Yea but how do we tell the difference between apostolic authority ordained by God , and a power grab at the time so they didn't have to go back to hustling as fisherman or tax collecting. Cause surely the good life would be to sit back and grift like most pastors . Honestly curious!
What would be the evidence for that? Where do we see that they were attaining power or living the good life? The evidence I see, from Biblical and extra-biblical sources, are that they were poor, itinerant preachers who faced persecution and death not only from the Empire but also from their own people. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
@Pastor Marc what are the extra biblical sources for the apostolic authority? I'd like to read them. I just don't understand, if a book says something, we should just believe it without scrutiny. Makes no sense. The poverished and persecuted claim is contested in some books that I find compelling. Candida Moss writes one. You could prove it with extra biblical writings possibly but they need to be looked at for context as well. Not many people trust josephus for good reasons of him writing about himself. Comes off as an obvious turncoat and manipulator.
@@Chris3-po Sean McDowell did his PhD dissertation on the historical accuracy of the persecution and deaths of the Apostles. He does a very thorough analysis and does not always find in favor of typical church tradition on the matter. It was put into a book titled "The Fate of the Apostles". That would be a good starting point.
Yea but how do we tell the difference between apostolic authority ordained by God , and a power grab at the time so they didn't have to go back to hustling as fisherman or tax collecting. Cause surely the good life would be to sit back and grift like most pastors . Honestly curious!
And without any circular reasoning .
What would be the evidence for that? Where do we see that they were attaining power or living the good life?
The evidence I see, from Biblical and extra-biblical sources, are that they were poor, itinerant preachers who faced persecution and death not only from the Empire but also from their own people.
Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
@Pastor Marc what are the extra biblical sources for the apostolic authority? I'd like to read them. I just don't understand, if a book says something, we should just believe it without scrutiny. Makes no sense. The poverished and persecuted claim is contested in some books that I find compelling. Candida Moss writes one. You could prove it with extra biblical writings possibly but they need to be looked at for context as well. Not many people trust josephus for good reasons of him writing about himself. Comes off as an obvious turncoat and manipulator.
@@Chris3-po
Sean McDowell did his PhD dissertation on the historical accuracy of the persecution and deaths of the Apostles. He does a very thorough analysis and does not always find in favor of typical church tradition on the matter. It was put into a book titled "The Fate of the Apostles". That would be a good starting point.