inside the submarine, not a single one would have inform higher ranks ?
@@Axel23410 Like I said, a shipyard rumor from 3/4 a century ago.
The MN Surcouf will still live on in the mobile game "Azur Lane" as an Elite class submarine
THIIIIIICCCCCC!!!
a submarine with a cruiser body...
3:00 Or similarly to Dutch build ORP Orzel & ORP Sęp
It being French, perhaps they read too much Jules Verne and decided to become Nautilus.
No, we are not hiding in a secret underwater base in the South Pacific waiting for the right time to strike - Prince Dakar, Captain of Surcotilus.
DeGaulle snapped to attention and farted in FDR's general direction.
why is the end of the video so funny to me xD
Good morning Drach!🌞
Submarine come cruiser come carrier. It's a one ship navy.
One theory is she was sunk by one of her crew who was a Vichy supporter. Though how you would prove that without any proof I don't know. And no one has put forward any evidence, such as one of the crew telling his loved ones what he intended, it will just remain a 'man in the pub' claim.
Big Blue another theory without any proof is that the whole crew was loyal to Vichy and while supplied by the allies at sea they were sinking allied merchants (I think I remember to have read that the reason for this theory were quite a number of unexplained losses when the Surcouf was in the certain area). I think, it’s rather far fetched but it could make a great movie
@@Trantor I don't think it'd be impossible, I'm sure its happened before...
@@Trantor Or given the known design flaws, maybe something catastrophic overwhelmed the sub as we do know there was a underwater explosion most likely the Surcouf imploding after sinking beyond her crush depth of 1600 feet
@@Knight6831 what’s the connection to my answer?
@@Trantor nothing but I'm pointing out something no-one considers
Thank you for sharing this piece of history. Well done Sir.
She went into the Bermuda Triangle, and is fighting zombie Nazis to this very day, hoping from wormhole to wormhole till she finds their base. - that's my head canon, anyway.
I'd pay to see that movie.
"Based on a true story".
Sounds great , please let me know if you flesh the story out.
That's nonsense
Exactly like the plot of an 80s TV series
I would love to see you do an episode on the interwar British 'K-Boats'... A submarine powered by STEAM! (and curiously armed somewhat similarly to the subject of this video.)
There's a piece on them in drachs "worst designs" or "engineering disasters" episode. 4th ship in the vid is k class subs.
Small arms engagement inside the sub?
That's what I always hated about The Hunt For Red October (a great movie otherwise!). It seems so pointless.
He can’t launch a missile. But he can blow one up.
"State to state? No papers?"
"No papers..."
@Ron Lewenberg "there" Can't anybody get it right just once?
I would have liked to have seen...Montana...
One ping only, please
Knew about a similar Japanese sub but never heard about this French sub till now. Ballard needs to get on this right away!!!
John Knapp
The Japanese one was actually saner. At least that one didn’t bother with big guns, just planes.